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AI in Melee is broken.

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  • Опубликовано: 17 авг 2024
  • check out my melee prints at www.frasermake...
    Last year, at Double Down, SluG pulled an insane upset vs the #1 player in the world. But he didn’t do it alone. Today we take a closer look at some of the ins and outs of the secondary Ice Climber, Nana.
    song is "Hero Town" by ‪@Vulf‬
    BUY MY MELEE PRINTS: www.frasermake...
    PATREON: www.patreon.co...
    TWITTER: x.com/fraserli...
    DONATE: www.paypal.com...

Комментарии • 302

  • @michaelfradley6950
    @michaelfradley6950 Год назад +1348

    heh,heh,h,h,e,hhmmm ,,, bimg head nana
    ::)))

    • @PRLCKLY
      @PRLCKLY Год назад +33

      hehehehhee

    • @glowkirby
      @glowkirby Год назад +35

      hehe :3

    • @Grimbaloo
      @Grimbaloo Год назад +12

      Burger

    • @jajajaun
      @jajajaun Год назад +6

      *y u p* (i said that because big head nana said it)

    • @lukethekuya
      @lukethekuya 10 месяцев назад +3

      cacaGODS won

  • @MisterZebra42
    @MisterZebra42 Год назад +2382

    I learned more about Nana from this 5 minute video than I have in 8 years of watching Melee

    • @_Majunior
      @_Majunior Год назад +24

      Fiction has a really good video on her if you're ever curious. Unlike most of his educational content, it's really well edited and has nice illustrations to go along with it.

    • @michaelfradley6950
      @michaelfradley6950 Год назад +22

      Tbf most melee commentators would be 2 games through a bo5 by the time they were through saying all this, and that’s assuming they can project these helpful visuals directly into your brain to speed up the data transfer

    • @_Majunior
      @_Majunior Год назад +12

      @@michaelfradley6950 never mind the fact that most make commentators don't even know this stuff. I always end up muting the commentary when IC are on the screen because they just share misinformation or assume things that are wrong. I'm not blaming them for not knowing but it's pretty annoying when they try to act like it.

    • @Mrfinch9999
      @Mrfinch9999 Год назад +1

      You should try playing it too. Melee is much more fun to play.

    • @nathandude100
      @nathandude100 Год назад

      Same

  • @markg2142
    @markg2142 6 месяцев назад +166

    the level 9 bots are essentially frame perfect 9 year olds

    • @kh6853
      @kh6853 Месяц назад +15

      That is an amazing description of them

  • @Riasiru
    @Riasiru Год назад +333

    Nana grabs you by the throat, smacks you once, and whispers softly in your ear, "Tonight. You," just before she vanishes in a puff of smoke... Truly terrifying.

    • @lasercraft32
      @lasercraft32 4 месяца назад +18

      I would never sleep again.

  • @turndownforwalt
    @turndownforwalt Год назад +675

    Love how you blended your current design work/colors with these explanations. Great work as usual!

  • @elbarnes
    @elbarnes Год назад +145

    I love how, with Zain being so shook from the grab and it getting cut short, it seems like the only thing that prevented Nana from continuing to be a menace is the respawn she goes through where she’s forced to blip out of existence mid-attack to return to popo

    • @andredominguez3199
      @andredominguez3199 Месяц назад +3

      So you're telling me that Nana alone solos the entirety of the Smash Gods?

  • @winkone101
    @winkone101 Год назад +1076

    My heart breaks for HBox. Basically the Melee equivalent of "no one wanted to be my partner, so I had to partner with the teacher".

    • @wolizuka
      @wolizuka Год назад +197

      HBox would be more the type of guy to chose to team up with a CPU rather than with a mid to high level player. I'm sure dozens of people would have been happy to team with him cause he's good at the game and famous

    • @PhrozenFox
      @PhrozenFox Год назад +85

      @@wolizuka He's also just a genuinely cool and good-hearted person in a sea of controller smashers and shit talkers.

    • @leaffinite2001
      @leaffinite2001 11 месяцев назад +31

      ​@PhrozenFox guy who just watched the emplemon doc says what?

    • @bumpersincapped
      @bumpersincapped 11 месяцев назад +21

      ​@@PhrozenFoxbro fainted on stream after a popoff

    • @musicaldoge9412
      @musicaldoge9412 9 месяцев назад +1

      what

  • @B-R23
    @B-R23 Год назад +609

    dude you are so good at editing

  • @vocel343
    @vocel343 Год назад +455

    Nana really grabbed this man, looked him in the eyes and said: "This ain't over. Imma kill you in my next life." And then disappeared
    Striking fear into the heart of Zain.

  • @herobrineharry7698
    @herobrineharry7698 Год назад +331

    3:11 I would be really interested to see if changing this (having Nana at level 9 always being the obvious) would meaningfully change how people have to deal with ice climbers

    • @megapussi
      @megapussi Год назад +2

      It would probably make it a little bit harder to get low% kills on nana, which could end up being relevant considering that killing nana quickly is a really effective strategy to beat icies for most of the cast

    • @hadesthegod9181
      @hadesthegod9181 Год назад +82

      That’s what I’m thinking. Or at least have it be every 10%. As it is, you’re rarely going to get a Nana that grabs (120%+)

    • @bastian_5975
      @bastian_5975 Год назад +32

      two other little tweaks could be to change the follow target for nana to the enemy if popo was in a screen/star KO, and changing the pathfinding AI so that Nana will slightly prioritize paths that get within range of the enemy so that she will attack a bit more often.
      Edit: I reread this while watching a video of Baba is You, and I thought I was talking about characters from that game and got very confused

    • @stephendonovan9084
      @stephendonovan9084 Год назад +23

      @@bastian_5975When the Popo be above 120%: Nana Is Grab

    • @Buglin_Burger7878
      @Buglin_Burger7878 Год назад +16

      Yes because getting them split suddenly makes it 2v1 and level 9 AIs are effective in duos.

  • @matthewwojtechko1946
    @matthewwojtechko1946 Год назад +79

    As a kid playing Melee, observing the CPU’s behavior was always intriguing. Fascinating deep dive here!

  • @ClassicBentobox
    @ClassicBentobox Год назад +99

    What an amazing video. This community sure blows me away sometimes. Very lucky to have creators like you.

    • @colewarnock8694
      @colewarnock8694 Год назад +1

      you prolly already know him but asum saus is very similar and i think this guy definitely takes inspiration from him

  • @ashequestionmark
    @ashequestionmark Год назад +252

    Every single day I miss SluG :(

    • @oatmeal2goskits492
      @oatmeal2goskits492 Год назад +1

      me too buddy

    • @Kitth3n
      @Kitth3n Год назад +12

      What happened to Slug?

    • @ashequestionmark
      @ashequestionmark Год назад +55

      @@Kitth3n retired/is taking a break last I heard

    • @kardar233
      @kardar233 Год назад +2

      I hope MOF is on the come up after that huge 3-0 on jmook

    • @TheRealBlazingDiamond
      @TheRealBlazingDiamond Год назад +42

      ​@@ashequestionmarkOh, is that all? Good for him then, he's touching grass :)

  • @shuraizo2877
    @shuraizo2877 Год назад +36

    Great video, editting and explanation, very clear and understandable!
    Also, I'm glad the music volume is on the same level as your narration, so I don't have to change it every segment of the video

  • @donnyf88
    @donnyf88 Год назад +48

    After years of melee.. I never knew the CPU of Nana..very well done and graphic wise.

  • @halofactorymoon
    @halofactorymoon Год назад +25

    Its cool to see a video visualising the attack sensor ranges! I recently reverse engineered these tables in Smash 64 in order to improve Smash Remix’s AI for their new fighters. I wonder how the tables differ between games.

  • @CrispyGFX
    @CrispyGFX 5 месяцев назад +5

    Nana doing what is effectively a pump fake before dematerializing is the most menacing thing I've ever seen in this game.

  • @k_k_aisa
    @k_k_aisa Год назад +25

    Videos like this are part of what makes Melee special.

  • @cseager3239
    @cseager3239 Год назад +21

    I remember being a kid and knowing that lvl 9 Gannondorf was like the final boss of melee. I never knew until today that professional melee players utilize that as well. I must have played so much as a kid I just intuitively knew that like that was just a far more challenging character to play against.

  • @theradman9478
    @theradman9478 Год назад +25

    Great upload, stellar editing. Actually useful and fun information.

  • @lucasmaciel3850
    @lucasmaciel3850 Год назад +4

    I was listening to a vulfpeck playlist when I clicked on this video. It took me a while to realize that it was also the bgm for the video and not my music app playing over the video lmao

  • @comfy39
    @comfy39 Год назад +8

    Not a melee guy, but the great editing, concise explanations, and good tunes means I spent the last half hour watching every video you have uploaded. Keep it up :)

  • @erikdoer
    @erikdoer Год назад +12

    When the title hit and you cranked up Hero Town I already knew this was gonna be a banger.
    How/when do you decide on the song for each video? Your one on the Jmook recovery was so integrated I couldn't figure out which came first. This is easily the highest effort per-second Smash content currently being made.

  • @alexlowe2054
    @alexlowe2054 7 месяцев назад +2

    1:46 This might have been the best single joke I've seen all month. Excellent pacing and style.

  • @P-MK
    @P-MK 4 месяца назад +2

    Found ya from the GDIME #7 shoutout! Had to browse through a lot of comments to reach your channel but MAN it was worth it, these visuals are so good!!
    p.s., The prints are really pretty and unique and there's even a hint of inspiration from the main man himself in there! Love to see it :D

  • @forestskilbred9461
    @forestskilbred9461 Год назад +8

    The editing was so good here, awesome job and great video

  • @lucianpayne5158
    @lucianpayne5158 7 месяцев назад +1

    love the song choice! I never thought I’d hear this in the background of a video, I thought it’d be too distracting, but you just happen to be an excellent visual storyteller. awesome!

  • @Dabrebro
    @Dabrebro Год назад +2

    Good choice with the Vulfpeck! Love the visuals, editing and sound mixing, good work!

  • @Duffy_SSBM
    @Duffy_SSBM Год назад +3

    Absolutely loving your stuff. The art is sick but I wish there were higher res/more zoomed in images! I want to see what the Melee is hard poster says for example

    • @MeleeMoments
      @MeleeMoments  Год назад +4

      good point, i’m realizing there’s not really a central place to find full-res images of the art. i’m going to look into putting those on the website, in the meantime if you go back a few months on my twitter media tab you can see them that way. the melee is hard one was posted on may 17th

    • @Duffy_SSBM
      @Duffy_SSBM Год назад

      @@MeleeMoments awesome, thanks for the reply!

  • @zyst6
    @zyst6 Год назад +3

    This is the best explanation of IC mechanics I've ever seen. Great job! Really love your videos

  • @davidvkimball
    @davidvkimball Год назад +2

    One of the best Melee videos I've seen in a while. Great job.

  • @Blundabus1337
    @Blundabus1337 Год назад +3

    nana when popo is at 0%:
    mmm crayons
    nana when popo is at 140%:
    SO THOU HAS CHOSEN DEATH

  • @TheRealBrandonPerna
    @TheRealBrandonPerna Год назад +2

    First video of yours I’ve seen and I’m excited to see more. Great stuff man, this was super interesting and well made

  • @sagacious03
    @sagacious03 Год назад +1

    Very interesting analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
    I didn't know about a lot of this level moves stuff, & would love to hear more!

  • @ARavingLobster
    @ARavingLobster Год назад +2

    Bro I swear every video you just get better and better, keep it up! :D

  • @emmbeesea
    @emmbeesea Год назад +2

    Absolutely delightful and insightful.
    Can't wait for the next one!

  • @Wolfboy607
    @Wolfboy607 Месяц назад

    holy shit, when me and the boys were kids, we would 1v3 the level 9, HANDICAP 9 coms. It was insane. We made it a game, we started at mario, beat him on every level like that, then moved on. Some smash moves have retained the names we gave them in fear as children. Gannon was one of the first true monsters we ran into. He would nail you with the "chicken wing" from out of nowhere and send you packing at like 40%.
    Holy fuck i miss melee handicap just being a giga-roids buff. In brawl and later, instead of it being a buff, now the handicap applies to yourself, and all it does is increase your starting percentage.

  • @gbowers123
    @gbowers123 Год назад +1

    Welcome back. My favourite Melee channel on RUclips.

  • @hadesthegod9181
    @hadesthegod9181 Год назад +2

    Amazing video. I think we’re all in agreement: Why didn’t any of us know this sooner? I’ve been picking up esoteric Melee knowledge from RUclips and forums for 10 years, and I never knew any of this.

  • @archonicmakes
    @archonicmakes Год назад +1

    these videos explain things well and are impeccably edited. keep it up dude! :)

  • @scala_xl
    @scala_xl Год назад +2

    The graphic design on these transitions are top-notch 💯

  • @MrSlowpez10
    @MrSlowpez10 Год назад +1

    So much good info presented so well. Idk how you do it, but it must take so much work

  • @PrismsDesign
    @PrismsDesign Год назад +1

    Wow, this was such an incredible video. I learned so much here. Amazing stuff man, criminally underrated

  • @user-nb5hl3qd2m
    @user-nb5hl3qd2m 5 месяцев назад +1

    I can’t believe nana is rarely going to be able to grab, she legit going to stay around 1-5.

  • @azurecerulean1279
    @azurecerulean1279 Год назад

    i discovered this in my recommended and im shocked with how great the editing is

  • @ARobloxBedwarsUser
    @ARobloxBedwarsUser Месяц назад

    "here's where zain makes his crucial mistake" *proceeds to get pummeled 1 singular time*

  • @The23rdGamer
    @The23rdGamer Год назад +2

    I don't watch much smash at all, but this was excellent presentation! I may have to check out more from your channel.

  • @notwhoyouare1543
    @notwhoyouare1543 Год назад +3

    you always deliver with some sick shit brodi, big ups.

  • @rengarrengar9417
    @rengarrengar9417 Год назад

    I've never seen such a video for melee, it's really amazing ! Gj dude !

  • @CopperScott
    @CopperScott Год назад

    Bro, this was awesome! I love learning new stuff about the game like this

  • @therealwhite
    @therealwhite 5 месяцев назад

    Dude starts out with Hero Town in the background you know I'm gonna give a like

  • @EtropolisGhost
    @EtropolisGhost Месяц назад

    i don't know why but 2:30 is just the funniest looking thing to me

  • @morosepapaya
    @morosepapaya Год назад

    Sweet visuals and great explanations. Here's a sub, you deserve many more

  • @CheeTheOG
    @CheeTheOG Год назад +13

    Very informative on how Nana's AI works didn't know that she increased her level by the amount of percentage Popo has
    I also miss Slug :(

  • @steviebea
    @steviebea Год назад

    this is insanely well produced and interesting! well done!

  • @salvatoreIII
    @salvatoreIII Год назад

    Very educational. Never knew about different moves being unavailable to the cpus at lower levels.

  • @Sagi.Baten.Kaitos
    @Sagi.Baten.Kaitos Год назад

    >Vulfpeck music
    I can already tell I'm gonna like this video

  • @heckensteiner4713
    @heckensteiner4713 Год назад

    Great video! It's insane that people are analyzing and playing this game this hard 22 years later.

  • @RamadaArtist
    @RamadaArtist 9 месяцев назад

    The rapid short range attacking and frame-perfect inputs that lvl 9 AIs are capable of means that they tend to be much harder to fight if you use the strategies you would against a top level player, instead of simply exploiting how dumb they are about navigating the space. Peach in particular can be absolutely brutal and pull off 50% combos with alarming speed if you try and rush into her face and get really aggressive.
    (Which was very useful for trying to figure out strategies with Roy that actually help his approach. For one, dashing into a side-B is infinitely safer than his standard dash attack, because the dash attack has a very short window for it's hitbox, and Roy's own hurtbox extends past the attack distance, meaning if you try to use it for approach he'll usually whiff AND run into an attack. Dashing side-b immediately halts his momentum and is a good opener for his combos; dashing side-b to grab to back throw to side smash is highly effective against the space animals. The terrible range and low knockback on his dash attack actually makes it much better as a mid-combo move than an approach.)

  • @milesnorris732
    @milesnorris732 9 месяцев назад

    The only hero in this town is you for your song choices ❤

  • @SirNarax
    @SirNarax 5 месяцев назад

    1:47 I really liked that.

  • @basicdamine
    @basicdamine Год назад

    Nana: "Imma about to ends this whole man's career"

  • @erikrutledge4940
    @erikrutledge4940 Год назад

    Melee and Vulfpeck, you sir have earned a subscription

  • @lboy9889
    @lboy9889 Год назад

    Smash x Vulf is the crossover I've always wanted

  • @nya69
    @nya69 Год назад +2

    its so insane how much they gutted nanas ai in ult, just get to popo by any means necessary usually straight into the opponent with no attack or airdodging to ledge as u try to upb to save her..

    • @KopperNeoman
      @KopperNeoman 7 месяцев назад

      Probably because Ultimate's AI is smart enough that slipping Nana out of follow state would actually HELP the IC player rather than screwing him over.

  • @HarmonicVector
    @HarmonicVector 11 месяцев назад

    "Nana will always recover towards Randall."
    All hail the AI Overlord, Randall!

  • @BlobstoF
    @BlobstoF Год назад

    That was. SPECTACULAR. I'm subbing right now

  • @Swing_Bonnie
    @Swing_Bonnie Год назад

    I love the new visual design

  • @trollof229antthevariable9
    @trollof229antthevariable9 6 месяцев назад

    Excellent production value

  • @ohithur
    @ohithur Год назад

    Awesome stuff as usual. Just bought a couple stickers too. Keep up the good work!

  • @whydoyougottahavthis
    @whydoyougottahavthis Год назад

    The slight UP music you played with the Luigi joke was fucking perfect 😂😂😂

  • @just-linx8271
    @just-linx8271 Год назад

    This is well produced! Nice work.

  • @jwalkrr2710
    @jwalkrr2710 9 месяцев назад

    good ole Vulfpeck always bangs

  • @rockzyk1291
    @rockzyk1291 2 месяца назад

    SICK song choice. Amazing band.

  • @Sugar3Glider
    @Sugar3Glider Год назад

    Ooo, this was **exceptionally** informative

  • @tacolordc
    @tacolordc Год назад +1

    The fact that SluG disappeared from the community almost immediately after becoming a top dog is quite funny to me.

  • @yousseftamer4943
    @yousseftamer4943 Год назад

    Holy… I didn’t expect Nana of all characters to be so goddamn BROKEN

  • @raffshot
    @raffshot Год назад

    great video and i loved the vulfpeck as the music

  • @electromagneticlemon
    @electromagneticlemon Год назад

    1:50 me sowing, me reaping

  • @Bluzlbee
    @Bluzlbee Год назад

    back when I had no one to verse and started my anime arc for getting good at fighting games, every day after school, after homework, I booted the gamecube and fought level 9 computers on final destination

  • @darlingj.canela
    @darlingj.canela Год назад

    Slug, Popo and Nana it's the name of the album. Great video.

  • @Doggowithasubmarine
    @Doggowithasubmarine Год назад +1

    Anyone got a link to the 2v2 where Hungrybox is playing with a lv9 ganon?

  • @vipermoon_
    @vipermoon_ 6 месяцев назад

    Now I finally know how the CPUs work, thank you!

  • @seanmakesthings
    @seanmakesthings 4 месяца назад

    Such a rad breakdown!

  • @Topaz-zk4zk
    @Topaz-zk4zk 6 месяцев назад +1

    Does Nana's dynamic AI carry over to Brawl and Ultimate? Surely they are tweaks, so if so, what are they?

  • @danede3635
    @danede3635 Год назад +1

    I sometimes wonder if ai works like it's always scanning the situation constantly pressing moves. The level tells it whether to actually input the attack

  • @ciarzyx
    @ciarzyx Год назад

    Appreciate the Vulfpeck!

  • @matthiasrieke1427
    @matthiasrieke1427 6 месяцев назад

    great quality of videos !

  • @TheDuckChris
    @TheDuckChris Год назад

    Wow a new greatest youtube video of all time thats nuts

  • @benstoller2335
    @benstoller2335 Год назад

    Great editing, great music, great knowledge

  • @3ricbae
    @3ricbae Год назад +1

    the goat uploads again

  • @WorstRivenNA
    @WorstRivenNA Год назад

    Great editing and presentation!

  • @The_Tsukuyomi
    @The_Tsukuyomi 2 месяца назад

    Had no idea the cloud was named Randall

  • @slideguitarclem
    @slideguitarclem Год назад +1

    Thumbs UP for vulfpeck

  • @shiina4861
    @shiina4861 Год назад

    another absolutely incredible video, one of the best channels in gaming

  • @andrew3692
    @andrew3692 Год назад

    oh man im not sure if i ever saw the full sequence play though idk what I saw even though i learned so much 😢

  • @bryce_in_bloom3592
    @bryce_in_bloom3592 Год назад

    Subscribing because of quality, but I'm telling my friends it was Vulfpeck.

  • @froG_SSBM
    @froG_SSBM Год назад +3

    man, I miss slug

  • @mammaspojke9813
    @mammaspojke9813 Год назад

    Amazing editing

  • @MarMaxGaming
    @MarMaxGaming Год назад

    This 5 min video must’ve taken at least 10 hours… great job!