UNBALANCED - M60 120S - War Thunder
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- Опубликовано: 6 май 2024
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Игры
Another reason to force gunner position in RB aiming rather allowing from inside the gun - it's very easy to hit weak points, making decent armor in some vehicles useless (especially at high tier) at close range.
I actually think I agree with this, it would add a much needed skill layer to top tier tanks especially, however third person aiming is still easy as hell
I 200% agree with it. People complain about getting their barrel shot out all the time, you know what would fix that? Offset gunner sight.
@@Tobias-wb6kd honestly yeah that'd be great, the mechanic is already in the game, in SB u always fire from the actual gun sight position, also, u can't cover the entire turret with bushes, cuz u can't see through them.
@@Tobias-wb6kd hell nah fuck that this game is allready making me mad enough no chance i want another thing to piss me off
And also realistic gunner sights. This can be an advantage/disadvantage for many different vehicles. Some gunner sights have many capabilities and are easy to use, and some are not. Another thing that makes a player have to master a particular vehicle type rather than hopping right in and stomping everyone.
I actually really like this vehicle.
The lack of the turbine makes it a REALLY sneaky tank at top tier. You just have to play the long game.
The turbines quieter than the diesel engines in game. You can’t hear a turbine until they’re atleast a grid square away
It works like how it does irl. Turbine seems really loud which it is, but compared to a typical diesel it has a high frequency sound thus less range to hear it. So it could be an advantage of having a turbine in the game.
pretty sure this thing is supposed to get a 1200hp engine right?
yes
4:57 this vehicle was historically created at a later date, and offered as an upgrade package. That’s also why it has M829A1 and not the standard version.
Yes I do believe it uses an AIM turret
yeah, as an upgrade package its also offered 1500hp engine.
which gaijin just didnt add.
@@krellio9006 bc they lazy
@@bensherohuntershelp-wi4dr if they are lazy, they could just put it on the turkish M60 model
@@krellio9006 if they added it, they’d make it 11.3 cause they hate USA
I'm honestly so happy you stock grind tanks, your one of the only CCS that's opinions IMO are mostly valid due to the fact that there's no bias and you actually sit there and grind from stock which, will be most of the viewers view of the tank
I had hoped for something in the vein of the quite excellent M60 AMBT, but the anemic engine really is troublesome.
I loved playing the 120s. I had a great time even with just m829. 5s reload and a lol pen round at 10.0 made it easy to just click at stuff from distance and follow up on other vehicles
Get the CCVL, run out to get spots or a cap, then come in with the 120S afterwards.
Yea sure bud, let me just fork out some cash for the ccvl
I think spookston said that it had a more powerful engine than the one it currently has. Don't know if it is true, but usually he is right about that kind of stuff.
the actual planned engine, which the turkish M60 later used, is 1500hp
they used the planned turret, planned shell, planned hull upgrade but somehow left out the planned engine
i think its intentional
@@krellio9006 100% intentional, They will ask for 1000 sources for any Nato tank but 1-2 sources or "I made it up" for soviet block tanks
@@aidenrogers1468 true
the heat fs stock grind of this tank is absolutely appaling
This must be 9.7
That was my thought is that it will be down tiered.
they should release the M829A1 and 2nd gen thermal, put it in 9.3
if that goes in a lower br i demand my magach 7c and gal batash to be 9.0
Israel. The tanks with almost the most added protection but the least survivable tree
@@MrJarvisfulmerkavas and magachs are easy to kill😂
@@MrJarvisful could be a better tree if it was with most israel vehicles, although they would mostly be modified west/east tanks, like the t-62 and t-72 or t-55 and etc
Iirc this vehicle is supposed to have a 1200hp engine. 😳
In a downtier, I actually really like 120s lmao
I’m gonna be honest. This just seems like a play styles difference. The 120s is probably one of my favorites. I puts behind the speedsters and fire over their shoulder (tall tank go brr) and the round is more than enough to pen most of the tanks at 10.
It’s one of the few tanks I have that has a positive KD. It forces me to play more reserved. The height and good depression make it great for manipulating cover and hills. It’s just awesome. Speed isn’t everything
Speed is very useful, and speed can make or break a tank. It breaks this tank quite a bit, since everything is so much faster and most maps require you to get into a good position to be effective. There have been numerous times where I have been trying to get to a relatively close spot, but since everything is so much faster (Hilariously faster. I think it's the slowest 10.0 tank in game at the moment), I get destroyed before I make it. If I do make it to a good spot, my turret suffers from being overpressured to death or I get flanked super fast because USA teams do not understand what watching key points are.
Tank would be better with the upgraded engine, without a doubt.
Because they added this, that means that gaijin can add more 'modernised' M60's such as the sabara series of Israeli tanks slapped together for export.
They should have just given it the engine it was planned to have not what the demo model had that didn't need to move. Once again gaijin giving unnecessary nerfs to vehicles
I learned it's another American tank that is only good when it's spaded The last dart has great pen. I had to use it as a back line sniper after getting the laser range finder. Close range sucks which is what most maps are and if you don't have LRF your kinda efed.
imo just give it the DM23 and put it in 9.3 at the same BR as the Super M48
the M829A1 and the 2nd gen thermal is putting this thing out of its capability
or maybe give it the 1500hp planned engine
A tank that completely ignored 2 legs of the tank triangle, mobility and armor. Just upgraded the turret.
Ok-ish IRL when you fight hull-down. Terrible for a game like WT.
There's another iteration which has either a 1000hp or 1100 hp engine
@MJ0383 oh I thought it was, well they've done similar with other vehicles so I see no reason why they can't do it with this one
@@Jadefox32looks at Yak-141 existing
@MJ0383 what difference does that make. they never upgraded the engine on the demo because it didn't need it
@@irontank1236 it was actually because no one bought it so it would have been a waste of money to put it in the demo tank
@@casematecardinal ... yeah it didn't need it
the abrams 5s reload is stupid when you think about it; its basically the same loading as a leopard, but yet somehow quicker. i don’t think i’ve EVER seen a video of abrams gun crews reloading in under 8s. not to mention that, the british had one good thing going for them at the higher br’s which was the fast reload, which is pretty much pointless now the abrams is just better than it in every way in the game. faster, quicker reload, better armour, vastly better mobility and survivability while having a more reliable round. british just get hated on by gaijin far far too much at 10.0+
and then look at italy.
arietes only have better mobility and darts than challengers, with much worse armor (can be penned by a Sherman in hulldown even beyond a km), worse reload, stock HEAT...
also, reload rates on human loaders are just a balancing factor.
5s reload on an abrams is reasonable.
also look at things, like the Ontos, where a single crew member can reload 6 recoilless rifles in 13s.
or the german rocket thing, where a single crew member reloads 10 pieces of rockets in like 15s.
This is all down stream of Germany, Russia, and Sweeden being really op at top tier.
Thank god the cold war didn't heat up
Good thing i didn't grind for it
Super M48 in German tree is 100% much more enjoyable to play than the 120S
Not only it gets upgraded engine, most of the stuff you face dont have enough armor to completely tank DM33.
the turret armor also gives you invulnerability against APDS and HEATFS slingers which is good enough.
Being able to zip around is much better than not being able to zip around.
105mm APDS lolpens the M48 super in the turret even at long ranges
Look at all this COPE, hehe
ropemaxx
minecraft respawn screen irl
perma sleep
have 0/1 kd
Its actually exceptional, your having a skill issue, just go hull down and ignore the mobility issue.
Oh sorry, does everything i just said only apply to the Challenger 2?
I'm pretty sure he brought up how you cant always be hull down. Thats how you lose games. Mobility is king at high br.
tonk
I mean it seems balanced to me. Glass cannon; bad armor, slow speed, amazing gun. It may not be fun to play, but it cleans up enemies well, and can decimate pushes with its fast reload.
I distinctly remeber people bitching about this argument when it was applied to the 292. Funny that
@@casematecardinal292 is not a glass cannon ive bounced so many m900 rounds in it the 292 is only lacking thermals both should be at 10.7 the 120s is supposed to have a 1200hp engine
@@colejones594 10.7? if it gets an uptier everything would easily pen it, it has no ERA protection on it, it only has composite armor and relies mostly on its gun.
it's just a clean t-80 with a better gun, nothing more.
@@colejones594 that's my point. When I had argued that it should be a glass cannon and it shouldn't be about the most survivable tank at its br people got butt hurt.
@@rojevil2829 exactly why it should be at a higher br. It should not be able to rely on its armor period but since everything else at that br is gimped it can happily strut around as one of the easily best defended tanks at the br with the best gun in the game(and I mean the gun itself not the loading system or elevation mechanism) to argue that it wouldn't have good armor at a higher br is oxymoronic because thats the point
Different pixels same gameplay, no new modes .
I loved this thing. Legit just play it differently. Never had most of these issues
People cry when their tank isn’t the best. All tanks have their weak spots and some people can’t handle it
@@ajtheflame9180 weakspots? Nah this tank has strong spots. It's genuinely harder to hit the strong parts than the weak parts of this tank.
@@ajtheflame9180 Yeah nah chief, this tank is mid as fuck compared to some 8.7 vehicles lmao. Genuinely, a Leo A1A1 could absolutely floor the 120S from speed alone making them able to position 5x faster than the 120S could ever hope for. Not to mention, stock HEATFS that does fuck all against 99% of your opposition and a hull that can be killed by 2.0 vehicles easily. It's not a good tank, and it won't be until it gets its mobility upgrade. Even then, it'll be just decent.
Yeah, clearly you don't play it then. Or at the very least, you didn't play it stock. This thing gets schwacked by everything it faces, and sometimes even less than those tanks. Gun is good, turret's good, but you aren't going to get anywhere meaningful anytime soon and you better hope that people go for your turret, but nobody will because everyone has gotten muscle memory to either go for hull shots or turret neck shots. You cannot brawl. You cannot flank. You cannot survive. You can snipe *sometimes* but it's not guaranteed and there are way better options for that anyways.
@@RealStitchie I played all my vehicles stock. It's a great vehicle
I like how much favoritism they show to the 2s38. The hstvl is pretty much at the max b.r. has slightly more pen, a slower fire rate, worse thermals and the entire ammo reserve of the hstvl is the same size as the ready rack of the 2s38. The 2s38 also has a high pen aphe round, proximity fuse round rounds, and a radar tracker. And I would say that the 2s38 is more survivable because of the fuel tanks eating spaul fragments. The 2s38 is the only vehicle that they have refused to put up in br and instead said they will just put more detail into its damage model. LIKE WHAT!!! makes no sense other than them showing favoritism. When I see that I am against 10.0 or higher russia I know we will most likely lose. The only chance you have is if you are near the max br and you have germany on your side.
I guess their reasoning is more pen+smaller hitbox. Best solution would actually be deleting both vehicles cause they don't exist but yeah (except the 2s38 but I don't think it having apfsds is real, as it's a spaa platform)
@@revan22 the hstvl is about as real as it gets. And the 2s38 is also real. They just need to raise the 2s38s br
@@casematecardinal HSTVL : 1 prototype produced, so it has the stats it had on paper. So very probably unrealistic, and probably not working since it got abandoned extremely fast. 2s38: we know it has been produced indeed, as an SPAA platform. Only known shells are proxy he round and apcbc. Not apfsds were ever mentioned, which makes sense considering it a spaa and not an IFV. So it shouldn't have apfsds.
@@revan22 the hstvl had been going through testing for almost a decade. Its stats are not paper stats. That's your made up head cannon. Not to mention it was noted to have no major problems mechanically and even had a few successors to its design. As for the 2s38 I agree it probably shouldn't have apfsds and should lose scouting and become a regular spaa or at the very least limit its apfsds loadout like is done with the otomatic. And all of this should be done after its raised in br. But they won't do that because it's a Russian premium therefore they need to prop it up so they can continue to make money off it.
@@casematecardinal start of project 1977, built 1979, abandoned 1982, probably kept to test stabilizers for other vehicles up to around the mid 80's.
That's 3 years of testing.
Other information: the armor "was believed" to be able to withstand 115mm Soviet rounds. Never tested.
The max speed on road "should reach 83kph". Not proven. The round "was expected to be better than the 105 one". True for experimental ammo, but guess what the HSTVL was scrapped because they went on with projects like the AGS which were deemed more efficient. HSTVL is a single prototype, tested for 3 years with at least 4 different guns, calibers and firing systems. Shells were tested against T-62 mockups and would technically pierce it, now let me remember you that when later the us bought an export T-72, they confirmed they couldn't frontpen it, despite their original testing on mockups saying they "probably" could. HSTVL is a protype, which had expectations. They weren't met, it was replaced, the tank in itself was never thoroughly tested. The main point was the gun and the engine. Gaijin invented the rest. So no it is still a paper tank . As for successors you are right, but it's only on the high survivability aspect. Like mentioned previously, the AGs, or the HIMAG platform one. Which are radically different and don't use the same gun.
Quote all positive stats of the battles he did to spade it... then prossede to complane that it didnt survive most of its battle (while almost stock) and compare its survivability with the broken Leo 2A7 :D
... this sound more like a burn-out/rant, then an objective review...
The snail 🐌 hates America 😢
Yet they have the best planes and were given the most unrealistic 5 sec reload on their MBT? Cope harder.
@@revan22 su27, grippen, mirage: am I a joke to you?
@@casematecardinalyeah? They all have access to worst payloads. American dominated air combat in every way forever, Including top tiers . Maybe the SU-27 can compete a bit but otherwise f-16 are better. Especially in mixed battles.
@@revan22 nope. You obviously don't play top tier arb. The high altitude fight is dominated by Warsaw jets while the low altitude fight is dominated by the gripen. The f16c is still decently competitive just due to its good missile loadout but it's usually going to be at a disadvantage. As for grb the f16c is a great cas platform the only problem is that a pantsir player with even half a brain can essentially spawn camp cas elements or force cap to keep it's head down making the f16 vulnerable to enemy jets.
Literally same issues with TURMS which is worse than 120S, yet nobody calls it bad.
The turms has great armor and definitely has better mobility.
I came out here on behalf of the entire non-US simp community to say: Cry About It
Please don't speak on my behalf. You're too stupid to do so.
Shit take.
Ok? On what exactly?
@@angelrod7689everything? 120s is great at sniping, gets downtiered all the time, excellent pen, optics, and thermals. It's a sniping tank. Hide the hull and having that Abrams turret at 10.0 is a joke. It is good, it just doesn't have mobility and that's it. It's not op and for US players apparently that's hard to cope with.
@@revan22 America hasn't had an "op" mbt since the original m60aos back in the day. Also I'll be sure to bring the hills with me when I have to go cap the point or contest any power areas.
@@casematecardinal that's your problem. Default Abrams reload faster than any tank that isn't an autoloaded one, and aced is faster than autoloader. You also can't tell me first gen Abrams aren't completely overpowered at their tier of 9.3. Abrams are as good as other MBTs, the 120s at 10.0 is no exception, if you dont manage to play them then sorry it's skill issue on your part. As for taking hills with you, yeah sure, remember that england has to deal with the centurion being 35kph max speed at 7.7-8.0, br at which most tanks go around 50-60kph, yet I've never seen them complaining about it nearly as much as us players cry about their tech tree.
@@revan22 the m1 abrams is at 10.3. And last time I checked I'm pretty sure it can't frontally pen certain mbts at 9.3 because of its anemic shell. It's the worst mbt at its br and has a pretty good and neutered lineup around it aswell. Also you're comparing the abrams to the 120s but the 120s plays nothing like the abrams. At least the abrams has some speed and some armor even if it still gets lol penned most of the time these days. You really don't know what you're talking about. As for the centurion, yeah it's slow, thing is it still has or at least had(power creep is really affecting it) some advantages and it's slow speed isn't as much of a problem as many of the tanks it faces aren't that much faster since it still deals with late heavy tanks whereas the 120S sits soldiy in the domain of the mbt which is really bad as at those brs you as the name suggests be the main battle tank ie you need to be able to do any role, and since this game is objective based you need to fulfill the objective which inherently means you need to be mobile and or we'll defended enough to knife fight on and around the objective and be able to secure power positions which also require those abilities. The 120S doesn't have the tools to do that