I find it curious that Dr Atilla is so dismissive of the carnivore diet, and unwilling to even take a fair look at it. I've been on what you might call a keto-vore diet now for about 3 years. I eat fewer than 20g of carbs per day, and I use plant based items like garlic as more of a supplement than a side dish. The benefits I have seen would take way more time to explain than I want to spend here. Yes , my LDL is 211, and there is no way that I'm going to trade that unproven risk for the very proven risk of pharmaceutical drugs. This diet has drastically improved my life, and honestly, even if it shorten my life by a few years, which there is zero evidence that it will, I would still do it! Everybody has to believe something, because nobody can be trusted to speak truthfully about anything diet related. I've experimented on my own body for almost 50 years now, and most of the "information" prior to carnivore has resulted in utterly disastrous results for me.
Despite what people may say, LDL is not the enemy. When on the keto-carnivore diet, yes our cholesterol is higher than average, but we NEED cholesterol to function properly. Our LDL is also in a non destructive form as carbs are kept to a minimum. Carbs oxidize LDL into smaller particles which IS bad for us. Dr. Paul Mason explains this in some of his You tube videos. I'm eating the same way as you, I feel great and don't get bored of eating. And I'm no longer a slave to food.
It's not carnivore diet is putting their autoimmune diseases into remission, it is eliminating all junk food, wheat gluten and overeating. Walsh protocol has plenty of vegetables, but it also puts autoimmune diseases into remission.
If high LDL is so bad and we have statins to correct it, how come the heart attack is still number one killer. I reduced my added sugar intake, and my LDL went up by 30%. I’m not carnivore, but I’m not afraid to eat healthy fats. I listened to enough experts to make conclusion that high LDL if you do not have diabetes is not a big predictor of a heart attack. Actually, correcting the LDL level with statin would decrease my level of cardiac event in the next five years from 8.5% to 7.8% (according to my doctor’s, cardiac calculator). This by itself is not beneficial for me to take a drug that may cause side effects.
It doesn’t matter how many experts you have listened to because first, you may be biased in your expert selection, and second many of them contradict each other on these topics anyway. What matters is what we see in the actual studies. Also, its well known that cardiovascular mortality is not impacted much over a short period of time, and 5 years is. ASCVD risk depends on your lifetime exposure to LDL / apob. So the differences in longevity will be huge, not on 5 but on 15, 20, 30 years.
Cardiovascular mortality is impacted over a long period of time due to the high consumption of poor quality sugars and carbohydrates. We know this because we have now been eating these junk food for a long period of time. What we do not have or what we have forgotten is the impact of a proper human diet mainly consisting of quality meat over a long period of time. It is only recently that the carnivore diet has come back into light, and there has not been enough time to scientifically judge its outcome on the lipid model. One thing we do know, is that our ancestors did not suffer from most of the modern metabolic and autoimmune diseases that we have today.
I've been on keto/carnivore for 5 years now. I've lost over 150 pounds and maintained my weight with this meal plan. I feel better than I have in decades. My blood work is excellent. Protein and fat are very satiating so you don't eat as much. That's a good thing for a person like me with disordered eating. My energy level and mood are consistent. This has worked for me. Do what works for you.
Dave Feldman isn't curious about his high LDL? You're not curious why high LDL doesn't increase plaque on coronary CTA in people. Lipid hypothesis is flawed but you can't get past your bias
@@bigmike0000000Feldman is constantly saying he doesn't know the answer, he just thinks we need to investigate why the lean mass hyper-responders seem to be healthy.
I'd like to believe these guys, but I've been on this diet for 2 years, and my tumour has stopped growing. The brain surgeon who monitors me every year has said, "Whatever you're doing, keep doing it!" My muscles have grown, and I have more hair. In fact, my hair has become very thick.
@@ph0605 and apparently your high ldl is an issue. Keep up the great work. Apparently my reversing my heart disease isn't possible as medical science says so. But here we are changing paradigms
@@TimTietjenand yet my apob is at the low end of normal. Sub fraction test confirms pattern a ldl. So there's that. And may cac has regressed by 20% in 12months while on carnivore ?
Carnivore diet is not anti inflammatory, meat doesn't have antioxidant properties. it is eliminating all junk food, wheat gluten and stopping overeating helped you to reduce inflammation, you simply eliminated inflammatory foods.
@BenjaminKuruga Not exactly, carnivore cured his health problems but after 1.5 years he developed electrolyte issues that only carbs could alleviate. YMMV. Seems like he still avoids grains.
Plants have toxins. That's how they protect themselves. If you're going to do a podcast on something, do some research 1st. Meat, especially beef, is highly digestible and is the least inflammatory food you can consume. There are many studies on ketosis and it's healing benefits out there.
@@4DTravelr add salt and potassium to your steak, take a magnesium bath. 360 to 212 on carnivore and off most meds 56 6ft 2in old busted up drywall finisher, walking atleast 5 miles a day and lifting even with f ed up shoulders knees and back. Life's about choices.
Dr Shawn Baker has said many times, that if you can tolerate plants then include them. Clearly some people cant, such as Mikaela Peterson. I also think its clear that some people can thrive after several years of eating only meat.
It's interesting the focus on LDL. On keto or carnivore, insulin sensitivity is improved. What role does insulin resistance play in cardiovascular disease? If LDL was the only culprit, then what of all the people who have heart attacks, etc who have very low levels of LDL. Metabolic disease has so many know issues that can lead to diabetes, stroke, heart issues.
@@nicacrush We keep being told that but 50% of heart attack victims have low cholesterol, and in a massive study of 10 million people over 12 years in South Korea, those with High cholesterol on average outlived those with low cholesterol. As one scientist from Johns Hopkins said, if you think LDL causes heart disease, then you think ambulances cause accidents. In other words, it's correlative, not causative.
I Have been carnivore for several years. I am 71 now. My ldl is 130ish. The dr want me on a statin. I did the risk analysis and decided not to take it. The benefit from the statin was small when compared to the risk. Every one should do their own analysis.
I'd suggest forget LDL-C. Finally, the medical people are beginning to recognize ApoB, ApoA1, and the ratio as having a much closer association with CVD (and no "U" shape like LDL). Get these tests and see where these three biomarkers are. On Keto, my LDL stayed about where it had been for years, 115-135, but my ApoB/ApoA1 ratio went rock bottom healthiest.
@@rickguymon7702 in the teens, that’s good. My heart doctor told me that just because you have calcium doesn’t mean it’s in the artery. It could be on the outside of the artery, which is not a problem. Only way to know is to have a nuclear stress test.
Appreciate Dr Attia beginning to explore the carnivore diet and not throw it out universally. His logic about treating large elevations in LDL when they occur with individuals on the diet makes sense. At the same time the jury is still out on this in my opinion. Seems pretty clear that there are lean mass hyperesponders who experience an huge elevation in LDL along with a significant drop in triglycerides. Although just one study looked at this and followed the actual progression of coronary plaque in a group of lean mass hypersponders compared to controls in the Miheart Study - the results are noteworthy and need to be repeated at a larger scale. I also believe that is it equally clear you need to measure your levels or you do not KNOW how you are responding. For many there is no big increase or any increase in LDL and in fact there can be significant improvements in overall bllodwork related to cardiovascular risk. So making the assumption that LDL cholesterol levels are an accurate reflection of plaque deposition is not good science - is it? This is far from settled, but whenever I hear anyone - including Dr. Attia - make blanket statements about something like the carnivore diet I lose respect - it is beneath him to do so. In addition, what Paul Salidino does that is called a "carnivore" diet includes copious amounts of fruit and non-fiber carbohydrate. That is a whole different kettle of fish than a true 100% meat, fish, chicken, and egg diet! The scientists that did the work to do the study I referenced above are not charlatans - nor are they suggesting that everyone or anyone should eat a carnivore/ketogenic diet. Dr Attia should recognize this and be willing to admit they "may" be on to something. Neither Nick Norwitz, Dave Feldman or Dominic D'Agostino are fringe whackos making unsubstantiated claims. Dr Attia should have an open discussion with this group as should Layne Norton - who is another person I have tremendous respect for. Walk your talk gentleman and be willing to have an open discussion!
Attia's line of thinking is LDL is bad and needs to be lowered as much as possible. He's in a way self contradictory. In his book Outlive, he describes that certain genetic expressions like the APOE variant play a huge factor why certain people become centenarians despite suboptimal lifestyle choices (like high meat & saturated fat intake, drinking and smoking) and others die early. Yet, here he makes the blanket statement that high LDL is bad and he uses statins liberally to minimise that risks because randomised control studies focussing on this variable have shown a causal effect. Some scientists argue cholesterol in itself is not the problem. If it ends up in your arteries it is a symptom of cardiovascular inflammation your body is repairing. There's also plenty of evidence for excess blood sugar causing inflammation, which may explain why Type 2 diabetes is a huge risk factor in developing cardiovascular disease. IMO it's foolish to single out a single variable in such a complex system. I would get a calcium score to actually verify how much plaque has built up before lowering LDL aggressively, especially if your HDL is high and your triglycerides low.
@@opusdei51my husband and I had the same LDL at one point:101. I had a coronary artery scan at 53. Zero plaque on n my coronary arteries. I had a carotid ultrasound at 58. Zero plaque. My husband had a coronary artery scan at 60- 135 with plaque in every artery including the widow maker.
In this video I felt I was listening to two 1980s individuals who still believe that high LDL causes cardiovascular disease. If a person's LDL rises after going low carb/keto/carnivore and all their metabolic numbers are improving, and their LDL goes up, you don't go and tell them to medicate that LDL downwards. The body is a lot more intelligent than the two gentlemen in this video. The LDL is going up for a reason. That doesn't mean something bad is happening. And why are they calling this dyslipidemia?
This meta-analysis is from 2018. It appears that lowering LDL for people over 100mg/dl remains effective in preventing cardiovascular mortality. pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5933331/
The carnivore diet is our optimal diet. Its our species specific species appropriate diet. Has been for over 4 mill years as pre humans and humans beings. We have only eaten grains for around 12000 years. Its a drop in the ocean and in no way have we adapted at all to eating any form of carbohydrate. In fact all carbs are non essential. All plant food is non essential. BTW the way calories cannot be consumed, cannot be brought to rest and are mass less. I thought an MD would know this. You cannot eat heat energy. Its physically impossible. Humans only eat Mass, and nothing else. We use chemical energy not heat energy. We are open systems not closed.
Funny thing. Before I started carnivore, I was extremely nutrient deficient for decades and nobody said anything. Now I’m getting more bioavailable vitamins and minerals than ever before, my mental and physical ailments are gone… and now suddenly everyone thinks I’m nutrient deficient and says I need supplements?
Haha same. It's hilarious. Why the hell am I not dying from scurvy? Funny thing is, my dentist said my gums have stopped bleeding and are the best they've ever been lol.
Same here and my 20-30 family and friends that are getting a 2nd life on carnivore and telling all The stupid doctors- fuck you and your ignorant stupid soma -
No more stupid meds and a bunch of ignorant doctors telling us: “oh, I don’t know why you feel like shit or have pain? You just old. Here’s a bunch of meds I need to write you so that pharma can give me more stuff”
Have we ever considered where our starting point should be and how far we have may have potentially moved it? I mean isn't it interesting that no other animals are having to sit around and discuss what their optimal diet is? The only animals that get sick are domesticated ones eating our unnatural food or food that isn't evolutionarily appropriate to them. Why is the rest of the animal kingdom getting by with optimal or near optimal health? Perhaps we are still making it too complicated. Somehow, we've convinced ourselves that these truths of nature don't apply to us. Humans are omnivores, yes. They have the capacity to eat plants and even more so since we cook. However, this doesn't mean that we aren't primarily carnivorous. The ppl in the carnivore community explain a lot of this brilliantly. The proof is in the pudding. If everything humans require can be found in animals but not so in plants then......and then? The truths go on and on like this. Plus you guys really discount all those conflicting studies on LDL. Including at least one or two that had to be dug out of someone's basement because they were "disappointed by the conclusion."
There is also a metabolic shift in fat cells where they utilize more nutrient energy than needed to make the ATP required for the cells to do their work. In a sense, they waste nutrient energy (fat). And because it is a natural process, the body doesn't defend the fat loss like it does when you cut calories. You might end up eating less, but that's because your body is getting extra calories from stored body fat. How do you not know this?
I found it more sustainable if I add salsas, condiments, carrots to a roast, the occasional citrus or berries. And as a woman, I need chocolate once in a while 😂 so I drink the chocolate collagen as hot cocoa. It’s better than I was before! I can sustain this and I’ve gotten rid of my diabetes.
Peter, by far the best person to talk to about the carnivore diet is Dr Paul Mason - he is the most calm, most well-read, most brilliant person to talk to - please organise to put all you questions to him in an interview.
I have an entire family with diabetes, arthritis, autoimmune, ibs, obesity, chronic fatigue, high blood pressure, high triglycerides, slow wound healing that all reversed and all Of us - 40-80years old - 5 -10 Months later are all now thriving Lost over 20 lbs of visceral fat, and gaining more than 5-10% muscle Wounds heal in 2-3 days, not 2-3 months No more allergies or dependence on antihistamines No more diabetes or reliance on insulin No more high blood pressure and dependence on any meds No more muscle pain , arthritis, or inflammation- no more reliance on my more steroids! Insane clarity - mentally Insane energy- no more chronic fatigue. Arm and hand strength all back Even black hair is growing back! No more IBS, bloating, gas or any heart burn
I really wanna know what people actually ate before going carnivore. There’s many wrong ways to eat on an omnivore diet, hence they see improvement when they’re told to follow something very restrictive such as carnivore.
@@Cradleland7425 they ate ultra-processed foods*. Stop the bullshit. I eat 600 grams of carbohydrates, 150 grams of protein, 120 grams of fiber and only 30 grams of fat per day. My BMI is 22, BP is 100/60, triglycerides are 41 mg/dL, blood glucose is 89 mg/dL, fasting insulin is 4.7, HbA1c is 5.1%. Carbohydrates are not the problem. Eating unhealthy, man-made food is. My entire extended family has always eaten like this. We never had obesity in our family. People stopped eating our traditional diet (which is heavy in carbs) and started eating a bunch of UPFs, and now there are ~10 obese individuals in the family, all with a lot of autoimmune diseases and even diabetes. I do not doubt that doing the carnivore diet would help lose weight and improve their health, but so would returning to our high-carb traditional diet.
I bet you could all have seen the vast majority of those benefits by cutting out most empty carbs, cutting out sugar and UPF, being in a calorie deficit in order to lose weight and doing some exercise. Plus also cutting out some likely intolerances like gluten. If the only way to achieve this in terms of willpower and sticking to a regimen was to go carnivore then I've nothing against that. But now you should add good stuff back in systematically. Unless you add something back in that you're intolerant to (which is why you do it systematically over time) then I guarantee you'll feel even better.
@PATrainwreck ah, so you are an expert in the field. Brilliant. Please rebut the arguments presented, ideally backed up by pubmed id's of the studies supporting your position. Thank you.
@CvoreAthlete Good to know. Luckily, we have you to set them straight, right? So what specific outcome data from which studies convinced you they are clueless?
Considering there are no placebo controlled, double blind clinical studies on the health effects of the carnivore diet i'd say whatever 'research' you looked at is low quality aswell .....
Remove ultra processed foods and eat in a balanced way and that will be great for 99% of people. It seems that those gushing about their restrictive diets would have gotten similar results on any protocol that removes UP foods.
yes, but the reality is that a high protein / high fat diet HELPS facilitate getting away from the ultra processed, ultra calorie dense foods. If it were an easy thing to do physiologically everyone would just quit and these foods wouldn't exist, but it's not easy and those foods are both enticing and super easy to get.
I just couldn't eat enough. Im 70 kg was eating 2 meals of 500gms each. But I just couldn't get down anymore. On the other hand I had the best stool ive ever had in my life.
When my apoB went sky high on low carb , I adjusted up my resistant carb intake until my apoB went back to my baseline. I found that eating 100 grams of carbs per day was enough to return my apoB to my baseline. Did this 4 years ago. Over time I have increased my carb intake. What I noticed was a greater carb tolerance. My post prandial Blood Glucose spike after eating 60+ grams of carbs was well below the 140 cut off. My fasting blood glucose also dropped to low 90s from 105. What I stay away from any carb that spikes my glucose above 140 . I do think cooling carbs before eating does convert some of the carbs into a resistant starch. So my choice was neither. Adding a medication / drug fix a reaction without first trying a adjustment to diet is a bad idea. Long term effects of drugs are a huge problem with medical practice. Drugs interfere with the biological software in ways that are not understood much better to adjust diet and let the body use the nutrients as needed.
My understanding is that the biggest risk factor for heart disease is insulin resistance or T2 diabetes, not LDL cholesterol. We base biomarkers of health on blood samples from humans eating modern high carb, plant based diets. The carnivore diet is equivalent to many ancestral diets which were largely or exclusively animal based, i.e. low carb, mostly fatty meat. Back in the 1930s, Dr Weston Price toured the world studying tribal people eating traditional diets. His study populations included Swiss folk in the Alps, Scottish Hebridean islanders, Inuit, North American Indians, Andeans, Pacific islanders, Australian aborigines, Maori and various African tribes. His research came at a unique time when western civilisations was encroaching, and altering the diets of many of these people. In every case, he found that those who still followed their ancestral diet were robustly built, strong, healthy, cheerful, free of tooth decay, and had properly formed dental arches. Those who had adopted Western foods (refined flours, polished rice, sugar, canned foods) had rampant tooth decay (this was the period before flouride toothpaste!), greater susceptibility to TB, malignancies, arthritis and so forth. If the individuals were subjected to a Western diet from birth, they often also had smaller dental arches resulting in crowded, misshapen teeth and breathing problems. This epic work is documented in his book "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration". After humans switched from being hunter gatherers to farmers, a significant proportion of the diet swapped from meat to grains and vegetables. This was accompanied by a drop in stature and brain size. Ancient humans thrived on an animal based diet until virtually yesterday on an evolutionary time scale. It is hubris on the part of scientists and doctors to think that they know better than ancestral humans or indeed mother nature.
@@1misago While the transition to agriculture did bring some challenges, it also enabled significant advancements in human society. Modern science continues to build on this knowledge to improve our understanding of nutrition and health.
@rogercollins239 all literature? Excellent. Bit of a rhetorical question: Can you point me to any CVD event outcome data in the massive amount of literature that supports your statement?
Peter starts out this video with such a negative point of view.. The diet is actually so effective at so many things it is startling.. I have been doing it for a year and losing weight was the least of the amazing benefits of doing the carnivore lifestyle. My calories were typically 70% + fat.. Absolutely the best thing I have ever done in my life.
People rarely mention the benefits for mental health and mood regulation. If you suffer from mental illness this diet can be a game changer, literally. These critics always focus on weight loss, sustainability etc when criticising the diet. I wish there was more balance.
Why do you have to treat elevated Apo B? Genuine question? Do we have any evidence that it does harm? Or are we still reverting to the old " cholesterol bad" mantra?
There is only weak, associative evidence. Any honest scientist knows that nutritional studies cannot determine 100% causality. Peter Attia subscribes to the old Ancel Keys' lipid hypothesis. It is now widely established that elevated cholesterol in metabolically healthy individuals does not cause heart disease. The cholesterol found in blocked arteries is simply trying to heal the arterial lesions. It's an immune/repair response.
@@robertusga But the studies make false claims that apoB is causal. Studies can only show an association. So yes, cholesterol is found in CVD. But what is it doing there? Is it trying to help repair lesions as part of an immune response or is just a nasty molecule (apart from making all hormones, vitamin D, cell membranes, brain and neurological tissue etc).
11:59 it’s funny to hear him say that people are defensive on the things they believe while also dismissing the idea that LDL might not be a bit as bad as it’s made out to be in people with healthy functioning metabolism
@SteakandChains what is funny is that folks like you make it sound as if there is outcome data from long-running studies showing that "metabolically healthy" is protective against long-term high ApoB. Please, humor us and share the pubmed id's of this hard outcome data that nullifies the hundreds of studies over decades, all showing that long-term high ApoB is causal in CVD.
Bingo. Only oxidized LDL is atherogenic, not native. The protective nature of "large and fluffy" LDL, and the problematic nature of small, dense LDL is because the latter is far more susceptible to oxidation. This is also why VLDL is problematic, i.e., it is especially prone to oxidation.
@JasonActualization and oxidation and glycation is due to high blood glucose/hyperinsulinemia which is from red meat eating SAD diet, not a carnivore diet.
Paul Saladino eats carbs. Shawn Baker is basically a carnivore. Makes all the difference. My rule of thumbs, never mix carbs and fat! Have one energy or the other and use them! However, we have the opportunity to eat meat on the daily. High protein is the key!
"one or the other", "never do both carbs and fat". How is this thinking objectively? No, just avoid doing things in excess, try to find the right balance. Anything becomes bad when done in excess...
@@HoobaBros mixing carbs and fat activates the Randle cycle which is harmfull to the mitochondrial mecanism. It' like booze, most can tolerate it but high doses end up wrecking your health, especially with people with already poor metabolism. That's one of the reasons why carnivore is so successful as a cure to metabollic dseases.
High protein is "the key" only if the main goal is to lose weight. Carnivore works really well when it is high in fat (for hormones, anti inflammation, better fuel for the brain, easier bowels....). Most carnivore Drs recommend at least 75% of fat in total calories intake so a carnivore diet is essentially a high fat diet, contrary to the popular beliefs.
These two carry on about high LDL on a carnivore diet and arterial sclerosis - just scan for soft plaque build up over time 🤷♂️ Has that been done and what’s the outcome?
Funny thing you posted that right now. I started eating carnivore since last Wednesday. For the past 5 years I was struggling with chronic inflamation that caused in my case depression and anxiety. It is terrible. Negative and s thoughts more than less, struggling in all kinds of relationships.I've been taking meds, going to therapy. It helped but at the same time caused side effects. I must admit that I'm on and off with treatment and recently it was more off than on due to financial reasons.I heared about carnivore before but recently heared that it is also anti inflammatory. It may seem unbelievable but just after 2 days my thoughts started to went away and day after day it is becoming better. Honestly I haven't felt better in the past 5 years, and I'm just 31. I'm a big fan of you Peter and treat you as an authority. I've never read articles before and you made me become fascinated in sicience. I strongly disagree with people commenting, that you haven't done your research, because I know you base your opinions on studies which there aren't many at the moment of carnivore diet. I see that you are concerned with high levels of LDL, because you probably had many patients that it caused to suffer from heart disease. Also many people doesn't realise this episode aired 2 years ago. Contrary to this there is a study being held right now on effects of (very) hight LDL levels on carnivore dietitians and people with normal levels on their cardiovascular system. The results should be available by mid 2025 so I'll be looking forward to hearing from you when it's going to be out. What bothered me at 11:53 your guest downgraded the benefits of the diet that people doing it are experiencing, because of risk of heart disease, and said it could all be cured with medications. I'm not an advocate of not taking meds, a lot of them had helped me throughout the years. But! If there is a behavioural change that I can make, I don't see a reason to take them. Also many people can't afford often expensive doctors and medications for their diseases. I may be biased because of my miraculous results and I probably shouldn't be so positive but I'm enjoying probably best days of my life at least for now. Looking forward to this LDL reaserch and I hope you'll cover it, even though I know you are not really into diet subject. If they prove it doesn't cause worsening of cardiovascular system, there wouldn't be any major downsides for going carnivore anymore.
First points out that mechanistic approach"lectin bad therefore don't eat these plants" is bad. Then uses same approach "high LDL bad for CVD, so they should treat it" without any evidence of high LDL carnivores getting any more CVD.
PLEASE, please do a full episode on this topic, Dr. Attia! There are so many conflicting opinions on this topic that, for a layman, it becomes impossible to decide and ultimately ends up in one of the two echo chambers at either end of the spectrum.
I give up! Eating carbs makes you sick, eating meat makes you sick, eating dairy makes you sick, eating vegetables makes you sick! What the hell am I supposed to eat!?? I also don’t want to have to have a biology/medical/nutrition degree just to eat a damn meal! Can anyone tell I’m frustrated!?
Eat whole real foods. A big factor in all of this is the chemicals and additives in our foods. Prolonged exposure to additives and chemicals and high amounts of fats and sugars combined (a largely unnatural combination in mother nature) is making us obese and sick when these fake "foods" are not consumed in moderation or eliminated altogether. So eat your veggies, your meat, your dairy that is the least processed as possible if you can tolerate it and you will have won the biggest battle that many of us lose because we think that anything in the grocery store at all is a-okay. Not true. Eat real food. Get rid of made up sh*t. You win.
I haven't watched Peter in a while, but he doesn't seem to have kept up with the science at all. I believe the carnivore diet works because it has all the needed nutrients that run the human body, without all the junk, starches, preservatives, pesticides and insulin spikes. For me, it enabled me to reverse my pre diabetes and figure out all my food sensitives. Now I'm back to omnivore, but with an emphasis on meat and fat, with only organic produce. I'm able to have treats here and there, but being very careful with ingredients.
What 'science' has he not keep up with ? there are no placebo controlled double blind clinical studies on the carnivore diet yet, everything we know about it are just anecdotes/theories and this is his opinion ..... also if carnivore gave you 'all the nutrients you needed' why did you add produce back in ?
@@samaa8225 Go Google "keto stanford study" and "carnivore diet study". I know for a fact that I would be healthiest on an all meat diet, but that's not as tasty or fun. So I compromised, AFTER I used it to cure myself. And my husband does keto weekly with treats on the weekends. We both have great blood work, health, etc. Finding ways to balance quality of life and health for us has been key.
Calories don't matter on the Carnivore lifestyle. I have been on it for 18 months and at 70 I am at my high school weight.. but that is not most important. The most important thing is that it makes you metabolically healthy especially for older people. You guys seem a little ignorant about it so you need to educate yourself more before speaking about it. And saturated fat is the most healthy part of any way of eating.
You would have lost the same amount of weight eating only whole potatoes don’t fool yourself. Elimination of ultra processed foods to any Whole Foods will work.
Still talking about calories? You've missed the point. Listen to Jason Fung, Ken Berry, Gary Fettke and Anthony Chaffee to get better informed! Thanks 😊
Calories aren't usually a problem for Carnivore eaters because they're already struggling with getting down all those steaks 3/4 times a day and have basically lost their apetite, imagine eating minced beef and ribeyes for the rest of your life damn ....
One group of people who goes on the carnivore diet have IBS. Chronic diarrhea can lead do a plethora of severe deficiency problems. As a starting point for a elimination diet its really efficient.
My a.m. glucose was running 125 for months while I was low carb on keto. I’ve been mostly carnivore for 2 months and glucose is down to around 110. I an NOT anti-plant but evidently carb intolerant. Maybe at some point I can reintroduce veggies. I’ve been an organic gardener for years and this is a radical change in behavior. Age 82 and I miss my broccoli. ❤
A fasting glucose of 125 is diabetic. If I go to the gym and work out with weights, the elliptical, but finish off with light cardio to burn off any rise in blood sugar from the lifting, my fasting is 80 to 87. With the same low carb food but no exercise, I am 96.
@ I’m aware that I am over the threshold into diabetes territory….and you are not. My point in writing on this forum is it’s a lengthy process to rectify insulin excess at advanced age. If some young person, reads this and avoids the problem, it’s a step in the right direction. My insulin level has NEVER been tested. This is an error in the Medicare system. My doc is unconcerned about the levels saying that diabetes is a slow moving disease. My situation was preventable….Type 2 diabetes is reversible whether my doc knows that or not.
@@deepost2604 I am actually in the diabetic range 200 if I eat certain foods. Both my parents were diabetic and I have the genetics snp for it. I am extremely insulin sensitive. My problem is I don't produce a lot, but not auto immune diabetes, just my genetics. My comment is to encourage exercise, that's all.
@ I clocked 173 minutes yesterday with over 1/2 of it being in the cardio range…plenty exercise. No sugar in this house for 3 years…low glycemic and low carb for years. On berberine and chromium. Frankly doing everything I can to bring glucose down. Thanks for the encouragement. It’s a slog.
@@hillsofwifrom the top of my head: olives, avocados, coconut. Seeds and nuts too if you tolerate them. Macadamias are very high in good fats. I expect the biggest challenge on a vegetarian version would be where to get adequate protein from. Soy maybe 🤔
How is it that so many people who are eating the carnivore way have not just reduced their weight but have over all better health. Please interview the likes of Dr Shawn Baker, Dr Anthony Chaffee, Dr Ken Berry. These people are true carnivores and will provide a balanced opinion.
@@EricBanner571 replace "carnivore" with literally any other diet tribe and you can post the same. Just different gurus, who all have "experts are wrong, buy my stuff instead" in common.
Peter, I appreciate you, I’ve read your longevity book. Appreciate a lot of your content & candor about your personal battles. Just think your way off on nutrition. Why wouldn’t you sit down and have a civilized conversation with Paul Saladino or Mark Sisson? It doesn’t have to be strick carnivore, a lot more about quality & focused on the animal products & the correct plant products.
Maybe because Peter is a scientist who goes by hard outcome data from human studies? Saladino and friends not so much. No need for discussions with folks who are not subject matter experts and only have a "all experts are wrong! Big Pharma is out to get you! Buy my (fill in the blanks) instead!" agenda.
Disagree. I’ve thrived eating both keto and then carnivore. I also think they presented without any apparent extreme bias. Notice how neither one demonizes eating carnivore. I really appreciated this content.
@@Minisquid100 and he both professes and owns it. It’s a huge step forward to say that I am biased bc of xyz and here’s what I think. Everyone has a bias and he owned his.
@@Minisquid100 Having doubts is a sign of a good understanding of science, you probably have a strong positive Bias and that's why you react emotionally to him not being positive about. I thought he was quite neutral on the topic and not more critical towards this compared to other strict elimination diets.
What baffles me in this conversation is what seems obvious. Don't we have imaging techniques that can establish your cardiovascular health? Don't we have other lab tests that can give indicators as to whether the carnivore diet is actually a good long term strategy? Would it not make sense to test this stuff yearly, which presumably insurance would pay for, in order to determine the truth? Otherwise it is just sort of guessing, which is frustrating for everyone.
Dr. Saladino has not been strict carnivore or carnivore in general for a couple of years. In his last blood work review his total cholesterol was 222, LDL 151, HDL 53, Triglycerides 89, and APO B 129. If you going to call out someone, find out if anything has changed.
Over three months into the carnivore diet with daily intermittent fasting, and the results are life-changing! Here are my numbers: * Weight: Down 30 pounds * Blood Pressure: Improved from 139/90 to 123/73 * Glucose Levels: Dropped from 123 mg/dL to 102 mg/dL * Ketones: Now at 3.0 mmol/L * GKI (Glucose Ketone Index): 1.8 This combination has truly transformed my health and my life!
when you watch that video, you are left with the general notion that high LDL is directly and singularly related to CVD, is that true though ? what about the two types of LDL ? what about the level og TG or HDL ? Theres something not very convincing about this video if you also consider the fact that they talk about "treating" high LDL, meaning medication.. hmm
But isn’t it only the small, dense, oxidized LDL (oxLDOL) that is the problem? And don’t carbs increase the likelihood of small, dense LDL, whereas fats increase the likelihood of large, fluffy LDL (noLDL), thereby decreasing risk of heart disease?
What about Dr Chaffee neuro surgeon, Dr Obadia cardiac surgeon , Dr Palmer Psychiatric, Dr Berry MD ? Are they all ideological ? They are all carnivore advocates. The fact that you don’t have studies does not mean it is bad. I wish doctors like you guys were more curious and less biased.
They say there's no studies to refer to😮 just look at the Inuits and some African tribes that just eat meat, fat and blood. Paul salidino has not been carnivore for almost a year, these guys are misinformed
13:03 Exactly that. Someone says they're not eating plants or sugar and people lose it, but someone says they're ELIMINATING meat and people think THAT's healthy?
Are you worried about cardiac events, I believe hypertension and diabetes are greater risk factors and generally improved on carnivore. Honestly, the focus should be on oxidative phosphorylation vs Warburg effect, deuterium depletion is the key, this was totally ignored.
I just did carnivore for 2 months in hopes to help with my chrons/ulcerative colitis. It did help make me more regular but it took a while. The downside is I just had no energy and mentally it was depressing tbh. I started eating carbs again a little over a week ago and I feel like a super human! My training and recovery has dramatically improved. The only other upside to carnivore I can think of is that my physique did aesthetically improve
I was on a pescatarian diet for 6 years and Psoriasis started around both my eyes, looked like a racoon. Switched to carnivore and it went away, alos feel amazing. Now the only time that it comes back is if I cheat and have sugar, ice cream, chocolate, or yogurt thats sweetened. Jordan Peterson, Tammy Peterson & Mikhaila Peterson have all been on this diet for several years and all have had health issues reversed.
@jayblack3404 I was omnivore for 50 years and switched to 100% plant based for 3 years. Psoriasis, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, high A1C all resolved. That doesn't mean every one should be plant based. I am not anymore, I miss filet mignon and cheese too much. Any restrictive diet can improve health, doesn't mean it's "the best". Carnivore diets are typically dropped after a few years, just like other fad diets. All of them have issues.
@samaa8225 even if he is not, doesn't negate the fact that high ApoB needs to be treated to prevent CVD. But somehow, they all disappear in a "Bitcoin, Meat good; every other diet and medicine bad!" bubble. Fascinating.
Peter & I have no idea who the other dude is… this video won’t age well. Why does eating plants make sense when human - the exact species that we are have been in documented existence from fossils have been around for at least 300k years. The same isotope testing that scientifically confirms that T-Rex are carnivore & Brontosaurus are herbivores- confirms that humans - before we discovered or learned how to farm In the last 10,000 years (the last 2%) of our existence - we are carnivores. Evolution is a science and show me any animal that can evolve in less than 10k years to be able to suddenly go from Eating 99% carnivore to 70-90% plant/ herbivores? All plants have cellulose and you need to make the enzyme cellulase to digest anything with cellulose. We - as an entire species- not only have no digestive organ to digest plants , but also no enzymes- cellulase to digest cellulose. Oh - yes, we do have a tiny little “cecum” that’s less than 1cm and a useless appendix. This cannot be used to argue that our bodies can suddenly evolve from eating 99% meat to now 70-90 plants with a 1 cm sized cecum. So listening to the two of you sounds like two flat earthers trying to be “sensitive” towards the crazies that know the earth is round 😅😅
This is where things get tricky. I adopted a carnivore approach as it cured my IBS, and eliminated joint pain. My focus is entirely health, not belonging to a weird vegan like cult. I do have elevated LDL ( although all other markers are good) but how do I lower LDL without jeopardizing all the carnivore benefits??
You didn't address the actual claim that carnivore advocates make, which is that LDL alone doesn't cause heart disease and requires metabolic dysfunction or inflammation to become oxidised LDL.
There are hundreds of podcasts out there taking the deep dive on this subject. When you read the testimonials from everyday people thriving on this WOE, you really question the " experts" assessments. Rockefeller science (medical school) and the truth are light years apart.
Once again Attia waffles on about something he "hasn't really considered". Adds no science or references and makes sweeping statements that are just wrong. He is a charlatan when talking about diets and this one in particular. He hasn't even done a N=1 and tried it himself. He really is a joke at this point.
Nice summary. Missed the opportunity to note that the lean mass hyper responder crowd is addressing the extremely high LDL probable risk. Although only short term data so far, the results are interestingly promising. It is only addressing a very very mall group whom are fit and very lean which would mask or delay the onset of CVS disease. So inherently they will have to wait decades for data to come in that will tell which way this diet tips the balance. But they certainly are not just putting their heads under the sand and hoping for the best.
Peter is so so dimissive. Fascinating that he could so quickly have a biased view. The Carnivore diet makes so much sense from an evolutionary perspective. What a negative conversation.. "Even tap water is seen as negative". OMG. such a poor discussion right out of the gate. Like these two guys are both triggered by something they do not understand..
following an 'evolutionary perspective' in this day and age is nonsense, eating like cave men who ran 10-20 miles a day to catch their dinner while your sat on your coach all day won't yield the same result, they also lived to about 30 years old so we can't really use them as an example of a good diet to follow .....
very low carb for over a year, feel better, more consistant energy, lost 50 pounds. i believe folks try to lump all people into these tests when i think genetics plays a role in what a person will tolerate or thrive on. what works for me might not work for you due to genetics. diets are the broad brush that need to be tailored to the individual. when i did "cheat" my body scolded me the next day. get out in the air and sunshine, do a bit of excersize and connect
People, this is a short clip from a much longer discussion lol. They have the right to comment on it briefly if they want to given their backgrounds as part of a larger conversation, they aren’t claiming to have all the answers, it’s a conversation. This clip is from episode 212 - The Neuroscience of Obesity with Stephan Guyenet, Ph.D. Eat how you want, but our teeth and eyes prove we humans are omnivores. Vegans and Carnivores are both wrong.
We’re all different at different times and in different seasons. It goes on and on. One size doesn’t fit all. Let’s get into the micros. We need to learn to eat healthy for ourselves changing it up or down depending on our needs. Keep learning, experimenting, and finding what works for you
I have been carnivore for a year and a half I graduated top of my class with honors in nineteen ninety eight as a licensed practical nurse. I went through 3 semesters of phone calls and after I got done with pharmacology.This is my own self evaluation I came up with. Never go on any kind medications. You end up on one medication.You will end up on another one to counter act the side effects from that medication. I already wrote something earlier.About a hundred and twenty five pounds are lost and i'm in the best health of my lifetime. I am almost 55 years old and I never take any medications unless it's occasionally a Benadryl to help me to sleep or if I. Might need a Tylenol for something. I guess the answer for most people will always be just take a pill for that.
I thought Peter Attia was pretty smart until seeing this video. I’m a truck driver and I’m more informed than he is on the carnivore diet and the false connection between high LDL and cardiovascular disease
The world needs more of this. Not arguments demonizing, and not arguments idolizing. People look for answers but what they mostly find is propaganda in sheep’s clothing and it’s so incredibly risky and infuriating.
Sorry guys, not your best work, bordering on pathetic tbh. It's almost like you've done no research and never tried it yourself ...... why not get Anthony Chaffee on , he seems to be somewhat of an encyclopedia on the subject. Honestly even I could have provided a more open outlook & better info (yes anecdotal, but that's how all information starts off) And as for "maybe your a little bias" Peter ...... well duh ! Enjoyed the comments though , it seems you followers have it covered better than you do.
I really like that Dr. Attia is skeptical when talking about this or any diet fad. I went on carnivore a few years ago, and I can say that I lost weight and had some other inflammation go away, but I really bought into the Carnivore Code and all the hype. What I have learned from Dr. Attia, is that there is always positive and negatives with most popular diets, and that different diets work or don't work for different people. Carnivore seems to fit me well as long as I don't overdo calories and total fat content, but I agree that some people can be a bit militant about their diets. There is a reason we evolved as omnivores...
Isn't ApoB a surrogate marker? If you are concerned about atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease, why not look for the disease directly? Would you recommend against a carotid intima-media thickness test (CIMT), or a coronary artery calcium (CAC) scan, or a coronary computed tomography angiogram (CCTA)?
The constant barrage of protein gets you jacked AF if you’re lifting weights. I got so strong and so jacked just eating meat. It’s the best shape I was ever in. Since I’ve done a variation of it but nothing worked as well as being 100% into it and just eating meat.
I love the contrast between vegan and carnivore. The biggest difference is carnivore looks healthy and the vegan doesn’t when there is no supplementation . So even if by some slim chance carnivore does harm it doesn’t show. That fact alone should make the detractors curious as to why the appearance of health is so robust.
Since switching to lower carb and slightly more carnivore, my LDL has went up. Triglycerides are low and HDL is high. This has now been almost 3 years and I have never felt better with more energy and less colds and flus, etc.. It’s almost like my immune system has been regenerated. I am a believer that LDL plays a critical role in your immune system And therefore is essential to maintaining a healthy body. Avoid processed foods, and excess carbs and sugars as well as seed oils, and this package is probably the best protection for longevity. Have some berries and the occasional Apple, a small amount of nuts and seeds and some steamed vegetables occasionally.I believe we were made or developed to survive on the protein and quality fats from animals.
Personal experiences people share is they go on it for a while and reintroduce foods with some success with no return of their problem (even some people who have severe depression/ mood disorders). It’s worthy of considering for some folks.
Its particle size, not number and we have been greatly lied to about cholesterol in general. We have the studies, its call the last 20+ years of people eating less meat more sugar, and heart disease has gone up, not down
I started eating carnivore recently and the weight is just falling off. ITS WILD. But i should add, i still eat natural carbs and sugars like oranges and bananas and dates.
You're just eating less calories hence the weight loss, its usually impossible to eat more than 2k calories of meat in a day without getting fed up of it or throwing up so people tend to end up with in big calorie deficits.
In principle Carnivore diet should be easy to be hypercaloric on... Depending on the cut, you could get a lot of fat-content in various cuts of meat (80/20 or 70/30 ground meats, steaks with fat caps and marbling, poultry cuts with skin), and that variation could be easier to live with than sticking exclusively to lean cuts...
@ElijsDima I have no problem eating the equivalent of 2.5lbs ground beef a day. I'm 5'9" male, 160lbs, 54 yrs. 12% body fat. Workout resistance training most days. Been carnivore a year, ketovore previous 2 years
Great but basic point. All diets have pros and cons. If LDL is high, it could be a red flag, maybe scanning for artery blockage could clear out any concern.
Since there is a lot more evidence (due to Dave Feldman's work) on LDL maybe that should be the starting point. When it comes to LDL Peter's work is very myopic. There is plenty of evidence that there is a U-shape curve when it comes to longevity and cholesterol with an optimum range being around 230.
As a carnivore and Lean Mass Hyper Responder the solution to super high LDL, very high HDL and very low triglycerides, the fix: eat some carbs before working out and use avocado oil. Dropped my LDL 150 points and provides more energy for workouts. So mostly carnivore with a tweak and no statins!!! The main down side is some weight gain.
One of the arguments of carnivore diet advocates is that allegedly there is no medical evidence showing high dietary cholesterol intake demonstrates causation to heart disease, only correlation. However, high blood cholesterol does demonstrate a causal relationship to inflammation (eg, free radicals, stress, elevated insulin levels/resistance). Further, high dietary cholesterol does not directly translate to high blood cholesterol unless dietary glucose is heavily restricted. Last, in 2016 JAMA published “Sugar Industry and Coronary Heart Disease Research: A Historical Analysis of Internal Industry Documents” in which the authors examined internal documents from the Sugar Research Foundation (now known as the Sugar Association) and revealed how the sugar industry funded research in the 1960s to shift the blame for heart disease from sugar to cholesterol. This is some context of why carnivores mostly minimize the heart disease argument opposing this way of eating.
@jakegardner8854 dietary cholesterol has little effect on serum cholesterol except for hyperabsorber (there are tests for that). High saturated fat does have a direct effect on raising ApoB in many. Bottom line, get your ApoB tested and treat if high. You can still stay carnivore if desired. Not sure why this is controversial.
@ I’m not carnivore (although I do eat a more keto-style diet). My comment is more to provide context to the topic of discussion on the carnivore diet’s impact (and presumed risk) on heart disease. There seems to be a lot of judgment by some medical professionals grounded in beliefs backed by outdated science.
@jakegardner8854 what "outdated science" are you referring to? What outcome data from which specific pubmed id's do you take issue with, and what outcome data from which pubmed id's have superceded it, disproving said "outdated science"?
I think the carnivore diet is the single best dietary intervention that there is. I also think it’s an intervention and not the best way to achieve optimal health.
I find it curious that Dr Atilla is so dismissive of the carnivore diet, and unwilling to even take a fair look at it. I've been on what you might call a keto-vore diet now for about 3 years. I eat fewer than 20g of carbs per day, and I use plant based items like garlic as more of a supplement than a side dish. The benefits I have seen would take way more time to explain than I want to spend here. Yes , my LDL is 211, and there is no way that I'm going to trade that unproven risk for the very proven risk of pharmaceutical drugs. This diet has drastically improved my life, and honestly, even if it shorten my life by a few years, which there is zero evidence that it will, I would still do it! Everybody has to believe something, because nobody can be trusted to speak truthfully about anything diet related. I've experimented on my own body for almost 50 years now, and most of the "information" prior to carnivore has resulted in utterly disastrous results for me.
Despite what people may say, LDL is not the enemy. When on the keto-carnivore diet, yes our cholesterol is higher than average, but we NEED cholesterol to function properly. Our LDL is also in a non destructive form as carbs are kept to a minimum. Carbs oxidize LDL into smaller particles which IS bad for us. Dr. Paul Mason explains this in some of his You tube videos. I'm eating the same way as you, I feel great and don't get bored of eating. And I'm no longer a slave to food.
It's not just weight loss, a lot of people are going on these diets and putting their autoimmune diseases into remission.
It's not carnivore diet is putting their autoimmune diseases into remission, it is eliminating all junk food, wheat gluten and overeating. Walsh protocol has plenty of vegetables, but it also puts autoimmune diseases into remission.
+1
There´s no logical or scientific reason other that what they left out of their diet.
@juno6 umm...that's kind of the point.
@@SamShank175 well carnivores don't see their "diet" as an elimination diet, they think meat have some magical properties.
Carnivore for 3 years, I'v never been so healthy. Body and mind are at their peak!
If high LDL is so bad and we have statins to correct it, how come the heart attack is still number one killer.
I reduced my added sugar intake, and my LDL went up by 30%. I’m not carnivore, but I’m not afraid to eat healthy fats. I listened to enough experts to make conclusion that high LDL if you do not have diabetes is not a big predictor of a heart attack.
Actually, correcting the LDL level with statin would decrease my level of cardiac event in the next five years from 8.5% to 7.8% (according to my doctor’s, cardiac calculator). This by itself is not beneficial for me to take a drug that may cause side effects.
It doesn’t matter how many experts you have listened to because first, you may be biased in your expert selection, and second many of them contradict each other on these topics anyway. What matters is what we see in the actual studies.
Also, its well known that cardiovascular mortality is not impacted much over a short period of time, and 5 years is. ASCVD risk depends on your lifetime exposure to LDL / apob. So the differences in longevity will be huge, not on 5 but on 15, 20, 30 years.
@@remy8587💯
Cardiovascular mortality is impacted over a long period of time due to the high consumption of poor quality sugars and carbohydrates. We know this because we have now been eating these junk food for a long period of time. What we do not have or what we have forgotten is the impact of a proper human diet mainly consisting of quality meat over a long period of time. It is only recently that the carnivore diet has come back into light, and there has not been enough time to scientifically judge its outcome on the lipid model. One thing we do know, is that our ancestors did not suffer from most of the modern metabolic and autoimmune diseases that we have today.
you've got the wrong doctors bro
Because high cholesterol has no symptoms, so people often don't realise until it's too late...
I've been on keto/carnivore for 5 years now. I've lost over 150 pounds and maintained my weight with this meal plan. I feel better than I have in decades. My blood work is excellent. Protein and fat are very satiating so you don't eat as much. That's a good thing for a person like me with disordered eating. My energy level and mood are consistent. This has worked for me. Do what works for you.
What do you answer to people who say you must have micronutrients deficiencies because you don't get vitamines from fruits for example?
@@sebholdingI do take a good daily multivitamin and other supplements as well. I don't have any vitamin/mineral deficiencies.
@@sebholdingif you eat nose to tail that doesn't happen
@@Therealmathilda I do the same. But then people argue about the fact that such supplements are "natural" or have poor bioavailability
@sebholding I don't care what others say or do regarding my meal plan.
Dave Feldman isn't curious about his high LDL? You're not curious why high LDL doesn't increase plaque on coronary CTA in people. Lipid hypothesis is flawed but you can't get past your bias
so true.
😂
Feldman is the one who is biased; not the guy on the internet who has dubbed himself Carnivore Athlete and built his entire identity around his diet.
@@bigmike0000000No Little Mike. Feldmen has been very open and clear with the LMHR trial.
@@bigmike0000000Feldman is constantly saying he doesn't know the answer, he just thinks we need to investigate why the lean mass hyper-responders seem to be healthy.
I'd like to believe these guys, but I've been on this diet for 2 years, and my tumour has stopped growing. The brain surgeon who monitors me every year has said, "Whatever you're doing, keep doing it!" My muscles have grown, and I have more hair. In fact, my hair has become very thick.
Excellent! Are you also intermittent fasting?
@TruthTellerTH-k3w I eat meat twice a day and try and keep it within a 6 to 8 hour window.
@@ph0605 and apparently your high ldl is an issue. Keep up the great work. Apparently my reversing my heart disease isn't possible as medical science says so. But here we are changing paradigms
The anti inflammatory nature of eating carnivore for me is the driving nature. I feel best when eating this way.
You can't feel high ApoB.
@@TimTietjenand yet my apob is at the low end of normal. Sub fraction test confirms pattern a ldl. So there's that. And may cac has regressed by 20% in 12months while on carnivore ?
Same here. 👍
@@sophtayl Low ApoB numbers on carnivore are rare but they aren't impossible. Regressing CAC scores by 20% is literally impossible.
Carnivore diet is not anti inflammatory, meat doesn't have antioxidant properties. it is eliminating all junk food, wheat gluten and stopping overeating helped you to reduce inflammation, you simply eliminated inflammatory foods.
Saladino has not been on a carnivore diet for a while...he eats fruit, honey, raw milk, fruit juice, etc.
GRifter extraordinaire
@BenjaminKuruga Not exactly, carnivore cured his health problems but after 1.5 years he developed electrolyte issues that only carbs could alleviate. YMMV. Seems like he still avoids grains.
I adopted that same diet, animal based diet. Carnivore made me suffer in term of training performance
Plants have toxins. That's how they protect themselves.
If you're going to do a podcast on something, do some research 1st.
Meat, especially beef, is highly digestible and is the least inflammatory food you can consume. There are many studies on ketosis and it's healing benefits out there.
@@4DTravelr add salt and potassium to your steak, take a magnesium bath. 360 to 212 on carnivore and off most meds 56 6ft 2in old busted up drywall finisher, walking atleast 5 miles a day and lifting even with f ed up shoulders knees and back. Life's about choices.
Dr Shawn Baker has said many times, that if you can tolerate plants then include them. Clearly some people cant, such as Mikaela Peterson. I also think its clear that some people can thrive after several years of eating only meat.
Mikaela Peterson obviously has emotions mental problems. She should thank god every 5 minutes that her daddy is famous.
It's interesting the focus on LDL. On keto or carnivore, insulin sensitivity is improved. What role does insulin resistance play in cardiovascular disease? If LDL was the only culprit, then what of all the people who have heart attacks, etc who have very low levels of LDL. Metabolic disease has so many know issues that can lead to diabetes, stroke, heart issues.
@boydmccollum692 heart attacks cause low ldl-c. Now go check before the event. High ApoB over time kills.
Because ldl is causative for cvd
@@nicacrush We keep being told that but 50% of heart attack victims have low cholesterol, and in a massive study of 10 million people over 12 years in South Korea, those with High cholesterol on average outlived those with low cholesterol.
As one scientist from Johns Hopkins said, if you think LDL causes heart disease, then you think ambulances cause accidents.
In other words, it's correlative, not causative.
« If LDL was the only culprit » well its not, its multifactorial like many things, its just a major one
@@nicacrushPeter isn't as focused on LDL anymore. He's more concerned about APOB now.
I Have been carnivore for several years. I am 71 now. My ldl is 130ish. The dr want me on a statin. I did the risk analysis and decided not to take it. The benefit from the statin was small when compared to the risk. Every one should do their own analysis.
Do a calcium score. CT scan. Make sure your heart arteries are clear.
I'd suggest forget LDL-C. Finally, the medical people are beginning to recognize ApoB, ApoA1, and the ratio as having a much closer association with CVD (and no "U" shape like LDL). Get these tests and see where these three biomarkers are. On Keto, my LDL stayed about where it had been for years, 115-135, but my ApoB/ApoA1 ratio went rock bottom healthiest.
@@johncasper8193 Yeah I did in was not zero but in the teens.
@@rickguymon7702 in the teens, that’s good. My heart doctor told me that just because you have calcium doesn’t mean it’s in the artery. It could be on the outside of the artery, which is not a problem. Only way to know is to have a nuclear stress test.
Appreciate Dr Attia beginning to explore the carnivore diet and not throw it out universally. His logic about treating large elevations in LDL when they occur with individuals on the diet makes sense. At the same time the jury is still out on this in my opinion. Seems pretty clear that there are lean mass hyperesponders who experience an huge elevation in LDL along with a significant drop in triglycerides. Although just one study looked at this and followed the actual progression of coronary plaque in a group of lean mass hypersponders compared to controls in the Miheart Study - the results are noteworthy and need to be repeated at a larger scale. I also believe that is it equally clear you need to measure your levels or you do not KNOW how you are responding. For many there is no big increase or any increase in LDL and in fact there can be significant improvements in overall bllodwork related to cardiovascular risk. So making the assumption that LDL cholesterol levels are an accurate reflection of plaque deposition is not good science - is it? This is far from settled, but whenever I hear anyone - including Dr. Attia - make blanket statements about something like the carnivore diet I lose respect - it is beneath him to do so. In addition, what Paul Salidino does that is called a "carnivore" diet includes copious amounts of fruit and non-fiber carbohydrate. That is a whole different kettle of fish than a true 100% meat, fish, chicken, and egg diet! The scientists that did the work to do the study I referenced above are not charlatans - nor are they suggesting that everyone or anyone should eat a carnivore/ketogenic diet. Dr Attia should recognize this and be willing to admit they "may" be on to something. Neither Nick Norwitz, Dave Feldman or Dominic D'Agostino are fringe whackos making unsubstantiated claims. Dr Attia should have an open discussion with this group as should Layne Norton - who is another person I have tremendous respect for. Walk your talk gentleman and be willing to have an open discussion!
He is so immediately dismissive.. Like he can't grasp how people could even do this.. keeps saying "only lose weight".
Attia's line of thinking is LDL is bad and needs to be lowered as much as possible.
He's in a way self contradictory. In his book Outlive, he describes that certain genetic expressions like the APOE variant play a huge factor why certain people become centenarians despite suboptimal lifestyle choices (like high meat & saturated fat intake, drinking and smoking) and others die early.
Yet, here he makes the blanket statement that high LDL is bad and he uses statins liberally to minimise that risks because randomised control studies focussing on this variable have shown a causal effect.
Some scientists argue cholesterol in itself is not the problem. If it ends up in your arteries it is a symptom of cardiovascular inflammation your body is repairing.
There's also plenty of evidence for excess blood sugar causing inflammation, which may explain why Type 2 diabetes is a huge risk factor in developing cardiovascular disease.
IMO it's foolish to single out a single variable in such a complex system.
I would get a calcium score to actually verify how much plaque has built up before lowering LDL aggressively, especially if your HDL is high and your triglycerides low.
@@opusdei51my husband and I had the same LDL at one point:101. I had a coronary artery scan at 53. Zero plaque on n my coronary arteries. I had a carotid ultrasound at 58. Zero plaque. My husband had a coronary artery scan at 60- 135 with plaque in every artery including the widow maker.
@@opusdei51 amen
In this video I felt I was listening to two 1980s individuals who still believe that high LDL causes cardiovascular disease. If a person's LDL rises after going low carb/keto/carnivore and all their metabolic numbers are improving, and their LDL goes up, you don't go and tell them to medicate that LDL downwards. The body is a lot more intelligent than the two gentlemen in this video. The LDL is going up for a reason. That doesn't mean something bad is happening. And why are they calling this dyslipidemia?
This meta-analysis is from 2018. It appears that lowering LDL for people over 100mg/dl remains effective in preventing cardiovascular mortality. pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5933331/
The carnivore diet is our optimal diet. Its our species specific species appropriate diet. Has been for over 4 mill years as pre humans and humans beings. We have only eaten grains for around 12000 years. Its a drop in the ocean and in no way have we adapted at all to eating any form of carbohydrate. In fact all carbs are non essential. All plant food is non essential. BTW the way calories cannot be consumed, cannot be brought to rest and are mass less. I thought an MD would know this. You cannot eat heat energy. Its physically impossible. Humans only eat Mass, and nothing else. We use chemical energy not heat energy. We are open systems not closed.
Funny thing. Before I started carnivore, I was extremely nutrient deficient for decades and nobody said anything.
Now I’m getting more bioavailable vitamins and minerals than ever before, my mental and physical ailments are gone…
and now suddenly everyone thinks I’m nutrient deficient and says I need supplements?
Haha same. It's hilarious. Why the hell am I not dying from scurvy? Funny thing is, my dentist said my gums have stopped bleeding and are the best they've ever been lol.
@@Minisquid100 That's because you aren't eating the sugar and simple carbs. The same happened to me.
Same here and my 20-30 family and friends that are getting a 2nd life on carnivore and telling all
The stupid doctors- fuck you and your ignorant stupid soma -
No more stupid meds and a bunch of ignorant doctors telling us: “oh, I don’t know why you feel like shit or have pain? You just old. Here’s a bunch of meds I need to write you so that pharma can give me more stuff”
@@Therealmathilda the point was scurvy causes bleeding gums
Have we ever considered where our starting point should be and how far we have may have potentially moved it? I mean isn't it interesting that no other animals are having to sit around and discuss what their optimal diet is? The only animals that get sick are domesticated ones eating our unnatural food or food that isn't evolutionarily appropriate to them. Why is the rest of the animal kingdom getting by with optimal or near optimal health? Perhaps we are still making it too complicated. Somehow, we've convinced ourselves that these truths of nature don't apply to us. Humans are omnivores, yes. They have the capacity to eat plants and even more so since we cook. However, this doesn't mean that we aren't primarily carnivorous. The ppl in the carnivore community explain a lot of this brilliantly. The proof is in the pudding. If everything humans require can be found in animals but not so in plants then......and then? The truths go on and on like this. Plus you guys really discount all those conflicting studies on LDL. Including at least one or two that had to be dug out of someone's basement because they were "disappointed by the conclusion."
There is also a metabolic shift in fat cells where they utilize more nutrient energy than needed to make the ATP required for the cells to do their work. In a sense, they waste nutrient energy (fat). And because it is a natural process, the body doesn't defend the fat loss like it does when you cut calories. You might end up eating less, but that's because your body is getting extra calories from stored body fat. How do you not know this?
I found it more sustainable if I add salsas, condiments, carrots to a roast, the occasional citrus or berries. And as a woman, I need chocolate once in a while 😂 so I drink the chocolate collagen as hot cocoa. It’s better than I was before! I can sustain this and I’ve gotten rid of my diabetes.
I prefer onions and peppers with my beef.
Peter, by far the best person to talk to about the carnivore diet is Dr Paul Mason - he is the most calm, most well-read, most brilliant person to talk to - please organise to put all you questions to him in an interview.
Pity he is conflicted
I have an entire family with diabetes, arthritis, autoimmune, ibs, obesity, chronic fatigue, high blood pressure, high triglycerides, slow wound healing that all reversed and all
Of us - 40-80years old -
5 -10
Months later are all now thriving
Lost over 20 lbs of visceral fat, and gaining more than 5-10% muscle
Wounds heal in 2-3 days, not 2-3 months
No more allergies or dependence on antihistamines
No more diabetes or reliance on insulin
No more high blood pressure and dependence on any meds
No more muscle pain , arthritis, or inflammation- no more reliance on my more steroids!
Insane clarity - mentally
Insane energy- no more chronic fatigue.
Arm and hand strength all back
Even black hair is growing back!
No more IBS, bloating, gas or any heart burn
@Weeweesilly not good enough evidence lol. Anecdotes don't count, even if it's in the tens of thousands, including entire families.
I really wanna know what people actually ate before going carnivore. There’s many wrong ways to eat on an omnivore diet, hence they see improvement when they’re told to follow something very restrictive such as carnivore.
@remy8587 They ate huge amount of carbs,cumulatively for years
@@Cradleland7425 they ate ultra-processed foods*. Stop the bullshit. I eat 600 grams of carbohydrates, 150 grams of protein, 120 grams of fiber and only 30 grams of fat per day. My BMI is 22, BP is 100/60, triglycerides are 41 mg/dL, blood glucose is 89 mg/dL, fasting insulin is 4.7, HbA1c is 5.1%.
Carbohydrates are not the problem. Eating unhealthy, man-made food is. My entire extended family has always eaten like this. We never had obesity in our family. People stopped eating our traditional diet (which is heavy in carbs) and started eating a bunch of UPFs, and now there are ~10 obese individuals in the family, all with a lot of autoimmune diseases and even diabetes. I do not doubt that doing the carnivore diet would help lose weight and improve their health, but so would returning to our high-carb traditional diet.
I bet you could all have seen the vast majority of those benefits by cutting out most empty carbs, cutting out sugar and UPF, being in a calorie deficit in order to lose weight and doing some exercise. Plus also cutting out some likely intolerances like gluten. If the only way to achieve this in terms of willpower and sticking to a regimen was to go carnivore then I've nothing against that. But now you should add good stuff back in systematically. Unless you add something back in that you're intolerant to (which is why you do it systematically over time) then I guarantee you'll feel even better.
65 years old, on carnivore for over 11 months now. I wish I have known this diet years earlier!
Wow 2 guys that didn’t research the diet at all give their opinions on its nutritional value
Yeah, stunning and brave.
@PATrainwreck ah, so you are an expert in the field. Brilliant. Please rebut the arguments presented, ideally backed up by pubmed id's of the studies supporting your position. Thank you.
Yep I want my 14 minutes back. These two are clueless
@CvoreAthlete Good to know. Luckily, we have you to set them straight, right? So what specific outcome data from which studies convinced you they are clueless?
Considering there are no placebo controlled, double blind clinical studies on the health effects of the carnivore diet i'd say whatever 'research' you looked at is low quality aswell .....
Remove ultra processed foods and eat in a balanced way and that will be great for 99% of people. It seems that those gushing about their restrictive diets would have gotten similar results on any protocol that removes UP foods.
Exactly!
yes, but the reality is that a high protein / high fat diet HELPS facilitate getting away from the ultra processed, ultra calorie dense foods. If it were an easy thing to do physiologically everyone would just quit and these foods wouldn't exist, but it's not easy and those foods are both enticing and super easy to get.
I just couldn't eat enough. Im 70 kg was eating 2 meals of 500gms each. But I just couldn't get down anymore. On the other hand I had the best stool ive ever had in my life.
Just eat three meals then. Simples.
@HughDWallace 1 kg divided into 3 meals is still 1kg. 😁
When my apoB went sky high on low carb , I adjusted up my resistant carb intake until my apoB went back to my baseline. I found that eating 100 grams of carbs per day was enough to return my apoB to my baseline. Did this 4 years ago. Over time I have increased my carb intake. What I noticed was a greater carb tolerance. My post prandial Blood Glucose spike after eating 60+ grams of carbs was well below the 140 cut off. My fasting blood glucose also dropped to low 90s from 105. What I stay away from any carb that spikes my glucose above 140 . I do think cooling carbs before eating does convert some of the carbs into a resistant starch. So my choice was neither. Adding a medication / drug fix a reaction without first trying a adjustment to diet is a bad idea. Long term effects of drugs are a huge problem with medical practice. Drugs interfere with the biological software in ways that are not understood much better to adjust diet and let the body use the nutrients as needed.
My understanding is that the biggest risk factor for heart disease is insulin resistance or T2 diabetes, not LDL cholesterol. We base biomarkers of health on blood samples from humans eating modern high carb, plant based diets. The carnivore diet is equivalent to many ancestral diets which were largely or exclusively animal based, i.e. low carb, mostly fatty meat.
Back in the 1930s, Dr Weston Price toured the world studying tribal people eating traditional diets. His study populations included Swiss folk in the Alps, Scottish Hebridean islanders, Inuit, North American Indians, Andeans, Pacific islanders, Australian aborigines, Maori and various African tribes. His research came at a unique time when western civilisations was encroaching, and altering the diets of many of these people. In every case, he found that those who still followed their ancestral diet were robustly built, strong, healthy, cheerful, free of tooth decay, and had properly formed dental arches. Those who had adopted Western foods (refined flours, polished rice, sugar, canned foods) had rampant tooth decay (this was the period before flouride toothpaste!), greater susceptibility to TB, malignancies, arthritis and so forth. If the individuals were subjected to a Western diet from birth, they often also had smaller dental arches resulting in crowded, misshapen teeth and breathing problems. This epic work is documented in his book "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration".
After humans switched from being hunter gatherers to farmers, a significant proportion of the diet swapped from meat to grains and vegetables. This was accompanied by a drop in stature and brain size. Ancient humans thrived on an animal based diet until virtually yesterday on an evolutionary time scale. It is hubris on the part of scientists and doctors to think that they know better than ancestral humans or indeed mother nature.
@@1misago While the transition to agriculture did bring some challenges, it also enabled significant advancements in human society. Modern science continues to build on this knowledge to improve our understanding of nutrition and health.
500 year old Inuit mummies who only are meat and fat have massive Atherosclerotic lesions
@@billdublewhopper3064 and the researchers surmised that environmental conditions such as indoor cooking over fires likely contributed to this.
@Minisquid100 that's funny. I guess no one else BBQs. Lolol. That was a guess. Because eating pure fat is great for the arteries. Lol
@@billdublewhopper3064 is your bbq inside?
"We either abandon the diet, or we treat the elevated apo B". Ok, but apparently you can treat it by adding statins or Oreos, your choice!
lol. No. That LMHR is bull
@@Mrfoo2002 yet all the available literature supports it.
@@Mrfoo2002 lolol
How about sweet potato and vegetables lol
@rogercollins239 all literature? Excellent. Bit of a rhetorical question: Can you point me to any CVD event outcome data in the massive amount of literature that supports your statement?
Peter starts out this video with such a negative point of view.. The diet is actually so effective at so many things it is startling.. I have been doing it for a year and losing weight was the least of the amazing benefits of doing the carnivore lifestyle. My calories were typically 70% + fat.. Absolutely the best thing I have ever done in my life.
@@brycefbarnes for me also
Ditto! I’m so satiated
People rarely mention the benefits for mental health and mood regulation. If you suffer from mental illness this diet can be a game changer, literally. These critics always focus on weight loss, sustainability etc when criticising the diet. I wish there was more balance.
Why do you have to treat elevated Apo B? Genuine question? Do we have any evidence that it does harm? Or are we still reverting to the old " cholesterol bad" mantra?
I want to know this as well!
There is only weak, associative evidence. Any honest scientist knows that nutritional studies cannot determine 100% causality. Peter Attia subscribes to the old Ancel Keys' lipid hypothesis. It is now widely established that elevated cholesterol in metabolically healthy individuals does not cause heart disease. The cholesterol found in blocked arteries is simply trying to heal the arterial lesions. It's an immune/repair response.
@rodchung173 No. Oh, except for over 300 studies over decades done in millions. So, not really. Nothing to see here.
@@robertusga huh?
@@robertusga But the studies make false claims that apoB is causal. Studies can only show an association. So yes, cholesterol is found in CVD. But what is it doing there? Is it trying to help repair lesions as part of an immune response or is just a nasty molecule (apart from making all hormones, vitamin D, cell membranes, brain and neurological tissue etc).
11:59 it’s funny to hear him say that people are defensive on the things they believe while also dismissing the idea that LDL might not be a bit as bad as it’s made out to be in people with healthy functioning metabolism
Exactly!!! They are so dismissive. It is hilarious to listen to them both dismiss and mock it over and over
@SteakandChains what is funny is that folks like you make it sound as if there is outcome data from long-running studies showing that "metabolically healthy" is protective against long-term high ApoB. Please, humor us and share the pubmed id's of this hard outcome data that nullifies the hundreds of studies over decades, all showing that long-term high ApoB is causal in CVD.
Bingo. Only oxidized LDL is atherogenic, not native. The protective nature of "large and fluffy" LDL, and the problematic nature of small, dense LDL is because the latter is far more susceptible to oxidation. This is also why VLDL is problematic, i.e., it is especially prone to oxidation.
@JasonActualization hilarious how the carni clowns keep spouting nonsense with 0 outcome data to back up their "LDL is a myth!" gibberish.
@JasonActualization and oxidation and glycation is due to high blood glucose/hyperinsulinemia which is from red meat eating SAD diet, not a carnivore diet.
Paul Saladino eats carbs. Shawn Baker is basically a carnivore. Makes all the difference. My rule of thumbs, never mix carbs and fat! Have one energy or the other and use them! However, we have the opportunity to eat meat on the daily. High protein is the key!
"one or the other", "never do both carbs and fat". How is this thinking objectively? No, just avoid doing things in excess, try to find the right balance. Anything becomes bad when done in excess...
@@HoobaBros mixing carbs and fat activates the Randle cycle which is harmfull to the mitochondrial mecanism. It' like booze, most can tolerate it but high doses end up wrecking your health, especially with people with already poor metabolism.
That's one of the reasons why carnivore is so successful as a cure to metabollic dseases.
High protein is "the key" only if the main goal is to lose weight. Carnivore works really well when it is high in fat (for hormones, anti inflammation, better fuel for the brain, easier bowels....). Most carnivore Drs recommend at least 75% of fat in total calories intake so a carnivore diet is essentially a high fat diet, contrary to the popular beliefs.
Paul admittedly eats a lot of carbs & sugar - lots of fruits & honey 🍯
These two carry on about high LDL on a carnivore diet and arterial sclerosis - just scan for soft plaque build up over time 🤷♂️
Has that been done and what’s the outcome?
Did I miss the science bit?
Exactly 😂
If you guys don't know about carnivore just ask Bart Kay he will teach you what you don't understand about it
Funny thing you posted that right now. I started eating carnivore since last Wednesday. For the past 5 years I was struggling with chronic inflamation that caused in my case depression and anxiety. It is terrible. Negative and s thoughts more than less, struggling in all kinds of relationships.I've been taking meds, going to therapy. It helped but at the same time caused side effects. I must admit that I'm on and off with treatment and recently it was more off than on due to financial reasons.I heared about carnivore before but recently heared that it is also anti inflammatory. It may seem unbelievable but just after 2 days my thoughts started to went away and day after day it is becoming better. Honestly I haven't felt better in the past 5 years, and I'm just 31.
I'm a big fan of you Peter and treat you as an authority. I've never read articles before and you made me become fascinated in sicience.
I strongly disagree with people commenting, that you haven't done your research, because I know you base your opinions on studies which there aren't many at the moment of carnivore diet. I see that you are concerned with high levels of LDL, because you probably had many patients that it caused to suffer from heart disease. Also many people doesn't realise this episode aired 2 years ago.
Contrary to this there is a study being held right now on effects of (very) hight LDL levels on carnivore dietitians and people with normal levels on their cardiovascular system. The results should be available by mid 2025 so I'll be looking forward to hearing from you when it's going to be out.
What bothered me at 11:53 your guest downgraded the benefits of the diet that people doing it are experiencing, because of risk of heart disease, and said it could all be cured with medications. I'm not an advocate of not taking meds, a lot of them had helped me throughout the years. But! If there is a behavioural change that I can make, I don't see a reason to take them. Also many people can't afford often expensive doctors and medications for their diseases.
I may be biased because of my miraculous results and I probably shouldn't be so positive but I'm enjoying probably best days of my life at least for now. Looking forward to this LDL reaserch and I hope you'll cover it, even though I know you are not really into diet subject. If they prove it doesn't cause worsening of cardiovascular system, there wouldn't be any major downsides for going carnivore anymore.
First points out that mechanistic approach"lectin bad therefore don't eat these plants" is bad. Then uses same approach "high LDL bad for CVD, so they should treat it" without any evidence of high LDL carnivores getting any more CVD.
My exact thought hearing this.
PLEASE, please do a full episode on this topic, Dr. Attia!
There are so many conflicting opinions on this topic that, for a layman, it becomes impossible to decide and ultimately ends up in one of the two echo chambers at either end of the spectrum.
I give up! Eating carbs makes you sick, eating meat makes you sick, eating dairy makes you sick, eating vegetables makes you sick! What the hell am I supposed to eat!?? I also don’t want to have to have a biology/medical/nutrition degree just to eat a damn meal! Can anyone tell I’m frustrated!?
Kinda feel the same way
Eat whole real foods. A big factor in all of this is the chemicals and additives in our foods. Prolonged exposure to additives and chemicals and high amounts of fats and sugars combined (a largely unnatural combination in mother nature) is making us obese and sick when these fake "foods" are not consumed in moderation or eliminated altogether. So eat your veggies, your meat, your dairy that is the least processed as possible if you can tolerate it and you will have won the biggest battle that many of us lose because we think that anything in the grocery store at all is a-okay. Not true. Eat real food. Get rid of made up sh*t. You win.
I haven't watched Peter in a while, but he doesn't seem to have kept up with the science at all. I believe the carnivore diet works because it has all the needed nutrients that run the human body, without all the junk, starches, preservatives, pesticides and insulin spikes. For me, it enabled me to reverse my pre diabetes and figure out all my food sensitives. Now I'm back to omnivore, but with an emphasis on meat and fat, with only organic produce. I'm able to have treats here and there, but being very careful with ingredients.
What 'science' has he not keep up with ? there are no placebo controlled double blind clinical studies on the carnivore diet yet, everything we know about it are just anecdotes/theories and this is his opinion ..... also if carnivore gave you 'all the nutrients you needed' why did you add produce back in ?
@@samaa8225 Go Google "keto stanford study" and "carnivore diet study". I know for a fact that I would be healthiest on an all meat diet, but that's not as tasty or fun. So I compromised, AFTER I used it to cure myself. And my husband does keto weekly with treats on the weekends. We both have great blood work, health, etc. Finding ways to balance quality of life and health for us has been key.
@@samaa8225 nor are there those studies on any diet.
Calories don't matter on the Carnivore lifestyle. I have been on it for 18 months and at 70 I am at my high school weight.. but that is not most important. The most important thing is that it makes you metabolically healthy especially for older people. You guys seem a little ignorant about it so you need to educate yourself more before speaking about it. And saturated fat is the most healthy part of any way of eating.
👏👏👏
Agreed!
You would have lost the same amount of weight eating only whole potatoes don’t fool yourself. Elimination of ultra processed foods to any Whole Foods will work.
Still talking about calories? You've missed the point. Listen to Jason Fung, Ken Berry, Gary Fettke and Anthony Chaffee to get better informed! Thanks 😊
Calories aren't usually a problem for Carnivore eaters because they're already struggling with getting down all those steaks 3/4 times a day and have basically lost their apetite, imagine eating minced beef and ribeyes for the rest of your life damn ....
Dr Attia recently said that he wasn’t that concerned anymore about seed oils - that tells you everything about where he is drifting.
One group of people who goes on the carnivore diet have IBS. Chronic diarrhea can lead do a plethora of severe deficiency problems. As a starting point for a elimination diet its really efficient.
Yes many people with gut issues report relief from a carnivore or keto diet. That increased quality of life is valuable and should be studied!
Carnivore is just basically the ultimate elimination diet.
My a.m. glucose was running 125 for months while I was low carb on keto. I’ve been mostly carnivore for 2 months and glucose is down to around 110. I an NOT anti-plant but evidently carb intolerant. Maybe at some point I can reintroduce veggies. I’ve been an organic gardener for years and this is a radical change in behavior. Age 82 and I miss my broccoli. ❤
A fasting glucose of 125 is diabetic. If I go to the gym and work out with weights, the elliptical, but finish off with light cardio to burn off any rise in blood sugar from the lifting, my fasting is 80 to 87. With the same low carb food but no exercise, I am 96.
@ I’m aware that I am over the threshold into diabetes territory….and you are not. My point in writing on this forum is it’s a lengthy process to rectify insulin excess at advanced age. If some young person, reads this and avoids the problem, it’s a step in the right direction. My insulin level has NEVER been tested. This is an error in the Medicare system. My doc is unconcerned about the levels saying that diabetes is a slow moving disease. My situation was preventable….Type 2 diabetes is reversible whether my doc knows that or not.
@@deepost2604 I am actually in the diabetic range 200 if I eat certain foods. Both my parents were diabetic and I have the genetics snp for it. I am extremely insulin sensitive. My problem is I don't produce a lot, but not auto immune diabetes, just my genetics. My comment is to encourage exercise, that's all.
@ I clocked 173 minutes yesterday with over 1/2 of it being in the cardio range…plenty exercise. No sugar in this house for 3 years…low glycemic and low carb for years. On berberine and chromium. Frankly doing everything I can to bring glucose down. Thanks for the encouragement. It’s a slog.
Keto-vegetarian here since 1977. Works super well. At 69 years old I am happy, healthy and fit.
Keep eating your veggies and I’ll stay. Just be healthy that’s it it can’t be one way to get healthy so whatever works.
In all sincerity, what is keto-vegetarian? What plant foods are super high in fat with only a small amount of protein and carbs.?
@@hillsofwifrom the top of my head: olives, avocados, coconut. Seeds and nuts too if you tolerate them. Macadamias are very high in good fats. I expect the biggest challenge on a vegetarian version would be where to get adequate protein from. Soy maybe 🤔
How is it that so many people who are eating the carnivore way have not just reduced their weight but have over all better health. Please interview the likes of Dr Shawn Baker, Dr Anthony Chaffee, Dr Ken Berry. These people are true carnivores and will provide a balanced opinion.
@@EricBanner571 replace "carnivore" with literally any other diet tribe and you can post the same. Just different gurus, who all have "experts are wrong, buy my stuff instead" in common.
Peter, I appreciate you, I’ve read your longevity book. Appreciate a lot of your content & candor about your personal battles. Just think your way off on nutrition. Why wouldn’t you sit down and have a civilized conversation with Paul Saladino or Mark Sisson? It doesn’t have to be strick carnivore, a lot more about quality & focused on the animal products & the correct plant products.
Maybe because Peter is a scientist who goes by hard outcome data from human studies? Saladino and friends not so much. No need for discussions with folks who are not subject matter experts and only have a "all experts are wrong! Big Pharma is out to get you! Buy my (fill in the blanks) instead!" agenda.
Disagree. I’ve thrived eating both keto and then carnivore. I also think they presented without any apparent extreme bias. Notice how neither one demonizes eating carnivore. I really appreciated this content.
@@roseboogie75 Attia started off showing his negative bias quite clearly
@@Minisquid100 and he both professes and owns it. It’s a huge step forward to say that I am biased bc of xyz and here’s what I think. Everyone has a bias and he owned his.
@@Minisquid100 Having doubts is a sign of a good understanding of science, you probably have a strong positive Bias and that's why you react emotionally to him not being positive about. I thought he was quite neutral on the topic and not more critical towards this compared to other strict elimination diets.
What baffles me in this conversation is what seems obvious. Don't we have imaging techniques that can establish your cardiovascular health? Don't we have other lab tests that can give indicators as to whether the carnivore diet is actually a good long term strategy? Would it not make sense to test this stuff yearly, which presumably insurance would pay for, in order to determine the truth? Otherwise it is just sort of guessing, which is frustrating for everyone.
Dr. Saladino has not been strict carnivore or carnivore in general for a couple of years. In his last blood work review his total cholesterol was 222, LDL 151, HDL 53, Triglycerides 89, and APO B 129. If you going to call out someone, find out if anything has changed.
These are good readings.
Over three months into the carnivore diet with daily intermittent fasting, and the results are life-changing! Here are my numbers:
* Weight: Down 30 pounds
* Blood Pressure: Improved from 139/90 to 123/73
* Glucose Levels: Dropped from 123 mg/dL to 102 mg/dL
* Ketones: Now at 3.0 mmol/L
* GKI (Glucose Ketone Index): 1.8
This combination has truly transformed my health and my life!
Wow, Attia starts off explicitly stating his bias. "... they all lose weight, and it just must be because they are tired of eating...". What a dufus.
The less than 1% of people for whom carnivore is sustainable will never fathom why it's unsustainable for the 99%.
when you watch that video, you are left with the general notion that high LDL is directly and singularly related to CVD, is that true though ? what about the two types of LDL ? what about the level og TG or HDL ? Theres something not very convincing about this video if you also consider the fact that they talk about "treating" high LDL, meaning medication.. hmm
They went to the same medical school. How's that working out for us??
Of course it's not otherwise nobody would have heart disease anymore.
Cut the carbs and get well.Eleven kilos in eleven weeks so far for me with no hunger
But isn’t it only the small, dense, oxidized LDL (oxLDOL) that is the problem? And don’t carbs increase the likelihood of small, dense LDL, whereas fats increase the likelihood of large, fluffy LDL (noLDL), thereby decreasing risk of heart disease?
What about Dr Chaffee neuro surgeon, Dr Obadia cardiac surgeon , Dr Palmer Psychiatric, Dr Berry MD ? Are they all ideological ?
They are all carnivore advocates.
The fact that you don’t have studies does not mean it is bad.
I wish doctors like you guys were more curious and less biased.
Agree. Attia is so arrogant. Reminds me of some CDC/NIH guys from about 4 years ago.
They say there's no studies to refer to😮 just look at the Inuits and some African tribes that just eat meat, fat and blood. Paul salidino has not been carnivore for almost a year, these guys are misinformed
13:03
Exactly that. Someone says they're not eating plants or sugar and people lose it, but someone says they're ELIMINATING meat and people think THAT's healthy?
LDL is not a concern. Look into the science by Feldman and Bikman and others.
I'd appreciate the link or more info about the study mentioned, regarding the relationship between carnivore diet and LDL.
Check out Dave Feldman and Nick Norowitz and the LMHR study
Are you worried about cardiac events, I believe hypertension and diabetes are greater risk factors and generally improved on carnivore. Honestly, the focus should be on oxidative phosphorylation vs Warburg effect, deuterium depletion is the key, this was totally ignored.
I just did carnivore for 2 months in hopes to help with my chrons/ulcerative colitis. It did help make me more regular but it took a while. The downside is I just had no energy and mentally it was depressing tbh. I started eating carbs again a little over a week ago and I feel like a super human! My training and recovery has dramatically improved. The only other upside to carnivore I can think of is that my physique did aesthetically improve
what do you eat for carbs?
@JoJo-oc8oq All carbs but sugar and gluten.
@@codyodom6114 any oatmeal?
@@JoJo-oc8oq Not really actually. It aggravates my chrons/UC
On carnivore for about 55 days did not lose a pound and never had any energy.
Carnivore diet is a scam. The meat industry started funding influencers about 5 years ago to propagate it. Follow the money.
@@barb0138 your body often recomposes, replacing fat with muscle. Do your clothes fit better?
I was on a pescatarian diet for 6 years and Psoriasis started around both my eyes, looked like a racoon. Switched to carnivore and it went away, alos feel amazing. Now the only time that it comes back is if I cheat and have sugar, ice cream, chocolate, or yogurt thats sweetened. Jordan Peterson, Tammy Peterson & Mikhaila Peterson have all been on this diet for several years and all have had health issues reversed.
@jayblack3404 I was omnivore for 50 years and switched to 100% plant based for 3 years. Psoriasis, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, high A1C all resolved. That doesn't mean every one should be plant based. I am not anymore, I miss filet mignon and cheese too much. Any restrictive diet can improve health, doesn't mean it's "the best". Carnivore diets are typically dropped after a few years, just like other fad diets. All of them have issues.
your'e an outliner with health conditions, Carnivore is still not advisable for 99% of the healthy population.
@samaa8225 even if he is not, doesn't negate the fact that high ApoB needs to be treated to prevent CVD. But somehow, they all disappear in a "Bitcoin, Meat good; every other diet and medicine bad!" bubble. Fascinating.
@@samaa8225 by who? And where did you get 99%?
@@robertusga this is explained by the Randle Cycle.
Peter & I have no idea who the other dude is… this video won’t age well.
Why does eating plants make sense when human - the exact species that we are have been in documented existence from fossils have been around for at least 300k years. The same isotope testing that scientifically confirms that T-Rex are carnivore & Brontosaurus are herbivores- confirms that humans - before we discovered or learned how to farm
In the last 10,000 years (the last 2%) of our existence - we are carnivores.
Evolution is a science and show me any animal that can evolve in less than 10k years to be able to suddenly go from
Eating 99% carnivore to 70-90% plant/ herbivores?
All plants have cellulose and you need to make the enzyme cellulase to digest anything with cellulose. We - as an entire species- not only have no digestive organ to digest plants , but also no enzymes- cellulase to digest cellulose.
Oh - yes, we do have a tiny little “cecum” that’s less than 1cm and a useless appendix. This cannot be used to argue that our bodies can suddenly evolve from eating 99% meat to now 70-90 plants with a 1 cm sized cecum.
So listening to the two of you sounds like two flat earthers trying to be “sensitive” towards the crazies that know the earth is round 😅😅
This is where things get tricky. I adopted a carnivore approach as it cured my IBS, and eliminated joint pain. My focus is entirely health, not belonging to a weird vegan like cult.
I do have elevated LDL ( although all other markers are good) but how do I lower LDL without jeopardizing all the carnivore benefits??
You didn't address the actual claim that carnivore advocates make, which is that LDL alone doesn't cause heart disease and requires metabolic dysfunction or inflammation to become oxidised LDL.
Kudos to Stephan for not taking Attia's bait to just try and just trash carnivore.
You should do a podcast on it though I think we'd love to see a deep dive on something so strange
There are hundreds of podcasts out there taking the deep dive on this subject. When you read the testimonials from everyday people thriving on this WOE, you really question the " experts" assessments. Rockefeller science (medical school) and the truth are light years apart.
I think that in your arguments you touch on the fact that what matters most is not LDL but rather the endothelial dysfunction caused by insulin spikes
@@alissonsantos9563 no CVD events without high ApoB and Ldl-c. Regardless of insulin.
Once again Attia waffles on about something he "hasn't really considered". Adds no science or references and makes sweeping statements that are just wrong.
He is a charlatan when talking about diets and this one in particular.
He hasn't even done a N=1 and tried it himself. He really is a joke at this point.
Nice summary. Missed the opportunity to note that the lean mass hyper responder crowd is addressing the extremely high LDL probable risk. Although only short term data so far, the results are interestingly promising. It is only addressing a very very mall group whom are fit and very lean which would mask or delay the onset of CVS disease. So inherently they will have to wait decades for data to come in that will tell which way this diet tips the balance. But they certainly are not just putting their heads under the sand and hoping for the best.
Being ketovore has been brilliant for my arthritis
Peter is so so dimissive. Fascinating that he could so quickly have a biased view. The Carnivore diet makes so much sense from an evolutionary perspective. What a negative conversation.. "Even tap water is seen as negative". OMG. such a poor discussion right out of the gate. Like these two guys are both triggered by something they do not understand..
following an 'evolutionary perspective' in this day and age is nonsense, eating like cave men who ran 10-20 miles a day to catch their dinner while your sat on your coach all day won't yield the same result, they also lived to about 30 years old so we can't really use them as an example of a good diet to follow .....
very low carb for over a year, feel better, more consistant energy, lost 50 pounds. i believe folks try to lump all people into these tests when i think genetics plays a role in what a person will tolerate or thrive on. what works for me might not work for you due to genetics. diets are the broad brush that need to be tailored to the individual. when i did "cheat" my body scolded me the next day. get out in the air and sunshine, do a bit of excersize and connect
People, this is a short clip from a much longer discussion lol. They have the right to comment on it briefly if they want to given their backgrounds as part of a larger conversation, they aren’t claiming to have all the answers, it’s a conversation.
This clip is from episode 212 - The Neuroscience of Obesity with Stephan Guyenet, Ph.D.
Eat how you want, but our teeth and eyes prove we humans are omnivores. Vegans and Carnivores are both wrong.
Have a look at low carb down under, for lots of good feedback on this
We’re all different at different times and in different seasons. It goes on and on. One size doesn’t fit all. Let’s get into the micros. We need to learn to eat healthy for ourselves changing it up or down depending on our needs. Keep learning, experimenting, and finding what works for you
I have been carnivore for a year and a half
I graduated top of my class with honors in nineteen ninety eight as a licensed practical nurse.
I went through 3 semesters of phone calls and after I got done with pharmacology.This is my own self evaluation I came up with.
Never go on any kind medications.
You end up on one medication.You will end up on another one to counter act the side effects from that medication.
I already wrote something earlier.About a hundred and twenty five pounds are lost and i'm in the best health of my lifetime.
I am almost 55 years old and I never take any medications unless it's occasionally a Benadryl to help me to sleep or if I.
Might need a Tylenol for something. I guess the answer for most people will always be just take a pill for that.
I thought Peter Attia was pretty smart until seeing this video. I’m a truck driver and I’m more informed than he is on the carnivore diet and the false connection between high LDL and cardiovascular disease
That was my thought exactly. Attia sounds like a novice regurgitating old, tired stuff.
The world needs more of this. Not arguments demonizing, and not arguments idolizing. People look for answers but what they mostly find is propaganda in sheep’s clothing and it’s so incredibly risky and infuriating.
Sorry guys, not your best work, bordering on pathetic tbh. It's almost like you've done no research and never tried it yourself ...... why not get Anthony Chaffee on , he seems to be somewhat of an encyclopedia on the subject. Honestly even I could have provided a more open outlook & better info (yes anecdotal, but that's how all information starts off) And as for "maybe your a little bias" Peter ...... well duh !
Enjoyed the comments though , it seems you followers have it covered better than you do.
I really like that Dr. Attia is skeptical when talking about this or any diet fad. I went on carnivore a few years ago, and I can say that I lost weight and had some other inflammation go away, but I really bought into the Carnivore Code and all the hype. What I have learned from Dr. Attia, is that there is always positive and negatives with most popular diets, and that different diets work or don't work for different people. Carnivore seems to fit me well as long as I don't overdo calories and total fat content, but I agree that some people can be a bit militant about their diets. There is a reason we evolved as omnivores...
Isn't ApoB a surrogate marker? If you are concerned about atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease, why not look for the disease directly? Would you recommend against a carotid intima-media thickness test (CIMT), or a coronary artery calcium (CAC) scan, or a coronary computed tomography angiogram (CCTA)?
My triglycerides went from 7.2 mmol to 0.7 mmol in 3 months on carnivore.
The constant barrage of protein gets you jacked AF if you’re lifting weights. I got so strong and so jacked just eating meat. It’s the best shape I was ever in. Since I’ve done a variation of it but nothing worked as well as being 100% into it and just eating meat.
I love the contrast between vegan and carnivore. The biggest difference is carnivore looks healthy and the vegan doesn’t when there is no supplementation . So even if by some slim chance carnivore does harm it doesn’t show. That fact alone should make the detractors curious as to why the appearance of health is so robust.
Since switching to lower carb and slightly more carnivore, my LDL has went up. Triglycerides are low and HDL is high. This has now been almost 3 years and I have never felt better with more energy and less colds and flus, etc.. It’s almost like my immune system has been regenerated. I am a believer that LDL plays a critical role in your immune system And therefore is essential to maintaining a healthy body. Avoid processed foods, and excess carbs and sugars as well as seed oils, and this package is probably the best protection for longevity. Have some berries and the occasional Apple, a small amount of nuts and seeds and some steamed vegetables occasionally.I believe we were made or developed to survive on the protein and quality fats from animals.
If someone has a zero CAC score, and their LDL/HDL ratio is less than 3, does it matter if their total count is over 200? Over 240?
Personal experiences people share is they go on it for a while and reintroduce foods with some success with no return of their problem (even some people who have severe depression/ mood disorders). It’s worthy of considering for some folks.
Disappointed that Attia opined on a subject he clearly doesn't understand.
Its particle size, not number and we have been greatly lied to about cholesterol in general. We have the studies, its call the last 20+ years of people eating less meat more sugar, and heart disease has gone up, not down
I started eating carnivore recently and the weight is just falling off. ITS WILD. But i should add, i still eat natural carbs and sugars like oranges and bananas and dates.
You're just eating less calories hence the weight loss, its usually impossible to eat more than 2k calories of meat in a day without getting fed up of it or throwing up so people tend to end up with in big calorie deficits.
In principle Carnivore diet should be easy to be hypercaloric on... Depending on the cut, you could get a lot of fat-content in various cuts of meat (80/20 or 70/30 ground meats, steaks with fat caps and marbling, poultry cuts with skin), and that variation could be easier to live with than sticking exclusively to lean cuts...
In theory yes. In practice it’s gotta be tough right?
You have to actually eat it as well... Not that easy.
@ElijsDima I have no problem eating the equivalent of 2.5lbs ground beef a day. I'm 5'9" male, 160lbs, 54 yrs. 12% body fat. Workout resistance training most days. Been carnivore a year, ketovore previous 2 years
Great but basic point. All diets have pros and cons. If LDL is high, it could be a red flag, maybe scanning for artery blockage could clear out any concern.
sad to hear your strawmanning the carnivore diet.
zero cred.
Since there is a lot more evidence (due to Dave Feldman's work) on LDL maybe that should be the starting point. When it comes to LDL Peter's work is very myopic. There is plenty of evidence that there is a U-shape curve when it comes to longevity and cholesterol with an optimum range being around 230.
if someone struggles with obesity, keto/carnivore OMAD is top tier. if you are an athlete or train regularly, there are better options.
As a carnivore and Lean Mass Hyper Responder the solution to super high LDL, very high HDL and very low triglycerides, the fix: eat some carbs before working out and use avocado oil. Dropped my LDL 150 points and provides more energy for workouts. So mostly carnivore with a tweak and no statins!!! The main down side is some weight gain.
One of the arguments of carnivore diet advocates is that allegedly there is no medical evidence showing high dietary cholesterol intake demonstrates causation to heart disease, only correlation. However, high blood cholesterol does demonstrate a causal relationship to inflammation (eg, free radicals, stress, elevated insulin levels/resistance). Further, high dietary cholesterol does not directly translate to high blood cholesterol unless dietary glucose is heavily restricted. Last, in 2016 JAMA published “Sugar Industry and Coronary Heart Disease Research: A Historical Analysis of Internal Industry Documents” in which the authors examined internal documents from the Sugar Research Foundation (now known as the Sugar Association) and revealed how the sugar industry funded research in the 1960s to shift the blame for heart disease from sugar to cholesterol.
This is some context of why carnivores mostly minimize the heart disease argument opposing this way of eating.
@jakegardner8854 dietary cholesterol has little effect on serum cholesterol except for hyperabsorber (there are tests for that). High saturated fat does have a direct effect on raising ApoB in many. Bottom line, get your ApoB tested and treat if high. You can still stay carnivore if desired. Not sure why this is controversial.
@ I’m not carnivore (although I do eat a more keto-style diet). My comment is more to provide context to the topic of discussion on the carnivore diet’s impact (and presumed risk) on heart disease. There seems to be a lot of judgment by some medical professionals grounded in beliefs backed by outdated science.
@jakegardner8854 what "outdated science" are you referring to? What outcome data from which specific pubmed id's do you take issue with, and what outcome data from which pubmed id's have superceded it, disproving said "outdated science"?
Have u been following the findings of the LMHR study?
I think the carnivore diet is the single best dietary intervention that there is. I also think it’s an intervention and not the best way to achieve optimal health.