Let's Discuss: Dark Stories
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- Опубликовано: 24 май 2021
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What I Love about Dark Stories= the light moments every now and then. They just hit me really hard.
Gintama is just the opposite of this. It's all comedy and then the dark moments hit, and man do they hit hard
Yep, the focus on the good, in the dark makes it. As i undulated throught the comments.
Evertime someone mentioned dark my mind keep remembering the panels of berserk( berserk is what defines dark series in manga community)
It's also one of the best, if not THE best, dark fantasy story ever written. It's definitely the best I've ever read.
she should definately check out berserk
She read volume 1. Did not seem to like it, but was interested in the story.
@@rymarz458 I think she’ll need to get into the golden age arc to really appreciate berserk.
@@rymarz458 yeah that's like dropping one piece 3 episodes in
Why do dark stories work for me? Because when we buddy read them on the Patreon server I get to see Merphy suddenly turn into this borderline villain as she's cheering on the main characters doing horrible horrible things. It's entertaining.
😂😂😂
EDIT: lol I'm in a different time zone right now, working on a big project for the channel and totally forgot this video was going live. Sorry about that first thumbnail and title 😂
Dark settings/characters/stories obviously aren't the only types of stories I enjoy (I mean, I'm on a One Piece kick right now, plus I love Lord of the Rings, Jane Austen, etc), but I did want to chat a little about *why* these darker stories draw us in (or why for some people, they steer clear). I'm not sure how well I did at explaining my side of it, but I would love to hear from you guys on why you love - or don't love - these types of stories.
Berserk is a dark fantasy manga that is arguably the best manga ever, though it is probably never going to be finished due to the authors death a few days ago, i would still recommend it with all my heart and soul.
Monster is a psychological thriller that is also considered as one of the greats, it has one of the best antagonists in all of manga
@@SuperGoodbadguy I don't think she would enjoy Berserk tbh, but yeah Monster is a good rec
I love the thumbnail posing at the end. Although I was quite afraid we would see some unintentional slipups :D
@@MarcosVinicius-oz6kl she might, she might not,,,i just have faith, maybe someday
@@SuperGoodbadguy she already read some of it said someone told her about the more fucked up type of things that happen later and it's stuff she refuses to read can't remember the video she said it in if I find it I'll edit
Edit: ruclips.net/video/TLF8krd7_1o/видео.html at 14:50
I like characters like Sirius Black, Bucky Barns, and Murtagh Morzansson. Characters who aren't bad guys but have done or been forced to do bad things, and your not sure if you should save them or kill them. Seeing how they work through that and how they play off the people around them who may have reason to hate them. How do they resolve this???
I feel like Elsa falls into this category too and I know that movie got overplayed but I LOVE IT FOR THAT-😂😂😭
Similar to this I like when characters becomes adult they kind off lose their hope to do the right thing everytime like if you want to save a village then may you have to sacrifice one innocent because I feel their pain that time and seeing how much they change into someone they never wanna be
I'm more for hopefull stories with dark aspects in it. I like this feeling of "terrible and awful things happen but in the end we have a happy ending". I don't like super grimdark stories where "Humanity is the worst, the world is lost", but that's just personal.
I don't want to be promised a happy ending, but I also don't want to know everything will end badly. The best books are the ones that could go either way. Where you can root for the 'heroes,' holding out hope of a payday/saving the world, but it could always end in ruin. Keep me on the edge of my seat until the very end, because I'm there for that.
This! I'm gonna kill off characters and have people spiral, because life is messy and no one comes out unscathed, but I always write with a strong dose of hope. I want my "happy ending" even if it's a melancholy HEA.
Admittedly, it’s vicarious thrill.
And I’m not a very emotionally expressive person, so dark stories are one of the few stories that truly make me feel.
Dark stories "work" for me because they feel more true to life. But, and let's be clear, dark stories can be hopeful. As opposed to stories that look to a brighter future or some desired outcome, the hope in darker fiction usually comes in the form of endurance. Maybe we'll survive this. Maybe the people I care about will come through. Maybe the next thing we build won't be destroyed. Maybe, one day, we'll figure it out. This is hope for the lost. The forgotten. The victims and the neglected. If you've ever had to live through any of those states, you know that jaw-clenching fierce-eyed hope. If your world has ever shrunk down to just getting through the day, or through the night, you know that hope. It is a single-minded hope. A desperate hope. Darker stories can resonate with that hope. But, more than that, there is something about abjectly bright and shiny stories that feels too clean, too alien for some of us with radically different lived experiences. It's not that they aren't appreciated, but they lack the power to evoke because they resonate with a different paradigm. In some cases, that can feel phony, and throw me out of the story. The hope those stories bring can feel like trying to catch a blade by the sharp end.
Hope and redemption stories are great and deeply human
I love it when characters are placed in situations they aren't ready to handle. You really get to see what people are made of when they are forced into making tough choices or doing things they aren't comfortable with. Internal struggles make the best suspense.
Yes because it makes us a lot less confident if they will succeed
Greek tragedy, The Greeks thought it was the ability to suffer with the characters without actually suffering harm.
The story I’m writing is fairly dark. I tried to give my character situations that are psychologically rough so that a reader can jump in their head when they’re making decisions. Makes for a very compelling character and relationship in my opinion
I’ve never actually read grim dark stories, but after listening to you! Now I’m intrigued 👀
I feel like I enjoy darker stories because they tend towards the moral gray and I find morally gray stories and characters more compelling because it's often harder to predict or see what actions the characters are going to take or where the story is going. The relief you get when your "gray" character makes the "right" choice or your disbelief in what you're reading when they make the "wrong" choice.
So you really like the Wreck It Ralph types.
"You are bad guy, but this does not mean you're bad guy."
I like them because of the character aspect like you outlined which is why I love stories like re zero and berserk
I think I’m different than most people in the sense that I don’t find “this guys is bad but he also has these good qualities. Wow!” Protagonists all that interesting. They’re fine, but not something I look for. I’m much more interested in seeing how someone can be good despite their flaws, than how someone can be bad despite their good qualities.
i picked up A Man Called Ove based on your GLOWING recommendation, and i'm absolutely loving it so far! so thank you for that
I like dark stories because the stakes feel higher when I don't know how the story will end or how bad things will get before we get to the ending. And even when they end well for the main character, if the main character is of questionable morals, there's the lingering feeling of whether it's actually a good thing that it ended well for them. It gets me way more invested when I feel uneasy about what's happening and if I'm questioning whether I want the main character to win or not. It's a talented author that can get me cheering for a villain.
I’m actually working on a pretty dark story right now, so this was really helpful!!! You’ve managed to make my day yet again, Merphy.
Thank you
This topic was interesting, really enjoyed the vid.
I love dark characters that are well rounded. You are literally saying everything I would say here haha. Character depth=readers falling for the bad guy.....thanks Locke.....lol Finally got book 2 of the gentleman bastard series!!!! 🙂💖
My favorite dark story is a manga called Berserk. It's a dark fantasy and more of a slow burn as you need to have read a bit of it before you can start seeing the message it's trying to convey. It also has some beautiful moments.
The main character is incredibly well writen and changes a lot as the story continues, eventualy becoming the "the big man". Learning his past let's you deeply understand and relate to his struggles. His actions can be questionable, but what makes the story great is it acknowledges them.
The art is also top tier. The later chapters all have a panel in them that makes you go "i want to have that as my wallpaper" or "that should be in a museum".
WARNING: It deals with heavy subjects and shows graphic depictions of traumatic events. It is not for the light of heart.
Nevertheless I really recommend (hope) you review it at some point.
#RIPMiura The creator of the greatest dark story ever made (Berserk)
I agree with you Murphy, I feel like we get more from the characters in dark stories. Survivors often say that we don't really know ourselves until we are put in situations that are unthinkable. In the darkest stories, we get to know who the charachters think they are, who they actually are, and why.
I love when a book makes me suffer
What a mood; same
Thank you so much for this insight. I take a great consideration for what horror readers are looking for when it comes to my writing. My 3rd and recently released book: “I Am Providence” (Lovecraft inspired cosmic horror short story) Took these recommendations and critiques into affect. Always love reader’s inputs.
About to dive into grim dark myself. Hoping to start First Law and Malice and continue with 1 Gwynn & Abercrombie each month.
🔥Ugh First Law🔥
I'm not sure what grim dark is. is it stories that cover dark themes like rape?
@@benjaminwatt2436 it's a subgenre, which can cover dark themes such as rape, but i feel it's more the gritty tone, and they tend to have more morally gray characters and combine fantasy and horror elements, GoT is the most famous example but the First Law is the best introduction imo
@@joldomort5515 Cool, that helps. thanks
@@benjaminwatt2436 One thing important about grimdark is that you should expect the typical character arc or plot progression. Victory is often quite blurry, so it's possible that some catharsis you're waiting for will never come. These are, probably, the things that makes new readers of the subgenre not want to read it anymore or outright dislike it.
Now this is hard, those stories definitely work for me, though I never questioned quite why they do! looking into those kinds of characters is for sure part of it, though I guess it's not the only reason for why I like them...
Talking about the darker parts of reading. Thank you!
The type of dark stories that I like are the ones that have gruesome things happen in them and morally ambiguous characters, stories that might seem completely hopeless and pessimistic at first glance, but when you look a little deeper you'll find that they're actually deeply human stories, about life and love and growing as a person
(yeah this is about Berserk lmao)
What I enjoy the most about "darker" books is that the characters tend up to have a huge development of themselves throughout the stories. Like Stephen King: much of the horror is just an element to drawn the reader's attention, although the character's own personnal thoughts are the key point to their arcs.
Thank you!
I've read a few dark stories that I've liked, but they're generally not my favorites. Maybe it's because I turned to reading at a lonely time in my life, but I've always been drawn to characters that keep going and try to be better. To stories that have hope in the dark. If I wanted to do a character study on morally gray, flawed, and selfish characters, I have plenty of those in real life and in history. Give me some good escapism in my fiction.
Which isn't to say the journey can't be dark, scary, and disheartening at times. That the characters shouldn't be nuanced and flawed. Both can and should do so. I just want to follow people I don't actively dislike along the way.
This is a really neat topic...I haven’t read a wide variety of dark characters so far but definitely admit that those I have have really, really stuck with me, and I am very drawn to them. I think a lot of my reasons are similar to yours, Merphy, and also I love seeing the humanity in these darker, more complex characters, I think it always makes me root for some level of redemption, whether or not they actually get it. Like Kaz, from Six of Crows. Seeing what drives these characters make them feel so much more real, and makes me so much more invested in what’s going to happen, and it’s interesting to see their choices drive the plot, even if it’s bad stuff, seeing them create their own conflict instead of them just reacting to what happens to them all the time. (Maybe that’s too much of a generalization but it can feel that way sometimes, at least.)
RIP Miura-san
I like writing and reading dark stories, because the content tends to be more varied and cover worthy topics that most people usually aren’t comfortable talking about. The caveat, of course, is that it’s hard to talk about a story that you’re really invested in unless the person you’re talking to is open for a discussion- and let’s face it, it’s perfectly okay if that’s not the case. I can talk about my efforts to try and write about hard things, like mental health, violence, suicide, depression, or really, some of the worst things that we have to encounter in society, and I’m so thankful that I have friends who are invested in those discussions. I’m thankful that they’re invested in the more action-packed stuff I’ve written too. But there’s definitely a sense of frustration when you’re not sure how the people closest to you are going to react when you tell them about what you’ve written.
Love dark stories because it makes the bright moments all the more brighter. You feel everything deeply, if the author does their job well, so when the good moments hit, they REALLY hit. When a certain character didn't die at the end of The Trouble with Peace I wept with joy. Or any good moment in Malazan. Just brilliant.
Great video. I'm creating a Dark Fantasy Universe. Along the lines of a comic universe where each book is a different character but just in novel form. I'm on book two, I hope there is a hunger out there for it.
My mental health doesn't do well with dark. Mistborn put me in a funk for days, lol. My own writing involves assassins, self-harm, PTSD, etc, but I like to intersperse hope, romance, and good support to balance out the trauma-focused interiority.
Heh. Mine involves assassin plus other-harm with large dollops of hope and refusal to ever give up.
What I really dislike are books full of unlikeable characters with no redeeming features.
Listening to you, I think you would like "Worm" the web serial, I could relate a lot of what you said about characters to characters in Worm.
For dark theme?? I always recommend Berserk, this is absolute to notch story telling and world building. And oh so great art work
Yeah berserk is probably my favourite story ever, or at least is up there
Too much gratuitous rape for my tastes.
My favorite grimdark type of stories are the ones where the character are thrown into overwhelming but chose to fight. The characters don't have to win they just have to fight.
For example if the story has eldritch being or unending wave of monsters the protagonist at some point decides that I am going to stab Cthulhu in the face. Or they decide that I will fight and die because that is better than laying down and die.
The book Helsreach is a great example of my favorite type or grimdark story.
2 Merphy's for the price of 1; this was a steal of a video!
The first dark things I read were 1984 and first law. I felt like it was a shock to read stories that weren't as hopeful and instead dealt with a bleaker setting, because the books I'd read up to that point were adventurous and fantastic to imagine. But I've come to value darker stories since because they also allow me to experience something I don't often deal with in my life, whether it's heroic or brutal. Whether it's dark or hopeful, it's still an experience I am allowed to be a part of through the story
i think for the kind of character that does terrible things, and that you wouldn't wanna be friends with in real life, but reading about them you kind of love them, and want them to find the good in themselves and have peace - then you can't go wrong with dostoevsky ❤️
It ultimately depends on the plot and intention of the story, but I myself will often prefer happier and more uplifting stories that can still be very gripping because.... well I need a break from the misery every now and then
For me it is the dystopian worlds: what people have to do to survive. What morals and personality traits are being tested. How characters maintain their dignity and integrity in a world that destroys them. It is also about people fighting to hold onto their beliefs and home.
Am I the only one who likes to see the difference whenever someone pops in from the future in their videos. There is a book at the top shelf behind Merphy that wasnt there before, when past Merphy was talking.
First thing that pops into mind with grim dark is human psychology.
the first thing i thought of was cereal killers, it can be interesting to read/watch something on them, but really freaky too
Personally I'm not all that interested in messed up psychologies. I Prefer generally good characters in gritty settings - besides the grit being an aesthetic preference, I think a dark setting offers opportunities for sociopolitical commentary that lighter settings tend to gloss over.
I was kinda iffy about first law's ending (I would have wanted more characters being redeemed or get what they deserve), but the satire of petty political squabbles was very entertaining.
@@maximeteppe7627 I do have a problem with writers, writing shock type novels, which happens in this genre. I can enjoy a dark story, but I need to like the characters and there has to be a good logical reason for the dark elements, some stories feel so fabricated
Semi related tangent:
Great thing about dark literary characters and settings is that if translated to cinema, you know that they'll inspire kick ass music. Some of the best music from the Peter Jackson LOTR films are related to Gollum, the orcs, Shelob the spider, Mordor, the Nazgul, and Sauron.
if you want to read a dark story ,read Berserk.
the suffering,pain,hell
She read the first volume almost a year ago said she's not continuing
I'm reading it now.
I personally don't mind stories having dark moments or them getting a bit darker over time but also I really dislike if it's death and despair 24/7. I end up dreading the next installment because my brain is like "what's everything that could go wrong" and then I end up stressing over it, which is not how I like to enjoy stories. This kind of thing is the reason I drop so many shows or books. They start off super lighthearted but then they take a sharp turn into dark and "everything is horrible all the time" which just...turns me away really really fast. This is why I enjoy filler episodes a lot when it comes to TV shows and such. they give me that break I need so that i don't get overwhelmed by the negativity of everything happening in a series.
A Song of Ice and Fire has exactly these kind of characters. At first you see them being evil, and you start to hate them, but once you start to understand them more, they quickly become one of your favourites.
When I was younger reading was primarily an escape so I read mostly romance for the guaranteed happy ending and YA fantasy for the fun. It is only within the last few years that I have branched out from those genres to a few thrillers, adult fantasy, etc. I am much more willing now to read a dark story. I guess life is just generally better, or I finally figured out that the world isn't as scary as I thought.
Next one could be resurrection! (One of my personal least favorites, but I’d like to hear your opinion!)
I like the fighting a pointless battle narrative, like in GOT it never ends well for the characters but what choice do they have but to keep fighting, it’s dark but also inspirational in a way
One of the darkest, most disturbing stories I've read is The Killing Lessons by Saul Black. This book had me shook!
I'm guessing this is like a new version of dear authors? I like it.
I fully agree with you that darker stories often have amazing characters, but another thing I love about those books is that you often genuinely don't know how the story will end. In many stories that follow a more traditional hero you kind of know that somehow they will save the day, it may cost them, depending on the story you might not be sure if they will survive but the dark lord is not going to win the war. But if there are no heroes you sometimes honestly have no idea, and may even not know who to root for. After my boyfriend and I both read the trouble with peace we discussed it and found out we had been rooting for different sides of the main conflict! There just is no such thing with lord of the rings or Harry Potter
This is why I enjoy horror so much. Good horror is about the characters, not the spooky shit. The ghosts and monsters is there to force characters into larger-than-life scenarios so they can show us more of themselves we might not usually see.
That’s also why a lot of horror movies fall flat for me, and Pet Sematary is one of my all-time favorite books.
I like happy stories because it’s an escape from the often depressing real world. I like dark stories because they tend to focus more on character-I think you’re right to say it! A dark story with a happy ending is my cup of tea cause I like knowing that the character’s struggle paid off and they can enjoy being happy now.
What about a story with multiple perspectives where they all have multiple intents - one wants to do all the right things, one's a criminal who's not evil but is still naughty, and another is out for revenge...?
How did you feel about Fitz in the Farseer series? I really love his character and the progression that is felt there. I’m reading it now and I genuinely feel like I’m watching my friend grow into a man. Experiences like this are what make reading such a magical experience
I love dark stories because they feel more real and relatable. Reading about true struggles like the death of friends, impossible odds, or real human trauma brings characters to a realistic playing field. Then being able to see these things shape a character’s decision is truly satisfying. Especially when you see how a morally gray or black decision is made and justified. I guess what I am getting at about dark stories is I like shift from the defined “good vs evil” in more hopeful stories, to a world like our own where most of society lives in a gray area of competing ideas and justifications for those ideas.
@Tom Ffrench life is dark enough for me. I read to be somewhere else, preferably light, lol. I agree
Totally off topic here...Just wanted to let you know that I read "A Man called Ove" on your recommendation. Oh my gosh I loved this book. I wish there were more people like Ove in the world.
Thanks.
I would love to have your thoughts on death note! One of the best dark character and storie ever for me
I do consume dark fantasy (or grim dark, I don't know) but only in small amounts. I find the concept really interesting but I can't handle torture, especially when it's really graphic, e.g. in gentlemen bastards. Such things tend to haunt me. I still love gentlemen bastards, it's so amazing, but I have to take breaks inbetween books.
I like these darker settings because we also get to explore different people's levels of humanity. Different grey moral or antiheroes and the variation among them and the lines that they will never cross whilst also all being "evil"
Manga recommendation for Merph, Berserk. Gory at first but the character and development...mindblowing, I have never felt such a surge of emotions at the same time, god I can keep going on.
I was gonna say Berserk too, it’s dark
LoL everyone recommending berserk but I'll keep replying she already read the first volume said she's not going to continue
i like (kinda? unsure where i fit at this time) dark stories because they feel more realistic and sometimes more sympathetic. i also enjoy tragedy. i remember seeing something about a study that showed people who consume a lot of stories with happy endings actually have a tendency to be less charitable people because it turns their world view to "you deserve what you get, good people get a happy life, if your life isn't happy, you must have done something wrong". i feel like true or not a lot of happy stories do share the message that if you're perfectly nice and sweet nothing bad will happen to you or at least it'll work out soon enough. They also often criticize victims or people trying to defend themselves, like "how dare you not want to be hurt, if you're a good person you should let people attack you and then you can be friends" like, huh? sometimes happy stories really get under my skin for how they minimize real-world problems. They can be nice sometimes but i'd rather see more realistic depictions that I can really empathize with or at least relate to in some way.
oh i also feel like some of the draw in the case of not so heroic characters can be because sometimes trying to be perfectly good all the time can get tiring and I think many of us at times wish we didn't care so much and would be a little more selfish (not to the point of being truly mean but just not wanting to feel bad about every possible tiny failure that could upset someone or just look bad) and seeing a character that doesn't care can be a little fun and a little cathartic maybe.
I like darker stories bc usually the characters are smarter and all questionable decisions are within some logical thought process and not just bc the plot demanded, also whatever victory is achieved is earned and has lasting consequences
I feel like darker stories more accurately capture the human condition - not in the way that we're all messed up and dark, but in our tendancy to persevere, the lengths we go to protect what we love and depictions of the 'final straw'. Daniel Greene's book was great for this exact thing - I liked the dark story not cause it was dark, but because the bursts of light that shone through meant so much more.
Totally agree!!!🤗🤗🇦🇷
Based on this video and your interest in character over plot, dark, etc., I HAVE to recommend From the Mouth of the Whale by Sjon. It is a beautifully dark, fascinatingly bleak, poetically pulling, and super short.
Ohh I just remebered. About the Tough Guy video you said that you would love to reab from his perspective but there are not many books like that.
I think Percy falls within that category. His actual fatal flaw is his will to sacrifice for his friends so... yeah.
you should read Prince Of Nothing / Aspect Emperor. My top favorite fantasy saga. It's grimdark another level. You will be serve well with dark characters way darker
I like stories that are mostly neutral on the darkness scale but will add in dark elements only when it's necessary
Ya know, I'm here for a variety. I lean more towards a "darker" storyline with a hopeful / bittersweet or even just happy ending because that feels real to me.
GTA started Grimdark, change my mind.
Not really related to the video but.. you should do a video telling us about your dnd character and your campaign!
I like dark things ,and I'm not sure why. LOL. I know others have the same experience. There a whole psychology behind why people like darker stories. I do like lighter ones too, though. I also enjoy getting into the psychology behind those types of characters just like you. As for the stories themselves, I guess there is just something so inherently interesting about dark stories. They can be really poetic and artistic too. I can't really describe it.
Rogue One... definitely best Star Wars movie.
What does FIM stand for?
The thing about grimdark is, at their heart, they are as unrealistic as super light, fluffy, nothing really bad ever happens stories.
Both lack a twist of reality because real life is rarely to either extreme. Most people experience an up & down of good & bad experiences & decisions. How good or bad most people's lives are is ultimately unknown, but I like to think it's rare for someone to lose hope entirely.
Overall, I'm good with grim stories that have good or at least positive endings. Because I come away with the idea that if this person can come through this bad stuff & still enjoy life, I can go through my rough stuff too & also be alright.
I also think stories that start light & turn darker work.
I can't think of one that starts grim & turns light . . .
By "light" I mean, has good or positive things happened to the characters.
Dark and horror are the best genres. H.P. Lovecraft is my favorite.
I feel like I'm half with you on this, I like darker settings but prefer characters that choose to go against cultural normals and chooses right over easy.
I tend to like dark stories as well. It's largely due to the characters. Tywin Lannister is one of my favorite characters ever. Obviously he's not a protagonist but I still relate to him. Also, the meme at the end was perfect.
Khalid el-Mazri says "Want to get into my mind? Oh, I don't think so, dear. Perhaps after some wine...."
would dark stories include the Horror genre or is this something different cause I want to start getting into the stories that you are talking about
It's a mixed bag for me, cause I really enjoy some darker elements (in particular the sort of "creepy/ominous" side rather than outright horrific) but in something I don't know whether to fully call "undiagnosed OCD" I can end up sort of compulsively thinking about it when something gets too bad.
So for example I'm very interested in trying First Law, but probably won't because reading about a protagonist that was horribly tortured and maimed and now does the same to others... that's in the danger zone
I used to love morally gray characters (or just plain psychopaths) and dark stories as a teen but I was also incredibly depressed and had no connection to my emotions - that's something I fixed over the past years and now everything I consume has an emotional impact on me that I notice immediately so obviously I tend to prefer happy and hopeful stories :)
That doesn't mean I can't acknowledge a really good dark book (cough The Poppy War)
My favourite type of dark story is one where the protagonist tries to do the right thing but either must first pass through darkness, or cannot succeed and decends into darkness.
I'm not a big fan of darkness for the sake of darkness, aka edginess, though it isn't necessarily a deal breaker for me.
"While it is possible to make decisions which are in every obvious sense voluntary and logical, they may be made in order to achieve an end which is in itself involuntary ('drive') and illogical. Put another way, we make sane sequential moves towards an insane and inconsequential purpose."
I totally get this so much and it's an inspiration for a lot of what I do in writing. One of my major projects is inspired by the life of Jeffrey Dahmer and you get to follow this character around, watching his fall into desperation and delusion induced by rejection and isolation. He doesn't realize he's losing or lost touch with reality and doing the character study on Jeff, getting into his head of who he was and how he made his decisions is really something I hope I can capture through my story. You've got the dark stories of the people making bad or selfish decisions knowingly, but then you've got the stories of those lost to their own fantasies and impulses who can't stop themselves because they aren't seeing reality. All of these POVs are so interesting to get to know.
I think the best characters are the ones who do terrible things, and you know what they’re doing is wrong, but you can’t help but agree with their motivation. The best example I have for this isn’t a book, but a movie, and that would be Promising Young Woman. Obviously getting revenge on men who assault women by harassing them is not the moral thing to do, but I can’t help but love stories where girls seek revenge on sexist men. Because deep down, I kinda wish I could get revenge on the people who hurt me too, and I think a lot of people feel the same way. The only difference is that we choose not to act upon those feelings.
I think I like darker stories (maybe not outright grimdark though) because of a lot of reasons. The main character isn't guaranteed to win because sometimes them winning isn't always a good thing thus I don't always know what will happen, situations tend to be a bit more complex and nuanced, we sometimes get the enjoyment of that villain's perspective of doing villainous things, and because things tend to get a bit darker, when you do see that shred of light and happiness, it feels a lot more potent, you know?
I have problems with dark and sometimes even grey settings more than the characters in them. Since many stories that follow dark/grey personas are set in settings to match, I tend to take these characters in TV shows; movies have the same if worse problem than books because of time restraints.
Some characters that have my attention:
Benjamin Linus 'Lost' has some of the best grey character reasons for being who he is.
Elim Garak 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.' This is one instance when book and show make for a more complete, complex tragic hero.
Will Graham 'Hannibal.' One instance where I'm going to read the book because the show almost wrecked me, but the character has a lovely drop into the destructive madness he finds himself in.
Read the Metamorphosis!!
There is a series called the last man on earth. Its a light funny show that focuses on when the last man on earth meets the last woman on earth and starts discovering, their not the last woman or man after all. Its interesting because it causes funny situation and questions on how they will manage it.
The spot they went wrong is both main characters are anoying and later the main man becomes awful. He goes though confulated plans that evntualy leeds him to get kicked out. He doesnt change a thing and the main chick desides to follow him. Then we discover he has a twin in space that is better in everyway. That is how the season ends.
Hate that
Doesnt work.
I like how you brought up Tao because I am listening to The Rage of Dragons and I hated Tao for the first 1/3rd of the book because of how stupid he was. I only stuck with is because you and Daniel recommended the book so heavily and I am happy I did. Tao's character progression is really amazing and the darker character out for revenge is definitely interesting.