Ashley's Analysis | A Novice Driver's Mistake
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- Опубликовано: 9 сен 2024
- My viewer has had the bravery and courage to sending this clip for analysis knowing full well she was almost totally to blame for this rear end motorcycle impact. In this episode I do my normal analysis, but I also look at the lasting effect on the person who was to blame.
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I thought my comment actually posted, but it apparently did not.
I am the cammer in this video.
Thank you everyone for your kind words, it does put me at ease actually. It was a horrible situation to be in, but I want to clarify a few points:
- I had passed my test only a month before the incident
- The cam info is actually incorrect - it was 19.12.19 at around 07:00 so I was on my way to work
- I thought the lorry was oncoming (not pulling out) which was why I didn't brake harder or sooner
- The layby is on a bend and in the dark, it was hard to spot
I did (and still do) feel utterly terrible for what I put the biker through, I cannot place any blame on him. As far as I know, he's recovering and the insurance have settled his claim. I honestly think I got so lucky with not getting any action taken against me, I was terrified that I would be straight up banned.
I've watched this footage so many times and I want to shake myself as the signs are so obvious but in the moment, when you are on a completely different train of thought, you can miss the obvious signs. Perhaps this (or similar videos) can be used in hazard perception in future or the test may need top be updated to account for different road conditions.
Hiya Natalie! Thank you so much for sending the clip and allowing me to post it. I'm glad the kind comments have put you at ease, but I would also like to point out how many people who have watched this have potentially learned from your mistake. Ashley.
Thank you for sharing Natalie!
it's not like you were driving recklessly in any way.
Even experienced drivers take some learning from these clips.
Had a couple of bumps myself in my early driving career.
Wish you all the best.👍
You were going too fast for the conditions from the outset and your closing speed to the road user ahead (that you even acknowledged vocally in the video it sounded like) means you had not enough distance or thinking time to react and brake, if that had been a broken down vehicle with no lights on, an animal escaped from a farm or a fallen tree could you have braked in time, absolutely not.
You should have been going slower in any case, acknowledged you were gaining on the vehicle in front significantly and dropped your speed to math theirs AND keep a good distance.
Sorry but kind comments are not something I wish to convey, you should not be at ease with what you did or how you go forward, this should serve as a hard lesson as to how badly you drove and that on another day could have cost someone their son or daughter, someones mother or father.
And what I will add is nobody starts off or ends up a perfect driver. As I eluded to in the video, I knocked a cyclist off 6 weeks after passing my test and it stays with me to this day. 👍🏼
Don't let it discourage you, nobody was seriously hurt. I'm probably the first to slate other driving on the internet but I will also admit my driving isn't perfect to this day and nobodies driving is. I have had my licence almost 10 years now and I had my first crash 8 days after passing my test and wrote my car off, I didn't drive for 2 years after that not through fear, more financial reasons as I was 17 and a student, then finally got back driving and got to a point where I was much better, I then had another little bump 2 years after I started again, again through me not really paying attention properly, I'm now at a point where I feel extremely comfortable driving and hopefully don't plan on crashing again, I was also on the receiving end of a crash to the rear of my car 2 years ago so felt what it was like to be on the other side, although this guy was older than me, so it just goes to show anyone can crash regardless of age or experience all it takes is a split second of stupidity or lack of awareness and I can fully relate to exactly how they can happen as I'm sure many others can, well done for sending it in, just learn from it and don't get disheartened or dwell on it, the way I look at my first crash now was that I'm just glad it happened when it did at relatively low speed and not getting egged on by my mates on a country road because who knows where I'd be, in my opinion crashing so soon into driving can actually be beneficial in showing just how it can all go wrong so quickly and gives you a reality check! All the best.
Until the collision happened, I thought the lorry was just coming in the other direction from the headlights, I'm not sure how different it is from the drivers perspective, but for me from the dashcam perspective, until the bike was almost stopped I thought it was turning without indicating, only then did I spot the trailer and what had actually happened. I can't quite work out why the cammer didn't slow as the bike's brake lights came on, could be distracted, but I'm sure she wont be making that mistake again.
I also had the same impression from the video, although I also feel I see less on video than I do IRL anyway. However, in many ways the lorry is an irrelevance since, although it caused the bike to stop, the following car should always be prepared for such an eventuality, vigilant, keeping safe stopping distances for the conditions (it looked a little wet) and slow early.
@James Stewart I was saying that I agreed with the poster about what I initially saw, but then said that I feel dash-cams often do not show the detail one sees IRL, which may be why I didn't initially see the lorry was pulling out. Given most dash cams have cheap lenses and detectors, crap is the norm in low light.
He was distracted by the headon bright lights
@@mpmansell o
Not seeing the biker, (In this case) until too late can easily happen on unlit roads at night. the driver can become hypnotised by the flicker effect of the reflective lines passing by. you can become fixated by this and just see the lines passing and not much else. this effect is known about but not talked about much if at all, during driving lessons as they are mostly during the day, and in and around the city at night. Years ago, a similar effect was causing unexplained crashes in France, that was eventually traced to the regular spaced Poplar trees that line many country roads causing a hypnotic flicker in the sunlight. Where it is mentioned, it is recommended to be aware of it and to keep your eyes moving around avoiding the "Death stare"
I think Ashley must have shares in B&Q - he gives them plenty of free advertising 😅
It’s the nicest backdrop you can find in Liverpool
also liverpool bins corp.
Didn't you know someone drove into him on that car park.
69th thumbs up lol
If thats the case he must be reported. Market manipulation is a serious issue.
First couple of views I hadn’t realised the HGV was emerging from a lay-by; It looked like it was coming round a bend. Unfamiliarity with unlit roads can make unusual or unexpected perspectives seem unreal or disorientating; confirmation bias kicks in and we make dangerous assumptions accordingly.
It might have helped if the HGV had maintained a turn signal while emerging.
Absolutely fair play to the cammer for sending the clip in and holding her hands up for her mistake. And for being willing to learn from those mistakes and improve as a driver! Hopefully the biker recovers fully from their injuries as well.
It is just a shame people have to get hurt or even killed for people to learn these things.
I feel sad for the biker. If that camer was a vehicle towing a caravan or a delivery van, who are likely to break speed limits because they want to do their jobs quicker and mostly get away with it, this could've ended up way differently! I don't know why people aren't banned from driving first thing after injuring or killing people as so many times a year across the world road accidents continue!😐
The best thing was the cammer owned up to her mistakes and taken it all on board with her driving
Addressing your closing remark, I think a large part of the problem is that passing the test is seen as the only goal by so many drivers. It is a barrier to overcome; one final demonstration of best practice driving to achieve freedom from pesky methods and mantras.
Few drivers even seem to realise that, far from discarding skills after passing the test, there is actually lots more to learn.
Putting more (or some!) emphasis on continuous self-assessment and improvement would surely improve the roads for everyone. It needn't even require formal additional training, if one has the right attitude and aptitude. The resources (e.g. this channel) are certainly not a limiting factor.
Well said!
yup you can easily fluke the test and be rubbish - watching stuff like this and constant improvement really matters, one thing I do now is check my right side when turning right for anyone overtaking which I picked up from these videos
Couldn't agree more. In fact, as tests have got tougher over the years, the priority for many driving instructors has moved more towards getting their pupils through the test, in large part because of the limitation on the number of lessons the pupil is willing to accept.
That's exactly right, I'm of the believe that you learn how to drive more after you pass your test, its like the first 20% is the test and "learning" the other 80% you learn through experience and years of driving, eventually we all get to the point where we have confidence in our vehicles and how to use and control them and then for me physical driving is pretty much 10% actually inputting control, and 90% observation and awareness of what is happening around you.
@@makavelithedon It's simply a continuous learning process. Anyone who thinks they know it all, are possible the dangerous ones.
When I was a motorcyclist at night I was always aware that the single or twin headlights on a motorcycle can look like a car further away.
See so many cars driving at night without lights on!
@@scottlaaa Got automatic everything to thank for that.
@@markwright3161 I had the old school clocks which only illuminated when you had your lights on else you wouldn’t see your speedo 😂
This biker was over to the left of the lane, could easily be mistaken for the passenger side headlight of the cammer's car, as you say.
@@scottlaaa that's so true, it used to be French cars for some reason when it started, so at dusk it was often Renault and citroens with no lights on, but now all cars seem to light up clocks with ignition.
It's good that she is now much more appreciative of brake lights and distance between her and the car in front! Also well done for sending this in!
@solo xi no, she was too close and going too fast, reacted slowly. Shocking driving and she got lucky she didn't kill someone!
I honestly though that was a lorry negotiating a bend rather than pulling out from the lay by, the motorbike braking really caught me by surprise. When I watched it back I seen the parking sign immediately before the lay by, however I wonder if there was another sign further down the road?
Yep, this is exactly what I thought was happening. I thought the cammer was approaching a fairly tight left hand bend (I even looked for a sharp bend sign to see how much slowing might be necessary) and that the biker was simply covering his brakes to stabilise the bike through the bend and they were moving left to 'straighten the bend'. I think I realised the reality enough time before the cammer did to have made an emergency stop without a collision but I confess this one would have got me too. 😕
One thing I have noticed about this clip is that you can barely tell from the footage that the truck was actually pulling out of the lay-by. As the cammer approaches the truck, you can barely tell it is pulling out, I actually thought it was heading the other way straight on.
But frankly that is totally irrelevant, she was going too fast and was too close to the motorcyclist, she drove recklessly frankly and got lucky.
@@ynotnilknarf39 I wasn't asking for your opinion on what happened in this video.
@@ynotnilknarf39 Your cycling videos don't give you much credit - pipe down
@@applejuice5272 lol, is all you got boi, weak AF!
The Gap she left was not the issue, even her speed looked within range, the issue was she never hit the brakes until it was too late, that tells me her attention was diverted elsewhere.......
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I think the problem was she wasn’t expecting the bike to stop or there to be too little room to move round it. Once she was faced with both situations inexperience got the better of her.
wrong, her speed was excessive for the conditions, she was gaining rapidly on the road user ahead, she did not leave enough gap to be able to stop well within the distance she could see to be clear, not even close Was she slow reacting, a smidge but it was her (excessive) speed differential and not maintaining a safe gap that were the primary cause.
She was an epic failure, should have been prosecuted.
Exactly right, the problem with most young drivers even myself in the past, you just don't look further enough around you or ahead, it's all 10 feet Infront of the car, I think it's because alot of newbies are more concerned about getting their gear changes right and what is happening in the cabin rather than what's happening outside 100m up the road
A lot of drivers don't pay attention to any of there surroundings (don't keep track on what's behind or beside them) and only plan 2 car lengths ahead and don't check the problems they are causing behind them (or are doing it on purpose a >road warrior< trying to enforce road rules instead of staying left)
The reaction time was poor from her unfortunately but she did well to learn from this incident. I personally think a lot of driver's still fail to realise motorbike riders are so vulnerable and that everyone would benefit from doing a CBT to truly realise that fact, I know I did.
Not a bad idea, but you know for a fact there would be about a million Karens "But I'm never going to ride a motorbike so why do I have to" like the kids in school complaining about having to learn basic maths... though in their case it's often true as they live on the dole anyway....aaaanyway...
Also the number of people falling off and hurting themselves through sheer stupidity and stubbornness (See I told you I can't do it)... I mean if they made it mandatory that could be interesting. But then everyone was a learner in a car at some point, same as everyone was new to a job, or on the bottom rung of various ladders and ignorant people abuse learner cars, and entry level workers all the time, so perhaps the 'take a walk in my shoes' theory won't actually work anyway.
I think it would make everyone a much better driver. You get such a better understanding of your road presence and visibility.
Amy K, your suggestion mirrors mine that I have first suggested over 30 years ago. To hold a car licence, a person must have held a motorbike licence. Even if it was only a provisional and they had held it for several months, at least they would see just how easy it is for drivers of vehicles with more than two wheels to become too comfortable in their air conditioned comfy chair with surround sound to appreciate the hazards motorcyclists (and cyclists) face each journey.
During my motorbike career, I remember nearly being the cause of an accident after approaching a junction I had used dozens of times, only to find out that the layout had been changed and the 'warning notice' of this change was obscured by the lorry I overtook. Thankfully, I was able to avoid the back of a car and with new layout including a sharpening left hand curve, I ran onto the grass at about 20mph.
On the other hand, the number of 'near misses' I had on my bike due to the inattentiveness of other drivers who would pull out of junctions, force me over to the left as an oncoming vehicle performed an overtaking manoeuvre (it is just a bike, they can move out of my way attitude), and the many drivers who use full beam on a wet road and 'forget' to dip, are just three of the most common errors by car, van, lorry and bus drivers.
having new drivers ride a motorbike and a push bike would change a lot of attitudes I think
@@WingNuts2010 I agree with you there . I had nifty fifty + other small bikes for about 3 yrs . Then passed car test . It's surprising how little you see of a bike coming towards you compared to a 5 foot + wide car .
I rolled a Volvo V70 (auto) in the Highlands on the way to a funeral. Five people in the car; single track road, snow and ice. The car rolled two and a half times down an embankment. I got out through the sun roof. Nobody was hurt (Volvo), but I've never got over it and that was 7 years ago. Two days later I drove home in a hire car (manual). The journey took 12 hours - mostly in the dark, with serious rain and spray. I've not got over that one either. I think I may have got back some confidence again, by first watching Erin's driving lessons, then your Driver Education videos. Thank you.
We're all human Dave and don't blame yourself 👍. Think to yourself since that time you haven't had nothing bad like that happen again. Life is a lesson and we learn as we get older and more experience.
@@zaink7037 Thank you.
I got really angry and confused the first time the clip played, angry at the cammer for not noticing the absolutely obvious brake-lights on the motorcyclist. And confused at the motorcyclist for... seemingly just randomly stopping. But then on the replay I saw the truck pulling out and knowing the cammer was a novice, it's just a sucky situation all around for someone who is new at driving. So I can't really be angry there, well done cammer for the courage and I'm glad the motorcyclist wasn't injured more!
imagining the motorbike wasn't even there, like to think I would have been slowing down to see what was going on with the big old lorry on my side of the road!
although perhaps with only the bike's lights to show the road ahead this might not have been visible.
Yeah I think if you remove the motorcyclist from the equation she'd have had a very bumpy encounter with the kerb at the lay-by. Didn't slow down nearly enough for the lorry, even excluding the motorbike.
Not only that, would she be travelling a lot faster. She caught up to the motorbike fairly quickly. I think it would of been an abrupt halt for her from the lorry!
@@Hobbyblasphemist But you can see the trailer's yellow marking lights showing where the trailer is. If the bike jaunt been there they would have been even more visible.
Personally, I had no idea the truck was turning out of the junction until the second time watching it. The bike's lights were obstructing the view of the truck's side lights so based on the position of the truck's headlights, I assumed it was just oncoming from the other lane. Although, yeah, if she didn't notice the bike braking then she probably wouldn't have noticed the truck.
In my company we deal with situational awareness in the realm of aviation safety, one of our key tools to do this is to understand the three states of awareness, we call them 1 notice, 2 understand, 3 think ahead. Notice level is exactly as you described in your video as just looking at that little square in front of the car. Understand level is the person who sees further but doesn’t actually do anything about it. Think ahead level is the person who looks ahead understands the implications and takes action to avert the situation. We also add to that the actions necessary at each level, for instance the person operating at notice level can only apply a mitigation strategy ie brakes or steering usually too late as they are at the mercy of tiny space they’ve given themselves to react. While the person operating at understand level can to some extent trap the error chain because they have more time to react. Those operating at think ahead level however can avoid the hazard by simply employing a strategy in good time so that the situation is not an issue.
NOTICE- MITIGATE
UNDERSTAND-TRAP
THINK AHEAD-AVOID
This is designed to prevent aeroplanes flying into mountains but it also works very well on the road.
Interesting.
Thanks for the insight. 👍
I've always liked the concept of 'dipped beam' and 'main beam' eyes as a way of explaining it. Your eyes should be looking where the main beams shine.
That's a great way of putting it! Eyes up
All round observation is more appropriate, but I get what you're saying. If your eyes/head are moving theres much less chance of tunnel vision and auto-pilot mode.
@@kirkhamandy Indeed. I live in the sticks and drive a lot on unlit roads, slowing down a bit in the dark is a must on some stretches. It does raise the question as to whether there should be a lower speed limit set at night for some roads.
If only I had a car that has bright enough headlights to do that...
Well, regarding preparedness, I do have to say that the current format of the driving lessons can definitely be updated. The only reason I have night time driving experience is that I work and i took lessons during the winter, so I had to. The only reason why I have any exposure to country roads and motorways is because I asked my instructor to take me out to motorways and country roads, which is extra money that doesn't really go towards the test. Sometimes we even go "idiot hunting" just so that I am as prepared as I can be. I am still horrified that I will end up in a situation where I am driving along a single carriageway and some idiot will be overtaking where they shouldn't, going the opposite direction, and I might oversteer or break too harshly and cause a bigger accident. However, you could pass the test, having taken lessons only during the day, never having set foot on the motorway or having done an hour in the dark and those specific conditions require skills that you never acquire. Perhaps adding those to the curriculum, at least, would give people a boost. Though I suspect that the better solution might be to just add automation. Humans are bad at paying attention for a long period of time. Maybe it's time to start mandating automatic breaking cameras, blind spot detectors, etc.
If you were still a learner then your instructor couldnt have got you to drive along a motorway as it's illegal for learners to drive on motorways, but I do agree with what you said, from when I passed my test back in 2007 the practical exam has gotten easier but I personally think it should be harder. It's a big responsibility driving and I think a lot of drivers could do with a refresher course. I drive for a living and I'm still learning.
I very nearly caused a serious incident with two cyclists and an oncoming car when I was a learner. My instructor was great, we pulled up as soon as it was safe and talked it over when I'd calmed down, and that moment was when I really understood that I could cause a lot of damage to more vulnerable road users in just a short space of time. I'm very glad it happened with my instructor and I was able to learn and grow from it, without it affecting my confidence in my own ability or more importantly, affecting another person. Thanks for sharing this, Ashley
@solo xi no, we were overtaking on a NSL road with good visibility, but I misjudged how far away the oncoming car was (as in it was safe to continue overtaking as per my instructor, but I still wasn't used to those speeds so I thought we would meet quicker than we did and my awareness of the second cyclist dropped off), so I almost side swiped the lead cyclist by coming back in way too early and he had to grab the wheel to adjust me. It was a dumb fuck up of the classic 'locking on' type and I'm very glad it didn't end up like the cammer's situation
One key point here is that driving at night can be very disorienting even for experienced drivers. It can cause major problems with perception of speed and distance. This can be particularly tricky on curvy roads when it’s sometimes really difficult to see your own lane. This causes you to stare much more at the region immediately in front of you. I’ve known this even on fairly significant multi-lane motorways where there is no overhead lighting(e.g. M5).
So I suppose the key thing is : do some lessons at night so that you begin to get a feel for it. Also, as risk increases with nighttime driving, just moderate the distance to the vehicle in front and reduce speed accordingly.
Modern LED headlights don't help with driving at night. Much too bright on unlit roads.
@@antonycharnock2993 Rightly or wrongly you have to live with whatever lights are currently being fitted to the new vehicle fleet.
I remember the same argument used when Quartz Halogen headlights came out.
It's also worth pointing out that a lot of car drivers aren't aware that motorbikes can reduce their speed a lot more sharply with engine braking (without touching their brakes and not lighting their brake lights as a result), compared to how cars decelerate with engine braking.
I'm aware that this isn't the case in this clip, but it's worth mentioning while we're talking about car drivers following motorbikes.
Thank you for the tip!
I got my full licence a couple of years ago and we were taught that when slowing substantially with engine breaking we should be showing brake light to indicate that to other drivers. Usually by feathering the back brake as the light will activate before there's even any braking going on.
In reality though this is something you don't really think about.
It's surprising how an accident can affect you; I had a rear end collision years ago when I was just 18; I got distracted by an emerging car and looked back to the front too late. Luckily nobody hurt just some bent metal. But a few months later I was out with mum and dad in the car and the one in front slammed on the brakes. I had a flashback and lost my nerve; poor mum had to go and fetch my brother to get the car home.
He and my dad kept pushing me to just go round the block; which eventually I gave in and did. But though the original incident was not fatal or even and injury it's surprising how its effects can remain with you. I can't even begin to imagine how this lady felt or feels. But I hope she and the motorcyclist are ultimately okay and she can just notch it down to experience and learn from it.
My late father used to say that going out with instructor was teaching you to operate the car and that "learning" to drive was something that happened afterwards. I assume by experience. Unfortunately, experience isnt very transferable. I remember getting in my car for the first time after my test and driving it on my own. It felt twice the size of the car I had learnt in and I was somewhat terrified of trying to remember everything. After a week or two, I was getting used to it. (nothing other than L plates in my day so I was aware other people were making assumptions about my driving). A few near misses made me leave more space and soon I felt reasonably confident. It wasnt until I got my second car (4 years later) that I made a mistake a lost control of it. Fortunately, only my car was damaged. Lesson learnt the hard way.
In this video I found it very hard to see the truck. I did see the bike and was thinking "...you need to slow down a bit" and that was before the brake light came on. But thats my experience of driving at night going "no no too close".
So maybe what we need while going through the teaching process is more simulated driving. Maybe paying your instructor post test to go out with you and advise so you get more confidence with doing things the right way. Its tricky isnt it.
That is what my driving instructor told me many years ago when I was learning. I have had my licence nearly 15 years and I'm still learning, I think the day that you think you are perfect at driving and dont need to learn anymore is the day you have an accident.
Yep, as described, our cammer didn’t see the situation unfolding like it did so reacted too late to the bikers actions (braking). I’m not surprised that’s stayed with her ever since. It’s a lesson no one wants to learn however the importance is that she did learn from it and that’s all that can be expected. The bikers attitude was pretty good to be fair afterwards. Thx for sending the clip in 🙏🏻👍🏻
It might just be the settings on my monitor, but watching this clip the first time I thought the cammer was approaching a left bend in the road rather than the HGV crossing over our lane. This in turn led me to expect the motorcyclist to follow the (imagined) bend to the left rather than brake for the HGV. Personally, I was willing the cammer to slow down when she was gaining on the bike even before his brake light came on (I'm a little paranoid about these things myself after I rear-ended someone a couple of months after I started driving), but I'm wondering if the cammer had made a similar mistake in misreading the road ahead, leading to relatively little time to react once the biker's brake light came on.
I didn't even see that the Truck was merging on the footage, it just looked like it was going around the corner, so at first I was really wondering why the hell the Bike suddenly breaked until the Cammer got close enough(at 0:50) that we could see that the Bike was breaking because the Truck was merging.
have to agree there, it wasn't too clearly first viewing. when the bike brakes came on it made sense, but obviously all too late by then. As Ashley already discusssed.
The fact that the bikes brakes come on, is a warning sign. You can't always understand why the brake lights are coming on, the fact that they are on, ought to be enough. Take some action and if it causes you to slow down too much, it's no big deal.
Like you say, RUclips and all social media can be a horrible place for name calling etc. Well done to this person for admitting her mistake and learning from it. Glad no one was seriously hurt that’s the main thing.
It's what the hazard perception practice should show, rather than just a zero score!
She quoted she's very wary around motorcycles now . But you
shouldn't have to be involved in an accident to be in that situation . I've had bikes , and have nearly come a cropper myself by not looking at my space some 10 meters Infront . I hit a pothole on a bend , I was looking to far in front , at that time . Thanks for the vid Ashley .good information thank you.
As an ex motorcyclist who rode for 15yrs in all weathers I will say that experience really opened my eyes to the dangers of road travel. That was many years ago and now there are many more and faster cars on the roads which do not readily give the driver the feedback of speed and road conditions around them. Hats off to the camer for showing this and highlighting the conditions that could have proven fatal. Riding a motorcycle really makes you look at what is going on around you and the condition of the road for possible hazards such as leaves or mud on the road and let's not forget pot holes! My point is that making the car go is the easy bit, the hard bit is being safe to you and everyone else.
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This teaches me something Ashley. Before I started learning to drive and understanding the highway code in my teens I thought as I saw my family drive you only can see lights on roads like you explained the camer could've been looking. I learned this a lot and all my night time drives, I did a lot at first in night after passing test, I've been planning well especially on country roads. I even noticed this in the video I saw the motorcyclist, then the lorry and the motorcyclist brake light and thought I would've braked in the video. I think your RUclips channel has taught me more and I'm glad I subscribed years ago before test till now👍
This is where I agree with manufacturers implementing autonomous emergency braking. I think the backpack (if containing soft material) helped in protecting his backpack. As a biker we are taught to check our mirrors when braking to ensure the vehicle behind has enough time to brake themselves. However this would be difficult at night with the glare from the cammers vehicle.
@@dank9561 Why is it the government's responsibility? Young people can afford new vehicles using finance. It's the responsibility of the DVSA to ensure young drivers are taught correctly.
Ah yes autonomous braking. After as some have experienced the emergency stop as a crisp packet blows in front of the cars radar, more often or not it gets switched off. I like the aeronautical axium Avate, Navigate, Communicate. Drive, Navigate, only then listen to music.
How would looking in mirrors even help him here? He would have looked and seen the car, but not had any choice but to stop anyway. There's no way you could have seen that she would ignore the brake light either.
The cammer should have reacted as soon as the bike's brake light came on. She was obviously distracted.
Even before then, it looks like they might be going up a hill and 50CC's struggle at the best of times to even break 40mph. Traffic was busy on the right hand side so overtaking is out of the question.
Probably looking at the lorry, or it's lights.
It was a motorcycle not a 50cc moped.
@@EinkOLED I see it had L plates, so it was probably a 125. Shouldn't be a problem getting up hills with the correct use of gears.
Did you even watch the video
As a lorry driver I'm going to lay into a fellow driver a bit here.
Now, I know lay-bys can be hard to come by sometimes and we obviously have to take breaks for WTD and driver hours but this is a prime example of why I never get in a lay-by on the opposite side of the road.
It's hard enough merging from them when they're on your good side but having to cross a lane to get onto the correct side of the road is asking for trouble.
I'd be feeling very guilty if that was me behind that wheel of the lorry. I hope the poor biker a speedy recovery both physically and mentally and I just hope he had the appropriate gear on.
Dress for the slide, not the ride.
Absolutely spot on and i can't agree more. I think it's poor observation from all three parties but the artic driver really needs to have a serious look at how he/she could of emerged from the lay-by a bit safer. It's difficult enough in the daylight, but without any street lights...well, the clip proves on just how poor the emerge was.
Did they actually see the headlight of the motorcycle and could they have mistook them for the camers vehicle ?
Was the road clear when he/she pressed the accelerator and had that annoying second or so wait until it decided to engage but then still decided to go, even though the motorcycle and car was approaching ?
Was the mototcycle concentrating on the lorry's headlights and didn't notice the emerge from the lay-by, hence their lack of awareness and the late applying of the brakes ?
More questions than answers methinks.
I'm not a truck driver, but I agree picking a lay-by on the wrong side, makes it difficult for yourself.
i assumed the MC was turning in without a signal, now rewatching it with your comment about the lorry. i didnt even see the trailers, and the driver didnt either. however i see that the cammer was closing the gap, before the MC was braking. there was just a lack of braking on time, which is exactly what you mention. i know when driving at night a lot of people dont look past the car theyre following, which isnt good or safe to do. so if that is how someone drives at night, they need to make sure they are leaving their 2 second gap if not substantialy more. at least everyone is ok, could have been so much worse.
To be honest the first time I saw it all I saw was the brake light of the bike and not why it was braking
I ride motorcycles, and when I was watching that clip, my sight was set on the lorry pulling out, and I too caught the bike in front, at the last second, just watching the clip.
The cammer messed up, but, even as a biker, I can see how it could happen so easily. It would be hard to be mad at the car driver, after seeing that clip.
I really does show, how ones focus can blind you, to all the other things happening on the road in front as well.
I agree with you, fair play to the cammer for sharing this. Hopefully we can all learn from this
Poor hazard awareness and lack of experience, no point being annoyed or angry we are still always learning.
I think it probably would have caught out a lot of experienced drivers out nowadays as I always seem to have people sat on my back seat they are driving that close to me!
She almost killed someone
@@raheem201231 but she didn’t and this will make her a better safer driver. You seem awfully angry about it.
@@scottlaaa Put yourself in the motorcyclist shoes. Being hit in the back at 40mph by someone who can’t be bothered to look for brake lights in the dark.
@@raheem201231 it wasn’t down to being bothered to look did you not notice the hgv on the wrong side of the road? Inexperience caught her out she was probably fixated on that more than the motorcycle, she had not long passed her test.
Piss poor driving from the professional hgv driver more than anything else.
Ever been behind a vehicle with no brake lights?, It's an education in understanding how stopping distance, speed, and visual clues affect how we brake.
I'm sure it'll stay with the motorcyclist as much if not more than the new driver. They took the bonnet ornaments off cars to try and prevent drivers staring at them, the trailer is all lit up with marker lights, the m/c dayglow jacket. To think they're going to make older drivers retake a driving test or enforce a curfew.
That reaction was so late. Only had a reaction when she hit the cyclist so wasn't paying attention at all and zoned out.
Glad she had the guts to send it in though for other people to look at and it would have been a very difficult situation in the aftermath.
Just glad everyone was alright
You make a fantastic point in this video. When I was learning, I was impatient and thought I knew it all (I still don't) my instructor told me early on that he wasn't gonna rush me through my test and if I wasn't truly ready, he wasn't gonna let me take it. He was fantastic (in hindsight) but at the time, I was in such a rush to pass.
Thankfully, my instructor stuck to his guns and taught me properly. He also taught me that we never stop learning and told me to watch youtube videos about 'bad drivers' and to avoid getting into situations like those videos at all costs.
I've been driving for 5 years, and (touch wood) haven't had so much as a scratch. This goes to show that taking it slow and steady and not rushing through to your test is the way to go. Whilst I'm new to this channel, I've been taking my teacher's advice ever since, and have regularly watched examples of poor driving, in a bid to avoid making the same mistakes. He said I should keep watching, as the roads and drivers are always changing, and I should carry on watching videos of poor driving as long as I'm on the road, to avoid similar mistakes. Even though I now class myself as an experienced driver, I continue to research and watch examples of poor driving because it helps me to expect the unexpected and I strongly believe it helps me to become a better driver.
With 5 Years behind the wheel and not s scratch (knock on wood) and I believe it's because my instructor forced me to take it slow and steady and strongly encouraged me to keep on leaning after my test was passed.
Very brave to send it in.When I could still drive I would have spotted what was happening a little earlier (probably) not as early as I would like to think I would. All I would add is that in the clip I would the on coming head lights very dazzelling and it must have been much worse in real life.
The driver was not looking ahead. The distance between the car and the bike was reducing even before the bike applied brakes. There was enough time.
Secondly, your speed at night should be less than what you drive at day time.
I think your analysis is spot on. The sad truth is so many people only look at the the end of the bonnet and don't plan far enough ahead unfortunately for this lady she found her self in a horrible situation but the lessons leaned from this will only make her a better driver in the future
Well done to the cammer for sending this in and i hope she can put it behind her and like the rest of us continue learning . The HGV may have been Left hand drive so pulling out at that angle there's a chance the motorcyclist was in the mirror blind spot as he / she moved forward . Once committed then it's safer to continue than leave the trailor across the road . The cammers slow reactions to brake lights as pointed out is the main factor to hitting the MC.
Lorry driver should have got at least 6 penalty points and a disqualification. That was dangerous rather than careless driving. Motorists get more for doing a few miles over the speed limit. The amount of experience a driver has should not come into this.
Ash your videos have really helped my driving. I passed just before lockdown and didn't really get properly comfortable. But watching your videos throughout lockdown really helped me after it. Thanks so much!
It's a shame someone had to get hurt in this instance, but I think that a lot of us who are fairly cautious or nervous drivers had something like this happen when we were very new. For me it was one of the first times I drove after passing my test: I was doing 70km/h on a 90km/h road and a car pulled out in front of me; I was able to slow short of doing an emergency stop and avoided contact but felt that was only the case because of my lower speed. That really made me understand that it's not just about controlling my car but being able to compensate for anyone else doing something I didn't expect.
I saw a comment recently on a cycling video which suggested that part of learning to drive should include a certain period of time on a bike on the road. The cyclist (learner driver) could be followed by a their "instructor" to make sure they complete the course and the lessons etc. Putting the driver in the shoes of a cyclist would make them more aware of cyclists and how it feels when drivers drive very close to them or cut them off etc. I quite like this idea.
Terrific video, thanks for your continued uploading on informative and critical videos such as this!
Totally agree with your comments on learning. My driving instructor told me off once for "thinking like a driver" and told me that his job was to teach me how to drive in a way that would allow me to pass my test and after that, I'd learn to drive through experience. I think this is too much of the attitude to learning now that you're learning to pass a test rather than learning to use the road safely.
It's one of the reasons I feel that driving instructors should be responsible for testing learners over a period of time and once certain goals have been met, they can 'pass' the learner. One 40 minute session behind the wheel is not enough to judge a person's driving abilities and I think it's one of the reasons young drivers have such a bad reputation. They didn't learn to drive, they learned to pass a test.
i rushed through my test as i needed to pass for a job opportunity. i did not feel i was fully ready as a independent driver so took on extra lessons post passing to make sure i was safe
I'd like to say that from this perspective, the road curves round to the left in the dark and with the lorry pulling out of the layby it really looked like it was just another vehicle coming round the corner. A huge distraction these days are the overly bright headlights in the dark that modern cars (namely crossovers) seem to have.
Good analysis!
Respect to the cammer for sending this in, and again respect for recognising an improvement opportunity in their driving.
I’ll be honest, I saw the bike’s brake lights, & knew what was coming, but not why. Only on the second view did I see the trailer, and then I thought it was wagon & drag / baby bender, not proper artic, so thought foreign driver in left hand drive with motorbike in the blindspot. Again I was wrong, though still may have been a left hand drive motive unit.
Well done to the cammer for sharing this. Really brave! Luckily in 10 years of driving I haven't caused an accident though I've been in 1 which wasn't my fault. I can well imagine younger me could have stopped driving if he had been in an accident soon after passing my driving test. Well done to the cammer for getting back driving; being more cautious isn't necessarily a bad thing
I think I can say the cammer was very fortunate in the police taking no action, and it doesn't even seem that a formal warning was given. Usually, if there is an RTA with a trip to the A&E with an injury and a clear responsibility then a charge of driving without due care would follow with such an accident.
Just a few sayings that my driving instructor taught me and are useful for everyone to remember.
'Only a fool breaks the two second rule', this is good for most vehicles in good driving conditions. 'Only a fool breaks the three second rule in the rain', self explanatory. Finally, 'Only a fool breaks the five second rule, when sliding about on the ice'.
"Roadcraft" and the "Highway Code" both say "2 secs dry, 4 secs wet, and 10 seconds on ice and snow.
The cammer was closing the gap on the motorcycle for some time, which reinforces Ashley's comments on focussing on a spot close ahead. Without the bike there, I feel she may have struck the side of the trailer.
I disagree that the biker had no fault. Ashley has highlighted before about 'locking on' to a problem, rather than trying to look at the escape route, but this biker is also a novice. He 'locked on' to the truck, and stopped, where a more experience rider/driver should be slowing, not stopping, and heading for the opening gap as the trailer passed. His actual stop was after the danger had passed. He also seems to have been unaware of the situation behind him, as there appeared to be no attempt to move forward before the impact. With a small bike that is slower than general traffic, the situation behind is important. Heading into the lay-by might have been an option, but requires experience and quick thinking.
In Northern Ireland you are restricted to under 45 mph for the first year after your pass and have to show an 'R' badge on your car. There are advantages and disadvantages of course but in general it allows you to get used to the road at a lower speed. We have much fewer motorways than England (and GB) so it may not be a practical measure.
Thanks to you and your viewer for sharing Ashley. I agree it showed courage on her part - and also shows the positive atmosphere you've created on the channel that she trusted you to handle the difficult subject sensitively, which your excellent analysis does.
Looking at the lorry's poor emerge I wondered if they might have missed the motorbike due to the blind spots created by their 'A' pillars and those big mirrors they have. Viewed again today on a laptop (as opposed to a smartphone) if anything I'm more inclined to think so.
The other thing I think that could have confused the cammer is that I think the lights on the side of the lorry's trailer are hard to distinguish from the tail lights of the car going away from us in the distance (see 0:46), making it less obvious that a large hazard had emerged in the path of the motorbike which would require it to drastically slow down. I think much of the bike's reduction in speed then happens *before* the brake lights come on, contributing to the late reaction and the collision. I'm not suggesting any fault there on the part of the motorcyclist, simply that I think that's what happened - naturally enough when the biker saw the lorry pulling out they lifted off the gas first and then went on the brakes.
This is a sobering reminder of the added dangers of driving at night where contrast and colours fade making objects much harder to distinguish from their surroundings. I think it also shows - stuck record time folks - that often when something unexpected from your experience happens your brain may struggle to believe it and you may therefore be late to react. We need as drivers to allow time and space for that possibility.
It's good to hear that your viewer saying they have learnt from the incident. Most of us aren't punished for our mistakes as harshly as this. It's also a little concerning to hear she says she feels 'paranoid' and that she may have lost confidence. I'd gently suggest she considers undergoing some further training or assessment to help get her confidence back - she's learnt from her mistake, been very open and honest about it and there's no reason why she shouldn't enjoy her driving as much as anyone. I believe RoSPA do a free driver assessment for example. I'm sure there are many driver trainers out there who would understand how she feels, help put her at ease and give her some practical tips to help her feel safer and more confident on the road.
Stay safe everyone.
I felt very pressured by financial constraints and also, surprisingly, by my driving instructor to take the test early. Somehow I managed to pass first time after only 12 lessons, albeit with well over 10 minor faults including stalling the car while pulling away from a set of lights. This was over 20 years ago, mind you, when I think (?) the tests were easier than today. In all honesty, I didn't feel ready to drive on my own at all and had several near misses in the first few months. Completely agree that more skills should be included in the test.
Driving along unlit roads at night for me comes down to monitoring light patterns. All the time white ones come towards you and pass on the right and red ones run ahead and are caught up slowly on the left. Any lights not falling into the standard pattern need an instant reduction of speed and consideration as to whether you need a lot more speed reduction. In the video the lights on the lorry would be moving across well ahead of your path but the absence of indicators is a major failure of safety procedure. I think the problem novice drivers have is they do not spot the early clues to generally reduce ones speed by quite a bit whilst looking for further evidence of a much greater speed reduction being needed.
Ashley, you have a very keen eye. I had to watch the clip several times before noticing that the lorry was emerging from a lay-by on the "wrong" side of the road.
I had an accident when I was learning to drive a few months ago. It was downhill and I was about to enter a roundabout and a lady hit my car from behind. This is something which I will never forget.
I wish I had a dash cam to send you the footage of what happened to me only a month ago.
I live in the highlands where the most common roads are National speed limit roads and we had some slight rain but I didn’t change my driving style to accommodate for this and because of that I taken a bend in the road at 60 and unfortunately the back lost control and I ended up flipping the car into a field.
Luckily I was completely fine with no injuries at all, but left with the mental scares of heading towards a bush with not control at 60mph, because of this however it has made me so much more aware of the dangers that can happen if I fail to drive to the weather conditions.
I’ve got to say from first hand experience however having a serious crash like that is truly terrifying and can teach you a hell of a lot more lessons that anyone can imagine
When I am driving, I am not only watching the traffic behind and to the sides but also the car ahead, the cars ahead of them and take my guessing out by watching for brake lights. Too many people only focus on the immediate car in front, I have avoided many potential accidents, especially on the motorway,
You can't turn the clock back, but you can change your future approach and learn from your mistakes, or far cheaper (in far greater ways than just money, but money also) learn from others.
hope the motorcyclist recovers well i recently sold my motorbike was to many close calls from other drivers
Even with my experience (26 years car and 17 years motorbike) it wasn’t completely clear at the start of that dark clip that the lorry was pulling out from the left as opposed to coming around a corner; of course in the latter situation there would have been no need (and therefore no expectation) for the bike to completely stop, and one might have read its brake lights as it simply slowing.
Now, obviously, the car driver is at fault - through lack of experience she wasn’t prepared for all possibilities; but she’s clearly learnt from this and will be better next time. If I’d been the biker I’d have forgiven her long before I will forgive those so-called experienced drivers who have knocked me off in broad daylight because they simply weren’t paying attention.
I usually ride a motorcycle to work and back , started wearing a fluorescent green jacket.
Those on coming lights can be blinding, in any case a poor piece of driving she never decreased speed to adapt .
Personally think on coming L E D Lights especially for motorcycle riders are a nightmare, when a visor is impaired by freezing weather, it is such a struggle the only solution sometimes is to have frozen face and glasses by opening your visor and to reduce speed.
I didn't realise why the motorbike stopped till the 2nd watching. I thought the lorry was driving on a right hand bend in the road.
The solution to this can be described in one word: Experience. I'm glad the new driver was willing to share and I hope both parties involved are okay, both physically for the motorbike and mentally for the driver.
The P plate system in the uk is entirely voluntary (to indicate a novice driver) but I'm not sure this would have affected the outcome. To learn what to do, you need to be exposed to different driving situations, in this case its a difficult one to learn from but hopefully they both do and put it down to experience.
Always takes an accident to make you more aware. Definitely is the case with me when some woman rear ended me in a que of traffic. 10 years later I always check my rear mirror when stationary ready to act if I can
A lot of the time it is good that people get into a accident not saying it is good if anyone gets hurt but but it is a good reminder to people that things happen very fast and they do drive a lot better after accidents as it is a life lesson you can't learn from till it happens to you. same with me i was in a accident last month and i now drive with a lot more care as crashing a car can be horrible experience to deal with but you can't learn from something till it happens to you and you then understand cars can not stop fast no matter how good you are at spotting the danger.
Firstly, when going around a corner, you should always go at a speed where you have time to stop if there's something in the road (crossing vehicles, animals, stopped vehicles, etc.). Secondly, you should always keep a distance where you have time to react and stop if the vehicle in front of you has to slam their brakes.
Maybe she was looking in the mirror or at the dashboard or something? I hope she has learnt from the incident.
Experience is the best teacher, new drivers will always be on a steep learning curve and accidents will happen. If involved in an accident I would rather be in a car than sitting on a bike.
Experience is essential, but it isn’t sufficient. Too many people have told me how many years they’ve been driving, or how they’re a “professional” driver (like PHVs), yet they still made a mistake they are now defending. Experience is only good if it’s good experience and supported by some kind of ongoing training, assessment, feedback or, at least, reflection. Otherwise, all ‘experience’ does is reinforce existing performance, good or bad. The absence of an incident is usually held up as evidence (seem plenty in the mirror, of course), whereas it is equally a measure of chance.
On your final thought of this video; if more driving instrctors were as consiencious as you Ashley, I think more new drivers would be better trained.
I feel too many instructors just simply focus on the mechanics of driving and getting their student past the test. The Hazard Awaremens and Theory part has certainly helped, but there is so much more nuance to it and road/driver etiquette to be aware of as well.
For some years I felt the Driving Test Standard should be raised to near that of the AIM test....
Personally I'm glad she submitted the video as it allows us to learn from her mistake.
My only comment though is that I would in that event be scanning for an escape route, probably to the nearside so I could if possible avoid the collision.
While on a lesson around about 30 years ago my pupil and I where passing a parked bus at a bus stop. Behind the bus was a pedestrian crossing where you could cross the road to head for the local railway station. As we passed the bus at a very slow pace approximately 15 to 20 mile an hour a teenage girl approximately 17 or 18 ran out fast in front of the bus with armful of folders. I believe she was from the local college and not getting off of the bus as they are in different directions. I believed she looked up the pathway and saw no one coming down under a bridge on a bend and assumed there was nobody coming. This ment she didn’t have to go up to the pedestrian crossing as she was probably late for her train. We were in line with the cab of the bus when the girl ran out and she went over the top of the bonnet like you see on the TV drama. We had both applied the brakes and I believe the car front dipping and the fact that girl was running saved her from bad injuries. My heart stopped and it was the worst moment I’ve ever had in a car until she jumped up and brushed herself off and picked up all the folders. I got out to see how she was and she talk to me like we bumped into each other in the middle of the street, she actually said sorry to me. My pupil who was not the most observant at that moment in time was transformed into a very observant and very safe driver. We all have mishaps and we must learn from them. Only recently and I’m talking 30 years later when in the centre of our city where the buses pull up in a row. I always explain to people what to look for and one day I thought why do I keep saying this and to be honest over instructing my pupils. I realise I was hyper sensitive because of the experience from 30 years ago. Going past anything where there lack of vision because of a blockage like lorries, vans,cars, buses etc I now instruct for the level of the pupils knowledge but feel myself wanting to say something. I believe the girl in the clip has already started learning from the accident as she’s gives herself more space and is more cautious/observant. Better to start being more cautious and work up to a safer level. I did this when I first started driving on my own I always had an inferiority complex and felt that if the car in front stopped I would not be quick enough to react. I dropped back without really realising but eventually I did notice and I even had a name for it ‘my cocoon of air’. I do agree with you Ashley something has to be done because we are teaching pupils to drive on open roads today at the speed limits and we all know what happens when we pass the test. I hate it when examiners say you are going to slow when we all know that everybody puts there foot down once they pass and becomes less observant, less careful and take bigger risks as they get more confident.
I hit a woman on my 650 Triumph as I was passing a stopped bus in Brighton. Dark wet night she just stepped out in front of me wearing a faux fur leopard skin coat. I had some of fur caught up in the clutch lever pivotthe next day. I braked skidded and went down. She was ok and so was I. But you don’t forget it, and like you I’m very aware of of similar circumstances. Saved me a lot of grief over the last forty years
@@highdownmartin It’s funny how you remember the very small details like I can still see the girls mop of ginger hair spread out like a halo going over the bonnet. Important thing is we learn and build up a database of situations and learn from the experiences. I tell my pupils I’ve been driving 40+ years and I still drive the same way as I did 40 years ago but with much more experience and I can predict most of the time what will happen. My pupils get freaked out by the way I can tell them what’s going to happen in certain situations and in certain places. It’s all because I’ve been there, seen it got the T-shirt.This still doesn’t stop me trying to improve my awareness skills.
I try to pass on my knowledge to my wife when she’s driving ( in a good constructive way) and surprise her when I say , they’re lost , they’re on the phone etc etc. Then sure enough a sudden lane change happens or unscheduled reduction in speed. But I’m still caught out here and there, but you keep learning. Stay safe mart
Just a thought which many car drivers don't realise is that motorcycles can slow down very quickly due to engine braking. So a bike can be reducing speed at a significant rate without the brake light coming on. I doubt this was the case here at it wasn't a large engined bike, but if you're following a powerful bike be aware that it might be slowing down without showing a brake light. I was taught to touch the brake lever just to illuminate the brake light but police training for riders often promotes using engine braking as a means of better anticipation.
I never noticed there was a layby or that the lorry was emerging from it until Ashley had to point it out. Because I live in Australia (where it is illegal to park or stop on the wrong side of the road except on a one-way street), I assumed that the curve to the left was far sharper than it actually was and that the motorcylist was somewhat overreacting.
I live in Australia too and it seems to be a horrible practice to park on the wrong side. I couldn't see the truck emerging either, but that is no excuse for the cammer not breaking, when the bike rider applied his brakes.
At least the cammer has learnt something and I hope I never make a similar mistake.
What I saw was an opportunity to swerve in to the layby! An experienced driver may have done that but for a new driver there was too much to take in! I agree that this young lady showed great courage in sharing this video!
Firstly, I agree with Ashley - well done to the cammer for sharing this - we only learn from our mistakes.
There's gonna be loads of people slating the cammer for inattention or distraction....or worse, and shame on you all for completely missing the point here!
But there's much more to it I think.
1) the lay-by is in an awful place - just after a blind-ish curve
2) the trucker made a really bad choice to emerge then - the oncoming headlights in either direction would be visible on an unlit road - most UK truckers wouldn't do this, although many continental drivers tend to have that " I'm bigger than you I'll do what I want" attitude
3) Most drivers fail to appreciate how slowly a fully freighted truck accelerates & how much the rear axles drag on the inside of turns
4) I think the cammer initially had a pretty good safety gap to the bike & the reason she didn't react in time was what I call the "WTF Freeze" ..... she was presented with patterns that weren't normal - didn't fit with what the brain expects there to be (the llights of the truck moving slowly, in the wrong place & going in the wrong direction) and by the time her eyes & brain put all the pieces together it was too late to stop.
A more experienced driver ( including the cammer next time it happens) would recognise this as a hazard and slow down, ready to brake - even if they can't quite make out in the darkness/dazzle exactly whats going on, it becomes an instinctive, gut reaction to back off & control the situation.
Any thoughts on this "WTF Freeze" Ashley?......Is it something an instructor routinely discusses in depth with pupils ?
I did a smiths corse when I was bus driving and they teach you to drive 8 to 10 seconds behind. What I find with a lot of car drivers is that they drive is that they drive 2-3 seconds behind and that is not enough to keep a safe distance. So my advice to driver is keep a bigger distance to you and the car in front and scan the road as far ahead as possible.
Also well done to the cam car driver you are brave for sending this in.
You’re lucky with 2-3 seconds, there’s a lot of drivers around here (rural Cumbria) 0.5-1 seconds. I don’t know why, they aren’t going to get there any quicker.
I have to say that as a learner driver and regally cycle for some from of income, I find that being both have helped me have a better awareness of the road. I know that as a cyclist that I have a different sense of speed and size but it has helped me have a greater appreciation of motorcyclists and bike riders, and has helped me have a better understanding of the road, e.g. how to position myself coming up to a junction/developing event (slowing cars, cars coming in and out of junctions, parked cars)/different behaviours of various drivers. I think that it might be helpful for new drivers to occasionally cycle on or near a road (if possible), just to get a sense of the road whilst feeling less pressured to go at or close to the speed limit.
You raise an interesting question at the end re what could we do differently. I recently took my advanced driving course, and is definitely changed the way I drive, but more importantly, what I look at whilst driving, i.e. checking further into the distance. The course may not be relevant for everybody, especially new drivers, as it is better to get some experience first, but perhaps some elements could be taught as part of the main driving test.
Some vehicle headlights seem overly bright these days, even dipped, and one thing that struck me was how bright the lorry's offside headlight appeared to be in the video and whether that was a contributory factor.
Just to note, watching the video, I couldn't tell that there was a side road at all. The angle and speed of the truck just looked like he was rounding a corner and so the assumption would be that the bike was going to round to the left, not do a full stop. The driver may or may not have known the way the road was made or whether there was a side road or not.....they took the blame so they must have known about the way that road works, but for me, it looked completely normal and then suddenly brake lights and junction.
We usually have signs in the states letting others know about upcoming side roads or "hidden entrances".....I rolled back the video and didn't see any of that there. I cannot 100% blame the driver on this....yes, the driver did seem to close the gap fairly quickly right before the brake lights and the incident. It wasn't 50/50 blame or anything, not saying that at all....could be 99/1, but I just feel it's not 0% on the motorcyclist, and definitely having no road markings was also a huge blaming factor.
This was a solid video. I’m a rider ( push bike at speed hours at a time feel vulnerable too many minutes on concrete ) and driver
Fair play to the cammer - these things are so easily done. As a biker, this is why it's doubly important to anticipate and avoid having to do any sort of emergency braking (not saying the biker here did anything wrong, just talking generally), because you have the double whammy risk of then being struck from behind. And, as shown in the video, what would be a minor bump in a car can be really nasty crash with a bike.
I remember I broke my own rule once and ended up having to do a really hard stop due to somebody pulling out on me (and me probably being a little over eager on the road) - I remember even before I'd stopped just praying that whoever was behind would also stop
Also people don’t realise that listening to music in a comfortable warm car is a bit soporific Especially as a newly qualified driver, this isn’t a distraction or hinderance to safe driving that she might be aware of.
More experienced drivers ought to know that when they’re tired, talking, listening to music etc they need more time or less speed to react. They need to monitor the awareness level that they’re currently in, with triggers being brake lights junction signs unusual movements etc etc
In Poland and I think so other European countries, you have to be able to show you have done a minimum amount of hours learning to drive before you can book in your test. This will resolve a lot of the issues, I booked my teat after doing 16 hrs, I have had experience driving before but not in the UK, I did fail the test but I kept driving under supervision and my driving inevitably improved. But you must be a ble to show the DVSA you have done a certified amount of hours before they put you through testing. This will also help with backlog problems.
We've all done it, not paying attention. I know someone whos "Accident" killed someone, they never recovered from that experience
I read a book awhile ago called something like how and why pilots die. One of the reasons this book gave was there is a period between (if I recall correctly) 50 and 500 hours of flying after passing your test where there is a higher risk of crashes. Basically this is due to the lack of real world experience. Under 50 hours you still have your training more in your mind. You then get over confident in your abilities and make mistakes, which for most pilots you learn from. After 500 hours you have gain more experience and the risk is less.
There is a similar situation with new driving and I would suggesteveryone goes though it unless they actively improve off their own back
Other than advising new drivers of this and they take it on board and have a mindset of life long learning, I am not sure it can be regulated.
Just an observation, when you see the lorry pull out, there's a full 3 seconds before the biker brakes. Did he leave it a little late?
I think this is mostly due to the driver not paying enough attention. Yes the Lorry did probably force their way out, causing the rider to take action. But I'd put this down to not paying attention. As DanDanTheFireman (A great channel, Basically the Ashley Neal for Motorcycles) says, she was probably in white stage. which as a sort of zoned out, just following the road, not paying particular attention to anything. I think, just looking over the bonnet in that narrow field of view if she was paying attention properly the accident still wouldn't have occurred because you can clearly see the brake light and how it lights up the road.
I'm glad she has learned from this accident, but I also think it's important to not just learn from accidents but also to learn from any situation or potential situation to see how you could do better. I've had 2 collisions, and I've changed how I approach similar situations because of these incidents. However, I've had about 15 near misses and I've learned more on how to avoid getting into near misses so which by extension helps keep me away from collisions. For Example. I was almost got taken out on a multi-lane roundabout when someone on the outside lane cut the roundabout though the inside lane which I was in. I now adjust my speed on approach to multi lane roundabouts so that I don't end up navigating the roundabouts while next to over vehicles as much as I can. There are always improvements that can be made to our driving/riding and its up to us to spot where we can make these adjustments even when an accident doesn't occur.
A great outcome. The most important thing is to learn from mistakes and that's what has happened here. Hope everyone is okay
I was always taught to "have an escape route planned ". Did the motorcyclist check his mirrors before braking?
How would that have changed anything
Could be the difference between life or death!