Exploring Object Bed Mix Buses in Dolby Atmos Mixing - (Part 1 of 2)
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- In part one, we dive into the world of Dolby Atmos Mixing and unveil an absolute game-changer that A-List mix engineers aren't talking about. That secret technique is known as Object Bed Mix Buses.
Join me as we explore the incredible capabilities and advantages OBEDs bring to the table. With our insights and analysis, you'll understand how Object Bed Mix Buses work, how to make your own, and how to compress and EQ your Dolby Atmos mix using this technique.
Do
You have a full 7.1.4 template for Atmos with down mix 5.1 and stereo for film that you
Are selling?
@PascalPayantfilms - I do have a video series in the works that I will be selling. I am working hard to complete that - just swamped at the moment.
The series will have an Atmos template to start, for the internal and external renderer. Followed by a new film template based off some recent Netflix deliverables. Super exciting stuff. I will come back to this comment and update you.
🤜🏻🤛🏻
the change in level at the beginning is headphones felony
I’m not sure what you mean.
@@shanegrush it means your intro tune is way louder than the spoken content and hurts his ears on headphones
I completely understand where you're coming from. It can be a real challenge to level match different types of audio content. Even with my best efforts, a mastered track will always stand out compared to a voice over.
Be thankful that you learned something. He didn't have to take the time to teach us his technique on such a new technology. Its not easy to put these videos together and please everyone. Thank you! @shanegrush for taking the time to teach us your techniques. You didn't have to do that 🙌🙌
Thanks for the kindness, support and maturity. I think that your ability to post that type of comment says a lot about your character. That’s the kind of person and action I look up to. 🤜🏻🤛🏻
Hi Shane, I'm a Dolby Atmos mixer myself, and I'm struggling like anyone else to make the things I do with conventional mixing *works* in Atmos. I use OBEDs since day one, in a slightly different manner, which now seems a little outdated and less smart (than your's). I'm currently watching your video, but I already love your template. It's so neat and well organized! I hope you'll don't mind if I'll ask a few questions at the end, at least if your haven't already respond to them ;)
Heck yeah, send them. I’m a big fan of helping if I can!
@@shanegrush I'll watch second part, then come back here ;)
I’d love to do a follow up collaborative video with you and help clear up some confusion around this topic.
Hi Brad, I’m down to chat. Shoot me an email: Shane.Grush@grushaudio.com
Great video man! Thanks for sharing
Thanks a lot, @heydaviddavis. I appreciate it.
Could you use an OBED as a compd aux, for reverbs and effects etc?
So a 7.1.4 track with a 7.1.4 instance of whatever effects sending to the OBED, to give full flexibility and fold down compatibility. And then use that OBED as the full aux for all instances of reverbs and delays?
The 7.1.2 limitations are antiquated now but Dolby have no intention of changing that due to compatibility
Hey @Ben-jv9rr ! You’d want to set up a separate set of aux sends for your effects before the OBED for maximum control. Then, the output of those aux tracks feeds the input of the OBED. I made a video on this! But yes, your fold-down compatibility is rock solid once you do that.
Link below to that video walkthrough.
Craft Surround Effects Using Your Favorite Stereo Plugins
ruclips.net/video/nbq90mOMVi8/видео.htmlsi=yAlLR-FaTNQdfTTA
@@shanegrush thanks man! Sounds like I’m on the right track!
Hi Shane, thanks for your video :) It is possible to do "hardware insert" on an OBED (inserting analog EQ or comp ) Thanks a lot :) ?
Hey @sound4label, I am not running any hardware in the Atmos world. I imagine it's possible to use a hardware insert, but my brain goes to "why?" If you're starting your Atmos mix from stereo mix stems there should be little need for processing.
Hey, nice channel.
I am having trouble including the meta data when I render out my ADM files. The option to "apply program level meta-data" is greyed out and when I load the ADM file into a new session, the audio is fine but the object meta-data is missing. Any idea why that would be?
Hey @TheRetroBurn! Could you tell me how you’re printing the ADM?
@@shanegrush sure. File > Bounce mix > wav(Dolby Atmos) > create master file(wav ADM) > Bounce
All clear. My render was fine. I was importing it to the new session as audio instead of session data. Thank you!
Glad you got it. That one got me on the first attempt as well! Take it easy!
Thanks for the video, definitely interested in this topic. I’m a little curious as to what the benefit of using auxes is rather than just using the object planner directly on a track. Is this so that it’s easier to pan one channel to any speakers of your choice as opposed to just using the planner alone? So for example you could send a guitar to centre & rear back if you wish ?
Wondering if this is wise when considering phase issues …
Thanks
Hey Stu, if your room is set up correctly, you will not hear or have any phase issues. Admittedly, setting up an Atmos mix room is not easy, and I will be making content to help people with that topic.
Regarding your question, the benefits of this OBED technique are what you've mentioned: 1.) You can pan/spread source material to multiple locations simultaneously. The stock panner will only allow you to have two pan positions, and some features that allow you to do something similar, but it only goes so far with the stock panner. The OBED technique helps you take that premise to another level. Ultimately spreading a sound source out more and making it larger than life. 2.) You can EQ and compress the entire mix if desired -- having greater control.
Your panning example above is correct - you COULD do that, but I’d encourage you to make decisions that feel timeless. As I said, bass can have a front-to-back panning right down the middle. I have not found another musical element that takes that panning well. This is where we have to experiment, push the envelope, and find what works for the art we're creating.
Also Shane, do you think A-list mixers add EQ/comp processing to individual channels or only on OBED which is the equivalent to EQ/COMP speakers group output rather than channels/stems output ? I hope I'm clear enough :)
I think this depends on the song, and the intention. If I had the need to make an Atmos mix pump more than the stereo mix I'd process the individual tracks or stems feeding into the OBED. If you're starting your Atmos mix from your stereo mix, and the stereo mix stems, well then your pumping should already be there for you.
This is why, at this point, I am doing my stereo production first, and then extending the artist's vision into the Atmos world. I think the process is more efficient. That said, the day an Atmos mix can exist without a stereo mix attached than I will probably find new paths.
Thanks for watching!
Thanks @@shanegrush for your answer , I want to produce and mix directly my music in Atmos, what would you suggest in that case ? :) (if I want to insert analog mastering EQ and comp somewhere ? :) Thanks a lot, so happy to be able to discuss together :)
@sound4label - well, the challenge there is the channel count. The Dolby Atmos Renderer has 128 channels. You'd need a ton of hardware to use it all around an Atmos mix.
do you have any video explaining how to set the channel you did for binaural settings and how it works? im lost there jeje
Pretty straight forward! The Binaural settings plugin is inserted on a Aux track in my mix template. Once you instantiate that the Dolby Renderer will detect that those settings are being controlled by the plug-in. I touch on this in another video. I’ll link it below.
Ultimate Guide to Pro Tools I/O Settings for Dolby Atmos Mixing
ruclips.net/video/mprNLWsroyc/видео.html
Tom Hardy with glasses is here to help us mix Atmos 👍
Calling me Tom Hardy is definitely a compliment to me, but probably an insult to him. 😂
have you found that using a Object bed removes the need for an Halo or Penteo Upmix? It seems that if I can essentially spread, for example a stereo stem exactly to what speakers in our 7.1.4 system that I would be recreating what Halo or Penteo does. My main concern is are fold downs of that same Atmos mix downwards going to be clean just like when using Halo or Penteo.
Hey @christurbiville! Yes and no. I am using Halo less and less these days. But I still use Halo in specific situations - for example, if I get a vocal stem with effects printed in it, I can separate the effect from the vocal a bit with Halo. It's not great practice or my preference to do this, but if the files aren’t delivered to my spec, I have to get creative.
Aside from that, remember that the OBED sits before the Renderer, so fold-downs aren’t altered or degraded. Just check your Trims and Downmix settings to ensure the mix behaves to your liking.
I’ve not used Penteo - sorry, I can’t weigh in on that one.
One more thought: another creative use for Halo is using it to help make stereo stems wider. Which can bring the Atmos mix to life. Creating multiple auxes, let's say three auxes with an instance of Halo on each. Set one to wide, the next to wider, and the third to the widest. I'll send a stereo stem to three auxes to help make a source wider without ruining it.
You can also try delaying one side of a stereo stem with a simple plug-in such as Avid’s Time Adjuster.
Question, you say adding height to an object does not go into top speakers. If that is the case how does it make the object 'Higher"?
No sweat, the difference there is between using the bed only, or using objects. If you use the bed and begin to raise the panning of a source you will hear it in the height speakers. Using objects only you have more fidelity, essentially, in your height panning. What I was trying to discuss is that panning something 50% in height using the bed will show up in the height speakers, but that same panning value using objects only will not. Greater creative control! Let me know if you have any questions and thanks for watching. 🤜🏻🤛🏻
Objects do not have any more “fidelity” than an object bed especially since an object bed is... object based.
You may have misunderstood my point. To reiterate, my point is that using objects vs. the bed alone will give the mixer greater fidelity or more increments in their panning positions. This affects how program material translates to binaural, etc.
You are still using the word "fidelity" as a differentiator. This simply isn't true. Also object bed (ones) vs objects, with regards to "increments" makes little sense. There is no difference in panning resolution between the obed and object.
I am sharing a difference between using THE BED vs. using objects, bud. Look it up in the manual. If you begin to raise the height of something output to the bed it shows up in the height channels really fast. If you do the same thing with objects it takes a lot farther of a pan to hear those in the height channels.
Hi Which interface do u use?
Avid MTRX Studio.
Im sorry, but what is an O-bed? do you mean the general dolby set up in the renderer with beds and objects itself?
you just used this word out of the blue, whithout explaining. - and there is no reference not even in the title. I am very confused if this is what Im even looking for or rather some new different unconventional use of beds and objects that Im not ready to learn yet.. :/ :[
OBED isn’t an acronym or anything, but it’s a shorter form of what is called an Object Bed Mix Bus. You’re essentially creating your own Bed with Objects. But yes, this is an advanced approach that the a-list mix engineers use, but they are not discussing much.
@@shanegrush cool, thanks for your reply. do you see essential advantages then in this manual approach rather than using a renderer? thank you! or is it financial benefit even? because the pro tools renderer isnt free..
You’re very welcome. This custom approach uses the Dolby Atmos Renderer. The OBED is essentially a custom path before the renderer input. The benefit of this OBED technique is in the translation and being more creative with an Atmos mix. It unlocks the ability to pan an object to multiple locations around the sound field simultaneously without compromising translation.
Regarding your financial question, Avid has an update coming where the Dolby Renderer will be integrated into Pro Tools (like Logic, etc.). And at that time, I’m sure this approach will need to be revised, but I’ll cross that bridge when that happens.
For now, mixing Dolby Atmos in Pro Tools requires the two pieces of software. I’m unsure if that decision was based on a limitation or a calculated move by Dolby. Good question.
I’m in this stuff every day. All I’m trying to do is make cool stuff and enjoy myself.
One thing I can share is that I was made aware of this technique, and my curiosity kicked in. Once I figured out how it works, I started applying it to my mixes, and the results blew me away. That’s why I made this video series. Especially, since the a-listers are sharing the templates around town and with friends, but they are not talking about it in public.
I really don’t know why people are bothering with Atmos since it’s basically no use for music. Everyone I know has stereo systems and have no plans on wasting money on an Atmos setup since is so stupidly expensive and totally useless.
It sounds like your experience must be limited. Have you heard Dolby Atmos in person?
If not, you should check it out and then participate in a discussion with more factual data. Your “stupidly expensive and totally useless” comment isn’t based on facts.
Your opinion is welcome here if you want a respectful and empathetic discussion.
dolby atmos can not only be heard in stereo (as a downmix) but even be created on headphones. a lot of engineers do this in the first place!
apple music and amazon has a lot of dolby atmos mixes. take a listen ..on headphones! ..its so different. its the future! @@shanegrush
These days cars sound system headphones ,mobile,TV and sound bar are equipping themselves with atmos..so in very near future it will be very affordable don't worry
@kundanpandey3340 - I agree. Which is why I’ve invested in this path. Change is always painful for early adopters, but the excitement far outweighs the pain for me. Cheers, and thanks for watching bud.