Battle (rifle) Royale
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2024
- Please, make it stop, my camera man begs you.
Today, me and @Hoplopfheil take a look at 4 Battle Rifles we've been running over the last year.
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This seems like a fun conversation, I wish I could remember having it
*caresses “aNtiQuE” Battle Raifus* 🥺
He didn’t mean it. He can’t hurt you.
Since you seem to like the 716, have you considered reviewing a 516? Or any other piston 5.56 ARs? Love my 516 even though it is heavy as shit
One of these days he'll make a video where he has a wacky chat with twelvelabs hopAI and you'll be convinced it was really you and you just don't remember.
Surprised there was no drunken rambling regarding the Tavor 7
LOL, ngl, this was great stuff. I would ask for more, but don't wish to contribute to your alcoholism.
I like to imagine that there was an 18th century version of this content where two colonial bros were out in the woods debating the merits of the various patterns of brown bess and then posting pamphlets on it.
Mega based colonists
Nah Kentucky Rifle.
@@Jkp1321 point of fact good sir, but the Kentucky rifle was deemed unsuitable as a combat arm due to the slow and laborious loading procedure, even General Washington discouraged militia under his command from using them. Just like today it is not accuracy that wins battles but rather a volume of fire.
@@History_Coffee was there a different rifle available? Because regardless of loading procedure the accuracy at distance of a rifle was very valuable to support the continental army
@@Jkp1321 well the Kentucky rifle itself wasn't actually a Kentucky rifle it was the Pennsylvania rifle. It didn't get Kentucky associated with it until later. Fielding rifleman specifically in the roll of skirmishers was still very experimental, the British fielded a small unit under Ferguson. The fame of the colonial rifle comes from the battle of kings mountain in South Carolina were a large group of Appalachian militia ambushed the British and completely destroyed them using their hunting rifles. The whole meme of the American and his long rifle was truly forged after the battle of new Orleans in the war of 1812 and it was after that the army actually started issuing rifle muskets.
I hear good things about SFAR, but I own Ruger's discontinued SR-762 (which I love). When my extractor broke, their customer support was acting like it's their abusive ex. All I got from them was "Parts are proprietary, and we don't make it anymore." I asked about compatibility, and got no response. Found out from a forum that they use DPMS pattern bolts and bought an extractor from Brownell's. So as much as I want to try the SFAR, I'm not touching another Ruger's "hot new shit" product with a barge pole.
I cannot understand why some companies treat customers the way you were treated by Ruger. I have had similar experiences with both Cor-Bon and Remington. Had 2 rounds in box of Cor-Bon .45 ACPs where the bullets pushed back into the brass the first time they were chambered. Called Cor-Bon CS, politely said perhaps the machine missed a step after the brass was belled, they told me not to chamber the same round over and over. Bought a new 870, gun would not eject the #7 steel shells used at my skeet range, Remington told me I must be short stroking. Really? Every time? Told them it was strange I wasn't short stroking any lead shot. Makes you wonder if they want to go bankrupt. Well, actually, they did, didn't they?
Recently got one and first time at the range couldn’t cycle more than 2 rounds. Extremely underpasses even on the highest gas setting, gonna give it another shot before I send it back for warranty
A couple trips ago at the range, a guy was shooting an SFAR. I asked him how he liked it, how the recoil impulse felt, how manageable the package. Didn't ask to handle or shoot it and he didn't offer. We chatted on the 300yds walk to the targets & back. His general impression was that it shot way softer than he expected, much more controllable than he expected, when deciding to get the SFAR. He had .308 bolt rifle experience for many years, he was an older guy, many years shooting & hunting. His targets looked pretty good for what he was doing -- still figuring out what ammo it liked.
Really surprised to hear that from Ruger...they have always had outstanding customer service from what I've experienced and what my friends have experienced. It could just be down to the fact that it's discontinued and they don't have the parts to fix it themselves but they could have atleast reimbursed you for the extractor you bought. Had a friend who's factory rear sight broke off his old 1980's Ruger super Blackhawk 44mag when he was shooting some really hot loads and they fixed it for free and sent it back to him with an extra set of grips at no charge!
Interesting. In contrast, I called up Armalite asking for parts and mags for their old pattern AR-10B which has been out of production for almost a decade, and they were happy to help me out with everything I needed. They still support their old discontinued products and still even produce the old pattern magazines today.
I went to AKs 8 years ago after realizing what I would spend on ammo, jokes on me now huh?
Everyone overestimated supply and assumed we were safe forever because so many countries use it. Whoops.
I brought my first ak for the same reason
Guys who did that are the same ones that think XDs are "betta thanna Glack"
That's why I bought a pre ban .308 Saiga
@@Grooove_e mine is 7.62x39
Another Brass&Hop therapy session.
Scar 17 expensive? I raise you KAC SR-25 price gouging.
But the scar is dog and the kac is bad ass but overpriced
Scar 17 is the way
@@gus808 Maybe part2? KAC, LMT, PSA, Daniel Defense, Zastava M77
When archeologists dig your stomping grounds up in 500 years, they're going to think the biggest small arms battle ever was fought there.
Pro-tip on the AR10 platform: use the Vltor A5 buffer tube, Springco rifle length orange spring, PWS ar15 length H3 or H4 buffer will solve a majority of the gas problems both suppressed or unsuppressed. Adj gas block for more tuning.
Listen to him 1000 percent!! My 18” M5 is built the same. So smooth and eats everything!
Those springco orange springs are the shit
I just went with a piston ar10 and avoided all of that.
This is great advice! Thank you!
Or you can use an Armalite pattern receiver extension (longer than DPMS pattern, same concept as A5) and use a full size AR15 buffer. And as mentioned the sprinco orange is the shiz for AR308.
Hop is correct about the SCAR's muzzle break. I took mine off and put a SF 3 prong and holy shit, completely different weapon. Even with the can, the recoil impulse is significantly more violent than with the break.
It's a much bigger difference than felt on 5.56 braked or non-braked. In 6.5 Grendel it's a noticeable impulse difference from braked to flash hider A2 style device. My .308 bolt rifle came with a brake and I've never shot it without. Braked, it's about the same impulse as the 6.5 Grendel unbraked (but Grendel is in semi-auto, so slightly different impulse there too).
same on the pws 308's👍
thats why you get a adjustable gas block for it.
i took scar muzzle brake off because it rang my ears with double ear pro. now its tuned with a gas jet and a can, still more kick than the brake but very manageable.
"Hey stop skipping forward" ... genius advertising technique cause it actually worked on me. lol
I owned a SCAR 17 for a hot minute. It was very, very cool. But I sold it and used the money to put together a LR-308 with quality mid to high end parts. I have been more pleased with the performance, and I had a bunch of money left over for optics and ammo. All that being said, just stick with a nice accurate 5.56 "SPR" build and put all the money you save into more 75gr/77gr ammo.
Well said.
..I HAVE a SCAR 17..and I agree with your post…BUT I also WON’T be letting it go ANY time soon. IF somebody “WANTS something different, AND HAS A SCAR”, by all means. YOU could sell it TODAY. Therein lies the PROOF that they are STILL hot.
@@m118lrYou sure you added enough caps lock there?
Picking calibers involved a whole bunch of logic circles that always lead back to "just build another 5.56"
I tend to think an intermediate cartridge in the 6-7mm range is superior to both 5.56 and 7.62, but those are all less common and more expensive. If a major military or LE doesn't adopt it, its going to have cost/logistics issues. BR's are just too heavy, expensive to feed, and have less volume of fire than intermediate caliber's. Always end up back at 5.56, with x39 as the only really notable alternative.
Unless you are really building a proper DMR/SAPR/Sniper whatever you want to call it, a rifle that is focused on 600+ yard shooting, 5.56 wins. And very few of us are *focused* on long range shooting. The few who need it know who they are already.
But that wouldn't get me another gun to shoot.
Love the constant content recently from the 2 of you
I think the "Does a battle rifle even exist?" conversation is one definitely worth having.
I feel like most people when asked to describe a "battle rifle" either describe a designated marksman rifle, or describe a sub 200 yard "brush gun" which could be equally achieved with x39 or .300blk.
I want an AR-10 upper optimized for heat management that will feed belt linked .308 with a binary trigger. The best use for .308 is "f your cover"
next 308 video is the the BR POU.
IMO a good "battle rifle" is a 14.5"-16" .308 that can make effective hits out to 600yds. I've always thought of a battle rifle as being able to fill multiple roles while not exceeding in any particular category
@@Grooove_e5.56 in SBR configurations will reach out to 600yds.
What you're describing is a GPR, which brassfacts has lots of good content on.
I used to think that I wanted the range and accuracy from .308 in my GPR, but he made a point that made me do a complete 180°
Ammo capacity.
Ammo capacity is what wins a firefight.
It's not difficult, especially if you eschew the autistic nuspeak titles and labels these guys put on guns. Battle rifles are infantry rifles in a full-size full-power rifle caliber. Like .308/7.62 NATO, 30-06, etc. Battle rifles exist. I don't even see how this is even a question. "Do hunting rifles even exist?" The fuck? Of course they do.
I love BrassFacts and Hoplophile, but they do tend to spin their wheels on some subjects. They have admitted this. And I believe such a question is spinning wheels pointlessly too.
@@remainingrex9471 While a short barrel 5.56 will indeed "reach out to 600 yards", what it does once it gets there leaves a lot to be desired.
Unless you sole use is punching holes in paper targets.
If you’re willing to upgrade it with aftermarket parts like an RS Regulate mount and SLR rail, the Zastava M77 is an interesting option.
Last year I put together a PSA AR10 in 6.5 creedmoor. I was giving me issues due to bad headspaceing from a plated bolt. Once I switched bolts it’s ran fine, a more finely adjustable gas port helps. I won in my division (of three people) at my first competition. The ammo cost is the biggest killer of a battle rifle concept.
Yes, SOTAR had a video on coatings causing problems with headspacing, extractor functioning, etc. He recommended to stick with mil spec
Best to get barrel & headspaced bolt at the same time, to avoid that situation. On my first upper build I had similar headspace problems with one mfr's barrel and a different mfr's bolt in 6.5 Grendel. The solution was to use the bolt that the barrel maker's chamber cut/barrel extension intended. I always buy barrel & bolt together now.
I ran the ballistics and beyond 300-400 yards, 6.5 is faster, carries more energy, and cheats the wind better.
@@5jjt I think that coatings issue was part of why the Springfield Prodigy had a rough market entry -- the coating thickness sometimes went past spec, created friction where there should be free space, and the pistols were running sluggish as a result. Not the same thing as coatings on a bolt, but the same tolerance stacking issue.
I have an 18" M5 Aero and it works fine with the experience I have with it so far. I had an Aero adjustable gas block on it and that was a mistake as it caused a lot of issues so I went back to stock. It shoots best with 150 ish grain weights. But yeah I get the frustration with 308 and how it makes you want to just stick with an AR15.
I love the Hop and Brass Facts videos. One quick note on POF. I own four revolution 308 rifles (12.5 SBR, 14.5 P&W, and two 16s. All four run flawlessly on all ammo and all rifles are sub MOA. And I’m not a great shooter. These guns are awesome. Expensive but awesome. The Rogue is great as well, but only if you get the adjustable gas block with it. I have a Rogue in 6.5CM with an adjustable block and it is super accurate as well.
I have news for you, if all your rifles are consistently under a minute, you’re a consistent shooter. Congrats and Shalom(:
I own 4 POF-USA rifles as well, and ABSOLUTELY LOVE THEM! I have a Revolution 12.5" Piston version, a P308 EDGE 16", a P415 EDGE 5.56 10.5", and a RenegadePlus 10.5" in .300blk. They are great guns!
Yep, Rogue owner here. Fantastic AR308 small frame rifle. Also POF's are not expensive when compared to what's out there. The Rogue is $1600.
@@vmpgsc Yup got my Rogue 12.5" for $1400...! added that adjustable gas block for $88... Runs flawless!
First off, I am 100% going to buy some of those waffle-toppers. I have a top/bottom set in navy blue that I use for going deer hunting, but they don't have the zipper at the neck, which would be FANTASTIC for adjusting breathability! Thanks for the Nova pupper modeling. 🥰
Limp-carrying Nova Pupper is good training... I'm sure she thinks it needs to happen more often, LOL.
Would love to see the PSA .308/AR-10 in the line-up (mostly because it's what I have compared to those... and sold my CETME, for obvious reasons). I've ran about 100 rounds through it and it seems pretty solid, but as you noted, doing full reviews is for those of us that aren't "the poors."
3. I've destroyed 3 BCGs. They are wear parts just at higher round counts than most people can go without wanting to buy a new rifle.
You guys need to make this a series called 'Brokeback Rifles'.
Brockback mountain
@@BrassFacts You two whispering sweet nothings.....with bullet points.
I still think you guys might enjoy the .308 bullpups more than the 5.56 ones simply because the easy comparison to the ar15 isn't there
Brock already has an MDRX, as I understand it is easy to caliber convert it to .308
@@Meyer-gp7nq I feel like the .308 bullpups battlerifle just makes more sense you have more barrel and rail space and .308 battle rifles are already a system of compromises anyway might as well go bullpup and see how it works
Enjoying the content, pace has been sweet recently. Cheers
Maybe we are just wasting our money and should forget AR10s exist and just use AR15s with 77 gr
maybe
Amen
Love the collaboration videos!!
You should do a surplus max kit video assembling the best possible kit from surplus gear. Sponsored by Venture Surplus. It think that’s called vertical integration or something.
took my DD5V3 to the range today for the first time. did great out to 500.
The problem with the 716 being proprietary isnt that it's a bad rifle today, it's that it'll be a bad rifle tomorrow with no way forward other than buying a whole new rifle. Sig is in the business of robbing an 80 year old rifle design of the only advantage it has in competing (favorably even) with other modern rifles. Without being "open source", as it were, the AR15 platform would not have gotten to where it is today and be able to go head to head with modern rifle designs. It is the one thing that allows it to carry forwards 80 years of development where new rifle designs have to make do with however long they were given for their respective projects. Sig fails to understand this and I'd recommend buying literally any other brand of AR platform rifle.
The same goes for the much cooler looking SCAR. Despite its piston system it's still an AR-15, you can tell by the lower receiver, but even more proprietary than the sig. Dead end design and overpriced. Especially because reliability comes from the very cheap and easy solution of just making the BCG heavy and overgas the bitch, which is why it eats optics for lunch and needs a muzzle brake to shoot acceptably. But still very cool.
My case in favor of battle rifles in general though, is simple. I'm not a gunfighter. I'll never be a gunfighter. Most people won't be. I don't have gunfighter friends either. The only advantage we can get is range and gadgets. Gadgets means you're slow, but we already ruled out high speed low drag tacticool operations, so this is somewhat acceptable. Range and precision, and the element of surprise are the only ways left to win a gunfight. Win it before the enemy knows they're in a gunfight. Range buys you time and reduces chance of detection.
This doesn't mean .308 specifically is the answer. Minmaxing the rifle probably ends up pushing you towards 6-6.5mm calibers, probably the creedmemes or similar .308 derivatives. Though 77gr .223 probably isn't the worst possible answer either.
I somewhat agree, but you can buy an entire 716i for the same price as a replacement barrel for the SCAR. I’d just buy a spare bolt, a couple of extractors, a couple cam pins, some gas rings and a firing pin. Then you’d be set for the life of the barrel (10,000+ rounds). At that point you’ve spent $7500 or more on ammo and have gotten your $1500 worth out of the rifle.
This is some of the same things I’ve been saying with semi auto 308s on the civilian market, because for some reason they can’t seem to make a good rifle that isn’t stupid expensive and/or proprietary. You go to AR10s and you have to go very expensive to have them run well, but then you’re stuck with those company’s parts. You go outside of that to the scar and you get both problems on top of being a money pit. The M14s end up being money pits as well as not lending well to being modernized. The FAL forget it on the civilian market, they’re just not good, and expensive. Which leaves the G3 type rifles and those are ok, but the parts can be expensive and the cheap stuff is only cheap due to surplus which is drying up
Shame DSA's QC is a bit hit or miss. A well built FAL gives SCARs a run for their money. I found they headspace the FAL long, and put way too heavy springs in the trigger for no real good reason. Re-headspace the rifle, and swap out the trigger springs, and they run real nice, and are easily sub 2MOA, around 1.5.
@@catherined.398 Yeah that’s the problem I’ve found not just with DSA but many semi auto 308 manufacturers is that the rifles just aren’t durable. And the ones that are they often take proprietary parts and/or just hard to source parts and mags. AR10s are getting better, but there’s still no standard as most view semi auto 308s as DMRs only in the US
@@ThrashTillDeth85 DSA's issues tend to be more in the over tensioned trigger group springs, and often their headspace is way off. Otherwise, they are okay.
Oh, and their magazines for a while were completely unusable.
My 18” runs like a dream. Only 500 or so rounds thru it but so far so good. Real good infact. Wish it had better after market support tho. Finding am mlock handguard was like finding a turbo for a Tesla
The SR25 is THE cream of the crop in the 308 battle rifle platform. A close second is the LMT. Third would be the Larue Tactical large frame setups. Interestingly, all 3 of these can swap uppers or lowers with no problem.
i love the sr25, but imo it's more so designed to be a far better CSASS.
There are other POUs for the Semi-Auto .308 rifle. I think Chuck Pressburg put the nail in the coffin talking about showing up at some FOB in afghanistan and finding crates and crates of LR118 all stuffed into mags, sitting in a back room. "Yea, we ran battle rifles for about 2 weeks". I've always made the point that "out west, this is rifle country" because more often than not, you can see a target at much greater ranges that you could ever hope to engage it, even with seriously over-bore cartridges (.338, 408, 50BMG etc). The .30 cal SASS starts to make sense, however, at the same time the distances become so large, you now have to carry the extra weight of the ammunition.
My LGS guy suckered me into getting an Aero M5 lower a few months ago, it is now complete, and excellent to shoot at 800 yards. I'm going to run it for the next 1000yd match. I do need it for load dev and testing periodically, but that's about it.
I love the commentary between you two 😂
Lmao, caught me with the 'stop skipping forward'
I own a POF Revolution, absolutely love it. If you have any questions about it please ask
This couldn’t have been a cheap video to make for you guys! Thanks for making this awesome video guys!!
I lost track. 70cpr minimum adds up really quick
especially since half these guns needed like 50-100 rounds of ammo to trouble shoot
This is why I won't give up my SIG 716 piston gun despite being stuck with the super short quad-rail or overpriced carbon fiber rail as options for it. The gun just works and AR-10 pattern guns are fickle to put it mildly.
I ponied up for the 716 gen 2 DMR. I cannot imagine the customisation everyone has to go through to get their ar10 to work.
DSArms SA58. It’s an FAL from old Israeli parts kits. They stamped new receivers and made new hammer forged chrome lined barrels. Doubt they’re FN good but it Runs like a dream. Kicks like a mule tho lol. Same beef tho. Hardly find a mlock rail for it
Awesome video! listening while I finish my first BR build!
Hell yeah!! Can't wait to see it
Hey Brass, hey Hop;
First time caller, long time listener lmao.
So the POF Revolution solved the issues for me. I went through a few different small frame 308s before I hit the Revolution and I’ve had no issues. Roughly 2500 rounds and only time I’ve had an issue was due to not cleaning it. With the 9 position gas regulator, I have run a r9, griffin Optimus, Rex mg7 and ab a10 which caused no issues. Also accepts standard ar15 buffer weight, trigger, safety etc. IMO it’s worth a peep if you want to try and not be frustrated with something that does stuff well, but nothing good like the aero and Anderson.
I may try one if the BR bug bites me again
I've got the Di version and it has been back to the factory twice to get fixed so its also not all sunshine and rainbows
Been waiting for a battle rifle vid! Nice
Thank you for the video man, we appreciate the work that you and hop put into these.
I’ll keep to my g3 clone it’s got fair recoil and yes she’s a bit heavy but I love running it it shoots like a dream and it’s my favorite rifle to shoot. I also got it for less than $1300 so there’s that as well
The PTR is the best option, cheap parts and mags and it shoots really well. I got mine for $800 several years ago, but I wouldn’t be mad at paying $1300
Happy to see someone else giving the 716i some love. Had one for a few years, fun hog gun
I'm glad you tested the anderson, I've been eyeing both it and the PSA PA10 as something I can tinker with. I'm almost swayed to the pa10 just because of the ambi controls, adjustable gas block and neato accesories. The anderson is half the price but I know I'll end up spending what I did on the psa just to make it as good.
I got the new sig tread snakebite se in 308 and it’s sweet for 1400 bucks a sig ar 10.downfall is you have to get sig parts.
‘PSA’ hands-down..
LOVE MY PA10 gen 3
Fired up for the non price gouging grid fleece, good stuff thx Venture
An Anderson rifle having weird malfunctions? I'm stunned, I tell you. Stunned.
I swapped the brake out for a surefire warcomp, it still shoots well and even better with a pmm jet and RC2. It’s a cash sink though
I have a few LR-308's and I find that an A5 or rifle length buffer system with an A5H2, A5H3, or rifle buffer and an aero or sup arms adjustable gas block, along with a JP rifle length spring gives you a lot larger window of operation. I still have to tune a few clicks up or down for different ammo sometimes if I want the softest shooting gun with perfect ejection, but you could get by with having it open a little more and working with all of it in my experience. I like the JP 308 extractor's as well. My favorite is either a 16 in Aero m5 with a direct thread YHM res k or a 2a Xanthos lite with an 18 inch rifle gas barrel, both Faxon big gunner profiles. M118 Pmags have been my fav so far as well.
“If all you want is a reliable hard use rifle out of the box then it’s the scar”-end of review
Heard yo guys might do Tavor 7, will be cool to hear your experience with it. Hopefully it will be good.
I've been fortunate to not have many issues with my SFAR. Aside from some rounds in the first 200-300 it's been 100% haven't done accuracy testing with fancy ammo or suppression work yet though
Hey @Brass Facts! My name is Adam Harfst and I am a 16 year old from a small town outside of Saint Louis, Missouri, and I share the same firearms autism as you and Hop. I completely agree with your channel statement, "Random dude, making gun videos in his free time.
Haven't been there done that, though I do train with those that do.
I think it's a social responsibility to be proficient with firearms, for safety, preparedness, and to keep one of the most important lifestyles/traditions alive in the general population."(Brass Facts). I noticed how both you and Hop grew your channels extremely quickly initially, as well as when you guys banded together as the "Nova Group". Both of your channels skyrocketed in popularity extremely quickly, seemingly overnight(relative to other youtubers).
I am going to start my own RUclips channel, heavily inspired by the two of you but with a competition shooting/minors perspective spin on the thesis of your channel as previously stated. Based on what I've seen with the channel growth of you and Hop recently(since the Nova Group got popular), adding myself as another member is valuable to both of us.
I am going to write a full essay, citing all the reasons my channel will be a valuable to your conglomerate, only I ask that I can email it to you privately. This is simply to keep my ideas my own, no plagiarism. I am not going to be suggesting I be allowed in cold turkey, simply that I be given a chance to produce a video as a sort of audition.
Yours and hops channels have been instrumental in improving my life, helping me to realize my place in this world. I look forward to conversing more, and I hope that you'll take me seriously.
Got to experiencemy first NV (Wwhite NV((the most powerful of NVs)) tonight at my first Night Match! We ALL watch and love your content! We shared complaints of how we had to stop EVERYTHING to watch your videos! Much love from central Alabama!
I can't complain at all with my PWS MK216. Long stroke, soft shooting either suppressed or unsuppressed, adjustable gas with not 1 but 2 suppressed settings (one for higher back pressure cans and one for low back pressure cans), and eats everything I've fed it. Absolutely no gas to the face with a Huxworx Ventum 762 attached. With a GLX 2.5-10 and fully loaded she's a thicc girl but probably the most reliable rifle I own.
I think the SFAR could be a maine squeeze rifle
bum dum tis
The Robinson Arms XCR-M in 6.5 creedmoor, 7mm-08, or .308 would be a very interesting review to watch.
Something i've noticed about the scar is that its recoil seems to pull you forward with it when it returns to battery. The brake does help, but after switching to a surefire 3 prong ive hardly noticed a difference. Swapping out the buffer for a lingle industries for a negligible price is a good way to counteract not having the brake.
I have the 20" SFAR. All i did was H2 buffer, radian charging handle, and a mpvo scope. Perfect gun
i was so freakin' psyched when Ruger announced the SFAR. like i was definitely gonna buy one and be madly in love with it, and it would be my EVERYTHING rifle. that balloon has been thoroughly deflated.
The problem with Ruger is that everything is for proprietary and if they discontinue the rifle. And you need a replacement part because something broke your f***ed.
Hop your experience with the Sig 716i has been mine with my Diamondback DB10 that I have to add my wife purchased for me for Valentine's Day! I had to put a Griffin armament extra power buffer spring and a heavier short buffer and wow 168Gmm ejects at like 5oclock and hotter hunting loads at 3 it's smooth and easily gets right at1 moa with the 168gmm m80 shoots a like 4in but it's currently my favorite money pit
You forgot the Smith & Wesson M&P .308? For the cost, it's been a pretty good rifle for comparative options. Thank you for sharing this!
I bring it up in my Anderson review.
The big issue seems to be all the budget rifles that are good. Require like 500 dollar of aftermarket support (like the MP 308), or are a coin flip in reliability.
I’ve got two .308 gassers and finally settled their on their configurations this summer.
I’ve got an LMT MWS which has been extremely reliable, only issues I’ve had with it were due to magazines (pmags work great, my cheap aluminum mags did not like longer match ammo but run m80 ball). The MWS barrel change is super cool, I’ve got a 13.5” chrome lined barrel and a 18” stainless barrel. I was able to take the 18” barrel out to 920y on full size silhouettes. The 18” barrel was over gassed though, need to try a BRT gas tube to tame it down a bit. The 13.5” barrel gets me out to 600y pretty nicely and is good for competitions. I had roughly a MIL of zero shift swapping between the two barrels, almost exactly a MIL of both windage and elevation. My big gripes about the LMT; it’s expensive (but worth it) and it’s a chonky beast.
My other gasser is a Galil Ace Gen 2 in .308. I tried to make it a DMR-esque rifle but it was not very good in that role. 1:12 twist rate and it didn’t like the match ammo I tried in it, best grouping I ever got was 1.6”. I took off the scope and bipod and threw on a red dot. Now I just sling the cheapest M80 or .308 rounds I can find. Its comes with a gamer brake as well causing it to shoot softer than my AKMs. It’s also been extremely reliable, I can’t recall any malfunctions. Doesn’t really fill any role except a fun way to blast M80 ball quickly and try to game 2 gun competitions with overly generous rules for heavy division.
I’ll double what you said about the LMT, my 13.5 runs everything and is very accurate but you definitely pay a premium price for it
@@Thb1990 yeah my 13.5 LW chrome lined runs super smooth and shoots most ammo I’ve ran through it pretty accurately. The stainless barrel is marginally more accurate, but it’s also adds about a pound to the rifle making the 13.5 so much more handier. My 13.5 is gassed perfectly imo but my 18” need some adjustment.
Like AK's, FAL's, 91's and all the other cool stuff, the best time to buy a SCAR was yesterday. I picked up my 16S and 17S for $1800 each, and now prices on everything have gone crackhead exorbitant. Same with ammo. You used to be able to pick up quality surplus 1000 round NATO cases for $150 all day long from places like CDNN and such. These days, you're really going to have to pay (a lot) to play.
Surprised the og wasnt mentioned here. The venerable s&w mp10! The volunteer freefloat version is pricey for its age but seems legit
I took advantage of Palmettos Memorial Day deal and ended up building an 18in AR 10 from them for about $900 total. Found another deal on a vortex 5-25x optic at my local outdoor store for $250 and the thing shoots like a dream.
I love my Aero M5. I swapped the Aero barrel for a Faxon Gunner barrel and a BRT gas tube to tone the gas down. I'd love for an SFAR style adjustable gas block, but I don't trust any of the current options.
AR10 is like ordering a burger at Buffalo Wild Wings
Let's hope SIG doesn't discontinue the 716i here Stateside. It's sounds like the only real sub $2K AR-10 that's 100% good to go out of the box.
I built an Aero M5 from scratch with a 16" barrel, with "blemished" recievers. I've had 0 issues or malfunctions, it runs super smooth. I used a BA barrel and get 1-1.5 MOA accuracy out of lower quality ammo. On the other hand, the first "battle rifle" I bought was an Adams Arms AASF-308 "small frame". I had major problems out of it. Its a piston system, not DI. I had to change the spring on the piston to get it to function reliably, and change the spring in the bolt release to get it to lock open on an empty mag. As long as it's super sloppy wet with oil, it runs with no malfunctions now and is very very accurate with the Voodoo barrel....but I'll never fully trust it.
have scar17, have run 4 muzzle devices (stock brake, sig flash hider, sig brake, and FN flash hider). It is softer shooting without brake - due to the giant bcg... it's not just he brake (FWIW I ended up keeping the FN flash hider in the end)... also agree - must have upgrades are MREX MLOK forend and giessele trigger)
Thank you guys for making this video, this is a topic I've thought about forever now.
Midwest industries has an AR10 that they have beautifully tuned. They recommend a sprinco buffer spring change to suppress and they have load recommendations for best results and when I follow their instructions my rifle runs flawlessly. I've taken it through a John Farnam rifle class and through a QSI class in MN. Love that gun. I run a USO TS8X on it, a light and a qd bipod.
Brassfacts Friday 🎉🎉🎉🎉
I have an Aero M5 that I built using mostly Aero/BA components. It has an 18” BA barrel with rifle length gas system and M5 carbine buffer system. It’s under gassed for this setup and took about 150 rounds to break in before it would shoot reliably without a suppressor (with a suppressor it shot fine). Now it’s working consistently but I’m not real confident in it yet. Maybe another 300-500 rounds will help.
Well this is good to see. This is my current set up that I haven't shot yet but I plan on shooting mostly suppressed. I do however have an adjustable gas block in it too
@@MrTjones1987 I also have an adjustable gas block on it. However since it’s under gassed it’s not used at all. To make it work I had to remove an o-ring from the bot ejector. I’m also running the stock M5 carbine spring and buffer. If I use a heavier buffer or spring it won’t cycle, if I use a lighter buffer it won’t go into battery. Like I said it works but is on the edge. Now that I think about it, it could be impacted by the extra cerakote that’s on the gun. I’m finding that some of the tolerances of the Aero monthly kits end up barely in spec (our out of spec) once the cerakote is applied. That can mess with some of the guns functioning.
@@mavrikmavrik3032 I'm running a springco orange and a 3 oz buffer. I'm feeling like i shouldn't have any issues really getting the bolt to cycle right if I turn with the gas block. Just going to keep my fingers crossed for minimal headaches
So weird that aero stuff has a break-in period. My complete aero 5.56 upper took 100 rounds to start cycling at all. I sent it back to aero in the middle of that time period, and they told me it “cycled fine for 10 rounds.” But when I got it back, it wouldn’t cycle at all 🤔
After ~100 rounds, it would start feeding two or three rounds at a time. Now at ~200 rounds, it feeds whole mags just fine
Never had this experience with the BCM or Geissele rifles I have
@@basedWisco715 I've built quite a few rifles with Aero parts. The only times I've had issues is with rifle length gas systems and carbine length buffer systems. The BA barrels are nice (I really like the Hanson ones) but they are lightly gassed so that can cause issues if there is anything amiss with the parts.
Definitely want to hear more about “battle rifles aren’t a thing”. Like, I think I kinda know what you mean but.
Dare I say you’re better off with one of those old antiquated rifles. Surprised HOP didn’t mention the PTR91. I know he has a few videos on it.
Love your videos brass.
We have to co-lab sometime. Must be nice to have all that area to train in lol. Keep it up brother
The sig spear in .308 or .277 fury (if you can get it) would be perfect for this vid. Id love to see it compared to older battle rifles like the ar-10 and scar, or even older guns like the g3 and sa58 fal.
I have been blessed enough by God to own both. I prefer the Scar over the Spear 7.62x51.
Love the pof revolution. I believe it solves everything yall spoke about but yes it is pricey but brother it runs all ammo and imi 7.62 match is a 1inch group all day. Recall is great and rifle is as light as my ars with same barrel length. Great video yall talking always relaxes me and is always informative
I love mine too, accuracy kinda shit and had some QC issues from them but it’s a killer once you get it squared away
Never had an issue good out the box. Try imi 7.62 match I believe 175 grain sierra match king. Using same lower will be ordering 6mm creedmoor. Hoping the accuracy will be even better.
@@davidhoffpauir1963 I’ve tried most ammos under the sun for it and dropped a go/no go gage in the gun turns out the no go the bolt closed on and was rattling around. I got the first barreled replaced by POF because of terrible accuracy and then the second one was out of headspace on a new barrel. Sooo I’m getting it rebarreled by Patriot valley Arms
I also had the carrier gas key come loose 2 times and they replaced the bcg once and then I just fixed it myself the last time.(they aren’t staking the hardware properly)
716i is my jam. If I had to have a 308, that is the rifle I would pick up.
Got a dd5v3, set it up a lot of different ways; by far the most enjoyable is a lantac dragon + geiselle ssa-e so it can shoot fast and controllable not too unlike a 5.56 AR with the volume and concussive blast turned to 11. A UH1, fixed Scalarworks irons (sometimes the folding rear to accommodate a magnifier, and a rein 3.0. VFG and just treat it like the carbine weight all natural fighter he is… who just happens to hide anytime USADA comes around. The thing is truly 1MOA with decent ammo and glass/magnification, and you’d be genuinely impressed with just how tight it shoots w that unmagnified 1 MOA dot. Makes me want the EXPS3-1. Also, I got the dd5v3 at a big discount, and will eventually make an honest DMR/ Marksman rifle out of it. But for now? God damn it’s fun treating it like a basic AR on testosterone, EPO and steroids ok?
Thanks for the waffleslut top Brassnuts I've been looking those for a while.
What is it with 308 ammo just being inconsistent? Ive had some match stuff being 6moa wile surplus is 1-1.5 in the same gun
I'm just going to be honest. I seriously can't think of any videos where a AR10\308 variant rifle was shot at the abuse TREX did on the Aero M5. If he just stopped to piss on the bolt every 1000 rounds maybe it would have finished to the end lol. Looks Solid to me. I don't think the SCAR \ S25 \ Sig etc would go very many rounds farther with zero lube only what someone at the factory assembled the rifle with like in that video.
Good vid fellas!
I went down this road and bought a S&W M&P10 but had a horrible time trying to suppress it, tried like hell to get my hands on a LMT MWS but they were moving and ended up with a ADM UIC10A, that thing is amazing, but I did pay $2650 for it. I saw the SIG for $1450 at a LGS but am upgrading all my night vision and just didn't think it was as necessary as a better laser
I really want to do a 308 build, but between you and Hop, I've come to realize that I need to be prepared for disappointment, haha.
Only problem with my 20" sfar is really fast burning powder reloads. Otherwise it works like a charm on setting two here. Now I run a flowthrough and it is amazing. Maybe because mine is 4 months old and has the newer gas regulator?
I have preached situational awareness to my wife and family for years now. Last year around Christmas, my wife was in a store with our adult daughters and grand daughter. A guy started following her around the store taking oics of our grand daughter. My wife realized she had left her 38 in her vehicle. She said it was the most uneasy feeling she has ever felt. She takes it everywhere unless I am with her now
Good video and lots to think on. Plus NOVA!!!!!!
Fricken love the SFAR
I run reman through my PSA. It’s MOA, and it’s never failed.When I run Norma through it, it’s sub MOA. I got it for around 900 with a geissele two stage trigger and a stainless barrel.
Sitting here in Canada where an importer just brought in a bunch of SG 542’s and wondering if I should grab one since AR-10’s, M14/M305’s, FAL’s and G3’s are all banned. It’s either SG 542 or Tavor 7. But .308 is so expensive.
The Scar is a money pit for sure, but it makes me smile. If you are willing to put the time and money into it, I think it can be best in class for battle rifles (and maybe only in class, going back to the "are battle rifles a thing" discussion).
I want one. And perhaps I shall get one if i get a smoking deal on one, and I still want to tolerate buying 308.
Once you swap out the "lower" that's not really a lower with the Lingle industries, or if you can blow a unicorn to get a Stryker, then it's the perfect rifle.
@@BrassFactsbro you said i was crazy for wanting a review on a almost 3k lpvo and now your thinking of buying a scar WTF 🤨🧐. Im Just joking bro 🤣✌️
@assclapper2231 yeah, that and everything else
@@assclapper2231 you or me?
The Galil ace gen 2 would have solved pretty much all of your complaints. 2k but don’t really need to modify it to do everything you talked about. Good rail real estate, extremely reliable, 1-2moa accuracy, etc.
I have a 20 inch sfar and it’s amazing have shot over 2,000 rds through it and works great
DSA 18" Para FAL (scored from Utahgunexchange during the pandemic for $1300 and 12 mags ) with all the cool modern upgrades from DSA and a Trijicon 1-8x has entered the Chat....... 600-800 yards all day in the same Utah Desert you guys also love to play in. Enjoyed the content gang.
Why does my psa10 that i put an fn barrel in and changed out the bcg and put an adjustable gas block run like a champ.on everything and puts 1" groups down with pretty cheap ammo? Its an 18 inch barrel
I have a POF Rogue and I love mine. Never suppressed it 😅 but mine works great it was a price tag for sure. Buy once cry once I guess. Anyways mine works great and I love it, I bet my life on that rifle to defend my property and my family.
SFAR isn't based on the DPMS GII, it's a knock off from the POF Revolution DI, both of which are AR-15s with AR-10 mag wells.
GII is midway between a large frame and small frame.
The problem getting a lightweight .308 to work is fundamentally tied to the .308's challenges, namely projectile mass, recoil, bore volume, gassing, reciprocating mass, and springing.
The issue with the SFAR is the gas system. I junked thier regulator for a normal AGB, AR-15 gas tube, and drilled the gas port slightly bigger. Mine has run like a top since.
I’ll be curious to see what Sons of Liberty comes out with b/c their AR10 is “coming soon” on their website!
The Tavor 7 is great!