Did Tadej Pogacar UNDERESTIMATE Jonas Vingegaard? | LRCP Clips
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- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2024
- In this clip Patrick Broe and Benji Naesen discuss Tadej Pogacar's monster attack on the 11st tage of Tour de France 2024.
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My money was on Pogacar until yesterday. This rivalry is such a treat to see after years of boring sky trains.
Watching this Tour and interviews I concluded a number of stages ago that Pogacar deeply fears Vingegaard, and rightly so. That is why Pogacar - even in yellow - has looked to attack whenever he thought there was an opportunity to gain time, because if Vingegaard (who was a bit of an unknown until now) improved every day, Pogacar will have his work cut out for him. Either way, it’s game on. What an incredible edition of The Tour so far.
I don’t know what you’re on about. Jonas is literally in Pogacar’ wheel even if he’s going to grab a bidon..
@@Elchapomilou and…..?
@Elchapomilou But that's an automatic response - to just follow, for now... One could argue that no hesitation means he's strong and ready.
@@Elchapomilou last year Pogacar was in Jonas and Sepp Kuss wheel all race. That's how it works when you the favorite and have the best team. The best team pull and set the pace. And this year UAE and Pogacar is the favorite and have the best team. So it's natural that his opponents will be in his wheel. Nothing about being a wheel sucker or whatever narrative you stans try to creat to make Vingegaard look bad. Just respect both riders, and without either of them the race would be boring af.
Frankly Jonas looks in better form than he did at this time last year. Would be shocked if Pog can figure out how to hold the yellow after 21
I think Tadej realised he was having a bad day on climb after creating a gap on the descent. He then made the mature decision to time trial up that climb at whatever speed he could manage without going into the red zone.
In hindsight, I'd say that losing only one second on a stage when he realised he had hit his limit about 18km from the end is a very good result.
Agreed. Didn't Pog have a feeding problem too? Looked like he missed a chance to get food and suffered because of that.
what???? do you know what the term RED ZONE even means bro, they were both at the top of their red zone 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
@@Stubbo1950no
@@welanduzfullo8496no dude. They weren’t. You should learn about long term endurance sports. Red zone is Pogs attack. Or the final sprint. On the climb where Vingegaard caught up 40s to Pog none of them were in the Red Zone. They both went to their long term Watt limit. Here Vingegaard is faster uphill. He has a lower watt output but is also 8kg lighter making him quicker uphill in those outstretched battle.
Not even those two can keep the redzone up for more than a minute. They would build an incredible amount of lactate if they’d go red for too long and that would destroy their performance in the upcoming days. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Sure they aren’t taking that climb in Zone 1 but you don’t redzone an entire climb, that’s suicide.
After getting his sprint bonus, Pogi should have refused to work, and let them get caught. That way he could still win a finish sprint, and also be 100pct sure Jonas would not win. Really dumb tactics when he knew he was bonking hard
Tadej has so much self-belief and excitability that he can't help himself going for the 'grand win', whereas Jonas is more cunning, more tactical. I think Tadej's attack was fine.. IF you have the legs to finish it off. Which he didn't (did he eat enough?). The real question now is how does Visma use Tadej's hubris to do him over again in the big mountains - which stage and where in the stage? This is now a team and tactics battle, and beautifully poised. My call is stage 15.
My question is can Visma make it hard enough in the mountains without kuss? I don't think kelderman and jorg cut it
It looks like if the last hill was harder , vingegaard could probably drop him. Next few mountain stages are going to be great and it might come down to the last Time trial.
Pogacar and Vinegaard....both are just super cyclists with different riding styles which brings much excitement
I like Pogacar but if Vinegaard win.... I will support his efforts and enjoy every moment of the TDF
Wish them all of the best for the days to come
They have the same riding style ie riding high w/kg 🤡🤡🤡
@@welanduzfullo8496 Pogacar is a rider who attack where Vinegaard is more conservative
You don't know me and I am definitely not a clown 🤡
Yep, and we saw that Remco and Primoz are spectators in this two-man battle. They better hope Jonas wheel sucks a lot in the mountains because if he starts to pull in a group they are in they're getting dropped quicker than a queer drops the soap in the prison showers.
the watts these 2 are doing are crazy, even when pog was “cracking” he was still doing 6,91 w/kg, ving was doing 7,2 w/kg
gotta feel for remco, i think hes doing a good tour and hes riding smart, he’s probably the one out of the 3 that knows exactly what he needs to do to keep it close going into the 3rd week
Wow insane! 😮 Where do you get those numbers from by the way?
Are you two assuming Pog and Vin have the same skill set? I think this was Pog attacking when the situation suited him best; trying to put as much time on Vin as possible. Pog is expecting to loose time on the long, high altitude climbs.
Jonas silenced Remco pretty quickly lmao
Pretty big balls if you ask me 😂
Two key take away points - UAE fcked up and Tadej's biggest weakness is his impulsiveness (and yah hindsight is perfect science).
1) UAE clearly has the strongest climbing team but there is a lack of role clarity, hierarchy and unity. Even if Politts, Sivakov and Soler went to hard early on, the problem was that the remainder of Almeida, Yates and Ayuso meant effectively f-all with Yates burning the whole team but Pogi with 33kms to go.
- I fail to understand why Yates of all went as hard as he did so early and as a team they should have at least taken Pogi to the last climb/or second last climb while riding hard tempo.
- Roles should have been well established between Almeida, Ayuso and Yates and which points they were each going to work and they could have whittled the leading group down to max 8-10.
- An explosive Pogi attack could have done similar if not more damage without having to burn as many matches as ultimately ended up doing.
You didn't see this kind nonsense with Sky of old (and if Froome didn’t behave he was called back) and TJV from recent years and comes down to too may UAE riders riding for their own GC. For me it clear that Majka is the missing glue that directs the traffic in UAE and that rides without ego.
2) Pogi, as much as I love him and it is good for TV ratings, simply is too aggressive in grand tours and his impulsiveness has partly been his biggest downfall at TFD.
- He rides every stage as the alpha and as if it is a one-day classic and burns too many matches in the process.
- For me, he also has to show more leadership and get the team aligned to better work for him.
- It is not about how you feel in the moment but rather how you want to feel on stage 17/18/19.
TDF is completely different to Giro where he had no competition to be honest and where we would have put 3-4 mins into his rivals with similar antics like on stage 12. At the TDF you have to more strategic and bide your time tactically - Vingegaard tactically is way ahead of Pogi. The only logically explanation was that he really wanted to test Vingegaard who nobody knows really in what condition he is having had the big crash and to all our surprise is looking in unreal condition.
I agree with Johanne Bruyneel’s comments on JB 2 squared when he says that Pogacar bonked
He didn’t bonk. He went deep for sure, but if he bonked he wouldn’t be able to keep up
I think he did not underestimate Jonas. It was the right strategy. He made a gap of 35 seconds before Jonas caught up to him. It's just that Jonas was out of this world. Nobody can do that aside from him. Without Jonas in the tour, we can say, it's over.
no
True. Pogi needs to Pick up every second to gain a buffer for the Big mountains where He expect Jonas to be strongest. But Jonas does not know if He Can keep pushing in the High mountains. If He can He is winning. If He cant pogi wins. Simple as that.
I think Pogacar hoped that Jonas was not his old him... But he is maybe even better... What does not kill you make you stronger.
They say he's 2kg lighter than last year. He might be capable of higher w/kg in the mountains at the expense of less explosiveness and power on the flat
@@systemicchaos3921 he's definitely less powerful than last year. Beginning of this year, he was definitely faster than last year. I'd say all things equal, he's a little bit behind form from last year, and definitely behind where he would have been without the accident. But he has a few more stages to build form
UAE team members said multiple times last year that Pogi's TSS was overloaded by Visma making the race hard every day. I think they're trying the same strategy to crack Jonas in week 3 assuming that is where the time off the bike will hurt him.
Exactly, there is a lot of tour ahead.
And they are assuming wrong. Jonas loves the hard pace, he fades less than the others
Benji has lost sooo much weight! That so great for him!
UAE has a underlying problem controlling Pogi....There is no way this was a plan from their side in management. I speculate that Pogi is very hard to control and have stick to a plan. Also to ride that hard and use up all domestics and not giving anything away to the brakeaway teams is setting your self and rest of UAE to be the bad guys nobody likes in the peloton.
Jonas is Tipping the scales - and well deserved it is.
It's obvious tadej had a bad day or that feeling of fear that vingo is coming fast from behind. Noticeably from the cadence they're very different tadej can not move up to higher gears gears
no, he just paced the climb as soon as his team car told him vinge is closing in
@@welanduzfullo8496 paced and nearly lost the bonus time sprint and did lose the final sprint? No, he was weaker
It looked to me like Yates still had a lot left when Tadej made his move. It would have been better to keep Yates with him and have a team mate between the last two climbs.
Pogacar is likely starting to feel the Giro in his legs whilst Vingegaard is very fresh and improving. Bodes well for him in the last week
As a new fan of Kanye West and an old fan of Jonas Vingegaard, I was quite shocked that on Runaway West keeps chanting for the Pogmachine! Can anyone explain this please!
My conclusion from this stage is that if UAE want to win, they have to play defensive. I believe it was the right strategy to go for more time here, no one knew if Vingo could come back like that. Hindsight is 20/20.
Vibgo may get stronger but do Visma really have the team to drop UAE domestiques? I don't think so.
They will have to rely on other teams otherwise I can't see vingo dropping all of UAE solo.
If UAE pace in the mountains I will lose my mind. That's exactly how Visma wins.
100% agree. Jonas is the best in using his big balls between his ears, while UAE and pogi just brute force their way through every stage (im big time Pogi fan btw.)
UAE has the best team by far, but they are throwing away all their bullets without even firing them properly. The more time adam and joao lose to Jonas, the less likely it will be to use them in a break away to make Jonas and Visma react. That is a strategy that works early in the tour, but with big gaps in week 3, all jonas has to do is follow pogi, no matter who from UAE attacks. I also think that UAE desperately wants to win stages but will throw away the GC instead.
UAE are doing a good job at dropping their own domestiques, look at Yates only taking Pogi with him. Jonas does not need to worry about the rest of the team, only Pogi.
Is this really so complicated? If no one can keep up with Jonas on the long and steep climbs, then it doesn’t matter how many teammates he or Tadej has. No? Because in those climbs the draft is a negligible factor compared with W/kg? And they’re long enough to give him minutes, not seconds? And as long as Jonas does not have to pull in lower terrain, a hard pace there will tax everyone else just as much (or more, for the UAE rider pacing). I’m not an experienced rider so there might be something I’m missing here.
I think Tadej attacked because Ayuso and Almeida broke so soon. When Ayuso and Almeida did nothing Yates and Tadej had to do what they did. Also without the Giro, I reckon Tadej would have won with a good gap.
So what use is their super team if they can’t pull?
It feels like Jonas can push himself to the brink of death. Pogacar is the stronger overall rider but Jonas can dig deeper somehow.
I have to believe that there are parts to these calculations that we simply dont know or understand. Because it certainly feels like a lot of teams would benefit from just reading goddamn youtube comments to prep their strategy. Why the hell would UAE burn their guys like that setting a pace that JV, if he had the team, would just ask his own guys to do? Like, do they think its somehow harder on JV just because its UAE guys doing the pacing? Its essentially a free ride for him, he eats that shit for breakfast. If they have the superior team, they should try to shape it into pogs favorite stage instead of JVs. Like, say, maybe putting guys up the road that pog can bridge the gap to. I think that would help him a lot more. But hey, Im a JV guy anyway. And I also just happy we’re getting to watch this absolute dynamite cycling, so by all means, UAE do your thing
JV is the one benefitting most from making the pace high up the climbs. The only way he cannot follow is the Pog quick burst which so far from the finish was paced back by Jonas. I don’t think Pog will get much value from all the climbers he has in the fight against JV. He would have been better making it a shorter one on one up the final climb IMO.
The best tactic was Jonas drafting Roglic on that descent, while Pog was using energy, that was the difference in the end.
no
They don't really spend much energy in the descents. Tadej realized he had to time trial somewhere after his attack, and just kept the highest pace he could muster without going into the red. This was a case of Tadej miscalculating and Jonas keeping his head cool. Him being lighter helps too
Remember JV was pulling TP the last 5k or so.
@@welanduzfullo8496 Yes indeed, Jonas was tailgating Primož for some time, enough to regen quickly. On the other hand Tadej rode alone.
@@Tilenmjust sounds like you’re crying about it lol. There’s no way Jonas could actually be good so it has to be because he got a little draft while trading pulls with roglic
He didn't make a mistake he ,wanted the advantage of the down hill gap
Patrick and Benji, its just really simple. UAE have horrible tactics. Matchin the DS should be fired. Laat two years Pog burned too many matches and they just repeat that bullcrap. He should only have attacked on Galibier and take time like he did. Rest of the stages he should let breakaways go, try to get Yates, Almeida and Ayuso a few times in a breakaway and lay low. Spare the domestiques as much as possible. Pogi at Visma would be the ultimate rider.
look how stupid you look now
I think it was calculated. The stage is not important, but UAE now knows the currect capabilities of Vingegaard, which is vital information. This year UAE has better domestiques and with the right plan they probably beat Visma so proper info on the opponent is invaluable.
lol what
@@5508Vanderdekken you know you need to expand that
Jonas is more juice than man at this point
Pog with top tier acting today.
bold statement, we'll see
That’s some top tier coping 😂
@@telmolicious told you
@@welanduzfullo8496 😁
@@Matt_W8 Told me something wrong.
Zuta majaca sa 1min prednosti mora da vozi mnogo mudrije a ne da rasipa energiju iz etape u etapu....
Pogacar also trashtalking with Remco, that he doesnt need to fear Rogljic. His countryman and such disrespect….
Seeing Jonas win is so satisfying honestly, especially after Tadej & Remco trashtalked about him yesterday 😂
cmon, you are such drama queens
@@markotertinek4433exactly
@@umah.🤡
🤡
Vingegaard is very strong and getting stronger. Pog needs to shift tactics to marking Vingegaard and controlling him with the stronger UAE team.
Didn’t eat enough, stupid mistake
I hate to admit but I miss Sky black bus domination in front of the race
it's just too bad we all have to pretend this race and sport is clean, it will never be and I wish they would just come out and admit it and that it's a permanent part of the race, it's too bad we can't have 2 tours, one for the clean riders (if any) and one for the supe mega doped freaks that we watch nowadays.
Has the the giro d'italia has did Tadej Pogacar in NOW tour ,coming back to bite UAE Tadej Pogacar
no, giro was just a *harder* training camp, zero competition, zero challenge and watt surges pogi had to respond to
You can all try to keep this exciting and that it is a close matchup. It isn't and it's never gonna be. Pogacar doesn't stand a chance against Vingegaard in a 3 week race. He will never win another TdF again as long as Vingegaard is on the starting list. He quite simply doesnt possess the discipline, work ethic and focus you have to have to beat Jonas.
Jonas is a monk - Tadej isn't.
I am almost surprised Jonas hasn't shaved his head to save some grams.
Pog knows his in trouble that's why he only attacks within the last k knowing there's a descent where he is better than jonas
What kind of trouble, Jonas has gained 1 second for two weeks and has not attacked once the yellow jersey ? Jonas is in trouble with his team and how the fuck he is going to drop Pogacar or even make it hard for him and his team ? Ask yourself
@@borislavdobrev4546 if he was confident of his climbing he would have attacked with a few kilometers to the descents it says a lot.
@@katekhumalo3123 what is the logic in that ?
Tadej is like ur taking the same juice I'm taking
what are you even schizoposting bro
@welanduzfullo8496 u gotta stop taking that stuff man it's called drugs