I'd highly recommend the 10 Very Big Books podcast. They take each chapter of each book and break it down with very little to no spoilers (the spoilers that they do bring up are pretty inconsequential in the grand scheme of the whole series), and they help to add some comprehension to the books as you're reading them. i know that not everyone wants to have to go and listen to a podcast for each chapter of a book, but I just did the chapters that I felt like I didn't fully grasp. Also, Philip Chase and A.P. Canavan's spoiler discussion videos were like my reward for finishing a book. Those videos helped me understand a lot more of what I read. I was definitely in the same boat as you with this series, and wanted to experience what everyone else loved about it, and I think that mentality is what was ruining it for me. I wanted to read it to be a part of the community and to say that I read them all, and that just isn't a great reason to read any book, imo. It really wasn't until the end of DHG that I decided for myself that I really did like the series and wanted to continue reading it for myself. Best of luck! I hope that if you finish Deadhouse, you'll at least feel motivated to continue on, but if not, I wouldn't sweat it. Malazan is not a series for everyone, and I think it's ok to not like it.
@@pzyqer6644 I went from WoT to Malazan and couldn't believe how lucky I was to go from one life changing epic to the next. I think I was lucky to find WoT because I tried Malazn first and just couldn't wrap my head round it. Came back a few years later and devoured the lot.
Wanting to love something isn't the same as actually enjoying it. I'm sure Malazan fans wouldn't want you to keep reading something you don't enjoy. Not every series is for everyone. Enjoy the books you read!
This is how I feel about the First Law series. I want to love it but I just found it to be kinda meh, even though I'm going to read all 9 books in the overall world/series eventually
I tried reading them years ago but couldn't grasp it at all and stopped reading after about 100 pages into Gardens. Came back a few years later with a lot more heavy reading undwe my belt and had the mental tools to delve into it. You just need to have faith that concepts and the world will become more solid in your mind the more you read. I'm gonna copypasta this comment for the Uploader 😅
For me this series was like being dropped into a group of life long friends that have inside jokes and you want to be a part of them. Then you realized that trying to be a part of their past isn't possible so you just have to hang on until you can make memories and inside jokes with them. Create your own history with them.
Hi. I agree with every single thing you said and here are my thoughts 1. GOTM is, IMO, the worst Malazan book and it is an extremely bad start to the series. So, after reading GOTM, if anybody is still not sure if the Malazan series is for him , that's totally fine. But, sadly, the same does not apply to Deadhouse Gates. While it might not crack even the top 5 (out of a total of 10 books) of Malazan series (for me), it is an extremely good book. If you are still unsure about Malazan after reading 650 pages of DG, then sorry maybe Malazan is just not for you. And, that should is okay and should be completely fine and you should learn to make peace with that. I would still push you to at least complete the novel as it's ending is AMAZING. But, frankly, I don't hold much hope for you. 2. You mentioned in the video that you have learned to make peace with not understanding everything in Malazan and to just let things flow. That's the best decision you could have made. But then, later you kept saying that things are not making sense even after 650 pages and you don't understand what is important and what is not. That's fine! YOU WON"T UNDERSTAND MALAZAN in the first read. Hell, I was still finding my footing even in the fifth book, and that's halfway through the whole series! 3. You discovered a very important and unique thing about Malazan. The POVs of various characters are not reliable and sometimes downright false. Just because a character thinks that A is true or that B happened in a certain way, then that is that character's opinion and nothing more. He may be right or he may be wrong. For example, John may have in a room himself when a certain incident himself, that still doesn't make his version of events true. And remember I am not talking about what a character says is true or what a character says what happened as people can always lie. I am talking about what that character genuinely believes to be true. 4. Here are the things that you should understand about DG the first time around. If you get these, you are doing fine a) The Seven Cities have risen up in rebellion against the Malazan Empire. Coltaine, a Malazan Fist (leader/commander/general), is leading an army of refugees across the entire continent for safe refuge somewhere, but has been unable to find it. The only place we (supposedly) know for sure that is still under Malazan occupation is the city of Aren, which is literally on the other side of the continent. Coltaine is leading his meagre army there, all the while protecting the refugees from attacks from all sides as the entire continent has risen up against him and the armies harassing him every step of the way. Coltaine is helped on his way by his own Wickan troops (including their mages which included Nick, Nether and Sormo) and any Malazan troops that remained loyal to the Empire. b) After Lorn's death in the previous book, Tavore is the new Adjunct of the Empress. She is the younger sister of Ganoes Paran (in the first book). The youngest sister, Felision Paran, was sent to the mines by Tavore as a punishment for being born a noble. While being there Felisin goes through the worst hardships imaginable and befriends a historian call Heboric (who was sent to the mines for opening his mouth once too many times). Heboric also happens to be an ex-priest of a God called Fener. The second person Felisin befriended is Baudin, who is supposedly a simple goon, but is tough to kill. c) Duiker is an Imperial Historian. He was initially with Coltaine. But, he also happens to be a friend of Heboric's and he wants to help him escape from the mines. For that purpose, he recruited a minor mage called Kulp. During the chaos of the initial days of the rebellion, Felisin, Duiker and Baudin manage to escape the mines and are now on the continent too, where they meet Kulp and Gesler, Stormy and Truth (all three Malazan marines). Now, this party is trying to survive and reach a safe place, and on the way they have many inexplicable adventures and meetings. Duiker, by the way, after sending Kulp, goes back to join Coltaine and his army to document their journey, despite knowing that they have no way of surviving. d) Icarium is not a human (he is a Jhag, which a half-Jhaghut). His companion, Mappo, is not a human either (he is a Trell). They have been travelling together for hundreds of years and are known throughout the world as the dynamic duo (lol). Supposedly, Icarium is quite powerful. Also, apparently Icarium can't seem to remember his past. He longs to find answers to his past. Mappo, being his companion and friend, is supposedly helping him. But, Mappo himself seems to be harbouring a terrible secret. e) Kalam, Fiddler, Crockus and Sorry (now Apsalar), from the first novel, are also on this continent. The reason seems to be that Kalam and Fiddler want to assassinate the Empress Laseen for her role in the death and annihilation of the Bridgeburners (that happened in the first novel). Apsalar is there because she wants to return to her father and home and Crokus is just accompanying her. After the rebellion starts, Kalam departs the group to make his own way. f) Iskaral Pust is a crazy priest of the cult of Shadow (Shadowthrone's cult, from the first book). But, is he really crazy or just acts like one? And, is he actually powerful or extremely weak? Nothing is clear about him. g) There is a weird event happening in the desert (Raraku), which seems to be attracting powerful entities. These entities are primarily Soletaken and Divers. Soletaken are simple shapeshifters (remember Anomander Rake transforming into a dragon in the first novel). They normally transform into abnormally large fearsome animals (like a bear, or a dragon). Divers are similar to Soletaken except they transform into multiple large animals (of the same kind). So, a Divers may be a pack of wolves or an army of ants or spiders. The more powerful a Divers is, the more his/their number. Both species are going to this event as they believe that they will become more powerful if they reach it. Icarium is also going to this event as he believes he will find his answers there. He is, as always, accompanied by a reluctant Mappo. h) Finally, the whole rebellion started because the natives of the Seven Cities believe that Sha'ik, a prophet/messenger/goddess, is going to get reborn and that she will start a Whirlwind (an apocalypse?). The natives have supposedly rallied to her and are waiting for this reborn thing to happen so that she would lead her armies out of the desert against the Malazans and free them all. Kalam's storyline gets entangled in this as, on his way, he delivers the book that Shaik needs to get reborn to her. Unknown to him, she gets killed right after opening that book. The Godess' name is Dryjhna? Phew! That was a lot and took a long time to write. As you will see, the above is a bare bones description of what is happening in the novel. But, my point is that for a first time reader, the above is basically all that you should have understood. There are many more characters and parties (like Keneb's, and Pearl's). An undead dragon appeared somewhere in the middle too, along with a ship manned by dead, headless corpses. And then there was that jade hand statue thing with Heboric. Forget all this. The above is good enough for now. Frankly, I don't think Malazan is for you. I know that that is not the answer you are looking for, but that is my take. You can check out the reviews of the first two Malazan novels by two booktubers I follow, Merphy Napier and Daniel Greene, to get a better idea if this is for you. PS Book 3 is the favourite of many Manalan fans.
This comment honestly blew my mind. I can't believe how long this must have taken you but this was crazy helpful. Thank you so much. This definitely cleared up A LOT of things! Thanks again!
I am in the middle of DHG and this comment just gave me the confidence to keep moving forward. I am having trouble remembering names and keeping who's who straight but I think I'm understanding what everyone is generally doing? I have never been less confident in what I'm reading but boy is it pulling me in.
Reading Malazan is like a fact-finding mission. You are not spoon fed and you REALLY have to pay attention to one-off lines, since those are usually the most explanatory as far as the mechanics of the world. Enjoy the journey, and in case no one else told you, the end of the series is WORTH IT!!
@@libraryofaviking As a doctoral student, I understand your feeling of slogging through the slower bits. Keep at it and you’ll start to see how all the disparate parts come together. That feeling, like a sink slowly draining, it what it will feel like when all the pieces come together. When you feel that tug of pieces coming together, you’ll discover why people love this series
Well, I have over 100 videos on Malazan on my channel and if you want I'd be more than willing to have a conversation / therapy session to answer all your questions and help you to enjoy the books...
In the Malazan subreddit there are powerpoint slides with recaps and explanations of each chapter for the first few books, which can be really helpful for first time readers
I have made it through memories of ice. One thing that has worked for me is I read a chapter summary after every chapter. It lets me know that I actually understood what I read and fills in whatever I missed.
Why do you want to be a fan of the series? As Borges said, if you dont like the book, it doesnt deserves you. Having said that, I think you are overthinking it. If you are thinking on your understanding instead of what you are reading or imagining I dont think its going to work. Its like a painting, dont worry about what the author is triying to tell you. Erikson doesnt exist when you are reading, reinterpretate yourself. If you enjoy, keep on going, if you dont, whats the problem? Anyway, that is what I think, being an old time malazan fan from Argentina (not having read it from original language). Cheers.
I read Gardens of the Moon 3 weeks ago and after reading it I immediately purchased the remaining 9 books. I'm 300 into Deadhouse Gates and what I've found is going slow and rereading anything that appears confusing to be key. Some parts I find are meant to be confusing and I'm guessing it wouldn't be on a reread. Goodluck with your pursuit, I know it will be rewarding.
I wanted to like this series too. But it was just unbearable to me. Quit halfway through Deadhouse Gates. My advice: Don't walk. Run. Find another series. Sending lots of best wishes.
I would definitely recommend that slideshow I mentioned in our chat. It gives a great summary after each chapter, but more importantly, highlights what's most important for you to remember going forward. It helped me tremendously in sifting through everything that Erikson throws at you. Good luck - I hope you get to the end of this one and find something positive in it!
@@tia_lenay here's the link to Gardens of the Moon, and it has links in this slideshow to the other ones. I found this extremely helpful in that read each summary after reading each chapter. docs.google.com/presentation/d/1GLRmiaFcxe_cGc93ckE5UItRq5rYsfeU0BhvqcaNq9E/edit#slide=id.i0
I will say the series is probably just not for you. I think around halfway through Deadhouse Gates i knew i was in love with the series and was very much so enjoying the expectation to piece things together myself and to pay a lot of attention. The next book Memories Of Ice really is fantastic but i cannot imagine someone enjoying it at all if they werent enjoying Deadhouse Gates. It just doesnt seem to be your thing, i think a lot of the things you don't like are what the people who love Malazan love it for. Theres nothing wrong with not enjoying a particular author/series
I wanted to love it as well. I read the first three books twice and got a little way into the 4th and it's been about a year and I haven't came back. I just feel like a fantasy novel is supposed to be fun and the only fun thing about it is Kruppe
I think the best way to read it is to read the first two books, and the theird book is like a bridging book, which helps it start making sense. The flaws in the characters show how individual flaws can sometimes strengthen the collective. I loved the series and even read the prequels cant wait for the next one. Good luck, and know it will all make sense eventually
It’s not fun, it’s homework and even when you get to enjoy it the sequel tells you « FU » you’re going to start a almost completely unrelated book and be confused for 500 pages again.
To be honest, I was hooked by Gardens of the Moon by the time Ganoes Paran was aided by Oponn, I think it was the end of the second or third chapter? I never experienced any problems with the series from that moment on, the mindset I had was something like: Any time I encountered something I felt like I didn't "get" it just motivated me to keep on going with the anticipation of having so much more to discover in this fascinating world. Having the opportunity to actually discover the world and its history using my own interpretations, and not being told what the world is like made me enjoy the journey that much more. I felt like a historian piecing together this unknown world, forming hypotheses about how things were, based on the information I had, and any time I discovered I had been wrong I was more excited to find out how it actually was.
Dude, it’s just not for you. There’s no pressure to love it, or even like it. We all like different things. I love Malazan. It’s on a different level from any other fantasy so far as I’m concerned. It’s not complex; but you don’t have an author treating you like a child and explaining every little thing for you. He treats you like a grown up. He shows you what you need to see. But if you struggle to find a reason to care for a girl who has been brutalised by adults, or a man who is trying to save the lives of 1000s of refugees, then I’d suggest that this series really isn’t for you.
I had the same experience with “Deadhouse Gates”. I think it took me over a year to finish it. It’s well written but the plot/story are difficult to say the least. It’s the sense of dislocation that makes this so difficult to makes sense of. Like you I had planned to take another crack at the series this year but now it’s been pushed to the back of my tbr. I thought reading 14 volumes of The Wheel of Time in nine months would prepare me for Malazan but not so sure now. Good luck!
The best advice i can give is to treat it like the dark souls/ elden ring of books, the more you understand the better you get at reading it and that requires alot of dedication, i read the first two as well and liked them but was utterly confused and didnt come back for like 2 years, when i reread the first two books i had a bit of a better understanding of what was going on but it was book 3 that it all clicked, i got erikson as a writer i had been given enoguh to put together small peices that connected and that pushed me on and by the end of memories of ice i began to actually really love what i was reading. Malazan is not really a book to be read, look at it more like a history to be studied, and there is a turning point for most people i know who have read it where the long awaited understanding of what is going on pays off your efforts in big ways . That all being said, some things just aren't for everyone, so dont be so hard on yourself , i for one hate the king killer chronicles 😂
I had basically the same experience reading GoTM and DG. I stopped 1/4 of the way through Deadhouse Gates. Reading Malazan feels like you are putting together the pieces of a puzzle without knowing what the finished puzzle will look like. I gave up because I read for enjoyment, and Malazan started to feel too taxing. But like you, I want to enjoy it. I plan to go back someday, but right now I’m still too intimidated.
Honestly, none of the series fans will ever admit this but the overall story, and especially the ending, really aren't that great and there are plenty of series out there that objectively are way more enjoyable, without being written in the most needlessly confusing style possible just for the sake of it.
The third book, Memories of Ice, is amazing! It's still a bit confusing, but definitely the most fun to follow out of the first three books. I would try that one out at least, then make a decision on if you want to continue the series.
I agree with this suggestion. I hated the first book and still do. It's harder to read than it really should be. People suggesting to read chapter summaries and stuff. F*ck off. A book really shouldn't need that. I thought the second book was more interesting. But still hated how it's written. I didn't get into the series until the 3rd or 4th book. But til this day, I maintain, that the books are harder to read than they really should be. I very much prefer Ian C Esslemont's way of writing.
I started this series in late December of last year. I am currently on Book 6 The Bonehunters. I am able to read and get the series even from book 1 on my first read. Although it doesn't overall get easier. At least for me. While I am able to grind through and I like some of what these books have to offer, it still has not got me really hooked. Like reading it is sometimes more of a stubborn task rather than something I look forward too. I guess what keeps me going is the general curiosity the books bring me. I like a good plot twist.
Whatever you do, finish at least book 3 as there the plotlines collide and in general the third book is considered one of the best in the series. Malazan is without a doubt my most favorite series I have ever read.
I think your putting to much pressure on yourself to enjoy this series lol I do fall into the camp of this being my fav. series of all time BUT I hated it when I started my fantasy journey. As I grew older something clicked and I was swept away by the tales each book told. Don't forget you change a lot as a reader as the years flow by.😅
All the resurrections made me stop reading it, when main characters die but don't really there is no jeopardy. Wheel of Time is another vastly over rated series. All dress smoothing and hair tugging, sickening.
To your opening comments, I am on exactly the opposite boat, I am totally sold on Malazan, I need a lot of help to see how the Mistborn and Stormlight Archive are fun, in what way are they fun. I don't get how this series is so popular. Do let me know 😅😅😅😅.
If you need chapter breakdowns, guides, or fucking slides then what's really the point? I read Gardens of the Moon a couple of months ago. It was okay, it felt like a videogame for me, in a good way. I actually didn't struggle with the book, I don't think it's as confusing as some people say. My main issues was the constant jumping between POVs and lack of imagery.
Hi! I’m one of the fans) While reading the book, I viewed those ‘tedious sections’, bleak atmosphere of uncertainty and fear, and untrustworthiness of some characters as an attempt at an honest depiction of warfare. And the feeling that I may be mistaken in interpreting many book events only added to it. Due to it I cared about the characters not because I particularly liked them, but because I felt that I knew exactly what they were experiencing: confusion, uncertainty, hopelessness. I also think that the author’s decision to keep some distance between readers and characters, though a risky one, payed off extremely well and reflects our real life experience: it takes a lot of time (and effort) to truly know someone. And some people/characters remain unknowable nevertheless. Probably, the text itself both in slow and action-packed sections suited my taste perfectly - that’s why I never wanted to abandon the story. Yeah, and the Deadhouse Gates is a 1000+ pages of misery and everything only gets worse) No glorification of war in any aspect whatsoever. The third book, despite some horrible moments, is much more hopeful. Don’t force yourself to finish it - do some pauses, perhaps read something completely different for a break, and try again. Thanks for the channel, good luck!
I literally finished Deadhouse Gates three days ago, obviously still very fresh in my mind. I read Gardens of the Moon two years ago and then reread it last year, just to comprehend it a little bit more. It was still very overwhelming, but I enjoyed it much more and decided not to dnf but leave DH for the future. Fast forward one year, I thoroughly enjoyed DH. I felt compassion for some characters that others seem to find annoying and mean (Felisin) and some themes felt very much close to home. I'd be happy to discuss it further but at three plotlines struck me deeply (Coltaine's and Duiker's stuff, Felisin's stuff, Mappo and Icarium stuff). As a new reader in Malazan who is taking his time in this, I'd be happy to chat with you further if you want (discord maybe?). I can't seem to stop thinking about it even through I'm already reading other books.
Hello 👋 Deadhouse gate was hard to get in to the book… some people say the 3rd book is better… I’m still going to carry on.. happy reading to you!! 📚📖📧
I... can send disencouragements. If someone tells you that Steven Erikson will explain things to you, I am sorry, they are lying. I finished all 10 books and 6 Esselmont books, and no one explained shit, haha. The only reason I understood something at the end, including some crucial details, is that because I got things explained to me by Malazan veterans or wikipedia. Deadhouse Gate was like two books for mer, the plot lines where we followed the characters I loved, even though there were section that not only I did not understand why things are happening, I was literally not being able to understand what Erikson is trying to descripe right there on page. The picure that is always playing in my mind when I read books just couldn't be played, because it was almost like it was hidden behind the secret code and I did not know how to decipher it. I just really couldn't understand what the event/actions or things on page at the current moment in time are. And in addition to that, military aspect was such a pain to read. I did not care in the least, and I did not understand almost anything from that plotline. No army moves, nor genious solutions to military problems. It was like I was reading it from under the poisonous veil that dumbed my thinking abilities. That is how I felt during Deadhouse Gate. Memories of Ice is much easier to follow, to be fair. And Erkson's prose and approach starts to simplify there, so many of the problems "on page" actually start to disappear. However, the why is never revealed. The characters were hard to be empatic about for me (until book 8 that is, but then books had a bunch of other problems imo) and there were so many unnessesary ones, I just did not care. And military aspect prevailed here and there until the rest of the series, with House of Chains and Reaper's Gale being the worst examples of how boring, dragging and uninteresting things could be. That being said, first part of House of Chains is the best piece of literature Erikson written, you will love it, I guarantee. If you get to that part. However it might be, Memories of Ice and House of Chains is where it gets easier. But I wouldn't hold my breath to be able to start understanding anything without external help. Going with the flow is a good advice, maybe, but I don't share it. If i'd gone with the flow I wouldn't have understood anything and would have been in deep shit by book 7. There are also many many good things in Malazan, it is just they are scattered over the 1000s pages of incoherent overblown prose, imo.
I'm reading Deadhouse Gates at the moment as well and really enjoying it but I also loved Gardens of the Moon so I cant't really compare my reading experience to yours. The beginning of DG was a little bit challenging because of the new characters and the new setting but I'm really not that confused anymore. I'm aware that I don't know the wider picture of the whole series yet but I'm intrigued in the individual stories. I think what really helpes me is to annotate the books. I underline a lot of things, what I think is or will be important, facts about the world, the characters, different races etc. And I mark every new character. So I can go back later and connect things. Another recommendation is the 10 Very Big Books podcast. I always listen to them when I finished a chapter so I get a recap of what I just read and maybe missed but they catched. And lastly it's about YOUR enjoyement of the books. I don't think you should pressure yourself in reading them just because other people love them. But of course I hope you will start to like them more because I have a great time reading and I really think that these are fantastic books.
I really don't see what's so challenging about malazan, I've convinced a dozen people to read it (some who aren't even really regular readers) and all have made it at least to the end of MoI if not the whole series. obviously I'm biased because it's my favorite
Keep going... you won't understand and get the Malazan flavor until you read the third book, and you even have to read at least half of it to begin to understand... And THEN is when you start to fall in love with Malazan
I pushed myself through Gardens of the Moon, but I have held off on Deadhouse Gates for like two years once I realized I would basically be starting over
OMG!!! This video is me exactly!!! I even commented on your last video saying I stopped halfway through Deadhouse Gates as well. I want to love this series as well & I picked up Gardens of the Moon again so I can start fresh BUT I have the same frustrations as you. I need help as much as you do. Hopefully something will get me past this hurdle. I think this has to be my last try, like I haven’t said that before!😂😂😂
100% in the same boat as well. Picked up GOTM this year for the 2nd time. Got through it just fine, but Deadhouse Gates just tires me out. I wanna find out what the deal is with this series, but man oh man does it ask a lot. Like I knoooooow that the first half of a chonky fantasy series first book is just like "who's that? What's that? Wut?????", but by the end of the first book I expect to be invested in the story. To know enough about the characters to care about them. It's a big ask, to have the reader wait 4-5 big books for them to be enticed and get invested into the characters. Ahh, also, if there's one thing I am tiiiired of reading from Malazan fans is the "Steven Erikson does not handhold, he has a show don't tell approach." Yeah, so do many other authors, and somehow they make their series addictive and compelling from the first book, not from the middle of the series. Aaaanyway, I do hope it will come together at one point and I do hope I'll experience the grand revelation of how amazing this series is supposed to be.
Currently reading this books and LOVE it. yes I'm confused as can be and have to read a little slower and often have to re read chapters or even pages lol. And yes I have MANY questions and don't exactly know what's going on yet but I also know it will all come together eventually and I really am just enjoying the journey. I'm super excited for the rest of this book and series because I KNOW it will be epic and it will probably be one of those series you wish you could read again for the first time and experience all over again.
What do you mean by Erikson not giving you a reason to care about the characters? You mentioned how you feel for Felisin for example and them having depth, what else do you need? Speaking personally (obviously) I cared about everyone in DHG (except Dom, Rel, and the nobles) What do you mean by it drags in places? I thought Kalam stuff on the boat was not interesting but I've talked to people who loved it.
I tried reading them years ago but couldn't grasp it at all and stopped reading after about 100 pages into Gardens. Came back a few years later with a lot more heavy reading under my belt and had the mental tools to delve into it. You just need to have faith that concepts and the world will become more solid in your mind the more you read. I've been heartbroken with grief and in hysterics with tears rolling down my cheeks because of these characters. Literally life changing reads.
Bingo, in my commotion just said… you need some heavy duty reading experience. I recommended Hyperion, and classics like Moby Dick and Shakespeare’s greatest works prior to taking on this behemoth.
You guys know this is how cults work, right? Large initial investments, so your cognitive dissonance convinces you that the juice was worth the squeeze. I'm not calling the story bad. I haven't read it. But this kind of praise makes me even less inclined to.
@@myself2noone I wasn't even praising the books at first. If anything, I was explaining how difficult they are to read. Literally the prologue in the first book, there is a sentence that is almost half a page long. With caveats and meandering concepts, just to describe a scene and it melted my brain. I couldn't grasp the language he was using until I had more reading experience under my belt. Secondly, are you telling me a tv show, game or film has never made you laugh or cry? Made you emotionally invested in the characters at all? If so, I pity you man. Thirdly, it's just a book buddy, no one is trying to become a cult leader from a fictional story. If you truly think that, you must've stopped reading after 'hungry hungry catapillar' 🤣
@@RossklesYeah, that's the point. The difficultly in deriving the "words of the master" are a large initial investment that once you overcome you have to find a reason to convince yourself that it was worthwhile. This is how Jordan Peterson became so popular. Confusing platitudes that once you understand them are fairly simple self help advice. This is how some cults gain legitimacy. Second. Didn't say that. Stop it with the strawmaning. Thirdly stop insulting me because I questioned the Emperor's dress sense. I never said it was a cult. Cut that out. I said it looked like a cult in this one narrow sense.
I finished Malazan 10 years ago and I still think about it all the time. I’m about to re-read the whole series. Deadhouse Gates was a book that I remember anticipating for weeks before I read it then couldn’t stop thinking about afterwards. I read Malazan over a period of five years (only 7 were published when I started) the breaks between books help because there is soo much to internalise. Memories of Ice & House of chains I read in my paternity leave after having my first child and to this day they are the only things I can remember from that crazy first four weeks of parenthood.
I am in a similar position. I finished it shortly after The Crippled God was released in mmpb. It still resonates. I read the Esslemont books last summer and want to start my re-read of BotF.
Yeah, I read it 7 or 8 yrs ago and it's stuck in my mind like no other series I've read. A certain Jhistal is one of my most hated villains ever, and the Adjunct might be the most perfectly written character I've ever read, Eriksons restraint of her viewpoint was genius.
I struggled with DHG a bit more than I did with GOTM. The military conversations dragged a bit and I found the writing more confusing. I also didn’t like the ensemble of characters as much as I did the previous. I absolutely loved Kalam’s POV chapters and the ending was gripping. I might end up liking it more on a re-read. Memories of Ice on the other hand was just 🤯
I can totally sympathise with your frustration. I first read GOTM over twenty years ago. It felt like quantum physics in mandarin 🤕. After a couple re- reads and a few books in things started to fit together like a massive jigsaw with no picture on the box. You learn to filter information and link things together. Being readers we are programmed to follow a story but Malazan is more like Cain's Jawbone. Why is there no companion books for this series🤔 it would make life so much easier.
As I said to one of your colleagues: these are not “books”. This is a story on that world, the history that is shaped by the people there. And that people is the characters at that moment when we observe. Usually it’s the other way: hero goes somewhere and something will happen. Here: events happen as it is a world and the history won’t wait for anyone so the people is forced to make efforts. No chosen one. So 1 story, not 10. And not MCU as Daniel Greene well said, it won’t close everything and explain everything, it will have the momentum of history what we observed and that is extremely well done. And during that humanity, darkness and hope is what can be seen.
I read all 10 Malazan books a few years ago, I didn't watch any explanatory videos or read any guides to understanding it, I just went for it. I kept waiting for a moment in the series when everything would fall into place and I would understand... everything. Sorry there is no such moment, if anything the characters and places get more complicated. I often felt like you did, wondering if I was missing important parts of the story, and I was confused much of the time all the way through book 10. I felt exhausted but incredibly satisfied when I finished the Crippled God, and I was sad that the epic journey was over. If you read all the books, which I'm not alone in highly recommending, you'll finish the story still confused but loving every minute of it. I'm now reading the Kharkanas trilogy book one, Forge of Darkness, and giddy learning the backstories of many of the BotF characters. I may at some point even go back and read all 10 books again. No judgment if you don't finish the series, I get it, but I hope you persevere and love it as so many of us do.
Malazan is my favourite book series of all time and even I become meh at the middle parts of his books (somewhere between 35% - 70% does get boring in a few of his books). But the good parts really really makes up for it, at least for me. When it comes to each book's story, I think you already have the gist of it. Just move on to the next chapter with whatever you understood. Since you are a prolific reader already, you are probably getting most of the necessary things. You will feel the fomo, I did it too, you just gotta ignore it. Make a reddit post after you complete a book and ask your questions there, the fans there are so good, they will answer appropriately and Rafo (read and find out) any spoilery ones from future books. This seems so absurd to me but i have read posts where people said they started liking the series during book 3. Like what. Personally I can digest one bad book/season of show before getting to good stuff. To go through 2 "bad" books/seasons isn't for me. Hope you start liking the book. I would love to hear your takes on some big events on this series that comes in the later books.
I read his preface to Gardens of the Moon in the bookstore and I was intrigued. Later that night, by the time Pale was over, I was hooked. Somewhere on the Chain of Dogs, I decided this was the best fantasy I'd ever read. I'm sorry dude, but wishful thinking doesn't change a single letter.
As one of those fans who hold this series at the pinnacle of fantasy, I must say that it is a work of fiction for those who want to revel on the depth and intricacy of the word, the story, and the massive panoply of characters. IT IS NOT FOR EVERYONE. Many, if not most, people read for escapism and entertainment. Malazan will service those elements only for those who ALSO don't mind the intellectual requirements of the novels. Erikson's prose is masterful and the world construction and plotting that he and Esselmont created is truly EPIC in every sense of the word. Personally, I went through the entire series as it was being published and benefited greatly from re-reading the older books before a new one came out. You learn SO MUCH MORE every single time you re-read. Very few people (I imagine), and certainly not me, feel any less lost than you do upon first read. If you're not enjoying it, maybe it's just not suitable to your tastes. Don't try to force feed yourself. Perhaps they'll be more palatable to you some day in the future, or maybe never. It's OK.
Maybe try The God is Not Willing. It's set 10ish years after the ten book series. Has some spoilers but it's like reading about some WW2 battles with only knowing a few things about WW1.
When the author decides to kill off some characters and magically bring others back from the dead it makes death have no meaning. It’s hard to feel sad for a death when you know the author could have simply revived them but just chose not to. That’s the main thing that killed these books for me. The other killer is the arbitrary use of magic without really explaining its power. A rule system is important to stop anything from happening at any time on a whim.
The key to enjoying Malazan is to trust the author and just except you're not going to understand everything that's happening as It happens. If you attempt to make sense of every little thing that is going on in the first 2-3 books you are going to end up looking like this guy 👆😂 Just embrace the chaos and trust that it will all come together in the end.
These books REQUIRE your fullest attention. Countless times, there will be a single, subtle sentence that will reveal major information and if you aren't paying attention then you'll be confused later.
Reading should be for your own pleasure and you should not force yourself to read something that confuses and frustrates you. I personaly have no problem with not being on many hype trains like Abercombie or Erikson. They are not for me. End of story
I agree! Read GotM, have Deadhouse Gates beside my bed, calling me, I want to love it but it is more like I'm forcing myself, I want to be on the Malazan love wagon! I want to know what they know! But I'm finishing up Argument of Kings and loving it. I think I'll read Kings of the Wyld next, .....and THEN Deadhouse Gates. Good luck to both of us!
You will start understanding in Memories of Ice, that's when it all comes together, then when you get to the fifth book or if you get to it, the it starts all over, but all I can tell is that this is a great Journey, I recommend you to read Gardens of the Moon again so that you understand what happened there after the fact, the second read of GOTM is majestic.
It is definitely something where you need to be focused on reading. I'm paused about halfway through book 6 and I'm still not sure what is happening. It's not enjoyable in the sense of fun, I think it's more enjoyable as in a way you'd see an in-depth, 10-15 hour movie regarding both world war 1 and 2 while also pulling in everything about the geopolitical influences and happenings, and then tossing in the ancient historical influences of the whole of Europe and Asia. Then mix in fantastical aspects, magic, races, etc. All that said, currently, my favorite book I've read in the series is Memories of Ice. I also have heard of some online powerpoint (or google equivalents), that are out there for the first 5 or 6 books that help make it a bit easier to swallow. I'm hoping you continue as I like hearing your opinions of books, but understand if you stop. Thanks for the video!
Don’t worry about understanding anything. Just roll with it. Deadhouse Gates does drag for a bit, but then it goes real hard. Any confusing dragging you encounter will be worth it.
With mazalan there is a lot going on with lots of villain and hero’s it’s not until later on through a few more books biggest villain is revealed. Think of game of thrones everyone worried about the big king or queen. But on the other hand the real big bad is the zombies. In mazalan again everyone’s wants to be on top but there lots of evils before you get to the big bad
If you're less than 2 books in and it's driving you crazy, shelve it. There's no requirement to like this series and there is a world of stories out there waiting for you to enjoy!
Sounds like you want to love this series because other people do, not because you think it has great merit. Drop the series and move onto other books, stop torturing yourself.
Gardens of the Moon was great.. there are a few other good ones, a lot of them are so boring, I skipped to Book 9 and I’m ready to just to find out what happens to everyone and every pseudo god and dragon and god
I always thought of it like visiting a completely different country. Only slowly you learn about their culture, language, habits, just by observing and not just spoon fed the infos by wikipedia:) You just try to catch some information here and there and slowly learning. Some things might only make sense later when you watch back to a certain point. I also was heavy confused with book one and also most parts with book two, this was actually motivating for me to continue and learn more as progress through the story. The ending of book 2 was so worth it and moved me deeply. I was done for a few days. And book 3 finally started to close some confusing holes and it feels like its coming together. Haven‘t read the 4th yet but hope it will continue this way!
I would point out that there isn’t really a protagonist in Malazan. Instead, the series reads more like a history book each character passing the story to one another. Maybe that's why you find it (too) confusing? Personally it's one of my favourites series. But if you find the world interesting maybe at least continue with book 3; it's a continuation of story from book 1. If you still don't find it gripping enough by then then maybe it just isn't the book/series for you. Another big problem with the series is that book 1 is probably the weakest of the ten..
Really take your time with Malazan. It is true that Erikson's books drag quite a lot, so much so that I often wasn't interested in the climax of a story (such as with DHG) when it actually happened. By then I was often burned out and just wanted to finish the book. I think this is also because I rushed the books a bit, because I joined Mike's Malazan readalong and thus had a deadline for each book. I think it's best if you take your time with them and to take some breaks in between parts or books, perhaps listen to the Ten Very Big Books podcast as someone else mentioned to get the most out of it. I read all of it and I'm one of the few who didn't understand the ending and don't find the series worth all the hassle. Don't get me wrong, the series had very high highs but also very low lows for me. Some of his characters are amazing and personal favourites. My advise: finish DHG at a nice steady pace. If at the end, you're still not convinced. Drop it and perhaps try again in a few years. If you're unsure about military fantasy: try an easier military fantasy and see if it is your genre. If not, I would not continue the series if I were you. I don't know why, but despite my struggles with the series, I am still drawn to it and I am even thinking of picking up his latest trilogy or slowly rereading the entire series. So it's doing something for me! I never hated the series, but I never quite loved it as everyone else did as well and I'm sad that I didn't have the same experience as everybody else.
Preach! A lot of people seem to be rushing these books. I took my time and sometimes it took me even 4 months to finish a book! The irony here is that I started at the same time as Mike and I've not only finished the series already almost a year ago, but I have also read his lateest novel(a masterpiece btw and much smaller in scope, so it is way easier to read) and am reading Karkhanas now, as well as plowing through Esslemont's work too. But I NEVER EVER had a single issue of books dragging or anything like that at all! Erikson PACKS every single page with meaningful moments, comedy, philosophy, etc. so it does not matter on which page I am in the book, there is always a shit ton to engage with. I do understand I stand out a bit, because I get something out of almost every page, but I think it has a lot to do with just letting go and paying attention to what is in front of me at the time.
On a first read you won't catch most things, just accept things that are not meant to be full understood. I suggest reading the first 3 books , at least, before giving up. Memories of ice is a 9.8/10 for me. Deadhouse is right behind it, the ending made me cry
I would encourage you to at least finish DG as your are pretty far through. If the ending doesn’t get you, then Malazan might not be for you. However, you should understand that Malazan is a military fantasy series and these aspects will not be going away. It is also a very bleak story at times. Memories of Ice makes DG look like a kids book in comparison. BUT. The overarching theme of the whole series is compassion. You need the dark for the cathartic moments. It’s not some over the top grimdark just out to titillate with extreme violence. It has some of the most uplifting and beautiful moments you will read in fantasy. As for the characters, you’ve probably only met 10% of them so far. A fan favourite pair don’t show up until book 5!
Oh, forgot to mention - check out the Tor Reread of the Fallen. It’s a series veteran and a newbie going through each book, chapter by chapter. It’s safe to read along with as you read the books, as long as you stay away from the comments. If you go through the chapters of DG you have already read, it will clear up a lot of things for you.
Just go along for the ride. That’s my advice. I’m only 4 chapters in on GotM, but that’s what I keep hearing, and so that’s what I’m doing. And so far, I don’t mind it. I’m losing a lot, but I’m gonna end up rereading it, probably right after the first time I finish it. It’s a strange ride, though, for sure.
I am a little more than half way through GotM, it gets much much much better. It took me a little bit to get through the first half, but stick through it :).
I’m so sick of these Malazan sycophants claiming all other fantasy writers “spoon feed” you simply because they wrote a story that makes sense. Writing a comprehensible book isn’t “spoon feeding”
I strongly agree. I dislike when people use the phrase "spoon feeding" when it is not accurate. I wouldn't mind as much if leaving readers out of context was only used to tell the story in a more natural way, without makeshift crutches to help readers. However, what actually happens is that the author uses what I would call the "miscommunication trope," but a different type of miscommunication, directed towards the readers. Why do I say so? Well, I have read GoTM, and there were a few moments where it would have been natural to let readers hear a dialogue between some people, but the scene fades to black, leaving readers to guess what information was conveyed. This shows me that the "miscommunication trope towards readers," or "avoidng spoon feeding" is partly done for the sake of "intrigue" and difficulty for the sake of difficulty. Now, I do understand that some people enjoy it. There is nothing wrong with that. I even myself enjoyed it somewhat. But I am just saying that the whole "spoon feeding" phrase is not fair. It gives off a tone that suggests you have to be "basic" or "shallow" to not enjoy it when, in reality, it is just a different style of storytelling that some people enjoy and some don't."
I agree that writing a direct narrative is not spoon feeding. It is an authorial choice just like any other. I myself enjoy this style much more while Malazan was not for me.
I think that while it's not for everyone the style that Malazan is written forces you to accept not knowing what's going on and enjoy being able to piece things together naturally as you learn the world and characters more. More you learn it, the more satisfying it becomes. But it is an active process and requires a lot of attention from the reader. It's definitely not everyone's cup of tea, and no one should feel bad for not enjoying it.
Don't tunnel vision on the small details.Things will resolve towards the end, more or less, convergences will happen and you'll get some insight into what Erikson is trying to do with this world. This is a series that makes more sense in retrospect, that is why re-reads are more rewarding than the first time. Unlike most fantasy writers, Erikson doesn't try to spoon feed you. You're supposed to be lost and overwhelmed, because that's how Erikson wants you to feel about the world of Malazan. Regarding your point on not caring about the characters, if you manage to finish Deadhouse Gates without getting emotionally and psychologically wrecked, then you should probably drop the series. Ultimately reading is a very personal thing, and nobody, even yourself can force you to love and enjoy something you don't. Malazan is and will always be my number one( sorry Tolkien), it will always break my heart and frustrate me, it will get me laughing and raging, it will make me despair and hope, and above all Malazan will always teach me the value of empathy and compassion. Go in " Wide eyed stupid" and just "witness", the majesty of Erikson.
You HAVE to finish Deadhouse Gates. I know there's somewhat of a slog in the middle, but the end of that book is incredible. I read it 2 years ago and it's still burned into my memory. I also felt like I could understand DG better than GotM. Don't worry about the meaning of the path of hands or the heboric jade stuff. I know it's hard to let go of the stuff you don't understand, but you get used to doing it.
I almost want to make a video just for you. Have tried to make a few for people that are in the same boat as you. There are things I am so sure could help get your feet under you. I am on the 4th book and thoroughly loved the end of book 2 and all of book 3. Finish book 2, 100%. Book 3 begins with a bang and us a bit easier, in my opinion, to hold onto the story. I am 100% sold with the series after Deadhouse and especially with Memories of Ice. Book 3 felt like I finally got what I thought I was going to get with the series from start to finish.
Made a video today for you and others discouraged with the series. Hope it turns around, but no shame in a series not being for you. Personally it all really clicked at the end of Deadhouse, then Memories of Ice was a top book I have ever read.
Also you need to get through to the 3rd book. Once you're there you'll be hooked. It is amazing. Also the audiobooks may help. You don't have to think about how things are pronounced hahaha
The most important thing about reading Malazan really is leaning to read Malazan. You will not enjoy reading it like you enjoy reading a - let's say Sanderson book or something like that. Because what Malazan shows you is, that there is so much more possible to enjoy in stories then just that shallow level of enjoyment. This is not supposed to sound snobby, but it really is true in my opinion. At some point within the journey, there will come the moment, when you get it and when you slowly find the things, Erikson is trying to achieve here. Actually, there are multiple of these. The ending of Deadhouse Gates is probably the first one, and then it goes from there. But know, that while reading Malazan, there will always be moments you don't enjoy yourself and have to actively search for things to enjoy. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. And both of these things are okay. Oh and about the not understanding of things: It is honestly no problem. There are things, that have not been understood by people, that have read the series dozens of times, so that is that... Some things you will understand, some you won't. Erikson will explain some, but not near the amount that you would expect from the more mainstream SFF stories. Again: That is why so many people say that Malazan has changed them on a deeper level. It will challenge you, it will break you, but it will most definitely change and expand the way you view storytelling itself. Because there is so much that is possible with this incredible medium we all love :) But yeah it's challenging. I also didn't enjoy huge parts of the series, especially the first half of Deadhouse Gates. But that changed. And as with so many great things: The sum is bigger than it's individual parts, even if some parts are really not your taste at the moment.
i’m crying people treat this series like it’s ulysses and finnegan's wake. you don’t need any source material to understand this series just use your brain and understand your not gonna get every answers in the book 😂
Here's my two cents worth of help, once you get past the second book it just gets better, and better, and better, because things that were left as such ambiguous mysteries that were planted in earlier books, get answers that blow your mind and make you go "oh shit!" out loud. So ya, just survive the first two books. Book three got me absolutely hooked. I feel your pain though, book one and two I was constantly flipping back to the roster pages and googling the names and terms of what the hell was going on while trying to avoid spoilers, but if you like mysteries having big reveals, Malazan pays off. Hope you stay strong with the Malazan reads!
I'd highly recommend the 10 Very Big Books podcast. They take each chapter of each book and break it down with very little to no spoilers (the spoilers that they do bring up are pretty inconsequential in the grand scheme of the whole series), and they help to add some comprehension to the books as you're reading them. i know that not everyone wants to have to go and listen to a podcast for each chapter of a book, but I just did the chapters that I felt like I didn't fully grasp. Also, Philip Chase and A.P. Canavan's spoiler discussion videos were like my reward for finishing a book. Those videos helped me understand a lot more of what I read.
I was definitely in the same boat as you with this series, and wanted to experience what everyone else loved about it, and I think that mentality is what was ruining it for me. I wanted to read it to be a part of the community and to say that I read them all, and that just isn't a great reason to read any book, imo. It really wasn't until the end of DHG that I decided for myself that I really did like the series and wanted to continue reading it for myself. Best of luck! I hope that if you finish Deadhouse, you'll at least feel motivated to continue on, but if not, I wouldn't sweat it. Malazan is not a series for everyone, and I think it's ok to not like it.
Thank you! This comment was helpful!
@@pzyqer6644 Possibly. Check out The Dusty Wheel. That channel is (or was) exclusively WoT content.
@Pzyqer try The Wheel Weaves podcast, it's 2 people, 1 who has read it before and 1 who hasn't, and they read, then talk about each chapter.
This is very good advice, I think I will try that podcast. Thank you.
@@pzyqer6644 I went from WoT to Malazan and couldn't believe how lucky I was to go from one life changing epic to the next.
I think I was lucky to find WoT because I tried Malazn first and just couldn't wrap my head round it.
Came back a few years later and devoured the lot.
Wanting to love something isn't the same as actually enjoying it. I'm sure Malazan fans wouldn't want you to keep reading something you don't enjoy. Not every series is for everyone. Enjoy the books you read!
This is how I feel about the First Law series. I want to love it but I just found it to be kinda meh, even though I'm going to read all 9 books in the overall world/series eventually
Go Mariners! About to visit my Grandma in Rolla she's a huge Cards fan. We are playing each another next week. WALKER is a beast
I tried reading them years ago but couldn't grasp it at all and stopped reading after about 100 pages into Gardens. Came back a few years later with a lot more heavy reading undwe my belt and had the mental tools to delve into it. You just need to have faith that concepts and the world will become more solid in your mind the more you read.
I'm gonna copypasta this comment for the Uploader 😅
@@demidrek-heyward You wouldn't happen to be related to.... the... Bole brothers would you?! 😳
@@Rosskles third cousins on my moms side… I have a smidge of their anti mage fighting ways in me though 😜
For me this series was like being dropped into a group of life long friends that have inside jokes and you want to be a part of them. Then you realized that trying to be a part of their past isn't possible so you just have to hang on until you can make memories and inside jokes with them. Create your own history with them.
Hood's hairy balls you're right
I love this!
Beru fend, that's spot on!
Hi. I agree with every single thing you said and here are my thoughts
1. GOTM is, IMO, the worst Malazan book and it is an extremely bad start to the series. So, after reading GOTM, if anybody is still not sure if the Malazan series is for him , that's totally fine. But, sadly, the same does not apply to Deadhouse Gates. While it might not crack even the top 5 (out of a total of 10 books) of Malazan series (for me), it is an extremely good book. If you are still unsure about Malazan after reading 650 pages of DG, then sorry maybe Malazan is just not for you. And, that should is okay and should be completely fine and you should learn to make peace with that. I would still push you to at least complete the novel as it's ending is AMAZING. But, frankly, I don't hold much hope for you.
2. You mentioned in the video that you have learned to make peace with not understanding everything in Malazan and to just let things flow. That's the best decision you could have made. But then, later you kept saying that things are not making sense even after 650 pages and you don't understand what is important and what is not. That's fine! YOU WON"T UNDERSTAND MALAZAN in the first read. Hell, I was still finding my footing even in the fifth book, and that's halfway through the whole series!
3. You discovered a very important and unique thing about Malazan. The POVs of various characters are not reliable and sometimes downright false. Just because a character thinks that A is true or that B happened in a certain way, then that is that character's opinion and nothing more. He may be right or he may be wrong. For example, John may have in a room himself when a certain incident himself, that still doesn't make his version of events true. And remember I am not talking about what a character says is true or what a character says what happened as people can always lie. I am talking about what that character genuinely believes to be true.
4. Here are the things that you should understand about DG the first time around. If you get these, you are doing fine
a) The Seven Cities have risen up in rebellion against the Malazan Empire. Coltaine, a Malazan Fist (leader/commander/general), is leading an army of refugees across the entire continent for safe refuge somewhere, but has been unable to find it. The only place we (supposedly) know for sure that is still under Malazan occupation is the city of Aren, which is literally on the other side of the continent. Coltaine is leading his meagre army there, all the while protecting the refugees from attacks from all sides as the entire continent has risen up against him and the armies harassing him every step of the way. Coltaine is helped on his way by his own Wickan troops (including their mages which included Nick, Nether and Sormo) and any Malazan troops that remained loyal to the Empire.
b) After Lorn's death in the previous book, Tavore is the new Adjunct of the Empress. She is the younger sister of Ganoes Paran (in the first book). The youngest sister, Felision Paran, was sent to the mines by Tavore as a punishment for being born a noble. While being there Felisin goes through the worst hardships imaginable and befriends a historian call Heboric (who was sent to the mines for opening his mouth once too many times). Heboric also happens to be an ex-priest of a God called Fener. The second person Felisin befriended is Baudin, who is supposedly a simple goon, but is tough to kill.
c) Duiker is an Imperial Historian. He was initially with Coltaine. But, he also happens to be a friend of Heboric's and he wants to help him escape from the mines. For that purpose, he recruited a minor mage called Kulp. During the chaos of the initial days of the rebellion, Felisin, Duiker and Baudin manage to escape the mines and are now on the continent too, where they meet Kulp and Gesler, Stormy and Truth (all three Malazan marines). Now, this party is trying to survive and reach a safe place, and on the way they have many inexplicable adventures and meetings. Duiker, by the way, after sending Kulp, goes back to join Coltaine and his army to document their journey, despite knowing that they have no way of surviving.
d) Icarium is not a human (he is a Jhag, which a half-Jhaghut). His companion, Mappo, is not a human either (he is a Trell). They have been travelling together for hundreds of years and are known throughout the world as the dynamic duo (lol). Supposedly, Icarium is quite powerful. Also, apparently Icarium can't seem to remember his past. He longs to find answers to his past. Mappo, being his companion and friend, is supposedly helping him. But, Mappo himself seems to be harbouring a terrible secret.
e) Kalam, Fiddler, Crockus and Sorry (now Apsalar), from the first novel, are also on this continent. The reason seems to be that Kalam and Fiddler want to assassinate the Empress Laseen for her role in the death and annihilation of the Bridgeburners (that happened in the first novel). Apsalar is there because she wants to return to her father and home and Crokus is just accompanying her. After the rebellion starts, Kalam departs the group to make his own way.
f) Iskaral Pust is a crazy priest of the cult of Shadow (Shadowthrone's cult, from the first book). But, is he really crazy or just acts like one? And, is he actually powerful or extremely weak? Nothing is clear about him.
g) There is a weird event happening in the desert (Raraku), which seems to be attracting powerful entities. These entities are primarily Soletaken and Divers. Soletaken are simple shapeshifters (remember Anomander Rake transforming into a dragon in the first novel). They normally transform into abnormally large fearsome animals (like a bear, or a dragon). Divers are similar to Soletaken except they transform into multiple large animals (of the same kind). So, a Divers may be a pack of wolves or an army of ants or spiders. The more powerful a Divers is, the more his/their number. Both species are going to this event as they believe that they will become more powerful if they reach it. Icarium is also going to this event as he believes he will find his answers there. He is, as always, accompanied by a reluctant Mappo.
h) Finally, the whole rebellion started because the natives of the Seven Cities believe that Sha'ik, a prophet/messenger/goddess, is going to get reborn and that she will start a Whirlwind (an apocalypse?). The natives have supposedly rallied to her and are waiting for this reborn thing to happen so that she would lead her armies out of the desert against the Malazans and free them all. Kalam's storyline gets entangled in this as, on his way, he delivers the book that Shaik needs to get reborn to her. Unknown to him, she gets killed right after opening that book. The Godess' name is Dryjhna?
Phew! That was a lot and took a long time to write. As you will see, the above is a bare bones description of what is happening in the novel. But, my point is that for a first time reader, the above is basically all that you should have understood. There are many more characters and parties (like Keneb's, and Pearl's). An undead dragon appeared somewhere in the middle too, along with a ship manned by dead, headless corpses. And then there was that jade hand statue thing with Heboric. Forget all this. The above is good enough for now.
Frankly, I don't think Malazan is for you. I know that that is not the answer you are looking for, but that is my take. You can check out the reviews of the first two Malazan novels by two booktubers I follow, Merphy Napier and Daniel Greene, to get a better idea if this is for you.
PS Book 3 is the favourite of many Manalan fans.
This comment honestly blew my mind. I can't believe how long this must have taken you but this was crazy helpful.
Thank you so much. This definitely cleared up A LOT of things! Thanks again!
I am in the middle of DHG and this comment just gave me the confidence to keep moving forward. I am having trouble remembering names and keeping who's who straight but I think I'm understanding what everyone is generally doing? I have never been less confident in what I'm reading but boy is it pulling me in.
Reading Malazan is like a fact-finding mission. You are not spoon fed and you REALLY have to pay attention to one-off lines, since those are usually the most explanatory as far as the mechanics of the world. Enjoy the journey, and in case no one else told you, the end of the series is WORTH IT!!
Thanks for the tips! I will try my best to get to the end!
@@libraryofaviking As a doctoral student, I understand your feeling of slogging through the slower bits. Keep at it and you’ll start to see how all the disparate parts come together. That feeling, like a sink slowly draining, it what it will feel like when all the pieces come together. When you feel that tug of pieces coming together, you’ll discover why people love this series
Well, I have over 100 videos on Malazan on my channel and if you want I'd be more than willing to have a conversation / therapy session to answer all your questions and help you to enjoy the books...
In the Malazan subreddit there are powerpoint slides with recaps and explanations of each chapter for the first few books, which can be really helpful for first time readers
I have made it through memories of ice. One thing that has worked for me is I read a chapter summary after every chapter. It lets me know that I actually understood what I read and fills in whatever I missed.
Why do you want to be a fan of the series? As Borges said, if you dont like the book, it doesnt deserves you.
Having said that, I think you are overthinking it. If you are thinking on your understanding instead of what you are reading or imagining I dont think its going to work. Its like a painting, dont worry about what the author is triying to tell you. Erikson doesnt exist when you are reading, reinterpretate yourself. If you enjoy, keep on going, if you dont, whats the problem?
Anyway, that is what I think, being an old time malazan fan from Argentina (not having read it from original language).
Cheers.
I read Gardens of the Moon 3 weeks ago and after reading it I immediately purchased the remaining 9 books. I'm 300 into Deadhouse Gates and what I've found is going slow and rereading anything that appears confusing to be key. Some parts I find are meant to be confusing and I'm guessing it wouldn't be on a reread. Goodluck with your pursuit, I know it will be rewarding.
You are about to witness the greatest literary experience of your life!
I wanted to like this series too. But it was just unbearable to me. Quit halfway through Deadhouse Gates.
My advice: Don't walk. Run. Find another series.
Sending lots of best wishes.
I would definitely recommend that slideshow I mentioned in our chat. It gives a great summary after each chapter, but more importantly, highlights what's most important for you to remember going forward. It helped me tremendously in sifting through everything that Erikson throws at you. Good luck - I hope you get to the end of this one and find something positive in it!
what slideshow is this? I am reading this book now and LOVE it but could use some help lol
@@tia_lenay here's the link to Gardens of the Moon, and it has links in this slideshow to the other ones. I found this extremely helpful in that read each summary after reading each chapter. docs.google.com/presentation/d/1GLRmiaFcxe_cGc93ckE5UItRq5rYsfeU0BhvqcaNq9E/edit#slide=id.i0
@@RedFuryBooks thanks so much!!
I cant see the slideshow anymore?! Was it deleted by you?
@@tia_lenay I just tried the link and it still works. Try again I guess?
I will say the series is probably just not for you. I think around halfway through Deadhouse Gates i knew i was in love with the series and was very much so enjoying the expectation to piece things together myself and to pay a lot of attention. The next book Memories Of Ice really is fantastic but i cannot imagine someone enjoying it at all if they werent enjoying Deadhouse Gates. It just doesnt seem to be your thing, i think a lot of the things you don't like are what the people who love Malazan love it for. Theres nothing wrong with not enjoying a particular author/series
I wanted to love it as well. I read the first three books twice and got a little way into the 4th and it's been about a year and I haven't came back. I just feel like a fantasy novel is supposed to be fun and the only fun thing about it is Kruppe
I think the best way to read it is to read the first two books, and the theird book is like a bridging book, which helps it start making sense. The flaws in the characters show how individual flaws can sometimes strengthen the collective. I loved the series and even read the prequels cant wait for the next one. Good luck, and know it will all make sense eventually
It’s not fun, it’s homework and even when you get to enjoy it the sequel tells you « FU » you’re going to start a almost completely unrelated book and be confused for 500 pages again.
To be honest, I was hooked by Gardens of the Moon by the time Ganoes Paran was aided by Oponn, I think it was the end of the second or third chapter? I never experienced any problems with the series from that moment on, the mindset I had was something like:
Any time I encountered something I felt like I didn't "get" it just motivated me to keep on going with the anticipation of having so much more to discover in this fascinating world. Having the opportunity to actually discover the world and its history using my own interpretations, and not being told what the world is like made me enjoy the journey that much more. I felt like a historian piecing together this unknown world, forming hypotheses about how things were, based on the information I had, and any time I discovered I had been wrong I was more excited to find out how it actually was.
Dude, if you’re not enjoying it, stop reading it. There is not trophy for reading Malazan or anything
Dude, it’s just not for you. There’s no pressure to love it, or even like it. We all like different things. I love Malazan. It’s on a different level from any other fantasy so far as I’m concerned. It’s not complex; but you don’t have an author treating you like a child and explaining every little thing for you. He treats you like a grown up. He shows you what you need to see.
But if you struggle to find a reason to care for a girl who has been brutalised by adults, or a man who is trying to save the lives of 1000s of refugees, then I’d suggest that this series really isn’t for you.
I had the same experience with “Deadhouse Gates”. I think it took me over a year to finish it. It’s well written but the plot/story are difficult to say the least. It’s the sense of dislocation that makes this so difficult to makes sense of. Like you I had planned to take another crack at the series this year but now it’s been pushed to the back of my tbr. I thought reading 14 volumes of The Wheel of Time in nine months would prepare me for Malazan but not so sure now. Good luck!
The best advice i can give is to treat it like the dark souls/ elden ring of books, the more you understand the better you get at reading it and that requires alot of dedication, i read the first two as well and liked them but was utterly confused and didnt come back for like 2 years, when i reread the first two books i had a bit of a better understanding of what was going on but it was book 3 that it all clicked, i got erikson as a writer i had been given enoguh to put together small peices that connected and that pushed me on and by the end of memories of ice i began to actually really love what i was reading. Malazan is not really a book to be read, look at it more like a history to be studied, and there is a turning point for most people i know who have read it where the long awaited understanding of what is going on pays off your efforts in big ways . That all being said, some things just aren't for everyone, so dont be so hard on yourself , i for one hate the king killer chronicles 😂
I had basically the same experience reading GoTM and DG. I stopped 1/4 of the way through Deadhouse Gates. Reading Malazan feels like you are putting together the pieces of a puzzle without knowing what the finished puzzle will look like.
I gave up because I read for enjoyment, and Malazan started to feel too taxing. But like you, I want to enjoy it. I plan to go back someday, but right now I’m still too intimidated.
Honestly, none of the series fans will ever admit this but the overall story, and especially the ending, really aren't that great and there are plenty of series out there that objectively are way more enjoyable, without being written in the most needlessly confusing style possible just for the sake of it.
The third book, Memories of Ice, is amazing! It's still a bit confusing, but definitely the most fun to follow out of the first three books. I would try that one out at least, then make a decision on if you want to continue the series.
I agree with this suggestion. I hated the first book and still do. It's harder to read than it really should be. People suggesting to read chapter summaries and stuff. F*ck off. A book really shouldn't need that.
I thought the second book was more interesting. But still hated how it's written.
I didn't get into the series until the 3rd or 4th book. But til this day, I maintain, that the books are harder to read than they really should be. I very much prefer Ian C Esslemont's way of writing.
I started this series in late December of last year.
I am currently on Book 6 The Bonehunters.
I am able to read and get the series even from book 1 on my first read.
Although it doesn't overall get easier. At least for me.
While I am able to grind through and I like some of what these books have to offer, it still has not got me really hooked. Like reading it is sometimes more of a stubborn task rather than something I look forward too.
I guess what keeps me going is the general curiosity the books bring me. I like a good plot twist.
Whatever you do, finish at least book 3 as there the plotlines collide and in general the third book is considered one of the best in the series. Malazan is without a doubt my most favorite series I have ever read.
I think your putting to much pressure on yourself to enjoy this series lol I do fall into the camp of this being my fav. series of all time BUT I hated it when I started my fantasy journey. As I grew older something clicked and I was swept away by the tales each book told.
Don't forget you change a lot as a reader as the years flow by.😅
I agree with you, I find his work too convoluted and I am lost.
All the resurrections made me stop reading it, when main characters die but don't really there is no jeopardy. Wheel of Time is another vastly over rated series. All dress smoothing and hair tugging, sickening.
To your opening comments, I am on exactly the opposite boat, I am totally sold on Malazan, I need a lot of help to see how the Mistborn and Stormlight Archive are fun, in what way are they fun. I don't get how this series is so popular. Do let me know 😅😅😅😅.
keep moving forward...even if you die...even after you die
If you need chapter breakdowns, guides, or fucking slides then what's really the point? I read Gardens of the Moon a couple of months ago. It was okay, it felt like a videogame for me, in a good way. I actually didn't struggle with the book, I don't think it's as confusing as some people say. My main issues was the constant jumping between POVs and lack of imagery.
Hi! I’m one of the fans) While reading the book, I viewed those ‘tedious sections’, bleak atmosphere of uncertainty and fear, and untrustworthiness of some characters as an attempt at an honest depiction of warfare. And the feeling that I may be mistaken in interpreting many book events only added to it. Due to it I cared about the characters not because I particularly liked them, but because I felt that I knew exactly what they were experiencing: confusion, uncertainty, hopelessness. I also think that the author’s decision to keep some distance between readers and characters, though a risky one, payed off extremely well and reflects our real life experience: it takes a lot of time (and effort) to truly know someone. And some people/characters remain unknowable nevertheless.
Probably, the text itself both in slow and action-packed sections suited my taste perfectly - that’s why I never wanted to abandon the story. Yeah, and the Deadhouse Gates is a 1000+ pages of misery and everything only gets worse) No glorification of war in any aspect whatsoever. The third book, despite some horrible moments, is much more hopeful.
Don’t force yourself to finish it - do some pauses, perhaps read something completely different for a break, and try again.
Thanks for the channel, good luck!
read some philosophy, man (Kant, Fichte, Schelling, Hegel, Bergson, Wittgenstein, Heidegger, Kripke, Derrida). expand your conceptual palette.
I literally finished Deadhouse Gates three days ago, obviously still very fresh in my mind.
I read Gardens of the Moon two years ago and then reread it last year, just to comprehend it a little bit more. It was still very overwhelming, but I enjoyed it much more and decided not to dnf but leave DH for the future. Fast forward one year, I thoroughly enjoyed DH. I felt compassion for some characters that others seem to find annoying and mean (Felisin) and some themes felt very much close to home.
I'd be happy to discuss it further but at three plotlines struck me deeply (Coltaine's and Duiker's stuff, Felisin's stuff, Mappo and Icarium stuff).
As a new reader in Malazan who is taking his time in this, I'd be happy to chat with you further if you want (discord maybe?). I can't seem to stop thinking about it even through I'm already reading other books.
Hello 👋 Deadhouse gate was hard to get in to the book… some people say the 3rd book is better… I’m still going to carry on.. happy reading to you!! 📚📖📧
I stopped (for now) after book 3. It was good, but not worth the struggle
I struggled through the middle of DHG, the ending was mind blowing though definitely worth pushing through
I... can send disencouragements. If someone tells you that Steven Erikson will explain things to you, I am sorry, they are lying. I finished all 10 books and 6 Esselmont books, and no one explained shit, haha. The only reason I understood something at the end, including some crucial details, is that because I got things explained to me by Malazan veterans or wikipedia. Deadhouse Gate was like two books for mer, the plot lines where we followed the characters I loved, even though there were section that not only I did not understand why things are happening, I was literally not being able to understand what Erikson is trying to descripe right there on page. The picure that is always playing in my mind when I read books just couldn't be played, because it was almost like it was hidden behind the secret code and I did not know how to decipher it. I just really couldn't understand what the event/actions or things on page at the current moment in time are. And in addition to that, military aspect was such a pain to read. I did not care in the least, and I did not understand almost anything from that plotline. No army moves, nor genious solutions to military problems. It was like I was reading it from under the poisonous veil that dumbed my thinking abilities. That is how I felt during Deadhouse Gate.
Memories of Ice is much easier to follow, to be fair. And Erkson's prose and approach starts to simplify there, so many of the problems "on page" actually start to disappear. However, the why is never revealed. The characters were hard to be empatic about for me (until book 8 that is, but then books had a bunch of other problems imo) and there were so many unnessesary ones, I just did not care. And military aspect prevailed here and there until the rest of the series, with House of Chains and Reaper's Gale being the worst examples of how boring, dragging and uninteresting things could be. That being said, first part of House of Chains is the best piece of literature Erikson written, you will love it, I guarantee. If you get to that part.
However it might be, Memories of Ice and House of Chains is where it gets easier. But I wouldn't hold my breath to be able to start understanding anything without external help. Going with the flow is a good advice, maybe, but I don't share it. If i'd gone with the flow I wouldn't have understood anything and would have been in deep shit by book 7. There are also many many good things in Malazan, it is just they are scattered over the 1000s pages of incoherent overblown prose, imo.
I'm reading Deadhouse Gates at the moment as well and really enjoying it but I also loved Gardens of the Moon so I cant't really compare my reading experience to yours. The beginning of DG was a little bit challenging because of the new characters and the new setting but I'm really not that confused anymore. I'm aware that I don't know the wider picture of the whole series yet but I'm intrigued in the individual stories. I think what really helpes me is to annotate the books. I underline a lot of things, what I think is or will be important, facts about the world, the characters, different races etc. And I mark every new character. So I can go back later and connect things. Another recommendation is the 10 Very Big Books podcast. I always listen to them when I finished a chapter so I get a recap of what I just read and maybe missed but they catched. And lastly it's about YOUR enjoyement of the books. I don't think you should pressure yourself in reading them just because other people love them. But of course I hope you will start to like them more because I have a great time reading and I really think that these are fantastic books.
I really don't see what's so challenging about malazan, I've convinced a dozen people to read it (some who aren't even really regular readers) and all have made it at least to the end of MoI if not the whole series.
obviously I'm biased because it's my favorite
Keep going... you won't understand and get the Malazan flavor until you read the third book, and you even have to read at least half of it to begin to understand... And THEN is when you start to fall in love with Malazan
I pushed myself through Gardens of the Moon, but I have held off on Deadhouse Gates for like two years once I realized I would basically be starting over
I have DNF this series but am thinking to restart this series since many say it is so so … good. 🤔😥
OMG!!! This video is me exactly!!! I even commented on your last video saying I stopped halfway through Deadhouse Gates as well. I want to love this series as well & I picked up Gardens of the Moon again so I can start fresh BUT I have the same frustrations as you. I need help as much as you do. Hopefully something will get me past this hurdle. I think this has to be my last try, like I haven’t said that before!😂😂😂
100% in the same boat as well. Picked up GOTM this year for the 2nd time. Got through it just fine, but Deadhouse Gates just tires me out. I wanna find out what the deal is with this series, but man oh man does it ask a lot.
Like I knoooooow that the first half of a chonky fantasy series first book is just like "who's that? What's that? Wut?????", but by the end of the first book I expect to be invested in the story. To know enough about the characters to care about them.
It's a big ask, to have the reader wait 4-5 big books for them to be enticed and get invested into the characters.
Ahh, also, if there's one thing I am tiiiired of reading from Malazan fans is the "Steven Erikson does not handhold, he has a show don't tell approach."
Yeah, so do many other authors, and somehow they make their series addictive and compelling from the first book, not from the middle of the series.
Aaaanyway, I do hope it will come together at one point and I do hope I'll experience the grand revelation of how amazing this series is supposed to be.
Currently reading this books and LOVE it. yes I'm confused as can be and have to read a little slower and often have to re read chapters or even pages lol. And yes I have MANY questions and don't exactly know what's going on yet but I also know it will all come together eventually and I really am just enjoying the journey. I'm super excited for the rest of this book and series because I KNOW it will be epic and it will probably be one of those series you wish you could read again for the first time and experience all over again.
What do you mean by Erikson not giving you a reason to care about the characters? You mentioned how you feel for Felisin for example and them having depth, what else do you need?
Speaking personally (obviously) I cared about everyone in DHG (except Dom, Rel, and the nobles)
What do you mean by it drags in places? I thought Kalam stuff on the boat was not interesting but I've talked to people who loved it.
I tried reading them years ago but couldn't grasp it at all and stopped reading after about 100 pages into Gardens. Came back a few years later with a lot more heavy reading under my belt and had the mental tools to delve into it. You just need to have faith that concepts and the world will become more solid in your mind the more you read.
I've been heartbroken with grief and in hysterics with tears rolling down my cheeks because of these characters.
Literally life changing reads.
Bingo, in my commotion just said… you need some heavy duty reading experience. I recommended Hyperion, and classics like Moby Dick and Shakespeare’s greatest works prior to taking on this behemoth.
You guys know this is how cults work, right? Large initial investments, so your cognitive dissonance convinces you that the juice was worth the squeeze.
I'm not calling the story bad. I haven't read it. But this kind of praise makes me even less inclined to.
@@myself2noone I wasn't even praising the books at first. If anything, I was explaining how difficult they are to read.
Literally the prologue in the first book, there is a sentence that is almost half a page long. With caveats and meandering concepts, just to describe a scene and it melted my brain. I couldn't grasp the language he was using until I had more reading experience under my belt.
Secondly, are you telling me a tv show, game or film has never made you laugh or cry? Made you emotionally invested in the characters at all? If so, I pity you man.
Thirdly, it's just a book buddy, no one is trying to become a cult leader from a fictional story. If you truly think that, you must've stopped reading after 'hungry hungry catapillar' 🤣
@@RossklesYeah, that's the point. The difficultly in deriving the "words of the master" are a large initial investment that once you overcome you have to find a reason to convince yourself that it was worthwhile. This is how Jordan Peterson became so popular. Confusing platitudes that once you understand them are fairly simple self help advice. This is how some cults gain legitimacy.
Second. Didn't say that. Stop it with the strawmaning.
Thirdly stop insulting me because I questioned the Emperor's dress sense. I never said it was a cult. Cut that out. I said it looked like a cult in this one narrow sense.
I finished Malazan 10 years ago and I still think about it all the time. I’m about to re-read the whole series. Deadhouse Gates was a book that I remember anticipating for weeks before I read it then couldn’t stop thinking about afterwards. I read Malazan over a period of five years (only 7 were published when I started) the breaks between books help because there is soo much to internalise. Memories of Ice & House of chains I read in my paternity leave after having my first child and to this day they are the only things I can remember from that crazy first four weeks of parenthood.
I am in a similar position. I finished it shortly after The Crippled God was released in mmpb. It still resonates. I read the Esslemont books last summer and want to start my re-read of BotF.
Yeah, I read it 7 or 8 yrs ago and it's stuck in my mind like no other series I've read. A certain Jhistal is one of my most hated villains ever, and the Adjunct might be the most perfectly written character I've ever read, Eriksons restraint of her viewpoint was genius.
I struggled with DHG a bit more than I did with GOTM. The military conversations dragged a bit and I found the writing more confusing. I also didn’t like the ensemble of characters as much as I did the previous. I absolutely loved Kalam’s POV chapters and the ending was gripping. I might end up liking it more on a re-read. Memories of Ice on the other hand was just 🤯
I can totally sympathise with your frustration. I first read GOTM over twenty years ago. It felt like quantum physics in mandarin 🤕. After a couple re- reads and a few books in things started to fit together like a massive jigsaw with no picture on the box. You learn to filter information and link things together. Being readers we are programmed to follow a story but Malazan is more like Cain's Jawbone. Why is there no companion books for this series🤔 it would make life so much easier.
As I said to one of your colleagues: these are not “books”. This is a story on that world, the history that is shaped by the people there. And that people is the characters at that moment when we observe. Usually it’s the other way: hero goes somewhere and something will happen. Here: events happen as it is a world and the history won’t wait for anyone so the people is forced to make efforts. No chosen one. So 1 story, not 10. And not MCU as Daniel Greene well said, it won’t close everything and explain everything, it will have the momentum of history what we observed and that is extremely well done. And during that humanity, darkness and hope is what can be seen.
I read all 10 Malazan books a few years ago, I didn't watch any explanatory videos or read any guides to understanding it, I just went for it. I kept waiting for a moment in the series when everything would fall into place and I would understand... everything. Sorry there is no such moment, if anything the characters and places get more complicated. I often felt like you did, wondering if I was missing important parts of the story, and I was confused much of the time all the way through book 10.
I felt exhausted but incredibly satisfied when I finished the Crippled God, and I was sad that the epic journey was over. If you read all the books, which I'm not alone in highly recommending, you'll finish the story still confused but loving every minute of it. I'm now reading the Kharkanas trilogy book one, Forge of Darkness, and giddy learning the backstories of many of the BotF characters. I may at some point even go back and read all 10 books again. No judgment if you don't finish the series, I get it, but I hope you persevere and love it as so many of us do.
Malazan is my favourite book series of all time and even I become meh at the middle parts of his books (somewhere between 35% - 70% does get boring in a few of his books). But the good parts really really makes up for it, at least for me.
When it comes to each book's story, I think you already have the gist of it. Just move on to the next chapter with whatever you understood. Since you are a prolific reader already, you are probably getting most of the necessary things. You will feel the fomo, I did it too, you just gotta ignore it. Make a reddit post after you complete a book and ask your questions there, the fans there are so good, they will answer appropriately and Rafo (read and find out) any spoilery ones from future books.
This seems so absurd to me but i have read posts where people said they started liking the series during book 3. Like what. Personally I can digest one bad book/season of show before getting to good stuff. To go through 2 "bad" books/seasons isn't for me.
Hope you start liking the book. I would love to hear your takes on some big events on this series that comes in the later books.
I read his preface to Gardens of the Moon in the bookstore and I was intrigued. Later that night, by the time Pale was over, I was hooked. Somewhere on the Chain of Dogs, I decided this was the best fantasy I'd ever read. I'm sorry dude, but wishful thinking doesn't change a single letter.
As one of those fans who hold this series at the pinnacle of fantasy, I must say that it is a work of fiction for those who want to revel on the depth and intricacy of the word, the story, and the massive panoply of characters. IT IS NOT FOR EVERYONE. Many, if not most, people read for escapism and entertainment. Malazan will service those elements only for those who ALSO don't mind the intellectual requirements of the novels.
Erikson's prose is masterful and the world construction and plotting that he and Esselmont created is truly EPIC in every sense of the word. Personally, I went through the entire series as it was being published and benefited greatly from re-reading the older books before a new one came out. You learn SO MUCH MORE every single time you re-read. Very few people (I imagine), and certainly not me, feel any less lost than you do upon first read.
If you're not enjoying it, maybe it's just not suitable to your tastes. Don't try to force feed yourself. Perhaps they'll be more palatable to you some day in the future, or maybe never. It's OK.
Maybe try The God is Not Willing. It's set 10ish years after the ten book series. Has some spoilers but it's like reading about some WW2 battles with only knowing a few things about WW1.
When the author decides to kill off some characters and magically bring others back from the dead it makes death have no meaning. It’s hard to feel sad for a death when you know the author could have simply revived them but just chose not to. That’s the main thing that killed these books for me.
The other killer is the arbitrary use of magic without really explaining its power. A rule system is important to stop anything from happening at any time on a whim.
The key to enjoying Malazan is to trust the author and just except you're not going to understand everything that's happening as It happens. If you attempt to make sense of every little thing that is going on in the first 2-3 books you are going to end up looking like this guy 👆😂 Just embrace the chaos and trust that it will all come together in the end.
These books REQUIRE your fullest attention. Countless times, there will be a single, subtle sentence that will reveal major information and if you aren't paying attention then you'll be confused later.
as a malazan fan, if deadhouse gates does not hook you, the series might not be for you
Partway through this video I realized he's describing post-modernist literature in a nutshell, LMAO.
Reading should be for your own pleasure and you should not force yourself to read something that confuses and frustrates you. I personaly have no problem with not being on many hype trains like Abercombie or Erikson. They are not for me. End of story
I agree! Read GotM, have Deadhouse Gates beside my bed, calling me, I want to love it but it is more like I'm forcing myself, I want to be on the Malazan love wagon! I want to know what they know! But I'm finishing up Argument of Kings and loving it. I think I'll read Kings of the Wyld next, .....and THEN Deadhouse Gates. Good luck to both of us!
I was sold at the deadhouse ending but book 3 was where I loved everything from start to finish.
It's the Azath isn't it? Or Iskaral? Or the places on the map you can't find? Ahhh I do love DHG!! Best series ever!
You will start understanding in Memories of Ice, that's when it all comes together, then when you get to the fifth book or if you get to it, the it starts all over, but all I can tell is that this is a great Journey, I recommend you to read Gardens of the Moon again so that you understand what happened there after the fact, the second read of GOTM is majestic.
It is definitely something where you need to be focused on reading. I'm paused about halfway through book 6 and I'm still not sure what is happening. It's not enjoyable in the sense of fun, I think it's more enjoyable as in a way you'd see an in-depth, 10-15 hour movie regarding both world war 1 and 2 while also pulling in everything about the geopolitical influences and happenings, and then tossing in the ancient historical influences of the whole of Europe and Asia. Then mix in fantastical aspects, magic, races, etc. All that said, currently, my favorite book I've read in the series is Memories of Ice.
I also have heard of some online powerpoint (or google equivalents), that are out there for the first 5 or 6 books that help make it a bit easier to swallow. I'm hoping you continue as I like hearing your opinions of books, but understand if you stop.
Thanks for the video!
Don’t worry about understanding anything. Just roll with it. Deadhouse Gates does drag for a bit, but then it goes real hard. Any confusing dragging you encounter will be worth it.
With mazalan there is a lot going on with lots of villain and hero’s it’s not until later on through a few more books biggest villain is revealed.
Think of game of thrones everyone worried about the big king or queen. But on the other hand the real big bad is the zombies.
In mazalan again everyone’s wants to be on top but there lots of evils before you get to the big bad
If you're less than 2 books in and it's driving you crazy, shelve it. There's no requirement to like this series and there is a world of stories out there waiting for you to enjoy!
I gave up halfway through the first book. If I basically need to be taking notes while reading a book, nope, not for me!
Sounds like you want to love this series because other people do, not because you think it has great merit. Drop the series and move onto other books, stop torturing yourself.
Gardens of the Moon was great.. there are a few other good ones, a lot of them are so boring, I skipped to Book 9 and I’m ready to just to find out what happens to everyone and every pseudo god and dragon and god
I'm DNF'ing the series after finishing GotM. It was not "hard" to understand, it was just bad.
I will probably go to my grave wondering if I should ever try Malazan.
Don't wonder. You didn't miss much.
Hi 👋 I hope u will carry on with Malazan series by Steven Erikson????
I always thought of it like visiting a completely different country. Only slowly you learn about their culture, language, habits, just by observing and not just spoon fed the infos by wikipedia:) You just try to catch some information here and there and slowly learning. Some things might only make sense later when you watch back to a certain point.
I also was heavy confused with book one and also most parts with book two, this was actually motivating for me to continue and learn more as progress through the story. The ending of book 2 was so worth it and moved me deeply. I was done for a few days. And book 3 finally started to close some confusing holes and it feels like its coming together. Haven‘t read the 4th yet but hope it will continue this way!
I would point out that there isn’t really a protagonist in Malazan. Instead, the series reads more like a history book each character passing the story to one another. Maybe that's why you find it (too) confusing?
Personally it's one of my favourites series. But if you find the world interesting maybe at least continue with book 3; it's a continuation of story from book 1. If you still don't find it gripping enough by then then maybe it just isn't the book/series for you.
Another big problem with the series is that book 1 is probably the weakest of the ten..
Really take your time with Malazan. It is true that Erikson's books drag quite a lot, so much so that I often wasn't interested in the climax of a story (such as with DHG) when it actually happened. By then I was often burned out and just wanted to finish the book. I think this is also because I rushed the books a bit, because I joined Mike's Malazan readalong and thus had a deadline for each book. I think it's best if you take your time with them and to take some breaks in between parts or books, perhaps listen to the Ten Very Big Books podcast as someone else mentioned to get the most out of it. I read all of it and I'm one of the few who didn't understand the ending and don't find the series worth all the hassle. Don't get me wrong, the series had very high highs but also very low lows for me. Some of his characters are amazing and personal favourites.
My advise: finish DHG at a nice steady pace. If at the end, you're still not convinced. Drop it and perhaps try again in a few years. If you're unsure about military fantasy: try an easier military fantasy and see if it is your genre. If not, I would not continue the series if I were you.
I don't know why, but despite my struggles with the series, I am still drawn to it and I am even thinking of picking up his latest trilogy or slowly rereading the entire series. So it's doing something for me! I never hated the series, but I never quite loved it as everyone else did as well and I'm sad that I didn't have the same experience as everybody else.
Preach!
A lot of people seem to be rushing these books. I took my time and sometimes it took me even 4 months to finish a book! The irony here is that I started at the same time as Mike and I've not only finished the series already almost a year ago, but I have also read his lateest novel(a masterpiece btw and much smaller in scope, so it is way easier to read) and am reading Karkhanas now, as well as plowing through Esslemont's work too.
But I NEVER EVER had a single issue of books dragging or anything like that at all! Erikson PACKS every single page with meaningful moments, comedy, philosophy, etc. so it does not matter on which page I am in the book, there is always a shit ton to engage with. I do understand I stand out a bit, because I get something out of almost every page, but I think it has a lot to do with just letting go and paying attention to what is in front of me at the time.
On a first read you won't catch most things, just accept things that are not meant to be full understood. I suggest reading the first 3 books , at least, before giving up. Memories of ice is a 9.8/10 for me.
Deadhouse is right behind it, the ending made me cry
There are certain chapter I like more then others but as aways with malazan it all come together towards the end
I would encourage you to at least finish DG as your are pretty far through. If the ending doesn’t get you, then Malazan might not be for you.
However, you should understand that Malazan is a military fantasy series and these aspects will not be going away. It is also a very bleak story at times. Memories of Ice makes DG look like a kids book in comparison. BUT. The overarching theme of the whole series is compassion. You need the dark for the cathartic moments. It’s not some over the top grimdark just out to titillate with extreme violence. It has some of the most uplifting and beautiful moments you will read in fantasy.
As for the characters, you’ve probably only met 10% of them so far. A fan favourite pair don’t show up until book 5!
Oh, forgot to mention - check out the Tor Reread of the Fallen. It’s a series veteran and a newbie going through each book, chapter by chapter. It’s safe to read along with as you read the books, as long as you stay away from the comments. If you go through the chapters of DG you have already read, it will clear up a lot of things for you.
Just go along for the ride. That’s my advice. I’m only 4 chapters in on GotM, but that’s what I keep hearing, and so that’s what I’m doing. And so far, I don’t mind it. I’m losing a lot, but I’m gonna end up rereading it, probably right after the first time I finish it. It’s a strange ride, though, for sure.
I am a little more than half way through GotM, it gets much much much better. It took me a little bit to get through the first half, but stick through it :).
"I don't feel like I'm ever getting the hang of what's going on" - is my summary of the 10 books
I deeply thank you for your unpopular opinion 🙏
I had the first 3 books on my shelf for 10 years. Last year I got 2 books in then quit and got some therapy 😂
😂😂😂
The end of Deadhouse Gates is absolutely soul crushing. Therapy recommended.
I’m so sick of these Malazan sycophants claiming all other fantasy writers “spoon feed” you simply because they wrote a story that makes sense. Writing a comprehensible book isn’t “spoon feeding”
I strongly agree. I dislike when people use the phrase "spoon feeding" when it is not accurate. I wouldn't mind as much if leaving readers out of context was only used to tell the story in a more natural way, without makeshift crutches to help readers. However, what actually happens is that the author uses what I would call the "miscommunication trope," but a different type of miscommunication, directed towards the readers. Why do I say so? Well, I have read GoTM, and there were a few moments where it would have been natural to let readers hear a dialogue between some people, but the scene fades to black, leaving readers to guess what information was conveyed. This shows me that the "miscommunication trope towards readers," or "avoidng spoon feeding" is partly done for the sake of "intrigue" and difficulty for the sake of difficulty. Now, I do understand that some people enjoy it. There is nothing wrong with that. I even myself enjoyed it somewhat. But I am just saying that the whole "spoon feeding" phrase is not fair. It gives off a tone that suggests you have to be "basic" or "shallow" to not enjoy it when, in reality, it is just a different style of storytelling that some people enjoy and some don't."
I agree that writing a direct narrative is not spoon feeding. It is an authorial choice just like any other. I myself enjoy this style much more while Malazan was not for me.
@@eX13Eugene very well said
Malaz is comprehensible if you pay enough attention.
I think that while it's not for everyone the style that Malazan is written forces you to accept not knowing what's going on and enjoy being able to piece things together naturally as you learn the world and characters more. More you learn it, the more satisfying it becomes. But it is an active process and requires a lot of attention from the reader. It's definitely not everyone's cup of tea, and no one should feel bad for not enjoying it.
Same!!!! I so wanted to love it and it started so well but no, I just can’t 😞😢
Don't tunnel vision on the small details.Things will resolve towards the end, more or less, convergences will happen and you'll get some insight into what Erikson is trying to do with this world. This is a series that makes more sense in retrospect, that is why re-reads are more rewarding than the first time. Unlike most fantasy writers, Erikson doesn't try to spoon feed you. You're supposed to be lost and overwhelmed, because that's how Erikson wants you to feel about the world of Malazan. Regarding your point on not caring about the characters, if you manage to finish Deadhouse Gates without getting emotionally and psychologically wrecked, then you should probably drop the series. Ultimately reading is a very personal thing, and nobody, even yourself can force you to love and enjoy something you don't. Malazan is and will always be my number one( sorry Tolkien), it will always break my heart and frustrate me, it will get me laughing and raging, it will make me despair and hope, and above all Malazan will always teach me the value of empathy and compassion. Go in " Wide eyed stupid" and just "witness", the majesty of Erikson.
You HAVE to finish Deadhouse Gates. I know there's somewhat of a slog in the middle, but the end of that book is incredible. I read it 2 years ago and it's still burned into my memory. I also felt like I could understand DG better than GotM. Don't worry about the meaning of the path of hands or the heboric jade stuff. I know it's hard to let go of the stuff you don't understand, but you get used to doing it.
I keep hearing so much great stuff about the conclusion of DG!
I almost want to make a video just for you. Have tried to make a few for people that are in the same boat as you. There are things I am so sure could help get your feet under you. I am on the 4th book and thoroughly loved the end of book 2 and all of book 3. Finish book 2, 100%. Book 3 begins with a bang and us a bit easier, in my opinion, to hold onto the story. I am 100% sold with the series after Deadhouse and especially with Memories of Ice. Book 3 felt like I finally got what I thought I was going to get with the series from start to finish.
The Malazan series is a masterclass in imagination!
Made a video today for you and others discouraged with the series. Hope it turns around, but no shame in a series not being for you. Personally it all really clicked at the end of Deadhouse, then Memories of Ice was a top book I have ever read.
I don’t have the brain space for Malazan. I will probably not read it until I’m an empty nester(so at least in 10 years) good luck reading it.
Just keep going it starts making sense the farther you go!! Then if you re-read the series they are the most satisfying reads
Also you need to get through to the 3rd book. Once you're there you'll be hooked. It is amazing. Also the audiobooks may help. You don't have to think about how things are pronounced hahaha
The most important thing about reading Malazan really is leaning to read Malazan.
You will not enjoy reading it like you enjoy reading a - let's say Sanderson book or something like that. Because what Malazan shows you is, that there is so much more possible to enjoy in stories then just that shallow level of enjoyment.
This is not supposed to sound snobby, but it really is true in my opinion. At some point within the journey, there will come the moment, when you get it and when you slowly find the things, Erikson is trying to achieve here.
Actually, there are multiple of these. The ending of Deadhouse Gates is probably the first one, and then it goes from there.
But know, that while reading Malazan, there will always be moments you don't enjoy yourself and have to actively search for things to enjoy. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. And both of these things are okay.
Oh and about the not understanding of things: It is honestly no problem. There are things, that have not been understood by people, that have read the series dozens of times, so that is that...
Some things you will understand, some you won't. Erikson will explain some, but not near the amount that you would expect from the more mainstream SFF stories. Again: That is why so many people say that Malazan has changed them on a deeper level. It will challenge you, it will break you, but it will most definitely change and expand the way you view storytelling itself. Because there is so much that is possible with this incredible medium we all love :)
But yeah it's challenging. I also didn't enjoy huge parts of the series, especially the first half of Deadhouse Gates. But that changed. And as with so many great things: The sum is bigger than it's individual parts, even if some parts are really not your taste at the moment.
Oh, so many typos... My hands are cold and RUclips doesn't let me edit comments haha
This sounds like me and the Wheel of Time 😂
Imagine reading words, its actually easy
Wanting to be part of something and ranting about it at the same time sounds like a disorder 🤣🤦♀
i’m crying people treat this series like it’s ulysses and finnegan's wake. you don’t need any source material to understand this series just use your brain and understand your not gonna get every answers in the book 😂
Here's my two cents worth of help, once you get past the second book it just gets better, and better, and better, because things that were left as such ambiguous mysteries that were planted in earlier books, get answers that blow your mind and make you go "oh shit!" out loud.
So ya, just survive the first two books. Book three got me absolutely hooked.
I feel your pain though, book one and two I was constantly flipping back to the roster pages and googling the names and terms of what the hell was going on while trying to avoid spoilers, but if you like mysteries having big reveals, Malazan pays off.
Hope you stay strong with the Malazan reads!
I bounced off the first book multiple times for years before the series grabbed me.
I think Deadhouse Gates was where it really got it’s hooks in me.
Best most enjoyable series