Man, thanks for posting this. So much insight into managing a hum. Having your channel really provides a repository of information about these magical and elusive hunks of metal. I watch your channel like some people watch football.❤😂
Dude, you are KILLING IT with these videos!! Any drummer not watching yet, will be. In 2yrs time you will be one of the top channels for drummers, cymbal enthusiasts, and anyone else interested in percussion. Great job, wow!!!👍
WTH!!!.....and with NO cutting or lathing. You pretty much eliminated the honnng honnng!, and left it with beautiful clear tone and definition!. So it's really "massaging and compressing" the metal. THIS, is craft! 😉👍
Unbelievably - I had a look at a new-ish Meinl Sand Ride that I got in the cheap a while ago - always felt that this cymbal sounded weird in a bad way (explaining the low price point). After watching this video I played it & looked at it and SURE ENOUGH… there is a dip adjacent to the bell!! I put a moongel on it in various places and was able to change the sound drastically as a function of its placement relative to the dip zone. So - wow - I am super impressed with your deep knowledge…
Great mod! I’m definitely sending you some ailing cymbals. I have an amazing old 22 that sounds great live but I can’t bring it into the studio because the hum drives the engineers crazy. Yet all I get is compliments when people hear it live.
I picked up a Zildjian Z Power Ride cheaply of late and found out that it had a serious howling overtone that would sing well beyond the fundamental and persist beyond any other tone. Until considering the notion of doing anything permanent about it, I was able to locate the area of the cymbal that was responsible and applied a couple of padded 1/8" thick 3/8" circumference rare earth magnets the completely knocked out the racket. I basically dampened areas of the cymbal with my fingers to see what sections made what part of the tone and went from there. Nothing fancy, just hardware store items and some felt. Not a fix, but certainly some stitching to hold things together until the cymbal can be properly healed. After watching your video, I'll spend some time trying to figure out exactly what is going on, whether a profile/deformation issue or something beyond my capabilities to quantify.
I am amazed how a quality cymbal sounds in note, no matter what chord/note is played. I was told a long time ago that, it was due to a phenomenon called "sympathetic overtones". What have you been told ? 🤔
Yeah sympathetic overtones is a good way of putting it. There's so many frequencies resonating in a cymbals sound and, to me, a good one has those frequencies humming together in a cohesive way (ie. no individual hums poke out far above the rest)
It's a bummer that the pitch has to go up, but at least the hum is gone. I mentioned in another video of yours that I have an old K that has a hum (more like a howl). I assume the problem area is the somewhat misshapen bell, but I'm not a cymbal smith. I just put some gaff tape on the underside of the bell and on the transition. The hum is still audible to me, but it's not as obvious as it was before. I have three other cymbals that all have what I would consider a slight bit of hum (perhaps I'm being too picky with a couple of them) - an Istanbul Agop hi-hat top cymbal, a Zildjian splash, and believe it or not, a Craig Lauritsen custom crash/ride cymbal. I don't worry about them too much - the hi-hat hum is only audible when I hit the cymbal by itself, the splash hum is pretty quiet, and the CL hum is low-pitched and only comes out when crashed a certain way - but just knowing they're there is a bit annoying nonetheless. If I could stand to be without them for a length of time, I'd send them to you.
Yeah, the tape trick can work great to help bring the hums down in the overall mix! To me, as long as the main playing area is relatively clean sounding it's ok to have some hums and tones going on.
I have a 10" splash that has a nice quick attack and the crash sustain is short but then it "hums" like a gong for 20 seconds at least. Drum mics pic it up and it sounds bad. Going to hammer the bottom 1" from the edge to the bell and see where my tension lands.
these vids are great! Q: Would you be able to make 2 very different cymbals and play a demo of each as you make them, then check in on each one after they rest for a day or two, then a week, then a month, then 3 mos, then every 3-6-12 months thereafter? Would be interesting to see how each cymbal changes over time, as well as if they change consistently together, or if the changes diverge from one to the other! Suggestion: Take /make some sort of stiff shape that mimics the present shape of the cymbal and then show the new proposed shaping, and how its impacted. Cymbal shapes are hard to see in vids, and your palm profiles are just ok. Maybe flexible metal or plastic that mimics pipecleaners?
Thanks! I think that's a great idea. I'm working on doing a kind of animation for the profile shapes. That's gonna be a much better way of showing the shapes in the future. The camera has a really hard time catching the profiles. Also a resting video like that would be amazing! I'll see about working that into my video schedule. Thanks!
@@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums would paper mache work? You could mimic the entire top of the cymbal & then slice it to show profiles. Or show a strip before and after shaping cymbals? May use colors on the paper mache to highlight things?
Hello. I have a 20 inch ride from Zildjian. I really dont like the sound of it, it literally sounds like a church bell producing a sound and vibes that never end. What kind of hack do you recommend me for getting a better sound?
The most beautiful of all profiles is the paiste 602s. Hums and all other overtones ate all associated from the metallurgy stage at recipe and at the manipulation of the grain of the cymbal. Rides have to be consistent with their thickness, hence theflate rides a quiet and sound muted because there's no bell and there's no meat at the mounting hole. Hums come from edges being too thin.
@@stelioscapetanakis9148 I think that’s a bit reductionist, but I understand your point. I would say “hums” can come from a variety of different sources depending on how a cymbal is structured. Thin edges, thick edges, tall profiles, un-balanced tension, thin bells, etc can all cause certain tones or “hums” to jump out in the overall mix of a cymbal. Also these tones definitely come from the cold-forming part of the cymbal-making process and not just the casting. Casting can make a different but not near as much as the shaping does.
Yeah it definitely can help. It probably has a tall profile which can lend to that loud volume. There's no way to lower it down, but there are things I can do to tame it and mellow it out. I've got a mod form on the website for this kind of thing: reveriedrums.com/shop/p/cymbal-modification
just getting into hammering my own cymbals and i have a basic question: due to the shape of the cymbal, it seems much easier to hammer the underside with a solid hit on the anvil compared to the top side, where the bow of the cymbal makes it tricky to get the cymbal firmly on the anvil. Any advice for getting a solid hit every time?
It's really important to have a round anvil with a bevelled edge so you can hammer the top with good contact. I've probably spent collectively about 10 hrs shaping and reshaping my anvil over the years so I have good contact.
It's a little more complicated than that. Thin cymbals can be tuned really well and still have those "whisle-y" tones just due to the nature of thinner cymbals. There's a point where thin cymbals become too thin and tinny sounding.
@@Reverie_Cymbals_Drumsinteresting. I’ve had a standard Zildjian K ride which was not the thinnest thing but it also had these tones. Not just a tinny, overly bright sound but also resonant frequencies that really jump out, even visually on a spectrum analyser. I even bring a mic when trying a cymbal before purchase cause these whistles sometimes get obscured to the naked ear in the high end at full volume.
Hum... I have a modern K (Pre Aged Dry Light Ride) It has a hum that is the wrong tone. Just like a 1/2 tone off. It sounds great by it's self!!! But when I play with musicians it sounds bad. I have tried all kinds of tapeing, and even put stuff on it to rattle and cover the hum. it never works...
Hi Tim! Thanks so much for the awesome idea and your wonderful workmanship. I have a set of meinl byzance medium (but heavy) Hihat cymbals that somejow little wobbled so they do not fit flat enough but have some visible(2mm) gap so I have to press tje top cymbal down to make tight sound and eventually it sounds too dead because i have to press them down too much..is it possible to fix this problem??
Man, thanks for posting this. So much insight into managing a hum. Having your channel really provides a repository of information about these magical and elusive hunks of metal. I watch your channel like some people watch football.❤😂
Thank you John!
Me too, this has become my favorite channel
This is thoroughly fascinating.
Dude, you are KILLING IT with these videos!! Any drummer not watching yet, will be. In 2yrs time you will be one of the top channels for drummers, cymbal enthusiasts, and anyone else interested in percussion.
Great job, wow!!!👍
Wow! Thank you! I really enjoy making these. I probably have 100 ideas I haven’t fully explored yet. Really appreciate you following along!
Agreed
Utterly amazing how the overall sound of the cymbal was improved!!
Tim, you truly know the ins and outs of cymbals. You know your stuff!
Thanks Brent!
From a beast to a beauty! You totally saved that cymbal and I couldn’t be more impressed.
Thanks!
You really did fix that hum! I'm impressed, another great job, Timothy. Thank you, look forward to your next post.
Thank you Joanne!
Some of the best content of the whole internet. Thanks for sharing the knowledge.
Thank you for watching!
That was very impressive, wonderful how the issue was identified and the sound transformed.
I've made some comments in the past about your mods of Spizz and old K's, but this is really good. Excellent job, and very informative. Thank you..
Thank you!
This is pure wizardry my friend... The "hum" literally disappeared like it was never even there... Bravo.
Ah thanks! Yeah this one worked out!
WTH!!!.....and with NO cutting or lathing. You pretty much eliminated the honnng honnng!, and left it with beautiful clear tone and definition!. So it's really "massaging and compressing" the metal. THIS, is craft! 😉👍
Thank you!
Nice improvement, great information, fascinating, thank you
Unbelievably - I had a look at a new-ish Meinl Sand Ride that I got in the cheap a while ago - always felt that this cymbal sounded weird in a bad way (explaining the low price point). After watching this video I played it & looked at it and SURE ENOUGH… there is a dip adjacent to the bell!! I put a moongel on it in various places and was able to change the sound drastically as a function of its placement relative to the dip zone. So - wow - I am super impressed with your deep knowledge…
Wow! So glad that this helped! Sometime tape or a moon gel can really help as a temporary solution.
Great mod! I’m definitely sending you some ailing cymbals.
I have an amazing old 22 that sounds great live but I can’t bring it into the studio because the hum drives the engineers crazy. Yet all I get is compliments when people hear it live.
Challenge accepted! Haha
To my ear, that's an excellent mod!
Well done! And thank you for your explanations. 😃
Thanks!
What an excellent channel I stumbled upon!
Thanks!
I picked up a Zildjian Z Power Ride cheaply of late and found out that it had a serious howling overtone that would sing well beyond the fundamental and persist beyond any other tone. Until considering the notion of doing anything permanent about it, I was able to locate the area of the cymbal that was responsible and applied a couple of padded 1/8" thick 3/8" circumference rare earth magnets the completely knocked out the racket. I basically dampened areas of the cymbal with my fingers to see what sections made what part of the tone and went from there. Nothing fancy, just hardware store items and some felt. Not a fix, but certainly some stitching to hold things together until the cymbal can be properly healed. After watching your video, I'll spend some time trying to figure out exactly what is going on, whether a profile/deformation issue or something beyond my capabilities to quantify.
Hey Jim! That’s a very interesting way of dealing with it! Also, super valid! Sometimes a couple pieces of tape can have a similar effect.
Thank you! I thought I just had to accept the humm as part of the overtones.
Magic once again bro!
I am amazed how a quality cymbal sounds in note, no matter what chord/note is played.
I was told a long time ago that, it was due to a phenomenon called "sympathetic overtones". What have you been told ? 🤔
Yeah sympathetic overtones is a good way of putting it. There's so many frequencies resonating in a cymbals sound and, to me, a good one has those frequencies humming together in a cohesive way (ie. no individual hums poke out far above the rest)
It's a bummer that the pitch has to go up, but at least the hum is gone. I mentioned in another video of yours that I have an old K that has a hum (more like a howl). I assume the problem area is the somewhat misshapen bell, but I'm not a cymbal smith. I just put some gaff tape on the underside of the bell and on the transition. The hum is still audible to me, but it's not as obvious as it was before. I have three other cymbals that all have what I would consider a slight bit of hum (perhaps I'm being too picky with a couple of them) - an Istanbul Agop hi-hat top cymbal, a Zildjian splash, and believe it or not, a Craig Lauritsen custom crash/ride cymbal. I don't worry about them too much - the hi-hat hum is only audible when I hit the cymbal by itself, the splash hum is pretty quiet, and the CL hum is low-pitched and only comes out when crashed a certain way - but just knowing they're there is a bit annoying nonetheless. If I could stand to be without them for a length of time, I'd send them to you.
Yeah, the tape trick can work great to help bring the hums down in the overall mix! To me, as long as the main playing area is relatively clean sounding it's ok to have some hums and tones going on.
before and after, wow!
Thank you!
Very teachable❤❤
I have a 10" splash that has a nice quick attack and the crash sustain is short but then it "hums" like a gong for 20 seconds at least. Drum mics pic it up and it sounds bad. Going to hammer the bottom 1" from the edge to the bell and see where my tension lands.
Good luck!
these vids are great!
Q: Would you be able to make 2 very different cymbals and play a demo of each as you make them, then check in on each one after they rest for a day or two, then a week, then a month, then 3 mos, then every 3-6-12 months thereafter?
Would be interesting to see how each cymbal changes over time, as well as if they change consistently together, or if the changes diverge from one to the other!
Suggestion: Take /make some sort of stiff shape that mimics the present shape of the cymbal and then show the new proposed shaping, and how its impacted. Cymbal shapes are hard to see in vids, and your palm profiles are just ok. Maybe flexible metal or plastic that mimics pipecleaners?
Thanks! I think that's a great idea. I'm working on doing a kind of animation for the profile shapes. That's gonna be a much better way of showing the shapes in the future. The camera has a really hard time catching the profiles. Also a resting video like that would be amazing! I'll see about working that into my video schedule. Thanks!
@@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums would paper mache work? You could mimic the entire top of the cymbal & then slice it to show profiles. Or show a strip before and after shaping cymbals? May use colors on the paper mache to highlight things?
@@whichfulthinking That's not a bad idea. I don't know how to use that stuff at all but I can give it a shot!
Hello. I have a 20 inch ride from Zildjian. I really dont like the sound of it, it literally sounds like a church bell producing a sound and vibes that never end. What kind of hack do you recommend me for getting a better sound?
You'd probably need to send it to an experienced cymbalsmith who could hammer or lathe it. That or just sell it.
The most beautiful of all profiles is the paiste 602s.
Hums and all other overtones ate all associated from the metallurgy stage at recipe and at the manipulation of the grain of the cymbal.
Rides have to be consistent with their thickness, hence theflate rides a quiet and sound muted because there's no bell and there's no meat at the mounting hole.
Hums come from edges being too thin.
@@stelioscapetanakis9148 I think that’s a bit reductionist, but I understand your point. I would say “hums” can come from a variety of different sources depending on how a cymbal is structured. Thin edges, thick edges, tall profiles, un-balanced tension, thin bells, etc can all cause certain tones or “hums” to jump out in the overall mix of a cymbal. Also these tones definitely come from the cold-forming part of the cymbal-making process and not just the casting. Casting can make a different but not near as much as the shaping does.
I have a first gen Dry Complex thin that’s just too loud. Could this tone it down?
Yeah it definitely can help. It probably has a tall profile which can lend to that loud volume. There's no way to lower it down, but there are things I can do to tame it and mellow it out. I've got a mod form on the website for this kind of thing: reveriedrums.com/shop/p/cymbal-modification
Hello question is it posible to drop the pitch on a ride's bell? Im talking about a z custom megabell ride
Yeah, lathing weight off the bell would lower the pitch.
That was good.
just getting into hammering my own cymbals and i have a basic question: due to the shape of the cymbal, it seems much easier to hammer the underside with a solid hit on the anvil compared to the top side, where the bow of the cymbal makes it tricky to get the cymbal firmly on the anvil. Any advice for getting a solid hit every time?
It's really important to have a round anvil with a bevelled edge so you can hammer the top with good contact. I've probably spent collectively about 10 hrs shaping and reshaping my anvil over the years so I have good contact.
One thing that drives me crazy are the higher whistles tones you get on bright thin cymbals. Does this have the same cause?
It's a little more complicated than that. Thin cymbals can be tuned really well and still have those "whisle-y" tones just due to the nature of thinner cymbals. There's a point where thin cymbals become too thin and tinny sounding.
@@Reverie_Cymbals_Drumsinteresting. I’ve had a standard Zildjian K ride which was not the thinnest thing but it also had these tones. Not just a tinny, overly bright sound but also resonant frequencies that really jump out, even visually on a spectrum analyser. I even bring a mic when trying a cymbal before purchase cause these whistles sometimes get obscured to the naked ear in the high end at full volume.
What size is the motor you use??
It’s a 1.5 HP AC motor that runs at 1750rpm. The computer allows me to choose the rpm I want for the particular project I’m doing.
100% improvement
Crs and cympad helps some
Hard to believe it could change the sound of the cymbal to that degree.
Hum...
I have a modern K (Pre Aged Dry Light Ride) It has a hum that is the wrong tone. Just like a 1/2 tone off. It sounds great by it's self!!! But when I play with musicians it sounds bad. I have tried all kinds of tapeing, and even put stuff on it to rattle and cover the hum. it never works...
I modify cymbals all time to fix issues like this! Visit my website for more info: reveriedrums.com/shop/mod-cymbals
That's a pretty thin one, yes?. the crash is very short, which is a good thing 😉👍
Yeah! It's around 1850g at 20"
I want to be a cymbal smith!
It's so much fun!
You know why it hums don't you....
(wait for it)
(wait for it)...
Because it doesn't know the WORDS!
Too many words
fair enough
Well done
Hi Tim! Thanks so much for the awesome idea and your wonderful workmanship.
I have a set of meinl byzance medium (but heavy) Hihat cymbals that somejow little wobbled so they do not fit flat enough but have some visible(2mm) gap so I have to press tje top cymbal down to make tight sound and eventually it sounds too dead because i have to press them down too much..is it possible to fix this problem??
It depends, but most of the time that's a fairly simple fix using some hammering and lathing techniques!
Thanks. I will carefully try it with soft rubber hammer..