My unpopular opinion on DNA filter and Fuel X | Royal Enfield Interceptor 650
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- Опубликовано: 3 авг 2024
- Hello guys! In this video, I installed DNA filter and Fuel X to improve the performance of my bike. But did it do anything? Let me share my honest opinion. It will be an unpopular one, sorry!
I have a FuelX Lite on my BS4 (Euro4) 390 Duke with no other mods and it made a noticeable improvement in the low and mid range torque as well as smoothness. Absolutely worth the money. I also have a BS6 (Euro5) Interceptor and others have reported good results so I intend to buy one for this eventually. What you should understand is that it only works with the lambda signal (the sensors to which you connected the device) and this signal is ignored by the ECU when you open the throttle wide. During normal riding, you should feel a smoother throttle response and better low end torque. In my 390 Duke which is infamous for poor low end torque, I can now hold lower speeds in each gear. For reference, without the FuelX it could not go lower than 95 kmph in 6th gear without juddering. With the FuelX, I can go as low as 80 kmph! The improvements are noticeable from 2000 to 6000 rpm but nil from 6000 to 10000 rpm. If you want better 0-100 times, you need a Powertronic.
Hey! Thanks for your comment! It seems that you have a great experience with FuelX on both of your bikes! This sounds great, I wish I could say the same. I am working really really hard to notice any difference, but I still can not. I just upgraded the rest of the bike's exhaust system and still struggle to feel it. I am happy that AFR is now correct, and the bike is not running lean, the engine is cooler, etc. The only change that I can admit - is low rpm stability. Maybe, if I remove the FuelX I would notice the difference right away.
P.S. When I put 13 tooth sprocket (instead of stock 14) to my previous bike, that felt like a dramatic "performance" upgrade. Low-end torq increase, much better acceleration, bike could get to higher top speed, etc. Maybe I was expecting too much after watching and reading so many positive reviews.
@@thesundayrides Oh, I have the FuelX on my 390 Duke only. I have not installed it on my Interceptor yet. I was just sharing other people's feedback which has been positive. I would suggest watching TEC Bike Parts' video about the FuelX to know more about what kind of improvements to expect because this device will not work miracles. It will just make your bike nicer to ride in city conditions. And yes, going one tooth down on the front sprocket does make a significant difference. I tried it on my 390 Duke (15 teeth to 14 teeth) early on but reverted to stock when I got the FuelX.
@@twowheeledparadoxThanks!
Which bike to do you ride more often and why?
@@thesundayrides Interceptor. Even though my 390 has better brakes, far superior suspension, high agility, better ergonomics and good 0-100 kmph acceleration, the Interceptor has more soul. It feels so charming, inviting and laid back. It just makes me want to get on and go for a ride.
@@twowheeledparadox I absolutely agree with you! 100%! This was the reason I got Interceptor. And I got exactly what I expected from it. It doesn’t provoke to go fast and crazy, it inspires to enjoy the ride, the moment, the journey! Ride safe man! It was great chatting to you!
Great information and look forward to your next one
Thanks, Stan!
Performance decrease 😞i already buy... thanks 🙏 a lot of honest review &tec information.😊
Over almost a year running it - I don't regret it, it supports my other mods: aftermarket straight pipes, end cans and airbox delete. All in all bikes runs great - and if it has anything to do with Fuel X - I am thankful. I was naive to expect a performance gain after swapping piples, airfilter and getting the Fuel X.
YOO!! We rock and ride the same bike! same color!!!! cheers from California!
Hey, California! Our bikes are awesome 😎 !! It is one of my dreams to ride in California! Across all national parks!
Interesting results 🤔 I have run open exhaust for 2 years, KN filter for 1 without noticing too much change in performance. Recently I have finally invested in FuelX lite and the difference was immediate. Bike is more eager to accelerate and does so in more linear way. I do not have to downshift as often as the bike pulls smoother in low RPM. Motorcycle feels overall more alive at bottom end.
Which bike do you have?
I agree, feels more live at the bottom end. But middle and top end - just a subtle change. But let’s say, if it was running too lean and too hot with the air filter and aftermarket exhaust, now with the help of fuel x it certainly doesn’t.
@@thesundayrides Yeah exactly. Im pretty sure thats the main point of this box. To counter the lean setting from factory. Hopefully it will also be a more happy and healthy engine in the future. Middle to top I see no change, maybe just a bit smoother. I see it as that the exhaust and filter possibly made a few horses but they were unleashed only after the FuelX was installed... and I ride Euro4 Interceptor Baker expres 😉
I am the 1000th Subscriber, Cheers.🙂
Hurrah! Yes, you are! Thanks for subscribing!
Great video Max!
I respect and love how you spent your money to conclude that a simple exhaust and air filter change (in your case even a fuel management system) doesn't ACTUALLY increase performance.
If anything, it kinda takes away a little performance as it is now the ENGINE that physically limits performance!
Whenever one considers increasing actual engine performance, one must consider CAMSHAFTS and TIMING. Only when the engine is physically capable of producing more power, must one move on to opening up the INTAKE and EXHAUST to gain noticeable and provable performance.
Hello and thank you for a wonderful explanation!
Unfortunately, there are a lot of people (myself included) who ACT without understanding how things WORK. My decision to upgrade was purely based on the hype.
Could you please explain a bit further?
How to change the TIMING for more performance? Could you suggest a step by step guide how to ACTUALLY improve performance of this bike, I will try to make it into a video!
Thank you very much for a great comment!
@@thesundayrides Here to help Max, and I appreciate your honesty! We all get sucked into the world of performance mods by following the hype at first 😉
A performance camshaft will physically allow the engine to make more power owing to the design of the camshaft - especially compared to stock. Meanwhile, Timing is also closely linked to camshaft design, as the spark plugs need to fire at the right time to make the most power.
Performance cams will require a free flowing intake and exhaust, which you already have! You will also require to remap the ECU to work with the new camshaft, which can be achieved by a Power Commander with the appropriate map for the bike and installed camshaft.
These are just the basics. I reached out via email with a more in-depth explanation!
Cheers 🥂
@@stanzgarage Hi Stan, thank you so much for providing additional explanation. I'll make sure to do this for the next season. I just need to find a skilled mechanic who can assist because this definitely isn't a task I'm comfortable with.
One question: what is the practical difference between flashing and ECU and adding a Power Commander with a map?
@@thesundayrides Flashing the ECU is a highly specialist job and not a lot people can do it. Also, there is the topic of wanting to revert to stock at a time convenient to you!
This is where a Power Commander or a Standalone ECU comes into play, where you can retain all the originality of the ECU, whilst allowing you to extract all the performance you desire from your mods and running the stock ECU parallelly.
Hi, I have the DNA set up but not the Fuel X I am interested in it though because here in Cyprus (summer temp in excess of 40 degrees C) the bike gets really hot in summer and wanted to reduce the heat. I also have stock pipes. Your thoughts would be most welcome. Thanks a lot.
Hi, good honest review. I bought my intercepter with the DNA kit fitted and it also had a booster plug, I felt it felt flat at higher speeds than it should do, so I took the booster plug of and fitted a normal filter and cover so now its back to stock and the pick up is far stronger just quieter. DNA kit lets too much air in and the computer can never adjust to that amount of air so it will run very lean.
Hi Philip and thanks for your comment! This suggested an idea to try Fuel X without the
DNA filter. But I think I threw the stock filter away already. Damn!
@@thesundayrides hi, I think you may get better results by fitting the original air cover, I agree the open cover sounds good but the engine will get hotter with very lean mixture. Good fun trying though
@@philippash5264 in theory, that’s what fuel x is there for - it corrects the air fuel ratio to match the new air flow and the change in pressure on the exhaust side.
I put less restrictive exhaust on my INT 650 and I THINK it improved the low-end torque a bit. The exhaust sure sounds better and now I can listen for the tone instead of looking at the tach to know when to shift. It see if a "performance" air filter would be worth it, I removed my clean air filter and ran the bike without a filter. Except for increased air intake noise, I noticed no difference in performance. In all cases, I let the engine run for about 10 minutes at idle before testing. I will keep the new mufflers and forget about adding any more "performance" accessories, particularly the grossly overpriced air filter system.
That’s exactly the same conclusion I came to! And you know what, straight pipes fall into the same category. The positive change in performance is a result of weight reduction. But if I knew it, I would not spend money on air filter, fuel x and the pipes.
Well Brother this Update worked for me. I have installed POWERTRONIC, AEW-T 102 Slipon, FUEL-X PRO - 10 Level and last MAP with Level 1 & 2 to select when riding in city and highway
Sounds awesome, brother! For my education: why do you need both powertronic and fuel x?
This upgrades improves throttle response and way Norque is delivered. which in turn less gear change. There is slight increase from 47 to near 50 and from 52 to 54.5 in Torque which I have seen on Dyno test. I would suggest to install Powertornic Map switch which has 2 level to choose from. Also one thing to keep in mind is once Powertronic and Fuel X PRO is installed Bike has to left at idle for 10 minutes for ECU to get adjusted on its own@@thesundayrides
Re:Brakes, i tested the 2023 interceptor a d find that the brakes were spot on given the performance. My twin 320mm fully floating Brembos work great with HH sintered ferrodo pads, so those EBC should be fine.
It is adequate, you are right, but I would prefer to have just a little bit more. And only because I compare with my previous bikes.
Good video! Based on the last 1 of yours I watched it seems like the fuel X still sucks?
hahah you know it doesn't suck any more!! everyone told me the bike would suck at lower rps without the air box, but it does not. I can only think it is because of the fuel x silent magic. I also took the baffles out. Everyone said I can't do it on the Eur5 bike otherwise it will suck. no it didnt. Fuel x again?
@@thesundayrides Interesting, might have to unplug it and see lol... nah, probably best just to leave everything alone :)
I tried mine with new tec cans only and felt things got worse so I put the original mufflers back on. I have an air filter on its way so we will see. It would be interesting to see what it is like with standard exhaust, dna air cleaner and fuelx. All the dyno tests suggest a significant improvement but real world is another matter.
Hi Phil! It's a good experiment, please share your experience afterward.
I also saw a lot of mystical dyno tests, but in real life, performance degraded. I met with a guy who is more knowledgeable than I am and he explained why. I have an interview with him on the channel, if you have time - please check it out. one of the latest vids. I am planning a few more upgrades that he recommended, and hopefully, that will actually see some gains.
Best of luck with your mods!
If you want a noticeable improvement in performance either:
1. increase compression ratio and change the camshaft
2. Big bore kit, or
3. Buy another bike
One thing is for sure, 0-100kph should be about 6.5 secs (mine is), so rev the thing and be more aggressive.
Absolutely! I was naive…
3. Is the most practical option
Amazing video! To complete the air filter + exhaust upgrade, a reprogramming would be necessary, then you would notice big changes...
Thanks 🙏 I might try that! Do you have any recommendations where to do it?
@@rebelsia1010 thanks! Cheers to Germany!
Hey Max, I have the DNA set up but not the Fuel X I am interested in it though because here in Cyprus the bike gets really hot in summer and wanted to reduce the heat. I know you said in the video that you were not sure if it did but I was wondering if you have any update on the temperature issue. Thank!
Hey Andreas! I just recorded another video where I met with a very experienced person and he calls FuelX as a supporting mod to assist with further performance upgrades. We can ask him to have a look at your question, and provide a better answer.
My personal humble opinion that it can’t make the bike noticeably cooler. It simple correct the fuel to air ratio. After swapping exhaust you are risking running lean. Lean mixture burns hotter than rich one. FuelX should in theory make afr right, so you have a balanced mixture that burns at the right temperature. So it’s back to stock running with an aftermarket exhaust. So if your bike overheats you should probably look for a cooling system upgrade. Or, unfortunately, move over to a liquid cooled bike. Time to get a new bonnie!
Thanks Max for the reply, I will have to figure it out. I love the interceptor to much to even consider selling it so I will keep trying and find a way. Yes it would be great to hear the thoughts of the guy you met. Thanks again for your help.@@thesundayrides
@@andreastomblin2137
@stanzgarage - is the man. There is a comment from him under this video. Try writing something under his comment so he can see it and get back to you.
I put the open air filter cover on, I think the only advantage to the DNA filter is that it’s cleanable and reusable. Fuelx is probably a gimmick. The most noticeable immediate improvement for me came from fitting a 16t front sprocket. It rides like a different machine.
Fully agree! In my case, the biggest change came from removing heavy parts and replacing them with lighter aftermarket ones: exhaust system, tail, pegs, stand, headlight, bars, mirrors, etc.
Interesting about the sprocket. That is the standard tooth count on Int? Did you go one up or one down? How does it feel? Can you please share a link where you got the sprocket from?
Thanks 🙏
@@thesundayrides I thought I replied to this earlier but I’m not seeing it now. Stock is 15t and I went up to 16t. Makes a big difference. Got it from Hitchcock’s.
@@elwood62lower acceleration in the gears but higher top speed at slightly lower cruise rpm 🤷🏻♂️
@@kevindarkstar I understand that everyone believes that’s the way it works. In reality, if you lose any acceleration it isn’t noticeable. It makes every gear taller, not just 6th. It makes a bigger difference to the feel of the bike than you’d think it would. When people say things like “it drops 400rpm at 60mph” they’re missing the bigger picture. It increases the top speed of every gear.
I don’t think there is another part you could buy for $25 that makes such a huge change in performance.
@@elwood62 You have two options when deviating from your bike’s current gear ratio; go higher with the gearing or go lower. What does that mean?
Higher gearing more closely matches rear-wheel speed to transmission shaft speed, resulting in lower engine RPMs, higher potential top speed, and improved fuel economy. The tradeoff is reduced throttle response and acceleration. Higher gearing will have a lower ratio number than your current setup
Taken from a performance motorcycle site, and hence my original comment.
Did you run the bike at a tickover for 20 minutes (without revving it) to allow the ECU to recalibrate it?
Hi, Nicholas! Yes I did. And I also assume that it re-adjusts while riding.
Did you kept the Fuel X? From what I found out, the Fuel X makes the engine run cooler when upgrading the exhaust and the air filter. It might not be about performance. Those upgrades add up air to the mixture, turning the air fuel ratio bad, as there is now too much air flow, which leads to the engine overheating. I can see that in your latest videos your exhaust head is starting to acquire a bronze color and may even become bluing in the future. This is due to engine overheating, as the gas is too hot and literally burns the metal. But that's the theory, I'm curious to whether your head pipes became like this even with the Fuel X installed. Cheers!
Hello! Yes, I did keep it. You are absolutely right and I didn't know it. However I kep the Fuel X as a supporting mode and I have no means to check if it is working or not, I just hope it is doing its little magic.
On brake pads ;
Try EPFA209 it be better than one you have shown on the video. why EPFA ? Interceptor is heavy so standard sintered would give just initial bite feel and not enough stopping.
there is a bedding process (prep work on the disk) (and ride up to 70mph and brake hard to stop about 2-3 times)
for EPFA after completing that it would give you a different feedback.
Thanks mate! I will try that! I am very unhappy with interceptor stoping power, so any improvement there will be a plus.
It is the biggest disadvantage of the bike in my opinion.
Does changing master cylinder make any effect on the braking power?
@@thesundayrides your; welcome brov.
Mastercylinder mainly is for feel from the lever ( it would help) 13mm soft lever feel - 16 or 19mm wooden feel . smaller the mastrcyclinder piston size the softer lever feel > bigger say from 16mm onwards it be more wooden or stiffer lever feel)
@@thesundayrides for outright stoping force its the caliper -> motorcycle more bite ; try brake pads as you did (try with EPFA) if you want more(after EPFA) change Caliper for more stopping power.
On new caliper means it would have its own brake pads not necessary same dimensions as the one on your motorcycle OEM pads
@@jacobjp5799 thanks! and how does the change of calliper go with the abs?
@@thesundayrides yes it will work as intended
ABS reads from ring on the wheel /wheel speed sensor
so no issue
How come your back rego plate faces up to the sky?
It’s already fixed with a new fender and tail tidy kit, mate!
Rykas café? Are you local to Surrey? I ride an interceptor too
Hi! Yes, spot on, it is Rykas! I am in south west of London and rykas is one of my favourite spots to stay and finish a journey
@@thesundayrides cool Man Box Hill is 10 minutes from me (Epsom Downs) I will try to look you up next time I am around
@@MonsieurFromLondon sounds great!
Hey@@MonsieurFromLondon ! I want to try a new format for my videos. I want to meet with a number of local riders, who ride Royal Enfields. shoot a short interview (why they chose RE, likes dislikes, stuff like this) and then shoot a ride together around the area. would you like to take part in the first episode? I was thinking about any weekend in October, whatever works for you.
@@thesundayrides weekend of the 21st, Box Hill?
You need to adjust your settings, you didn’t install the switchable map switch. Probably running on a lean setting
Hey Keith! Thanks for the tip! I decided to buy the one with no button, as they claim it adapts to the situation automatically. I think it became a bit better with time. Or it is because I removed more unwanted weight from the bike...
The unit comes in Lite and Pro versions. The lite just has the one map, the pro is the switchable one.
Are they the original downpipes?
In this video - yes. Shortly after shooting this episode I upgraded to Tec big bore pipes
these things can be a bit gimmicky , 9 secs to 60 is sad , nearly 12 is pathetic , should be 4 to 5 ,,, nice looking bike by the way ,, the way i see it is that - this bike is made as a soft motor , adding bits is a bit hit and miss , as the cams are mild and the compression ratio is low , unless higher comp pistons and bigger profile cam , properly set overlap timing , bigger valves, possible upgrade oil pump e.t.c. there is not much to be gained , the cooler running claim is simply because the mixture has been turned up ,,, it,s not exactly magic ;;;
Yeah exactly! I don’t care about 0 to 60. No one who cares about that would get an interceptor. It is not a fast bike. Even if you make it fast, you will then have another problem- slow down. But everyone was talking about a ‘better pull’,’better acceleration’,’better performance’ as soon as they changed the air filter and added the fuel plug , so I could not think about another objective test. If you know another good test that will make the changes obviously visible, let me know I will re do the video
I’m somewhat shocked by the 9 second 0-60. Sure it’s not what this bike is about but that seems really bad performance to me. Has this bike been reviewed for this metric, I haven’t seen it. My Kawasaki W800 Cafe was reviewed to do it in 5.19 sec and it feels like it to and it’s considered a slowish bike, 9+ doesn’t sound right to me at all. I never got around to trying the Int, perhaps I should just for curiosity.
@@simonwalker7957 hey Simon! There are good reasons for it: it’s a heavy bike, there is only 47hp, I am not the fastest shifter, I used a mobile phone to measure time.. the point was only to compare before and after putting ‘performance’ upgrades and everything to be consistent between experiments. Since this upgrade i reduced the weight of the bike dramatically. I will need to repeat the acceleration tests.
9 seconds what???? My stock one does that in 5.5 no idea how anyone is getting 9
Hey, after youy install all parts, didi you let the motorcycle acclimate by letting the engine on for 10/15 minutes?
maybe that's why the results whore not that good!
by the way, gorgeus bike dude, congrats
Hey Heitor! Thanks for your comment! Cheers!
Well, yes, I let the bike chill with the engine on for 10/15 minutes and then I took it for a gentle ride for more than an hour. and only after all that I did the speed runs.
On the next day, I installed all these updates, I went for a long trip and I absolutely loved how the bike rolled. Smooth confident ride and beautiful exhaust roar. But there was no performance increase what so ever!
@@thesundayrides i'll be w8 for the new review, i hope the performace increase ! btw i really like your videos! keep going mate
Thank you very much, mate@@bgutts13 And thanks for the support! I will keep going! Cheers!
As soon as you said acceleration I knew you were misunderstanding what fuelx is doing
Now I know!
The FuelX MIGHT give you 1-2 HP, but most people do not notice any significant improvement in acceleration or more HP. As you found, there are reports of decreased acceleration. The most common findings are smoother idling and in city driving the engine is probably running cooler. However, using the FuelX Lite might make your bike too rich. Unfortunately, the Lite does not give you the ability to change that.
Hello! That's exactly what I experienced. I don't think the engine is running rich (good performance overall, no black smoke, no smell, perfect idling, no issues in hot weather, etc etc).
These are pointless mods for a slow bike which won't make much difference at all. If i wanted a faster twin there are plenty available with almost double the power. I bought my Conti for it's looks and character.
it's not pointless - it supports other mods, but alone it won't do much. I bought my interceptor for looks character but I don't mind making it a little quicker. not with these mods, but with some other tweaks
0-60 times of 9 and 12 seconds?! Something doesn't sound right
My skills! But the fastest time wasn’t the point, the point was to compare before and after.
Mine is stock and I get it to that in just under 6 so numbers deffo not right 😂
@@danielkerr4100 you are a better rider than I am!