Best of Series: The New Science of Resilience || George Bonnano

This episode is part of The Psychology Podcast's "Best of Series", where we highlight some of the most exciting, enthralling, and enlightening episodes from our archives.
Dr. George Bonanno is professor of psychology, chair of the department of counseling in clinical psychology, and director of the Loss, Trauma, and Emotion Lab at Teachers College Columbia University. He’s the author of The Other Side of Sadness and The End of Trauma.
In this episode, I talk to George Bonanno about trauma and resiliency. We start off by discussing what people get wrong about trauma and how this led to the invention of the PTSD diagnosis. George defines what resilience is, how it’s different from growth, and its paradoxical correlation to individual differences. Finally, he elaborates on how the flexibility mindset and flexibility sequence helps us get through personal traumatic events or global tragedies like 9/11 or the COVID-19 pandemic.
Website: www.tc.columbia.edu/LTElab/
Twitter: @giorgiobee
Topics
00:01:41 Jerome L. Singer’s influence on George
00:05:43 Society’s skewed view of trauma
00:08:16 Explaining the PTSD diagnosis
00:10:40 People are more resilient than you think
00:15:37 Resilience VS growth
00:20:04 The resilience paradox
00:25:57 The flexibility mindset
00:31:11 The flexibility sequence
00:36:04 How to be more flexible
00:39:24 Goal-directed self-talk
00:49:16 The resilience blind spot
00:56:04 We’ll overcome the COVID-19 pandemic
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[@dwschoolmoves]

As an educator and author, I align with your perspective on resilience. Focusing on resilience and developing a flexibility mindset is a way to move the educational system forward. In my recent book, I discuss an evolving mindset, rather than the black and white duality of fixed and growth mindsets. I'm thinking about how your flexibility mindset intersects with an evolving mindset. I'd love to interview you for my education community. They would find your research compelling. I just ordered your book and can't wait to read more. Thanks Scott for having George on your podcast. Very informative, enlightening, and hopeful!

[@elissajaguar]

I would love to be able to hear a discussion about the SPECT scans which show the triangle of Post Traumatic Stress Injury in the brain and post traumatic growth/resilience are connected. Since we can see the PTSI visually, we can measure it objectively, and therefore can measure recovery/repair objectively.

[@eqapo]

I really appreciate the lived connection between 9/11 and covid

[@DJSTOEK]

Thank you!

[@CreativeArtandEnergy]

I am curious how you are going to summarize complex trauma, especially comorbidity. There is resilience and there is being born under certain circumstances.

[@Gypsy218]

I’m thinking one possibility is that resiliency is possibly too broad, could be better defined. Maybe involve some behaviors resilient people engage in. Also, having gone through a traumatic event this past year it became clear to me that a certain amount of loss and grief is involved. It’s also something that changes over time as was said. At the beginning you’re going to feel threatened. A clinician might say you need to feel your feelings at this point and not only deal with it cognitively. The ability to see it as a challenge comes later and if you have some self efficacy for dealing with these kind of problems you might feel optimistic snd able to deal with it. Since problems can occur in different domains you might not feel you’re very skilled in that area or you have no experience in that area e.g. health vs relationship problems. I know that a general measure of locus of control and self efficacy doesn’t predict performance as well as more specific measures. Obviously it’s complex and I’m sure will keep evolving like the stress and coping literature. Great podcast, made me want to get back to doing research. Love your podcast Scott!