How could you Craig?? As a UK model railway guy I am proud to pay £1000 for the latest re-release from Horns burg of their 40 year old tooling and my 00 gauge phone box only cost me £45!!! :) Fabulous updates mate....but the Judge told me I am not allowed to do anymore shaky hand filming, especially after the last incident at my local bus station! This country is so restrictive lol
While visiting my sister in the US at Richmond, Virginia ,the railway near her house, I saw regular long coal trains and some short ' pick up' goods types too, so for freight the US has far more scope for these sort of trains than we do now , also at the local park near her house at the football ground they had some preserved rolling stock including a ex postal coach and and Cabouse.
Everything you said is exactly why I model American. Roundy roundy, put the train on track, watch for 5 mins bored, go my cup of tea. With a small switching layout you get involved with it. It has purpose. Delivering goods, shipping goods, small trains, single load customers. These days in the UK its all trains from point A to B, thats it. I do try and make it interesting, switch lists, timing for setting out, applying brakes, setting blue flags, so many things. If your going to the Crewe show being organised by Jason, come on down and have a go on my layout, I need the help. Jawtooth is good, but Distant Signals is a whole different level.
There is so much more variety of terrain and purpose of railroad prototypes in the US than we have, but Don’t forget that we really only see videos/photos of the exceptional in the media and this tends to skew our impressions and expectations (much like many aspects of life). Perhaps we have been constrained by “gatekeepers” who dictate what a layout “should look like” and do not feel sufficiently free to fully embrace rule 1 and just go with the flow. There’s nothing wrong with continuing to follow the well trod path, but ultimately it’s only by wandering away from that path that one may find the greater rewards.
I started with US outline N Scale 30 years ago because compared to what was available as UK outline locos etc they were streets ahead. My layout is more roundy roundy than Ops but I run long trains of different eras in USA and Canada - its fun
As a former Brit and now Canadian I model both UK and Canadian and very quickly came to the conclusion that there is enough space in my heart to love both approaches, so I have a small UK roundy roundy and about the same size Canadian layout with a single track / runaround / industrial spurs but also with the option to do a roundy roundy. (Cause who doesn’t just love watching trains!). I think there is more potential for operations in North American model railroading and its been developed to a greater extent but that doesn’t mean you can’t do the same thing with a British layout. I’d recommend a great book ‘Track planning for realistic operations’, it really gives tremendous insight into how you can build a layout with ops in mind (I have an ancient copy but I think its still in print).
I agree with the base premise but there is more than one solution. Modelling Late steam era (5), I get all the freight and goods operations joy as well as significant passenger operations. Steam plus first generation diesel are just icing on the cake. In my plan for Grimthorpe (inspired by Grimsby and Cleethorpes)in the 60s, I have a holiday resort town, a commercial dock, a fish dock, 2 main passenger stations, goods yards, 2 mainlines - London ex-Great Nothern + Trans-Pennine ex-Great Central. Within the confines of the urban area, there is a coal fired power station, two gas plants, a cattle dock, a large brewery, and the resort terminus features a carriage washer, fuelling point, turntable, with an ornate fish and chip shop, large pier, amusement arcade, roller coaster, ferris wheel and helter skelter right on the beach.
Great thoughts as usual! My experience of US is : Everything is big but not everyone has a full basement or garage converted as the magazines suggest, even in Texas! Locomotive running quality is far far better then the UK Freight operations dominate like the real railroad and are taken very seriously with exact car switching and spotting with waybills train orders etc Thus many layout are like a series of connected Inglenook puzzles The range of railroads makes it much more ‘colorful’ and interesting Walthers cornerstone buildings appear in the US as often a Metcalfe do in the UK! For your N gauge what to do next question, I once did an N scale layout split down the middle with one side US and the other UK. Half the time UP hopper trains thrashed through a northern English mill town, and half the time a blue diesel made its way across the texas desert…great fun….
Without trying to sound like a rivet counter Craig at 15:25 you say that’s a little class 20. However, it defo looks normal sized to me 😜 Soz pal couldn’t resist the silliness - enjoyed the video, can’t offer any advice as I’m clueless - cheers 👍
As an American all I have to say to you is, THANK YOU! It's nice to know that an Englishman really Appreciates U.S.A. prototypes, And, greetings from the U.S.A.
I was lucky enough to live alongside the Allegheny subdivision of the Allegheny Valley Railroad in Lawrenceville when I lived in the US - I got to see shortline operations on a class III RR up close, with power from the Alleghency Valley Railroad, CSX, and Norfolk Southern regularly traveling past my house very very loudly. Personally, my favorite locos to see on that shortline were the AVR, I think their paint scheme is gorgeous! On my side of the river, there were still some sidings serving industry (both head and tail shunts), as well as what used to be a passing loop now regularly used as temporary storage for oil containers. Across the river were a number of storage areas which you could get a great overview of from a local bridge. While my real passion is the Darjeeling Himalayan Railway, and it's what I'll primarily be modeling, I do have a small yen to build a small N scale layout representing the AVR I used to live alongside.
@@IronHorseRailways I must admit, I like the NS black, but only because there's a horse on it, and I'm a horse mad guy and have been since childhood. The CSX livery has its own charm too, and BN green is rather delightful. Maybe I just need to give up saying "I like x" and instead say "it's all pretty, it's trains!" and embrace the madness that comes with that!
As an American, I will share with you some other differences between USA & UK railways. I 'm basing this on videos I have seen of UK railways and personal knowledge of USA and Canadian railways. First, most of our railway tracks are set up for bidirectional operation. Signals are set up for both directions. Secondly, much of our railway network consists of a single track for many miles with passing sidings. On these sidings will be parked either a train going the opposite way or a lower priority train waiting for a higher priority to pass. Thirdly, we have many more level crossings. These are just a few of the differences between the USA ,Canada ,and UK railways. This is not to say one is better than the other. I happen to love USA, Canadian, and UK railways. Both models and prototypes.🇺🇸🇨🇦🇬🇧.Bill from California
A few good reasons why US layouts tend to be of a higher standard .For starters many have very large basements at their disposal . The model industries like the Cornerstone kits look as though they would justify being rail served especially in the modern era. The British equivalents tend to be more compressed and look too small . The most important one is that Britain has been playing catch up as regards running ability of locos. I had Kato Dash9s in the 90s with fly wheels whilst the UK had Lima Class 47s . Excellent video
Hi, great video pointing out how a form of transport that was born in this country has been taken to higher levels in America, model railways wise I must admit it doesn’t really float my boat, they are however way ahead in Bluetooth operation, they had that system available a few years before Hornby adopted it for the Uk market, it would be nice to see things modellers like being available like rare livery coaches and locomotives instead of the usual blue and green livery items constantly being produced by the container load, I’ve seen so many Accurascale class 37’s in DRS livery for sale at so many retailers, I guess Accurascale assumed every modeller wanted one so they over manufactured more of them and overlooked the other livers that would have sold without any left on shelves like the Network Rail yellow livery class 97 which is a 37 in reality, modellers would like to see more variation and better price structure, Bachmann lowered the price of their class 31 because Accurascale’s model is better value for money because you get extra features as standard, you have to speed a lot of money to get a deluxe Bachmann model which has Working fans, tinted windows and a auto uncoupling system, the tinted windows aren’t for everyone to be fair but the auto uncoupling system should have been designed in more than just the tension lock system, keep up the good work, thanks for sharing.
Nice video Craig , stick with finishing off the N as planned. US railroading has a lot to offer but for me continental HO is where its at. Can never be failed to be blown away with what can be done with mainland european scapes/ scenes. What makes continental HO better is the higher quality models , sheer amount of gear made. plus the variety of traffic they ship about. Modern outline in the UK is limited, freight traffic is bulk consignments, you could say only nuclear flask or cement traffic has the small shunting space , the aggregates traffic out of peak forest has a bit of shunting . The great untapped resource in 00 is LRT modelling which offers so much potential, especially with tighter curves / street scenes /automated roadways. As for making tracks , a layout based on the southern section of the WCML was always going to be a limited affair as the WCML today is tedious. Its not helped that a lot of the rolling stock making tracks needs isnt made. The lack of the 325's , 387's & the LNWR liveried class 350's & the new 730's that are arriving. You could argue that the aggregate facility at Bletchley should have been incorporated to add some interest or even the emu sidings.
You pose the questions that make us think Craig! It takes me all my time to be up to,speed with BR, but when I see an US layout I will notice the things you pointed out for us. Rivet free zone- good boy! 😂
Hey Craig, as you know, I model Canadian / American outline in my fictional layout. But, I do have prototype elements to keep it 'real'. I also run what I want as well. Rule 1 n all that. The variety is excellent, liveries etc are vast. I will still do other gauges, as I enjoy all things trains. I'd go for the split, 009 is so much fun, I loved building my Nam'68 layout. Look forward to seeing what you come up with. Brian
The Americans are now turning to shelf and micro layouts as many don't have the space either. I follow loads of American and Canadian modellers and you'll be surprised how many do small detailed layouts
I love the American narrow gauge logging lines, they have some interesting looking locos. As for the rest I have no interest, same as for modern UK railways. If I want to see a diesel or electric I’ll stand on the main road and watch the lorries and buses go by🙄. Steam is king as far as I’m concerned. Also there is still a lot to be said for modelling UK as it’s not always greener over there, it may just seem more exotic. When I watch railway programs from around the world they all look like they’re using the same design of locos and in the same way (US, Aus and NZ). Go for 009 there’s some great models out there. The only problem I find with 009 is the manufacturers think we all want to model Welsh slate quarries. Love how the layouts coming along.
Further to my comment as to my preference, I do applaud the American approach as well as their attention to authenticity and detail. You're right to highlight it and we can learn from it. I model German railways in N and find shunting a chore in the small scale. if I modelled HO or larger I'd take a different view. Note that German railways with the number of private sidings still lend themselves to a slightly different approach akin to the US model. Indeed there are also many privately operated railway companies too (aside from train operating companies operating freight and regional passenger services). One of the problems I find with British modellers is an apparent unwillingness to look outside the UK at overseas railway practice. Indeed there is a reluctance to look for inspiration outside of their chosen scale.
Leave your n guage layout as it is mate...blast some metal and hardcore , av a few light ales and you'll ponder on what to model on that end ... I'd say a station and a countryside type back area if poss... Cutting it in half would be a shame imho
I will admit American trains do have more variety in their loads they haul. Unfortunately most of the American layouts I've seen are boring open expanses with dead yellow grass or very rocky areas. Also their locos just seem to be huge hulking behemoths that all look basically the same. Many British layouts have lots of greenery, even in city/town scenes and have more detail. And English locos have an elegance to them with many different classes and liveries. Even though British trains have less varieties in the loads they haul at any one time I personally prefer the visuals of British layouts. But each to our own preferences! 👍
That's so funny you mention that, because we Americans think that all the different "Class 56, Class 60, or class whatever" all look exactly alike. I can only assume it all depends on which country you have grown up in.
The prototype operations are not the only factor here -- not even the main one IMHO. You could easily design a UK outline layout the American way, given the space, mindset ... and couplers. US model railroads are typically built in a larger area. An entire US basement -- the full footprint of the house -- is not an uncommon layout size. Even if you have the entire loft of a UK house, it's a much smaller space to work with -- not just because of the angle of the roof cutting down the footprint, but also because the house has a smaller footprint to start with. But then ... US mainline trains are even more massive than US basements. Even with the huge spaces US modellers start with, modelling a full length class A freight train is impractical. That has resulted in a different mindset. On a typical US layout your view follows the train, whereas on a typical UK layout, your view stays in one place as a series of trains pass. This results in a layout designed for operation first, using representative, smaller trains. So it's normal to have multiple scenes depicted with plain track between them, following the train as it goes places. And they will often have a scenic classification yard instead of a fiddleyard. The third issue is couplers. The US has universally used a variant of the knuckle autocoupler far enough back in history that the changeover was completed before the vast majority of railway modelling. US outline models use a coupler which is similar in appearance, but has been adapted well for hands-free coupling and uncoupling ... and is old enough the patents have expired, so has been universally adopted. Our trains ... don't. While we've had a scaled down version of that same knuckle coupler in use in this country in some fashion for roughly a century, it's never been our standard or universal coupler. There is no universal coupler for this country in real form -- and honestly no *good* coupler in model form either. Even using the US coupler on UK stock is less than ideal -- our rolling stock is sufficiently different that their standard model coupler just doesn't work as well for our purposes. Our buffers get in the way. Not having a good universal model coupler makes large layouts which strongly depend on hands-free shunting an unattractive prospect. Where you do see "shunting layouts" in the UK, there is typically only one scene, generally set up for manual coupling by a single operator using scale style manual couplers, and the operational interest of going from A to B to C is not a feature of the layout at all. If you do want to do this kind of modelling with UK prototypes, it's perfectly possible -- just not the default. As a start, take three or more complete layout plans which are much smaller than the space you have, and connect them together. There are a few UK layouts built with multiple scenes like this -- check out "Hills of the North" or "McKinley Railway" for some (incredibly ambitious) examples -- admittedly both set in spaces that would make even the typical US modeller jealous. With the more typical space of a UK loft, garage or (decent size) shed you'd need to approach this on a smaller scale -- chain together a BLT, intermediate passing station and junction station, for example, and run the branch goods trains from the junction up to the BLT and back. You could also do this in an industrial setting, with exchange sidings and several industrial sites. However, when presented with the kind of space necessary for this, most UK modellers immediately lay out a single mainline scene - because that's the UK modelling mindset.
Some great points made, although I would add there are plenty of US modellers who have smaller shelf layouts too, by choice and not by circumstances forcing it. Boomer Diorama is one of my favourites! Cheers buddy!
Absolutely agree with you here. I think with freight wagons it's a case of having somewhere to run them to, which I reckon is key to the US way. The thing about Making Tracks is that there isn't much that goes on at the prototype Milton Keynes Station. So really the procession of trains is kind of prototypical. And right at the start of MT2, Pete Waterman said that nothing much actually happens at a station. But if we were to build a UK outline layout in the way they do it in the US then you'd potentially have something which ticked all boxes. I tend to model 70s and very early 80s as the railways to me were much more interesting back then. The 70s you still had a few pick up goods trains and, I believe the last Cattle train ran on the North Wales coast in 1975, 76 on the Kyle of Lochalsh line, although officially BR stopped carrying livestock in 72. So that's kind of within my time frame. Oil trains are another one. If you have oil sidings or something.
Interesting video and proposition as to the way we think about model railways. Personally I am happy to operate a “paradestrecke” type layout with a procession of trains going through a landscape.
Hi Craig I get were your going I'm trying something different and it's a American thing I'm doing 2 levels but the difference is. I'm doing 3 sheds 4 countries, English, American, Japan and a European. All can run through each country but also they run with in there self so. And they all have a stations and all have 2 industries for shunting, except for Japan were that's all about people moving. Then there is another twist each country is going to have a different season. Colin
There are also short haul freight lines in Japan, mostly for transporting one type of goods like oil or cement. Many are still operated by small bo-bo diesel locos.
Adopt the US practice but use British outline trains. I suspect that modelling something like a coal power plant on one side and a mixed freight terminal and passenger station on the other side of a larger roundabout type layout could help? I love an old school Roundabout layout if there are operating acessories.
I think the variety is in the American stuff that slot of stuff is transported vast distance in huge bulk and easier to transport by train. Also the industrial stull with so much space you can build by a railway and get a spur run to your business if there's enough traffic to warrant it.think diffrent here in ireland and the uk that the cities came before trains and in the states was trains first and stuff could be built and lines added as needed.
Even if you shorten the layout, you can still run longer trains on it, seeing you do a OO9 Gauge layout would be interesting and those American layouts at model rail exhibition are impressive, great video
Hi Craig, nice update mate. I think the American HO scene is well catered for by Bachmann, they also have the advantage of buying HO from all over the world. When you combine HO and OO gauge rolling stock, there is definitely a size issue, like Marmite you either like it or not. Americans also have a great advantage of having a lot of space in which to indulge their projects, dare I say it, a few probably run up a lot of debt too. As for your dilemma, I would downsize the N gauge layout, if you have to move things about to access your desk then you're already at a loss. Having a nice accessible work space is vital (in my opinion) to allow those creative juices to flow. All the best. Ian
You're not wrong mate, having to move the desk is sub-optimal at best.. a fair bit of work involved in cutting it back, so, might have to wait a bit - for now it's a fiddle yard 😂
What's even funnier, is that Bachmann has always been looked down upon by most Americans as very cheap and low quality. Now it seems as though they are trying desperately to shed that image in the American market. While in the UK, it's seems to be a completely different company with decent quality products. If I'm honest, it does seem Bachmann in America has gotten a bit better in the last few years. They have to, because other manufactures are producing some absolutely beautiful, very scale great running products that we could only dream about 10 short years ago.
one or two thoughts here... firstly, don't fill every available space with track.... less is more ( realistic) only have one or two 'key' industries on the layout, look at the real world. try to keep to an era and area for realism feel free to swap these , but try not to mix ( 66's on vacuum braked...) good options for variety and fun, waggon repair works, diesel or steam depot 'plank' ( I have both, 1963 and 2017) good way to enjoy your loco's and stock. also ignore all of the above and enjoy the hobby.... oh and P.S. before thinking U,S, railROAD modelers have the best... take a look at the general standards of THEIR 'O' scale compared to British railWAY modellers in 'O' gauge / 7mm
I don’t really know enough about American model railways to properly comment but some of the ones I’ve seen are incredible. We seem in this country to be very linear in our layouts and won’t do more than 2 levels!! I’d chop a bit off the n gauge layout and do a separate OO9 layout then you have the beauty of running one or the other or both!
While American rail holds little interest, for me, you can see what is going on! The American companies don't hide their 'roads' behind tall fences, walls, or lines of trees, where getting witihin half a mile is strictly 'verboten'. You can get right up close to the rails, mostly unfenced, just about anywhere, and they even have railways down the middle of the 'high street', There is no need to carry a set of step-ladders to allow you to see over the parapet of bridges, or use 'selfie-sticks, and hope the subject is in the lens - or worse still, join the jostling, pushing, shoving crowd at the end of a station platform, and hope nobody steps in front of you at the critical moment. (We've all seen that footage of the chap leaning way out over the platform to get a vid of the steamie going on the opposite way, then nearly getting squished by the DMU blasting past the platform he was standing on!) As you mentioned, American rail is much more colourful, compared with ours - where the only real colour is in the variation of weathering (rust!) on the stock, rather than mixed traffic. What I find amusing is that different rail companies all have their own track system, olften running parallel to another's, and yards apart - resulting in a maze of multiple cross-overs going in all weird directions. That is why I think UK rail modelling seems to be stuck in around 1940, at the end of private wagon ownership, and the start of BR mono-block merry-go-round trains. Add to that - U.S. and Euro model trains have always used HO, not the UK's distorted-scale OO, which came about so that the motors of the time could be fitted into the loco's, and now we are 'stuck' with it. (temporarily ignoring N, TT, and O). On the 'against' side, American trains tend to have multiple locos on the front, and often the middle, of three mile long trains, trundling along at 30 mph - and perhaps two trains a DAY passing by, and they - too - are slowly going over to single-function trains, eg grain trains, car carriers, etc. Also, generally, the rail infra-structure is in very poor condition, hence all the vids of wobbling or rocking bridges, loose rail joints, etc, that 'Jaw-Tooth' is known for filming.
When you say that American layouts have a better prototype for modelling, your argument doesn’t make much sense to me if I’m honest. I really couldn’t agree less with that statement. There’s SO MUCH shunting and interesting movements going on all over the UK network, none of which involve ballast or stone. You’ve just got to look for it, they’re not all obvious. I think it needs more research if that’s a conclusion you’re coming to. My local example would be Ketton Ward sidings. Trains back in off a main line, into a siding and are taken away in batches by an 08 into a factory, over a level crossing and through a tunnel to get there. It’s all surrounded by rolling hills and the river Welland. What more do you want?! That’s just one example. You’ve got to look beyond the big ballast yards.
I never said there wasn't any interesting movements, I said they're far and few between - furthermore, I was referencing short lines more than main lines, small private customers that regularly receive box vans or one or two tankers - I don't know if any none military customers on the UK network that are in receipt of one or two tankers every week, nor any that receive small numbers of intermodal or 'box vans' - closest we have would be ferry vans I think - again, would love to see a current example of this type of comparable movement! Hopefully you can bring it to light as you did with the example you gave? Genuinely looking forward!❤️
@@IronHorseRailways that’s true, there isn’t much of that sort of thing anymore. Since the introduction of block working, you don’t see a handful of wagons taken up a branch line. With the exception of the 08 taking 3 or 4 PCA’s at a time into the aforementioned Ketton works, there can’t be too many examples of that equivalent. There’s a good reason for that though, the American system doesn’t make any money. A lot of their operations run at a hemorrhaging loss! The difference is, in the UK, everyone apart from DB is making a profit. I can think of another example of regular short train workings on branch lines too, it’s something that also comes from personal experience. Network Rail tripper services are contracted to run between the large ballast depots (Toton to Whitemoor is just for example). The trains always run, even if there’s nothing to send, because the operator gets paid to provide the service regardless. I’ve personally taken one Coalfish from Toton to Whitemoor, run round it, then brought it back again. From Syston to Helpston, that train is technically running on a branch line and again from Peterborough to Whitemoor. So that fits the description, albeit at a higher running speed because we haven’t let our railways completely fall apart, as well as grade separating them in the first place to allow that higher and safer running speed. There’s also something similar to Ketton at Bardon Hill, where the main line train is backed into the sidings and a Rolls Royce powered shunt loco takes batches of wagons up a small branch and into a plant for loading. I believe Lackenby had a whole system of trains run by shunt locos that delivered to the main line, but that’ll be all gone by now. There’s a short timber train that runs infrequently in mid wales at the moment, 37 hauled to Chirk I believe. I’m not sure if the China Clay trains In Cornwall are still batch hauled to the main lines any longer, but that could be another viable example. I’m sure there’s more, I’m just not familiar with them all. I don’t really see why that’s better than a block working approach anyway, I feel like it’s comparing apples and oranges. Taking single wagons to a customer once a week, down a dedicated branch, probably doesn’t even cover the fuel, maintenance or wages cost, it’s a bit ridiculous. Even seeing it on a layout requires mental gymnastics to justify it being there, which is probably what had to happen in America on the real world example too!
better scenery products are available i.e. better range of products for producing a steelworks. As for better layouts - I find some USA layouts they try and ram too much in the space and it looks messy/dont look realistic. But ive also seen some good steelwork shunting layouts too on youtube. As for your N scale layout, i would leave it as it is but have a coal mine or some other heavy industry in the free space you have available.
As a American, I know exactly what your talking about. All this stuff crammed in a small place is just tacky looking. It absolutely takes away for the layout and the overall impression. But I try to say whatever, it's their RR and whatever they like.
I think Id Shorten her up mate. Makes it more manageable if you need to move it. And build a seperate 009 layout should you wish. Yep, I agree the Yanks do have more variety in their layouts, but I guess the subject matter in their 1 to 1 world has more variety. Class 20 looks great btw. But who doesnt like a class 20. 🤣
Re: British modern image, i dont think your 100% correct. It depends where you look. Take Toton for example it recieves cars, ballast, engineers, stone and metal trains. And when the tripper trains arrive there are 5 yard drivers a day that shunt these trains as required, as well as making up trains, and all viewable from the famous bank. The problem with modern image is apart from the adhoc stock moves and the network rail trippers, most of the trains are very long and hard to model in the space most people have available. The best time for modern image was rougly 1996-2002 when EWS took over and they started the enterprise trains, which saw wagon variety and different length trains. Plus the traction was better. In regards to the American modelling, I fully agree with you! We at worst run trains in circles and at best try to simulate a bisy termius in what ever region or era. The Americans have prototypical operations down to a t, and you dont need a big layout. Some very good ops can be gained in as little as 6ftx18in. I model british (1960s) and American, and have an American exhibition layout (videos can be seen). I find the ops you can run with American much more interesting, and when you get away from class 1 and into regional and short lines, the operations are so interesting. The space making tracks has done, you could accurately model some short lines and have more operation interest. Then you can get onto freelance railroading (making your own railroad up) etc, I could go on! There is at exhibitions a certain snobbyness to American layouts. Have exhibited mine and my uncles N scale layout, alot of people wont entertain it because its not British, and wont even just look at it for its modelling value. The people who seem to model American though seem to be very friendly compared to SOME of the British outline modellers who will tell you whatever is wrong with your layout. Its just our nmra isnt as good as in the US. 2 very good channels are Distant Signal and Delay in block. They describe alot of what is being seen. Sorry to go on a bit, but as you can tell you touch on something I agree with👍
Hi Craig. You raised quite a few issues on the topic of USA vs UK model layouts. To a certain degree, I think you have confused better with bigger - *everything* in the USA is bigger! You say UK trains are hidden by buildings, but again the USA is a massive country. This is an act of God, the UK can't do anything about its small size. Yes, if you want to go down the prototypical route and restrict yourself to just one era and one industry, etc., then it's again down to geographical and cultural differences - vive la difference! Alternatively, a modeller can abide by Rule 1 and have what you want! Bad lighting in your train room: Sorry, but it's down to your non-railway decision to go with black walls. Again, (a variant of) Rule 1 applies.
Honestly, that's the direction I would take if I was interested in modeling British - when I first got interested in the hobby again, my big inspiration was the Allegheny Valley Railroad, and to be honest, the section of track I used to live alongside would make an excellent shelf layout, particularly in N - a passing siding regularly used as storage for oil tankers, three sidings still serving industry, all running fairly close to the Allegheny river, and across the river (easily represented by having a single rail width run across to the other side of a room with another shelf layout) were some major storage yard areas and industry service areas, connected by some very steep grades to cross the river on rail bridges between my side of the river and the other side of the river. Even just using that track layout itself would yield some wonderful operations, with the ability to use the yard on the other side of the layout as a visible fiddle yard - and who says your railway has to be prototypical for the country you're modeling? There is nothing at all wrong with modeling what makes you happy - if you draw inspiration for your track layout from other countries, even if you do otherwise model it as if it's in the UK, there is nothing at all wrong with that!
@@KidarWolfi think that is the way i will go, with modern image and use block trains with loads to different business. Why not. Even the modern loco shed is a waste of space. So i will put large windows in down one side,just to make it more intresting.
@@zebharris5233 Oh that sounds amazing with the idea of having large windows down the side so you can look inside - if you embrace a little ingenuity, you could still represent the architecture as it would be on the prototype by etching or painting the details onto transparent acrylic for your windows. It could give you a really interesting cutaway view that way, without actually being cutaway - sort of an X-ray vision thing.
@@KidarWolfmy layout at home is going to be modern,but as it is mine and i want to immerse myself in the model, i will ofcourse do as i please. It is a type of escapeism from the real world.👍
Afternoon Craig - a few thoughts: I'm kind of with you on the variety of North American traffic. I'm currently starting my first layout (N-Gauge) since returning to the hobby. I'm kind of doing a fantasy 70's-90's Cornish layout, EXACTLY to do the kind of trains/ops that you described. Kato do some nice n-gauge North American stuff, so maybe my planned tunnel can be some sort of inter dimensional gateway? Or have I been at the homebrew and mushrooms I found on the local cricket pitch too much again? 😵😜To throw another suggestion into the works, Swiss narrow gauge lines often run mixed freight and passenger trains on local services - passengers, tankers, timber, box/pallet vans...Kato, again... I think you might be best off with shortening the layout to give yourself some space. I like the look of 009, too, but my budget is at salvage and kit bashing at the moment, so one thing at a time. Anyway, more power to your arm - I'll buy you a pint or three if you're ever down this way. Cheers from a (still) wet and windy Kernow!
How could you Craig?? As a UK model railway guy I am proud to pay £1000 for the latest re-release from Horns burg of their 40 year old tooling and my 00 gauge phone box only cost me £45!!! :) Fabulous updates mate....but the Judge told me I am not allowed to do anymore shaky hand filming, especially after the last incident at my local bus station! This country is so restrictive lol
Very restrictive but, still charming at times 😂
@@IronHorseRailways We gotta love it mate, it is our world :) Stay safe mate
While visiting my sister in the US at Richmond, Virginia ,the railway near her house, I saw regular long coal trains and some short ' pick up' goods types too, so for freight the US has far more scope for these sort of trains than we do now , also at the local park near her house at the football ground they had some preserved rolling stock including a ex postal coach and and Cabouse.
Everything you said is exactly why I model American.
Roundy roundy, put the train on track, watch for 5 mins bored, go my cup of tea.
With a small switching layout you get involved with it. It has purpose. Delivering goods, shipping goods, small trains, single load customers.
These days in the UK its all trains from point A to B, thats it.
I do try and make it interesting, switch lists, timing for setting out, applying brakes, setting blue flags, so many things.
If your going to the Crewe show being organised by Jason, come on down and have a go on my layout, I need the help.
Jawtooth is good, but Distant Signals is a whole different level.
Love DS, Shane he doesn't post much these days! Danny Harman, out!😂
There is so much more variety of terrain and purpose of railroad prototypes in the US than we have, but Don’t forget that we really only see videos/photos of the exceptional in the media and this tends to skew our impressions and expectations (much like many aspects of life). Perhaps we have been constrained by “gatekeepers” who dictate what a layout “should look like” and do not feel sufficiently free to fully embrace rule 1 and just go with the flow. There’s nothing wrong with continuing to follow the well trod path, but ultimately it’s only by wandering away from that path that one may find the greater rewards.
I started with US outline N Scale 30 years ago because compared to what was available as UK outline locos etc they were streets ahead. My layout is more roundy roundy than Ops but I run long trains of different eras in USA and Canada - its fun
You must do more layout videos Les!😁😁
As a former Brit and now Canadian I model both UK and Canadian and very quickly came to the conclusion that there is enough space in my heart to love both approaches, so I have a small UK roundy roundy and about the same size Canadian layout with a single track / runaround / industrial spurs but also with the option to do a roundy roundy. (Cause who doesn’t just love watching trains!). I think there is more potential for operations in North American model railroading and its been developed to a greater extent but that doesn’t mean you can’t do the same thing with a British layout. I’d recommend a great book ‘Track planning for realistic operations’, it really gives tremendous insight into how you can build a layout with ops in mind (I have an ancient copy but I think its still in print).
Canadian stuff is similar to US, but yes industrial short line spur with several industries is a great idea 👍😊
Love both! Spot on!
I agree with the base premise but there is more than one solution. Modelling Late steam era (5), I get all the freight and goods operations joy as well as significant passenger operations. Steam plus first generation diesel are just icing on the cake.
In my plan for Grimthorpe (inspired by Grimsby and Cleethorpes)in the 60s, I have a holiday resort town, a commercial dock, a fish dock, 2 main passenger stations, goods yards, 2 mainlines - London ex-Great Nothern + Trans-Pennine ex-Great Central. Within the confines of the urban area, there is a coal fired power station, two gas plants, a cattle dock, a large brewery, and the resort terminus features a carriage washer, fuelling point, turntable, with an ornate fish and chip shop, large pier, amusement arcade, roller coaster, ferris wheel and helter skelter right on the beach.
Ornate fish and chips?😳😳
Great thoughts as usual! My experience of US is :
Everything is big but not everyone has a full basement or garage converted as the magazines suggest, even in Texas!
Locomotive running quality is far far better then the UK
Freight operations dominate like the real railroad and are taken very seriously with exact car switching and spotting with waybills train orders etc
Thus many layout are like a series of connected Inglenook puzzles
The range of railroads makes it much more ‘colorful’ and interesting
Walthers cornerstone buildings appear in the US as often a Metcalfe do in the UK!
For your N gauge what to do next question, I once did an N scale layout split down the middle with one side US and the other UK. Half the time UP hopper trains thrashed through a northern English mill town, and half the time a blue diesel made its way across the texas desert…great fun….
I like the split idea! Will have to see what I fall on decision wise
Without trying to sound like a rivet counter Craig at 15:25 you say that’s a little class 20.
However, it defo looks normal sized to me 😜
Soz pal couldn’t resist the silliness - enjoyed the video, can’t offer any advice as I’m clueless - cheers 👍
Medium sized at best 😂😂
Do not forget double o dave, he called you a plastic yorkshireman in the last video
You seen episode 21 yet fellas… in particular 0:56 😇
Gawd Damn! 😆👌👌
Cheers for the idea at 12:22 in this video matey
@@doubleodave 😁
As an American all I have to say to you is, THANK YOU! It's nice to know that an Englishman really Appreciates U.S.A. prototypes, And, greetings from the U.S.A.
In do, very interesting workings over the sea😁
@@IronHorseRailways Thank you very much for answering my comment.
I was lucky enough to live alongside the Allegheny subdivision of the Allegheny Valley Railroad in Lawrenceville when I lived in the US - I got to see shortline operations on a class III RR up close, with power from the Alleghency Valley Railroad, CSX, and Norfolk Southern regularly traveling past my house very very loudly. Personally, my favorite locos to see on that shortline were the AVR, I think their paint scheme is gorgeous! On my side of the river, there were still some sidings serving industry (both head and tail shunts), as well as what used to be a passing loop now regularly used as temporary storage for oil containers. Across the river were a number of storage areas which you could get a great overview of from a local bridge. While my real passion is the Darjeeling Himalayan Railway, and it's what I'll primarily be modeling, I do have a small yen to build a small N scale layout representing the AVR I used to live alongside.
Avr is great, personally I'm a fan of NS black, Csx blue and yellow is nice too if a little common - BN green too!
@@IronHorseRailways I must admit, I like the NS black, but only because there's a horse on it, and I'm a horse mad guy and have been since childhood. The CSX livery has its own charm too, and BN green is rather delightful. Maybe I just need to give up saying "I like x" and instead say "it's all pretty, it's trains!" and embrace the madness that comes with that!
As an American, I will share with you some other differences between USA & UK railways. I 'm basing this on videos I have seen of UK railways and personal knowledge of USA and Canadian railways. First, most of our railway tracks are set up for bidirectional operation. Signals are set up for both directions. Secondly, much of our railway network consists of a single track for many miles with passing sidings. On these sidings will be parked either a train going the opposite way or a lower priority train waiting for a higher priority to pass. Thirdly, we have many more level crossings. These are just a few of the differences between the USA ,Canada ,and UK railways. This is not to say one is better than the other. I happen to love USA, Canadian, and UK railways. Both models and prototypes.🇺🇸🇨🇦🇬🇧.Bill from California
A few good reasons why US layouts tend to be of a higher standard .For starters many have very large basements at their disposal . The model industries like the Cornerstone kits look as though they would justify being rail served especially in the modern era. The British equivalents tend to be more compressed and look too small . The most important one is that Britain has been playing catch up as regards running ability of locos. I had Kato Dash9s in the 90s with fly wheels whilst the UK had Lima Class 47s . Excellent video
As usual, we invent something and then just stop 😂
Hi, great video pointing out how a form of transport that was born in this country has been taken to higher levels in America, model railways wise I must admit it doesn’t really float my boat, they are however way ahead in Bluetooth operation, they had that system available a few years before Hornby adopted it for the Uk market, it would be nice to see things modellers like being available like rare livery coaches and locomotives instead of the usual blue and green livery items constantly being produced by the container load, I’ve seen so many Accurascale class 37’s in DRS livery for sale at so many retailers, I guess Accurascale assumed every modeller wanted one so they over manufactured more of them and overlooked the other livers that would have sold without any left on shelves like the Network Rail yellow livery class 97 which is a 37 in reality, modellers would like to see more variation and better price structure, Bachmann lowered the price of their class 31 because Accurascale’s model is better value for money because you get extra features as standard, you have to speed a lot of money to get a deluxe Bachmann model which has Working fans, tinted windows and a auto uncoupling system, the tinted windows aren’t for everyone to be fair but the auto uncoupling system should have been designed in more than just the tension lock system, keep up the good work, thanks for sharing.
Cheers stormy!
Nice video Craig , stick with finishing off the N as planned. US railroading has a lot to offer but for me continental HO is where its at. Can never be failed to be blown away with what can be done with mainland european scapes/ scenes. What makes continental HO better is the higher quality models , sheer amount of gear made. plus the variety of traffic they ship about. Modern outline in the UK is limited, freight traffic is bulk consignments, you could say only nuclear flask or cement traffic has the small shunting space , the aggregates traffic out of peak forest has a bit of shunting .
The great untapped resource in 00 is LRT modelling which offers so much potential, especially with tighter curves / street scenes /automated roadways. As for making tracks , a layout based on the southern section of the WCML was always going to be a limited affair as the WCML today is tedious. Its not helped that a lot of the rolling stock making tracks needs isnt made. The lack of the 325's , 387's & the LNWR liveried class 350's & the new 730's that are arriving. You could argue that the aggregate facility at Bletchley should have been incorporated to add some interest or even the emu sidings.
I actually have a German/Romanian layouts planned too - it's an excuse to model continental stuff and is codenamed "EuroTrash" 😂😂
So many projects!!
You pose the questions that make us think Craig! It takes me all my time to be up to,speed with BR, but when I see an US layout I will notice the things you pointed out for us. Rivet free zone- good boy! 😂
Excellent video Iron Horse Railways
Hey Craig, as you know, I model Canadian / American outline in my fictional layout. But, I do have prototype elements to keep it 'real'. I also run what I want as well. Rule 1 n all that. The variety is excellent, liveries etc are vast. I will still do other gauges, as I enjoy all things trains.
I'd go for the split, 009 is so much fun, I loved building my Nam'68 layout. Look forward to seeing what you come up with. Brian
Splits a good option, having to move the desk is a pain though 😂
Cheers Bri!
The Americans are now turning to shelf and micro layouts as many don't have the space either. I follow loads of American and Canadian modellers and you'll be surprised how many do small detailed layouts
I know mate, it's great to see!
I watch quite a few American layouts. Seaboard Central goes into a lot about "real ops" on your layout.
I love the American narrow gauge logging lines, they have some interesting looking locos. As for the rest I have no interest, same as for modern UK railways. If I want to see a diesel or electric I’ll stand on the main road and watch the lorries and buses go by🙄. Steam is king as far as I’m concerned. Also there is still a lot to be said for modelling UK as it’s not always greener over there, it may just seem more exotic. When I watch railway programs from around the world they all look like they’re using the same design of locos and in the same way (US, Aus and NZ). Go for 009 there’s some great models out there. The only problem I find with 009 is the manufacturers think we all want to model Welsh slate quarries. Love how the layouts coming along.
009 is definitely on my radar, I've got layout planned too 😉
Further to my comment as to my preference, I do applaud the American approach as well as their attention to authenticity and detail. You're right to highlight it and we can learn from it. I model German railways in N and find shunting a chore in the small scale. if I modelled HO or larger I'd take a different view. Note that German railways with the number of private sidings still lend themselves to a slightly different approach akin to the US model. Indeed there are also many privately operated railway companies too (aside from train operating companies operating freight and regional passenger services). One of the problems I find with British modellers is an apparent unwillingness to look outside the UK at overseas railway practice. Indeed there is a reluctance to look for inspiration outside of their chosen scale.
Leave your n guage layout as it is mate...blast some metal and hardcore , av a few light ales and you'll ponder on what to model on that end ... I'd say a station and a countryside type back area if poss... Cutting it in half would be a shame imho
I will admit American trains do have more variety in their loads they haul. Unfortunately most of the American layouts I've seen are boring open expanses with dead yellow grass or very rocky areas. Also their locos just seem to be huge hulking behemoths that all look basically the same. Many British layouts have lots of greenery, even in city/town scenes and have more detail. And English locos have an elegance to them with many different classes and liveries. Even though British trains have less varieties in the loads they haul at any one time I personally prefer the visuals of British layouts. But each to our own preferences! 👍
That's so funny you mention that, because we Americans think that all the different "Class 56, Class 60, or class whatever" all look exactly alike. I can only assume it all depends on which country you have grown up in.
I think that's a fact!👍
The prototype operations are not the only factor here -- not even the main one IMHO. You could easily design a UK outline layout the American way, given the space, mindset ... and couplers.
US model railroads are typically built in a larger area. An entire US basement -- the full footprint of the house -- is not an uncommon layout size. Even if you have the entire loft of a UK house, it's a much smaller space to work with -- not just because of the angle of the roof cutting down the footprint, but also because the house has a smaller footprint to start with.
But then ... US mainline trains are even more massive than US basements. Even with the huge spaces US modellers start with, modelling a full length class A freight train is impractical.
That has resulted in a different mindset.
On a typical US layout your view follows the train, whereas on a typical UK layout, your view stays in one place as a series of trains pass. This results in a layout designed for operation first, using representative, smaller trains. So it's normal to have multiple scenes depicted with plain track between them, following the train as it goes places. And they will often have a scenic classification yard instead of a fiddleyard.
The third issue is couplers.
The US has universally used a variant of the knuckle autocoupler far enough back in history that the changeover was completed before the vast majority of railway modelling. US outline models use a coupler which is similar in appearance, but has been adapted well for hands-free coupling and uncoupling ... and is old enough the patents have expired, so has been universally adopted.
Our trains ... don't. While we've had a scaled down version of that same knuckle coupler in use in this country in some fashion for roughly a century, it's never been our standard or universal coupler. There is no universal coupler for this country in real form -- and honestly no *good* coupler in model form either. Even using the US coupler on UK stock is less than ideal -- our rolling stock is sufficiently different that their standard model coupler just doesn't work as well for our purposes. Our buffers get in the way.
Not having a good universal model coupler makes large layouts which strongly depend on hands-free shunting an unattractive prospect. Where you do see "shunting layouts" in the UK, there is typically only one scene, generally set up for manual coupling by a single operator using scale style manual couplers, and the operational interest of going from A to B to C is not a feature of the layout at all.
If you do want to do this kind of modelling with UK prototypes, it's perfectly possible -- just not the default. As a start, take three or more complete layout plans which are much smaller than the space you have, and connect them together.
There are a few UK layouts built with multiple scenes like this -- check out "Hills of the North" or "McKinley Railway" for some (incredibly ambitious) examples -- admittedly both set in spaces that would make even the typical US modeller jealous. With the more typical space of a UK loft, garage or (decent size) shed you'd need to approach this on a smaller scale -- chain together a BLT, intermediate passing station and junction station, for example, and run the branch goods trains from the junction up to the BLT and back. You could also do this in an industrial setting, with exchange sidings and several industrial sites.
However, when presented with the kind of space necessary for this, most UK modellers immediately lay out a single mainline scene - because that's the UK modelling mindset.
Some great points made, although I would add there are plenty of US modellers who have smaller shelf layouts too, by choice and not by circumstances forcing it.
Boomer Diorama is one of my favourites!
Cheers buddy!
Absolutely agree with you here. I think with freight wagons it's a case of having somewhere to run them to, which I reckon is key to the US way.
The thing about Making Tracks is that there isn't much that goes on at the prototype Milton Keynes Station. So really the procession of trains is kind of prototypical. And right at the start of MT2, Pete Waterman said that nothing much actually happens at a station.
But if we were to build a UK outline layout in the way they do it in the US then you'd potentially have something which ticked all boxes.
I tend to model 70s and very early 80s as the railways to me were much more interesting back then. The 70s you still had a few pick up goods trains and, I believe the last Cattle train ran on the North Wales coast in 1975, 76 on the Kyle of Lochalsh line, although officially BR stopped carrying livestock in 72. So that's kind of within my time frame. Oil trains are another one. If you have oil sidings or something.
Interesting video and proposition as to the way we think about model railways. Personally I am happy to operate a “paradestrecke” type layout with a procession of trains going through a landscape.
Hi Craig I get were your going I'm trying something different and it's a American thing I'm doing 2 levels but the difference is. I'm doing 3 sheds 4 countries, English, American, Japan and a European. All can run through each country but also they run with in there self so. And they all have a stations and all have 2 industries for shunting, except for Japan were that's all about people moving. Then there is another twist each country is going to have a different season. Colin
There are also short haul freight lines in Japan, mostly for transporting one type of goods like oil or cement. Many are still operated by small bo-bo diesel locos.
Great idea 👍
@@azuma892 I am going to run goods trains but no industries for then to stop at
I would shorten the n gauge lay out. And do a 009 project loosely based on Ffestiniog railway
Lots of folks going for the chop and shortened method - hmmm!😉
Adopt the US practice but use British outline trains. I suspect that modelling something like a coal power plant on one side and a mixed freight terminal and passenger station on the other side of a larger roundabout type layout could help? I love an old school Roundabout layout if there are operating acessories.
I think the variety is in the American stuff that slot of stuff is transported vast distance in huge bulk and easier to transport by train. Also the industrial stull with so much space you can build by a railway and get a spur run to your business if there's enough traffic to warrant it.think diffrent here in ireland and the uk that the cities came before trains and in the states was trains first and stuff could be built and lines added as needed.
Make the space for a TT-120 layout instead 👍
Even if you shorten the layout, you can still run longer trains on it, seeing you do a OO9 Gauge layout would be interesting and those American layouts at model rail exhibition are impressive, great video
Cheers Simon, 009 will be coming at some stage ❤️
Hi Craig, nice update mate.
I think the American HO scene is well catered for by Bachmann, they also have the advantage of buying HO from all over the world.
When you combine HO and OO gauge rolling stock, there is definitely a size issue, like Marmite you either like it or not.
Americans also have a great advantage of having a lot of space in which to indulge their projects, dare I say it, a few probably run up a lot of debt too.
As for your dilemma, I would downsize the N gauge layout, if you have to move things about to access your desk then you're already at a loss.
Having a nice accessible work space is vital (in my opinion) to allow those creative juices to flow.
All the best. Ian
You're not wrong mate, having to move the desk is sub-optimal at best.. a fair bit of work involved in cutting it back, so, might have to wait a bit - for now it's a fiddle yard 😂
@@IronHorseRailways Nothing wrong with a fiddle yard.
@@ianobrien6908 i do enjoy a good fiddle in the yard!
What's even funnier, is that Bachmann has always been looked down upon by most Americans as very cheap and low quality. Now it seems as though they are trying desperately to shed that image in the American market. While in the UK, it's seems to be a completely different company with decent quality products. If I'm honest, it does seem Bachmann in America has gotten a bit better in the last few years. They have to, because other manufactures are producing some absolutely beautiful, very scale great running products that we could only dream about 10 short years ago.
one or two thoughts here... firstly, don't fill every available space with track.... less is more ( realistic) only have one or two 'key' industries on the layout, look at the real world. try to keep to an era and area for realism feel free to swap these , but try not to mix ( 66's on vacuum braked...) good options for variety and fun, waggon repair works, diesel or steam depot 'plank' ( I have both, 1963 and 2017) good way to enjoy your loco's and stock. also ignore all of the above and enjoy the hobby.... oh and P.S. before thinking U,S, railROAD modelers have the best... take a look at the general standards of THEIR 'O' scale compared to British railWAY modellers in 'O' gauge / 7mm
Hi keep doing the n gauge
I don’t really know enough about American model railways to properly comment but some of the ones I’ve seen are incredible. We seem in this country to be very linear in our layouts and won’t do more than 2 levels!!
I’d chop a bit off the n gauge layout and do a separate OO9 layout then you have the beauty of running one or the other or both!
Good point mate, I need to have a proper think!
Why not have a wide layout at the bottom and have an N gauge above, around the wall?
Where’s your Stetson lad? 🤠
Can't see it 😉😂
While American rail holds little interest, for me, you can see what is going on! The American companies don't hide their 'roads' behind tall fences, walls, or lines of trees, where getting witihin half a mile is strictly 'verboten'. You can get right up close to the rails, mostly unfenced, just about anywhere, and they even have railways down the middle of the 'high street', There is no need to carry a set of step-ladders to allow you to see over the parapet of bridges, or use 'selfie-sticks, and hope the subject is in the lens - or worse still, join the jostling, pushing, shoving crowd at the end of a station platform, and hope nobody steps in front of you at the critical moment. (We've all seen that footage of the chap leaning way out over the platform to get a vid of the steamie going on the opposite way, then nearly getting squished by the DMU blasting past the platform he was standing on!)
As you mentioned, American rail is much more colourful, compared with ours - where the only real colour is in the variation of weathering (rust!) on the stock, rather than mixed traffic. What I find amusing is that different rail companies all have their own track system, olften running parallel to another's, and yards apart - resulting in a maze of multiple cross-overs going in all weird directions.
That is why I think UK rail modelling seems to be stuck in around 1940, at the end of private wagon ownership, and the start of BR mono-block merry-go-round trains. Add to that - U.S. and Euro model trains have always used HO, not the UK's distorted-scale OO, which came about so that the motors of the time could be fitted into the loco's, and now we are 'stuck' with it. (temporarily ignoring N, TT, and O).
On the 'against' side, American trains tend to have multiple locos on the front, and often the middle, of three mile long trains, trundling along at 30 mph - and perhaps two trains a DAY passing by, and they - too - are slowly going over to single-function trains, eg grain trains, car carriers, etc. Also, generally, the rail infra-structure is in very poor condition, hence all the vids of wobbling or rocking bridges, loose rail joints, etc, that 'Jaw-Tooth' is known for filming.
Love Jaw Tooth, and as you said mate, captures some great examples of what you've mentioned!
Cheers!
'Merica!!!
'MURICAH!!! **Freedom intensifies**
I think it’s more about uk homes are far smaller than those in the USA.
When you say that American layouts have a better prototype for modelling, your argument doesn’t make much sense to me if I’m honest. I really couldn’t agree less with that statement.
There’s SO MUCH shunting and interesting movements going on all over the UK network, none of which involve ballast or stone. You’ve just got to look for it, they’re not all obvious. I think it needs more research if that’s a conclusion you’re coming to. My local example would be Ketton Ward sidings. Trains back in off a main line, into a siding and are taken away in batches by an 08 into a factory, over a level crossing and through a tunnel to get there. It’s all surrounded by rolling hills and the river Welland. What more do you want?! That’s just one example. You’ve got to look beyond the big ballast yards.
I never said there wasn't any interesting movements, I said they're far and few between - furthermore, I was referencing short lines more than main lines, small private customers that regularly receive box vans or one or two tankers - I don't know if any none military customers on the UK network that are in receipt of one or two tankers every week, nor any that receive small numbers of intermodal or 'box vans' - closest we have would be ferry vans I think - again, would love to see a current example of this type of comparable movement! Hopefully you can bring it to light as you did with the example you gave?
Genuinely looking forward!❤️
@@IronHorseRailways that’s true, there isn’t much of that sort of thing anymore. Since the introduction of block working, you don’t see a handful of wagons taken up a branch line. With the exception of the 08 taking 3 or 4 PCA’s at a time into the aforementioned Ketton works, there can’t be too many examples of that equivalent. There’s a good reason for that though, the American system doesn’t make any money. A lot of their operations run at a hemorrhaging loss! The difference is, in the UK, everyone apart from DB is making a profit.
I can think of another example of regular short train workings on branch lines too, it’s something that also comes from personal experience. Network Rail tripper services are contracted to run between the large ballast depots (Toton to Whitemoor is just for example). The trains always run, even if there’s nothing to send, because the operator gets paid to provide the service regardless. I’ve personally taken one Coalfish from Toton to Whitemoor, run round it, then brought it back again. From Syston to Helpston, that train is technically running on a branch line and again from Peterborough to Whitemoor. So that fits the description, albeit at a higher running speed because we haven’t let our railways completely fall apart, as well as grade separating them in the first place to allow that higher and safer running speed.
There’s also something similar to Ketton at Bardon Hill, where the main line train is backed into the sidings and a Rolls Royce powered shunt loco takes batches of wagons up a small branch and into a plant for loading.
I believe Lackenby had a whole system of trains run by shunt locos that delivered to the main line, but that’ll be all gone by now.
There’s a short timber train that runs infrequently in mid wales at the moment, 37 hauled to Chirk I believe.
I’m not sure if the China Clay trains In Cornwall are still batch hauled to the main lines any longer, but that could be another viable example.
I’m sure there’s more, I’m just not familiar with them all.
I don’t really see why that’s better than a block working approach anyway, I feel like it’s comparing apples and oranges. Taking single wagons to a customer once a week, down a dedicated branch, probably doesn’t even cover the fuel, maintenance or wages cost, it’s a bit ridiculous. Even seeing it on a layout requires mental gymnastics to justify it being there, which is probably what had to happen in America on the real world example too!
better scenery products are available i.e. better range of products for producing a steelworks. As for better layouts - I find some USA layouts they try and ram too much in the space and it looks messy/dont look realistic. But ive also seen some good steelwork shunting layouts too on youtube. As for your N scale layout, i would leave it as it is but have a coal mine or some other heavy industry in the free space you have available.
As a American, I know exactly what your talking about. All this stuff crammed in a small place is just tacky looking. It absolutely takes away for the layout and the overall impression. But I try to say whatever, it's their RR and whatever they like.
I think Id Shorten her up mate.
Makes it more manageable if you need to move it.
And build a seperate 009 layout should you wish.
Yep, I agree the Yanks do have more variety in their layouts, but I guess the subject matter in their 1 to 1 world has more variety.
Class 20 looks great btw. But who doesnt like a class 20. 🤣
Well I've had a second idea now but yes, long run, shortening might be the way forward 😉
Re: British modern image, i dont think your 100% correct. It depends where you look. Take Toton for example it recieves cars, ballast, engineers, stone and metal trains. And when the tripper trains arrive there are 5 yard drivers a day that shunt these trains as required, as well as making up trains, and all viewable from the famous bank.
The problem with modern image is apart from the adhoc stock moves and the network rail trippers, most of the trains are very long and hard to model in the space most people have available. The best time for modern image was rougly 1996-2002 when EWS took over and they started the enterprise trains, which saw wagon variety and different length trains. Plus the traction was better.
In regards to the American modelling, I fully agree with you!
We at worst run trains in circles and at best try to simulate a bisy termius in what ever region or era.
The Americans have prototypical operations down to a t, and you dont need a big layout. Some very good ops can be gained in as little as 6ftx18in.
I model british (1960s) and American, and have an American exhibition layout (videos can be seen). I find the ops you can run with American much more interesting, and when you get away from class 1 and into regional and short lines, the operations are so interesting. The space making tracks has done, you could accurately model some short lines and have more operation interest. Then you can get onto freelance railroading (making your own railroad up) etc, I could go on!
There is at exhibitions a certain snobbyness to American layouts. Have exhibited mine and my uncles N scale layout, alot of people wont entertain it because its not British, and wont even just look at it for its modelling value. The people who seem to model American though seem to be very friendly compared to SOME of the British outline modellers who will tell you whatever is wrong with your layout. Its just our nmra isnt as good as in the US.
2 very good channels are Distant Signal and Delay in block. They describe alot of what is being seen.
Sorry to go on a bit, but as you can tell you touch on something I agree with👍
No I'm glad of the conversation mate, I agree about the networking trips, but as you say - so difficult to model with limited space !
Shorten it, as the actress said to the Bishop
😂😂 I use that saying as often as possible, brilliant 😁
Hi Craig. You raised quite a few issues on the topic of USA vs UK model layouts. To a certain degree, I think you have confused better with bigger - *everything* in the USA is bigger! You say UK trains are hidden by buildings, but again the USA is a massive country. This is an act of God, the UK can't do anything about its small size. Yes, if you want to go down the prototypical route and restrict yourself to just one era and one industry, etc., then it's again down to geographical and cultural differences - vive la difference! Alternatively, a modeller can abide by Rule 1 and have what you want! Bad lighting in your train room: Sorry, but it's down to your non-railway decision to go with black walls. Again, (a variant of) Rule 1 applies.
If in doubt, blame a deity 😉
@@IronHorseRailways No one controls the deities!
Why not set up a channel called British rail,what if?. And use modern image as the Americans.
I used to model HO so, I'm probably going to make a separate layout eventually mate 😎❤️
Honestly, that's the direction I would take if I was interested in modeling British - when I first got interested in the hobby again, my big inspiration was the Allegheny Valley Railroad, and to be honest, the section of track I used to live alongside would make an excellent shelf layout, particularly in N - a passing siding regularly used as storage for oil tankers, three sidings still serving industry, all running fairly close to the Allegheny river, and across the river (easily represented by having a single rail width run across to the other side of a room with another shelf layout) were some major storage yard areas and industry service areas, connected by some very steep grades to cross the river on rail bridges between my side of the river and the other side of the river. Even just using that track layout itself would yield some wonderful operations, with the ability to use the yard on the other side of the layout as a visible fiddle yard - and who says your railway has to be prototypical for the country you're modeling? There is nothing at all wrong with modeling what makes you happy - if you draw inspiration for your track layout from other countries, even if you do otherwise model it as if it's in the UK, there is nothing at all wrong with that!
@@KidarWolfi think that is the way i will go, with modern image and use block trains with loads to different business. Why not. Even the modern loco shed is a waste of space. So i will put large windows in down one side,just to make it more intresting.
@@zebharris5233 Oh that sounds amazing with the idea of having large windows down the side so you can look inside - if you embrace a little ingenuity, you could still represent the architecture as it would be on the prototype by etching or painting the details onto transparent acrylic for your windows. It could give you a really interesting cutaway view that way, without actually being cutaway - sort of an X-ray vision thing.
@@KidarWolfmy layout at home is going to be modern,but as it is mine and i want to immerse myself in the model, i will ofcourse do as i please. It is a type of escapeism from the real world.👍
Afternoon Craig - a few thoughts: I'm kind of with you on the variety of North American traffic. I'm currently starting my first layout (N-Gauge) since returning to the hobby. I'm kind of doing a fantasy 70's-90's Cornish layout, EXACTLY to do the kind of trains/ops that you described. Kato do some nice n-gauge North American stuff, so maybe my planned tunnel can be some sort of inter dimensional gateway? Or have I been at the homebrew and mushrooms I found on the local cricket pitch too much again? 😵😜To throw another suggestion into the works, Swiss narrow gauge lines often run mixed freight and passenger trains on local services - passengers, tankers, timber, box/pallet vans...Kato, again...
I think you might be best off with shortening the layout to give yourself some space. I like the look of 009, too, but my budget is at salvage and kit bashing at the moment, so one thing at a time. Anyway, more power to your arm - I'll buy you a pint or three if you're ever down this way. Cheers from a (still) wet and windy Kernow!
Another for shortening 😳❤️