Soul Hackers 2 Failed To Become The Third Pillar
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- Опубликовано: 25 июл 2024
- To Celebrate Soul Hackers 2's 1 year anniversary, lets talk about why it didn't become the third pillar of Atlus.
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0:00 Intro
1:18 Before Release
5:00 Release
9:01 November Update
12:59 Conclusion
#soulhackers2 #Ringo #atlusgames 
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I think Soul Hackers 2 suffered from an identity crisis. It wanted to modernize the feel of the original Soul Hackers while trying to appeal to Persona fans and mainline SMT fans simultaniously. It trying to please everybody, it pleased nobody. The day one DLC didn't help endear the game with fans either.
not mainline smt, mostly persona but yeah... it didn't get a lot of people playing
Tokyo Mirrage Sessions did it first tho
Yeah TMS wanted be for SMT and Fire Emblem fans, and instead of Majin Tensei (which was ,,real'' SMT x FE game), we got Persona 4,5 in idol setting.@@therealjaystone2344
@@therealjaystone2344you know what’s the crazy part, I genuinely think Tokyo Mirage Sessions has better pure gameplay than SH2
So I'm not the only one thinking it reeks of Persona vibes...
I love Persona, but when a non Persona game starts to try to feel like Persona, especially with how Segatlus tries to MILK P5, yah. It gets bad.
I hope their future titles won't try to be P5 all over again, but with different skins.
Sure, there was SMT5 that was more normal, but I hope it won't become an exception in what they release next (outside of remakes and remasters).
This issue is that they made Soul Hackers 2 and not Devil Summoner: Soul Hackers 2.
Also worth mentioning ATLUS didn't develop Soul Hackers 2 for the Switch, which is the most prominent platform in Japan, and is best for niche dungeon RPGs like Soul Hackers 2. That was a very strange business decision that certainly hampered sales and reception.
I found that weird too. It doesn't look like it *wouldn't* work on the Switch (Especially considering SMT5 is Switch exclusive), tho idk the stuff behind-the-scenes, so *maybe* there could have been an issue with it on Switch? I wouldn't know.
Maybe they tried but it didn’t work too well on the switch so they will release it for the next nintendo console?
Agreed, I would have preferred full multi-plat, but even if it were Switch exclusive, I bet it would have sold much better than it did.
@@fishingmule3266yeah especially since smt5 in the Switch alone managed to sell a million copies. Heck the smt 3 nocturne remaster sold 600,000 copies.
SMT V is on Switch and it took 6 months to hit a million which is pathetic , P5R's ports did that in about half the time. So no it wouldn't have sold any better. It also didn't help that the p3-5 ports were coming out and guess which fans and atlus cared more about?
SH2 failed for the same reason SMT V and every other non P3/4/5 game fails or under-performs, Atlus only care about P3/4/5.
Ringo's swaying cake cheeks carried this game.
She's flat... in more ways than one.
One of the things I worry about with modern Atlus is how into things the devs are. Who in the team is particularly into the occult? Who is particularly into cyberpunk? Who is into detective stories even if it is just a bit of a phase? SH2 going wrong was a shame cause it means people go see they should just make carbon copies of older games. But a team really into this neon anime cyberpunk could've made it work. Sadly most of the young staff are likely just hoping they can get onto the next Persona.
Team Maniax who does Mainline SMT seems like they don't really want to be working on SMT. That can be seen in the final product of Apocalypse and the lack of genuine inspiration in SMT V
Nah. I think Sega forcing them to change everything into Persona. Just look at Team Maniax games released after fusion with Sega (after SMT IV). More anime and easier.@@athorem
@@nr2676 If that's the narrative you want to spread, okay. But if you read the interviews for Apocalypse it reveals that a good portion of the SMT team was responsible for the more anime tone of the game because that's just the kind of game they wanted to make. Mostly the newer members IIRC
@athorem I smt v was oozing inspiration. They just didn't finish the damn thing.
@@athorem SMT V definitely had way more of an SMT tone than Apocalypse did. The problem with V was that they tried too hard to make it like Nocturne, ironically.
On the topic of dungeons, i’m very disappointed in how SH2 handled this aspect considering how varied and interesting SH1’s locations were. You literally go to a digital art museum and jump into paintings and they come with interesting gimmicks and puzzles. Here its just the same few dungeon designs with very basic layouts. They should’ve just made this game its own thing.
Yeah, dungeons and Vision Quest were best parts of original Soul Hackers. Dungeons were shorts, but each one had unique puzzle, and there were many of them. In SH2 is just Subway, Subaway, Subway and Soul Matrix which is like random generated Tartarus from Persona 3, or YHVH Universe from SMT IV Apocalypse. Music in SH1 was phenomenal, but in SH2 is generic asf. I also miss gothic cyberpunk atmosphere from SH1. Combat in SH2 is just One More variation from Persona 3-5, with Commander Skills from Strange Journey Redux.
The non-cyberspace dungeons in the first game are pretty boring though. I actually turned on the "hack" on the 3DS version to make the dungeons automatically mapped out, because they were so bland.
I don't get the appeal of Soul Hackers over Soul Hackers 2. I had bought SH ages ago and played maybe an hour of it and it didn't appeal to me at all, and finally ended up playing it in preparation for SH2.
I can say overwhelmingly that I didn't think the original Soul Hackers was a very good game... it ranks near the bottom of ATLUS games for me. It felt super weaksauce in story and characters and dungeon design. SH2 had problems, but was a much more refined game, IMO.
@@ltb1345 I don’t agree at all. You went though corporate buildings and skyscrapers, chilling facilities, underground labs, a *god damn* monkey testing facility. Sure the layouts could get tiring from time to time but at least you going through aesthetically different and interesting areas.
@@vorpal22 You are free to have your opinion, but that doesn’t change the fact that by calling this a sequel to Soul Hackers and then going out of their way to make it *not* that in everything but name is pretty disappointing for fans of the first game.
I remember when this game came out and everyone was saying that the reason it didn't sell was because they didn't market it. But that just, wasn't true. They went pretty all out with stuff like the announcement, and even getting ad space on that one fancy 3D billboard we've all seen videos of, which I can't imagine is cheap. I think the issue was more so in the fact that I'm not sure who they were marketing to. I think they were trying to get people who liked P5 into other branches of SMT, but I feel like Soul Hackers was the wrong decision to do that with, and by P5-ifying soul hackers, they made the fans of the original game feel alienated by the new style. I think the way they made it and advertised it just left it without much of an audience beyond the people who would buy just about anything attached to the SMT brand.
SH2 was announced after Persona 3-5 ports announcements = dead on arrival. Also SH2 don't looked like Devil Summoner game (a detective JRPG with ocult elements), which pissed of most of SMT fans. And Sega / Atlus should know most of Persona fans play only P3-P5, and just don't care about rest of games in franchise. Just like most of Sonic and Yakuza fans don't care about classic Sega IP's like Jet Set Radio, Panzer Dragoon, or Valkyria Chronicles. No brand building awereness Devil Summoner since 2008 (Raidou Kuzunoha versus King Abaddon). It's really hard to revive old franchise, especially without huge marketing, and being low budget AA title.
I thought it was mobile, they should've used less neon on the color palette
It's funny because SH2 kind of reminded me of Tokyo Mirage Sessions, a game that looked like it was trying to appeal to Persona fans instead of SMT, only for it to attract neither fans and flop. Then I looked up to find out that this has the same co-director and producer.
@@nr2676I mean you can't deny Yakuza having the Sega arcades didn't have ANY impact.
Also it's funny how you list Valkria Chronicles as classic when it's the newest out of those. Also You could argue the same thing about Valkria Chronicles, it did nothing for Skies of Arcadia's brand recognition.
Those were examples of franchises what most of Sonic / Yakuza fans don't care about it. And considered there is no news about Valkyria Chronicles 4, since 2018 i considered this franchise as a classic, because we don't know it is dead or not. Skies of Arcadia is ofcourse also classic Sega franchise, like Shinobi, Golden Axe, Streets of Rage, Sakura Wars, Virtua Fighter etc. @@Chelaxim
I honestly hope that one day Ringo gets a game she deserves.
Lol you best bet for that might be a fangame xD
With the abysmal sales and critical reception? Never
Shes a female megaten Protag, at best she's getting a cameo like the SMT If... protag in persona 2
Lol.
its fine, she got to be one of the Beatles.
Funny that this video came out a week after I grabbed the platinum trophy for this game.
For those wondering, no, it was not a fun platinum trophy to get
I got the platinum too. You can speed run the ng+ in like 10 hours. Not that difficult.
@oshunanat the issue was not about the difficulty. The issue comes with how boring it was. I got the true ending on my first run because i wanted a blind playthrough and going into NG+ was doing the exact same thing but with no grinding. What a borefest. At least Persona games are more interesting to me because I use NG+ to max out social links so I can experience new stuff
I platted it about a week after launch. I enjoyed it well enough. I may go back to it at some point.
@@Especis yeah, that's fair, but given how many issues it has, I figured only the most die hard would even bother so figure some enjoyment of the game.
Whatever it was that kept you playing is the insight I'm here for
This game felt like they developed cool characters, spent good money on voice actors and illustrations, then the gameplay department just said ROCK PAPER SCISSORS AND TUNNELS THATS IT.
SMTV's movement system made the hallway environmental design of this game painful.
Hey we still have metaphor maybe that could be the third
We can only hope.
Hashino called Metaphor the third pillar in his interview
It will be the third
At least Ringo lives
So far....
I think Soul Hackers 2 became a test for several things. All adult cast, more simplistic gameplay, different story take and approach with providing the main cast very early in, and how popular the west takes to these differences. When you look at it from afar SH2 does basically everything the more vocal western fans state, it's just that it meshed together awkwardly as it seems to be all new territory for the team who made this. Sad it didn't end up as a happy cult hit accident like Catherine did
nah
Thanks to this we're probably never getting an adult cast anymore
People just want to creep on teenagers
This makes me sad because I genuinely love the game, and it’s stuck with me since beating it. The art direction, the music, the characters, the entire vibe, I love it. Yes the dungeons were flat but I really enjoyed it regardless, and could see a sequel doing a lot to improve this aspect.
I agree with what you’re alluding to in that if it wasn’t called Soul Hackers 2 I think it could’ve performed better. Also a Switch release would’ve helped.
Totally agree with you. I was super psyched for this game, I loved it except for the repetitive dungeon revisiting and the rather uninspired dungeon design. The characters, graphics, music, and plot were all pretty fantastic.
I'm really hoping that Metaphor Re:Fantazio is a big hit, because it looks amazing, and it seems like Persona 5 fans have overwhelmed ATLUS fans and only want more Persona 5.P3RE is basically just a remake of P3 in the style of P5 to appeal to them, I think.
I'm getting progressively more and more disappointed in the stagnation that ATLUS has been forced into because of the success of Persona 5: this was the only game they made that wasn't "playing it safe" or expending little effort since SMTV and I'm rapidly losing interest in lieu of other JRPG companies.
@@vorpal22 That fantasy re:zero game is being done by Hashino who ruined persona when 4 came out so I have zero doubts it will fix anything
@@KesslerVTuber How did Hashino ruin Persona 4?
Honestly, the game kinda like it's a Switch game. The repetitive dungeon design, the saving anywhere anytime, the Soul Matrix, it all kinda feels like the game was meant to be played in smaller chunks during a work commute, where you wouldn't be able to notice those things or they wouldn't affect you as much because you're receiving it in a dozen twenty minute chunks rather than a single multi-hour chunk.
@@KesslerVTuberp4 is my favorite so that's awesome
I have slowly been combing through soul hackers 2 and there is something there that makes me come back. The party is interesting and I am constantly curious about the setting. Its brimming with potential and makes my little fanfiction and speculation brain go brrr.
But man I feel the lack of dungeon variety. Im at one of the last dungeons now with the whole undersea aesthetic and I love this dungeon, it was the first to really grab me. If just one of the underground lines thats used could be switched out for another location. Maybe a overgrown abandoned park for example.
Heck even the soul matrix could have slight changes aesthetically depending on whos matrix you are in with some sort of character color coding or maybe puzzle types exclusive to one particular character. As it i snow its to easy to forget whos amtrix i am currently working through.
IMHO, this is the review of it right here. There's something special with the cast, and I love the aesthetic, but clearly they didn't have time/budget to do it justice.
The 90s cyberpunk style would definitely still work, just look at cyberp2077 and bladerunner 2. Or they could've called it something else.
Yep. People want to keep avoiding part of the reason but at least OG fans would have showed up if they actually kept with the 90s cyberpunk style.
"atlus doesn't do adults"
Persona 2?
Technically Persona 5 Strikers?
No SMT examples???
Majin Tensei 2: Spiral Nemesis
SMT Devil Summoner (1995)
Persona 2: Eternal Punishment
Digital Devil Saga 1&2
SMT Strange Journey
I 100%'ed the game after the sprint update and don't believe I would have without it. While the ability to sprint allows you to outrun all the enemies, making them much less of a threat, it gives you a more agency over how much grinding you want to do. Also I can't imagine completing all of the Soul Matrix at the default speed where, even with the sprint, it was an absolute slog navigating the maze-like corridors and the frustrating portals that drop you in random spots on the map. The sprint update was absolutely necessary, and while it may have shifted the game design away from a traditional grindy dungeon crawler, it helped me reach the end of the game.
adding a sprint option, even if necessary showed lack of talent, vision or care. changing movement can break design immensly. Especially level design. It didnt here, but the fact this wasnt thought of before launch (hell even designing and developing the game)is absolutely crazy.
I don't think they clearly communicated that these are adult characters as opposed to teens in the marketing. If they wanted to communicate they are adults with adult problems, maybe dressing them like pop idols wasn't a great idea.
Adults don't have to be dressed boring though. I don't like to dress boring, I have to at work but not anywhere else.
That's a bad hot take. Dressing stylishly doesn't make them look like teens.
you sound miserable
@@aerrae5608probably why you can’t make friends.
@@engine_man Friends aren't those guys that meet you at the mandatory office lunch outing buddy.
It did feel lacking with how they tried to connect with the first Soul Hackers with the Dark Summoners and Devil Summoners with their conflict being part of the setting but none of the characters from Spooky and the like except for Azazel.
Soul Hackers 2 launched in the US and Japan six months to the day after it was announced. While this was impressive and showed they learned from SMT V, it also meant the game wasn't tested properly and they didn't have enough feedback. Yes, they saved a lot of money, and it was a budget title, and it did make money, but it damaged their brand.
The original Devil Summoner still doesn't have an English patch, the Raidou games are inaccessible, and the 3DS is a dead system. If they were going with the Soul Hackers tag, I get it, but they should have gone with a subtitle instead of a number. Do the Raidou thing and call if Devil Summoner: Ringo Versus Iron Mask. The naming system they used just didn't make sense.
I agree it should have been the third pillar. I mean, Devil Summoner even had a TV show. This should be a cornerstone franchise. Instead, we're not getting another one for a long time now, and all I want is a remake of the original.
Cool that you used footage from the live action battle. My youngest is loves Super Sentai, and he thought it was awesome.
Edit: Oh, and Soul Hackers 2 needs a Switch port BADLY. I'd buy it immediately. Make it happen, Atlus!
Or just remake original Devil Summoner, thats all. Japan love Sega Saturn, and loved original Devil Summoner game.
@@nr2676 I'd buy it in a heartbeat. I'd still like a Digital Devil Saga 1&2 Remaster for PC and Switch first though.
Both Raidou titles are/were available through the PS3 PlayStation Store in English.
As for a Switch port for SH2, I agree but also I don't: SMT 5 (great game) had a lot of people complaining about how not cinematic it was, due to the strong limitations of the system. SH2 struggled in load times alone anywhere it wasn't directly installed onto an SSD. I can't imagine how terrible the experience would be for someone to try to play SH2 in handheld mode on the Switch -- remember that Switch games have to work while docked and not, and the Switch Lite exists.
Strongly agree with you that the name should have included Devil Summoner and followed the Raidou naming scheme.
@@Invariel I have both Raidou and Digital Devil Saga games on my PS3, but they're not accessible anymore to most people. At the remarkably slow rate that SMT games are released, I just think it would be logical if they would continue to make their old content available as broadly as possible. Sega does it with their Genesis collection in every generation. Right now, Atlus games are emulated everywhere, earning them zero dollars. Even if they could be played in a browser on their website while ads ran around them, they could at least make some money. It's just unfortunate and lazy.
As far as SH2 on Switch, they have the time to optimize the game now. Drop the frame rate to 30, streamline some of the features, and put it out. Tears of the Kingdom is locked at 30 fps, and it's still selling. The Switch even got Nier Automata earlier this year, and that's considered the definitive way to play the game now. It's not that they can't, but that they won't.
It is one game that felt really soulless, and it's coming from game that have “Soul” in its title.
Even from battle transition, you can compare it with recent P3Reload trailer, how different that point alone, you can clearly feel which are crafted with passion, and which only there to tick the checklist.
Just no budget.
They hacked the soul out of soulhackers.
Yes!!! It literally felt empty. That's why the game didn't resonate with me at all. It was a "filler" so they had something to release
That's a WILD thing to find in the description
As a person who is a fan of Tokyo Mirage Sessions, it's kinda sad seeing those same devs managed to make up flaws in their next game that wasn't apparent in their past game. To me, those devs KNOW how to make a game. However, I think the devs have a trouble with branding and style for those games.
At least with TMS, they can go all out with the game thanks to that Nintendo budget hiring Avex, so much production to the animations to sell the game being all about the characters being able to perform. That's the appeal of TMS to me, the ATLUS style that people expect from their higher budget games.
While Soul Hackers 2 doesn't seem to satisfy both the gameplay and spectacle crowd right away. Soul Hackers 2 has good combat, but it's not distinct enough combat in the looks and gameplay. It's standard ATLUS combat that doesn't seem to have anything cool other than the Sabbath system happening. The characters just either use their weapon or shoot. The designs are hit or miss to people that want an extremely modern anime style to character designs as well.
I think people just saw ATLUS not going all out on the game, there wasn't anything REALLY STRONG about the game other than the SMT elements that seem cool to SMT fans. But the game falls cheap in other places.
I didn't think there were other TMS fans out there. Nice to know I'm not alone.
The absolute warcrime they did in soul hackers 2 was make Luster candy SINGLE target
Like in Persona 3-5 (Heat Riser) :D
@@nr2676 Yeah but at least that has a different name so the effect being different isn't the rug being pulled out from under you.
Tbh, I am fine with that, AoE Luster Candy was broken, I'm sorry
I feel like you missed the major point of why it failed. It took the name of Soul Hackers, while looking like a Persona game in its entirely. You're not just one dude summoning demons going through dungeons, instead it's the Persona formula. But I agree with your closing statements, love me some Devil Survivor.
When P3 was released, it drew huge outcry from P1/2 fans, but P3 was able to last. So a departure from the previous game isn't necessarily the problem, it's more down to production value.
Yes I’m a fan of these games and didn’t even make the Devil summoner connection. I bought the game but didn’t even play. If it had devil summoner in the title I would have tried it.
I'm starting to doubt they even wanted Soul Hackers to be a third pillar considering the scope of this game. Is there any actual proof that they were specifically talking about Soul Hackers as the third pillar franchise?
I know Hashino specifically said Metaphor was the third pillar in the interview for that game.
Today all game studio ms are aspired to create a lasting series because this helps retain fanbase. I am not sure if Atlus ever admitted wanting SH to be another studio pillar, but the ambition is there, just with insufficient commitment.
@@ultracapitalistutopia3550 Yeah. Now I'm wondering why they ever had the confidence that this was going to do well
I think their third pillar is going to be the Metaphor series. SH was an experiment to see if it was worth to revive Megaten's other series (Raidou, DDS, DeSu and etc.)
Metaphor looks way better then this trash
I remember them mentioning it during one of their financial reports with graphs and all.
ngl the third pillar was probably just metaphor the entire time and it got delayed so they had to prop something up 💀
Honestly that sounds the most plausible. They never mentioned Soul Hackers and third pillar in the same sentence, but they did with Metaphor
@@athoremOther way around actually
i almost finish my 1st playtrough of soul hackers 2 on hard, and it starts really good but it gives you everything in the first 2 hours and then nothing for the next 40 hours
Soul hackers has always been extremely niche, honestly I think they just need to bring back the Digital Devil Saga, at least that one was more known and also different.
Hell yeah, fellow DDS lover!!
Erm, the assassin's step skill was changed because of the backlash toward Ringo's regular walking speed. That's why it was patched post release. Actually Atlus listening to the fans, which came a bit too late to save the game unfortunately.
I'm not sure if the game could be salvaged one year later. I had a good time with it overall, but I know a lot of people gave up on it. A bit similarly to the original Soul Hackers, people either loved the style, ambiance, music, Nemissa or hated the dungeon crawling, high encounter rate, no demon leveling, higher difficulty than other 2010+ MegaTen games.
But in hindsight it was an almost impossible task to rake the most people for this game. A cyberpunk anime game in 2022 couldn't be in the same category as a cyberpunk anime game from 1997. A video call was futuristic in 1997, but after Covid? Not so much. Same with the vaporwave aesthetics of the game being more ironic when used nowadays. They could've tried making a faithful sequel, but i feel like it would've missed the mark anyway because it would've probably only appeal to fans of the first one and would've feel forced somehow.
It was probably a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. I think Atlus is in hard situation right now, kinda reminds me of Squaresoft post FF7. I see a lot of the same kind of criticism...
The biggest issue with SH2 is that it called itself a part of the Devil Summoners line while just being a literal Persona clone. The thing is that Devil Summoners were closer to the mainline SMT than Persona and so those of us who wanted something either close to the mainline SMT series or the original Devil Summoner system of gameplay and we were denied it in favor of "look at our new totally not Persona game that is infact just Persona!"
Devil Summoner were always detective jrpg, SH2 ? .... It's just Persona 5 clone without Dating Sim.
I disagree that Soul Hackers 2 is a persona clone. Maybe only in the visuals? Has no high school. Has no dating elements. Has no calendar. Protagonist is an actual character with dialog instead of a silent protag. Don't you think these are important elements of Persona? If anything, they could've taken more inspiration from Persona 5, which has much more interesting dungeon design
Buff / debuff system from Persona games not mainline SMT games, characters are anime tropes like in persona games (for example there is mascot character, inteligent girl with 1M IQ, bro character etc. all those tropies are from highschool anime, but instead of teenegers we got adults with those anime tropes), similar interface to Persona 5, pseudo Social Links / bonds system, power of friendship (happy ending), no Demon Summoning in battle, Sabath is just All-Out-Attack from Persona games, with one twist - you can use that also in boss battles, dungeons reminds me random generated dungeons from Persona 4, no demons in battle like in previous Devil Summoner games, you play as a group of characters, colorfull artstyle pandering to Persona / Tokio MIrrage Sessions fans not to SMT / Devil Summoner fans.
The only thing is diffirent from modern Persona games is: adult cast (but with highschool anime tropes), setting, and MC is not silent (in Megaten series, Atlus did that in past only in Majin Tensei games).Rest is more like Persona 5 without Dating Sim + Commander Skills from Strange Journey Redux + Viktor, Ginko and COMP from Devil Summoner.
@@capngeeoff
@@nr2676Tbh, single target Luster Candy and Debilitate is better for balancing, and Sabbaths are more like SJ's demon coops, in fact, quite a bit of the balancing seems to be based on SJ and SJR
Specifically, Devil Summoner puts focus on demons and the occult in a more contemporary setting, where demons exist alongside humanity in the modern world. Unlike mainline where the apocalypse puts demons on top, in Devil Summoner they have to coexist. And that is a big thing Soul Hackers 2 forgets. By treating the demons as little more than Persona's, they end up feeling completely disconnected from the world around them. The two are supposed to be interwoven, not something just slapped together.
This is so sad to me because I LOVED the combat and characters so much
I liked how this game looks and his characters, that was enough for me to ignore the design problems it had, but I know that not everyone can do that.
I believe the sprint patch came from criticism that you lose such function in early NG+ (which you'd want to do to max out the soul matrix) until you unlock it again through Milady's soul matrix. The replacement skill was the afterthought. It is like Pokemon's Running Shoes in the original Gen 3, where once you get used to it there's no turning back - hence that item gets introduced at the start / a few minutes in in newer generations (vs older gen where you'd complete a task that asks you to go back and forth for a while before you get them).
There's also the clunkiness that you have to cast it every now and then once the effect fades pre-patch (which is more annoying than casting Estoma or Riberama as the latter two are more intentional in casting to get more / less encounters).
I thought Etrian Odyssey would be pushed as the third pillar, next to SMT and Persona, the teaser for the next game was 5 years ago, wich for Atlus is not that much, so i wonder what's next for the franchise.
I still love this little, desolated and short rushjob of a game. Ringo is the best, anything for more voiced protagonists and less mute self-inserts. I just like to imagine how great it'd be to have the budget of a brand new mainline Persona game with the gameplay of SMT V, a plot like Nocture or SMT IV and a cast as strong as the one from Soul Hackers 2. That would be Megaten Perfection.
It is - Digital Devil Saga (great story, great atmosphere, great characters, Nocturne gameplay, good dungeons, great music, memorable ending).
Love Ringo, also love DDS, would love to get more non-Persona games from Atlus.
You would think the Soul Matrix would become more personalized as you go deeper to represent you understand that person more and more but it was just the same no matter what. Also, since its always night, it feels like time doesn't pass.
“What was popular then won’t be popular now” I completely disagree not everything has to be eternally progressive. Vaporwave/future funk, the constant 80’s DLC events in games and references in movies. Matrix cyber punk is still beloved today. I would also argue how often trying to modernize a franchise often has actually hurt rather than help.
Devil Survivor 3! Devil Survivor 3! Devil Survivor 3! Devil Survivor 3! Devil Survivor 3!
I wonder if Metaphor woulda been the 4th pillar instead of the 3rd pillar if Soul Hackers 2 was successful or did they just decide to get to work on Metaphor because if Soul Hackers 2's failure
One feature I hope makes a comeback in other smt games (including purse owner) is the ability to fuse from the compendium. So incredibly handy to flush out the compendium and 100%ing it. Even if it was locked behind something such as an Igor social link reward or a new game+.
I saw the added sprint ability as a way to shut up fans. I just remember a bunch of people bitching about it. So I figured they added it to shut people up and since there was a dedicated sprint they had to change the skill.
Good video man.
I'm sold, I'll buy this game on Steam in the future
Somewhere far away I heard Spencer laugh when I read this video title.
Really wished they listened to the audiences request and made a new Devil Summoner game instead of this half-baked pseudo sequel of the most popular entry. The Kuzunoha clan in those games were such an interesting concept to me and it's just a waste to not explore them any further.
This honestly looks like the type of game that I would really like, but what made me put this on the back burner was the mid reception and the big thing is that it was I guess a more AA and budgeted production.
Failed seems like too strong a word, but the game failed to live up to its full potential. I think all the criticisms in the video are on point, but I think the issue of DLC was one more point where Atlus chose short-term gains over long-term goodwill.
That 3rd pillar is gonna be Metaphor Re:Fantazio babyyyyy
Man I remember how hyped I was for this game and then when it came out it was just weird it was nearly unreal cause of how ,,unfinished" the game felt not saying it was bad especially in the middle and in the endgame I had a lot of fun, but there is so much missing potential in the story and even more with a cast of characters that was really interesting, many times i asked myself ,, how could they not include something so important" when thinking about the characters, also i still think that the gameplay was probably on of the worst i had ever seen in a jrpg with how slow and boring it was it really needed a plus one or extra turn system like persona or smt. But overall i think it was a solid game it had to many good character moments coupled with a actually pretty good story to see it as bad but it still lacked MANY very improtant things, I hope Atlus will not give up on Soul Hackers cause there is just way to much Potential being wasted 🤷♂️
Gotta be honest the worst part for me is that there is nearly nothing to do outside of the dungeons, what did they thought when making these small sup areas with nothing to do exept boring side quests and shops
I powered through it and enjoyed it, the characters were nice and the patch to let you fast forward and MOVE FASTER helped a lot. I couldn't imagine enjoying it if I played it at launch, sadly.
I powered through it and thought I would not recommend it or do it again.
I felt like the writing was interesting but the character which I liked were presented in the most bland way possible, I wanted more fleshed out interactions with the cast other than just Milday being snarky every response, Arrow being a bucket of drying cement, and Saizo... Actually I wanted more Saizo in general since his entire backstory kinda resolves itself and made me with I could have done more for Arrow since spoilers you wouldn't have been able to help Milady at all but Arrow could have had a branching path.
Another problem is locking Figue's content behind NG+ that expanded her character. She needed that, like not NG+, base game. That was a trash decision. I understand it was to meet the 200 soul level requirement with your party but with dlc you can get that on the first playthrough. I got the true ending on my first run because it's easy, since you actually only have to reach the 5th floor with every member not clear with 200, and the choices about the moon and sun sigils don't matter at all
Far as DLC I got the game free off gamepass and shelled out for dlc since I'm always in a time crunch and long games almost never get finished when I start them. The Lost Numbers dlc is the only one worth it, you get a good story with a nice temp party member. All other dlc was not worth buying but I did.
how is the live Ringo jacket lit up? I want one!
They could've done way better with the demon selection too. now I was happy to see Turbo Granny, Gasmaster, Halphas, Dormarth and others finally get 3D models I feel like they definately could've done more than that
like I feel like they should've focused exclusively on Devil Summoner era demons, rather than Classic era, Nocturne era, or Doi era demon, it was especially weird not seeing Siegfried in the game as he was one of the most common Devil Summoner era demons in many Megaten games, and all the sudden the one game that is related to Devil Summoner he get's the boot. I understand tho really popular demons designs of different eras like Nocturne Thor are still chosen, but some like Queltzelquotzl should've gotten their Devil Summoner designs cause their starting to show their age.
like I fully expected to see Jeanne De'Arc, Jersey Devil, Balor, Hachiman, Tyr, Catoblepas, and like the Devil Summoner design of Cu Chulainn like Dx2 did, but goddammit.
no jersey devil really bummed me out
My take is that this game was originally Tokyo Mirage Sessions 2. They pitched it to Nintendo, it was rejected and they repurposed it to as a SMT game.
I wish they'd do some more Digital Devil Saga, that was an underrated series with a killer soundtrack.
They should make a reboot of the game adapting Quantum Devil Saga. Which was originally suppose to be the game’s story before the author had to leave due to health problems
I bought this but haven't played it. I got it on the PS4 and I find myself sticking with handhelds. I should definitely peel off the plastic and give it a try.
where are we getting the idea that atlus wanted a “third pillar”? i think this was just a throwaway one off game they had little expectation from
I wish they made a 3rd Digital Devil Saga(new cast but same combat/skill system).
They could handle a new Digital Devil Saga game like they handled the Devil Survivor games: same general gameplay ideas but different cast AND universe as a whole
After all, the title “Digital Devil Saga: Avatar Tuner” (a subtitle for an already original game title) leaves room for a whole lot of imagination
I can see what you’re saying about the sprint update. It seems like they didn’t really know what kinda game they wanted to make
Hey what's the music playing in the background? It's super chill
its the soul hackers 2 hideout ost
@@critical_6164 thanks
Atlus wasn’t planning on added a sprint button until people started complaining about it
I just played a demo of it. I thought it was great. Totally buying it.
I had just beat the game on its anniversary (if you count the world wide release) and I loved it. It was a 8.5/10 for me, some issues but I’m glad I played it since the mixed reception is what made me curious about it as a product. It’s a shame it couldn’t become a third pillar because I would’ve loved to see more from it, I never cared for SMT or other Atlus RPGs outside of Persona (I only played 5, plan to play the previous titles now that the remasters exist) but honestly now I would want to play SMT 3 and V and any other RPGS by Atlus *because* of SH2. I do hope we’ll see something like it again in the future since I’m already tired of P5 being mainstream and it’s a shame to see this series and the characters we loved fade away
If you know how to play them don't miss out on 4 and 4Apocalypse.
The setting of those games are at the peak of SMT.
The problem ATLUS has right now is people that similarly came to ATLUS because of P5, but unlike you, only want more Persona. They're basically uninterested in any of the other franchises, so we ATLUS fans and ATLUS are now stuck at the mercy of the overwhelmingly huge P5 fanbase.
It's very refreshing to meet someone who came to ATLUS through P5 but has since expressed interest in branching out. SH2 was a pretty good game, with the exception being the dungeon design, which was... tedious. I can't believe that ATLUS flubbed that aspect of the game, because had they got that right, I'm sure the game would still be heavily criticized, but at least it would have been more fun and a lot of the criticisms that ATLUS fans had would vanish, and it might have lured in more P5 fans.
I definitely recommend you try to pick up SMTIV and SMTV, and SMT: Strange Journey Redux if you can. SMTIV and Etrian Odyssey IV were my introductions to ATLUS and SMTIV blew my mind.
I am so tired of P5, P5 remake, P5 spinoffs, P5, P5, P5... People who are blaming SH2 for poor sales because it wasn't on the Switch are completely ignoring the fact that P5 wasn't on the Switch until not that long ago... the fact that it was for a very long time PS exclusive didn't seem to hurt sales, and SH2 being on the PS4, PS5, Xbox, and Windows should have made it accessible to most gamers.
I'm genuinely concerned for ATLUS and how safe they have been playing things since SH2 wasn't the success that SEGA expected. It was successful by ATLUS former standards, but after P5, almost everything is going to be considered a flop because P5 fans are not general ATLUS fans.
@@vorpal22 I only have access to SMT 3 and 5 but I am really looking forward to trying them in the future and other Atlus RPGs (looking into what other games they made I can play). I took the chance of playing P5 when it was free for PS Plus users because I didn’t wanna risk buying a turn based game and not liking it since I’m iffy when it comes to that type of gameplay and I enjoyed P5 but it’s definitely overrated, and I rolled my eyes at the Tactica spin-off and Persona 5X gacha. SH2 was a more interesting experience for me in terms of gameplay (and the demons being demons work better than being Personas) and seeing what you can do in SMT3 and 5 has me excited to try them when I can
@@pennydolts4286
Persona 1 and 2 do the Persona aspect better than 3-5. Persona 3 was kind of a reboot of the series with the calendar system and social links.
If you like the demons aspect better though then SMT is definitely the way to go, and Digital Devil Saga would be even better than that for you because the demons are actual characters themselves.
If anyone is interested, there is an English fan translation of the original Saturn game in development, seems to be going well.
It has been in development for a long time with not many updates
IMO it's not neccesary anymore since there's the 3DS version.
@@olimac82 it's not necessary if you think it should only be playable on the 3ds.
@@olimac82 If you mean the original Devil Summoner that port is only for the PSP. Soul Hackers was on the 3DS.
It's been in develpoment hell because CJ_Iwakura group worked on (in same time) with Grandia, Sakura Wars 1, and Persona 2 Eternal Punishment fan translations. All of them were finished not that long ago (2016 - Grandia, 2019 - Sakura Wars, 2022 - Persona 2 Eternal Punishement), and now is turn for Devil Summoner.@@nykita427
I think an easy shorthand on the games is simply to listen at their respective opening themes. One is clearly done by someone who understands the core work and what it tries to do, the other is just you standard pop stuff.
Oh they're not going to experiment anytime soon. It's persona only in the near future
Unfortunately you right.
@@nr2676 i wish they would
Probably. Their fault, they didn’t try hard enough.
@@Sonic171K Yeah, I wished they did 😅
We need Soul Hackers 2 for Switch, it's gonna be banger!
Did you just try to suggest that "Etrian Odyssey" has the same level of relevance as mainline SMT and Persona? I mean, *maybe* in its heyday...
I have it ! I dont have the time to finish it
It’s so disappointing that SH2 failed. I was hooked right away and basically played it nonstop until end. The saddest part is that I won’t ever get more of it.
Im really thinking that Metaphor: Re Fantazio is going to be that Third Pillar
Yeah. Because game have much higher budget than SH2, better marketing, Hashino, Meguro, and it feels like Persona 5 reskin in fantasy setting. Such a lazy way for making 3rd pillar (Persona 5 clone in diffirent setting, wow what a ingenuity).
@@nr2676People are going to eat it up anyway
@@nr2676lol persona put atlus on the map show some damn respect
And without Shin Megami Tensei (SMT If) would be no Persona, and without Tokimeki Memorial would be be no Persona 3-5 ... show them respect.@@_CrimsonBlade
@@nr2676Cool
And both are and always will be nothing economically speaking before literally any other franchise on Earth. SMT has neither the critical nor commercial chops to keep the lights on for Atlus. Who knew that making something that was unlike the profitable stuff didn't sell well.
Personally I think the series died after SMT2. I'm just here for the nice music which 5 had loads of. Kaneko was an inspired artist but his ancient retired self is literally carrying SMT by itself at this point. That's not healthy for any franchise. The newblood is neither new nor understands what made the old games good. Or as is more likely know it won't sell so they seek something else.
DS:SH is my second favorite MegaTen game (after SJ), so I was unreasonably hyped when the first rumors dropped that there was going to be a Soul Hackers sequel. My hype died entirely when the first trailer came out and I saw that it was actually basically Tokyo Mirage 2 and really in no way a sequel to Soul Hackers. The sad thing is I might have been interested in the game if they hadn’t tried to co-opt the Soul Hackers name, but as it is now I haven’t played it and have no desire to check it out.
I think if any game were to become the third pillar id want it to be raidou,hes such a cool character and i think his games as action games have a lot of potential especially with modern hardware
It should have been Devil Survivor but they just stopped making those games even though the popularity kept increasing.
when you try to please everybody, you please nobody
I beat this game two months ago, and I forgot it existed
I too want a devil survivor three....... OR another strange journey ! I personally feel like strange journey is more smt then smt.
A Devil Survivor 3 would be a dream come true for me... I feel like Persona 5 Tactica is what we're getting instead of Devil Survivor 3 because Persona 5 has basically ruined ATLUS and the influx of Persona 5 fans aren't interested in playing anything that doesn't have "Persona" on the label.
@@vorpal22 late comment but I agree. The company actually is scared to experiment to create more compelling characters not based on done and dusted entry. Definitely a shell of their former boldness. Baroque and Catherine were some of the most memorable quirky gaming experiences for me and while those were garbage to today's standards perhaps, but it was great they tried to develop and publish unique games nonetheless.
Both SMT and Persona blew up on their third entries (with Nocturne and Persona 3). Let's wait for Soul Hackers 3 to pop off
Technicaly it is thrid Devil Summoner game in series (Devil Summoner -> Soul Hackers -> Raidou spin-offs -> Soul Hackers 2) :D
Honestly Soul Hackers 2 seems to embody the Simpsons clip of "I just think they're neat" when we know the Megaten Franchise is capable of so much more. There are some good aspects to this game that I feel are better handled than SMTV, namely the characters and story. But it does feel like it needed a bit of a bigger budget, more time in the oven and NONE of the Day 1 DLC bs that Atlus pulled. Hopefully Atlus learns their lesson from Soul Hackers 2, takes what worked from this game and apply it to a new SMT spin off and not dry out the well of mainline and Persona. But considering Persona 3 Reload is coming and we can clearly tell which project got the higher priority I may be preaching to people with tin ears but still. Who knows, maybe Soul Hackers 2 may pull a BioShock 2 and get a critical reevaluation in a few years and get upgraded to cult classic status or something?
I don't think we can blame the Day 1 DLC for SH2's sales (which weren't bad by ATLUS standards... it's just that P5 sold so well and had such general appeal that now anything ATLUS does looks bad compared to it)... ATLUS has been doing Day 1 DLC for ages now and while the fans have always grumbled about it (myself included), we're tolerated it because ATLUS games are good.
I have no doubt that ATLUS won't change their ways and we're still going to see Day 1 or preorder DLC for a long time to come, although it would be nice if they just stopped and released full games. I'm fine with stupid DLC like Catherine outfits and Persona 5 outfits and what not being Day 1 DLC, but whole plot segments that actually come on the cartridge or disc and we have to pay to unlock are just ATLUS shooting themselves in the foot again, and probably part of the reason why the ATLUS community is incredibly toxic compared to that of other predominantly JRPG companies.
I sincerely hope that you're right and SH2 gets some retouching... so many things about it were great, but that dungeon design was just so milquetoast that if they redesigned that, they could have a winner on their hands, and then hopefully we'd get a Soul Hackers 3. I don't see it happening, which is sad, because this is a franchise I would love to continue.
A Metacritic score of 74 isn't bad, though. I know people love to think that
As someone who played TMS#FE, I saw a lot of its DNA in the dungeon gameplay and was there for it. I wanted them to take the ideas they came up with for a silly semi-crossover and bring them closer to mainline. And I think the changes from the patch speak to something I noticed while playing before it (I didn't replay after): they messed up some numbers on the back end.
Maybe it was the encounter rate. Maybe it was the default movement speed. Maybe it was the intensity of the ambushes. Maybe it was the lack of mechanically significant dungeon gimmicks. Whatever it was, SH2 on the basic level didn't feel like TMS, in a bad way. Something made the encounters be annoying rather than engaging.
And maybe the patch fixed it, but I don't know that because I finished the game just before that patch came out, and the game's launch state didn't leave me wishing to replay it.
Between lack of visual variety, bland dungeon design and some subtle balancing issues, SH2 really did feel like a budget title when I could hold it up against TMS, the actual budget title, and find it wanting.
Had to pause the video 4 mins in to say I’m loving the commentary so far, so glad I saved this to watch later
I remember the only thing I hated was the damned map being useless because it it was impossible to control it lol.
I heard the gameplay was not very fun, plus the switch is my console of choice, so I ended up just ignoring SH2 entirely
I'm trying not to buy any more games for a good while, so even if it had made its way to Switch I probably wouldn't have bought it, but it *would* at least end up on my eShop wishlist cause it at least looks interesting without any other context.
@@Cuprite1024it wouldn’t be worth $60 anyways
Nice video!! Honestly, I really thought SH 2 was gonna be ATLUS’ third pillar back in summer of 2022…..but instead what we got was a decent game. As “new” (not so new anymore 😅) ATLUS I had high expectations and this game is decent. Hopefully Metaphor RE becomes the 3rd pillar 😤😤🤣
I haven't played SH2 yet but about that update where they added a Dash feature, I would like to think that was added because of complaints from players and that Atlus was forced to add it in needing to satisfy the players. Another game I would like to mention was that there's an MC that traversed in dungeons in a very similar speed as Ringo, it was in Tokyo Mirage Sessions. The game never had a Dash feature to make the MC go faster and that's the thing, I never traversed within the the game's dungeons wishing there was a Dash feature, because if you think about it, the red and purple ghost/foes that can chase you around aren't going any faster than your MC and 99% of the time, you'll still be able to out run them and avoid battle if you want.
I can see the reason why people want a Dash feature in SH2 was probably because the dungeon designs themselves apparently don't have much to them design wise and so it becomes boring that players just want to get the dungeons done and over with. That's my thought on the matter despite not having played SH2.
I very enjoyed this game! Even tho i waited the speed up update to play it.
I'm not worried about other titles from Atlus.
I agree with what you said in your video.
The only con to sl2 was its bland dungeons.
My problem with game was day one dlc. 1 music track for all combat. Same color matrix for all three characters. No cosmetics unlocks ingame, only by paying money. Even tho the slot for customisation was right there all the time
I'm waitingfor Soul Hackers 2 Royal Edition.
Honestly I was hoping for something digital devil saga related
This would have been huge on Vita. Which is where I think it might have been made for, but adapted to console, after Persona 5, that's rough buddy.
I like the characters! At some point I'll take it for a proper spin but there's too many better games coming out this year. I don't even own AC6 yet :(
I just think it's baffling they thought doing the bare minimum video game experience would net them a "Third Pillar". Just straight up crazy talk.
You complained too much about sprint button. Its a GOOD thing that they added it.
what i wan't to know is why did they strip the SMT from the tittles? i only played PS2 SMTs and maybe 1 or 2 from ps1, never touched an SMT from nintendo or whatsoever. I would have bought and played this game on release if i knew, i'll get it from gamepass now though
I loved this game just finished a new game plus run
to me this game has been a roller coaster, when it was first anounced i was super hyped, i love the Devil Summoner series, then i saw the reveal and i was dissapointed by how demons and summoners worked, then i gave the game a chance and i loved the cast and characters, i actually really like it's style, the NPCs look cool and i love the Neon Colors, i prefer Soul Hackers 1 but i don't hate this new style, i agree SH1's retro Cyber Punk might be a bit of a niche nowdays but i dislike how they decided to use the same dynamic music for all of the game dungeons, but then again the story IS a Devil Summoner game, it's about a mistery and the Kuzunoha returned and i love it... so yeah, i have mixed feelings about the game, very mixed, like i just can't decide if im happy that this game exist.
I see the user review scores and honestly a 7 out of 10 seem fair, i've played 7/10 games, some of my favs among them, and this feels around the same level of polish, the problem is although they are the same on terms of quality, im not madly in love with SH2 like with those other games, it would have depressed me if it had been given a 5/10, because it's not a bad game and i don't want Devil Summoner to end like this, but i would be offended if it had been shilled to anything over 8, i would have sad to live in a world where this game became the new standard of what the Mega Ten spin-offs are because of fans eating it right up to "support the franchise" like what Pokemon fans do.
I don't want this game to crash and burn, i don't want it to be remembered as a failure, i want it to be known as decent yet flawed JRPG that while a rough start, it open the way for more, like maybe a SH3 using all they learned from this, i want Atlus to get the message that we do want more Spin-Offs, but to know this was a missguided attempt.
Also this game was made by the team that made TMS and it's like someone on that team is heavily insisting that the old games were too hard and that their complexity was a problem, i hope they finally get the message that trying to simplify Mega Ten doesn't work, that Persona's One More system and party members with fixed Personas were already simple enough (that i kind of hate them) and that they shouldn't be afraid of something like the Press Turn, that we want a more adult Spin Off series, not only story-wise, but gameplay wise, bring back the Rows, allow me to heaviy customize my GUMP, talk to demons, maybe let me have up to 2 summoners out, each in charge of 1-2 demons like making them mini parties (if one Summoner get's KO'd so does his demons), maybe make it parcially real time like the Raidou games, have this layer of runing around and avoiding damage while trying to summon demons from my GUMP because they got Mudo'ed by a rival Summoner or maybe im the one chazing him while he tries to summon more adds, idk... just stop doing this patronizing shit of removing mechanics to make it simpler.
Doesn't seem like they gave it the budget to "become the third Pillar" in the first place. its ok tho because Sega allocated that money to the most by the numbers generic hero shooter possible.
I agree, needed a bigger budget and more development time.
Yes, I hope so as well
I fear that Persona 5 success is so big Atlus is scared of making something different.
As someone who bough the switch to play smt 5 (with i have almost 100 hours in) im so disapointed that atlus never tried to captalize in the platform after it with the exeption of the persona ports