Lyle Mays Solo on James: What Is the Basic Structure?
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- Опубликовано: 29 окт 2019
- My theory course: dr-guyshkolnik.thinkific.com/...
Lyle Mays's solo on James (by Pat Metheny ) with a focus on the basic harmonic structure of the piece.
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Life wouldn't be the same without the unbelievable emotional impact of music from talents like our loved Lyle
Life wouldn't be the same...Yes. Thank you!
I personally think that Lyle Mays is the greatest jazz piano player ever to have walked the planet. You can hear this solo on repeat for days and it still will hit you in the heart......
I mean... How can I disagree with that? I feel the same way. I hear this solo and it's smiles and tears. So honest humble and at the same time so able and imaginative. Two other favorite solos that have a similar effect on me (more or less): Pat's solo on Coral (Keith Jarrett) from the album Quartet with Gary Burton (2008) and the other is Keith Jarrett's solo on Innocence from the album Personal Mountains.
@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer Yes there are other solos that have similar effect. But only Lyle Mays can do that repeatedly. Jarret has released dozens of records. Lyle unfortunately so few.
@stepanok
I totally agree. Its the same with his Solo from „Better Days Ahead“ from the Album „The Road to You (Live)“.
Lyle Mays was 100% about the music. Bless him.
absolutely.
It's insane how he could play that so effortlessly, everything improvised at a quite high tempo. What the heck.
Apart from talent and good taste, It’s coming from having a lot of music in his “bank account”. He had “deposited” a lot of music into it, from playing classical music songs and jazz…
Thank you Lyle for all you wonderful songs !
Brilliant. Still. Just. Brillaint. Thank you so much for what you do. I would loooove to spend more time doing a deep dive into Lyle's music, and you're a treasure for how you unveil what he's doing.
Thanks so much for sharing your analysis of Lyle solo, great work! :)
What a wonderful examination and articulation of Lyle's intentions, Guy. "James" is one of my favorite Pat & Lyle tunes because it is one of their best examples of extraordinarily technical elegance and melodic and harmonic beauty, imho. As always, I especially enjoy your intuitive and insightful observations and crystal clear commentary.
Thanks for your amazing analysis of this highest level of improvisation.
Miss Lyle. Thanks.
Thank you very much.
I love your breakdown of the structure of Lyle Mays piano parts on James. Even more beguiling on that Offramp record is Lyle’s odd harmonic patterns on the piece Au Lait. Would love to hear your interpretation of that one, Guy.
Good job!!
Thank for the inspiration
I really love the way you espose these analysis! You're clear and exaustive at the same time...and even if I'm "only" a non-professional guitar player I manage to grasp most of the contents. Above all you succeds in convey your love for this great great contemporary music. Thank you from Italy
Thanks Giovanni! I'm so glad to hear that you connected with the content - honestly, a lot of the theory taught today is making things difficult to musicians. the main reason is focusing on the ground level, where you have countless types of chords and scales, instead of the deeper levels of harmony - where things are much more clear. I explain more of that on my Instagram account (by the same name). Thanks again!
This is great! Thanks for posting.
Thanks John!
Thank you!!!
The best tribute to Lyle Mays its earing his music ,with Pat Metheny group,and alone....and then just fly.....to secret worlds.
Yes, that's the best... Thanks Jose Luis!
Great walk through of an incredible solo in a beautiful song. Am I the only one who hears a nod to Giant Steps in the way he harmonizes that last bridge?
amazing video as always! It is very interesting as when we deepen the music (harmony, melody, form and structure), we can reach new sound possibilities, which are personal and generate a connection with the listener. I will share this video with my friends!
Thanks Andoni!
Fantastic explanation. I love this song and often play a solo guitar arrangement of it but I never really dug into what Lyle was doing. I'm blown away by this. SO good! thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Thanks John!
Thank you so much for transcribing and reviewing in detail this awesome harmony that Lyle Mays played so beautifully. He was one of the all time greats of jazz and contemporary style pianists.
Mines too, Bob. He was a composer-improvisor. His solos sound like complete thought-out compositions.
Thank you Guy! I think the last couple sentences you spoke in this video are gold!
Thank you for a great analysis of Lyles structures and inside look. I think Lyles body of work can be studied and restudied for a long time. RIP Lyle
thank you, Bill, Somehow I missed this comment, I agree with you, Lyle's upcoming book (done by Lyle and a close friend) will make this more accessible to musicians!
nice! thank you
Wonderful (again!). Thanks!
Thanks Daniel!
Fantastic analysis...and just masterful (as always) work by Lyle.
Thank you!!
Man, this is a great video. That solo is fantastic, and your analysis was fascinating and I learned a ton. His use of the melodic/rhythmic components of the original tune to metrically displace everything adds a whole additional layer of tension and complexity that really makes me miss this guy a lot. BTW, on the closing credits, you've been playing a thing for the past few weeks that reminds me of Sueno con Mexico - what is that??
Thanks, Steven! I feel the same way. You know, rhythmically speaking, in some earlier recordings of the band, there were a moment or two of rushing - not Lyle. His piano in the background is always so tastefully rhythmical. This is probably how he hears music: the right notes, placed musically on the grid.
Oh, and that thing at the end, it's just something I recorded here to experiment with background music. I might make one or two more. And thanks for watching the videos! :)
I love your videos, Dr. Shkolnik. I come from a family of, putting it frankly, musical geniuses. My father was a gifted musician and arranger; my maternal grandfather a violinist (with full scholarship to Damroche/Julliard at the age of 11 for violin). I humbly admit that their genetic wiring may have skipped me for the most part; it's why I enjoy watching you, for it gives me a glimpse into their heads if only for a few minutes [;^)
Really impressive analysis, and good explanations too. Thank you Guy. 🙏
Thank you Charles! :)
Finally !. Great to see this video and explanation . Pat´s Solo on the same track stick to the original chords, so it sounds refreshing when Lyle provides this variation, aligned with Steve Rodby.
Blows my mind how on earth, Lyle can improvise such singing , ¨ for the people ¨ almost ¨pop¨ like melodies over complex changing harmony. Just like Bach, he can be extremely logic , melodic and soulful at the same time. He really balances his equations (as he said in an interview ).
Is striking also, that almost everything on this solo is built SO tightly around the first two motifs, (even the repetitive melody over that final variation vamp ).
Things like the Alban Berg Sonata comes to mind with this extremely motivic improvisation.
(Lyle Loves Berg I´ve seen). Can´t wait to see Your possible takes on that. Cheers & congrats Guy!.
Same here, Sergio, I've always been fascinated by these pop-like melodies. Which we know how hard it is to design in the way he does. It's "easy" the same way Mozart is "easy." I don't know if you're a Mozart fan or not, but the thing about him, his melodies... I could listen to a flute quartet after not hearing it for 5 years, then listen to the theme of the third movement and... remember it instantly as if it were one of his top 5 melodies. (sometimes I think It would be healthy for Lyle just finally to say "Ok, Ok... I love pop music," :) The melodic design of the B and the A part in this video deserves a full semester on melodic and rhythmic design. About the Berg sonata, I've played it once in a piano recital (the only one I've ever done). Let me know if you have any specific thoughts about it.
@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer ( Frustrating to write an spirited lengthy response, and then BAM!, youtube messed up and Gone , Ha!. )
I Don´t think Lyle would be at all offended by this ¨ Pop ¨ preferences.
He adores Earth Wind and fire, Steely Dan, and the likes. This could be like the ¨Mozart¨ highest standard of Pop, which is a lot more than some present day use of autotune and sadly poor sorry to say ... music.
I think that really good Pop music, is one of the hardest genres, with nowhere to hide.
Speaking of motifs, and Berg ,
That an improviser come up with this rhythm and melodic designs in real time, is just mind blowing. Allas , All the greats did it (Bach, Beethoven, Mozart )
It took me a lot of years to realize what Lyle was doing ( beyond my mere enjoyment ) , by artfully designing this manipulations and connections using very little source material, as in the Berg Sonata ( Almost the entire piece derives from the first 3 phrases ). I was so obsessed by this work, that i learned entirely too. Almost all Lyle said in some interviews, i took it as if i were his student and checked out this and that.
There is a moment in the Alban Berg Sonata (The slower second theme), in which a Chord is almost verbatim of something Lyle Played on the Expanded Improvisations Album, where this kind of harmonic language is much more present than in PGM stuff ( And probably the least ¨ Pop ¨ for some listeners that might not be into it and thats OK too ).
My Dream video would be a full length Documentary of Lyle in which he talks about all this in detail.
@@SergioValenzuela There's a bug with RUclips, I think. A big chunk of this message was also erased, luckily I used the undo on my keyboard, and it reappeared!
Have we spoken about the Lyle article in Gil Goldstein's book?
There's also the program with Marian McPartland, where he demonstrates motivic development. I guess you already know about this stuff, but just in case, he really goes deep into the problem of chords and composition stuff.
Also, have you heard the live recording of the group from 2009? He's wild there! Dark and chromatic more than ever... it's on Apple Music now. How is it going with your composition?
@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer
That´s annoying!, glad you got it back!.
I Have that Book !, and read that article many times, also the (dear) Marian McPartland show. (Love the bit where he mocks the real book changes of Stella by starlight :) )
Not Sure about the 2009 recordings You mentioned, Metheny Group song book tour ?, is that the one with a crazy quasi barroque 3 voice solo over James i think...
i also transcribed a Solo from better days ahead that is more caracteristic of this last days with PMG...
You ask about my composition?
@@SergioValenzuela Yea, I figured you knew all that stuff already. And you've probably heard of the podcasts "about the music" where they talked about the making of Wichita (apple music - just in case). Anyways do you know the part is Marian McPartland where Bill Evans demonstrates the basic structure of The Touch Of Your Lips? He was connected to the spirit of Schenkerian Analysis, studying composition at Mannes.
And yes, interested in your composition.
Beautiful lesson maestro thank you!
Thank you my friend! 🙏
internalize, great point and goal, sir!
Thank you so much
Thanks Nello!
Thanks for helping me appreciate this music even more
Of course! It's my pleasure!
And Pat wisely lays out here so Lyle can do his thing. Perfect.
Great analysis!
Thank you! :)
Thank you! Would love to hear your analysis of some of the music from the group Oregon
Great video explanation! Great job!
Thank you so much Renato!
Amazing !!!thank you!!!!!
Thanks man :)
Wow! Thank you, this is incredible. I really love how you showed how Lyle made this tune his own in his solo by coming up with his own chords. Lyle's way of doing this is one of the main things that draw me to him, but the way he does it here is more of a reharmonisation than the usual way of finding chords that go along with the ones written. Do you think Lyle had thought about these new chords ahead of the solo or came up with them on the spot? I've been starting to understand more about Lyle's way of thinking and in how he doesn't see composition and improvisation as all that different. Lyle has said that when he and Pat were composing music, he'd exchange a solo spot for an opportunity to take the piece in a different direction with composition. We see that in tunes like End of the Game, Minuano and 5-5-7 (he played a piano solo in this tune in the first version of it). But here he still messes with the composition, even in taking a solo. I used to think that Pat was selfish in how many more solos he played than Lyle, but now I understand that it's Lyle's choice to add to the compositions in exchange for a solo. It really shows how he and Pat differ and complement each other. Lyle would sacrifice his chance in the spotlight for making the compositions more special.
Matt, I'm sure he designed it ahead of time with Steve knowing the exact progression on bass. That band was so right and smart about everything. Pat took many solos - but only he can play these long solos on top of extended chunks of composed material music - like in part one of The Way Up starting 26:30 (when the opening and part one are on a single track). As you're saying, Lyle is always designing things - slowing or composing. He was such a virtuoso in the early days of the band, so from then on, he started a process of making composition and soloing one thing.
I liked it how he's back to being a monster soloist on Speaking Of Now though - I think It's healthy for him :) and It added so much to the band. As much as he emphasizes his interest in classical music and equations and math - he's a very passionate musician who loves songs and pop music too. Pat is very comfortable talking about how to him Karen Carpenter's singing is no less than Coltrane. I think It's a good thing, he fully accepts himself.
P.S I didn't know he used to solo on 557!
@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer Good point about Steve being aware of what Lyle wanted to do. The interesting thing about James is how much the PMG changed the tune as they played it over the years. The reggae version they played in the mid 80s was strange, but it showed what a flexible tune Pat wrote and why it's his most popular tune.
I really like how Lyle got so many solos on Speaking of Now. And yet of the four, only Proof is in the context of a more traditional jazz solo.
I have a recording of the first time they played 557 in 1988. After Pat's solo, Lyle plays one and then Paul plays a cymbal solo before going back to the head. I don't think there's a key change at the end either. It's interesting to hear the earlier version, but Lyle's contribution to the composition adds more than his solo.
@@matt-spaiser Pat released a few live albums of the group recently. On one of them, they play James only 10 days after it was composed. It's on apple music, you got to listen to it :)
@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer I've had these recordings for years. But aren't they all bootlegs? I suspect that once Pat finds out they will be removed.
@@matt-spaiser You know what It's already on Apple Music so maybe he's behind it? A while ago he talked about these Japan gigs from 2009, specifically I recall on Lyle solos on To The End Of The World that he thought needed to be released at some point. Anyways I'm glad it's out! :) Btw, do you know the Bill Evans radio program with Marian McPartland?
Most of my life i would love bringing home a new PMG album and always had this, ecstatic anticipation of listening to, and reveling in, what new and often poingnant theme Lyle Mays would bring to life. It is the music I still choose, above all others, to listen to most often. So sad that there will never be any more beautiful and heartfelt music coming from fortth from that brilliant mind and loving soul.
I hear you Bill… let’s cherish and be thankful what we got from this couple. Unbelievable 🙏
Thanks!
Thanks Chuck!!
You are badass man Thanks
Oh thanks, Dennis! How about this solo huh?
great stuff!
Thanks David!
שיו גיא, איזה יופי! תודה
great analysis
Thank you!!
pure genius...
Very good lesson, I very apreciated your explanations. Thanks a lot, regards by Paolo from Milano Italy
Hi Paolo! I listened to this solo again last night. It's so beautiful and emotional! I'm glad you liked the video!
Brilliant solo
Unbelievable - pure music
Lyle was incredible!!!
Yes, He was. It hearts hearing the words "Lyle was.."
Wow wow this is amazing stuff bro!
Thank you! Did you know that solo?
I didn’t! It’s pretty mindblowing.. so accurate and lyrical at the same time, and also - it’s so Lyle! His signature on that tune... superb
This is amazing. Lyle was pure genius ( to me ) I got to meet him on Maui.
Absolutely fantastic solo isn’t it …
I just enjoy listening to these amazing chords. sometimes its just enough with your piano and that great Nord machine. The bass just trying to keep pace with the song chord changes. vid excellent again.
Thanks Bob (am I right about the name?), sounds like something Lyle came up during a soundcheck with Steve. The A part harmony is logical, but the B part, that II - V - I descend, getting all the way doing to G#m7 - C#7 - F# and THEN an unexpected skip to Em7 -A7 - D. That skip not logical. It's surprising and emotional. That's who he is.
@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer Its Bob, Rob or Robert. It don't really matter Guy.
Thanks Robert :)
@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer I like that unexpected stuff when the rules seem to be broken, but if your ears like it why not. A movement is just what it says I think. Chord progressions with rhythm or beat and a melody have got to be the trinity
love James Taylor
This is really great, but just over the event horizon of my very limited knowledge. I think I need something a bit more basic to start off with - any suggestions?
I've listened to this solo again many times since this video (I've kept this version of James on my phone for a few years) and I'm still hearing many new things in it thanks to you. What most comes to mind is a big band. I'm hearing a big band in these chords and chord voicings, and what Lyle is doing here reminds me what many old big band charts do when developing a theme. I'm almost expecting Lyle to step on the pedal that turns on the horns though his MIDI piano!
Like he did in Song For Bilbao! You're the first one who mentioned big band, I've been thinking about that too, but in the context of the Ouverture or The Way Up, when they get back to the central motif,(the last minute of it) Lyle ( I believe) deconstructs it with these massive chords. It has always sounded to me like something coming from the tradition of big bands. You know what I mean?
@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer I was thinking Song for Bilbao, but he had been using the horns on MIDI piano since the Still Life (Talking) tour on the Minuano interlude and Third Wind outro.
I've always described Lyle's sense of "comping" as being far more like "in real time orchestrating". Sometimes being very big band, others more like Gil Evans, and others like Debussy. But all really - just Lyle being Lyle and not accepting being lazy with his left hand and just comping chords. He is, at all times, a 10 fingered orchestra and he deploys it with full effect.
Hi from what record is this version please?
@@facelen4321 This was not released on any record. It was part of the concerts recorded for The Road to You, which is why it sounds so good.
Amazing example of substitution of harmony thanks !! what I'm not sure off is how the bass line cope with this, does the bass line continue to play the regular chords or he follow Lyle?
Hey Guy! Thanks! Yes, Steve Rodby is fully aware of the progression - he had the changes in advance for sure.
Stanley Clarke "School Days" quote at 1:19
So that's where he got it from :)
hello guy ! thanks a lot for your wonderful work ! a question : to start the song, you think I, V first inversion,VI, IV, V, I . I understand this because you have smooth bass descending movement; but for me, it's I IV VII III VI, IV (instead of II), V (sus), I : D, G , C#m (5b), F#m, Bm, G, Asus, D, IV (instead of II) : I'm thinking logical "circle of fives"...do you agree ? You choose to simplify for better comprehension, isn't it ?
Beautiful thank for this man. Hadn't heard this before but Lyle Mays is the god of piano solos. Heads up your #lylemays is spelt wrong :P
Thanks man! He is! (and thanks for noticing the spelling! :))
What are the substitutions at 1:30?
One of my fave Pat tunes and one that I can play on the guitar. Nice analysis. Do you know which James its named after?
Taylor!
@@matt-spaiser I sat behind Pat at a James Taylor concert one night. For most of the night my eyes were fixated on Pat's every movement trying to see what he liked. A bit obsessive, but, well, I was. Another Pat/James moment was when I saw Pat demonstrate the Synclavier promotional event at Berklee. Before Pat played a sample recorded the day before he told a story. In NYC he had a mic set up in order to sample an audience members voice that he would then play all over the guitar neck. He said he didn't have his glasses on or contacts in and so he had no idea who it was until he heard the voice. He then played the sample and played all over the neck. Of course it was James Taylor. (Lest you think I am stalking you I just happened to want to respond to this comment and after saw your name! Weird!)
@@davidfleuchaus So, I guess that would mean it's possible that James T (virtually) sang the song named for him...before he ever heard it !? Lol, Amazing!! That's a great story, thank you for sharing it!
some pretty heady stuff here ! thank you the two negatives must be tuba players.... and I Iike tuba music
I see why Lyle was interested in software coding
Thanks bunches for your wonderful video! Can you please tell me the kind of keyboard you're using in this video? Thanks!
Hi, Thank you very much! :)
I'm using the Nord Stage 2 88HA.
@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer Thank you so much for the info Sir! xx
I love this explanation and I am not a musician .....
You're not a musician but you understand the music, Ivan! Thank you!
Amazing stuff. Is this Lyle solo from a certain live recording?
Thanks Benjamin! And yes, it is! ruclips.net/video/N45vLwEvL00/видео.html
@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer Was wondering the same thing thanks!
Great analysis! What I don’t understand with these reharmonizations is what happens to the bass lines. The bassist cannot predict every move, and follows the original structure of the song, so what are the chances that bass and piano clash with bad dissonances? On the other hand, things happen so fast that dissonances does not last in your ears…
Lyle clearly had a part with his "solo changes" written out for the bassist to read and/or learn
Where is this version of James from? It's not the original one, on the Offramp album.
Look on RUclips for Pat Metheny group James 90’s
It's not so amazing the end result as it is the thought that goes into it from the very start of composing. It's almost as if Einstein's famous equation, E=mc2 was taken at face value and not understanding the complexities of the math behind it. That's where I'm at: from the outside looking in. Thanx Doctor. You helped me scrape away some of the ice on the windshield. Nicely done.
Thank you, thank you!
lyle no words
Oh yeah…
@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer you also brilliant
@@MsRiccig thanks Ricky 🙏
Anyone know what album this version is from?
It's a recorded live version :) ruclips.net/video/N45vLwEvL00/видео.html
Which Version of James is this?
It’s on RUclips, look for Pat Metheny Group - James ‘90s
I would swear he's quoting Bill Evans' Peris' Scope at 10:42.
(15 seconds into the recording on Portrait in Jazz)
che assolo di Lyle...e' pazzesco...
Superb piece...I still don't know who "James" refers to. Not that it matters, but does anyone know?
Pat said the name refers to James Taylor. In fact on their set lists back in those days they listed the tune as “James Taylor”.
@@JohnnyBeeDawg Exactly 😀 Have you heard the very first version of it? They have released some live recordings on apple music Spotify, and on one of them from 1981, I believe there's a recording 10 days after it was composed. it's slow and sweet - like a Carpenters song :)
@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer I have not heard that early version, but will look for it. Thank you for that, and this video! I’ve had this solo for many years on a bootleg recording , and have always thought it was my favorite version from Lyle. Nice to see you play it.
🎶♾🎵
:)
This is funny,,,,,,In the song JAMES if you listen very closely it sounds like the theme for TAXI,now who plays this theme?but of course its Bob JAMES like the name of the song JAMES I always associated it with.
Now listen to BOB JAMES and it seem that he like this style of music I'm not a big fan of B J but whenever they play a tune of he's I know his him.Is like CASLOS SANTANA you know unmistakably he's style and sound.
Jorge Carretero the James is James Taylor
Great analysis. So I went and listened to that Lyle Mays solo at ruclips.net/video/N45vLwEvL00/видео.html. In the first chorus, Lyle and the bass player play the original changes. On the second chorus, the they take the alternate changes you transcribed. So Lyle composed an alternate harmonic path ahead of time, for bass and piano to play. I was getting scared that Lyle came up with this during the performance, and was I wondering how the bass player could have figured out what to do on the spot. Worry not.
this mays assolo is only one thing: h e a v e n ...
It’s filled with so much joy