Metaphor is exciting to me because even in the realm of fantasy, it feels so original. It would've been so easy to put something out that looked like any other fantasy JRPG in the last 15 years, but Metaphor's premise combined with the hybrid Fantasy/1970s aesthetic really makes it feel like the team is making whatever the hell they really want to make.
"it feels so original" no, it feels so persona5-reskinned, from the UI to sfx, even the PS3 graphics quality lmao, and they're gonna damn reuse it for persona 6, I have no hope
The 6th gen era is often romanticized as this era of wild west game development. Expertise in 3d game design matched with developers experimenting with new gameplay systems at a time where you had to stand out in a market saturated by middle market one offs, but the reality is that Atlus' couldn't have brought this sensibility into later generations. You noted that pumping out 7 games is almost assembly line level work but game budgets and audience expectation have grown to the point where you can't make a grey looking jrpg with no voice acting and have it sell 200-300k units anymore, they'd be out of business. It is good that Atlus is taking somewhat of a risk with Metaphor cause it feels like a statement, that they feel safe in doing a new IP and putting talent behind it even at a time when we would expect their publishers and parent company to be breathing down their neck, Atlus still feels like a studio with something to say.
my argument here would be that record setting profits from the studio may not enable 6th gen level output but it should enable something more than what we are getting. Especially in the context of game dev costs going down (adjusted for inflation) from the 7th gen AND the switch, a system where lower fidelity games thrive, is about to become the best selling console ever.
@@fortayee Problem with record setting profits is that its often an incentive to not do something different and given that SMT V vanilla was a switch exclusive and didn't take advantage of the ability to work with a lower fidelity (it runs like dogshit) then I would be skeptical that publishers have really caught up to the appeal of the switch. Its not an arguement, I was agreeing that Metaphor gives me a bit of hope.
@@fortayeeit’s interesting everyone always blames atlus but never thinks Sega is the one actually pushing the agenda. We have to remember they are no longer independent
@@Solavation What agenda Sega pushing? If that's the case, Atlus would've bring out all the classics into modern platform but clearly that's not the case at all.
@@zeroskaterz92 They probably are, remember that takes time to do. Capcom recently just did it with their fighting games collections just this year. Konami just released the castlevania DS collection just 2 days ago. It takes time, so maybe we just gotta wait a little bit. SMT3 did get basically a remake as well of sorts.
It’s super ironic you chastise them for making the same games and running out of ideas, then jump to praising Metaphor; which is quite literally all the same games and ideas put into one atlus cliche of a game.
Music in order of appearance: SMT IV - Traffic (Arcade Town) Danger by Etro SMT IV - Main Theme SMT IV - Homesickness Metaphor - Battle Theme Strange Journey - A Land Controlling Roads was a joy to work on, can't believe the way this is hitting the algo right now LOL
riding on a sword to slide (fly) is actually pretty popular in Chinese classical fantasy. It is quite similar to riding on a broomstick to fly in Western fantasy.
I need them to get weird after metaphor. I don't mind that they're banger hunting with persona but I need an SMT spin off that's off the rails and maybe something non RPG like catherine
It's pretty funny how MegaTen started as an adaptation of a series of novels, with said novels pivoting to take inspiration from SMT later on (just look up the plots of the New Digital Devil Story books, they sound straight out of Saturn/PS1 era MegaTen). The biggest reason I'm excited for Metaphor is it seems like this is the game Atlus has actually wanted to make for years. They're finally free of the Tokyo setting, they aren't limited by real world mythologies, and while there's social aspects, they make sense in the context of the story and don't seem like they're there just to appeal to the visual novel crowd. Couple that with a few small changes like the protagonist not being fully silent (that's a huge deal for me as someone who's a big fan of the Trails series) and I genuinely haven't been this excited for an Atlus game since the re-reveal of SMT V. Of course, I then played Vanilla V and was properly whelmed, but Vengeance has been so good that it's renewed my faith, and I'm properly hyped again.
Here is also one thing i like, they didnt changed the engine once, unlike other studios they started with the same persona 5 engine and continued to build it upon it
Im excited for metaphor and to see what they do with the next entry in persona. Atlus has so many options for the next step, so many old series they can continue or soft reboot. I think they can do it, assuming their greed doesn't ruin then first
Look I can agree that after persona 5, they started milking it's formula like crazy and put it on their other franchises, but I'm sorry, when it came out who the heck said "Oh just another persona 4 clone, same old same old 😅"
@@lunaromancia Oddly enough P5's tone felt like P4 more than P4 itself most of the time anyway. I don't think P5 ever had a scene remotely close to Namatame's conclusion lol
I don't really follow the reasoning of Persona 5 being another Persona 4. I think they're very much their own things with their own commentary on society and the human condition. I suppose they do hold the same primary gameplay loop but that's not a bad thing. Pretty much all sequels share primary gameplay loops. For example, all the doom games share the same gameplay of running around & shooting demons while collecting keycards but their not lesser for it.
i think youre being a bit general though i do understand. My counter example would be persona itself. 1,2, and 3 all play entirely different. final fantasy, zelda every so often. Many franchises do this
@@fortayeedragon quest doesn’t. Final fantasy doesn’t even have an identity anymore. Persona is sticking to its jrpg roots. Games dnt need to reinvent the wheel every new game
@@beck_gaming1243 p4 is when they shifted to all of a character's/part member's "char development" into SL/confidants and having your party's life revolve around the MC (which P5 does too). thats kind of the only thing i can really point to for fortayee saying "p5 is another p4" because even though i like all of the persona and SMT games that aspect of p4 and p5 are very disappointing which i hope they change in p6. Introduce a character, speedrun their "character arc" over that dungeon, beat their boss then riffing on 1 or 2 their quirks for the rest of the game kinda flanderizing them in-story(P3Reload is guilty of doing this to Akihiko with the whole protein thing in the link eps)
@@beck_gaming1243 P3's problem is really bad pacing, tartarus, and backloading the story and character development near the end but it does have proper in-story character development(Junpei's B-plot with Chidori, Mitsuru learning to trust others way later in the game after a certain death, ken+aki+shinji b-plot, yukari and aigis finding purpose, etc). also all of these happen independent of MC's involvement(other chars have lives outside of MC) and happen gradually throughout the story. p4 and p5 finish their characters' entire arcs(in-story) within the boss/dungeon they're introduced. Chie drops a huge bombshell that she's got a inferiority complex going on with Yukiko in the beginning but this is never addressed again in the story after saving Yukiko/boss fight. she develops in her SL but this is not translated in-story she's still the goofy f-steak bestie I'm not trying to dog any of these games i love them all, but im just making sense of/interpreting what this video means by p5 being another p4. its fine to iterate on a proven formula but imo p4 and p5 take a step back specifically with how they handled character development(but balance that out with gameplay, plot structure/pacing, SL improvement)
Going to take a gander that one of the points discussed here is that we have no idea what Atlus is releasing after Metaphor. To which I say… yeah kinda has me interested. But then again it may give me the opportunity to cover other games from their catalog while waiting for what’s new
Idk if there are other artists represented as well but I really like the use of heironymous bosch's (im sure thats spelled wrong) artwork to give the game a strange yet familiar feel. I instantly clocked the monster thats shaped like an egg with the heart hat as bosch and its such a fun point of inspiration
I'm excited about Metaphor but I definitely have some concerns based on the gameplay/trailers we've seen to date. Basically to me it looks like the game is "Fantasy Persona" (calendar system with limited number of actions per day, archetypes being a stand in for Personas, etc). I'm afraid that the social commentary will be too on-the-nose as well. Given the long development cycle I have to wonder if this is the vision the team always had or if there was pressure from higher-ups to make it closer to Persona. I'd love to be proven wrong though of course and for the game to carve out it's own identity.
I just got into the world of Atlus so I have tons to catch up on but from what I see they give up quickly if something fails that isn't Persona or now SMT. Hope Metaphor does well ❤️
as someone who's gotten into SMT and Atlus broadly more recently, it's been an interesting world to step into. The fire emblem fandom prepared me well I think
great video... really motivating me to finish the atlus titles i haven't started/committed myself to yet, especially SMT IV. haven't been into megaten for as long as you, but as someone who's been slowly working my way back through most of the catalogue for a while now, i very much agree with your overall points. always love when people acknowledge just how strong their run was during the sixth gen. generational stuff.
I might be a minority here but I was more excited when re-fantasy was announced and the concept art started showing. Now it just looks like persona but medieval with a strange journey soundtrack. Sure it’s probably going to be good but I would have preferred something more akin to digital devil saga in terms of art, themes and sound.
I've never played any other Megaten game outside of the Persona trilogy, but the first time I saw Metaphor it got me interested and the trailers make it seem so good. If I end up liking this game I'm TOTALLY gonna start playing other Megaten games.
I'm so hyped for Metaphor, probably my most awaited game in 2024. I just hope that the performance is good, i saw some gameplay of Gamescom and the loading times are laggy
I'm also excited for metaphor. Though with the amount of things their showcasing, I'm staying off trailers and such. My hope is we can get a really cool game to cap off the end of the year.
a friend of mine expressed his concerns about metaphor's very overdone political character tropes. it's something i'm probably going to be wary of as i'm playing now that i've noticed, but i'm still very interested in the game's setting and concept.
@@ironrex6979 my friend's exact words: "... could we PLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASE STOP doing fantasy settings where it's 'oppressive theocratic vs charismatic young violent warmonger who wants to instill a meritocracy'?"
@@bubbletea_ reading that actually got a laugh out of me and I believe you. Thank you for sharing, this could be interesting depending on how it is handled! I do agree it is a bit over done 😅
I think the creatives within Atlus have been giving certain... signs that go kind of deep into spoiler territory... Consider that, in Persona 5, the Velvet room has been captured by Yaldabaoth. And in SMT 5, Lucifer has been unable to escape the mandala system he despises, despite achieving transcendent power. To put it another way, the creators are creatives who are worried about "selling out". Rather than making games because they have something to say, they're pressured to make games in order to make money for the company and its shareholders. Anyway, great stuff, you've earned a sub.
I agree, Atlus is still a studio filled with phenomenal creative artists. SMTV is proof of this. I hope Metaphor continues this I am a bit disappointed in what has been shown gameplay wise but art and story it’s doing a phenomenal job.
5:31 I appreciate that you noticed this about P5. There's entire subtext they hastily scrapped, giving the flimsiest excuse for the change, when really they just wanted something safer and more marketable. It's no coincidence that P5 had the most promotional crossovers of any Atlus game, even before it went multiplat. I'm not getting my hopes up for Metaphor just yet. I've got mixed feelings about it looking to be a culmination of every popular design choice they've made over the past decade. And there's definitely something to be said about the loss of craftsmanship. It's starting to feel like we're falling into a Planet of the Apes style dystopia, where the most vocal population doesn't care about the decline in artistic quality, because their tastes can't even perceive the difference.
Thanks for sharing them! I think it perfectly captures what I and many other Atlus fans have been feeling for the past few years. Hopefully they bring back the magic they once had with Metaphor. Going by the trailers and dev interviews, Metaphor seems to be the type of game we've been hoping for from Atlus for a very long time now. 😊
Sometime I wish I coukd have been born 10 years earlier so I could have been old enough to want to play most of the ps2 smt games. Also stuff like rule of rose, kuon, project zero/fatal frame, etc.
I think you highly under valued a lot of games by just calling this another something else but that’s just me. I think atlus has been doing great as persona 4 is my favorite game of all time and smt 5 is great
@@fortayee maybe with P4, but i'd hardly call SMTV playing it safe considering it's change to semi-open world and on screen demons and all those things entail
@@fortayeeit's not playing it safe at all what they do is called smart business strategy where they don't waste money developing brand new engine or branches of existing engines on every new title in favor of reusing what they already have and making some tweaks here and there. What this means is effectively that the next Persona title will be using the P3Reload engine and core systems and you should expect that game to be incredibly similar to p3r. Nocturne and DDS1 & 2 are essentially the exact same game with minor systems differences but they're both fantastic in their own ways at what they do.
@@user-zl1vf4me1psoul hackers 2 is a good game, the issue with it is that it's a numbered sequel to a game that came out nearly 30 years prior on the saturn exclusively in japan and also in limited quantities on the 3DS exclusively in the west.
The game really has to be good, like atlus has been in a state of "i want to do this, but the new people can't or don't know how to do it" like sh2 and tactica were bad (or mid if you like). Even p3r was just barely an upgrade of fes (yeah yeah... new engine and theurgies but everything else the same or even less than fes, remember how they kept saying at first the answer wasnt on the plan??). They just included idk 30-1hr of new dialogue/scenes? No night or vacation s.links level ups, no multiple weapons, no s.link skills, just a new engine...
I got recommended this video as an Atlus fan. Overall I believe we agree with most points in the video. Since I want Atlus to stay creative. The thing is I believe they still are. I was very excited for Metaphor when it was first announced. Once it was re-revealed years later I was a bit disappointed however Atlus has practically won me over at this point. I believe the problem with Metaphor is people are disappointed with the derivative gameplay (calendar system and combat) and the Protagonist (NotP3MC) and Strohl’s (NotYu) designs. To be fair I still have issues with the later (NotYu). That is why people believe it’s persona x fantasy. With that out of the way Atlus has shown some phenomenal stuff ranging from art direction, guest artists, taking inspiration from Hieronymus Botch, gameplay mechanics (world and combat), the other party members, story, world, and music. There’s also the fact I trust Hashino, Soejima, and Meguro. I will go to the makai for them. They are seals of quality. I believe Atlus might have tripped over a bit during the 3DS era (SMTIV overall lack of polish and SMTIV FINAL the script/story) but I firmly believe they have been getting their game back. Persona 5, SMTV, and Vengeance are proof of that. While SH2 was excellent but I believe the oversimplified barebones gameplay and dlc was its downfall. While P3R is great but FES is all in one disk near perfection. I am with you fully I do hope P6 changes the formula gameplay wise up and as for SMTVI I trust in Atlus. I believe we agree in much more than we disagree. Blessings to you friend.
I'm worried that they will consider more traditional style dungeon crawling non-profitable. I'm not really a fan of the strong VN elements like social links or even the writing in Persona games, and the writing is too sus is, like putting a colorful facade over outdated bias, abuse, and for some reason students and teachers trying to hook up all the time.
I've been an atlus fan and tbh after they exited the 3ds era of stuff until it's 8/9th generation of console endeavors I just haven't felt like any sort of sauce or creativity like they used too. Smt5 felt antiquated SH2 just didn't keep me engaged and p3r felt like they needed to create something in between big projects. I'm praying metaphor will be the reinvention the company needs but I don't see myself purchasing it without test running it on Games pass 💀. Banger video btw
So basically this game is based on Utopia by Sir Thomas More. Interesting to see a new game based on books, it’s been too long, but not so sure socialism with no plot makes for good source material
That connection hadn't even occurred to me! I thought the name was a reference to the idea of cultural mores (social norms), but a connection to Utopia is *very* interesting, and I'd love to see analysis comparing More's satirical critique of his island nation with that of Japan's modern creatives.
Oh hi! I doubt you remember me but I started reading Utopia. I can safely say it is not socialist whatsoever and I am confused why do you refer to it that way? Even the writer St. Thomas More, who is a Catholic Saint who became a martyr, wrote a warning that only anyone foolish enough to believe this book a guide will lead to their destruction. He intended it as a book for critical thought. If Metaphor has this much satire, creativity, wit, symbolism, and paradoxes then I’m sooo going to love it!
@@ironrex6979 Nah I remember it was only like 5 days ago lol. Every synopsis I read online pointed to it being the spawn of socialism but maybe that’s not true idk. Honestly from what I’ve seen so far I don’t think this game is for me, but I hope I’m wrong and you really enjoy it
that quick lil zinger you had at the end there about liking the numbers go up cuz youre an atlus fan was like rly effortlessly cool and honest. i cant NOT get behind talk like this
Honestly with all of the 90's Nostalgia stuff that's popular now I would collapse under the sheer weight of joy if Atlus were to tap into that creative well they had in the fifth generation. There's something about Devil Summoner and MiP (P1) that just gives them this dreamlike otherworldly quality. I would love nothing more than to see them explore more of that deeper esotericism they used to! Psychadelic backgrounds unparalleled Ambience... They have all of the ingredients but ignore the recipe... As a long time fan, Vengeance gave me a lot of hope though!
I just listened to the battle theme for Metaphor for the first time and not sure what to think of it, it's like the gun barrel of battle combined with drunk monk singing lmao.
knowing that the lyrics aren't just gibberish and actual lyrics written in Esperanto made it way more digestible for me. I'm fully on board with the direction of the soundtrack now.
@@arvox1417 Oh nice their using an actual language. Kind of reminds me of how they had a constructed language of some kind in Panzer Dragoon Saga to make the world more unique.
i'll be honest, I was very excited before we got to see more of the game. But now re fanzio looks like persona 5 but fantasy steampunk. Have you seen the gameplay stuff? almost everything came right out of p5, there's passage of time system where you mainly interact with ppl to pass that time and progress what are basically social links. There's like literal personas that every playable character has. The enemies are almost exactly what you would expect to see in p5, the menus in general and even the battle and end of battle transitions feel almost 1 to 1 from most recent persona games. I like persona 5 but I played it twice, seeing as this is neither SMT nor Persona I expected something different. Look i'm sure the game is gonna be pretty good and ppl will love it in general but uhhh I really don't feel much from it anymore. I do love the soundtrack already tho.
Dude you could just *only * talk about Atlus! This was great. I disagreed with a lot of your talking points but enjoyed the video nonetheless. Great content!
I've still only played the modern Persona games when it comes to Atlus, yet I agree with the sentiment of P5 being just a 2nd pass at a P3 remake. It's their most succesful game for a reason tho: It achieved the most streamlined and addicting version of P3's gameplay loop, even if it was at the cost of difficulty and thematic depth. That being said, after watching this video, I still don't understand why you're excited for Metaphor lol. You ask, "what other games look like this?" and so far, it just looks like P5 in a Final Fantasy setting. I don't see that as a bad thing--But to me, the main appeal of Metaphor so far is the **slightly** different take on Persona gameplay elements and not so much the narrative and setting themselves. I'm sure it will be a good and fun game, but judging by the lofty and flowery language of this video, you seem to be setting your expectations way too high. I don't think this is the experimental-creative ressurgence you're making it out to be.
You've played the demo? I've been trying to compare it to something since I've played it, and I barely can't compare it to no other game, yes it has some persona aspects to it, but the story, art style, vibes, world building is on something I've rarely seen before, it's very unique in its own right and just playing the demo, it dumps on persona 5 already. Get that high school drama wannabe Yu yu hakasho B's out of here kid, persona 3 reload creams persona 5 as well, miodocre ass highschool sim with too much irrelevant text based dung plot.
I mean a lot of ideas from Megami Tensei particularly the post-apocalypse ones come from manga like Devilman (SMT If's the closest they've referenced), Fist of the North Star, and Akira, books like Demon City Shinjuku, and movies like Terminator and Mad Max that were popular during the 70s/80s. Still a bunch of Japanese works do take influence from Devilman so not surprised.
What Atlus need is more adult themed games like Catherine. I'm SO SICK TO MY STOMACH of having high schoolers as protagonist I want a game being set with ADULTS being the protagonist. I don't want high schoolers, i don't want the chosen one teenager who is there to save the world. I want to be adult being facing adults problem like maintaining relationship, loneliness,work culture,self maintained well being, expectations of family members. I want Atlus to make characters that deal with Adults topic from an adult point of view and mindset. That's what Atlus is lacking right now. Maturity on their games you can only do the same damn High Schooler setting that many times. I'm not hype for Metaphor. I really don't care about, but i give them credit for creating a new IP because man it feels like for the last almost 10 years all they have been doing is Shin Megami Tensei related games with the random 0 marketing in between game that they tried to push as quickly it was possible so nobody notice is from Atlus. If for Persona 6 they are going with yet another High School setting i won't be playing it.
Atlus would struggle to go back to their roots due to the new standard that is expected from their games. Much like From Software's titles being falsely viewed by the general public as absurdly difficult with convoluted lore, Atlus now has a reputation for stunning, flashy UI and character design with expressive music. SMTV, regardless of your opinion on it, proves that it's a challenge for Atlus to mix the image of their newer games with the grungy, off-putting vibe of what came before. I'm still looking forward to Metaphor, but more than that, I'm awaiting what Atlus will do after its inevitable commercial success, and if they will put their foot down on which style they prefer to pursue. Keep in mind, Atlus is all but AAA now. The 6th Generation, where teams could be split up to work on various different projects, has been traded out in favour of focusing on one or two big games. Unfortunately, if you don't like that game, then you'll have to wait a few years before something you _might_ like comes along.
I agree Atlus made a lot of super creative and thought provoking titles all the way up to 2013 when Sega bought them but there's a reason why Sega bought them, they were bankrupt. Unfortunately you need to balance artistic expression with the realities of business if you want to continue operating at a professional level and I'd say they've actually done a really good job of doing that over the last decade. They've had to make some compromises but overall they're still one of the most interesting AAA developers around. It's become cool to hate on Persona 5 because it's so popular but it is widely regarded as one of the best games ever made and is by far the best selling entry in the Megami Tensei franchise and I'd argue it still has plenty to say! SMT V got a lot better with the Vengeance update and the gameplay loop is so fun and addictive and Metaphor looks really intriguing especially by 2024 AAA video game standards!
@@fortayee Yeah that's true. Still Atlus wouldn't exist anymore if Sega hadn't acquired them and their game sales have definitely gone up since being bought out so I'll take them being in a much healthier financial state with slightly less out there titles than not being around at all.
good video oomf. atlus is honestly kind of an exhausting company to follow but i've been stuck here thinking and talking about them for 11 years so that's still indicative of something. refantazio's dual-ended fantasy setup makes me hopeful that it'll really feel introspective of our place in the world in the way that vanilla V really failed at.
I'm a huge fan of Atlus also, but I will admit that I haven't played many of their games...I've played all the Persona games, beat Nocturne years ago, beat Catherine, and I own Devil Survivor, but I really want to get into more of Atlus's games. I especially wanna play SMT 4 because I've heard so many good things about it. I appreciate your level-headed approach in this video, and it was so interesting to watch and learn about the history of Atlus
While I'm very excited about Metaphor part of me is little let down that this game looks like Persona + SMT with some added action elements. I kinda wished for something comepletly original ever since they annouced this game as Project Fantasy and while setting,music and story(so far) doesn't disappoint the combat at it's core is drawn from Persona(archetypes, party members, "social links" etc.) with added elements from SMT(press turn). You could make argument that Meta's combat might be pinnacle of Atlus' combat in SMT series but it's hard to tell without experiencing it firsthand. Let's hope there will be more to the combat or if the story with gorgeous visuals will carry the whole game. Also I wonder how subsequent re-release it's gonna be received and if expectation of potential re-relase won't hurt sales. I doubt it will but I've seen big enough discourse online about it which to me seems like we're closing in on boiling point regerding Atlus' re-releases.
I agree, I wasn't a fan of SMT IV A, SMT V, or Soul Hackers 2. While I liked Devil Survivor 2, it didn’t capture the magic of the first one. They all seem to lack that niche, gritty, unique feel. I'm not sold on Metaphor yet, but the premise and style look cool. Great video!
I remember the first time I beat Persona 5 and I felt disappointed, because it didn't change my life like other Atlus games. But I still played it again, all 100 hours of it and I will play Royal soon. There is nothing like an Atlus game, even if you don't like that particular one. And, sincerely, I can't say I dislike any of these games. Persona 3 Reload, Persona 5 Royal and SMT V Vengence are still so much better games that everything else in the market in many aspects that I have problems trying to be hard on them. I love those games and I like seeing modern iterations of classic ideas, like SMT V did with Nocturne's ideas or Persona 5 did with 4's. I am not truly that worried about Atlus. Experimentation with high budgets leeds to risks and I never felt that Atlus wasn't taking risks with Persona 5 o SMT V. If anything, they invested a whole fricking decade in Persona 5 O.O But, sometimes art can result in different aspects that one would expect or hope. And it is not that Persona 5 wasn't successful. If anything, the success of that game allows them to do something like ReFantazio.
They’ve been milking games since the PS2. I mean Nocturne has 3 different versions ffs, the JP only Vanilla and 2 versions of the overseas variant. And of course Persona 3 and 4 were also PS2 games that got multiple versions with added content at that. FES, Portable, Golden. And of course Persona got its spin-offs. It was no better than getting Vengeance this year for full price.
I understand wanting something different from developers you like. Personally I would prefer iteration on a good formula like persona or dark souls than going back to the drawing board regardless of the results like final fantasy has done.
I share pretty much the same sentiment. I'm so fucking excited for Metaphor that I bit the bullet and bought the collectors edition, my first one. But If this ends up like smt v again, an amazing game bogged down by a story that stops and ends half way through its interesting plot points (which it does twice even with vengeance) I'll never trust atlus.
I'm a newer fan of atlus (got into them through P4G in 2021) who's played P3 FES and P5R and I kinda feel you. I love P3 FES because of how experimental and different it is compared to the rest of modern Persona and most other games. I want to see more experimental stuff in their games to push them in new directions instead of things seeming stagnant and safe. I'd like to be excited for Metaphor, but I'm not because the gameplay just looks like reskinned persona and nothing much new, and I don't have the money nor time to check it out.
Good work bro. Always nice to watch other people's opinions on Atlus. I'll always be nostalgic for the early 00s games, but as long as they keep switching things up I'll give any game a chance.
i'm not buying Metaphor and i hate it cause it looks AMAZING but i know atlus has had a track record for years of releasing a game and then releasing a sequel 2-3 years later. Vengence coming out 2 years after SMT5 and just has more game. Persona 5 royal coming out 3 years after persona 5 with extra characters and cool bonuses. if this game does well and there's no reason for it not to cause it looks incredible i fully assume atlus is going to release Metaphor Plus in less than 3 years
@@floop1662i think you’re being a little optimistic in assuming they aren’t going to release a “persona 3 reload complete edition” with the dlc included plus some extra bells & whistles to incentivize double dipping
Looking into comments, I think, I must be rly weird that I see good differences from P5 and SMTV. Extra I'm still excited about the Methaphor and from trailers, I see gam can be something different from games above. I see too much conplains to the game that is not here yet. It was rather obvious similarities will be here but full game will show if its just a reskin (even if it will be, still it will be good, with new story etc ).
I agree so heavy on this video. As someone who's only been an atlus fan since 2018 and has dived into many megaten games since, i definitely feel somewhat of a lack of creativity in the newer games like smt v (base) and persona 5 royal. It feel super formulaic and is starting to get stale. Dont get me wrong i still think persona 5 is a good game but part of me can't enjoy it as much as i want to because I've already experienced the same formula twice before it and highkey its getting real boring.
Great video! Definitely feel like Atlus reached somewhat of a plateau this last few years post-SMT4. I'm hopeful for Metaphor to change their current trajectory too.
I never played persona games because the japanese highschool anime setting never interested me. But as a Final Fantasy and medieval fantasy fan, I immediately got interested in Metaphor Fantazio. I will definitely be buying this as my first Atlus game. So for what its worth, I think Atlus is really doing well by expanding their customer base to other players in a more mainstream way. Like it or not, Persona games appeal to fans of that series and its very niche. I think Fantazio appeals to all new players in a mainstream way which is cool. And medieval fantasy is always popular.
The only thing im worried about is the inevitable royal/reload/vengeance port of the game two years later. I never even beat SMT V, and and then vengeance gets announced, and I have no drive to play vanilla v nor buy vengeance. Other than that I too am excited for metaphor
4:51 is when the question from the title is answered. Out of the modern atlas games (post SMT 4) I’ve only played to completion P5 original in 2017 everything else I more or less skipped/scrubbed out on and am likely to skip Metaphor as well unless it’s the second coming or something. Not that I want it to fail persa just doesn’t really appeal to me. For reference my fav 2 games of theirs are P3P (F-Route) and Devil Survivor 2.
I don't know if you read every comment but HOOO LEEE SHIT am I happy this video found its way to me. I thank you for making it from the bottom of my heart. I am a DDS & Nocturne soldier and when I see that ATLUS' current output is "urban Persona and fantasy Persona", my heart aches with the dull pain of disappointment. I'm not hopeful for Metaphor unfortunately, so I am in that death spiral. Thank you.
I've never played the original P3, Portable, or FES. I can only judge P3R as a game by itself and not a remake, but as a game, I think its basically perfect. There's really only one minor flaw, and it's story-related (funnily enough, it's something that the movies actually did)
@@lucymorrison You didn’t support the game because their basically wasn't an option to feature pink as the main color instead? That's kinda petty given how much effort was put into the game. I don't think the color pink warrants a replay of a 60+ hour game. Oh, and there's a few dialogue changes I guess
@@lucymorrison She wasn't even in the original, but Reload made a lot of money whether you support it or not (especially after Episode: Aigis releases)
@@just_an_elli wether it succeeded or not doesn't matter to me. I'm not buying a game that doesn't include my favourite part of the games it was based on. And it doesn't matter if she was in the original, she was added in and she deserves to be included in future media. The Answer also wasn't in the original Persona 3 and Atlus are perfectly happy to charge an extra $30 on top of a $70 remake of an originally $40 game that was made $30 with FES and Portable. Wether or not a game succeeded doesn't make me more willing to support a product that nickles and dimes its fans and leaves out significant content.
Im not entirely sure what the criticism for P5 is. I can understand feeling that its a bit overexposed now, but it took about two console generations to launch so its definitely not a cashgrab. It's incredibly high concept. We are talking about psychic tokyo teenagers using Jungean archetypes to dive into the minds of sex offenders and analogs for contemporary Japanese politicians by manifesting their repressed desires from the collective unconscious in the form of real world religious figures. All in the style of French revolutionary iconography and Lupin the 3rd. Shit is objectively wild. I can get feeling a bit bummed by thr original story of SMT V but that still had a pretty crazy premise and unique visual identity. Im playing vengeance now and i definitely feel that they have taken the plot considerations to heart. Afterall, not even Nocturne included its most iconic content in the original release. The altus enhanced port song and dance is definitely nothing new given that they've been doing this since at least the famicom. I definitely think Sega has had a negative influence on their DLC practices, but I do want the studio to make its money at the end of the day. Persona 3 is probably the most impactful story ive experienced in the medium (shy of Mother 3) so having this brought to a new audience on modern hardware isn't something I can look down on. All the while Metaphor is still cooking on thr back burner. Life is good. Great even. The new blood is cutting their teeth, and thr old guard is doing crazy stuff. Otherwise it's business as usual. Stay excited! Your favorite artists are doing your favorite things.
For me, the concept is nice, but badly done in story telling for P5, is why I cannot bring myself to like it since is a full let down in story. It wants to be deep and dive into these concepts and does it very superficially and poorly, it ends up being more empty and infantilized as I kept going. The characters and social links don’t feel like their own person as they solely depend in an unhealthy way on the main protagonist and the only ones I can actually defend are Ryuji (only as a social link, in the story he isn’t very well incorporated like the rest of the cats), akechi (perhaps the best character in P5) and Yusuke. The rest of the links don’t feel genuine in the slightest and only showcases how much of a power fantasy it feels like, similar to the way many isekais are. The only part that is actually good is the last trimester with Maruki in Royal imo, but that makes the rest feel absolutely worthless and a drag to follow for hours for a last part that is trying to wrap up the mess created before hand. I genuinely wanted to like it in release, I simply couldn’t.
@@kyunnmmm3097 interesting I generally feel the exact opposite. To me the Maruki content feels tacked on (well.. mostly because it was) and the main cast has great chemistry and is easy to love, especially futaba. It has incredibly heavy subject matter including suicide, sexual exploitation, depression, repressed desires, political corruption (it actually tends to use realm world Japanese political figures as reference material. The stories for the heart changes are largely not made up) while continuing the discussion of religious and psychological themes present in SMT/ earlier games. The role the demiurge and Philemon play during the ongoing conflict is incredibly rich and full of symbolism. If the anime aesthetic is enough tompit you off from these themes or you're not willing to read more into the symbolism associated with the franchise, I understand, but I can't think of another game with as much thought and depth.
@@rafaelluciano5596 my brother in christ: i love SMT with a passion and persona, saying you aren’t looking enough at symbolism inna franchise built on them is disingenuous. To say the themes are interesting and how they relate to japanese culture is one thing, but concepts alone don’t mean good storytelling and is shown with the huge mess P5 is, specially as it infantilizes the themes it so much want to use.
As for the group chemestry, its buildup is unnatural and artificial, it advances for plot sake, but no character actually grows, which is a fault I specially give to Ryuji in story (again, he had the best social link, but the group shouldn’t depend on social links alone to be able to grow).
wut a shit opinion
ong
based
o(TヘTo) so fucking real...
@@mlc369 why are yall clowing my opinion. its not like i said that amiibo festival was good.
goated
Metaphor is exciting to me because even in the realm of fantasy, it feels so original. It would've been so easy to put something out that looked like any other fantasy JRPG in the last 15 years, but Metaphor's premise combined with the hybrid Fantasy/1970s aesthetic really makes it feel like the team is making whatever the hell they really want to make.
The battle system is copied from trails through daybreak lol
@@omensoffate I... didn't say anything about the battle system?
is it really original though, from what we have seen it's like a persona clone in some ways while new in other
@@Erk1234567 you said it feels so original when the game is not
"it feels so original"
no, it feels so persona5-reskinned, from the UI to sfx, even the PS3 graphics quality lmao,
and they're gonna damn reuse it for persona 6, I have no hope
Do I have to play Simile before Metaphor or can I jump right in
You can jump in *like* mario if you want
Though it’s a spin off, I think Hyberbole also has some lore that’ll be relevant
If you're checking out the franchise, Repetition is definitely the best game
Alliteration is an underrated classic.
You can skip it but to get general world building knowledge of the game, you have to play Pars Pro Toto & Totem Pro Parte
The 6th gen era is often romanticized as this era of wild west game development. Expertise in 3d game design matched with developers experimenting with new gameplay systems at a time where you had to stand out in a market saturated by middle market one offs, but the reality is that Atlus' couldn't have brought this sensibility into later generations. You noted that pumping out 7 games is almost assembly line level work but game budgets and audience expectation have grown to the point where you can't make a grey looking jrpg with no voice acting and have it sell 200-300k units anymore, they'd be out of business.
It is good that Atlus is taking somewhat of a risk with Metaphor cause it feels like a statement, that they feel safe in doing a new IP and putting talent behind it even at a time when we would expect their publishers and parent company to be breathing down their neck, Atlus still feels like a studio with something to say.
my argument here would be that record setting profits from the studio may not enable 6th gen level output but it should enable something more than what we are getting. Especially in the context of game dev costs going down (adjusted for inflation) from the 7th gen AND the switch, a system where lower fidelity games thrive, is about to become the best selling console ever.
@@fortayee Problem with record setting profits is that its often an incentive to not do something different and given that SMT V vanilla was a switch exclusive and didn't take advantage of the ability to work with a lower fidelity (it runs like dogshit) then I would be skeptical that publishers have really caught up to the appeal of the switch.
Its not an arguement, I was agreeing that Metaphor gives me a bit of hope.
@@fortayeeit’s interesting everyone always blames atlus but never thinks Sega is the one actually pushing the agenda. We have to remember they are no longer independent
@@Solavation What agenda Sega pushing? If that's the case, Atlus would've bring out all the classics into modern platform but clearly that's not the case at all.
@@zeroskaterz92 They probably are, remember that takes time to do. Capcom recently just did it with their fighting games collections just this year. Konami just released the castlevania DS collection just 2 days ago. It takes time, so maybe we just gotta wait a little bit. SMT3 did get basically a remake as well of sorts.
It’s super ironic you chastise them for making the same games and running out of ideas, then jump to praising Metaphor; which is quite literally all the same games and ideas put into one atlus cliche of a game.
maybe!
@@fortayee STOP…BEING SO UNDERSTANDING AND NICE WHEN I’M TRYING TO BE ANGRY!!! I’M CONFUSED
Even if that's true it's still a new ip regardless and even if the gameplay is old the game still can't lean on a name like a sequel/spinoff could
@@shobooknight Yet once again they ironically in every commercial have “from the creators of persona” to some effect 🤡
Music in order of appearance:
SMT IV - Traffic (Arcade Town)
Danger by Etro
SMT IV - Main Theme
SMT IV - Homesickness
Metaphor - Battle Theme
Strange Journey - A Land Controlling Roads
was a joy to work on, can't believe the way this is hitting the algo right now LOL
Danger is by Etro Anime*.
But thanks for the list!
prayer >> danger. don’t @ me
riding on a sword to slide (fly) is actually pretty popular in Chinese classical fantasy. It is quite similar to riding on a broomstick to fly in Western fantasy.
This is so cool omg
I need them to get weird after metaphor. I don't mind that they're banger hunting with persona but I need an SMT spin off that's off the rails and maybe something non RPG like catherine
It's pretty funny how MegaTen started as an adaptation of a series of novels, with said novels pivoting to take inspiration from SMT later on (just look up the plots of the New Digital Devil Story books, they sound straight out of Saturn/PS1 era MegaTen). The biggest reason I'm excited for Metaphor is it seems like this is the game Atlus has actually wanted to make for years. They're finally free of the Tokyo setting, they aren't limited by real world mythologies, and while there's social aspects, they make sense in the context of the story and don't seem like they're there just to appeal to the visual novel crowd. Couple that with a few small changes like the protagonist not being fully silent (that's a huge deal for me as someone who's a big fan of the Trails series) and I genuinely haven't been this excited for an Atlus game since the re-reveal of SMT V. Of course, I then played Vanilla V and was properly whelmed, but Vengeance has been so good that it's renewed my faith, and I'm properly hyped again.
Here is also one thing i like, they didnt changed the engine once, unlike other studios they started with the same persona 5 engine and continued to build it upon it
@@mantraki Eyy, fellow Trails fan.
I just want atlus to drop denuvo from their games
Im excited for metaphor and to see what they do with the next entry in persona. Atlus has so many options for the next step, so many old series they can continue or soft reboot. I think they can do it, assuming their greed doesn't ruin then first
Calling persona 5 another persona 4 is a bit of a stretch no?
Maybe could’ve articulated this better. After waiting over half a decade from p4 I kind of hoped it would be more than how similar it is
@@fortayee is this in relation to it being a high school setting?
@@LOLxUnique probably far more in relation to it being the same basic formula and gameplay systems with similar ambitions.
Look I can agree that after persona 5, they started milking it's formula like crazy and put it on their other franchises, but I'm sorry, when it came out who the heck said "Oh just another persona 4 clone, same old same old 😅"
@@lunaromancia Oddly enough P5's tone felt like P4 more than P4 itself most of the time anyway. I don't think P5 ever had a scene remotely close to Namatame's conclusion lol
Do you know what series from them needs to come back? Trauma center. We have not had a game in that series since 2010.
I don't really follow the reasoning of Persona 5 being another Persona 4. I think they're very much their own things with their own commentary on society and the human condition. I suppose they do hold the same primary gameplay loop but that's not a bad thing. Pretty much all sequels share primary gameplay loops. For example, all the doom games share the same gameplay of running around & shooting demons while collecting keycards but their not lesser for it.
FACTS
i think youre being a bit general though i do understand. My counter example would be persona itself. 1,2, and 3 all play entirely different. final fantasy, zelda every so often. Many franchises do this
@@fortayeedragon quest doesn’t. Final fantasy doesn’t even have an identity anymore. Persona is sticking to its jrpg roots. Games dnt need to reinvent the wheel every new game
@@beck_gaming1243 p4 is when they shifted to all of a character's/part member's "char development" into SL/confidants and having your party's life revolve around the MC (which P5 does too). thats kind of the only thing i can really point to for fortayee saying "p5 is another p4" because even though i like all of the persona and SMT games that aspect of p4 and p5 are very disappointing which i hope they change in p6.
Introduce a character, speedrun their "character arc" over that dungeon, beat their boss then riffing on 1 or 2 their quirks for the rest of the game kinda flanderizing them in-story(P3Reload is guilty of doing this to Akihiko with the whole protein thing in the link eps)
@@beck_gaming1243 P3's problem is really bad pacing, tartarus, and backloading the story and character development near the end but it does have proper in-story character development(Junpei's B-plot with Chidori, Mitsuru learning to trust others way later in the game after a certain death, ken+aki+shinji b-plot, yukari and aigis finding purpose, etc). also all of these happen independent of MC's involvement(other chars have lives outside of MC) and happen gradually throughout the story.
p4 and p5 finish their characters' entire arcs(in-story) within the boss/dungeon they're introduced. Chie drops a huge bombshell that she's got a inferiority complex going on with Yukiko in the beginning but this is never addressed again in the story after saving Yukiko/boss fight. she develops in her SL but this is not translated in-story she's still the goofy f-steak bestie
I'm not trying to dog any of these games i love them all, but im just making sense of/interpreting what this video means by p5 being another p4. its fine to iterate on a proven formula but imo p4 and p5 take a step back specifically with how they handled character development(but balance that out with gameplay, plot structure/pacing, SL improvement)
Going to take a gander that one of the points discussed here is that we have no idea what Atlus is releasing after Metaphor. To which I say… yeah kinda has me interested. But then again it may give me the opportunity to cover other games from their catalog while waiting for what’s new
Holy sht, is the Agrat lover. Btw I love your videos, man.
@@carlosr.1394 TYSM!
Idk if there are other artists represented as well but I really like the use of heironymous bosch's (im sure thats spelled wrong) artwork to give the game a strange yet familiar feel. I instantly clocked the monster thats shaped like an egg with the heart hat as bosch and its such a fun point of inspiration
Atlus please give DDS 1 and 2 on modern consoles and SMT 4
I'm excited about Metaphor but I definitely have some concerns based on the gameplay/trailers we've seen to date. Basically to me it looks like the game is "Fantasy Persona" (calendar system with limited number of actions per day, archetypes being a stand in for Personas, etc). I'm afraid that the social commentary will be too on-the-nose as well. Given the long development cycle I have to wonder if this is the vision the team always had or if there was pressure from higher-ups to make it closer to Persona. I'd love to be proven wrong though of course and for the game to carve out it's own identity.
yeah i totally think these concerns are valid. Im just choosing to be hopeful
I just got into the world of Atlus so I have tons to catch up on but from what I see they give up quickly if something fails that isn't Persona or now SMT. Hope Metaphor does well ❤️
as someone who's gotten into SMT and Atlus broadly more recently, it's been an interesting world to step into. The fire emblem fandom prepared me well I think
@@contextsensitive8484 praying for you as a fan of both
great video... really motivating me to finish the atlus titles i haven't started/committed myself to yet, especially SMT IV. haven't been into megaten for as long as you, but as someone who's been slowly working my way back through most of the catalogue for a while now, i very much agree with your overall points. always love when people acknowledge just how strong their run was during the sixth gen. generational stuff.
I might be a minority here but I was more excited when re-fantasy was announced and the concept art started showing. Now it just looks like persona but medieval with a strange journey soundtrack. Sure it’s probably going to be good but I would have preferred something more akin to digital devil saga in terms of art, themes and sound.
Hells, I would have settled for a re-release of Digital Devil Saga
This game is getting so little hype for how good it’s gonna be. Absolutely cannot wait
I've never played any other Megaten game outside of the Persona trilogy, but the first time I saw Metaphor it got me interested and the trailers make it seem so good. If I end up liking this game I'm TOTALLY gonna start playing other Megaten games.
This might be the first time I’ve heard of Metaphor and I’m already looking forward to its release lol, thanks for the heads-up
@@invencsibel I hope for both of our sake it’s good!
I’m really excited for metaphor
It’s been cooking for 10 years and it looks incredible, weird and creative.
do you think a Giten Megami Tensei remake will revitalize ATLUS? 🙂
This is why I enjoyed soul hackers 2. Very similar combat wise but more mature story and cast.
Glad to see another SH2 enjoyer! The story and art direction were very good!
Never heard of Soul Hackers. I might have to check that out
@@artagle_14 if ur gonna do it i recommend checking out the 1st soul hackers first or at least watch a yt video about it it's just an amazing game
I'm so hyped for Metaphor, probably my most awaited game in 2024. I just hope that the performance is good, i saw some gameplay of Gamescom and the loading times are laggy
I'm also excited for metaphor. Though with the amount of things their showcasing, I'm staying off trailers and such. My hope is we can get a really cool game to cap off the end of the year.
a friend of mine expressed his concerns about metaphor's very overdone political character tropes. it's something i'm probably going to be wary of as i'm playing now that i've noticed, but i'm still very interested in the game's setting and concept.
What do you mean overdone political character tropes?
@@ironrex6979 my friend's exact words:
"... could we PLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASE STOP doing fantasy settings where it's 'oppressive theocratic vs charismatic young violent warmonger who wants to instill a meritocracy'?"
@@bubbletea_ reading that actually got a laugh out of me and I believe you. Thank you for sharing, this could be interesting depending on how it is handled! I do agree it is a bit over done 😅
I think the creatives within Atlus have been giving certain... signs that go kind of deep into spoiler territory...
Consider that, in Persona 5, the Velvet room has been captured by Yaldabaoth. And in SMT 5, Lucifer has been unable to escape the mandala system he despises, despite achieving transcendent power. To put it another way, the creators are creatives who are worried about "selling out". Rather than making games because they have something to say, they're pressured to make games in order to make money for the company and its shareholders.
Anyway, great stuff, you've earned a sub.
Ooh I see what you’re saying. And thank you!
I agree, Atlus is still a studio filled with phenomenal creative artists. SMTV is proof of this. I hope Metaphor continues this I am a bit disappointed in what has been shown gameplay wise but art and story it’s doing a phenomenal job.
5:31 I appreciate that you noticed this about P5. There's entire subtext they hastily scrapped, giving the flimsiest excuse for the change, when really they just wanted something safer and more marketable. It's no coincidence that P5 had the most promotional crossovers of any Atlus game, even before it went multiplat.
I'm not getting my hopes up for Metaphor just yet. I've got mixed feelings about it looking to be a culmination of every popular design choice they've made over the past decade.
And there's definitely something to be said about the loss of craftsmanship. It's starting to feel like we're falling into a Planet of the Apes style dystopia, where the most vocal population doesn't care about the decline in artistic quality, because their tastes can't even perceive the difference.
So you’re saying Persona 5 has so little artistic quality that it’s representative of a literal dystopia? Bit of an over reaction if you ask me /:
Metaphor have potential to become one of the best JRPGs ever made.
A bit less analytical than my normal videos but I just had thoughts i needed to put out
Thanks for sharing them! I think it perfectly captures what I and many other Atlus fans have been feeling for the past few years. Hopefully they bring back the magic they once had with Metaphor. Going by the trailers and dev interviews, Metaphor seems to be the type of game we've been hoping for from Atlus for a very long time now. 😊
Sometime I wish I coukd have been born 10 years earlier so I could have been old enough to want to play most of the ps2 smt games. Also stuff like rule of rose, kuon, project zero/fatal frame, etc.
Well that was a lot of words and time to say nothing except for "I am excited"
context is important for your point to have weight (he built up to his point well)
I swear to god if they make an updated version of metaphor that u have to pay full price for again im gonna lose it
I think you highly under valued a lot of games by just calling this another something else but that’s just me. I think atlus has been doing great as persona 4 is my favorite game of all time and smt 5 is great
I quite like persona 4 myself so I get you.
I’m sure as a fan of these games though you can see my broader point about atlus “playing it safe”
@@fortayee maybe with P4, but i'd hardly call SMTV playing it safe considering it's change to semi-open world and on screen demons and all those things entail
@@fortayee they are probably still traumatized from Soul Hackers 2 flop after trying a new formula
@@fortayeeit's not playing it safe at all what they do is called smart business strategy where they don't waste money developing brand new engine or branches of existing engines on every new title in favor of reusing what they already have and making some tweaks here and there.
What this means is effectively that the next Persona title will be using the P3Reload engine and core systems and you should expect that game to be incredibly similar to p3r.
Nocturne and DDS1 & 2 are essentially the exact same game with minor systems differences but they're both fantastic in their own ways at what they do.
@@user-zl1vf4me1psoul hackers 2 is a good game, the issue with it is that it's a numbered sequel to a game that came out nearly 30 years prior on the saturn exclusively in japan and also in limited quantities on the 3DS exclusively in the west.
The game really has to be good, like atlus has been in a state of "i want to do this, but the new people can't or don't know how to do it" like sh2 and tactica were bad (or mid if you like).
Even p3r was just barely an upgrade of fes (yeah yeah... new engine and theurgies but everything else the same or even less than fes, remember how they kept saying at first the answer wasnt on the plan??).
They just included idk 30-1hr of new dialogue/scenes? No night or vacation s.links level ups, no multiple weapons, no s.link skills, just a new engine...
I got recommended this video as an Atlus fan. Overall I believe we agree with most points in the video. Since I want Atlus to stay creative. The thing is I believe they still are.
I was very excited for Metaphor when it was first announced. Once it was re-revealed years later I was a bit disappointed however Atlus has practically won me over at this point. I believe the problem with Metaphor is people are disappointed with the derivative gameplay (calendar system and combat) and the Protagonist (NotP3MC) and Strohl’s (NotYu) designs. To be fair I still have issues with the later (NotYu). That is why people believe it’s persona x fantasy. With that out of the way Atlus has shown some phenomenal stuff ranging from art direction, guest artists, taking inspiration from Hieronymus Botch, gameplay mechanics (world and combat), the other party members, story, world, and music. There’s also the fact I trust Hashino, Soejima, and Meguro. I will go to the makai for them. They are seals of quality.
I believe Atlus might have tripped over a bit during the 3DS era (SMTIV overall lack of polish and SMTIV FINAL the script/story) but I firmly believe they have been getting their game back. Persona 5, SMTV, and Vengeance are proof of that. While SH2 was excellent but I believe the oversimplified barebones gameplay and dlc was its downfall. While P3R is great but FES is all in one disk near perfection. I am with you fully I do hope P6 changes the formula gameplay wise up and as for SMTVI I trust in Atlus. I believe we agree in much more than we disagree. Blessings to you friend.
you are blowing the heck up!!!
i’m so lost is metaphor a sequel or prequel to hyperbole
I'm worried that they will consider more traditional style dungeon crawling non-profitable.
I'm not really a fan of the strong VN elements like social links or even the writing in Persona games, and the writing is too sus is, like putting a colorful facade over outdated bias, abuse, and for some reason students and teachers trying to hook up all the time.
I've been an atlus fan and tbh after they exited the 3ds era of stuff until it's 8/9th generation of console endeavors I just haven't felt like any sort of sauce or creativity like they used too. Smt5 felt antiquated SH2 just didn't keep me engaged and p3r felt like they needed to create something in between big projects. I'm praying metaphor will be the reinvention the company needs but I don't see myself purchasing it without test running it on Games pass 💀. Banger video btw
So basically this game is based on Utopia by Sir Thomas More. Interesting to see a new game based on books, it’s been too long, but not so sure socialism with no plot makes for good source material
I’m unfamiliar with that book. How are they related?
@@fortayee crescent shaped island with capital in the center, also notigor’s name is “More”
That connection hadn't even occurred to me! I thought the name was a reference to the idea of cultural mores (social norms), but a connection to Utopia is *very* interesting, and I'd love to see analysis comparing More's satirical critique of his island nation with that of Japan's modern creatives.
Oh hi! I doubt you remember me but I started reading Utopia. I can safely say it is not socialist whatsoever and I am confused why do you refer to it that way? Even the writer St. Thomas More, who is a Catholic Saint who became a martyr, wrote a warning that only anyone foolish enough to believe this book a guide will lead to their destruction. He intended it as a book for critical thought. If Metaphor has this much satire, creativity, wit, symbolism, and paradoxes then I’m sooo going to love it!
@@ironrex6979 Nah I remember it was only like 5 days ago lol. Every synopsis I read online pointed to it being the spawn of socialism but maybe that’s not true idk. Honestly from what I’ve seen so far I don’t think this game is for me, but I hope I’m wrong and you really enjoy it
if Yoko-taro who was behind the masterpiece of the nier series says that metaphor is really good, then it’s most definitely good.
Really good video! You're very knowledgeable about atlus in general. Nice to see other people excited for this game
It will be persona 5 again
that quick lil zinger you had at the end there about liking the numbers go up cuz youre an atlus fan was like rly effortlessly cool and honest. i cant NOT get behind talk like this
It was so cool
Honestly with all of the 90's Nostalgia stuff that's popular now I would collapse under the sheer weight of joy if Atlus were to tap into that creative well they had in the fifth generation. There's something about Devil Summoner and MiP (P1) that just gives them this dreamlike otherworldly quality. I would love nothing more than to see them explore more of that deeper esotericism they used to! Psychadelic backgrounds unparalleled Ambience... They have all of the ingredients but ignore the recipe... As a long time fan, Vengeance gave me a lot of hope though!
I just listened to the battle theme for Metaphor for the first time and not sure what to think of it, it's like the gun barrel of battle combined with drunk monk singing lmao.
knowing that the lyrics aren't just gibberish and actual lyrics written in Esperanto made it way more digestible for me. I'm fully on board with the direction of the soundtrack now.
@@arvox1417 Oh nice their using an actual language. Kind of reminds me of how they had a constructed language of some kind in Panzer Dragoon Saga to make the world more unique.
i'll be honest, I was very excited before we got to see more of the game. But now re fanzio looks like persona 5 but fantasy steampunk. Have you seen the gameplay stuff? almost everything came right out of p5, there's passage of time system where you mainly interact with ppl to pass that time and progress what are basically social links. There's like literal personas that every playable character has. The enemies are almost exactly what you would expect to see in p5, the menus in general and even the battle and end of battle transitions feel almost 1 to 1 from most recent persona games.
I like persona 5 but I played it twice, seeing as this is neither SMT nor Persona I expected something different. Look i'm sure the game is gonna be pretty good and ppl will love it in general but uhhh I really don't feel much from it anymore.
I do love the soundtrack already tho.
there a lot of og either left or retired , change can be fearsome element
What an amazing video! I love your voice and the way you put your ideas.
THANK YOU :3
im super hyped for metaphor and i rlly hope atlus wont sell the bag with this one
this is a metaphor ad
I wish i got paid for it lmfao
Dude you could just *only * talk about Atlus! This was great. I disagreed with a lot of your talking points but enjoyed the video nonetheless. Great content!
@@josephleiber9879 thank you so much!
I've still only played the modern Persona games when it comes to Atlus, yet I agree with the sentiment of P5 being just a 2nd pass at a P3 remake. It's their most succesful game for a reason tho: It achieved the most streamlined and addicting version of P3's gameplay loop, even if it was at the cost of difficulty and thematic depth.
That being said, after watching this video, I still don't understand why you're excited for Metaphor lol. You ask, "what other games look like this?" and so far, it just looks like P5 in a Final Fantasy setting. I don't see that as a bad thing--But to me, the main appeal of Metaphor so far is the **slightly** different take on Persona gameplay elements and not so much the narrative and setting themselves. I'm sure it will be a good and fun game, but judging by the lofty and flowery language of this video, you seem to be setting your expectations way too high. I don't think this is the experimental-creative ressurgence you're making it out to be.
You've played the demo? I've been trying to compare it to something since I've played it, and I barely can't compare it to no other game, yes it has some persona aspects to it, but the story, art style, vibes, world building is on something I've rarely seen before, it's very unique in its own right and just playing the demo, it dumps on persona 5 already. Get that high school drama wannabe Yu yu hakasho B's out of here kid, persona 3 reload creams persona 5 as well, miodocre ass highschool sim with too much irrelevant text based dung plot.
I mean a lot of ideas from Megami Tensei particularly the post-apocalypse ones come from manga like Devilman (SMT If's the closest they've referenced), Fist of the North Star, and Akira, books like Demon City Shinjuku, and movies like Terminator and Mad Max that were popular during the 70s/80s.
Still a bunch of Japanese works do take influence from Devilman so not surprised.
All art (including devilman) is derivative of prior art so yes
Recently I learned of Teito Monotagary! Atlus has really good taste :D
What Atlus need is more adult themed games like Catherine. I'm SO SICK TO MY STOMACH of having high schoolers as protagonist
I want a game being set with ADULTS being the protagonist. I don't want high schoolers, i don't want the chosen one teenager who is there to save the world.
I want to be adult being facing adults problem like maintaining relationship, loneliness,work culture,self maintained well being, expectations of family members. I want Atlus to make characters that deal with Adults topic from an adult point of view and mindset.
That's what Atlus is lacking right now. Maturity on their games you can only do the same damn High Schooler setting that many times. I'm not hype for Metaphor. I really don't care about, but i give them credit for creating a new IP because man it feels like for the last almost 10 years all they have been doing is Shin Megami Tensei related games with the random 0 marketing in between game that they tried to push as quickly it was possible so nobody notice is from Atlus.
If for Persona 6 they are going with yet another High School setting i won't be playing it.
Atlus would struggle to go back to their roots due to the new standard that is expected from their games. Much like From Software's titles being falsely viewed by the general public as absurdly difficult with convoluted lore, Atlus now has a reputation for stunning, flashy UI and character design with expressive music. SMTV, regardless of your opinion on it, proves that it's a challenge for Atlus to mix the image of their newer games with the grungy, off-putting vibe of what came before.
I'm still looking forward to Metaphor, but more than that, I'm awaiting what Atlus will do after its inevitable commercial success, and if they will put their foot down on which style they prefer to pursue. Keep in mind, Atlus is all but AAA now. The 6th Generation, where teams could be split up to work on various different projects, has been traded out in favour of focusing on one or two big games. Unfortunately, if you don't like that game, then you'll have to wait a few years before something you _might_ like comes along.
Even as someone who is a fan of persona only in atlus, metaphor refantazio looks unbelievably amazing and it’s my most anticipated game of all time
Agree completely, thank you for the wonderful video.
I agree Atlus made a lot of super creative and thought provoking titles all the way up to 2013 when Sega bought them but there's a reason why Sega bought them, they were bankrupt. Unfortunately you need to balance artistic expression with the realities of business if you want to continue operating at a professional level and I'd say they've actually done a really good job of doing that over the last decade. They've had to make some compromises but overall they're still one of the most interesting AAA developers around. It's become cool to hate on Persona 5 because it's so popular but it is widely regarded as one of the best games ever made and is by far the best selling entry in the Megami Tensei franchise and I'd argue it still has plenty to say! SMT V got a lot better with the Vengeance update and the gameplay loop is so fun and addictive and Metaphor looks really intriguing especially by 2024 AAA video game standards!
Yeah the woes of capitalism are real. Tho it is worth noting that it was atlus parent company, not atlus itself, that went bankrupt in 2013!
@@fortayee Yeah that's true. Still Atlus wouldn't exist anymore if Sega hadn't acquired them and their game sales have definitely gone up since being bought out so I'll take them being in a much healthier financial state with slightly less out there titles than not being around at all.
good video oomf. atlus is honestly kind of an exhausting company to follow but i've been stuck here thinking and talking about them for 11 years so that's still indicative of something. refantazio's dual-ended fantasy setup makes me hopeful that it'll really feel introspective of our place in the world in the way that vanilla V really failed at.
Persona 3 Reload made me so scared for the future of Atlus. Like so many decisions in that game felt like "let's make it like Persona 5"
it only took qol from p5 not anything else
hm yes... number do go up...
I'm a huge fan of Atlus also, but I will admit that I haven't played many of their games...I've played all the Persona games, beat Nocturne years ago, beat Catherine, and I own Devil Survivor, but I really want to get into more of Atlus's games. I especially wanna play SMT 4 because I've heard so many good things about it.
I appreciate your level-headed approach in this video, and it was so interesting to watch and learn about the history of Atlus
While I'm very excited about Metaphor part of me is little let down that this game looks like Persona + SMT with some added action elements. I kinda wished for something comepletly original ever since they annouced this game as Project Fantasy and while setting,music and story(so far) doesn't disappoint the combat at it's core is drawn from Persona(archetypes, party members, "social links" etc.) with added elements from SMT(press turn). You could make argument that Meta's combat might be pinnacle of Atlus' combat in SMT series but it's hard to tell without experiencing it firsthand. Let's hope there will be more to the combat or if the story with gorgeous visuals will carry the whole game.
Also I wonder how subsequent re-release it's gonna be received and if expectation of potential re-relase won't hurt sales. I doubt it will but I've seen big enough discourse online about it which to me seems like we're closing in on boiling point regerding Atlus' re-releases.
Oh yeah who doesn’t remember the ps 360
I agree, I wasn't a fan of SMT IV A, SMT V, or Soul Hackers 2. While I liked Devil Survivor 2, it didn’t capture the magic of the first one. They all seem to lack that niche, gritty, unique feel. I'm not sold on Metaphor yet, but the premise and style look cool. Great video!
I remember the first time I beat Persona 5 and I felt disappointed, because it didn't change my life like other Atlus games.
But I still played it again, all 100 hours of it and I will play Royal soon.
There is nothing like an Atlus game, even if you don't like that particular one. And, sincerely, I can't say I dislike any of these games.
Persona 3 Reload, Persona 5 Royal and SMT V Vengence are still so much better games that everything else in the market in many aspects that I have problems trying to be hard on them.
I love those games and I like seeing modern iterations of classic ideas, like SMT V did with Nocturne's ideas or Persona 5 did with 4's.
I am not truly that worried about Atlus.
Experimentation with high budgets leeds to risks and I never felt that Atlus wasn't taking risks with Persona 5 o SMT V.
If anything, they invested a whole fricking decade in Persona 5 O.O
But, sometimes art can result in different aspects that one would expect or hope.
And it is not that Persona 5 wasn't successful.
If anything, the success of that game allows them to do something like ReFantazio.
Oh Atlas in the PS2 era, I miss the days where they would release banger after banger, and not spend years milking the same game, cough PS5 cough 😑
Go cry about it persona 5 makes them money
@gamerbeast3616 Only cause of predatory DLC Practices and Cattle/Whales like you.
They’ve been milking games since the PS2. I mean Nocturne has 3 different versions ffs, the JP only Vanilla and 2 versions of the overseas variant. And of course Persona 3 and 4 were also PS2 games that got multiple versions with added content at that. FES, Portable, Golden. And of course Persona got its spin-offs. It was no better than getting Vengeance this year for full price.
@@abaddon1503 It helps that half the content then wasn't cut off by DLC and acted like an expansion as opposed to Day 1 DLC.
*every persona game since 3
I understand wanting something different from developers you like. Personally I would prefer iteration on a good formula like persona or dark souls than going back to the drawing board regardless of the results like final fantasy has done.
I share pretty much the same sentiment. I'm so fucking excited for Metaphor that I bit the bullet and bought the collectors edition, my first one. But If this ends up like smt v again, an amazing game bogged down by a story that stops and ends half way through its interesting plot points (which it does twice even with vengeance) I'll never trust atlus.
32 years later, a lot of people must have retired I would imagine.
Metaphor really pisses me off, i feel like it's a rehash. I will be buying day 1 even though i have 0 hype for it
I'll take rehash's as long as it funds stuff like Metaphor ReFantazio.
I'm a newer fan of atlus (got into them through P4G in 2021) who's played P3 FES and P5R and I kinda feel you. I love P3 FES because of how experimental and different it is compared to the rest of modern Persona and most other games. I want to see more experimental stuff in their games to push them in new directions instead of things seeming stagnant and safe. I'd like to be excited for Metaphor, but I'm not because the gameplay just looks like reskinned persona and nothing much new, and I don't have the money nor time to check it out.
Good work bro. Always nice to watch other people's opinions on Atlus. I'll always be nostalgic for the early 00s games, but as long as they keep switching things up I'll give any game a chance.
I'm interested in Metaphor but I'll probably wait until after it's released to get it.
i'm not buying Metaphor and i hate it cause it looks AMAZING but i know atlus has had a track record for years of releasing a game and then releasing a sequel 2-3 years later. Vengence coming out 2 years after SMT5 and just has more game. Persona 5 royal coming out 3 years after persona 5 with extra characters and cool bonuses. if this game does well and there's no reason for it not to cause it looks incredible i fully assume atlus is going to release Metaphor Plus in less than 3 years
I totally understand your fears. Hopefully tho, Atlus will adopt their new strategy of releasing DLC instead of whole re-releases.
Im still buying it
Those ain't sequels, those are the same game.
@@floop1662i think you’re being a little optimistic in assuming they aren’t going to release a “persona 3 reload complete edition” with the dlc included plus some extra bells & whistles to incentivize double dipping
Hashino will be Atlus’ savior once again.
Looking into comments, I think, I must be rly weird that I see good differences from P5 and SMTV. Extra I'm still excited about the Methaphor and from trailers, I see gam can be something different from games above. I see too much conplains to the game that is not here yet. It was rather obvious similarities will be here but full game will show if its just a reskin (even if it will be, still it will be good, with new story etc ).
metaphor will probably be my game of the year
I agree so heavy on this video. As someone who's only been an atlus fan since 2018 and has dived into many megaten games since, i definitely feel somewhat of a lack of creativity in the newer games like smt v (base) and persona 5 royal. It feel super formulaic and is starting to get stale. Dont get me wrong i still think persona 5 is a good game but part of me can't enjoy it as much as i want to because I've already experienced the same formula twice before it and highkey its getting real boring.
Subbed. Excellent video
tysm :333
Great video! Definitely feel like Atlus reached somewhat of a plateau this last few years post-SMT4. I'm hopeful for Metaphor to change their current trajectory too.
Nah the 3DS era was the plateau we have been slowly leaving it.
I never played persona games because the japanese highschool anime setting never interested me.
But as a Final Fantasy and medieval fantasy fan, I immediately got interested in Metaphor Fantazio.
I will definitely be buying this as my first Atlus game. So for what its worth, I think Atlus is really doing well by expanding their customer base to other players in a more mainstream way. Like it or not, Persona games appeal to fans of that series and its very niche. I think Fantazio appeals to all new players in a mainstream way which is cool. And medieval fantasy is always popular.
The only thing im worried about is the inevitable royal/reload/vengeance port of the game two years later. I never even beat SMT V, and and then vengeance gets announced, and I have no drive to play vanilla v nor buy vengeance. Other than that I too am excited for metaphor
man thanks for making this video I am so excited for metaphor
Thank you for watching :3
I would wait for the remastered version of this game tbh.
4:51 is when the question from the title is answered.
Out of the modern atlas games (post SMT 4) I’ve only played to completion P5 original in 2017 everything else I more or less skipped/scrubbed out on and am likely to skip Metaphor as well unless it’s the second coming or something. Not that I want it to fail persa just doesn’t really appeal to me. For reference my fav 2 games of theirs are P3P (F-Route) and Devil Survivor 2.
You got my subscription, looking forward to more of your content
Thank you so much I really do appreciate it :)))
4:03 metal pipe sfx
I don't know if you read every comment but HOOO LEEE SHIT am I happy this video found its way to me. I thank you for making it from the bottom of my heart. I am a DDS & Nocturne soldier and when I see that ATLUS' current output is "urban Persona and fantasy Persona", my heart aches with the dull pain of disappointment. I'm not hopeful for Metaphor unfortunately, so I am in that death spiral. Thank you.
Im glad you enjoyed :3333
and i try to read everything hehe
I've never played the original P3, Portable, or FES. I can only judge P3R as a game by itself and not a remake, but as a game, I think its basically perfect. There's really only one minor flaw, and it's story-related (funnily enough, it's something that the movies actually did)
no femc no buy
@@lucymorrison You didn’t support the game because their basically wasn't an option to feature pink as the main color instead? That's kinda petty given how much effort was put into the game. I don't think the color pink warrants a replay of a 60+ hour game. Oh, and there's a few dialogue changes I guess
@@just_an_elli acting like that's all kotone adds is stupid lol, not buying the game unless she's added and she likely won't be so eh
@@lucymorrison She wasn't even in the original, but Reload made a lot of money whether you support it or not (especially after Episode: Aigis releases)
@@just_an_elli wether it succeeded or not doesn't matter to me. I'm not buying a game that doesn't include my favourite part of the games it was based on. And it doesn't matter if she was in the original, she was added in and she deserves to be included in future media. The Answer also wasn't in the original Persona 3 and Atlus are perfectly happy to charge an extra $30 on top of a $70 remake of an originally $40 game that was made $30 with FES and Portable. Wether or not a game succeeded doesn't make me more willing to support a product that nickles and dimes its fans and leaves out significant content.
Im not entirely sure what the criticism for P5 is. I can understand feeling that its a bit overexposed now, but it took about two console generations to launch so its definitely not a cashgrab. It's incredibly high concept. We are talking about psychic tokyo teenagers using Jungean archetypes to dive into the minds of sex offenders and analogs for contemporary Japanese politicians by manifesting their repressed desires from the collective unconscious in the form of real world religious figures. All in the style of French revolutionary iconography and Lupin the 3rd. Shit is objectively wild.
I can get feeling a bit bummed by thr original story of SMT V but that still had a pretty crazy premise and unique visual identity. Im playing vengeance now and i definitely feel that they have taken the plot considerations to heart. Afterall, not even Nocturne included its most iconic content in the original release. The altus enhanced port song and dance is definitely nothing new given that they've been doing this since at least the famicom. I definitely think Sega has had a negative influence on their DLC practices, but I do want the studio to make its money at the end of the day.
Persona 3 is probably the most impactful story ive experienced in the medium (shy of Mother 3) so having this brought to a new audience on modern hardware isn't something I can look down on. All the while Metaphor is still cooking on thr back burner.
Life is good. Great even. The new blood is cutting their teeth, and thr old guard is doing crazy stuff. Otherwise it's business as usual. Stay excited! Your favorite artists are doing your favorite things.
For me, the concept is nice, but badly done in story telling for P5, is why I cannot bring myself to like it since is a full let down in story. It wants to be deep and dive into these concepts and does it very superficially and poorly, it ends up being more empty and infantilized as I kept going. The characters and social links don’t feel like their own person as they solely depend in an unhealthy way on the main protagonist and the only ones I can actually defend are Ryuji (only as a social link, in the story he isn’t very well incorporated like the rest of the cats), akechi (perhaps the best character in P5) and Yusuke. The rest of the links don’t feel genuine in the slightest and only showcases how much of a power fantasy it feels like, similar to the way many isekais are. The only part that is actually good is the last trimester with Maruki in Royal imo, but that makes the rest feel absolutely worthless and a drag to follow for hours for a last part that is trying to wrap up the mess created before hand. I genuinely wanted to like it in release, I simply couldn’t.
@@kyunnmmm3097 interesting I generally feel the exact opposite. To me the Maruki content feels tacked on (well.. mostly because it was) and the main cast has great chemistry and is easy to love, especially futaba. It has incredibly heavy subject matter including suicide, sexual exploitation, depression, repressed desires, political corruption (it actually tends to use realm world Japanese political figures as reference material. The stories for the heart changes are largely not made up) while continuing the discussion of religious and psychological themes present in SMT/ earlier games. The role the demiurge and Philemon play during the ongoing conflict is incredibly rich and full of symbolism. If the anime aesthetic is enough tompit you off from these themes or you're not willing to read more into the symbolism associated with the franchise, I understand, but I can't think of another game with as much thought and depth.
@@rafaelluciano5596 my brother in christ: i love SMT with a passion and persona, saying you aren’t looking enough at symbolism inna franchise built on them is disingenuous. To say the themes are interesting and how they relate to japanese culture is one thing, but concepts alone don’t mean good storytelling and is shown with the huge mess P5 is, specially as it infantilizes the themes it so much want to use.
As for the group chemestry, its buildup is unnatural and artificial, it advances for plot sake, but no character actually grows, which is a fault I specially give to Ryuji in story (again, he had the best social link, but the group shouldn’t depend on social links alone to be able to grow).
If you have to dig up what they based themselves to enjoy a story that is mediocre in the way they lay it down then its not a good story.
Metaphor looks like it will be fantastic