@@ForgottenWeapons I always felt the mud test was kind of the exception that proved the rule in a lot of instances. Stuff like the Luger and the AR-15 do very well in the mud test vs. something like a 1911 or an AK because the former are very tightly sealed while the latter does still allow ingress points. However, that tight seal also means if something does get in, it takes less of it for the guns to gum up and fail, so they require more general maintenance whereas so long as you keep the latter guns out of absolutely extreme conditions (and they're fairly easy to clean even if you do because those same ingress points also allow those things to clear out if you rinse it down), they'll generally work for longer periods of time without problems. Especially since no matter what, there will always be stuff inside the gun simply from the act of igniting gunpowder.
@@ForgottenWeapons One thing you forgot to mention, Ian. In at least two firearms, the Luger and the Pederson trials rifle, the high operating speed of the toggle action (due to the low mass of the toggle action breech) required additional steps. Luger required a high compression spring to ensure cartridges fed fast enough to keep up with the self loading mechanism, and the Pederson required a hard lubricant applied on the surface of the cartridges. I’m not sure what other toggle action firearms required for them to function reliably…
I’d also like to add that in many lever-action weapons (minus a few such as the Winchester 1895), that the lever serves to break an internal toggle which keeps the bolt locked during firing. The lever performs multiple functions, but the toggle lock is one of them.
Looking at toggle action guns I just assumed they were all some form of delayed blowback, didn't realize they could be locked and broken open on a cam surface. Thanks for this dose of knowledge
@@NM-wd7kx the hk line could very easily be modified to roller locked piston driven and solve some of the problems they had to half ass engineer around.
They're an out dated form of locking in gun design, but they're pretty much standard in injection molding doing pretty much the same thing,holding literally tons of presure and controlling the opening action
Also seen in capsule-loaded coffe machines, the ones with a break-lever on top of them. They are actually quite remarkable pieces of mechanical engineering. I recommend everyone to take theirs apart and try and put it back together again. Hours of fun! Lots of useful parts! (I take no responsibility for damages caused by electric shock, fire, water damage, scaulding, explosion)
Ian McCollum has 100% creditailty with me compared to my total lack of trust for cronkite. Cronkite was the man that made me realise that none of the media could be trusted. Sir Ian McCollum covers the total gun, from the hard technical facts to the more abstract areas such as the Cool Factor. Thank you Ian!
I remember making parts for a .22 magnum Luger pistol for John Martz the Luger gunsmith from Lincoln, CA that he was working on. He had formed the ramps so as soon as the cartridge fired it began, operating the toggle system so the system acted more like a delayed blowback. It operated great however, due to the more extreme angle of insertion into the chamber from the magazine it held about 5 rounds of .22 magnum ammunition and he used CCI ammunition exclusively.
Maxim took the design from a locomotive driving gear (recoil-inertia instead of steam pressure). It became a toggle during the manufacturing phase to make things simpler.
😍 amazing video! I'd love to see short little overviews like this for other actions, too! It'd be great to send to friends that have a modest interest in firearms but wouldn't normally watch a longer, more in-depth video. Also, showing how the actions work with a ton of examples was a really good idea, it really helped me understand what you were explaining and what I was looking at!
In a dream I had a few weeks ago, I was literally explaining the toggle lock system of the Luger and Pedersen rifle to my cousins. Now I have more knowledge to continue this internal monologue. :D
Ian I just want to say thanks for all of the work you do making all of this easily digestible content and putting out information. Going through a firearms technology school and often we are studying different actions and mechanisms, and almost without fail there is a perfect, or a series of perfect videos from you that explains everything perfectly.
You must be aware of the points in the mechanism which will wear first, or break. And also the degree of wear or lack of tolerance each mechanism will withstand. I hope your course goes well.
As a relatively new P08 owner this is a very useful video. I knew roughly how the action worked but I didn't know why it worked that way. Thanks for another excellent video!
It is interesting that by any estimation the toggle-lock system can be categorised as an unqualified success in the firearms world and yet we just no longer see it
There is more than one path to obsolescence. There's feature performance, where the new hotness does the job mich better; and then there is economic feasibility, where the same gets done with greater reliability, dependability, and/or ease of production and cost.
its where roller delayed is headed, neat, does what its supposed to do, but there's other simpler to manufacture ways to do it. only like H&K still keep up roller delay systems and they're moving away from that to traditional locking lugs
Thanks for these insights to the mechanisms of the various firearms you've covered. I have a fascination with firearms but haven't used any since a kid, and they were either bolt action or double barrel shotguns, so these explanations into semi+ full automatic weapons, fill a gap in my knowledge. Thanks again.
This was a great presentation, thanks.! The luger is without a doubt one of the most iconic and desirable firearms ever! To say nothing of grace and beauty!
When I was a kid and I'd see old B&W movies that showed the Luger, I always noticed how different it looked and wondered how it functioned. Thanks for posting this video.
I'd like to see some graphics, maybe even animated, that show where the forces go to illustrate how a toggle actually works. "In a line, a bit like a knee" is adequate if you already get it, but not particularly illuminating in itself. I prefer to refer to this kind of locking mechanism for other engineering purposes as an "over centre lock" because the "knee" needs to travel beyond the centre line of the force and come up against a hard stop before it is truly stably locked.
Yes, there are aircraft landing gears that use a similar concept to keep them "down and locked" until either a hydraulic or electric actuator pulls the "knee joint" past the over center point, then the whole gear can be folded up into the wheel well.
Cool and weird looking, safe but expensive. I like the look it has. Also, on a gun that locks open on an empty mag/clip that uses a toggle action it's litteraly Impossible to not notice it being empty. And yes, not realizing a gun is empty is something that can happen in a stress situation, when u just want to hear bang bang, not click click. Especially revolvers where known for that because almost all the parts will work even without gas pressure from a cartridge.
Interestingly, this type if action is still heavily used in industrial machines as a knee-joint. Maybe this use inspired the first smashingly successful repeating firearm action, the volcanic-Henry. Still used and manufactured 150 years later.
My great grandfather's old pump action 22 Winchester opens up on top, is that another version of a toggle action? It was made in 1914 and is a family heirloom. Still a tack driver too.
For whatever reason, the Victorians loved toggles, and used them in all kinds of mechanisms where they needed force amplification--especially where it was desired to have the mechanical advantage change through the course of the stroke. Toggles were used to drive the platens of printing presses, for lever-action rifles, of course, and for many clamps, closures and clips (some of which designs are still in use). I think they were popular because, while they required some precision in machining, it is only the location of a few holes that needs to be really accurate. That's easier to accomplish with 19th century machine tools than it is to carve precision cam profiles. Seems like toggles have largely disappeared in modern engineering. Screws, cams, or even hydraulic and electrical solutions can easily be made with modern technology, and I suspect they can be more resistant to the wear issues that cause toggle mechanisms to go out of adjustment.
Yes thanks! I never really gave toggle action much thought. But the simplicity plus it's place in firearms history is pretty cool Thanks again Patron Bill Haha 😄
i quite liked the simplicity and intrinsic strength of the toggle lock. spent some time wondering if it could use a 270 degree recoil like that weird clockwork rifle
The other big problem with toggle systems is that when locked they load pins that must rotate in shear, and thus wear them out more quickly. For example what made the Winchester-style lever actions capable of handling more energy was Browning adding locks other than the lever parts. Mark Novak did a piece on this but looks like it has since been removed after his content was deleted from the. C&Rsenel channel :(
Hello, Ian! Can you recommend some books or videos to understand the physics and chemics behind firearms? I would like to fully understand the science applied to weapons, specially fierarms. Thank you very much, for such a specialized channel in firearms. I have learned A LOT with "Forgotten Weapons"
Especially for chemistry, I can recommend something I found from the US Army Materials Command, google "amcp 706 105". If somebody has more info on the physics, I would appreciate it!
Are the linkages on the luger perfectly in line or are they slightly over center in the down position? I've been working on rebuilding a set of aircraft landing gear lately and there are lots of joints that go over center to lock and I've been daydreaming of lugers most of the time 🤣🤣🤣
I simply think of all delayed blowback guns as such as rollers; radial and knee joint as degresive springs. But each mecanism giving them the opportunity to be slugtly altered from almost a linear speing to very varying in force from extended to compressed. Each of them tuned to the preassure curve for echa cartridge. Though that is their limitation. They are hard to tune sins the sitt gap where they are ok are so limited. Thus a limited amo choise.
I wish they still made toggle actions can you imagine hunting with a sporting style pedersen rifle built by like Remington or something in a really nice cartridge like 243 Winchester
@@axelpatrickb.pingol3228 the Taurus judge still sells doesn't it? How about anything keltec makes? Also the comments was just meant to be for discussion of what ifs I'm not stupid enough to think someone is going to build a modern toggle action
Ok that really cleared things up for me. I Would love more of these! Short and sweet! Also does toggle action effect the odds of a round failing to chamber? From the slow mo footage it looks like a really precise process of loading the next round from the magazine to the chamber and seems like something that could fail pretty often. What do I know though I just an a gun fan from afar who doesnt own any sadly.
I’m by no means an expert, but I would think that the reliability of a toggle action would have more to do with the execution of the feeding system than the locking mechanism. After all, if it was unreliable, they wouldn’t have had been so widely adopted. Also, the Maxim and Vickers had a reputation for extreme reliability.
no more so than any other self loading system baring a few odd ones, the action of a self loading firearm can be broken down into a couple of parts, the feed system, the locking system, and the firing system, and for the most part every category of those systems works with each other, like say a striker fired belt fed roller delayed gun, or a hammer fired magazine fed short recoil rifle the paterson rifle did have a problem with extraction, being a toggle delayed rifle, its cases needed to be specially coated in a wax lubricant to properly extract due to the higher pressures experienced
I have a Luger and all of the feeding/ejection issues I've ever had were from loads that weren't powerful enough to properly operate the action. If you shoot factory 115gn rounds, it will stovepipe once (possibly more) every magazine. 124gn factory loads will stovepipe once every 2-4 magazines. If I handload 124gn rounds according to the scary red numbers (max loads), it cycles fine every time. I'd assume factory 147gn rounds would probably work fine.
More of the mechanical principles of firearms; love it. Now I still want gun Jesus to explain to me how the rotating barrel lock functions on the B&T MP9 sub machine gun works....please educate me.
What we need now is a whole line of modern Toggle Action guns in a variety of calibers. Just for fun that is, and just because we can. Think Luger action aesthetics but scaled up to 7.62mm x 51mm, or even a PCC in 7.62mm Tokarev or 7.62mm Mauser.
@@donovanchilton5817 Expensive, unnecessary, and redundant in the modern world. But, I'm of the mindset that weirder is cooler. Thus, I would really want one.
Could you do some videos that go into detail about other common terms that you use. Like “the action”, “closed bolt”, “delayed blowback”, “roller delayed”, etc, etc.
Are the sections of the toggle arranged in a slightly over centre manner so that the force directly rearward ensures it stays locked until it hits the cam, or they actually straight and very precisely so?
Question! Why is a toggle-lock more susceptible to ingress of dirt and fouling than other types of moving bolts? I understand that in practice, the Luger and many other toggle-locks have the bolt fully or partially exposed, but it seems to me that a toggle-lock could be fully enclosed similar to a modern rotating-bolt self-loading action? Would it not be possible to make a toggle-lock action where the bolt has a significantly shorter travel than a rotating bolt, essentially 'collapsing' on itself?
@@808bigisland I'm thinking in terms of military arms, since that's my interest. Protection against fouling, in particular dust but really any sort, is much more important for military weapons than for personal carry guns.
Toggle actions are the pop up headlights of the gun world. An obsolete invention but is so aestheticaly cool it deserves a comeback.
How about a lego gun that uses this system?
ruclips.net/video/5bqUIorOmoI/видео.html
POPUPUPANDDOWNHEADLIGGHTS
HEADLIGHTS GO UP
HEADLIGHTS GO DOWN
Vacuum canister and vacum lines ohhh my!
I support the comeback of both
"Toggle action susceptible to fouling."
Luger: still unbeaten in the InRangeTV mud test.
The Luger is well sealed up, but it's not a good day once something does get in.
@@ForgottenWeapons I always felt the mud test was kind of the exception that proved the rule in a lot of instances. Stuff like the Luger and the AR-15 do very well in the mud test vs. something like a 1911 or an AK because the former are very tightly sealed while the latter does still allow ingress points. However, that tight seal also means if something does get in, it takes less of it for the guns to gum up and fail, so they require more general maintenance whereas so long as you keep the latter guns out of absolutely extreme conditions (and they're fairly easy to clean even if you do because those same ingress points also allow those things to clear out if you rinse it down), they'll generally work for longer periods of time without problems.
Especially since no matter what, there will always be stuff inside the gun simply from the act of igniting gunpowder.
@@ForgottenWeapons One thing you forgot to mention, Ian. In at least two firearms, the Luger and the Pederson trials rifle, the high operating speed of the toggle action (due to the low mass of the toggle action breech) required additional steps. Luger required a high compression spring to ensure cartridges fed fast enough to keep up with the self loading mechanism, and the Pederson required a hard lubricant applied on the surface of the cartridges. I’m not sure what other toggle action firearms required for them to function reliably…
@@User_Un_Friendly The 5.7 also has a coating that was supposedly for feeding/extraction from what I've heard. Not toggle delayed, just blowback.
@@randomidiot8142 Ian needs to do a video on the FN 5.7. 😋. Pistol and the P-90. 😉
I’d also like to add that in many lever-action weapons (minus a few such as the Winchester 1895), that the lever serves to break an internal toggle which keeps the bolt locked during firing. The lever performs multiple functions, but the toggle lock is one of them.
Yup - I was only thinking about self-loaders for this video.
Yeah! Also that old Volcanic Pistol was exactly like that as well! However not a self loader..
Some modern biathlon 22 rimfire rifles also use a toggle.
@@ForgottenWeapons Time for a revised video. 🤣
@@Willy_Tepes and airguns.
Looking at toggle action guns I just assumed they were all some form of delayed blowback, didn't realize they could be locked and broken open on a cam surface. Thanks for this dose of knowledge
It's like finding out about roller locking for the first time after knowing about the roller delayed blowback H&K line
@@NM-wd7kx the hk line could very easily be modified to roller locked piston driven and solve some of the problems they had to half ass engineer around.
They're an out dated form of locking in gun design, but they're pretty much standard in injection molding doing pretty much the same thing,holding literally tons of presure and controlling the opening action
As long as you're not trying to injection mold in mudfilled trenches it should be a good choice. Still very interesting.
Yes Castmaster used it on their presses
@@Biped idk man those shops get pretty dirty...
No such thing as "tons of pressure." That's an oxymoron. Maybe tons of FORCE? Huge difference- eschew fuzzification.
@@jacquesblaque7728ton is a force, pressure is force/area so given an area a ton can be used in lew of pressure
Also ton is a euphemism for alot
Also seen in capsule-loaded coffe machines, the ones with a break-lever on top of them.
They are actually quite remarkable pieces of mechanical engineering.
I recommend everyone to take theirs apart and try and put it back together again.
Hours of fun!
Lots of useful parts!
(I take no responsibility for damages caused by electric shock, fire, water damage, scaulding, explosion)
We shall never forget the unfortunate casualties of coffee maker explosions...
I’m Ian McCollum with forgotten weapons and that’s the way it is.
Amen.
I haven't seen lay in a damn long time. Hope he's doing ok.
Ian McCollum has 100% creditailty with me compared to my total lack of trust for cronkite. Cronkite was the man that made me realise that none of the media could be trusted.
Sir Ian McCollum covers the total gun, from the hard technical facts to the more abstract areas such as the Cool Factor. Thank you Ian!
Thank you so much Gun Jesus for blessing me with this knowledge. Ive being calling the Luger's action the funny folding slide for years now.
It still is a funny folding slide despite knowing the proper nomenclature! :P
I remember making parts for a .22 magnum Luger pistol for John Martz the Luger gunsmith from Lincoln, CA that he was working on. He had formed the ramps so as soon as the cartridge fired it began, operating the toggle system so the system acted more like a delayed blowback. It operated great however, due to the more extreme angle of insertion into the chamber from the magazine it held about 5 rounds of .22 magnum ammunition and he used CCI ammunition exclusively.
I bloody love these "How Does It Work" series of videos
A certain Mister Furrer from Switzerland would like to have a word with you, about the supposed problems with toggle locks.
I was about to say the same. I've heard he's Furrious that his starring role was cut from this short film.
Loads tankbuchse 41 with malicious intent .
Love these overview videos for locking systems. With multiple examples it really helps to convey how they work far better than a single firearm.
huh, never realized that the maxim gun operated on toggle action
Check out C&Rsenals videos on the maxim guns used in WWI
ruclips.net/video/5sn346sYXys/видео.html
Maxim took the design from a locomotive driving gear (recoil-inertia instead of steam pressure). It became a toggle during the manufacturing phase to make things simpler.
Today was a good day then
😍 amazing video! I'd love to see short little overviews like this for other actions, too! It'd be great to send to friends that have a modest interest in firearms but wouldn't normally watch a longer, more in-depth video. Also, showing how the actions work with a ton of examples was a really good idea, it really helped me understand what you were explaining and what I was looking at!
In a dream I had a few weeks ago, I was literally explaining the toggle lock system of the Luger and Pedersen rifle to my cousins. Now I have more knowledge to continue this internal monologue. :D
Ian I just want to say thanks for all of the work you do making all of this easily digestible content and putting out information. Going through a firearms technology school and often we are studying different actions and mechanisms, and almost without fail there is a perfect, or a series of perfect videos from you that explains everything perfectly.
You must be aware of the points in the mechanism which will wear first, or break. And also the degree of wear or lack of tolerance each mechanism will withstand.
I hope your course goes well.
As a relatively new P08 owner this is a very useful video. I knew roughly how the action worked but I didn't know why it worked that way. Thanks for another excellent video!
While I knew how it worked this is the best description I've ever seen of how/why the toggle action works. Excellent video!!!
Thanks for the explanation of the Pedersen rifle and its delayed blowback system.
I've never really looked into this type of action, excellently explained!
It is interesting that by any estimation the toggle-lock system can be categorised as an unqualified success in the firearms world and yet we just no longer see it
It's the same thing as any other evolutionary branch that becomes dominant then is replaced.
There is more than one path to obsolescence. There's feature performance, where the new hotness does the job mich better; and then there is economic feasibility, where the same gets done with greater reliability, dependability, and/or ease of production and cost.
its where roller delayed is headed, neat, does what its supposed to do, but there's other simpler to manufacture ways to do it. only like H&K still keep up roller delay systems and they're moving away from that to traditional locking lugs
Thanks for these insights to the mechanisms of the various firearms you've covered.
I have a fascination with firearms but haven't used any since a kid, and they were either bolt action or double barrel shotguns, so these explanations into semi+ full automatic weapons, fill a gap in my knowledge.
Thanks again.
I LOVE this no nonsense how it works video series Ian, thanks
Great video Ian I love these short informative videos, keep up the amazing work.
Fascinating. I have long wondered how they worked, and now I know. Thank you, and I am going to save this video so I can watch it again.
This was a great presentation, thanks.! The luger is without a doubt one of the most iconic and desirable firearms ever! To say nothing of grace and beauty!
I love this little series.
How does it work videos are back yay !!
I love this format !!
The beauty of the Luger is mesmerizing, what lines, machining and over all brilliance.
Toggle Action sounds like a niche category that you'd find on a certain different kind of popular video streaming site.
Toggle action is what the moody wife does to your shaft. Ain't supposed to bend like that.
I love my Luger! But I can see where it could get into trouble if it got dirty. A great explanation!👍
I always wondered about this but never had a chance to check it out first hand. Great explanation.
I was waiting for this video for a long time! Now I am happy!
One more gem of a video. I really liked this one
When I was a kid and I'd see old B&W movies that showed the Luger, I always noticed how different it looked and wondered how it functioned. Thanks for posting this video.
I love these kinds of videos a lot!
Was waiting on my daily upload!!
One big fat vote for continuing this series of vids.
Using this in a discussion board post cause everyone else is doing roller delayed blow back, thanks for explanation
Good job explaining !
I'd like to see some graphics, maybe even animated, that show where the forces go to illustrate how a toggle actually works. "In a line, a bit like a knee" is adequate if you already get it, but not particularly illuminating in itself. I prefer to refer to this kind of locking mechanism for other engineering purposes as an "over centre lock" because the "knee" needs to travel beyond the centre line of the force and come up against a hard stop before it is truly stably locked.
Yes, there are aircraft landing gears that use a similar concept to keep them "down and locked" until either a hydraulic or electric actuator pulls the "knee joint" past the over center point, then the whole gear can be folded up into the wheel well.
1:30 Gun Jesus explains very complex mechanisms and physics in simple terms that even I can understand.
Thanks.
I just research Toggle Actions maybe 1,2 days ago this is really good timing for me.
I didn't know I had those questions, but thank you for answering them! :)
Gone, but not forgotten. The toggle-locked Luger will live forever in our minds, and in our hearts!
Thank you. Always wondered how a luger was actuated.
Still by far the best mechanism. The cool factor makes up for any and all shortcomings it may have.
More of these "how does it work" videos, truly educational for my kids.
Thank you for the lesson.
Cool and weird looking, safe but expensive. I like the look it has.
Also, on a gun that locks open on an empty mag/clip that uses a toggle action it's litteraly Impossible to not notice it being empty.
And yes, not realizing a gun is empty is something that can happen in a stress situation, when u just want to hear bang bang, not click click. Especially revolvers where known for that because almost all the parts will work even without gas pressure from a cartridge.
Excellent explanation!! Please more “action explanations”
Oh yes please!
He's done other "how it works" videos
ruclips.net/p/PL9e3UCcU00TRIeypXC53S8r81DZRvoXmu
What about early Henry and Winchester lever actions, they're toggle locks. They still make replicas of those guns.
Not self loading ones though
I think Ian was talking about new designs not copies of old designs.
Yes, and there is still at least one guy making replica Lugers. As has been stated, Ian was talking new designs.
I thought those were falling block actions.
@@geecee12 the later john moses browning design ones were ie the winchester 1886 1892 1894 etc
However the 1860 1866 1873 1876 all were toggle locked
Very precise ammo too
Honestly I was just wondering how these work couple of weeks ago. Thanks for the video
Is this the shortest Forgotten Weapons video ever?
Good video Ian
Great video
Always a history lesson and never disappointed with the lesson.
Interestingly, this type if action is still heavily used in industrial machines as a knee-joint.
Maybe this use inspired the first smashingly successful repeating firearm action, the volcanic-Henry. Still used and manufactured 150 years later.
Do some more of these videos!!!!
I love a good bit of Toggle Action.
Well I hope your Toggle doesn't brake under pressure and it's not affected by Blowback!
I was warned that this sort of activity could make you go blind... .
My great grandfather's old pump action 22 Winchester opens up on top, is that another version of a toggle action? It was made in 1914 and is a family heirloom. Still a tack driver too.
For whatever reason, the Victorians loved toggles, and used them in all kinds of mechanisms where they needed force amplification--especially where it was desired to have the mechanical advantage change through the course of the stroke. Toggles were used to drive the platens of printing presses, for lever-action rifles, of course, and for many clamps, closures and clips (some of which designs are still in use). I think they were popular because, while they required some precision in machining, it is only the location of a few holes that needs to be really accurate. That's easier to accomplish with 19th century machine tools than it is to carve precision cam profiles.
Seems like toggles have largely disappeared in modern engineering. Screws, cams, or even hydraulic and electrical solutions can easily be made with modern technology, and I suspect they can be more resistant to the wear issues that cause toggle mechanisms to go out of adjustment.
Another great video.
You should have made mention of the Winchester Models 1866, 1873 and 1876, which while manually operated also operate using a toggle action.
Toggle action is a very interesting concept.
...and, of course, the Henry rifle was one of the first firearms to incorporate the toggle levers.
Yes thanks! I never really gave toggle action much thought. But the simplicity plus it's place in firearms history is pretty cool
Thanks again
Patron Bill
Haha 😄
Outstanding
Glad you see you didn't try to shoehorn this into 60 seconds.
i quite liked the simplicity and intrinsic strength of the toggle lock.
spent some time wondering if it could use a 270 degree recoil like that weird clockwork rifle
The other big problem with toggle systems is that when locked they load pins that must rotate in shear, and thus wear them out more quickly. For example what made the Winchester-style lever actions capable of handling more energy was Browning adding locks other than the lever parts. Mark Novak did a piece on this but looks like it has since been removed after his content was deleted from the. C&Rsenel channel :(
toggle-actions: the self-loading derivative of the henry toggle-locked lever-actions
Hello, Ian! Can you recommend some books or videos to understand the physics and chemics behind firearms? I would like to fully understand the science applied to weapons, specially fierarms.
Thank you very much, for such a specialized channel in firearms. I have learned A LOT with "Forgotten Weapons"
Especially for chemistry, I can recommend something I found from the US Army Materials Command, google "amcp 706 105". If somebody has more info on the physics, I would appreciate it!
Would love a breakdown of roller delayed mechanisms
ruclips.net/video/sd8FrUe8fMM/видео.html
Are the linkages on the luger perfectly in line or are they slightly over center in the down position? I've been working on rebuilding a set of aircraft landing gear lately and there are lots of joints that go over center to lock and I've been daydreaming of lugers most of the time 🤣🤣🤣
@@808bigisland thank you, I'm an f-16 crewchief
@@808bigisland no nothing crazy like that, just a periodic rebuild
@@808bigisland as far as I know, it hasn't changed since 1979...the jets I work on are from 86-87
MORE OF THESE
I simply think of all delayed blowback guns as such as rollers; radial and knee joint as degresive springs. But each mecanism giving them the opportunity to be slugtly altered from almost a linear speing to very varying in force from extended to compressed. Each of them tuned to the preassure curve for echa cartridge.
Though that is their limitation. They are hard to tune sins the sitt gap where they are ok are so limited. Thus a limited amo choise.
I wish they still made toggle actions can you imagine hunting with a sporting style pedersen rifle built by like Remington or something in a really nice cartridge like 243 Winchester
Why though? What material benefit does a toggle lock action have that other systems don't or do with mediocrity?
@@axelpatrickb.pingol3228 the Taurus judge still sells doesn't it? How about anything keltec makes? Also the comments was just meant to be for discussion of what ifs I'm not stupid enough to think someone is going to build a modern toggle action
"Built by Remington" hell naw, I won't imagine it.
If remington could not make a decent stryker fired handgun, imagine a toggle action one
@@axelpatrickb.pingol3228 it looks cool?
@@rrphantom8194 fair enough I was more using it to illustrate a toggle action made by a sporting company
Toggle action is definitely my favourite.
Ok that really cleared things up for me. I Would love more of these! Short and sweet! Also does toggle action effect the odds of a round failing to chamber? From the slow mo footage it looks like a really precise process of loading the next round from the magazine to the chamber and seems like something that could fail pretty often. What do I know though I just an a gun fan from afar who doesnt own any sadly.
I’m by no means an expert, but I would think that the reliability of a toggle action would have more to do with the execution of the feeding system than the locking mechanism. After all, if it was unreliable, they wouldn’t have had been so widely adopted. Also, the Maxim and Vickers had a reputation for extreme reliability.
no more so than any other self loading system baring a few odd ones, the action of a self loading firearm can be broken down into a couple of parts, the feed system, the locking system, and the firing system, and for the most part every category of those systems works with each other, like say a striker fired belt fed roller delayed gun, or a hammer fired magazine fed short recoil rifle
the paterson rifle did have a problem with extraction, being a toggle delayed rifle, its cases needed to be specially coated in a wax lubricant to properly extract due to the higher pressures experienced
Almost any autoloader looks very weird in very slo-mo. In a 1911 the cartridge bounces all over the place before it finds its way into the chamber.
@@dbmail545 thanks everyone for the response
I have a Luger and all of the feeding/ejection issues I've ever had were from loads that weren't powerful enough to properly operate the action.
If you shoot factory 115gn rounds, it will stovepipe once (possibly more) every magazine. 124gn factory loads will stovepipe once every 2-4 magazines. If I handload 124gn rounds according to the scary red numbers (max loads), it cycles fine every time. I'd assume factory 147gn rounds would probably work fine.
More of the mechanical principles of firearms; love it. Now I still want gun Jesus to explain to me how the rotating barrel lock functions on the B&T MP9 sub machine gun works....please educate me.
I thought you guys were gonna sneak in the Luger rifle. I wish I could get some footage of it working
I'm surprised that you didn't mention the Henry/ Winchester toggle along with the Luger, Maxim, Patterson....
Winchester 73 is a example of a manual toggle lock system.
Anyone knows what was the sub machine gun shown right after the explanation of the luger?
at 1:20?
I'm pretty certain that's a swiss MP41/44.
Designed by Adolf Furrer at the Eidgenössische Waffenfabrik Bern in the early 1940s.
Ty
The Winchester 1873 used a "toggle action" of sorts, where it was broken by a lever under the stock.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Winchester_73_open.JPG
Let's look at the BAR reverse toggle bolt. Did it lessen recoil? Did it reduce the RPM timing to a reasonable rate?
juuust when i was thinking of 3D printing a model Luger
this does give the weapon quite a mech-punk (metal-punk?) vibe though... seeing all those moving parts...
Can You make a Video about the polish wz.35 anti Tank rifle it was the first at rifle Used in ww2
Until this video I hadn't heard of toggle action.
What we need now is a whole line of modern Toggle Action guns in a variety of calibers. Just for fun that is, and just because we can. Think Luger action aesthetics but scaled up to 7.62mm x 51mm, or even a PCC in 7.62mm Tokarev or 7.62mm Mauser.
Sounds expensive.
@@donovanchilton5817 Expensive, unnecessary, and redundant in the modern world. But, I'm of the mindset that weirder is cooler. Thus, I would really want one.
Could you do some videos that go into detail about other common terms that you use. Like “the action”, “closed bolt”, “delayed blowback”, “roller delayed”, etc, etc.
ruclips.net/p/PL9e3UCcU00TRIeypXC53S8r81DZRvoXmu
@@ForgottenWeapons Well now I just feel embarrassed for having missed all of this for so long.
Borchardt c93: You just leave me…
“A sure fire way” I saw what you did there
Are the sections of the toggle arranged in a slightly over centre manner so that the force directly rearward ensures it stays locked until it hits the cam, or they actually straight and very precisely so?
Question!
Why is a toggle-lock more susceptible to ingress of dirt and fouling than other types of moving bolts? I understand that in practice, the Luger and many other toggle-locks have the bolt fully or partially exposed, but it seems to me that a toggle-lock could be fully enclosed similar to a modern rotating-bolt self-loading action?
Would it not be possible to make a toggle-lock action where the bolt has a significantly shorter travel than a rotating bolt, essentially 'collapsing' on itself?
@@808bigisland I'm thinking in terms of military arms, since that's my interest. Protection against fouling, in particular dust but really any sort, is much more important for military weapons than for personal carry guns.
I wish the toggle action stuck around for more designs.