How refreshing! Rational and knowledgeable. Thanks for the info. As an afterthought, I got my hands on a Skyllaney Bertele 50mm f/2.0 for my M9. Good color. Just a wee bit better than real but not obviously so. The colors are edible.
The new 50 is definitely sharper than the previous version. For commercial work, you must try the M 50 APO because you primarily shoot at f/5.6. And since you mentioned it, the new 35 is not as good as the previous 35, if you want a great 35 for commercial work, the 35 APO is the way to go. It is more but well worth it.
I probably wouldn’t disagree with anything you said - with that said you don’t have access to my bank account - and I promise you my banker has the final say on which lens is best for me 😂😂😞
You’re absolutely right. The new Summilux-M 50mm Close Focus (the 2022 onwards version) is optically indeed slightly different from its predecessor. The three elements in the front section are different shaped and of a different material. It isn’t a huge difference, but it is better suited to resolve the 60MP sensor in the M11. The misunderstanding comes, I guess, from the new 35mm Summilux-M (with Close Focus, inroduced in 2021). That lens is optically exactly the same as its predecessor.
…say John, I’m interested to know the dimensions of your studio since you mentioned using the 50mm had you shooting at your doors. Thanks John for info as this gives me an idea for space plans of my own. Tim
I would give the Voigtländer f/1.5 lenses a try before making any decisions. Their 35mm f/1.5 Nokton II, 50mm f/1.5 Nokton II and 75mm f/1.5 Nokton, all get fantastic reviews, and can be had for much less. Heck, one can have all of them, and the 50 APO-Lanthar as well. Nothing beats an APO lens unless one desires a faster aperture. I do get the GAS for Leica's latest, but Zeiss and Voigtländer, are as great of optical engineers. The reason why some Leica lenses might be marginally superior or different, is because they have a much bigger leeway of improving the lenses as they will demand higher prices with the slightest optical improvements. One would expect them to be outmatched, as this is what they have done from day one. It is logical to some extent, as such improvements gradually decrease, while prices steadily raise. That's just physics. Then there's the craftsmanship and logistics. I'm still not sure if that justifies 5-8x the price, but that's subjective. It's more a case of deep pockets. But people are still a bit blinded by brand and colour. That goes for anything. I love any camera brand, and I have many times considered Leica, as I enjoy the purest mechanics. Love the focus patch, while I don't care for the manual focus aids of autofocus cameras. I use Zeiss and Voigtländer lenses on Sony, but I don't enjoy the interface near as much. The main reason I don't buy a rangefinder, is because I don't want to be restricted to 28-135mm, or needing to add an electronic viewfinder to reach beyond. I would get in to that system for the rangefinder, but if I must use an electronic viewfinder half of the time, it's pointless. I use ultra-wide and super-tele all the time for architecture. I don't know. I consider going Fujifilm as a middleground between my Sony and Leica. Sorry for a mess of a message, Just dumped some impulsive thoughts. Anyway, it's fun following you along.
Don't get me wrong. Any piece of gear can be justified, and if you feel the desire, absolutely do get it. As of now, I just don't see the benefit over, say the Voigtländer 50mm f/1.5 Nokton II, or even that and the Voigtländer 50mn f/2 APO-Lanthar, interchangeably, depending on the task. The Leica will be sharper than the Voigtländer in the corners at wider apertures, but I bet that they are quite similiar in the center. I use the APO lenses on my Sony, but if I were to switch to Leica, I would probably get the f/1.5 Nokton lenses. They are super light as well. The 50mm f/1.5 is just 200 g, and 75mm f/1.5 is just 350 g. I would just keep the APOs, though, unless you want the faster aperture.
All fair and reasonable points. As far as the Voigtlander APOs (both 35 and 50) they are absolutely amazing lenses. Frankly I haven’t been happier. But the new 50 Summilux does have a bit more than an edge with this aperture range. I love Voigtlander and Zeiss glass, but their offerings aren’t at this level. Close, but just not there. Is it worth the extra $3500 for the Leica? In this case, the one lens I use more than any other to have this kind of image quality without compromise? For me it is. Now if I was on any other M body outside of the 11, that would be a different answer.
I get that you can justify it quite easily when it's what you do for a living. And if the feeling is, all power to you. I fail to understand what it does better than the CV APO lenses, though. It's not better corrected, and it's not sharper. The aperture is of course wider, the haptics and rendering are different. The aperture is the primarily factor. Can you elaborate?
How does this compare to the resolution of VM 35/50 apo. I don’t any commercial works and found VM 50 apo to be sharp enough on both Leica M10 and Sony A7RV (same 61mp as Leica M11) and VM is much cheaper. I honestly believe voigtlander should charge more for their apo lens to make sure people know it’s quality stuff.
The VM APOs are straight out amazing. Absolutely perfect in my opinion. With the Summilux I can get that Leica character at 1.4 and the annal perfection I want when I stop down to f/4. But I would put the VMs up against any lens today for sure.
@@kaskoPhoto got it! Yeah, my only complain about the VM apo len is it is too perfect at f/2 for film. It is great for landscape and architecture and probably commercial portraits in your case. It is good to know the Leica ASPH FLE lens is have some character at 1.4.
@@kaskoPhoto Yes there is a review hype that not always gives the same outcome than the experienced photographer's eye. I don't need to pixelpeep. I see and feel it in the files immediately when something significant has happened on gear innovation. You like it or you don't. All subjective ☺️
Hello, thanks for your great vidéos especially on the m11. I would like to know if you are satisfied with the quality of images taken at high iso, as from 4000 to 6400. Il made some indoors with the summilux 35 fle 1.4 previous version and the voiglander 75 1.5 and the noise was quite important and note so nice even with 36 megapixels. Do you have an opinion ? Thank you
To be honest this is both unimportant and important to me at the same time. I find the nose irritating if I compare it to that of the Hasselblad X1D but a non issue on its own merits. I shot film for the first 20 years in this business so for me 6400 iso is also amazing on the M11. Now my 23 year old daughter is so use to clean modern images, she hates the noise that comes off any of my cameras… but one thing I can honestly say is that when I shoot an amazing image that I love… noise isn’t ever a factor or concern- only the subject matter is at the forefront.
Hi, It is a bit surprising for me. Nn M10R I didn't find an improvement. I think that after using so long time Voidlanger 50 APO you found out that Leica lenses are the top. BR Lovrenc
😂 Well I would agree all but for one thing, I own the original 50 Summilux and on the M11 it is a clear difference. But yes, the Leica glass is special in either case.
I did not. I can say that the APO is a better technically perfect lens for sure - but stopped down to 5.6 or more and the results I believe are close. The APO is just pure perfection from f/2 .
Thanks for posting. In this video, it sounds like you handed over the images to the customer in digital format. Are there cases when you sell prints of your images (for example weddings, proms)? If so, do you print your images or do you use a third party printing company?
I see a noticeable resolution boost on II for my studio shoots. Most of the other characteristics are the same. Edges are also a noticeable improvement but a non-issue for me for what I shoot.
For wireless tethering I use Leica’s Foto app. But I load the images into the iPad with a standard USB-C card reader. Then it’s Lightroom CC and Photoshop on the iPad.
Hey John - I'm glad I don't live in Canada - your fashions are terrible - worse than here in Australia - ha ha. However, the images were great and look very professional. Also, you singlehandedly killed off the misconception that Leica are not real cameras or ever used by professionals (only for dentists, vets and surgeons)!! You are still in the minority though. Most pros I know shoot with Nikon, Sony or Canon.
Well first off… I pray that the brand doesn’t read that 😂 But I do have to say that many of the prints were created by children with disabilities (don’t instantly feel bad) and are carried in some of the most prestigious art museums around the world. And yes, although some of their coat structures are cringe worthy, the are designed for an older crowd and in that space do very well. Now that being said, yes, they are not the pinnacle of fashion. And thank you for my part in this. 😂😂
How refreshing! Rational and knowledgeable. Thanks for the info. As an afterthought, I got my hands on a Skyllaney Bertele 50mm f/2.0 for my M9. Good color. Just a wee bit better than real but not obviously so. The colors are edible.
It’s great finding a lens that works! They aren’t all perfect, but close works 99% of the time.
The new 50 is definitely sharper than the previous version. For commercial work, you must try the M 50 APO because you primarily shoot at f/5.6. And since you mentioned it, the new 35 is not as good as the previous 35, if you want a great 35 for commercial work, the 35 APO is the way to go. It is more but well worth it.
I probably wouldn’t disagree with anything you said - with that said you don’t have access to my bank account - and I promise you my banker has the final say on which lens is best for me 😂😂😞
the M rangefinder is never an accurate thing as far as accuracy is concerned, so….
You’re absolutely right. The new Summilux-M 50mm Close Focus (the 2022 onwards version) is optically indeed slightly different from its predecessor. The three elements in the front section are different shaped and of a different material. It isn’t a huge difference, but it is better suited to resolve the 60MP sensor in the M11. The misunderstanding comes, I guess, from the new 35mm Summilux-M (with Close Focus, inroduced in 2021). That lens is optically exactly the same as its predecessor.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees it 😂. It’s def better resolving then before.
…say John, I’m interested to know the dimensions of your studio since you mentioned using the 50mm had you shooting at your doors. Thanks John for info as this gives me an idea for space plans of my own. Tim
It’s approximately 20x25’
Thank you John
I would give the Voigtländer f/1.5 lenses a try before making any decisions. Their 35mm f/1.5 Nokton II, 50mm f/1.5 Nokton II and 75mm f/1.5 Nokton, all get fantastic reviews, and can be had for much less. Heck, one can have all of them, and the 50 APO-Lanthar as well. Nothing beats an APO lens unless one desires a faster aperture.
I do get the GAS for Leica's latest, but Zeiss and Voigtländer, are as great of optical engineers.
The reason why some Leica lenses might be marginally superior or different, is because they have a much bigger leeway of improving the lenses as they will demand higher prices with the slightest optical improvements. One would expect them to be outmatched, as this is what they have done from day one.
It is logical to some extent, as such improvements gradually decrease, while prices steadily raise. That's just physics. Then there's the craftsmanship and logistics. I'm still not sure if that justifies 5-8x the price, but that's subjective. It's more a case of deep pockets. But people are still a bit blinded by brand and colour. That goes for anything.
I love any camera brand, and I have many times considered Leica, as I enjoy the purest mechanics. Love the focus patch, while I don't care for the manual focus aids of autofocus cameras. I use Zeiss and Voigtländer lenses on Sony, but I don't enjoy the interface near as much.
The main reason I don't buy a rangefinder, is because I don't want to be restricted to 28-135mm, or needing to add an electronic viewfinder to reach beyond. I would get in to that system for the rangefinder, but if I must use an electronic viewfinder half of the time, it's pointless. I use ultra-wide and super-tele all the time for architecture.
I don't know. I consider going Fujifilm as a middleground between my Sony and Leica.
Sorry for a mess of a message, Just dumped some impulsive thoughts. Anyway, it's fun following you along.
Don't get me wrong.
Any piece of gear can be justified, and if you feel the desire, absolutely do get it.
As of now, I just don't see the benefit over, say the Voigtländer 50mm f/1.5 Nokton II, or even that and the Voigtländer 50mn f/2 APO-Lanthar, interchangeably, depending on the task.
The Leica will be sharper than the Voigtländer in the corners at wider apertures, but I bet that they are quite similiar in the center.
I use the APO lenses on my Sony, but if I were to switch to Leica, I would probably get the f/1.5 Nokton lenses. They are super light as well. The 50mm f/1.5 is just 200 g, and 75mm f/1.5 is just 350 g.
I would just keep the APOs, though, unless you want the faster aperture.
All fair and reasonable points. As far as the Voigtlander APOs (both 35 and 50) they are absolutely amazing lenses. Frankly I haven’t been happier. But the new 50 Summilux does have a bit more than an edge with this aperture range. I love Voigtlander and Zeiss glass, but their offerings aren’t at this level. Close, but just not there. Is it worth the extra $3500 for the Leica? In this case, the one lens I use more than any other to have this kind of image quality without compromise? For me it is. Now if I was on any other M body outside of the 11, that would be a different answer.
I get that you can justify it quite easily when it's what you do for a living. And if the feeling is, all power to you.
I fail to understand what it does better than the CV APO lenses, though. It's not better corrected, and it's not sharper. The aperture is of course wider, the haptics and rendering are different. The aperture is the primarily factor.
Can you elaborate?
I currently use the 35 and 50 APO lenses on my a7R IV. Love them, but I'm a bit burnt out with the interface of most autofocus cameras.
How does this compare to the resolution of VM 35/50 apo. I don’t any commercial works and found VM 50 apo to be sharp enough on both Leica M10 and Sony A7RV (same 61mp as Leica M11) and VM is much cheaper. I honestly believe voigtlander should charge more for their apo lens to make sure people know it’s quality stuff.
The VM APOs are straight out amazing. Absolutely perfect in my opinion. With the Summilux I can get that Leica character at 1.4 and the annal perfection I want when I stop down to f/4. But I would put the VMs up against any lens today for sure.
@@kaskoPhoto got it! Yeah, my only complain about the VM apo len is it is too perfect at f/2 for film. It is great for landscape and architecture and probably commercial portraits in your case. It is good to know the Leica ASPH FLE lens is have some character at 1.4.
Yes great lens. The new 35 has the same effect 😊
I don’t need to hear that! 😂
@@kaskoPhoto 💸😂
I use the new 50 lux on my m11 monochrom. It’s absolutely incredible.
@@Monochromatic77 I didn’t expect it from the reviews I saw. But I’m really happy with the improvements.
@@kaskoPhoto Yes there is a review hype that not always gives the same outcome than the experienced photographer's eye. I don't need to pixelpeep. I see and feel it in the files immediately when something significant has happened on gear innovation. You like it or you don't. All subjective ☺️
Hello, thanks for your great vidéos especially on the m11. I would like to know if you are satisfied with the quality of images taken at high iso, as from 4000 to 6400. Il made some indoors with the summilux 35 fle 1.4 previous version and the voiglander 75 1.5 and the noise was quite important and note so nice even with 36 megapixels. Do you have an opinion ? Thank you
To be honest this is both unimportant and important to me at the same time. I find the nose irritating if I compare it to that of the Hasselblad X1D but a non issue on its own merits. I shot film for the first 20 years in this business so for me 6400 iso is also amazing on the M11. Now my 23 year old daughter is so use to clean modern images, she hates the noise that comes off any of my cameras… but one thing I can honestly say is that when I shoot an amazing image that I love… noise isn’t ever a factor or concern- only the subject matter is at the forefront.
Sell the Voigtlander and buy the 35. I own both. Traded my 28 and 50 black chrome. I cover wider with 21 if need be.
Well it would take 8 Voigtlanders to cover 😂😂 but I agree.
What would make you reach for the APO Lanthar vs the Lux?
Commercial Clothing shoot where 3/4 to full length is required with f/2 - f/4 as a target fstop
Hi, It is a bit surprising for me. Nn M10R I didn't find an improvement. I think that after using so long time Voidlanger 50 APO you found out that Leica lenses are the top. BR Lovrenc
😂 Well I would agree all but for one thing, I own the original 50 Summilux and on the M11 it is a clear difference. But yes, the Leica glass is special in either case.
Did you directly compare it with your Voigtlander APO 50 as well?
I did not. I can say that the APO is a better technically perfect lens for sure - but stopped down to 5.6 or more and the results I believe are close. The APO is just pure perfection from f/2 .
Thanks for posting. In this video, it sounds like you handed over the images to the customer in digital format. Are there cases when you sell prints of your images (for example weddings, proms)? If so, do you print your images or do you use a third party printing company?
I do sell prints and I use a traditional lab and Silver halide prints
Hi in what way is the new summilux better? I have the version 1 and I am not interested in the v2 close focusing.
I see a noticeable resolution boost on II for my studio shoots. Most of the other characteristics are the same. Edges are also a noticeable improvement but a non-issue for me for what I shoot.
Hi great thank you!
John, what app are you using on iPad?
Appears to be LR Mobile but what’s capturing the images?
For wireless tethering I use Leica’s Foto app. But I load the images into the iPad with a standard USB-C card reader. Then it’s Lightroom CC and Photoshop on the iPad.
Wow! congrats to your new baby, I can fully understand you. I guess the only reason for Leica to update this lens was the 61MP sensor :) great photos
Thank you. It’s a gem
Hey John - I'm glad I don't live in Canada - your fashions are terrible - worse than here in Australia - ha ha. However, the images were great and look very professional. Also, you singlehandedly killed off the misconception that Leica are not real cameras or ever used by professionals (only for dentists, vets and surgeons)!! You are still in the minority though. Most pros I know shoot with Nikon, Sony or Canon.
Well first off… I pray that the brand doesn’t read that 😂 But I do have to say that many of the prints were created by children with disabilities (don’t instantly feel bad) and are carried in some of the most prestigious art museums around the world. And yes, although some of their coat structures are cringe worthy, the are designed for an older crowd and in that space do very well. Now that being said, yes, they are not the pinnacle of fashion. And thank you for my part in this. 😂😂