Great terrain videos. Suggestion for the streams or rivers is that even though using a straight strip of painter's cloth there can be some curving of the river. You would do this by making the banks wider in some areas and smaller in others. You could also do more than one to paint to suggest different seasons especially for winter vs summer. Then add small groups of flowers for spring or leaves for fall using velcro dots. When painting the water think about using several shades of blues, greens and browns etc. The darker colors indicate that the water is deeper and does not have to go directly down the middle. Look up and research pictures of streams and rivers to see how it appears in nature to better replicate with painting for your project. Adding in a removable walk bridge and other types of bridges adds to the terrain and to the play when gaming.
Definitely agree with everything you said here. If I were to remake it I would have a wider variety in the thickness and definitely change the color. When using resin poured rivers I tick with browns and yellows for the river bed and definitely looks more realistic.
absolutely love your videos!!!! I plan to make flexible roads and rivers before spring is over for my D&D game..... I'd love to see more crafts of yours.
@@RedBeardBaron I actually went out and bugh everything I need for me to create them myself along with some spray foam to make rocky outcroppings that The Terrain Tutor shows as well as foam board to make some dungeon tiles or possibly some large structures
Doing this technique on a Kill Team board today, looking grate so far, I mixed this and your flexible road video. Just waiting for my first layer of calk to dry and start painting.
Great stuff man!! Will defenetly use your technique ! Love the fact it's flexible and adaptable to different terrain/elevations. The render is also great.
Red Beard Baron defenetly. I don't do wargamming ATM but this system will work just as well for tabletop rpg ! I'm gonna make a tutorial soon about scatter terrain and concerning the rivers i'll credit you & link this tutorial concerning rivers. If that's ok with you of course.
You should have more subscribers. Definitely going to be making this and experimenting with the same techniques for other things like roads and grasslands.
This tutorial is great! I have never thought of using clear caulk to simulate a river but the results speak for themselves. The plastic bag to replicate the river turbulence was a very good idea but I can see what you mean about it being sticky! I will certainly use this idea in the future. Thanks for sharing this.
Looks great though I have no idea why everyone makes water blue. Rivers and streams are generally greenish-brown, shallower water being the color of the detritus at the bottom. Also if you have rocks on the water's edge there would certainly be some in the water itself. Have you ever tried using scrap vinyl flooring for roads or streams?
That is true, just like everyone makes trees/grass bright green when they often are more yellow tone. If I made this again I would probably use more brown tones. I have used scrap vinyl for roads in conjunction with printed graphics of cobblestones. Actually turned out pretty nice.
Using vinyl flooring strips sounds like a good option. I think that the painter's cloth is used as it is easier to roll up to store when not in use. A possible option could be to use a combination of vinyl flooring, floor tiles, painter's cloth and/or other fabric. You could also use velcro strips along the edges, ends and other places to help hold them in place or help prevent the wrinkled edges.
Has this river held up? I see that DAP 3.0 crystal clear has terrible reviews for the yellowing that occurs after some time. Have you experienced this?
I have been watching your videos for some time and I have wondered if you have considered gluing some of the fur to the edge of your rodes and rivers to help them blend in more. Would that work or look silly?
Best idea I’ve seen. Thanks. What type of paint did you use for river? I don’t recognize those tubes. Also, how do you manage the little white strands of the cloth?
Howdy RBB, just gotta day that your channel is none of the best that I've seen. Your techniques with the caulk and canvas are genius. That aside, I was just curious as to what you use to seal your flexible terrain? Do you think PVA glue or a spray adhesive would effect the flexibility? Again, amazing work my friend!
+Ronald Shields Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed the videos! I seal most of my canvas based terrain with either Pva or cheap matte varnish spray, find either does a great job protecting the paint.
You could definitely do that if you are wanting to make more turbulent rapids and such. Just make sure you give the caulk a few days, but since it is arcylic based it should take paint nicely!
Red Beard Baron Sorry, I'm just a little confused and was hoping you could clarify something for me. If I'm not mistaken, you use latex caulk for making your dirt roads, etc. The clear caulk is also latex/acrylic based, not silicone? Thanks again for your videos. Makes washing the dishes way more bearable! I've rewatched your videos over and over while washing just because I enjoy the way they're made and the quality of them.
Thanks! I went back and looked at my tube and you are correct it is silicone. So I tried taking some white at dry brushing over the waves and the silicone took the paint, but would be wiped off pretty easily. However, I took some gloss varnish and lightly coated the dry brushed sections and that seemed to seal it in place. Your other option could be to put a layer of modge podge over the caulk since it takes paint a little better than the silicone.
Would it be possible do make a swamp/ocean battle mat with this technique? Was planning on printing a top view crocodile, coat it with white glue then stick it down on the paint, let it dry then put the clear caulk ontop, making it look like the croc is swimming in the water :)
I have had that happen with canvas before, here are my 2 solutions. 1. Cover the back and edges with duct tape...keeps from fraying and warping 2. Cover edges and back edge of canvas with caulk to keep the fraying/warping in check.
Sounds like that could be expensive in duct tape! Will give the caulking a go when the weather warms up and I can open my windows wide to air the fumes.
I have tried covering a whole piece of canvas or other fabric with a thin layer of caulk (about one tube per 3x4ft sheet) in order to make a non warping, flexible, non fraying surface. From there, you can draw out your shapes for river or road segments and then cut them out when everything is painted and caulked. I have found success with this. When you cut the segments out, just go over the edges with what ever color of paint to hide the white edges. Might be worth trying?
I have now watched this video three times. I really like what you are doing with this and want to try it. My issue is that I have a bunch of JR Miniatures Muddy River flexible rivers. If I make some, I would like to match those to expand what I have rather than buying more of the JR product (which I like). Would you be able to recommend some paint colors to try to match the muddy rivers that JR produce rather than the blue rivers you made?
Based on what I've seen on their website I would use burnt umber as the darker browns wet blended with yellow ochre to create the lighter sections near the shore. For the green sections in the middle of the river I might use an olive greed.
Great concept. It looks a lot easier and cheaper than the water-effect resin. My only concern is the tendency of caulked cloth to curl at the edges rather than laying flat. A friend of mine made dirt roads with brown caulking on felt but they curl up a bit, creating an unrealistic shadow. I see a similar tendency with the canvas. If one were willing to sacrifice the flexibility a hard board base rather than canvas might be the answer. Larger bushes on the shore that overhang the edge of the canvas might disguise the curl. What do you think about laying the caulking down on a full width sheet of wax paper for the build process and then, after all is done, removing the wax paper? Do you think that the caulking would still curl?
The canvas does have a tendency to curl, I used a duct tape backing to help counteract the effect, which worked ok. Someone on TMP has said that they coat both sides of the canvas with the caulk and that gives enough weight to the caulk to prevent curling. Thanks for watching!
Both good suggestions, Rusty. Alas, neither is flexible enough to flow down hill. On the other hand, few tables would require more than one or two sections to flow down hill. Most of my games with rivers involve valley floors.
As Michael said vinyl tile tends to stiffen quite a bit once either pva or caulk is placed on it. That being said vinyl is a hidden gem of basing materials...I use it for figures, tree bases, and for building bases. Thanks for watching!
Bran Harin I either buy them for cheap from eBay or buy the army painter tufts from miniature market. You can make your own if you have access to a static grass applicator.
I don't even know what a static grass applicator is, but I think I'll get some of those from that miniature market. Do you have a link to where you specifically get them by chance?
About the same. You can coat the backside with caulk along the edges or even back the canvas with duct tape to limit the warping, but that is one of the limitations to flexible terrain.
@@RedBeardBaron Would it be worth revisiting this topic a year from now (or at some later date)? I only ask because I truly favor "flexible" terrain pieces as they afford easier transportation/stowage. However, we know having nice looking terrain adds to our gaming experience so curling edges concerns me regarding flexible river portions.
I wonder if you used heavy items along the edges while drying if this would help with the buckling issue? Or possibly using double sided tape on each edge underneath to hold it down to the table top or working surface.
@@sirrathersplendid4825 Yes the jean fabric may give you issues with fraying on the edges. The way around that would be to do a double row of straight stitching and/or a zig-zag stitch to help prevent the fabric from coming apart. The painters cloth has been made not to come apart. Also adding duct tape to the back of your project gives stability and would help with lots of use.
I made these with a static grass applicator and colored sand from a hobby store. I used to buy them on ebay, but they are of course more expensive than making them yourself.
If I had a dollar for every time I heard someone intentionally mispronounce “caulk” as “cock”... Anyways, thanks for the tutorial, this is what I was looking for!
looks pretty good, it´s waaay more practical for actual table gaming. Im gonna try this thanks for sharing . I was wondering if someone have tried to make a river with one of those tranparent plastic sheets that some computers have in the screen, it has a weird depth effect , wonder if there is a way to combine it with this. PS. Excuse my poor English
Finally this is the video out of many watched that gave me the courage to add water to my train layouts thank you
What a great tutorial. Shows how to make rivers not just with a water effect without resin but also flexible! I rate 10/10
1:41 “that’s the great thing about this cawk, it can take a beating”
Yeah, that’s unfortunate.
I would like to see it on a table with other terrain just to see how it looks. Great tutorial!!
Great terrain videos.
Suggestion for the streams or rivers is that even though using a straight strip of painter's cloth there can be some curving of the river. You would do this by making the banks wider in some areas and smaller in others. You could also do more than one to paint to suggest different seasons especially for winter vs summer. Then add small groups of flowers for spring or leaves for fall using velcro dots. When painting the water think about using several shades of blues, greens and browns etc. The darker colors indicate that the water is deeper and does not have to go directly down the middle. Look up and research pictures of streams and rivers to see how it appears in nature to better replicate with painting for your project. Adding in a removable walk bridge and other types of bridges adds to the terrain and to the play when gaming.
Definitely agree with everything you said here. If I were to remake it I would have a wider variety in the thickness and definitely change the color. When using resin poured rivers I tick with browns and yellows for the river bed and definitely looks more realistic.
absolutely love your videos!!!! I plan to make flexible roads and rivers before spring is over for my D&D game..... I'd love to see more crafts of yours.
Very nice! I hope to be revisiting more medieval/fantasy terrain soon!
@@RedBeardBaron I actually went out and bugh everything I need for me to create them myself along with some spray foam to make rocky outcroppings that The Terrain Tutor shows as well as foam board to make some dungeon tiles or possibly some large structures
Doing this technique on a Kill Team board today, looking grate so far, I mixed this and your flexible road video. Just waiting for my first layer of calk to dry and start painting.
Oh awesome! That sounds like a great idea for a kill team board! I may have to try something similar!
This is the best river video I've seen.
Thanks! These rivers have definitely served me well!
Red Beard, thank you! Was looking for a cool water effect with low bank lines for ease of miniature travel, and this should be perfect.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great stuff man!! Will defenetly use your technique ! Love the fact it's flexible and adaptable to different terrain/elevations. The render is also great.
Thanks! The flexibility really allows you to make some very interesting battlefield scenario's that previously would have been a major headache.
Red Beard Baron defenetly. I don't do wargamming ATM but this system will work just as well for tabletop rpg ! I'm gonna make a tutorial soon about scatter terrain and concerning the rivers i'll credit you & link this tutorial concerning rivers. If that's ok with you of course.
Craken18
Excellent tutorial. Just finished a batch of these, easy to do and not a bad result. Thanks RBB,
Thanks! Glad they worked out for you!
Well done, man. I was attempting something similar with just plain caulk, but the canvas is a great idea to improve the durability.
I tried the same with mixed results, but the canvas was a game changer.
You should have more subscribers. Definitely going to be making this and experimenting with the same techniques for other things like roads and grasslands.
+arath duiliath Well thanks, appreciate it!
Looks good! I think I would have painted the edges of the canvas first though to stop it from fraying and being visible. Great idea
That would have indeed been a good idea! Spent way too much time later trying to clean up the edges. Thanks for watching!
Great video, I've been thinking of adding a water feature to my terrain, so will use this technique.
Let me know how it turns out!
I came up with this rivers like 10 years ago, loved it, funny to see it now on RUclips :)
This tutorial is great! I have never thought of using clear caulk to simulate a river but the results speak for themselves. The plastic bag to replicate the river turbulence was a very good idea but I can see what you mean about it being sticky! I will certainly use this idea in the future. Thanks for sharing this.
Thanks! I was impressed with how well the caulk works as long as you can deal with its noxious smell and tendency to stick to everything.
That looks really good. What a great idea.
I'm gonna try making some of this. I really appreciate your videos, great stuff!
Glad you enjoy them! Thanks for watching!
Making sure to enunciate "caulk", very good.
Learned lessons, underwent speech therapy, did what it took to ensure that my future videos would be free from psychoanalysis.
These are awesome, can't wait to make some of my own!
great idea, would the clear silicone become opaque over time. cheers John, nice channel
Looks great though I have no idea why everyone makes water blue. Rivers and streams are generally greenish-brown, shallower water being the color of the detritus at the bottom. Also if you have rocks on the water's edge there would certainly be some in the water itself. Have you ever tried using scrap vinyl flooring for roads or streams?
That is true, just like everyone makes trees/grass bright green when they often are more yellow tone. If I made this again I would probably use more brown tones. I have used scrap vinyl for roads in conjunction with printed graphics of cobblestones. Actually turned out pretty nice.
@@RedBeardBaron Thanks for the reply. i'm just starting in terrain making and your videos are extremely helpful, thank you.
Using vinyl flooring strips sounds like a good option. I think that the painter's cloth is used as it is easier to roll up to store when not in use. A possible option could be to use a combination of vinyl flooring, floor tiles, painter's cloth and/or other fabric. You could also use velcro strips along the edges, ends and other places to help hold them in place or help prevent the wrinkled edges.
Has this river held up? I see that DAP 3.0 crystal clear has terrible reviews for the yellowing that occurs after some time. Have you experienced this?
Still doing well, I would coat the clear caulk with several layers of varnish or it will attract lots of dust.
Great video. I am attempting one at the moment. Regarding the clear cualk. Could you use clear silicone instead?
Yep, the silicone stuff works as well! Just make sure to coat it with a gloss varnish afterwards.
I have been watching your videos for some time and I have wondered if you have considered gluing some of the fur to the edge of your rodes and rivers to help them blend in more. Would that work or look silly?
I really like the flexibility. Thanks for sharing, I'm definitely going to try this.
Thanks for watching! This is one piece of terrain that I wasn’t sure how much use it would get, but I tend to put it on every table I play on.
That looks awesome!
Best idea I’ve seen. Thanks. What type of paint did you use for river? I don’t recognize those tubes. Also, how do you manage the little white strands of the cloth?
I really like this. Perhaps the same technique can be used to make roads, too.
Howdy RBB, just gotta day that your channel is none of the best that I've seen. Your techniques with the caulk and canvas are genius. That aside, I was just curious as to what you use to seal your flexible terrain? Do you think PVA glue or a spray adhesive would effect the flexibility?
Again, amazing work my friend!
+Ronald Shields Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed the videos! I seal most of my canvas based terrain with either Pva or cheap matte varnish spray, find either does a great job protecting the paint.
Red Beard Baron cool man thanks!
Could you use mod podge to make ripple effects ontop of the water? Awesome video btw, thanks!
Thanks! I use mod podge if I'm using resin for the water, but if you use the clear caulk then its easier just to form them from the caulk.
Could you dry brush parts of the top of the clear caulk with white to make them stand out a bit more?
You could definitely do that if you are wanting to make more turbulent rapids and such. Just make sure you give the caulk a few days, but since it is arcylic based it should take paint nicely!
Red Beard Baron Sorry, I'm just a little confused and was hoping you could clarify something for me. If I'm not mistaken, you use latex caulk for making your dirt roads, etc. The clear caulk is also latex/acrylic based, not silicone? Thanks again for your videos. Makes washing the dishes way more bearable! I've rewatched your videos over and over while washing just because I enjoy the way they're made and the quality of them.
Thanks! I went back and looked at my tube and you are correct it is silicone. So I tried taking some white at dry brushing over the waves and the silicone took the paint, but would be wiped off pretty easily. However, I took some gloss varnish and lightly coated the dry brushed sections and that seemed to seal it in place. Your other option could be to put a layer of modge podge over the caulk since it takes paint a little better than the silicone.
Would it be possible do make a swamp/ocean battle mat with this technique? Was planning on printing a top view crocodile, coat it with white glue then stick it down on the paint, let it dry then put the clear caulk ontop, making it look like the croc is swimming in the water :)
loved this tutorial. this would look great for the Fords of Isen in Lord of the Rings SBG. :) I'll be checking out your other videos for sure.
Glad you liked it!
Das ist wirklich der Hammer!
Geile Idee!
Thanks for watching!
I'm having problems with the canvas base fraying at the edges. Do you not see this as an issue on the finished product?
I have had that happen with canvas before, here are my 2 solutions.
1. Cover the back and edges with duct tape...keeps from fraying and warping
2. Cover edges and back edge of canvas with caulk to keep the fraying/warping in check.
Sounds like that could be expensive in duct tape! Will give the caulking a go when the weather warms up and I can open my windows wide to air the fumes.
I have tried covering a whole piece of canvas or other fabric with a thin layer of caulk (about one tube per 3x4ft sheet) in order to make a non warping, flexible, non fraying surface. From there, you can draw out your shapes for river or road segments and then cut them out when everything is painted and caulked. I have found success with this. When you cut the segments out, just go over the edges with what ever color of paint to hide the white edges. Might be worth trying?
Great ideas and video, but where do you get your canvas at? I've looked for canvas at Wal-mart, Hobby Lobby, and Michael's.
Yea you won’t find it at hobby stores, I get mine at Home Depot in the painting department.
Of course! Thanks Red Beard Baron!!!
Excellent idea, I'm working on some Mesopotamian troops this will work really well for the 2 rivers. thanks for sharing
+war gaming with Garry Glad I could be of service!
I have now watched this video three times. I really like what you are doing with this and want to try it. My issue is that I have a bunch of JR Miniatures Muddy River flexible rivers. If I make some, I would like to match those to expand what I have rather than buying more of the JR product (which I like). Would you be able to recommend some paint colors to try to match the muddy rivers that JR produce rather than the blue rivers you made?
Based on what I've seen on their website I would use burnt umber as the darker browns wet blended with yellow ochre to create the lighter sections near the shore. For the green sections in the middle of the river I might use an olive greed.
Thanks.. Ill give it a try.
would liquid latex work instead of the calk?
I think that would work just as well, I believe it is the latex in the caulk that provides the flexible yet sturdy texture.
Thanks for a great tutorial. I've tried polystyrene carving for rivers too but they take forever.
Thanks for watching! Agreed, nothing is more tedious than carving foam even if you have a hot wire cutter.
looks realy good! How durable is it?
It is actually really durable with the different types of caulk...pretty much indestructible
@@RedBeardBaron thanks, I'm thinking about transport-friendly terrain pieces for my 15mm games :-)
Great concept. It looks a lot easier and cheaper than the water-effect resin. My only concern is the tendency of caulked cloth to curl at the edges rather than laying flat. A friend of mine made dirt roads with brown caulking on felt but they curl up a bit, creating an unrealistic shadow. I see a similar tendency with the canvas. If one were willing to sacrifice the flexibility a hard board base rather than canvas might be the answer. Larger bushes on the shore that overhang the edge of the canvas might disguise the curl. What do you think about laying the caulking down on a full width sheet of wax paper for the build process and then, after all is done, removing the wax paper? Do you think that the caulking would still curl?
The canvas does have a tendency to curl, I used a duct tape backing to help counteract the effect, which worked ok. Someone on TMP has said that they coat both sides of the canvas with the caulk and that gives enough weight to the caulk to prevent curling. Thanks for watching!
I wonder if vinyl floor tiles would work ?> Or try 3mm PVC Foam board ? I havnt yet but its on my bucket list
Both good suggestions, Rusty. Alas, neither is flexible enough to flow down hill. On the other hand, few tables would require more than one or two sections to flow down hill. Most of my games with rivers involve valley floors.
As Michael said vinyl tile tends to stiffen quite a bit once either pva or caulk is placed on it. That being said vinyl is a hidden gem of basing materials...I use it for figures, tree bases, and for building bases. Thanks for watching!
Really good work !
+Jumbo Appreciate it!
This DAP caulking. I checked hardware store and there's a lot of different ones. There's acrylic, silicone, latex, etc.
Which one do you use?
Addramyr Palinor He said latex.
+Addramyr Palinor acrylic or latex is preferable just because they are easier to paint.
GREAT O MY YOU GOT SOME THING HERE BUDDY...
Thanks! Still use these rivers all the time several years later.
Where do you get the sheets covered in the little bushes?
Bran Harin I either buy them for cheap from eBay or buy the army painter tufts from miniature market. You can make your own if you have access to a static grass applicator.
I don't even know what a static grass applicator is, but I think I'll get some of those from that miniature market. Do you have a link to where you specifically get them by chance?
Here is their assortment, I'm a big fan of their mountain tufts.
www.miniaturemarket.com/searchresults?q=army+painter+tufts
Hey sweetie.. Just asking if the clear cawk u used is OK on xps foam..?
Should work fine, you might want to coat it with watered down pva just to be safe.
Thanks again for the armatures, have another video planned to show them off.
I noted the edges are curled up. Has this worsened with age?
About the same. You can coat the backside with caulk along the edges or even back the canvas with duct tape to limit the warping, but that is one of the limitations to flexible terrain.
@@RedBeardBaron Would it be worth revisiting this topic a year from now (or at some later date)? I only ask because I truly favor "flexible" terrain pieces as they afford easier transportation/stowage. However, we know having nice looking terrain adds to our gaming experience so curling edges concerns me regarding flexible river portions.
I wonder if you used heavy items along the edges while drying if this would help with the buckling issue? Or possibly using double sided tape on each edge underneath to hold it down to the table top or working surface.
what is the name of the clear gel called??
It is just clear acrylic caulk that is used for sealing shower doors and such. Can be found for a few dollars at any home improvement store.
fantastic thank you
CouldI use old pair of jeans for the canvas?
+Addramyr Palinor I don't see why that wouldn't work, really any cloth-like material would work
I just cut up a pair of my old chinos. A bit worried though by the fraying edges. Is this likely to be a problem?
@@sirrathersplendid4825
Yes the jean fabric may give you issues with fraying on the edges. The way around that would be to do a double row of straight stitching and/or a zig-zag stitch to help prevent the fabric from coming apart. The painters cloth has been made not to come apart. Also adding duct tape to the back of your project gives stability and would help with lots of use.
How long did the surface of the clear remain tacky?
+Bartlett Hoxworth That clear caulk takes forever, around two days. The woodland scenics water drys quicker but is much more expensive
What type of flowers do you use? thanks! great vid, by the way, dropped a sub!
I made these with a static grass applicator and colored sand from a hobby store. I used to buy them on ebay, but they are of course more expensive than making them yourself.
great tutorial! Tnx!
Thanks for watching!
Shower caulk?
Clear acrylic caulk that is often used for sealing showers.
Genius!
Crafting goes better with Guinness.
+Ron H Agreed, everything goes better with a Guinness or a single malt.
flock that sticks to the surface can just be duck weed
Great thing about terrain building is that our happy accidents often look natural.
just discovered your channel. consider me subbed ;-). good stuff mate!
Thanks for taking the time to watch my videos!
Red Beard Baron you take the time to make these cool crafts. as a fellow crafter the least i can do is watch them ;-)
Genius
Those aren’t craft paint. They are artist grade acrylics. Love what you did though.
If I had a dollar for every time I heard someone intentionally mispronounce “caulk” as “cock”...
Anyways, thanks for the tutorial, this is what I was looking for!
Fair at best. You should true the banks with a heavy book before you apply latex water. The edges the edges.
looks pretty good, it´s waaay more practical for actual table gaming. Im gonna try this thanks for sharing . I was wondering if someone have tried to make a river with one of those tranparent plastic sheets that some computers have in the screen, it has a weird depth effect , wonder if there is a way to combine it with this.
PS. Excuse my poor English