Install a Dual Sync Distributor and MSD Box to a Terminator X Foxbody Mustang
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- Johns car has been experiencing a high RPM misfire. Granted his engine is quite stout but we were thinking the original TFI distributor might be struggling with the 7000rpm redline.
We install a MSD/Holley Dual Sync distributor and a MSD 6A ignition box to his car. With it running on a Holley Terminator X computer system this changeover is quite easy with a bit of wiring and a few clicks of the keyboard.
You should also perform a static timing check when it's all buttoned up before driving or tuning.
If there is any additional bits of information you would like to know about the installation, please feel free to leave a comment.
![Chlöe - Shake (Feat. Jeremih) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/aDs_1ufpfv8/mqdefault.jpg)
I saw in the other video ya all made with his car on the dyno that it had a billet camshaft. You might want to change it to brass. Also love the videos I’ve learned a few things. Thanks
I've done brass. Done melonized. Done steel. The main items that I've seen that cause excessive gear wear from running a billet camshaft are high volume/pressure oil pumps and-or thick engine oils. Cold taching an engine is right up there with dumb stuff to do to an motor as well. In the end time will tell how it will fare but there will always be some level of wear.
@@Mike-FoxsAbroad this is true jus wanted to bring light to it.. and good job on the vids
Stick...isn't it great that we finally are in one place long enough to get our motorhead on?...have a great TSgt here at Mother Rucker w3rd FTS that has that 68 Camaro...hes helping me get my LS squared away...love what u n Zapp are doing...love the foxbodies too...just sold the 327 with the TH350 trans...LS and Tk56 about to go in ...
Hey Jim. Nice to see you here. Not sure what computer system you are planning on using with that LS as I know there are loads of options for you. The Holley Terminator is super dialed in for GM stuff.
Jinro! It is great to be able to get the car going but certainly couldn't have done it over here without the help of Mike and Pete. It sure has been expensive though! Curious to see how the LS swap goes for you but these days it should be pretty straight-forward.
Nice upgrade and money well spent for sure! I hope not to offend anyone here and am only looking to give advice if you're open to take it? From what I seen at a glance up you could stand to remove at least 20% of fuel at idle. If this is still the base fuel map I'd be willing to bet that will be the trend throughout the entire table as well. In my opinion that transfer and smooth method is almost unreliable and takes way longer to prefect than it should! If possible, you'll have faster and greater success sitting in the passenger seat real time tuning with learn turned off. (So long as you can trust the driving ability of your buddy!!) LOL
Thanks. We certainly do not claim to be experts. There are no good dyno's here in the UK where we could get anyone familiar with this software. We were both tuned by a semi local guy but that was more to ensure we were not going to blow it up than anything else. They certainly didn't do much in regards to drivability and only concentrated on WOT stuff. When we start driving them more this spring/summer we hope to do a better job of dialing things in. Now with the better spark the short term fuel trim is already trying to pull some fuel.
It does learn slow, and we have more work to do but driving with the learning "off" right now is almost impossible with the roads over here, especially this time of year. That said, I'd rather it be rich than lean for the learning. Maybe as the weather gets nicer, Mike and I can get it out and do just that but we are also still learning the system too. Any feedback you have from experience is certainly welcomed by me as I'd love to dial this car in more. It makes great power for a small NA combination and I'm even more impressed with the fat power band. FTI nailed it with the custom grind cam.
@johnhickman106 I get it buddy, my cars don't even come out in bad weather! Lol
I'll give all the advice I can to a SBF Fox!! You are absolutely correct, it is better to be rich than lean. What I seen is CL pulling 20+% at idle. That's a bit excessive, I'd recommend pulling 15% from the base table say from 70kpa out to 2000rpm, give it another go and see if CL is still pulling 5% or so. If so you know you're on the right track. Also If you would like feel free to send me a data log. I'd be happy to look over it and give suggestions or make corrections and send it back.
@@jasonbrinegar6759 I appreciate it. I may pull a log the next time I'm out with it.
@@jasonbrinegar6759 Also remember what you saw in this video was a cold start. It was not warmed up at all and we didn't give it any additional time to run being it was so late at night.
Those plug leads will fit my cap nicely John 🤪
They sure will, but not until I wear them out first 😀
I'm getting ready to do this and I've seen some complaints of the stock fuel rail crossover line interfering with the distributor install. It didn't look like you changed the fuel line but just wanted to see if you had any issues with that?
I’ve done this on two cars. Neither was a concern about it being close to the fuel crossover to worry about.
Great video, nice job on the install...did you make sure to SYNC the timing with a "timing light" after you got it started? You have to make sure the timing light number at the crank matches the static timing check number you set in the software at idle and at higher RPM to make sure you don't need to adjust the inductive delay. In the video, you just stabbed the distributor, and did the LED setup then just fired it up and never showed the timing light sync check, unless I missed it?
We did a cursory timing check after the install, but it was dead nutz on. Setting the distributor at 50° is a dialed in procedure for the Dual Sync as it's worked on this car and on my personal car without issue. The inductive delay is pre-set by the Holley software when you select the Dual Sync in the settings. You could maybe adjust it if you felt the need but ours both were happy with the default numbers.
@@Mike-FoxsAbroad Cool I'm with ya! You got lucky...as long as your Terminator commanded timing and what you see on the balancer with timing light are matched up then you're golden. Yes the 50° is the built in reference angle for the Dual Sync and is distributor/platform specific so you must have gotten lucky that your cap/rotor phasing landed perfectly and you didn't need to tweak the distributor housing at all to get them matched up with timing light readings. 👍
@@frankconte5545 i agree got lucky on that one, you always must,must sync the timming static timming. llluuuuccccckkkkyyyyyyyy.
I’m currently building a sbf for my street truck. Will the tfi distributor be okay, or do you recommend the dual sync? Also, is it a direct plug n play with the terminator x or would I still have to wire some things up? Not running a CD box. Only looking at 350-400 hp on my build. Thanks in advance.
The TFI will get you going and be just fine. Only you can determine if the TFI is not working out for you or you've outgrown it. The dual sync is half plug and play. I directly takes the place of the TFI distributor but it will not work without an aftermarket ignition box like a MSD 6A.
How's the electric water pump on the street? Always been curious about running those myself. I had terrible luck with MSD boxes. So sensitive. Hopefully the qaulity has gotten better. Good call on the shock absorbers....mandatory, lol. They don't like heat either. That cars turning out awesome . Be awesome to pull up to a bar in that thing lol
His electric pump is probably the most expensive (non essential) part on his car. It is controlled by the Terminator X via the MSD solid state relay and is essentially seamless in the way it operates. No issues on the street. The Terminator is also controlling both of the cooling fans in the same way. One kicks on at approx 185deg, the second at 200deg.
Ive never had an MSD box go bad. I even have an original MSD 6200 on my Mach 1 still going strong. I did have my Dual Sync go bad on me. No idea why but I did have the original rubber distributor boot installed at the time. Thinking it maybe got too hot? Don't know. Either way, Summit Racing replaced it for free no questions asked.
Hey Jimmy! As Mike said, it certainly wasn't necessary but I wanted as little drag as possible on the motor. The water pump has been great so far. Hopefully the MSD will hold up. I just ordered a new coil as well so hopefully that will clean up any issues. I'm also waiting on the new 255lph pump, though it's overkill for this application.
@John Hickman yeah I am sure you will be fine. I think msd had a bad batch at that time because I went through 3 in rapid succession but the third one lasted the rest of the time I had the truck. Results vary . I asked my dyno guy recently if anyone is making rock solid boxes like msd in the 70s ...his response....they are all $h/t lol. Summit replaced all of mine no questions asked though. I really dig that water pump. I have often considered running one. Just havent.. I will eventually
@@timelesssteelgarage I remember the issues you had with the truck. I even drove a new distributor up to on the exit of I10 when you came to visit me!
@@johnhickman106 thank God. A very early date with my now wife. She scored a keeper point that day lol
So I bought this exact same combo I’m running a stock 302 with terminatorX and it runs great but I want to make it more reliable for my high school son, so I’m ditching the tfi and going this route. Just wanted to know how has it been running for you ? Are these distributors good for daily drivers ?
It’s been running great on John’s car and on mine for over this whole year. You can always keep the TFI and wiring harness in case the Dual Sync gives you trouble. Not hard to switch back if needed.
It's been fantastic. No issues.
Was the length of the dual sync wire too long for the harness ? Good video
It was about perfect. Never really thought about it actually.
Newbie question but with this set up, it does not need a tfi module anymore?
The Dual Sync distributor and MSD box eliminate the need for the stock TFI distributor and the issues that come with them.
@@Mike-FoxsAbroad I appreciate you 🙏
I was told with the universal terminator x and the dual sync distributor a cd box isn’t needed
We are running the foxbody Terminator X. Not sure if the universal one is different.
If I’m running a Terminator x and a MSD ignition box already, would I just have to plug the dual sync into my terminator x harness and update the tune? Did you just tuck the tfi module harness away after this upgrade?
The Dual Sync distributor's wiring harness takes the place of the TFI harness. There will be no leftover harness to tuck away.
Thank you!@@Mike-FoxsAbroad
@@Mike-FoxsAbroad One last question since I am tackling this install tomorrow. What did you do with the white wire that was running from the TFI adapter harness when you installed the Dual Sync distributor? Does that wire just get left unused/removed? Thanks again!
@@nicksolimini9393 It's no longer used and can be disconnected from the negative side of the coil. The TFI harness and the TFIs EFI settings use that wire to sense the ignition events and extrapolate an engine RPM signal. With the Dual Sync that gets taken care of in its own harness. But the white wire that you need to fish out of the main harness (@6:38) is now used for an output to the MSD box and the signal wire to the tachometer. With a one signal/one spark of a stock ignition system, that TFI harness was ok. But with multiple spark output from the MSD box, the computer/tachometer needs a different setup to work properly. I hope I didn't confuse you.
@@Mike-FoxsAbroad Which harness is the white wire? I see a white wire in my harness, but it is going to the Injector Harness. EDIT* Found it, it was cut off almost all the way back down by the ECU.
Did you have to prune, cut and remove connectors on this Holley Ford small block Terminator universal harness to make this fit?. Or did you just leave harness as is and ziptie out of the way? My tech said he charges another $500 to prune, cut, and remove not used connectors and wires to make it fit nice on my 68 Mustang, or he can just keep harness as is and ziptie out of the way. Just curious what you did. Personally i dont like cutting anything on a new Harness period.
We used the original (discontinued) foxbody Terminator X kit. It did not have many extra connectors. $500 seems a bit steep for something you could do yourself in an afternoon.
Confused why you pointed #1 at the back driver side? Isn’t #1 the front pass cylinder
I was pointing to where the #1 spark plug wire would be on the distributor cap. It's usually at the 12:00-1:00 position looking at the distributor, when looking at it from in front of the radiator.
I don't understand either. #1 cylinder terminal is always around 11 o'clock
@@aceryas Not the terminal, but where the rotor is at TDC for #1.