Although I think that her beliefs and views are definitely valid, if she is not theistic in any way, shape, or form, then she should not be in a Church that is. There's Quakers, Unitarian Universalists, hell, she could even form her own community with the following she has. It is one thing to attend a Christian Church and not be theistic, it is an entirely different thing to run it.
This is why I, as a Gen Z Christian Canadian, will not attend the United Church. I did attend one time and I was the youngest person there. I think the baby boomer generation and perhaps Gen X think that they are appealing to the younger masses by becoming more “inclusive” and distorting the Gospel along the way but nope. Us young Christians want to follow Jesus not for popularity but because we love Him.
Logic does not seem to be her strong point. Her church is not trying to get rid of her, she left it first.Trying to "lead" her church away from what it is and towards what it stands against, is an act intended to destroy it. The church would be within its right to protect itself. She cannot cry foul for that!
Astounding. She says that people "are the only way that goodness is going to come into this world. We define what's good. We are the creators of good." Yet on the heals of that she admits that people can't promise goodness. Yet, the Bible consistently sets forth a God who promises goodness, as the only source of such a promise. She says , "God as the source of goodness, as the way that goodness comes into the world and as the promise that everything is going to be good in the end...that god doesn't exist any more." I would like to know when that objectively ended. Nothing in the Bible has changed, so the change must only exist in the minds and the agreement of people who choose to make their own reality that flies in the face of an objective reality set against them. She also seems to be holding her church hostage over this controversy. On the one hand, she says that the church makes it taboo to talk about doubts of god. She says, "You can't talk about this stuff because you will threaten people's worldviews. Why do we have to pretend that they can't deal with a difficult conversation?" Yet she then seems to blame the elders for creating a divisive incident by reviewing her. It's not OK to question disbelief of god, but to question her belief in no god is to threaten the very church itself. She is blind to her own double standard. She says, "I don't think anyone is going to win in this situation... Four people have set this denomination on a path from which I don't think it can recover. There's no graceful exit from this." She states that her disbelief in god is what she wanted to engage the church in all along, and then punishes the leadership for doing just that: "The conversation which I have wanted to have and which has been stimulated by my presence in the church... that conversation will continue to go on but I don't think it will be a healing conversation anymore. I think it's going to be a divisive conversation. And I don't think it needed to be that." She's not going to stop talking about the idea that god doesn't exist, because, "these people, many of whom wouldn't be in this space if we weren't talking and doing things the way we that we do them. They would have little interest in it. ...these people will not feel like members of the church" if she is asked to leave. The twisting of meangings and the entitlement to rebel against authority with no accountability is rampant in her words. Why would a publicly vocal atheist want to be in a position of leadership over a thing called a "church" anyway? Just go create your own club or meetup group and stop associated hostility towards god with god's own house. That church must be a scary place. Absolutely astounding.
It was humans who wrote the Bible though. Ultimately is is Humans who define what is good by creating a concept of "God". We set standards of moral goodness and we often "miss the mark" (the literal meaning of sin), but the point is to keep aiming towards goodness.
Actually I think she’s trying to call on the rest of the educated theologians to respond to this dangerous anti-scientific fundamentalism which has been sweeping the church recently.
Hello. I am a vegan who loves steak. Hello. I am an Apple user who loves Samsung. Hello. I am in LGBTQ community who also attends Westboro Baptist Church.
I was happy to hear this morning on the news that a committee of the United Church has recommended that Ms. Vosper not continue as a minister in the United Church. Let her do something else if she is not a Christian.
@@jonathanparks301 For any that believe in God within the UCC, they are doing what the communists predicted, "When it comes time to hang the capitalists, they will sell us the rope." Or "when it comes time to discredit believers, the believers will put the apologists in the pulpit".
Wow so her looks are somehow reflective of her beliefs? If we take that reasoning to christians who are disfigured it suddenly doesn't sound like such a nice thing to say about someone who happens to disagree with your beliefs.
@@jonathanparks301 Might you need your own awakening from nonsense? Let's see if you can glean anything from these atheist? Michael Ruse, a noted philosopher of science, explains, "The position of the modern evolutionist is that morality is a biological adaptation, no less than our hands and feet and teeth. Considered as a rationally justifiable set of claims about an objective something, ethics is illusory. I appreciate that when someone says, 'love thy neighbor as thyself,' they think they are referring above and beyond themselves. Nevertheless, such reference is truly without foundation. Morality is just an aid to survival and reproduction and any deeper meaning is illusory." A theist’s moral epistemology need not differ broadly from the humanist’s own moral epistemology. Epistemological objections are thus red herrings which need not detain us. I’m contending that theism is necessary that there might be moral goods and duties, not that we might discern the moral goods and duties that there are. As Kurtz puts it, “The central question about moral and ethical principles concerns their ontological foundation (if they really exist). If they are neither derived from God nor anchored in some transcendent ground, are they purely ephemeral?” William Lane Craig The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference. Richard Dawkins We have not been able to show that reason requires the moral point of view, or that all really rational persons, unhoodwinked by myth or ideology, need not be individual egoists or classical amoralists. Reason doesn’t decide here. The picture I have painted for you is not a pleasant one. Reflection on it depresses me…. Pure practical reason, even with a good knowledge of fact, will not take you to morality. Kai Nielsen
I suggest that Gretta should now be a member of The Clergy Project, which is based on ministers that left the clergy to became Atheists. Gretta is no longer a minister. One can't BE a preacher in a church, and at the same time be an Atheist.
Does she administer any Sacraments of her church? How can she if she does not believe? I would never take any sacrament from an atheist priest. There is no meaning in it when the celebrant does not believe.
Yeah, don’t waste time in her building. The pub seems a better choice. I guess she could stay in that church building for the sentimental elderly who really don’t believe but by sheer habit feel good going every Sunday.
If you stick with the word of God,instead of coming up with your own ideas,you will understand the Truth and you won't be confused.This is how occults, get started. Man's wisdom is not God's wisdom.Read the Bible and clear your mine,the answers are there.God wants everyone to be saved,you have a choice.Choose wisely.
Which God, the one who tells you to stone your kids if they disobey you? You're actually discouraging people from coming up with their own ideas? Seriously?
The true God would never stone children.Thats not truth.Man's wisdom is dangerous. The world is a worse place because mans come up with their own. Truly, read the Bible and then see if it doesn't make sense, then talk to me. Don't take my word for it, find the real truth. I hope you do. Take care.
I'm an agnostic and when I came to that position I left my church. Ms. Vosper should do the same and join the Unitarians if she still wants to be in a religious institution. It's a pity that like most if not all atheists we hear from in the media she has an anthropomorphic conception of God to beat a stick with.
The problem is MOST IF NOT ALL THEISTS have a antropomorphic conception of God: the "will" of God...the "love" of God...the "hand" of God...God is "above" us "watching" us .... Almost nobody understand that sofisticated theological concept of God such as Ground of Being...The Being in itself or something like that. Whoever heard these concepts on a church sermon would leave it forever!
A clergy who no longer believe?? Why don't they, and she, just call themselves humanists and leave the "Church"..instead of shoving her self down peoples throats as a matter of principle. Anyway..the real issue is she was never a believer in the first place...she was never born again by the spirit of God.
@@jonathanparks301 You say, *"clearly members of the congregation want her there"* Does it matter to you if your statement is true? What if it were true that after she 'came out' and was clear about her beliefs, clearly members of the congregation didn't want her there? From Wikipedia, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretta_Vosper "regular attendance declined from 150 to 40, especially after the Lord's Prayer was removed from the liturgy in 2003"
@@jonathanparks301 Dear Johnny, I responded to many of your posts to the comments on this video. *"verbal diarrhea"* that's funny. I wonder if your response here was meant to be to some other post of mine to you. If this is where you actually intended for this comment to be placed, I am puzzled. I was merely challenging your assertion that, *"clearly members of the congregation want her there"* . In fact-checking your claim, I came across a statement that is a considerable challenge to your claim. Namely that over 60% of her congregation left. Can you not handle the challenge. If you were truly behind Gretta, who is supposedly all about following the evidence where it leads, you'd welcome being corrected. Please check that this is where you meant the comment to be placed. Best regards, Sam
@@jonathanparks301 Dear Johnny, I had to respond further to your comment. You can say you've struck a nerve if you like. I guess it is what turns your crank to think so. What you have struck is my funny bone. Actually, that metaphor is going to work better than I originally thought. Hitting your funny bone isn't really fun, but it is an odd or funny feeling. What you've done is make me laugh at you, but on second thought it makes me sad that you are so blind. Or, at least it appears to me that you are just one of the progressive woke posers, always virtue signaling about your tolerance. And yet if you were really woke you'd at least have the ability to examine how you have treated my comment. You resort to opprobrium, to deal with someone who merely pointed out that what you were claiming did not stand up to a bit of scrutiny. How does that live up to your clamor for tolerance? For all you should know, I could be Gretta herself, challenging you on your claim. In fact, I hope that Gretta would be honest enough to challenge you on your claim and point out that indeed most of the members of the church left after she 'came out'. Now you can continue to come out swinging and deny your intolerance or 'special plead' that your intolerance was required, but any clash with someone whose view you disagree you charge with intolerance. You do realize I hope that tolerance is reserved for people that we disagree with. You don't tolerate people with whom you agree. Anyway, not need to despair. You can always admit that you were wrong to accuse me of verbal diarrhea and ask for forgiveness. Isn't that something that a humanist ask for and hope to receive? Or I guess you could point to something that you consider verbal diarrhea and let me address it. I will try as well to own my error. My intentions are noble. I wish for you to really become 'woke'. Again very best regards, Sam
The world and the devil has “reached the church”. Rather than the church reaching the world with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I will pray for this poor lady.
"I'll be sad if I'm declared unfit to be a preacher of God just because I don't believe in God or affirm any of the doctrines of the Church I am charged with ministering" wow, that's some funky logic. It's like being confused why you can't be a vegan if you eat steak.
As she is not alone in this and the fact that they've accepted many heretical practices, I think the whole United movement needs to go back to the Word to review and articulate biblical practices verse social norms.
@@teelee7048 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. JHON 3.16
@@robmckay5421 what gods according to christian faith it is father, son and holy spirit together or individually they are called god depending on the context but yes is the father revealed as the son that is why jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the father
Presuppositionalism is an actual proof the Christian God exists, a deductively valid & sound argument. There are 100+ logically valid & sound inductive arguments for theism over atheism, with only logical fallacies for the other way around. How much evidentiary support do people need for crying out loud?
We need pastors like her, honest and sincere not hypocritical like Jimmy swagger or Ted Haggard ...she is a XXI Century pastor..things evolve dude..!!!the churches of the future Will be like that..noone believes in that fairy tale nowadays
If we are the source of good, then we are in trouble......wait we are in trouble. She needs to start her own church and call it what she wants. I doubt she is right about the number of atheist pastors in here tradition. Yet she is also brave and I do respect her.
There are many ways to prove God exists. One of them is to contemplate Rabbi Mizrachi’s RUclips video entitled, “Torah and Science.” Another way is to go for a walk and open your eyes.
I'm no atheist but I don't fallow no religion either. I'm just one with God, and that suits me just fine. This I find is sad, and just an excuse to create a popular new religion for a new group of sheeple for the 21st century.
What a joke. She's the leader of a church, which is meant to draw people closer to God, but she does not believe in the ultimate goal of the church. So progressive like most modern things, it defies all reason.
Almost sounds like base Judaism without the civil codes and procedures section. Post-Jesus Judaism. Diet-Jew. Hehe. No specific reference to afterlife. Focus on works during life. Living your life spiritually today, not deferred to some hereafter... Just believing there may be a spiritual dimension to life without codifying it / making intellectually indefensible assumptions. Wouldn't that be nice? Anyway, I like her conversational style.
Why because she's exposing something that's been there all along in the broader church as a whole.. no i hope she stays exactly where she is. She's doing the "Lords Work" lol
True atheism is when people view their subjective reality as if it IS objective reality. That's why she her logic is so flawed, yet she doesn't recognize it. She clearly left the church and is now attempting to promote what it's fighting against from within, yet she's only aware of her own subjective psychological state (as if it's objectively real) so she doesn't get it. She thinks her opinion / worldview is factually correct, and she isn't even aware apparently that there's the possibility she could be incorrect and they could actually be objectively correct.
@@tangerinesarebetterthanora7060 What does it even mean to say someone is "trying to be philosophical?" Everyone is always operating through a philosophical worldview at all times, whenever they speak intelligibly.
@@lightbeforethetunnel it's because you aren't applying the same level of scrutiny to your own beliefs. You don't have to look any further than the gospels themselves to find that the accounts of Jesus were written from a particular perspective since the apostles accounts contradict each other.
@tangerinesarebetterthanora7060 Anyone who has worked in the court system knows that it is expected, and realistic, for 4 different witnesses of the same event to describe what they witnessed from different perspectives. Claiming that they contradict each other is a common fallacious argument that atheists use, but when they actually try justifying that assertion, they quickly find they can't actually do it... and end up using sophistry to try to create the illusion they have due to dogmatism.
I just realized that you lost your Faith there, in WestHill where i used to live, because i was thinking about the state of the country and areas and that occurred to me.
this is the logical evolution that I missed while I was a teenager under the Roman Catholic school/Church, my separation from the church happened because of its failure to evolve with my empathy towards all humanity. Its extremely archaic to tell Children, those who don't get baptised will go to hell, will not be welcome at the gates of Heaven, I knew pretty quickly this God didn't exist
Nah, you can be ordained and get a doctorate from the Universal Life Church. They take all comers regardless of their beliefs. See: www.themonastery.org/
Seriously, the one of two days that Christians can celebrate their faith and this garbage gets put on TV at Canadian tax payers expense. That's the best they could do? For the love of God....
The "church" is the body of believers of the Lord Jesus Christ... what she describes as church is a community center... not the true Church of Our Lord. But tge blind will never see.
@@SaleSarajlija atheism is a non-belief. So-called "atheists" actually have a belief, most of the times it's humanism. So when I say someone is not an atheist, it's because someone can't identify as a non-thing. You can't even debate atheism because there's nothing to debate. You can acknowledge that they don't believe in a deity, but you can't debate their ethics until you figure out what they are and from where they come.
Para los que entiendan castellano. Salgan de esta iglesia, esta mujer es una farsante, por supuesto que Dios existe, por supuesto que Jesús es Dios, no pierdan la salvación de sus almas, huyan de allí y vuélvanse a Dios, al Dios verdadero que nos espera con los brazos abiertos para llevarnos con El al Cielo, esto es apostasía
Your statement is a complete lie. Have you even been to a church? Go to a Baptist, Pentecostal, Methodist or Greek Orthodox and you'll see ministers preaching from the Bible. Every minister has a twinge if doubt from time to time that's only human. But being an outright atheist in a church leadership role? This is a first.
In 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Paul makes it clear that the day of the Lord, a time of worldwide judgment (Isaiah 13:6; Obadiah 1:15), will not transpire until two things happen. First, the falling away, or great apostasy, must occur.
And this is why you don't go to the United Church. Keep this up, lady, and there won't be a United Church before long. Same goes with the Anglican Church of Canada
Wow! Believe what you want. Everyone doesn't have to agree with you. If they don't like you, why force them to let you preach at them about God? Sounds hyper-religious to me. Ego. Just start your own Social Community Center. You're no better than evangelical fundamentalists. High-minded. The audacity... This has nothing to do with atheism nor theism. Messiah complex. (Why would they continue paying you money just for you to tell them that you do not share their values???)
Considering all the good that can come out of the cooperative efforts of a church congregation, I think it would be great if atheists had a similar gathering place.
This story is about an actual church, yes. I was just thinking: where's the meeting place of similar purpose for atheists? Instead of a sermon, perhaps a weekly TEDtalk-like presentation on a variety of thought provoking subjects. Plus members could work together on ways of helping our communities.
+TheRandomView just watch a Ted talk and volunteer on your own time lol. The whole thing about atheism is not needing something like that, least for me.
I appreciate your view, and you're right: I can just watch a Ted Talk and continue to volunteer on my own. I was just thinking that a group of people can often do more to help the community than just one person. Plus there is benefit in people gathering together.
Atheism is a religion according to the Supreme Court. There are Atheist churches, Interestingly enough. Atheists follow all the same patterns and behaviors of a religion. They have High Priests like Matt Dillahunty, and everything. They're just a religion that doesn't know they're a religion (the most likely to be deceived by what they're influenced by because they conflate their beliefs with facts)
She might wanna read some theology. Then become a philosophy professor. She's not too bright.... or at least not well read. Did she study theology? Nope.
I suggest that Gretta should now be a member of The Clergy Project, which is based on ministers that left the clergy to became Atheists. Gretta is no longer a minister. One can't BE a preacher in a church, and at the same time be an Atheist.
![Digital Circus Episode 4 [TRAILER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/abZtsmMUbJo/mqdefault.jpg)
The real question is "Why does she stay ministering?"
Because of the social status, money, etc.
LARPing and to force herself and her mental illness onto everyone.
Although I think that her beliefs and views are definitely valid, if she is not theistic in any way, shape, or form, then she should not be in a Church that is. There's Quakers, Unitarian Universalists, hell, she could even form her own community with the following she has. It is one thing to attend a Christian Church and not be theistic, it is an entirely different thing to run it.
yes unitarian universalists would be good for her
The first comment with any kind of sense
This is why I, as a Gen Z Christian Canadian, will not attend the United Church. I did attend one time and I was the youngest person there. I think the baby boomer generation and perhaps Gen X think that they are appealing to the younger masses by becoming more “inclusive” and distorting the Gospel along the way but nope. Us young Christians want to follow Jesus not for popularity but because we love Him.
Amen
Logic does not seem to be her strong point. Her church is not trying to get rid of her, she left it first.Trying to "lead" her church away from what it is and towards what it stands against, is an act intended to destroy it. The church would be within its right to protect itself. She cannot cry foul for that!
Did you listen to her interview or just heard what you wanted to hear?
Her church is no longer hallowed ground. It's holiness has been decommissioned. It's cemetery an atheist one!
They are preaching Satan's bible but we go to hell, for not blazing ahead with it! Aviation is anti gravity to these people here! They are Prometheus!
Astounding. She says that people "are the only way that goodness is going to come into this world. We define what's good. We are the creators of good." Yet on the heals of that she admits that people can't promise goodness. Yet, the Bible consistently sets forth a God who promises goodness, as the only source of such a promise. She says , "God as the source of goodness, as the way that goodness comes into the world and as the promise that everything is going to be good in the end...that god doesn't exist any more." I would like to know when that objectively ended. Nothing in the Bible has changed, so the change must only exist in the minds and the agreement of people who choose to make their own reality that flies in the face of an objective reality set against them. She also seems to be holding her church hostage over this controversy. On the one hand, she says that the church makes it taboo to talk about doubts of god. She says, "You can't talk about this stuff because you will threaten people's worldviews. Why do we have to pretend that they can't deal with a difficult conversation?" Yet she then seems to blame the elders for creating a divisive incident by reviewing her. It's not OK to question disbelief of god, but to question her belief in no god is to threaten the very church itself. She is blind to her own double standard. She says, "I don't think anyone is going to win in this situation... Four people have set this denomination on a path from which I don't think it can recover. There's no graceful exit from this." She states that her disbelief in god is what she wanted to engage the church in all along, and then punishes the leadership for doing just that: "The conversation which I have wanted to have and which has been stimulated by my presence in the church... that conversation will continue to go on but I don't think it will be a healing conversation anymore. I think it's going to be a divisive conversation. And I don't think it needed to be that." She's not going to stop talking about the idea that god doesn't exist, because, "these people, many of whom wouldn't be in this space if we weren't talking and doing things the way we that we do them. They would have little interest in it. ...these people will not feel like members of the church" if she is asked to leave. The twisting of meangings and the entitlement to rebel against authority with no accountability is rampant in her words. Why would a publicly vocal atheist want to be in a position of leadership over a thing called a "church" anyway? Just go create your own club or meetup group and stop associated hostility towards god with god's own house. That church must be a scary place. Absolutely astounding.
It was humans who wrote the Bible though. Ultimately is is Humans who define what is good by creating a concept of "God". We set standards of moral goodness and we often "miss the mark" (the literal meaning of sin), but the point is to keep aiming towards goodness.
Unfortunately, Ms. Vosper is trying to square a circle here and is lacking courage simply to leave and find a better suited place for herself.
Actually I think she’s trying to call on the rest of the educated theologians to respond to this dangerous anti-scientific fundamentalism which has been sweeping the church recently.
Greta I understand your battle is mine also , I’m a vegan and don’t believe in eating animals but I ate them everyday
That's a false equivalency
@@mysticheathen3455 Being a vegan but working in a slaughterhouse.
@@lionofjudahlambofgod9132 false equivalency
Hello. I am a vegan who loves steak.
Hello. I am an Apple user who loves Samsung.
Hello. I am in LGBTQ community who also attends Westboro Baptist Church.
I was happy to hear this morning on the news that a committee of the United Church has recommended that Ms. Vosper not continue as a minister in the United Church. Let her do something else if she is not a Christian.
They recently have reverted that decision.
The committee of the United Church are damned alongside her. SO not sorry to be blunt about this.
She's doing exactly what needs to be done and said.
@@jonathanparks301
For any that believe in God within the UCC, they are doing what the communists predicted, "When it comes time to hang the capitalists, they will sell us the rope." Or "when it comes time to discredit believers, the believers will put the apologists in the pulpit".
Huh? Why not just start a community association?
exactly.
Her eyes are as dark as her soul.
Do atheist have dark souls or just hypocrites.
Wow so her looks are somehow reflective of her beliefs? If we take that reasoning to christians who are disfigured it suddenly doesn't sound like such a nice thing to say about someone who happens to disagree with your beliefs.
It's called a figure of speech.
"we are the creators of good".........really? wow, that says it all about this lady.
Yeah she has had an awakening out of the darkages!
@@jonathanparks301
Might you need your own awakening from nonsense?
Let's see if you can glean anything from these atheist?
Michael Ruse, a noted philosopher of science, explains, "The position of the modern evolutionist is that morality is a biological adaptation, no less than our hands and feet and teeth. Considered as a rationally justifiable set of claims about an objective something, ethics is illusory. I appreciate that when someone says, 'love thy neighbor as thyself,' they think they are referring above and beyond themselves. Nevertheless, such reference is truly without foundation. Morality is just an aid to survival and reproduction and any deeper meaning is illusory."
A theist’s moral epistemology need not differ broadly from the humanist’s own moral epistemology. Epistemological objections are thus red herrings which need not detain us. I’m contending that theism is necessary that there might be moral goods and duties, not that we might discern the moral goods and duties that there are. As Kurtz puts it, “The central question about moral and ethical principles concerns their ontological foundation (if they really exist). If they are neither derived from God nor anchored in some transcendent ground, are they purely ephemeral?”
William Lane Craig
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
Richard Dawkins
We have not been able to show that reason requires the moral point of view, or that all really rational persons, unhoodwinked by myth or ideology, need not be individual egoists or classical amoralists. Reason doesn’t decide here. The picture I have painted for you is not a pleasant one. Reflection on it depresses me…. Pure practical reason, even with a good knowledge of fact, will not take you to morality.
Kai Nielsen
God created the universe, not scientists.
Why should I support this group and spend any time in that building. I’ll just go out to the pub.
Why not become a Unitarian?
I suggest that Gretta should now be a member of The Clergy Project, which is based on ministers that left the clergy to became Atheists. Gretta is no longer a minister. One can't BE a preacher in a church, and at the same time be an Atheist.
Does she administer any Sacraments of her church? How can she if she does not believe? I would never take any sacrament from an atheist priest. There is no meaning in it when the celebrant does not believe.
There is no meaning in it. Stop there
Yeah, don’t waste time in her building. The pub seems a better choice. I guess she could stay in that church building for the sentimental elderly who really don’t believe but by sheer habit feel good going every Sunday.
More than her being an atheist minister, what is more bizarre to me is that she is hard to follow. Terrible speaker. How did she even get this job?
Her “church” seems to strive to be subversive.
If you stick with the word of God,instead of coming up with your own ideas,you will understand the Truth and you won't be confused.This is how occults, get started.
Man's wisdom is not God's wisdom.Read the Bible and clear your mine,the answers are there.God wants everyone to be saved,you have a choice.Choose wisely.
Which God, the one who tells you to stone your kids if they disobey you? You're actually discouraging people from coming up with their own ideas? Seriously?
The true God would never stone children.Thats not truth.Man's wisdom is dangerous. The world is a worse place because mans come up with their own. Truly, read the Bible and then see if it doesn't make sense, then talk to me. Don't take my word for it, find the real truth. I hope you do. Take care.
+CarlaJoy we shall agree to disagree, you take care also,
+Rsp b All the best to you.
Exactly
I'm an agnostic and when I came to that position I left my church. Ms. Vosper should do the same and join the Unitarians if she still wants to be in a religious institution. It's a pity that like most if not all atheists we hear from in the media she has an anthropomorphic conception of God to beat a stick with.
I'm a Christian. Thank you for making me look up the word, anthropomorphic.
The problem is MOST IF NOT ALL THEISTS have a antropomorphic conception of God: the "will" of God...the "love" of God...the "hand" of God...God is "above" us "watching" us .... Almost nobody understand that sofisticated theological concept of God such as Ground of Being...The Being in itself or something like that. Whoever heard these concepts on a church sermon would leave it forever!
@@DiSaValCrescerTranscender big cringe on that one
EVERY KNEE AND EVERY TONGUE CONFESS that JESUS CHRIST is LORD! You WILL bow!
A clergy who no longer believe?? Why don't they, and she, just call themselves humanists and leave the "Church"..instead of shoving her self down peoples throats as a matter of principle. Anyway..the real issue is she was never a believer in the first place...she was never born again by the spirit of God.
Ohh christian bigots... clearly members of the congregation want her there.. she's clearly exposing the church as it really is..
@@jonathanparks301
You say, *"clearly members of the congregation want her there"*
Does it matter to you if your statement is true? What if it were true that after she 'came out' and was clear about her beliefs, clearly members of the congregation didn't want her there?
From Wikipedia, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretta_Vosper
"regular attendance declined from 150 to 40, especially after the Lord's Prayer was removed from the liturgy in 2003"
@@samdg1234 Clearly I struck a nerve because you puked up all this verbal diarrhea... You are the one who needs an awakening here...
@@jonathanparks301
Dear Johnny,
I responded to many of your posts to the comments on this video.
*"verbal diarrhea"* that's funny. I wonder if your response here was meant to be to some other post of mine to you.
If this is where you actually intended for this comment to be placed, I am puzzled.
I was merely challenging your assertion that, *"clearly members of the congregation want her there"* . In fact-checking your claim, I came across a statement that is a considerable challenge to your claim. Namely that over 60% of her congregation left.
Can you not handle the challenge. If you were truly behind Gretta, who is supposedly all about following the evidence where it leads, you'd welcome being corrected.
Please check that this is where you meant the comment to be placed.
Best regards,
Sam
@@jonathanparks301
Dear Johnny,
I had to respond further to your comment.
You can say you've struck a nerve if you like. I guess it is what turns your crank to think so. What you have struck is my funny bone. Actually, that metaphor is going to work better than I originally thought. Hitting your funny bone isn't really fun, but it is an odd or funny feeling. What you've done is make me laugh at you, but on second thought it makes me sad that you are so blind.
Or, at least it appears to me that you are just one of the progressive woke posers, always virtue signaling about your tolerance. And yet if you were really woke you'd at least have the ability to examine how you have treated my comment. You resort to opprobrium, to deal with someone who merely pointed out that what you were claiming did not stand up to a bit of scrutiny. How does that live up to your clamor for tolerance? For all you should know, I could be Gretta herself, challenging you on your claim. In fact, I hope that Gretta would be honest enough to challenge you on your claim and point out that indeed most of the members of the church left after she 'came out'.
Now you can continue to come out swinging and deny your intolerance or 'special plead' that your intolerance was required, but any clash with someone whose view you disagree you charge with intolerance. You do realize I hope that tolerance is reserved for people that we disagree with. You don't tolerate people with whom you agree.
Anyway, not need to despair. You can always admit that you were wrong to accuse me of verbal diarrhea and ask for forgiveness. Isn't that something that a humanist ask for and hope to receive? Or I guess you could point to something that you consider verbal diarrhea and let me address it. I will try as well to own my error.
My intentions are noble. I wish for you to really become 'woke'.
Again very best regards,
Sam
The world and the devil has “reached the church”. Rather than the church reaching the world with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I will pray for this poor lady.
It is nobody but the Devil telling her to turn her back on God. Let God handle her.
"I'll be sad if I'm declared unfit to be a preacher of God just because I don't believe in God or affirm any of the doctrines of the Church I am charged with ministering" wow, that's some funky logic. It's like being confused why you can't be a vegan if you eat steak.
This lady is delusional. What does she think happened before she showed up. Lol. If she were at least intelligient it would help.
Greta Jesus was committed to you and gave His very life for yours … your words are empty if they don’t include JESUS IS MY LORD
As she is not alone in this and the fact that they've accepted many heretical practices, I think the whole United movement needs to go back to the Word to review and articulate biblical practices verse social norms.
They need to leave that sinking ship and go to actual churches.
We heard her on her visit to our country New Zealand and was totally fascinated with the novelty of Xn atheism.
Problem is Jesus Christ is God! ; )
I think as an Anglican i hold to the divinity of Jesus Christ. But i am NOT sure i can say that he is God. For me in Jesus we see the face of God.
It gave me a good laugh too.
@@teelee7048 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. JHON 3.16
@@robmckay5421 what gods according to christian faith it is father, son and holy spirit together or individually they are called god depending on the context but yes is the father revealed as the son that is why jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the father
This is just insanity.
Presuppositionalism is an actual proof the Christian God exists, a deductively valid & sound argument. There are 100+ logically valid & sound inductive arguments for theism over atheism, with only logical fallacies for the other way around. How much evidentiary support do people need for crying out loud?
Why be a pastor then?! Go start a business or something, lady.
We need pastors like her, honest and sincere not hypocritical like Jimmy swagger or Ted Haggard ...she is a XXI Century pastor..things evolve dude..!!!the churches of the future Will be like that..noone believes in that fairy tale nowadays
@@kalimanbuda6501 No, the Christian church is going to have an amazing revival. Soon.
This women is clearly insane
You’re very rude and nasty... a difference of opinion and you’re name calling
Vosper wants to be a trailblazer leading the United Church into her way of thinking. sigh.
EXACYLY! smh
This woman should be as the fitness people drinking coca cola and donuts...
If we are the source of good, then we are in trouble......wait we are in trouble. She needs to start her own church and call it what she wants. I doubt she is right about the number of atheist pastors in here tradition. Yet she is also brave and I do respect her.
There are many ways to prove God exists. One of them is to contemplate Rabbi Mizrachi’s RUclips video entitled, “Torah and Science.” Another way is to go for a walk and open your eyes.
Lord have mercy ☦️🙏
This woman needs help. An a-theist minister? You could not make it up.
lost me at : ON YOUR TWITTER
hell awaits
😂😂😂
Primitive
With all due respect, this woman is delusional and a lost soul. I hesitate to call her a reprobate because i don't know. Sad.
🙏🙏🙏
A prime candidate for the "shit or get off the pot" award.
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
You're rather gullible.
next up the fish who walks on two legs and breaths air
notice the word "Truth" never comes up................interesting.
That's why they call it Religion.
take no more steps further, if you help her then stop. Hell is also her.
Live by faith.
I'm no atheist but I don't fallow no religion either. I'm just one with God, and that suits me just fine. This I find is sad, and just an excuse to create a popular new religion for a new group of sheeple for the 21st century.
I'm just one with God..........please explain.
What a joke. She's the leader of a church, which is meant to draw people closer to God, but she does not believe in the ultimate goal of the church. So progressive like most modern things, it defies all reason.
Exactly!
Almost sounds like base Judaism without the civil codes and procedures section. Post-Jesus Judaism. Diet-Jew. Hehe. No specific reference to afterlife. Focus on works during life. Living your life spiritually today, not deferred to some hereafter...
Just believing there may be a spiritual dimension to life without codifying it / making intellectually indefensible assumptions. Wouldn't that be nice?
Anyway, I like her conversational style.
+Brian Twardzik No, it sounds like Reconstructionist Judaism, and certain forms of Reform Judaism a la Harold Kushner.
get rid of this person..
Why because she's exposing something that's been there all along in the broader church as a whole.. no i hope she stays exactly where she is. She's doing the "Lords Work" lol
who woulda thunk it... it seems even the church has a PR department lol
There is no God in any false church. God doesn’t dwell in temples made by men, she shouldn’t either.
I pray that God softens her heart to the truth and that she becomes a follower of Christ. She is on the path to damnation.
Which God there is many gods read about the history of the bible. Not the Bible the history
True atheism is when people view their subjective reality as if it IS objective reality. That's why she her logic is so flawed, yet she doesn't recognize it. She clearly left the church and is now attempting to promote what it's fighting against from within, yet she's only aware of her own subjective psychological state (as if it's objectively real) so she doesn't get it. She thinks her opinion / worldview is factually correct, and she isn't even aware apparently that there's the possibility she could be incorrect and they could actually be objectively correct.
This is a meaningless comment that's trying to be philosophical but isn't.
@@tangerinesarebetterthanora7060 What does it even mean to say someone is "trying to be philosophical?" Everyone is always operating through a philosophical worldview at all times, whenever they speak intelligibly.
@@lightbeforethetunnel it's because you aren't applying the same level of scrutiny to your own beliefs. You don't have to look any further than the gospels themselves to find that the accounts of Jesus were written from a particular perspective since the apostles accounts contradict each other.
@tangerinesarebetterthanora7060 Anyone who has worked in the court system knows that it is expected, and realistic, for 4 different witnesses of the same event to describe what they witnessed from different perspectives.
Claiming that they contradict each other is a common fallacious argument that atheists use, but when they actually try justifying that assertion, they quickly find they can't actually do it... and end up using sophistry to try to create the illusion they have due to dogmatism.
@tangerinesarebetterthanora7060 btw can you define what a contradiction actually is?
I just realized that you lost your Faith there, in WestHill where i used to live, because i was thinking about the state of the country and areas and that occurred to me.
Goodluck Gretta hope u'll continue never would I have thought someone with ur new teaching. enough with a phony god!
Sounds like Therese Atikian has all the answers.
this is the logical evolution that I missed while I was a teenager under the Roman Catholic school/Church, my separation from the church happened because of its failure to evolve with my empathy towards all humanity. Its extremely archaic to tell Children, those who don't get baptised will go to hell, will not be welcome at the gates of Heaven, I knew pretty quickly this God didn't exist
Calvin Parsley You're off the deep end there Cal. What else were you fed as a child?
News flash: That's not even what the Catholic Church teaches.
The Catholic Church does not teach that unbaptized babies go to hell.
Like Anton Lavey o my lord what have I done.
We need her in America.
Nah, you can be ordained and get a doctorate from the Universal Life Church. They take all comers regardless of their beliefs. See: www.themonastery.org/
Seriously, the one of two days that Christians can celebrate their faith and this garbage gets put on TV at Canadian tax payers expense. That's the best they could do? For the love of God....
@Cyrus Dabar Yes taxpayers foot the bill for CBC.
The sin of the ancient rebellion reveals its self!
The "church" is the body of believers of the Lord Jesus Christ... what she describes as church is a community center... not the true Church of Our Lord. But tge blind will never see.
She isn't an atheist... she's a humanist. Atheist is a non-belief that there are no gods. Humanists believe man is god.
But she calls herself atheist. She is very open and clear about that, as shocking and as manipulative as she is.
@@SaleSarajlija atheism is a non-belief. So-called "atheists" actually have a belief, most of the times it's humanism. So when I say someone is not an atheist, it's because someone can't identify as a non-thing. You can't even debate atheism because there's nothing to debate. You can acknowledge that they don't believe in a deity, but you can't debate their ethics until you figure out what they are and from where they come.
Para los que entiendan castellano. Salgan de esta iglesia, esta mujer es una farsante, por supuesto que Dios existe, por supuesto que Jesús es Dios, no pierdan la salvación de sus almas, huyan de allí y vuélvanse a Dios, al Dios verdadero que nos espera con los brazos abiertos para llevarnos con El al Cielo, esto es apostasía
Wow. What a well spoken and inspiring person.
A surprising number of clergy from _every_ faith are atheists. It's hard to believe in magic when you know how the sausage is made.
Bible has great scientific accuracy. See my channel.
Your statement is a complete lie. Have you even been to a church? Go to a Baptist, Pentecostal, Methodist or Greek Orthodox and you'll see ministers preaching from the Bible. Every minister has a twinge if doubt from time to time that's only human. But being an outright atheist in a church leadership role? This is a first.
@Osiris Malkovich, I think your sausage knowledge will be burnt to a crisp in the lake of fire one day.
In 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Paul makes it clear that the day of the Lord, a time of worldwide judgment (Isaiah 13:6; Obadiah 1:15), will not transpire until two things happen. First, the falling away, or great apostasy, must occur.
Define minister.
Define church minister.
What is the charter of THAT church?
Is she doing the job they expect her to do?
And this is why you don't go to the United Church. Keep this up, lady, and there won't be a United Church before long. Same goes with the Anglican Church of Canada
This is awesome.
They pay her to lie to them
Wow! Believe what you want. Everyone doesn't have to agree with you. If they don't like you, why force them to let you preach at them about God? Sounds hyper-religious to me. Ego. Just start your own Social Community Center. You're no better than evangelical fundamentalists. High-minded. The audacity... This has nothing to do with atheism nor theism. Messiah complex. (Why would they continue paying you money just for you to tell them that you do not share their values???)
next up the real republican king of a nonexistent anarchist *state*
Is she a lesbian?
Exactly my question.
More than likely
Considering all the good that can come out of the cooperative efforts of a church congregation, I think it would be great if atheists had a similar gathering place.
This story is about an actual church, yes. I was just thinking: where's the meeting place of similar purpose for atheists? Instead of a sermon, perhaps a weekly TEDtalk-like presentation on a variety of thought provoking subjects. Plus members could work together on ways of helping our communities.
+TheRandomView just watch a Ted talk and volunteer on your own time lol. The whole thing about atheism is not needing something like that, least for me.
I appreciate your view, and you're right: I can just watch a Ted Talk and continue to volunteer on my own. I was just thinking that a group of people can often do more to help the community than just one person. Plus there is benefit in people gathering together.
Atheism is a religion according to the Supreme Court. There are Atheist churches, Interestingly enough. Atheists follow all the same patterns and behaviors of a religion. They have High Priests like Matt Dillahunty, and everything. They're just a religion that doesn't know they're a religion (the most likely to be deceived by what they're influenced by because they conflate their beliefs with facts)
next up, the porcine imam of the vatican.
Of course it's "your church". It certainly does not belong to the body of Christ.
Long live the ATHEISTS and the militant ATHEISTS !!!
Trinitei
Sounds like a uu
(Crying baby) " Bad stuff happens to good people (in reality depraved, God-hating people) so God doesn't exist."
She might wanna read some theology. Then become a philosophy professor. She's not too bright.... or at least not well read. Did she study theology? Nope.
This is a oxymoron.
reminds me of john spong both of them should be excommunicated
We can be more than we are?
Bilbo Baggins I believe it’s called growth, so yes.
hope she wins!
+Varun Dewan She won't.
God has already won! ; )
@@gregghill2059
It appears she did. reachfm.ca/news/atheist-pastor-will-continue-to-minister-in-united-church
Theistic supernatural god?
So self assured.
Hypocrit.
I suggest that Gretta should now be a member of The Clergy Project, which is based on ministers that left the clergy to became Atheists. Gretta is no longer a minister. One can't BE a preacher in a church, and at the same time be an Atheist.