My goodness, not a ringing endorsement for this kit. Puts new meaning to - some assembly required. Thanks for the video. It makes it easier for the next guy. Moss should link it in their instructions.
Well, everything was there and it did go together and I hope will work as intended, but no, not the best instructions (for me, anyway). Thanks for watching!
Hi Chris, It would appear that for some reason your engine has notch cut into the engine front plate, (presumably when the welded bracket was installed?) On my 4A engine the threaded stub on the pedestal passes through a correctly sized hole in both the front plate and the bracket. Without the front plate acting as a spacer, your alternator will be set rearwards equivalent to the thickness of the front plate... can't tell if this would be sufficient to throw your three pullies out of line. If I remember correctly, the hole in my plate had opened out and the plate thinned over the years... I assume because the pedestal had worked loose with consequent rubbing and wear. I think I added some weld to bring the front plate back to original thickness and closed the hole to the correct size. I suppose you could fit a thick washer to make up for the missing metal... personally I would MIG this in place, while ensuring correct alignment with the bracket, but not welding the two together. When I was rebuilding my engine, an experienced TR owner advised me to lock-wire the three hex screws that hold the dynamo bracket to the block. They said that if the screws came out, then there would be a loss of engine oil. I did not evaluate or question the validity of this, as they kindly gave me pre-drilled hex-headed screws, so no problem. In addition I used a sealing type of Loctite to ensure there was no path for oil seepage past the threads. That seems a sensible precaution, even if fitting lock wire is a something that is not really necessary for a typical road-use car.
Hey Chris! So I am going to do a similar conversion on Arya, but I think I might do it without a kit. Considering the issues you had with this kit do you feel that you could have done it better, and cheaper by making your own fit kit?
I don't know. In the end, the kit did have everything I needed. There were some differences in the Moss and the Rimmer's kit. The Rimmer's kit was more complete while the Moss one assumed you had some existing hardware. I probably would go the kit route again if I was using this alternator because I know they would work together. If not, I'd probably build my own.
One step closer, Chris! 👍 It was sone time ago, but I am trying to recall how I fitted the alternator in my TR4... AFAIK, no one was making conversion kits at the time. I think I used a single, really long bolt at the bottom, passing through the tab on the alternator, a spacer, the front engine plate, the front arm of the mounting bracket, another sleeve or spacer, the rear tab on the alternator, and the rear arm of the mounting bracket. That way there is only that one long bolt with a nylock nut at the rear to tighten. But, this involved modifications, so isn't "reversible", if that's a concern. I either modified the original spacer at the front into an unthreaded sleeve, or made a sleeve out of something. I also made a long sleeve to fit inside the mounting bracket. I might have used a washer or two at the front to get the belt to align. At the top, I used the original adjusting bracket. I had to heat it up and bend it a bit to get it to align properly with the tab on the alternator. The only problem I can remember encountering was something on the particular alternator I was using (a GM, single wire, dont recall the model)... I think I had to trim a little off the lower, rear mounting tab to narrow the mounting surfaces a little. Thinking about it now, I suppose I could have instead just made a slightly wider bracket. Live and learn! It doesnt shown it all, but there is an old photo in the gallery here: triumphowners.com/to-car/tr4-14/
Great description of the kit install and overcoming the issues. Does the kit identify the alternator so that you can purchase a replacement in the future if necessary, or would you have to go back to the source of the kit for a replacement?
Hi, Dale. The alternator is the one for the TR7 (without AC, I believe). I picked up my parts through Rimmer's but I believe they all sell the same stuff (and it's obviously a Moss kit). The Moss instructions do call out a Moss part number, 130-101, but if you look that up, nothing comes up (at Moss). If you cross-reference what Rimmer's sells at their TR4 conversion alternator, it's the TR7 one.
Hey, Eric. The generators are old DC technology and are not as efficient as the alternator, which is rectified AC. The alternators have a more robust design and they are also able to put out more power, and they put it out on-demand, vice constantly like a generator does (which is why you have a fully separate voltage regulator). The generator also needs to spin fast to put out enough oomph to charge the battery. In my Spitfire, until I hit about 1500 rpm, it's not charging the battery. I'm swapping over for the reliability and ease of repair.
lol, yup. A bit of a word salad that needs to get read more than once, that's for sure. I didn't even look at the electrical instructions yet. Thanks, Mike!
Wow that makes little to no sense in my mind . One long bolt and different sized shims or washers to adjust your alignment outside and inside the bracket and that will do it. They made it difficult for sure.
I agree. Looking again, however, the Moss kit and the Rimmer kits are a bit different. The Moss kit includes electrical stuff and assumes you have some original hardware. The Rimmer's kit does not. But, they seem close enough that the Moss kit instructions are adequate to use.
Hi, Bill. 51516. I picked them up at Amazon (shorturl.at/y65i2) for less than half of what Moss charges (I zoomed in on their pic to get the #). Right now, they're about $7.50, so maybe time to stock up!
My goodness, not a ringing endorsement for this kit. Puts new meaning to - some assembly required. Thanks for the video. It makes it easier for the next guy. Moss should link it in their instructions.
Well, everything was there and it did go together and I hope will work as intended, but no, not the best instructions (for me, anyway). Thanks for watching!
Hi Chris, It would appear that for some reason your engine has notch cut into the engine front plate, (presumably when the welded bracket was installed?) On my 4A engine the threaded stub on the pedestal passes through a correctly sized hole in both the front plate and the bracket. Without the front plate acting as a spacer, your alternator will be set rearwards equivalent to the thickness of the front plate... can't tell if this would be sufficient to throw your three pullies out of line.
If I remember correctly, the hole in my plate had opened out and the plate thinned over the years... I assume because the pedestal had worked loose with consequent rubbing and wear. I think I added some weld to bring the front plate back to original thickness and closed the hole to the correct size. I suppose you could fit a thick washer to make up for the missing metal... personally I would MIG this in place, while ensuring correct alignment with the bracket, but not welding the two together.
When I was rebuilding my engine, an experienced TR owner advised me to lock-wire the three hex screws that hold the dynamo bracket to the block. They said that if the screws came out, then there would be a loss of engine oil. I did not evaluate or question the validity of this, as they kindly gave me pre-drilled hex-headed screws, so no problem. In addition I used a sealing type of Loctite to ensure there was no path for oil seepage past the threads. That seems a sensible precaution, even if fitting lock wire is a something that is not really necessary for a typical road-use car.
Hey Chris!
So I am going to do a similar conversion on Arya, but I think I might do it without a kit. Considering the issues you had with this kit do you feel that you could have done it better, and cheaper by making your own fit kit?
I don't know. In the end, the kit did have everything I needed. There were some differences in the Moss and the Rimmer's kit. The Rimmer's kit was more complete while the Moss one assumed you had some existing hardware. I probably would go the kit route again if I was using this alternator because I know they would work together. If not, I'd probably build my own.
One step closer, Chris! 👍
It was sone time ago, but I am trying to recall how I fitted the alternator in my TR4... AFAIK, no one was making conversion kits at the time.
I think I used a single, really long bolt at the bottom, passing through the tab on the alternator, a spacer, the front engine plate, the front arm of the mounting bracket, another sleeve or spacer, the rear tab on the alternator, and the rear arm of the mounting bracket. That way there is only that one long bolt with a nylock nut at the rear to tighten. But, this involved modifications, so isn't "reversible", if that's a concern. I either modified the original spacer at the front into an unthreaded sleeve, or made a sleeve out of something. I also made a long sleeve to fit inside the mounting bracket. I might have used a washer or two at the front to get the belt to align.
At the top, I used the original adjusting bracket. I had to heat it up and bend it a bit to get it to align properly with the tab on the alternator.
The only problem I can remember encountering was something on the particular alternator I was using (a GM, single wire, dont recall the model)... I think I had to trim a little off the lower, rear mounting tab to narrow the mounting surfaces a little. Thinking about it now, I suppose I could have instead just made a slightly wider bracket. Live and learn!
It doesnt shown it all, but there is an old photo in the gallery here: triumphowners.com/to-car/tr4-14/
Thanks, Alan. That's a cool picture! I think the kit will end up working out fine. Just have to tweak it a bit, of course, but that's not a surprise.
Great description of the kit install and overcoming the issues. Does the kit identify the alternator so that you can purchase a replacement in the future if necessary, or would you have to go back to the source of the kit for a replacement?
Hi, Dale. The alternator is the one for the TR7 (without AC, I believe). I picked up my parts through Rimmer's but I believe they all sell the same stuff (and it's obviously a Moss kit). The Moss instructions do call out a Moss part number, 130-101, but if you look that up, nothing comes up (at Moss). If you cross-reference what Rimmer's sells at their TR4 conversion alternator, it's the TR7 one.
What would be the disadvantage of just running a generator, do they not charge as well? I've never had a car old enough to have a generator.
Hey, Eric. The generators are old DC technology and are not as efficient as the alternator, which is rectified AC. The alternators have a more robust design and they are also able to put out more power, and they put it out on-demand, vice constantly like a generator does (which is why you have a fully separate voltage regulator). The generator also needs to spin fast to put out enough oomph to charge the battery. In my Spitfire, until I hit about 1500 rpm, it's not charging the battery. I'm swapping over for the reliability and ease of repair.
Thanks Chris... one step at a time
Thanks, Mike. Onward and upward!
If only the instructions were in English..."The lower front of the rear"? What?
lol, yup. A bit of a word salad that needs to get read more than once, that's for sure. I didn't even look at the electrical instructions yet. Thanks, Mike!
Wow that makes little to no sense in my mind . One long bolt and different sized shims or washers to adjust your alignment outside and inside the bracket and that will do it. They made it difficult for sure.
I agree. Looking again, however, the Moss kit and the Rimmer kits are a bit different. The Moss kit includes electrical stuff and assumes you have some original hardware. The Rimmer's kit does not. But, they seem close enough that the Moss kit instructions are adequate to use.
Hi Chris, what is the # on that WIX oil filter?, Thanks
Hi, Bill. 51516. I picked them up at Amazon (shorturl.at/y65i2) for less than half of what Moss charges (I zoomed in on their pic to get the #). Right now, they're about $7.50, so maybe time to stock up!
@@roundtailrestoration Thanks , I will