Yooo the whole custom Tournament ya set up Toriyama style got me soo invested. Id love a fan animation based on or close to it cause thats a great elseworld story
I won't lie, if this little what if could become an actual thing, i'd totally support it. This practically makes a complete arc, separated from the Buu arc, while still building up to it in a more compelling way. This topic came out tremendously well, and i enjoyed it way more than i thought
If Toriyama actually committed to the storyline of Gohan in High School, it could have been a nice mini arc before this tournament arc, with a more concise Boo arc to round the series out
A tip for anyone wanting to make their own brackets: work backwards. Decide what you want the final match to be, what the biggest fight will be, the fight you want the whole tournament to be building towards. Then decide what's the next biggest fight for each of those competitors. Repeat as many times as necessary. It will be a lot easier than trying to sort 16 fighters into eight brackets.
That's usually the tip for most writers. "Start at the end so you know where you're going." Doesn't always work, but it does more often than it doesn't.
If we go by conventional power-scaling, the most fighters are stronger/competitive against the Saiyans without SSJ: Picollo, Kaioshin, Android 18, Kibito, Krillin, Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Trunks, Goten, Videl, Mr Satan, Yamu, Killa, Pintar, Spopovich, Jewel If we go by the new-age scaling where narratively it's The Saiyan Show, and their Base Power is basically equal to SSJ, things look very different: Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Kaioshin, Picollo, Kibito, Android 18, Trunks, Goten, Krillin, Videl, Mr Satan, Yamu, Spopovich, Killa, Pintar, Jewel.
Not sure if anyone noticed but Totally Not Mark really botched this video. The matchups he conducted actually did not fit the starting lineup he made. Just a lack of attention to detail, I suppose. Anyways, if anyone wants to know of a better scenario, here it is. First they draw lots with Mr Satan going first and picking up Ball 1, and claiming nothing but First Place for the champ. Then everyone else randomly chooses lots and the lineup ends like this: Mr Satan, Videl, Gohan, Krillin, Yamu, Shin, Mighty Mask, Goku, Vegeta, Spopovich, Jewel, Android 18, Kibito, Pintar, Killah, and lastly Picollo. First battle goes similar to described. Mr Satan goes all out but is matched by Videl. They scrum and he tells her to forfeit, she yells never. Then Mr Satan says he is about to do a special attack and it looks like a Kameha. Then he grabs his stomach, rolls on the floor, and gives up. Then claims he can't hurt his daughter to keep his reputation. Everyone cringes. Gohan vs Krillin, it's a close fight. Krillin almost gives up but gets motivation from Maron. They go back in memory to Nappa fight, Namek saga, Frieza fight, and Cell saga. It's a good call back. Gohan narrowly wins but Krillin is proud of his efforts. Yamu was the previous Second Place, and he is effortlessly beaten by Shin. Goku picks up a weird aura from him, whilst it makes Picollo shake. They are unsure. Mighty Mask fights Goku, who doesn't know who he is. He hasn't properly sensed the energy of Goten and Trunks. Goku figures it out and coaches them into fighting together better. He is stunned with their potential. Vegeta yells at Goku, get serious we have a fight to make, Goku gets scared and ends the fight with a single kick. Vegeta matches with Spopovich. He ends it within 10 seconds. The crowd is angry at such a short fight, many made big bets against Vegeta. Android 18 fights Jewel next. He says she is not as pretty as him, and manages to cheat using a knife. Stabbing her has no effect so he gets scared and runs away, out of bounds. Kibito fights Pintar. He toys with him until Shin tells him to end it. This notifies Goku and Picollo to understand that Kibito is the underling and to take Shin seriously. Lastly Picollo faces off against Killah. Similar case happens with Picollo purposely putting on a show for the audience but winning easily. Next Rounds Start! Videl fights Gohan and it is a callback to the Goku vs Chichi fight. Gohan decides to end it with a ring out. Videl is happy. Goku fights Shin. He can't seem to get a hit in. In many instances Goku almost loses due to Shin's magic. Shin and Goku talk telepathically. With Shin saying he will tell him the secret if Goku explains himself and why he isn't using his whole potential. Goku says he promised not to transform and Shin explains he is the New Kaioshin, or the God of Creation, aka Universe's Overseer. Shin almost wins again, but everyone gets surprised when Goku wins by a ring out as he uses Kaioken x20. Krillin gets angry at Goku saying he promised not to cheat. Next match is Vegeta vs Android 18. This is a callback. Vegeta goes all-out to get the quick victory but 18 is just too fast, strong, and sturdy. She toys with him but he doesn't give up. She says he will eventually tire out, so it's futile. Then Vegeta manages to punch her which knocks her out to faint. Nobody notices besides Goku, Shin, and Picollo.... but Vegeta has mastery over Super Saiyan and he managed to transform in the last second before striking her down. Krillin manages to catch her as she falls. Shin decides to heal her. Last match in this round is Picollo vs Kibito. They slowly progress the battle as it heats up. Picollo takes off his weights and Shin decides to lend some power to Kibito. Everyone is amazed. Kibito manages to put a mortal wound on Picollo. But Picollo shows him that he can regenerate his legs. And then he ends the battle after that as victor. Next round. Gohan vs Goku Picollo vs Vegeta Gohan vs Goku goes as expected. Goku coaches Gohan and tells him to refine his skills and improve his power. He asks Gohan to turn to Super Saiyan 2, which he can't. After enough sparring and coaching Gohan struggles to turn SS2. Then in the shortest glimpse Goku knocks him down to the arena as a SS2. As Gohan tries to stand up, Goku tells him he is proud of him, and walks away losing from a ring out. Everyone is shocked. Vegeta is furious. It's an ode to the Roshi versus Tien match. Vegeta vs Picollo. This was a battle long time coming. Picollo takes off his weights, and Vegeta cracks his joints. Both go all out from the start. And there is an epic dialogue, and masterful choreography. Eventually Vegeta heads down, and says he gives up. This time Goku is very angry. But there is two people who understood very well: Base Vegeta is too weak against Picollo, but if he transforms to SS2 then Picollo is too weak against Vegeta. Since Goku is no longer in the tournament, Vegeta doesn't care. The presenter then says it is the Grand Finale. Gohan versus Picollo. It is an epic fight, with both powering up to their maximum. After a long and epic fight, Picollo emerges as the 24th Tenkaichi Winner. It's a callback to the end of Dragon Ball, and very fitting as the protector of Earth is now Picollo (fused with Kami). In a spiritual way, the torch is passed on. Gohan can focus on his work/studies and building a family. Goku and Vegeta are more powerful but they deal with more Galaxy/Universal threats. ....so how is that for an tournament saga??
I just realized this but trunks and goten joining together as one as mighty mask is an epic foreshadowing of them fusing later in the saga. Has anyone else noticed this???
My favorite part of this video is that, unlike other "what if" videos, mark knows these characters inside and out. I love the little quirks like Krillin crackin an awkward smile after he loses and goku not realizing his ball is the last one. He keeps everything so in character. Little details show Mark's love and knowledge for these characters.
@@MaxiemumKarnage my favorite thing about masakox is "his what if nappa turned good" series, simply because he voices nappa in dbza. His nappa voice is honestly my head cannon
@@spirttomb yeah masako only ever voiced gohan, goku, roshi for the first 2 seasons, and maybe an odd background character or two. He never voiced Nappa.
I've always felt that the fact that Piccolo could sense Shin's energy as a sign that Piccolo has latent divine ki. Beerus states that only someone with divine ki can sense divine ki. This might also be what the Orange Piccolo form is.
You understand Toriyama's writing and characters so well. The rematches and comedy just fit so well, Videl vs Satan is such a funny and oddly wholesome idea
That hypothetical tournament was a much, MUUUUUCH better set-up for the Babidi/Buu saga stuff than what we originally got, and the actual tournament we got in the manga/anime wasnt really bad to start with. Impressive work.
For some reason, I always loved seeing the normal human’s reactions to the group’s enormous strength. It’s like they have no idea of the power they’re witnessing. Especially the referee guy, since he’s been there from the beginning.
The referee is an important part of any tournament arc, he sets up the fighters while at the same time being an impartial hype man for both sides. The job of the referee is one of importance to the fight, and it’s one to be respected.
me too, except i don't like that they constantly make up reasons on why it's fake, even if that's accurate to what would happen in real life. i just want them (especially satan) to know just how minute they are compared to everyone
@@JakeStowers266 The issue is that Videl was NEVER like that, she was actually interested in fighting, long before she met Gohan due to being Mr Satan's daughter, it's literally in her blood and yet she just seems to stop for no good reason, her being a housewife isn't an issue because it's "unimportant" (which it actually IS from a story perspective), it's an issue because it's disrespectful to the character she was back in Z. The fact is she absolutely has been mistreated, the most respect she's gotten in recent years is being a playable character in DBFZ.
@@Stowerslemalu the point is that Videl never used to be like that. She literally got the Chi-Chi treatment. Both were fighters and had fierce appearances. and now they're literal housewives. only thing Videl has going for her compared to Chi-Chi... is not nagging about studies. that's a downgrade in my eyes, knowing how she used to be a great female fighter before. as comment above me^^ stated, being a housewife is not an issue in itself. it's the way they stripped her of personality and background. cant believe im about to say this but i even prefer her saiyaman/woman moments more than anything she's done post-buu arc look at Bulma for example. yeah she has more going for her when it comes to the show (that being Goku's childhood friend/tech nerd), but they still manage to give her moments that remind us of who she is, and has been from the beginning. if you need a prime example just look at the new Super Hero movie. a wish to make her ass bigger? yea that's fucking Bulma alright lmao. that selfish trait is something we're at least familiar with. like it or not, that's a character. Videl's just... a generic housewife now. no personality allowed lol i liked her and Chi-Chi way more pre-super honestly
@@Stowerslemalu That doesn't suit Videl as a character, Chi Chi only fought to get Goku's affection, that's not Videl, Videl is a prideful martial artist that loves the sport, I expect characters to retain what makes them that character not be unrecognisable
I really think, Toriyama wanting Gohan to take over aside, that Vegeta and Gohan could really have had an awesome dynamic post-Cell. Realizing that Vegeta's pride got his son killed, and Gohan's hubris got his father killed, the two could have made their way to one another by way of a mentor/pupil relationship. It would have been an interesting mirror to the last time Goku died and Gohan fell under the tutelage of Piccolo--one of Goku's past enemies and rivals. Realizing Gohan wasn't ready to take on the mantle of Earth's defender, Piccolo urges Vegeta to train Gohan as he would be the only one capable of doing so appropriately with Gohan's newly awakened power. Vegeta refuses but, after some goading from Piccolo, reluctantly takes on the role of mentor, putting the screws to Gohan in part to test his abilities in addition to working through his frustrations over the loss of his rivalry with Goku (another mirror/callback to the scene on Namek). Flash forward to the world tournament and we see Gohan using not Goku's abilities like the Kamehameha, but abilities and techniques that he learned from Goku's rivals like the Makankosappo or the Galik Gun (or even the Final Flash). Gohan being trained by Goku's past enemies is such a cool concept, but maybe that's just me.
This is such an awesome concept and I wish we could have seen it implemented, esp since I could see Gohan finding a way to combine his mentors techniques
That would be quite interesting, not just for Gohan, but for Vegeta as well. In the Manga while Vegeta trains with massive amounts of gravity, Goku trained with lots of magical tools, which was the thing that gave him the upper hand. But in your scenario Vegeta has someone Goku is missing, a very strong sparring partner. I think in that scenario Vegeta would be able to master the SSJ3 form (as a mortal human), and Gohan would do that as well. Buu would have no chance against the two.
This video gave me goosebumps. My biggest gripe with that saga was always that the tournament wasn't allowed to play out before getting into Buu, and I couldn't ask for a better way for it to play out then this. Amazing video by the TNM team!
If Goku and Vegeta had their fight during the tournament, Buu likely would have never been born. Vegeta wanted his rematch with Goku and kept getting interrupted by the shenanigans (Shinanigans in this case) of the Supreme Kai and Babidi. All he wanted was to fight Goku during those 24 hours and prove himself the strongest for his own sanity. Seeing Goku's power against Babidi's monster let Vegeta know in advance that he was going to lose his desired rematch which prompted him to allow Babidi to take him. But also he knew that the easiest way to force the fight is to "become evil". It's unclear how much of Babidi's influence led to Vegeta killing those people in the stadium and how much of that was just him being a prick. He shows clear remorse after his hate boner for Goku faded. Post nut Vegeta was all remorse.
dude imagine a version where we don't have to endure videl getting her ass brutally beaten for like 20 minutes straight and then it's just over and the russian guy gets immediately killed with no fanfare so you get no sense of closure whatsoever, that would've been cool
The biggest reason the last 1/3 of DBZ never resonated with me like DB or 2/3 of DBZ was the incompleteness of the tournament. We had 3 brilliant tourneys in DB, yet couldn't even follow through on the last DBZ one with a stacked lineup. Instead we get endless Majin Buu and Vegeta being a moron for the stretch run.
I know you said you don't intend to make more What Ifs, but your story-focused tournament made this video instantly become one of my all-time favorite Dragon Ball What Ifs. You have a unique voice, a unique style of storytelling, and I love how you used the monochromatic manga for your visuals.
Krillin: "wow piccolo, you're actually taking off the cloack and turban? For me? Piccolo: "you're underestimating yourself Krillin. A mistake I won't make. Not again."
18: "isn't your little 'no super saiyan pact' unfair against me. I'm a natural blonde and that for never beat me to begin with" Vegeta: "and you call me the boastful one. I'll show you strength that you'll never reach with metal parts alone"
Whats even crazier is how you ended it for the story version of the tournament. Because you have a tragedy happen after the Tournament ends it's reminiscent to how Tambourine killed Krillin to start the Demon King Piccolo saga. This really could've been a tournament arc with absolutely insane call backs.
Given this would end up being the end to DBZ? This only makes sense. Only have it diverge when it becomes clear that Kid Buu isn't interested in anything but destroying.
And theres a lot of cool callbacks too, the Goku Chi Chi/Gohan Videl parallel, Goku vs dead Grandpa Gohan in the Fortunteller Baba arc is reflected with Gohan vs dead Goku
Your Toriyama version of the tournament was so satisfying. The understanding of the characters you have is so on point it felt like someone was actually reviewing a piece of DBZ I'd never seen and found myself super invested in learning how it was going to go, excellent video idea
For some reason, I’m a big fan of Piccolo helping Krillin up after their match and showing respect to the human the entire way through. Krillin’s abilities are what gave Piccolo his first wake up call in the series during their first match, and the two have consistently fought side by side as near peers for decades at this point. Piccolo has seen Krillin grow as a fighter right alongside him, and though he’s much much stronger than Krillin is, Piccolo has seen Krillin go up against and surprise much stronger opponents time and time again, despite his own fear. Of course there’s respect there, Krillin isn’t just a fellow Z Fighter and warrior, but is also so far as Piccolo is concerned, a friend.
The Satan-Videl match would be appropriate, but what first came to mind was to actually bout with her some and selling her performance against him, in part to mitigate her from ramping up into injurious blows, but also to act as her hype-man, losing to her as a means of passing the torch, a champion who raised a champion, the next generation of hero raised up by the hero of the Earth himself! A pretty slick way to pass the buck while retaining the glories of his legacy.
Its kinda funny how Toriyama just forgot how strong Piccolo should be. It's implied Supreme Kai is above Piccolo but below Vegeta, but Piccolo was the only person who could fight the Androids at ALL before the time chamber, with the Time Chamber training I think it does make sense that the gap would've shrank a lot but I don’t think anyone in base would've been able to beat Piccolo.
I think it's just the Base Saiyans were stronger but then got retcon to no be in Battle Of Gods/Super, Vegeta was confident he could still win the tournament even knowing Piccolo and 18 were participating and that was after the no Super Saiyan Rule
It's not even that the Supreme Kai is weaker than the Saiyans that gets me, it's the fact that he's so spinless around them due to their strength, the only Saiyan that doesn't treat the Supreme Kai like a joke is Gohan, but that's more of a Gohan just being a well mannered guy than him being impressed by Supreme Kai's strength
@@rich355supreme Kai had piccolo shook so he should be above first form cell level maybe even post absorbing first form cell since i doubt piccolo dint get stronger after all those years
Gohan fighting Goku in the final round of a world tournament would have been a much more satisfying ending to the entire arc of Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. Completing the story of Gohan through Z and bringing back the feeling of Goku fighting through the tournaments in Dragon Ball as a young fighter.
@@jaymthesn5981 I wouldn't say that. The OG is so amazing, but Z is better. I still think that King Piccolo is by far the best villain of the series, and I can't help but marvel at how insanely cute kid Goku was I still love Z more as it is more complex. Of course, it's all started with King Piccolo. He is the one who raised up everything. The OG Dragon Ball is so underrated it's very sad.
Dude! SO nice seeing you return to original content and not just reviews. While I adore your reviews, this feels like a load of fresh air. Love this. Love YOU man! Can’t wait to see what’s next from ya, also can’t wait to see what you review next.
Man this was beautiful. I lowkey wish this is how the Buu Saga started, it wouldn't even be the first time something like this happened since the 2nd tournament led into King Piccolo. Also ngl I started to tear up a bit when you got to part of Goku telling Gohan he was proud of him.
If I was to change ONE thing with your layout of the tournament it would be that Hercule actually tries against his daughter for a part of the match before realizing that he is totally outclassed. We know he isn't a COMPLETE fraud, he just doesnt stack up to the crazy powerhouses of the Z group. I think he would be excited to fight against her but upon being put on the back foot against her look for a way out, and that would make Videl even more upset since he stopped trying and let her win instead of just letting her win immediately.
Ik why you think that But remember, that kinda teeny tiny bit of humility and self respect which Mr Satan has right now...had developed AFTER the things he went through...with our heroes...the whole Buu saga basically.... Here, this Mr Satan, is just a egoistic person...who has no amount of self consciousness...
I think you dont remember but me satan already knew that videl surpassed him by a lot to the point he was afraid of her strength when she was training at their mansion
This smells like a future Buu saga rewrite👀 I’m certainly interested in that! The whole tournament rewrite was great on its own, offering tons of fanservice for lovers of the series. It would’ve also been kinda cool of Vegeta fought Gohan in the finals too, as another rematch!
14:35 While I was listening to this I realized something. Gohan until Cell lost every fight he was in, every time he fought anyone for any reason until Cell someone else saved him and defeated his opponent for him. Goku won every fight with ease until Roshi took him down. No wonder they treat fighting so differently.
I don’t think that Mr. Satan would throw the match with Videl. I think he cares about her too much to do that. Instead, he would give her a fair match, knowing that he would lose anyways, And then, after he genuinely puts effort in and loses, he would say the whole thing about videl being the future, but instead of him saying it to save face, it’s real. He values and respects his daughter too much to treat his match with her like just another PR stunt.
I think Mr Satan after the Buu arc, totally . Mr satan here is still way too self absorbed and blinded by celebrity. He’s def a good man that loves his daughter , but I think it’s toward the end of the arc where he snaps out it and wouldn’t care about losing the tournament , given all he went through
THIS! I came here to post this the only change I'd make is Mr. Satan does fight but at the end gracefully gives up telling Vidal she's the future and he walks out of the ring mirroring Master Roshi and Tien.
right -- this could actually be a more satisfying way for satan to experience his character arc. at first he'd be fighting with all he can muster -- determined to beat her before he finds a way to bow out of the next match he may even be able to hit harder than she can, but she can fly to avoid ringouts, and he'd still be shocked at how hard she's hitting him. then in his internal monologue he'd realize that she's magnificent...... and for the first time in his life he'd truly and genuinely be proud of someone else. sure, he'd been proud before, but in an endearment way; this would be respecting her as an equal or even a superior. if his realization is quick enough he may even say to the interviewers that "she could teach me a thing or two!" ....and yeah it would probably be really funny if all the reporters are commenting on how humble the champ is being after letting her win, even if he's insisting that no, she genuinely actually won for real -- they'll ignore that, to his frustration 😂
No he would probably get his ass kicked easily….and then say to the crowd that he let his daughter win/couldn’t fight his own daughter. To which the crowd would cheer and everyone would believe him…. (Edit) That’s how it would happen in the show realistically speaking.
Frankly, Shin, Kibito and Goku had no business entering the “Strongest UNDER the Heavens” Tournament in the first place! Awesome video, I love the service to a pure power scaling perspective before getting in the trenches for a real analysis. Not sure how it would go, but I’d love to see more videos like this. Maybe you could take a spin at a JoJo Battle Tendency tournament, since if I recall, Part 2 was when Araki got that advice.
Your version of this tournament is beautiful! I love the idea of having Goku assume the mentor role for Gohan as Roshi once did for him. Wish we could have seen it play out this way!
I really like what you did here, you initially determined the tournament based off how most fans would, but you analyzed how Toriyama did it and determined the tournament based off of that. That really inspires me with my own writing.
I loved this vid. I’m super glad you tackled it from both perspectives too, I know the sheer power scaling angle isn’t as narratively interesting, but I still think it’s a fun topic as long as it’s not taken too seriously. And the way you did craft the narrative for the second part was super interesting and has me wishing the series actually went that way. Awesome video.
@@godspeedforce9371not really there things on how if they would keep the no transformation rule,Vegeta being confident he can win in base even tho piccolo and android 18 was participating,base Goku or Vegeta having to fight piccolo and android 18 with it being debatable they can beat him also supreme Kai might arguably win since he had piccolo shook
I’m going to back up Mark and disagree with him in this post. Goku and Vegeta were basically equal in their fight in this arc however, that was after Babidis Majin boost, and I don’t think that power boost only applied to his super Saiyan two form. I think it was a general boost that apply to every form he had so if we take that away, he’s gotta be a little bit weaker than Goku. As far as the Goku android 18 fight goes I think Mark raises some really great points, but the power level difference in my opinion is still too great. That being said, I do think that’s how Toriyama would’ve wrote it; main character plot armor wins.
I hate to admit how much I’ve thought about it, I always thought it would have been cool to see a tournament play out to its natural climax in the Z portion of the story.
I was reading the Buu saga and thought to myself, "hey, what if the final arc didn't have to be another villain-centric arc and could just be one last Tenkaichi Budokai". Genuinely, I didn't care that there wasn't a big bad to take down, since I already loved the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai, which didn't even have a villain. Vegeta and a few of the new guys introduced could be heels and I'd be fine.
I love a totally not mark one off. Hope you do more no matter the topic. Its hard to want to watch your reviews for stuff I haven’t seen or read myself. I’m still only half way through one piece but I’d really love to see the rest of the your review series.
I feel that a genuine match between Satan and Videl would have been neat, esp since we could seen a match between two mormal people. Satan still fakes and throws the match at the end, but he makes her work for it and Videl genuinely earns a win which is something she absolutely deserves
This was amazing. Thank you. Power scaling is something lots of people will find issues with in the first portion of your video, but the alternate story you created was masterful and would have been preferred to the one we got from the author. I know that it's 20/20 hindsight but it was still very impressive how you went about it. Really enjoyed the rematches as well as the teacher/pupil aspect to the finals. After 7 years, Gohan who would have had the edge in terms of raw power in a normal tournament in place of the cell games, is faced with his father and the legend himself who never ceased to train while Gohan gave up martial arts. TIme for Goku to impart a lesson to his son on this supposed "one day" back from the dead before leading into a exciting new villian arc with twists and turns. So many years I've wondered how such a tournament might have been written and thanks to you I have a more than sufficient answer of how I would have preferred it at least. Appreciate all that effort!
A Gohan vs Videl would definitely make my day. I hope it would go the way Goku vs Chi Chi did. Might be a fun Easter egg if Goku looks at Chi Chi and they both smile, remembering that tournament all those years ago
Mark, once again you deliver a retelling of an arc with so much depth and quality it might as well have been canon. I would really like if you were to make a continuation of this video, much in the vein of your Rewriting the Buu Saga video from years prior. Thanks so much.
Your writing is fantastic and your knowledge of story design is insightful. I love paying attention to how you structure your videos. Wanted you to know the work you put into your script doesn't go unnoticed!
The tournament we deserved. Thank you. I'm a huge DB fan and also a french mangaka deeply influenced by toriyama's art. I was always frustrated that this tournament didn't go to the end before Boo intervened. You just did this in the best way possible. I would kill (figuratively) to get a publisher with the own rights to get me the change to draw this alternative story. My... That would be such a blast. Thank you again for this nice moment 🙂
i dont think its accurate thou he tries to be but there is something he had forgot badly... He refers thath Vegeta has Trained alot, but actually when kakarot died vegeta lost his will to train anymore, he did start training just week before tournament as he heard that kakarot will be there too
I got so tired of Masako's what ifs when he milked them to death. Every now and then I check out his channel and see "what if Babidi was a girl part 13 " and just sigh. His Raditz what if was fun though.
@@sakugrohn3822i swear you see him and trunks training even before they know goku will be there. and someone tells gohan that vegeta has been teaching trunks the entire time since cell
@@L3monstaSpeaking as a Raditz fan, I… actually kind of hated it? More Raditz is fun, and all, but it felt he was becoming a black hole sucking up the plot, the characterization felt weird, some pretty big character arcs suffered as a result of the plot fixating on Raditz… which… wasn’t a decision that ever made sense. Raditz’s established character is so unusual for a Saiyan. He’s got bravado, sure, but not any real pride. He had no problem with demeaning himself by begging for mercy, and was not above using dirty tricks to get an upper hand.
I love your what if scenarios! You have proven yourself a knowledgeable enough source to where it’s not just a *shtick* and you put genuine thought and research into your topics. Would love more of these videos!
I haven't even finished watching this but I really do hope Akira Toriyama watches this video. I think it's one of the best things you've ever done. It condenses everything you've learned about storytelling, manga, Dragon Ball specifically, and Akira Toriyama's storytelling style specifically into a single video. Great job! Now I'm back to finishing the video.
N.B. I've finished watching now and I was not disappointed. Great job! I personally think Toriyama would have invented something new to incorporate into the story. He did so with every other tournament arc. You have captured the overarching storyline beautifully but something feels missing. What you've created is a nostalgic version of rematches with an overarching storyline. Toriyama would have injected something new, some new characters maybe, injected a new subplot, something. That of course would have required unique art, etc. so I understand you limited yourself by the content that exists and the need to fit this into the greater Buu saga. All in all, I think you did a masterful job. I can't think of any other What If... scenarios like this but I'll take some more. Please and thank you.
This was a wonderful take on this story :) I really would have loved to see this one pan out. My only change would be to how Videl and Gohan's fight ended. Just having Videl plant the seed of being responsible and respectful with your capabilities. Like her yelling her frustrations with Gohan holding back on her, and her father's scams. Just to have him thinking about what he could and should do with his strength before Goku gives him the last lesson.
Thank You, this is something that when kai came out and reached this arc was wondering, and wanting at the same time, i would've loved to see the tournament and then go into the buu saga
I like to think the Gohan and Videl would of been nice if we saw it. Where Gohan would hold back in fear of hurting Videl and Videl full out rushing him. This would lead Videl to damage his gear and in rage yell at Gohan giving away his disguise and revealing the Great Sayaman for the audience. And like the Goku vs Chichi Gohan would get serious (enough to give Videl a challenge) and end up getting a ring out win. Leading where I think one of them would confess their love for each other and training together. I would prefer this outcome as it would be a nice call back to the end of Dragon Ball, as well as keep Videl up with the Z fighters given her training as a martial artist. And giving Gohan a warm up keeping him up to shape on his martial arts for the Super events.
17:24 I'd like to think this hypothetical tournament would also take place in the same timeline that Mark made in his Buu Saga Rewrite videos. Anyone remember that?
Making a powerscaling video of how the tournament could've gone would've been a good video in itself, but the fact you took the extra step of making your own little story for how Toriyama could've done it is awesome
I loved this so much! Thanks for painting such a fun picture of what could have been! One minor chance I would make would be instead of Vegeta ignoring Trunks as he walks to the ring, have him just put his hand on Trunks' shoulder as he walks by (not stopping and not breaking his gaze on Goku) and then have Trunks get an excited look, turn and yell "go get him dad!" I love the subtle way Vegeta shows Trunks he cares in DBZ and DBS.
The match between Supreme Kai and Gohan should be the beginning of the Buu saga's narrative. Shin could re-introduce magic as a means to give Gohan difficulty and, as Gohan questions what's going on, explanations as to the benefits and harms of magic can be explained. Would make it easier to explain Babidi and Buu as the story continues, allowing the tournament to slowly take more of a backseat instead of how abruptly it did in the original continuity.
I hate you so much for making me wish this was how the show played out! Damn that was so good man. Amazing job! I would love to see you do more of these or even release this as a fanfic.
Mark, you should definitely consider reading Vinland Saga. The current anime arc is on the same level as the Golden Age in Berserk. I know you'd love it
Fun & cute video. Wasn’t expecting a Mark upload, but I really needed it. Man’s one of my favorite creators for a while for alot of the same reasons we watch his analyses, reviews, blind reactions & personality. Keep up the grind & amazing content. Was super stressed & mid leg workout on top so this was a pleasant listen to after the past few days I’ve had. Keep staying super, Mark. Make it at least a million subs, brother 🔥💖
0:11 I like how the reply claims no one cares to see a what if of this only for Mark to go “I would!”and go way farther than most people would with the concept.
If the first tournament went as you described i could imagine them making a rule saying you have to be alive to enter which would be on par for Toriamas humor. Imagine seeing "must be alive to enter" on a sign up sheet.
4:40 But it wasn't Satan that offered to brive her, it has 18 who offered to throw the fight for a price. she could still have the same thought process.
@@brolytriplethreat as mark said, Mr Satan doesn't know what the other fighters are capable of. He's only gonna know that he cant beat 18 in that moment.
I cannot express how much I love your videos Mark. I feel like a lot of these “What if” scenarios boil down to “who’s the strongest” but you have this perfect balance of acknowledging power levels but also working in the character’s personality, traits and quirks that just makes it so satisfying to hear. You are a masterclass at storytelling!
I think the only real change I would make would be having Mr Satan fight Videl seriously, lose, and have him present her to the audience as both the victor who has surpassed her father and as his successor for the next generation. I think it would be really sweet and definitely mean a lot to Videl
@@deckzone3000 see, I feel like what that would demonstrate to his fans is that the world's greatest martial artist raised an even better one. It becomes more about the legacy of the Satan family and school and less about Mr. Satan's individual glory Also, dear god, anything to give Videl something to _do_ like train normal people to access their ki or something
Its not so much a 'what if'. Its more like a "what could have been". Beautiful story telling Mark. Always appreciate your work my friend. Thanks alot for this
Goku has such an advantage over everyone here because they agree "No Super Saiyan" but that doesn't include Kaioken which he can use for probably longer now due to having a dead more durable body so a 20x Goku sweeps the tournament
Only thing I would've changed with this is had Mr. Satan put up a fair fight against Videl only to have him throw the match and say something like, "I've had my time in the spotlight long enough. It's time the next generation gets a shot at it."
It says a lot that I'm at the quarter finals of your creative rewrite of the tournament arc and I'm fucking HYPED. Excellent fucking job, you may have an advantage of having great established characters and settings to start with, but that doesn't fully detract from the fact you have me on the edge of my seat
I actually really liked this what-if y'all put together here. It not only sets up Majin Vegeta well, but also sets up other fighters like Videl to also be Majin-turned as a way to mix up the babadi HQ
I just wanna visit the reality where Toriyama opted to explore Gohan as the series star, who progresses out of a sense of responsibility more than love for competition (and maybe possibly has a latent taste for combat).
I think it would have been interesting to make Goten and Trunks the "main characters", with Gohan ultimately filling the deus ex machina role that Goku played earlier in Z. Dragon Ball is always most interesting to me when the primary protagonist is a child, ie Goku in OG or Gohan on Namek, and continuing that trend with Goten and Trunks, who unlike Gohan grew up in peacetime and therefore have arcs to learn to take things seriously, would be really compelling to me
Yeah - I may be biased because Gohan was always my favourite character, but it really felt like he was the heart of DBZ, if not necessarily the hero. Like, we really saw him grow up and take on so much responsibility, develop so many important relationships with the other characters… and then right at the end he’s forgotten about =/
Really great video, I really enjoyed how you stick to the way the characters are, you keep it faithful to Toryama's writing, and don't change the characters to suit the story you want to tell. P.s. the bracket has Gohan and Shin incorrectly labelled in the place where 18 and Pintar should have been!
Let's be very clear here, power scaling alone, Piccolo would wipe the floor with everyone (given the non-Super Saiyan rule). Piccolo was above Semi-Perfect Cell level when the Cell games happened and surely he's been slowly increasing his power level in the time skip. Meanwhile Android 18 probably kept the same level she had at the first appearance, so way out of Piccolos league, but also ahead of any base Saiyan. And Shin probably below Gohan. Piccolos remark after forfeiting is as ambiguous as it can be. Clearly Piccolo won't already explain his suspicion to Goku and the mentioned "dimensions" aren't too far-fetched given the god hierarchy. That's definitely Kami reacting there, the Piccolo side never had that kind of reaction, not even with Cell.
Shin is the supreme kai and even though he is a weaker kai he would be as strong as dabura who is his evil counterpart so to speak. That puts shin around perfect cell level, so super saiyan 1 goku and vegeta would probably destroy him at this stage and ssj2 Gohan. Piccolo would be close to shins level if not a little below
You're forgetting about zenkai boosts homie. Gokus been actively training while he was dead, participating in tournaments alike. AND Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta all got zenkais from the fight with cell
I'm only halfway through and got to the match of Piccolo versus Krillin and I'm glad that you make sure to make Piccolo seem very Kami when he talks with Krillin. It's a nice nod in a reminder that Krillin was once his student.
Honestly this could easily lead into the Majin Buu arc, with the rest of the arc adding on to this narrative throughline of the next generation and bettering one’s self (as Mark mentioned in the video), with the Z-Sword and whole narrative remaining the same, but Goku is the one holding back the Buu threat like the series proper, and then have Gohan come in and defeat the threat as Ultimate Gohan or merge with his father with the Potara earrings like his father did from arcs past. And if you really wanted to have in someway to have that same fight on the supreme Kai world, just don’t bring back Vegeta after his explosion in the fight with Majin Buu, make Goku save Gohan with instant transmission, and together (with the world champion as he did in the original arc) defeat Kid Buu with Gohan conjuring or perhaps throwing the Spirit Bomb (recalling back to Goku bouncing it off of Gohan in the Sayain Saga). Then evolve from there.
Vegeta vs 18 rematch would've been so cool. She hurt his pride, so you KNOW he's breaking the "No Super Saiyan" rule immediately. I can just imagine him going SSJ2 right off the bat and showing absolutely zero restraint, saying something like "And to think you gave me trouble once. Now you're just an obstacle. Get outta my way!" and ki-blasting her out of the arena. He just wants to get to Goku as fast as possible.
One of your best videos to date tbh , the only change I would make is Videl not letting her father get away with his lies and telling him furiously that he fight her with the respect she deserves. This could A) be a cool way for Satan to get some growth by seeing how Videl has come and realising he doesn't mind losing to his daughter and B) let Videl also get spotlight in the next generation theme that you've focused on. It also is a nice parallel to Gohan vs Goku where Gohan lost to his father cus he stopped training seriously while Videl won cus she took every chance she could to get stronger .
Yooo the whole custom Tournament ya set up Toriyama style got me soo invested.
Id love a fan animation based on or close to it cause thats a great elseworld story
same.
currently working on illustrations for these matchups :>
Woah it's the OG JaxBlade, how you doing ?
@@epicman-qe9wu bro i love you let us kno when its done
This should be a what-if scenario in Tenkaichi Budokai 4.
I won't lie, if this little what if could become an actual thing, i'd totally support it. This practically makes a complete arc, separated from the Buu arc, while still building up to it in a more compelling way. This topic came out tremendously well, and i enjoyed it way more than i thought
If Toriyama actually committed to the storyline of Gohan in High School, it could have been a nice mini arc before this tournament arc, with a more concise Boo arc to round the series out
It really wouldn’t make sense stakes-wise after the cell saga though
@@hejhejaske Stakes don’t have to be increased for each successive arc.
Yeah, this kicked so much ass.
Although they Forgot TIEN, how dare they?
A tip for anyone wanting to make their own brackets: work backwards. Decide what you want the final match to be, what the biggest fight will be, the fight you want the whole tournament to be building towards. Then decide what's the next biggest fight for each of those competitors. Repeat as many times as necessary. It will be a lot easier than trying to sort 16 fighters into eight brackets.
That's usually the tip for most writers. "Start at the end so you know where you're going."
Doesn't always work, but it does more often than it doesn't.
If we go by conventional power-scaling, the most fighters are stronger/competitive against the Saiyans without SSJ:
Picollo, Kaioshin, Android 18, Kibito, Krillin, Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Trunks, Goten, Videl, Mr Satan, Yamu, Killa, Pintar, Spopovich, Jewel
If we go by the new-age scaling where narratively it's The Saiyan Show, and their Base Power is basically equal to SSJ, things look very different:
Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Kaioshin, Picollo, Kibito, Android 18, Trunks, Goten, Krillin, Videl, Mr Satan, Yamu, Spopovich, Killa, Pintar, Jewel.
Not sure if anyone noticed but Totally Not Mark really botched this video. The matchups he conducted actually did not fit the starting lineup he made. Just a lack of attention to detail, I suppose.
Anyways, if anyone wants to know of a better scenario, here it is.
First they draw lots with Mr Satan going first and picking up Ball 1, and claiming nothing but First Place for the champ. Then everyone else randomly chooses lots and the lineup ends like this:
Mr Satan, Videl, Gohan, Krillin, Yamu, Shin, Mighty Mask, Goku, Vegeta, Spopovich, Jewel, Android 18, Kibito, Pintar, Killah, and lastly Picollo.
First battle goes similar to described. Mr Satan goes all out but is matched by Videl. They scrum and he tells her to forfeit, she yells never. Then Mr Satan says he is about to do a special attack and it looks like a Kameha. Then he grabs his stomach, rolls on the floor, and gives up. Then claims he can't hurt his daughter to keep his reputation. Everyone cringes.
Gohan vs Krillin, it's a close fight. Krillin almost gives up but gets motivation from Maron. They go back in memory to Nappa fight, Namek saga, Frieza fight, and Cell saga. It's a good call back. Gohan narrowly wins but Krillin is proud of his efforts.
Yamu was the previous Second Place, and he is effortlessly beaten by Shin. Goku picks up a weird aura from him, whilst it makes Picollo shake. They are unsure.
Mighty Mask fights Goku, who doesn't know who he is. He hasn't properly sensed the energy of Goten and Trunks. Goku figures it out and coaches them into fighting together better. He is stunned with their potential. Vegeta yells at Goku, get serious we have a fight to make, Goku gets scared and ends the fight with a single kick.
Vegeta matches with Spopovich. He ends it within 10 seconds. The crowd is angry at such a short fight, many made big bets against Vegeta.
Android 18 fights Jewel next. He says she is not as pretty as him, and manages to cheat using a knife. Stabbing her has no effect so he gets scared and runs away, out of bounds.
Kibito fights Pintar. He toys with him until Shin tells him to end it. This notifies Goku and Picollo to understand that Kibito is the underling and to take Shin seriously.
Lastly Picollo faces off against Killah. Similar case happens with Picollo purposely putting on a show for the audience but winning easily.
Next Rounds Start!
Videl fights Gohan and it is a callback to the Goku vs Chichi fight. Gohan decides to end it with a ring out. Videl is happy.
Goku fights Shin. He can't seem to get a hit in. In many instances Goku almost loses due to Shin's magic. Shin and Goku talk telepathically. With Shin saying he will tell him the secret if Goku explains himself and why he isn't using his whole potential. Goku says he promised not to transform and Shin explains he is the New Kaioshin, or the God of Creation, aka Universe's Overseer. Shin almost wins again, but everyone gets surprised when Goku wins by a ring out as he uses Kaioken x20. Krillin gets angry at Goku saying he promised not to cheat.
Next match is Vegeta vs Android 18. This is a callback. Vegeta goes all-out to get the quick victory but 18 is just too fast, strong, and sturdy. She toys with him but he doesn't give up. She says he will eventually tire out, so it's futile. Then Vegeta manages to punch her which knocks her out to faint. Nobody notices besides Goku, Shin, and Picollo.... but Vegeta has mastery over Super Saiyan and he managed to transform in the last second before striking her down. Krillin manages to catch her as she falls. Shin decides to heal her.
Last match in this round is Picollo vs Kibito. They slowly progress the battle as it heats up. Picollo takes off his weights and Shin decides to lend some power to Kibito. Everyone is amazed. Kibito manages to put a mortal wound on Picollo. But Picollo shows him that he can regenerate his legs. And then he ends the battle after that as victor.
Next round.
Gohan vs Goku
Picollo vs Vegeta
Gohan vs Goku goes as expected. Goku coaches Gohan and tells him to refine his skills and improve his power. He asks Gohan to turn to Super Saiyan 2, which he can't. After enough sparring and coaching Gohan struggles to turn SS2. Then in the shortest glimpse Goku knocks him down to the arena as a SS2. As Gohan tries to stand up, Goku tells him he is proud of him, and walks away losing from a ring out. Everyone is shocked. Vegeta is furious. It's an ode to the Roshi versus Tien match.
Vegeta vs Picollo. This was a battle long time coming. Picollo takes off his weights, and Vegeta cracks his joints. Both go all out from the start. And there is an epic dialogue, and masterful choreography. Eventually Vegeta heads down, and says he gives up. This time Goku is very angry. But there is two people who understood very well: Base Vegeta is too weak against Picollo, but if he transforms to SS2 then Picollo is too weak against Vegeta. Since Goku is no longer in the tournament, Vegeta doesn't care.
The presenter then says it is the Grand Finale. Gohan versus Picollo. It is an epic fight, with both powering up to their maximum. After a long and epic fight, Picollo emerges as the 24th Tenkaichi Winner. It's a callback to the end of Dragon Ball, and very fitting as the protector of Earth is now Picollo (fused with Kami). In a spiritual way, the torch is passed on. Gohan can focus on his work/studies and building a family. Goku and Vegeta are more powerful but they deal with more Galaxy/Universal threats.
....so how is that for an tournament saga??
@ekinteko you wrote all that just for no one to care whatsoever
Cool advice
I just realized this but trunks and goten joining together as one as mighty mask is an epic foreshadowing of them fusing later in the saga. Has anyone else noticed this???
That's actually genius. I never thought of that.
I noticed that on my second watching of that. I thought that was pretty clever
Yeah I've noticed that before. It's a really cool detail.
Nice catch
Definitely didn't catch it when first watching the series, but after rewatching, it's so genius!
My favorite part of this video is that, unlike other "what if" videos, mark knows these characters inside and out.
I love the little quirks like Krillin crackin an awkward smile after he loses and goku not realizing his ball is the last one. He keeps everything so in character.
Little details show Mark's love and knowledge for these characters.
MasakoX just doesn't exist
@@MaxiemumKarnage my favorite thing about masakox is "his what if nappa turned good" series, simply because he voices nappa in dbza. His nappa voice is honestly my head cannon
@@spirttomb Masako didn't voice Nappa that was Takahata101
It's really only Mark and MasakoX that can go insanely indepth within the dbz universe and the characters inside it.
@@spirttomb yeah masako only ever voiced gohan, goku, roshi for the first 2 seasons, and maybe an odd background character or two. He never voiced Nappa.
I've always felt that the fact that Piccolo could sense Shin's energy as a sign that Piccolo has latent divine ki. Beerus states that only someone with divine ki can sense divine ki. This might also be what the Orange Piccolo form is.
Hello there!! Kami? god of Earth! that’s why he was able to sense god ki same like Dende! he was the one who sense Beerus godly ki.
@@esabuu1.046 No shit. That's what I said. Orange Piccolo is probably similar to SSJG
You understand Toriyama's writing and characters so well. The rematches and comedy just fit so well, Videl vs Satan is such a funny and oddly wholesome idea
Agreed. Im glad this wasn't just a pure power scaling thing
this is one of the channels that understand toriyama the most, that's why i keep watching
Man, Mark's art never ceases to amaze me. Just look at Jewel at 22:12
Truly magnificent, bringing the right design to a often overlooked character
Truly one of the artists of our time
That hypothetical tournament was a much, MUUUUUCH better set-up for the Babidi/Buu saga stuff than what we originally got, and the actual tournament we got in the manga/anime wasnt really bad to start with.
Impressive work.
For some reason, I always loved seeing the normal human’s reactions to the group’s enormous strength. It’s like they have no idea of the power they’re witnessing. Especially the referee guy, since he’s been there from the beginning.
I like to imagine the ref is scared straight every tournament afraid that the monkey kid is gonna come back 10x stronger
+
And he's always so excited to see these guys fight too. He's just as into these fights as the viewers are
The referee is an important part of any tournament arc, he sets up the fighters while at the same time being an impartial hype man for both sides. The job of the referee is one of importance to the fight, and it’s one to be respected.
me too, except i don't like that they constantly make up reasons on why it's fake, even if that's accurate to what would happen in real life. i just want them (especially satan) to know just how minute they are compared to everyone
Videl has been so mistreated by the story ever since losing to Spopovich. I'm glad that this retelling gives her the respect she deserves
@@StowerslemaluShe gets relegated to a housewife, we never see her fight or train again in canon material, she deserved much more
@@JakeStowers266 The issue is that Videl was NEVER like that, she was actually interested in fighting, long before she met Gohan due to being Mr Satan's daughter, it's literally in her blood and yet she just seems to stop for no good reason, her being a housewife isn't an issue because it's "unimportant" (which it actually IS from a story perspective), it's an issue because it's disrespectful to the character she was back in Z. The fact is she absolutely has been mistreated, the most respect she's gotten in recent years is being a playable character in DBFZ.
@@StowerslemaluShe basically gets the same role as Chichi
@@Stowerslemalu the point is that Videl never used to be like that. She literally got the Chi-Chi treatment. Both were fighters and had fierce appearances. and now they're literal housewives. only thing Videl has going for her compared to Chi-Chi... is not nagging about studies. that's a downgrade in my eyes, knowing how she used to be a great female fighter before. as comment above me^^ stated, being a housewife is not an issue in itself. it's the way they stripped her of personality and background. cant believe im about to say this but i even prefer her saiyaman/woman moments more than anything she's done post-buu arc
look at Bulma for example. yeah she has more going for her when it comes to the show (that being Goku's childhood friend/tech nerd), but they still manage to give her moments that remind us of who she is, and has been from the beginning. if you need a prime example just look at the new Super Hero movie. a wish to make her ass bigger? yea that's fucking Bulma alright lmao. that selfish trait is something we're at least familiar with. like it or not, that's a character. Videl's just... a generic housewife now. no personality allowed lol i liked her and Chi-Chi way more pre-super honestly
@@Stowerslemalu That doesn't suit Videl as a character, Chi Chi only fought to get Goku's affection, that's not Videl, Videl is a prideful martial artist that loves the sport, I expect characters to retain what makes them that character not be unrecognisable
I really think, Toriyama wanting Gohan to take over aside, that Vegeta and Gohan could really have had an awesome dynamic post-Cell. Realizing that Vegeta's pride got his son killed, and Gohan's hubris got his father killed, the two could have made their way to one another by way of a mentor/pupil relationship. It would have been an interesting mirror to the last time Goku died and Gohan fell under the tutelage of Piccolo--one of Goku's past enemies and rivals. Realizing Gohan wasn't ready to take on the mantle of Earth's defender, Piccolo urges Vegeta to train Gohan as he would be the only one capable of doing so appropriately with Gohan's newly awakened power. Vegeta refuses but, after some goading from Piccolo, reluctantly takes on the role of mentor, putting the screws to Gohan in part to test his abilities in addition to working through his frustrations over the loss of his rivalry with Goku (another mirror/callback to the scene on Namek).
Flash forward to the world tournament and we see Gohan using not Goku's abilities like the Kamehameha, but abilities and techniques that he learned from Goku's rivals like the Makankosappo or the Galik Gun (or even the Final Flash). Gohan being trained by Goku's past enemies is such a cool concept, but maybe that's just me.
Honestly brilliant
@@exodia_right_leg 5 months later and this idea still holds up. I would have killed for this version of Gohan over what we got instead.
This is such an awesome concept and I wish we could have seen it implemented, esp since I could see Gohan finding a way to combine his mentors techniques
@@JaelynMcgee right? Like a Masenko/Garlick Gun combo?
That would be quite interesting, not just for Gohan, but for Vegeta as well. In the Manga while Vegeta trains with massive amounts of gravity, Goku trained with lots of magical tools, which was the thing that gave him the upper hand. But in your scenario Vegeta has someone Goku is missing, a very strong sparring partner.
I think in that scenario Vegeta would be able to master the SSJ3 form (as a mortal human), and Gohan would do that as well. Buu would have no chance against the two.
This video gave me goosebumps. My biggest gripe with that saga was always that the tournament wasn't allowed to play out before getting into Buu, and I couldn't ask for a better way for it to play out then this. Amazing video by the TNM team!
If Goku and Vegeta had their fight during the tournament, Buu likely would have never been born. Vegeta wanted his rematch with Goku and kept getting interrupted by the shenanigans (Shinanigans in this case) of the Supreme Kai and Babidi. All he wanted was to fight Goku during those 24 hours and prove himself the strongest for his own sanity.
Seeing Goku's power against Babidi's monster let Vegeta know in advance that he was going to lose his desired rematch which prompted him to allow Babidi to take him. But also he knew that the easiest way to force the fight is to "become evil". It's unclear how much of Babidi's influence led to Vegeta killing those people in the stadium and how much of that was just him being a prick. He shows clear remorse after his hate boner for Goku faded. Post nut Vegeta was all remorse.
dude imagine a version where we don't have to endure videl getting her ass brutally beaten for like 20 minutes straight and then it's just over and the russian guy gets immediately killed with no fanfare so you get no sense of closure whatsoever, that would've been cool
The biggest reason the last 1/3 of DBZ never resonated with me like DB or 2/3 of DBZ was the incompleteness of the tournament. We had 3 brilliant tourneys in DB, yet couldn't even follow through on the last DBZ one with a stacked lineup. Instead we get endless Majin Buu and Vegeta being a moron for the stretch run.
These takes are so un-based. Buu arc is best because it's Toriyama's cool, late, wild experimental phase
@@dankerbellno Videl getting that beating was awesome. But it should of lead to a big power up from her.
I know you said you don't intend to make more What Ifs, but your story-focused tournament made this video instantly become one of my all-time favorite Dragon Ball What Ifs. You have a unique voice, a unique style of storytelling, and I love how you used the monochromatic manga for your visuals.
Krillin: "wow piccolo, you're actually taking off the cloack and turban? For me?
Piccolo: "you're underestimating yourself Krillin. A mistake I won't make. Not again."
18: "isn't your little 'no super saiyan pact' unfair against me. I'm a natural blonde and that for never beat me to begin with"
Vegeta: "and you call me the boastful one. I'll show you strength that you'll never reach with metal parts alone"
Whats even crazier is how you ended it for the story version of the tournament. Because you have a tragedy happen after the Tournament ends it's reminiscent to how Tambourine killed Krillin to start the Demon King Piccolo saga. This really could've been a tournament arc with absolutely insane call backs.
Given this would end up being the end to DBZ? This only makes sense. Only have it diverge when it becomes clear that Kid Buu isn't interested in anything but destroying.
Like how Demon King Dabura would be a major red herring since all the callbacks would make up think of Demon King Piccolo.
And theres a lot of cool callbacks too, the Goku Chi Chi/Gohan Videl parallel, Goku vs dead Grandpa Gohan in the Fortunteller Baba arc is reflected with Gohan vs dead Goku
Your Toriyama version of the tournament was so satisfying. The understanding of the characters you have is so on point it felt like someone was actually reviewing a piece of DBZ I'd never seen and found myself super invested in learning how it was going to go, excellent video idea
For some reason, I’m a big fan of Piccolo helping Krillin up after their match and showing respect to the human the entire way through. Krillin’s abilities are what gave Piccolo his first wake up call in the series during their first match, and the two have consistently fought side by side as near peers for decades at this point.
Piccolo has seen Krillin grow as a fighter right alongside him, and though he’s much much stronger than Krillin is, Piccolo has seen Krillin go up against and surprise much stronger opponents time and time again, despite his own fear.
Of course there’s respect there, Krillin isn’t just a fellow Z Fighter and warrior, but is also so far as Piccolo is concerned, a friend.
I'd argue krillin is one of the 3 people z piccolo considers a friend including goku and gohan
Your version of the tournament would be such an amazing tournament to be animated
The Satan-Videl match would be appropriate, but what first came to mind was to actually bout with her some and selling her performance against him, in part to mitigate her from ramping up into injurious blows, but also to act as her hype-man, losing to her as a means of passing the torch, a champion who raised a champion, the next generation of hero raised up by the hero of the Earth himself! A pretty slick way to pass the buck while retaining the glories of his legacy.
Did I just spend 30 minutes listening to Mark's fanfic? Yes. Would I do it again? Absolutely! Love your stuff Mark!
😂😂
Exactly my thoughts
Its kinda funny how Toriyama just forgot how strong Piccolo should be. It's implied Supreme Kai is above Piccolo but below Vegeta, but Piccolo was the only person who could fight the Androids at ALL before the time chamber, with the Time Chamber training I think it does make sense that the gap would've shrank a lot but I don’t think anyone in base would've been able to beat Piccolo.
I think it's just the Base Saiyans were stronger but then got retcon to no be in Battle Of Gods/Super, Vegeta was confident he could still win the tournament even knowing Piccolo and 18 were participating and that was after the no Super Saiyan Rule
It's not even that the Supreme Kai is weaker than the Saiyans that gets me, it's the fact that he's so spinless around them due to their strength, the only Saiyan that doesn't treat the Supreme Kai like a joke is Gohan, but that's more of a Gohan just being a well mannered guy than him being impressed by Supreme Kai's strength
Piccolo had his time chamber with Kami fusion tho.
Ironically if Piccolo had Kaioken, he'd be the strongest Z fighter. His base is equal to SSJ so that would make him op if he used Kaioken x20
@@rich355supreme Kai had piccolo shook so he should be above first form cell level maybe even post absorbing first form cell since i doubt piccolo dint get stronger after all those years
Gohan fighting Goku in the final round of a world tournament would have been a much more satisfying ending to the entire arc of Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. Completing the story of Gohan through Z and bringing back the feeling of Goku fighting through the tournaments in Dragon Ball as a young fighter.
Dragon Ball is Superior than anything made after it. Z, GT, Supérfluo... You name it, the Original is better.
Simply just wrong
@@jaymthesn5981
I wouldn't say that. The OG is so amazing, but Z is better. I still think that King Piccolo is by far the best villain of the series, and I can't help but marvel at how insanely cute kid Goku was I still love Z more as it is more complex.
Of course, it's all started with King Piccolo. He is the one who raised up everything. The OG Dragon Ball is so underrated it's very sad.
Tryna figure out how he would beat super Saiyan 3
& that’s assuming that gohan never stopped training. He would’ve been so much stronger
The Krillin vs Piccolo narration had me crying like a baby, great job man
Dude! SO nice seeing you return to original content and not just reviews. While I adore your reviews, this feels like a load of fresh air. Love this. Love YOU man! Can’t wait to see what’s next from ya, also can’t wait to see what you review next.
Link to your pfp?
Man this was beautiful. I lowkey wish this is how the Buu Saga started, it wouldn't even be the first time something like this happened since the 2nd tournament led into King Piccolo. Also ngl I started to tear up a bit when you got to part of Goku telling Gohan he was proud of him.
If I was to change ONE thing with your layout of the tournament it would be that Hercule actually tries against his daughter for a part of the match before realizing that he is totally outclassed. We know he isn't a COMPLETE fraud, he just doesnt stack up to the crazy powerhouses of the Z group. I think he would be excited to fight against her but upon being put on the back foot against her look for a way out, and that would make Videl even more upset since he stopped trying and let her win instead of just letting her win immediately.
Ik why you think that
But remember, that kinda teeny tiny bit of humility and self respect which Mr Satan has right now...had developed AFTER the things he went through...with our heroes...the whole Buu saga basically....
Here, this Mr Satan, is just a egoistic person...who has no amount of self consciousness...
I think you dont remember but me satan already knew that videl surpassed him by a lot to the point he was afraid of her strength when she was training at their mansion
Honey wake up, new Totally Not Mark video dropped!
Bro been in the healing chamber for a strong min 😂
Honey: "I want a divorce"
Thank God it isn't Bleach-related
Crrrrrriiiiiinggggee
Who do you think would have won the 25th World Tournament?
The Champ, Mr. Satan
Depends on the restraints, I would still pay to witness a base goku vs base vegeta
Definitely not Gohan though without the proper motivation
Goku would have won the 25th World Tournament.
Mr. Satan, duh. He exploded Cell with one punch. That farmer with the messy hair doesn’t stand a chance.
Video because I think she’s cool
The announcer stating during the tournament that he knows it was the z team that beat cell will always be a great call back to his character
I like how you narrated this. I was able to picture the whole tournament. Nice work.
This smells like a future Buu saga rewrite👀 I’m certainly interested in that! The whole tournament rewrite was great on its own, offering tons of fanservice for lovers of the series. It would’ve also been kinda cool of Vegeta fought Gohan in the finals too, as another rematch!
Mark already rewrote the buu saga in the past tho
There is a possibility that vegeta beats goku bc In the real buu arc goku kinda let vegeta win there 1v1
@@juu4503 he did a bad job of it, he should try again based on what he created in this video
I’m glad I wasn’t the only one not impressed by Marks rewrite of the Boo saga.
14:35 While I was listening to this I realized something.
Gohan until Cell lost every fight he was in, every time he fought anyone for any reason until Cell someone else saved him and defeated his opponent for him.
Goku won every fight with ease until Roshi took him down.
No wonder they treat fighting so differently.
I don’t think that Mr. Satan would throw the match with Videl. I think he cares about her too much to do that. Instead, he would give her a fair match, knowing that he would lose anyways, And then, after he genuinely puts effort in and loses, he would say the whole thing about videl being the future, but instead of him saying it to save face, it’s real. He values and respects his daughter too much to treat his match with her like just another PR stunt.
I agree with this, though it would've been better if he gave her a fair fight and lost, and everyone just assumed it was a PR stunt.
I think Mr Satan after the Buu arc, totally . Mr satan here is still way too self absorbed and blinded by celebrity.
He’s def a good man that loves his daughter , but I think it’s toward the end of the arc where he snaps out it and wouldn’t care about losing the tournament , given all he went through
THIS! I came here to post this the only change I'd make is Mr. Satan does fight but at the end gracefully gives up telling Vidal she's the future and he walks out of the ring mirroring Master Roshi and Tien.
right -- this could actually be a more satisfying way for satan to experience his character arc.
at first he'd be fighting with all he can muster -- determined to beat her before he finds a way to bow out of the next match
he may even be able to hit harder than she can, but she can fly to avoid ringouts, and he'd still be shocked at how hard she's hitting him.
then in his internal monologue he'd realize that she's magnificent......
and for the first time in his life he'd truly and genuinely be proud of someone else. sure, he'd been proud before, but in an endearment way; this would be respecting her as an equal or even a superior.
if his realization is quick enough he may even say to the interviewers that "she could teach me a thing or two!"
....and yeah it would probably be really funny if all the reporters are commenting on how humble the champ is being after letting her win, even if he's insisting that no, she genuinely actually won for real -- they'll ignore that, to his frustration 😂
No he would probably get his ass kicked easily….and then say to the crowd that he let his daughter win/couldn’t fight his own daughter. To which the crowd would cheer and everyone would believe him….
(Edit) That’s how it would happen in the show realistically speaking.
Frankly, Shin, Kibito and Goku had no business entering the “Strongest UNDER the Heavens” Tournament in the first place!
Awesome video, I love the service to a pure power scaling perspective before getting in the trenches for a real analysis. Not sure how it would go, but I’d love to see more videos like this. Maybe you could take a spin at a JoJo Battle Tendency tournament, since if I recall, Part 2 was when Araki got that advice.
Your version of this tournament is beautiful! I love the idea of having Goku assume the mentor role for Gohan as Roshi once did for him. Wish we could have seen it play out this way!
I really like what you did here, you initially determined the tournament based off how most fans would, but you analyzed how Toriyama did it and determined the tournament based off of that.
That really inspires me with my own writing.
Your re-organization of the tournament was great!
I love the story arcs, the characterization and everything about it. Great work
This video was so much better than I expected. Applying it to the story was an amazing. Thanks
I really love the complete rewrite you did for the tournament. It felt both satisfying and Toriyama-esque in its execution.
I loved this vid. I’m super glad you tackled it from both perspectives too, I know the sheer power scaling angle isn’t as narratively interesting, but I still think it’s a fun topic as long as it’s not taken too seriously. And the way you did craft the narrative for the second part was super interesting and has me wishing the series actually went that way. Awesome video.
My boy Piccolo is robbed in blind daylight here. Saying he's weaker than supreme Kai is just salt in the wound.
Now this is a very interesting and new concept for the Dragonball fandom 🔥
It really isnt
The answer is quite obvious
@@godspeedforce9371not really there things on how if they would keep the no transformation rule,Vegeta being confident he can win in base even tho piccolo and android 18 was participating,base Goku or Vegeta having to fight piccolo and android 18 with it being debatable they can beat him also supreme Kai might arguably win since he had piccolo shook
I’m going to back up Mark and disagree with him in this post. Goku and Vegeta were basically equal in their fight in this arc however, that was after Babidis Majin boost, and I don’t think that power boost only applied to his super Saiyan two form. I think it was a general boost that apply to every form he had so if we take that away, he’s gotta be a little bit weaker than Goku. As far as the Goku android 18 fight goes I think Mark raises some really great points, but the power level difference in my opinion is still too great. That being said, I do think that’s how Toriyama would’ve wrote it; main character plot armor wins.
@@StevejRodriguez You could still scale buu saga base Goku above android 18 though.
@@leonglitch But, why?
I've never thought about an uninterrupted tournament before.
I hate to admit how much I’ve thought about it, I always thought it would have been cool to see a tournament play out to its natural climax in the Z portion of the story.
@@Bellmerr same
If no transformation supreme Kai might actually unironically win
I thought about this weeks ago while playing through Kakarot lol
I was reading the Buu saga and thought to myself, "hey, what if the final arc didn't have to be another villain-centric arc and could just be one last Tenkaichi Budokai". Genuinely, I didn't care that there wasn't a big bad to take down, since I already loved the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai, which didn't even have a villain. Vegeta and a few of the new guys introduced could be heels and I'd be fine.
Who gonna win? I'm not sure but it's totally not Mark.
I am now patiently waiting for mark to start doing what ifs after this lol. This was phenomenal
I love a totally not mark one off. Hope you do more no matter the topic. Its hard to want to watch your reviews for stuff I haven’t seen or read myself. I’m still only half way through one piece but I’d really love to see the rest of the your review series.
I feel that a genuine match between Satan and Videl would have been neat, esp since we could seen a match between two mormal people. Satan still fakes and throws the match at the end, but he makes her work for it and Videl genuinely earns a win which is something she absolutely deserves
Really awesome episode. I would love to see what Vegeta and Gohan in the final round would look like while still pushing for the same ending.
This was amazing. Thank you. Power scaling is something lots of people will find issues with in the first portion of your video, but the alternate story you created was masterful and would have been preferred to the one we got from the author. I know that it's 20/20 hindsight but it was still very impressive how you went about it. Really enjoyed the rematches as well as the teacher/pupil aspect to the finals. After 7 years, Gohan who would have had the edge in terms of raw power in a normal tournament in place of the cell games, is faced with his father and the legend himself who never ceased to train while Gohan gave up martial arts. TIme for Goku to impart a lesson to his son on this supposed "one day" back from the dead before leading into a exciting new villian arc with twists and turns. So many years I've wondered how such a tournament might have been written and thanks to you I have a more than sufficient answer of how I would have preferred it at least. Appreciate all that effort!
A Gohan vs Videl would definitely make my day. I hope it would go the way Goku vs Chi Chi did. Might be a fun Easter egg if Goku looks at Chi Chi and they both smile, remembering that tournament all those years ago
Uuuuuh, i really like that, that's very good
Mark, once again you deliver a retelling of an arc with so much depth and quality it might as well have been canon. I would really like if you were to make a continuation of this video, much in the vein of your Rewriting the Buu Saga video from years prior. Thanks so much.
Your writing is fantastic and your knowledge of story design is insightful. I love paying attention to how you structure your videos. Wanted you to know the work you put into your script doesn't go unnoticed!
The tournament we deserved. Thank you. I'm a huge DB fan and also a french mangaka deeply influenced by toriyama's art. I was always frustrated that this tournament didn't go to the end before Boo intervened. You just did this in the best way possible. I would kill (figuratively) to get a publisher with the own rights to get me the change to draw this alternative story. My... That would be such a blast.
Thank you again for this nice moment 🙂
This was a really well made video, loved the idea and really appreciated the depiction of the tournament in the half end of the video
You're one of like two youtubers i'd trust to make something like this accurately and fun, the other being MasakoX.
i dont think its accurate thou he tries to be but there is something he had forgot badly... He refers thath Vegeta has Trained alot, but actually when kakarot died vegeta lost his will to train anymore, he did start training just week before tournament as he heard that kakarot will be there too
I got so tired of Masako's what ifs when he milked them to death.
Every now and then I check out his channel and see "what if Babidi was a girl part 13 " and just sigh.
His Raditz what if was fun though.
@@sakugrohn3822i swear you see him and trunks training even before they know goku will be there. and someone tells gohan that vegeta has been teaching trunks the entire time since cell
@@sakugrohn3822no, Vegeta lost the will to FIGHT. He kept up his training.
@@L3monstaSpeaking as a Raditz fan, I… actually kind of hated it? More Raditz is fun, and all, but it felt he was becoming a black hole sucking up the plot, the characterization felt weird, some pretty big character arcs suffered as a result of the plot fixating on Raditz… which… wasn’t a decision that ever made sense. Raditz’s established character is so unusual for a Saiyan. He’s got bravado, sure, but not any real pride. He had no problem with demeaning himself by begging for mercy, and was not above using dirty tricks to get an upper hand.
I love your what if scenarios! You have proven yourself a knowledgeable enough source to where it’s not just a *shtick* and you put genuine thought and research into your topics. Would love more of these videos!
I haven't even finished watching this but I really do hope Akira Toriyama watches this video. I think it's one of the best things you've ever done. It condenses everything you've learned about storytelling, manga, Dragon Ball specifically, and Akira Toriyama's storytelling style specifically into a single video. Great job! Now I'm back to finishing the video.
N.B. I've finished watching now and I was not disappointed. Great job! I personally think Toriyama would have invented something new to incorporate into the story. He did so with every other tournament arc. You have captured the overarching storyline beautifully but something feels missing. What you've created is a nostalgic version of rematches with an overarching storyline. Toriyama would have injected something new, some new characters maybe, injected a new subplot, something. That of course would have required unique art, etc. so I understand you limited yourself by the content that exists and the need to fit this into the greater Buu saga. All in all, I think you did a masterful job.
I can't think of any other What If... scenarios like this but I'll take some more. Please and thank you.
This was a wonderful take on this story :) I really would have loved to see this one pan out. My only change would be to how Videl and Gohan's fight ended. Just having Videl plant the seed of being responsible and respectful with your capabilities. Like her yelling her frustrations with Gohan holding back on her, and her father's scams. Just to have him thinking about what he could and should do with his strength before Goku gives him the last lesson.
Thank You, this is something that when kai came out and reached this arc was wondering, and wanting at the same time, i would've loved to see the tournament and then go into the buu saga
Top tier 10/10 what if video as always, Mark. I hope to see more in this channel soon this year.
I like to think the Gohan and Videl would of been nice if we saw it.
Where Gohan would hold back in fear of hurting Videl and Videl full out rushing him.
This would lead Videl to damage his gear and in rage yell at Gohan giving away his disguise and revealing the Great Sayaman for the audience.
And like the Goku vs Chichi Gohan would get serious (enough to give Videl a challenge) and end up getting a ring out win. Leading where I think one of them would confess their love for each other and training together.
I would prefer this outcome as it would be a nice call back to the end of Dragon Ball, as well as keep Videl up with the Z fighters given her training as a martial artist.
And giving Gohan a warm up keeping him up to shape on his martial arts for the Super events.
Wow, You created a whole good arc.
This is better than the whole buu saga, I wish we had this instead.
Og Dragon ball vibes.
17:24
I'd like to think this hypothetical tournament would also take place in the same timeline that Mark made in his Buu Saga Rewrite videos. Anyone remember that?
I was just about to type that😭
So true
Loved the video, the 2nd tournament sounds a lot better. I love the manga but some stories can always improve
Making a powerscaling video of how the tournament could've gone would've been a good video in itself, but the fact you took the extra step of making your own little story for how Toriyama could've done it is awesome
I’ve always wanted to hear how this arc would’ve originally played out if not interfered. And I absolutely love the way that you played it out.
I loved this so much! Thanks for painting such a fun picture of what could have been! One minor chance I would make would be instead of Vegeta ignoring Trunks as he walks to the ring, have him just put his hand on Trunks' shoulder as he walks by (not stopping and not breaking his gaze on Goku) and then have Trunks get an excited look, turn and yell "go get him dad!" I love the subtle way Vegeta shows Trunks he cares in DBZ and DBS.
this video just made me realize we never got to see Goku vs Android 18 AND I NEED TO SEE THAT FIGHT AT SOME POINT
Ah dude mark you never disappoint this was amazing 🤩
The match between Supreme Kai and Gohan should be the beginning of the Buu saga's narrative. Shin could re-introduce magic as a means to give Gohan difficulty and, as Gohan questions what's going on, explanations as to the benefits and harms of magic can be explained. Would make it easier to explain Babidi and Buu as the story continues, allowing the tournament to slowly take more of a backseat instead of how abruptly it did in the original continuity.
I hate you so much for making me wish this was how the show played out! Damn that was so good man. Amazing job! I would love to see you do more of these or even release this as a fanfic.
Mark, you should definitely consider reading Vinland Saga. The current anime arc is on the same level as the Golden Age in Berserk. I know you'd love it
He must
he trynna gas it up
Vinland Saga farmland arc is peak fiction. I recommend it especially for those who are going through tough times right now. It's so inspiring.
@@MoppetMage It's already legendary among Seinen readers
I know he'd love yo momma
Fun & cute video. Wasn’t expecting a Mark upload, but I really needed it.
Man’s one of my favorite creators for a while for alot of the same reasons we watch his analyses, reviews, blind reactions & personality. Keep up the grind & amazing content. Was super stressed & mid leg workout on top so this was a pleasant listen to after the past few days I’ve had. Keep staying super, Mark. Make it at least a million subs, brother 🔥💖
0:11 I like how the reply claims no one cares to see a what if of this only for Mark to go “I would!”and go way farther than most people would with the concept.
I think it's kind of cheesy that Goku can just be like "no one use super Saiyan" knowing full well he's like the only one who has mastered kaioken.
Yo con un kaioken en la mochila
It wasn’t his idea though
And Piccolo is fused with both Nail and Kami, and is already stronger than super Saiyans in the Android saga.
And.... super saiyan 3.
When did Goku say that? (He didn't)
If the first tournament went as you described i could imagine them making a rule saying you have to be alive to enter which would be on par for Toriamas humor. Imagine seeing "must be alive to enter" on a sign up sheet.
"you're almost like a different person!" is such a choice line for that goku v piccolo match. excellent work 👏
4:40 But it wasn't Satan that offered to brive her, it has 18 who offered to throw the fight for a price. she could still have the same thought process.
Difference is that this is Round 1, not the final two fighters. Satan moving on to the Quarterfinals only means he delays his humiliation a round.
@@brolytriplethreat as mark said, Mr Satan doesn't know what the other fighters are capable of. He's only gonna know that he cant beat 18 in that moment.
I cannot express how much I love your videos Mark. I feel like a lot of these “What if” scenarios boil down to “who’s the strongest” but you have this perfect balance of acknowledging power levels but also working in the character’s personality, traits and quirks that just makes it so satisfying to hear. You are a masterclass at storytelling!
Got chills at the end. This would have been great!
I think the only real change I would make would be having Mr Satan fight Videl seriously, lose, and have him present her to the audience as both the victor who has surpassed her father and as his successor for the next generation. I think it would be really sweet and definitely mean a lot to Videl
That wouldn't make sense. He's at the peak of his fame and Videl is just a teenager. Maybe in a future tournament.
@@deckzone3000 see, I feel like what that would demonstrate to his fans is that the world's greatest martial artist raised an even better one. It becomes more about the legacy of the Satan family and school and less about Mr. Satan's individual glory
Also, dear god, anything to give Videl something to _do_ like train normal people to access their ki or something
i thought mr satan was still the strongest human besides the z fighters
@@bruh385videl at this time was stronger then Mr Satan
Gohan says the following
Its not so much a 'what if'. Its more like a "what could have been". Beautiful story telling Mark. Always appreciate your work my friend. Thanks alot for this
Dude this was awesome, its what I didn’t know I needed for the Buu Saga.
Goku has such an advantage over everyone here because they agree "No Super Saiyan" but that doesn't include Kaioken which he can use for probably longer now due to having a dead more durable body so a 20x Goku sweeps the tournament
Only thing I would've changed with this is had Mr. Satan put up a fair fight against Videl only to have him throw the match and say something like, "I've had my time in the spotlight long enough. It's time the next generation gets a shot at it."
It says a lot that I'm at the quarter finals of your creative rewrite of the tournament arc and I'm fucking HYPED. Excellent fucking job, you may have an advantage of having great established characters and settings to start with, but that doesn't fully detract from the fact you have me on the edge of my seat
The real reason why the tournament was interrupted is because nobody wanted to see Goku vs Vegeta in the first round of the tournament
TNM talking about Dragon Ball is like MTV showing music videos.
I actually really liked this what-if y'all put together here. It not only sets up Majin Vegeta well, but also sets up other fighters like Videl to also be Majin-turned as a way to mix up the babadi HQ
I just wanna visit the reality where Toriyama opted to explore Gohan as the series star, who progresses out of a sense of responsibility more than love for competition (and maybe possibly has a latent taste for combat).
I think it would have been interesting to make Goten and Trunks the "main characters", with Gohan ultimately filling the deus ex machina role that Goku played earlier in Z.
Dragon Ball is always most interesting to me when the primary protagonist is a child, ie Goku in OG or Gohan on Namek, and continuing that trend with Goten and Trunks, who unlike Gohan grew up in peacetime and therefore have arcs to learn to take things seriously, would be really compelling to me
Yeah - I may be biased because Gohan was always my favourite character, but it really felt like he was the heart of DBZ, if not necessarily the hero. Like, we really saw him grow up and take on so much responsibility, develop so many important relationships with the other characters… and then right at the end he’s forgotten about =/
Really great video, I really enjoyed how you stick to the way the characters are, you keep it faithful to Toryama's writing, and don't change the characters to suit the story you want to tell.
P.s. the bracket has Gohan and Shin incorrectly labelled in the place where 18 and Pintar should have been!
Krillin drawing Piccolo. Oh boy, I like your nod to the DB tournament where that happened.
Let's be very clear here, power scaling alone, Piccolo would wipe the floor with everyone (given the non-Super Saiyan rule).
Piccolo was above Semi-Perfect Cell level when the Cell games happened and surely he's been slowly increasing his power level in the time skip.
Meanwhile Android 18 probably kept the same level she had at the first appearance, so way out of Piccolos league, but also ahead of any base Saiyan. And Shin probably below Gohan. Piccolos remark after forfeiting is as ambiguous as it can be. Clearly Piccolo won't already explain his suspicion to Goku and the mentioned "dimensions" aren't too far-fetched given the god hierarchy. That's definitely Kami reacting there, the Piccolo side never had that kind of reaction, not even with Cell.
Shin is the supreme kai and even though he is a weaker kai he would be as strong as dabura who is his evil counterpart so to speak.
That puts shin around perfect cell level, so super saiyan 1 goku and vegeta would probably destroy him at this stage and ssj2 Gohan. Piccolo would be close to shins level if not a little below
You're forgetting about zenkai boosts homie. Gokus been actively training while he was dead, participating in tournaments alike. AND Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta all got zenkais from the fight with cell
Base vegeta and goku easily beat android 18
I am now upset this isn't how it played out. You absolutely nailed how Toriyama would have written this tournament.
I'm only halfway through and got to the match of Piccolo versus Krillin and I'm glad that you make sure to make Piccolo seem very Kami when he talks with Krillin. It's a nice nod in a reminder that Krillin was once his student.
Honestly this could easily lead into the Majin Buu arc, with the rest of the arc adding on to this narrative throughline of the next generation and bettering one’s self (as Mark mentioned in the video), with the Z-Sword and whole narrative remaining the same, but Goku is the one holding back the Buu threat like the series proper, and then have Gohan come in and defeat the threat as Ultimate Gohan or merge with his father with the Potara earrings like his father did from arcs past.
And if you really wanted to have in someway to have that same fight on the supreme Kai world, just don’t bring back Vegeta after his explosion in the fight with Majin Buu, make Goku save Gohan with instant transmission, and together (with the world champion as he did in the original arc) defeat Kid Buu with Gohan conjuring or perhaps throwing the Spirit Bomb (recalling back to Goku bouncing it off of Gohan in the Sayain Saga).
Then evolve from there.
Vegeta vs 18 rematch would've been so cool. She hurt his pride, so you KNOW he's breaking the "No Super Saiyan" rule immediately. I can just imagine him going SSJ2 right off the bat and showing absolutely zero restraint, saying something like "And to think you gave me trouble once. Now you're just an obstacle. Get outta my way!" and ki-blasting her out of the arena. He just wants to get to Goku as fast as possible.
Vegeta vs jewel was such a climactic and amazing fight ngl.
One of your best videos to date tbh , the only change I would make is Videl not letting her father get away with his lies and telling him furiously that he fight her with the respect she deserves. This could A) be a cool way for Satan to get some growth by seeing how Videl has come and realising he doesn't mind losing to his daughter and B) let Videl also get spotlight in the next generation theme that you've focused on. It also is a nice parallel to Gohan vs Goku where Gohan lost to his father cus he stopped training seriously while Videl won cus she took every chance she could to get stronger .