Really cool idea, thank you for the video! I was already very impressed by it when you touched on the topic in your Shilgengar deck tech (the video through which I discovered your channel!). I'm curious, have you tried it for three-color decks? I guess there are fewer off-color fetches. But is it too inconsistent beyond two colors? I'm currently theory-crafting an Esper deck and wondering if I could us it there, since black and blue are even worse at ramping than white (outside of black's rituals and mana doublers). Really liking the channel so far, keep it up! :)
It can work with more colors, but you'll really need to make sure you have enough fetchable targets to support the amount of fetching this strategy wants to do. It's generally much harder to make it budget the more colors you play since the budget friendly fetches only get basics.
Great coverage of an interesting topic. I have a deck with a full recur lands ramp package, and it is amazing. Cosmic Intervention in particular is an all-star. Lotus Vale and Lotus Field will also work with these strategies, and allow you to more consistently turn on catch-up ramp.
Short answer.... white. Long answer..... technically white but be prepared to pay through the nose to get somewhere in the ballpark of what green can do with a budget of "a shoestring and a half eaten sandwich". Equipment is a great option that is well supported in white and isn't QUITE as expensive. Sword of the Animist, Bitterthorn, Staff of Titania, Dowsing Dagger, etc. There's a few options on the low end such as Sun Titan and Redemption Choir but..... MOST of the cards that will let you get the really explosive ramp in white will run between $5 and $25 a piece.
Hmm, interesting thoughts. I've found the brought back style effects to be extremely budget friendly when I brew with. Most of the cards we highlight in this video are less than $2. It's really just the 5 "pay 1 life" fetchlands and Crucible of Worlds that are the less budget options, but you don't need them to make this ramp package work. I feel like the Equipment direction is generally more expensive on average (both $ and mana) and much slower/dependent on having non summoning sick creatures to get anything. What are some of the non-budget explosive white ramp cards you're talking about?
@@sashajelten Mostly those. Land Tax is still quite expensive (Smothering Tithe and Archaeomancer's Map weren't mentioned but are sitting at around $20 and $8 respectively) and Command Beacon is still up there at $6. Most of the "Brought Back" effects are fairly budget (with the exception of Cosmic Intervention at around $6) but most of the lands that these effects go REALLY nuts with (Anything that has you sac lands and produces multiple mana such as Lotus Vale, Lotus Field, and Scorched Ruins) range from somewhat expensive to VERY expensive. That said, even the budget fetches such as Evolving Wilds and Myriad Landscape can still produce some.... fairly big turns with the Brought Back effects. Most of the equipment that helps with this tends to fall somewhere in the middle of these. If you REALLY want to outdo green you'll need the expensive stuff... but you can still get a respectable 2nd place with the less expensive stuff.
@@zackkelley2940 Ya, we were trying to focus this video on the brought back effects. I personally don't love Lotus lands because they're pretty bad if you don't use a brought back effect (or untap land effects) and they don't ramp any faster than having a couple of fetches when you do. The fetches also allow you to save your brought back style effects to respond to other permanents being removed to double up on value and/or negate board wipe effects. Obviously "Brought Back" itself only returns 2 things, but hopefully you understand why being able to use these effects instant speed or EOT to ramp is much much better. My main PSA is I think a lot of people under explore the power of loading up on Brought Back effects in mono-white. I'll often out ramp the green decks by turn 4/5 in my mono white decks that utilize this package while spending very few deck slots to do it. I think this strategy will only get better over time as they print more cards with similar effects. My only worry is if they decide that being able to ramp like this is a color pie break and add "non-land permanent" to some of these effects in the future. My only point is the budget version of this mono-white ramp is still very explosive and underrated imo, but you're right, green is definitely the main ramp color.
hey could you explain more on the second time you crack the fetch on cosmic intervention? is it like in response to the trigger on your endstep you crack the land a second time? i get being able to do it the 1st and 3rd time but not the second
Cosmic Intervention will bring back cards at the beginning of the next endstep after they get exiled, but it's exile effect is still active until the turn actually ends. So if you cast the Cosmic Intervention anytime before an endstep, any fetch lands you sacrifice will be exiled and will return at the begining of the endstep that turn. While still in the endstep after the fetch lands come back, you can sacrifice them again and since it's still the same turn, Cosmic Intervention will exile them to then return at the beginning of the next endstep (which will be the beginning of the next players endstep), at which point you could sacrifice them for the 3rd time, but cosmic interventions effect is no longer active because it is not the turn you cast it anymore, so they'd finally go to the graveyard. The key to this is sacrificing the fetch lands a second time in the window of time between when the "beginning of endstep" effects resolve and the turn actually passes to the next player. Hopefully that helps. It is a bit tricky, but once you understand how the difference phases of a turn work, you can find all sorts of cool interactions like this. :)
i think Commander is all about finding ways like this to overcome the weakness of various colors
I love hearing "I didn't know (whatever color) could do that" when playing my brews
Really cool idea, thank you for the video! I was already very impressed by it when you touched on the topic in your Shilgengar deck tech (the video through which I discovered your channel!).
I'm curious, have you tried it for three-color decks? I guess there are fewer off-color fetches. But is it too inconsistent beyond two colors? I'm currently theory-crafting an Esper deck and wondering if I could us it there, since black and blue are even worse at ramping than white (outside of black's rituals and mana doublers).
Really liking the channel so far, keep it up! :)
It can work with more colors, but you'll really need to make sure you have enough fetchable targets to support the amount of fetching this strategy wants to do. It's generally much harder to make it budget the more colors you play since the budget friendly fetches only get basics.
@@sashajelten awesome, thanks for the tip!
Awesome video. I think you have convinced me to build a mono white commander deck.
Great coverage of an interesting topic. I have a deck with a full recur lands ramp package, and it is amazing. Cosmic Intervention in particular is an all-star. Lotus Vale and Lotus Field will also work with these strategies, and allow you to more consistently turn on catch-up ramp.
Thank you! Good stuff. Don't sleep on the white ramp package!
Use lands like lotus field or lotus vale plus all the caught up ramp
Scorched Ruin is another good one for this.
Short answer.... white.
Long answer..... technically white but be prepared to pay through the nose to get somewhere in the ballpark of what green can do with a budget of "a shoestring and a half eaten sandwich".
Equipment is a great option that is well supported in white and isn't QUITE as expensive.
Sword of the Animist, Bitterthorn, Staff of Titania, Dowsing Dagger, etc.
There's a few options on the low end such as Sun Titan and Redemption Choir but.....
MOST of the cards that will let you get the really explosive ramp in white will run between $5 and $25 a piece.
Hmm, interesting thoughts. I've found the brought back style effects to be extremely budget friendly when I brew with. Most of the cards we highlight in this video are less than $2. It's really just the 5 "pay 1 life" fetchlands and Crucible of Worlds that are the less budget options, but you don't need them to make this ramp package work. I feel like the Equipment direction is generally more expensive on average (both $ and mana) and much slower/dependent on having non summoning sick creatures to get anything. What are some of the non-budget explosive white ramp cards you're talking about?
@@sashajelten Mostly those. Land Tax is still quite expensive (Smothering Tithe and Archaeomancer's Map weren't mentioned but are sitting at around $20 and $8 respectively) and Command Beacon is still up there at $6.
Most of the "Brought Back" effects are fairly budget (with the exception of Cosmic Intervention at around $6) but most of the lands that these effects go REALLY nuts with (Anything that has you sac lands and produces multiple mana such as Lotus Vale, Lotus Field, and Scorched Ruins) range from somewhat expensive to VERY expensive.
That said, even the budget fetches such as Evolving Wilds and Myriad Landscape can still produce some.... fairly big turns with the Brought Back effects.
Most of the equipment that helps with this tends to fall somewhere in the middle of these.
If you REALLY want to outdo green you'll need the expensive stuff... but you can still get a respectable 2nd place with the less expensive stuff.
@@zackkelley2940 Ya, we were trying to focus this video on the brought back effects.
I personally don't love Lotus lands because they're pretty bad if you don't use a brought back effect (or untap land effects) and they don't ramp any faster than having a couple of fetches when you do. The fetches also allow you to save your brought back style effects to respond to other permanents being removed to double up on value and/or negate board wipe effects. Obviously "Brought Back" itself only returns 2 things, but hopefully you understand why being able to use these effects instant speed or EOT to ramp is much much better.
My main PSA is I think a lot of people under explore the power of loading up on Brought Back effects in mono-white. I'll often out ramp the green decks by turn 4/5 in my mono white decks that utilize this package while spending very few deck slots to do it.
I think this strategy will only get better over time as they print more cards with similar effects. My only worry is if they decide that being able to ramp like this is a color pie break and add "non-land permanent" to some of these effects in the future.
My only point is the budget version of this mono-white ramp is still very explosive and underrated imo, but you're right, green is definitely the main ramp color.
You’re actually are allowed to play yavimaya and urborg in mono white! Their color identity is colorless since they’re lands
hey could you explain more on the second time you crack the fetch on cosmic intervention? is it like in response to the trigger on your endstep you crack the land a second time? i get being able to do it the 1st and 3rd time but not the second
Cosmic Intervention will bring back cards at the beginning of the next endstep after they get exiled, but it's exile effect is still active until the turn actually ends. So if you cast the Cosmic Intervention anytime before an endstep, any fetch lands you sacrifice will be exiled and will return at the begining of the endstep that turn. While still in the endstep after the fetch lands come back, you can sacrifice them again and since it's still the same turn, Cosmic Intervention will exile them to then return at the beginning of the next endstep (which will be the beginning of the next players endstep), at which point you could sacrifice them for the 3rd time, but cosmic interventions effect is no longer active because it is not the turn you cast it anymore, so they'd finally go to the graveyard.
The key to this is sacrificing the fetch lands a second time in the window of time between when the "beginning of endstep" effects resolve and the turn actually passes to the next player.
Hopefully that helps. It is a bit tricky, but once you understand how the difference phases of a turn work, you can find all sorts of cool interactions like this. :)
First LIKE baby!
Play any mono white commanders?
@@nicplzPhelia