Hello Scott, these tutorials are very helpfull. I am using these for simracing on pc, project CARS ,rFactor2 and Assetto Corsa. And it gives me better understanding what to do. Maybe simracing is not completely your purpose for making these video's but they helped me a lot. Thumbs up!! Cheers, Jarno
Hi Jarno, thanks for the kind words! I'm glad we can help you with your virtual racing. If you enjoyed the tutorial please check out the whole series at driver61.com/uni and share!
Before I started watching episode one I clocked in my times with my favorite car and my favorite track and my favorite sim, a Tatuus Formula 4 at Mid-Ohio in Raceroom Racing Experience. Right before watching episode one, I drained a 20l tank and my best time was that session was 1.28.194, and my best overall was 1.27.346. After watching five videos I have just put in a 1.27.219. Same car, same setup, drained the tank from 20l. I feel a lot more time out there! Will report on times when I'm on episode 10! I mean if anyone cares, if you're like shut up Bread, no one cares, let me know, but I think it's a cool experiment! Give a guy who's familiar with vehicle dynamics a bit of learnin' and let's see what the practical results are. Science, man! Kinda. I mean even if there's one data set and a a control, that's still science, right?
Hi Scott. I'm referring to the quote "due to the suspension, the weight around the car is constantly moving". Actually, even in a car *with no suspension*, the weight moves (actually, forces, but that's another discussion) around when the car experiences acceleration (lateral, or longitudinal). If you replaced the coilover absorbers with steel rods, the weight would transfer as well. The suspension doesn't have anything to do with the fact that it transfers or not... it does change HOW it transfers though :)
Seriously though appreciate you taking time and energy to tell people this. Hopefully they know how useful it is. Lol sim racers can set up car bet I can build anything and it’s a must I help turn wrenches. Plus drive. How we not given our selfs all a good shot at something used to only the wealthy of the wealthiest got to do. I got more heart and fight in me than billions of dollars and private schools bring.
Fantastic drawings. Thanks for all your tutorials this has helped me develop my skills so much. Appreciated. My only feed back on this would be it would be awesome if you could add a live animation of the grip levels and balance changing and under braking, corning, acceleration, on or off camber and decline or incline surface
Thanks for watching! Check out the rest of the Driver's Uni series including how to trail brake (bit.ly/2PypIMK) Find out your driver level by taking our scorecard test: bit.ly/2LmYNBA
Excellent video, doubts are now gone ;) However, I still wonder about one thing. What about inclination angle? I know, that for example when we are turning right, the vertical surfaces of left tires are being straighten so the inclination angle goes to 0 degrees and inclination angle of right tires increases. But how can we determine mathematic relation between lateral G and inclination angle?
Thanks for your teaching videos. Talking about weight transfer, what about FF cars when the brake and acceleration done by the same front wheel? What about AWD? Why some FF car have lower front and higher rear settings? Rear might lose grip easily while turning right?
Thanks scott, it will be very helpful if you sometimes compare the techniques in driving car vs driving kart as some of us play in both leagues. Regardsª
Hi driver 61. Well I just got off phone with McLaren. So as I’m done with understanding weight transfer and anti roll bar fast rebound slow rebound and wedge adjustment. Wait that’s nascar. Anyways I’ll be starting in the used to be 3 McLaren. #87 in Belgium in a few weeks. See you there.
Why does the total level of grip decrease from driving at constant speed to braking? I don't know how to calculate it physically but my intuition would be that when you brake you have more grip than when driving constantly. Anyway amazing videos!
The amount of grip that a tire will generate goes up with the load placed on it but not linearly. E.g. doubling the weight of the car will give you less than double the grip. So in a simplified car model, you have the most grip available to you if the load is evenly distributed across all 4 tires.
I doubt this is an issue with race cars but in the real world second order momentum is important. The car will have angular momentum causing a rocking. This adds to why you must not come off the break too fast, as the body would swing past the middle.
Excellent..pls do a video on how to manage tyres..for example if the left rear is degrading more than other tyres wt should v do like how minimise degradation on that tyre pls do it
Shravan Pammi I don't think it's a matter of managing the wear... some tracks simply can have more high speed left handers than right ones and that's it. I replace switch tires every couple of track days
I sometimes struggle coming into the molehill bend at Curborough. It’s a curved right hander that’s off camber and coming into a sharp left. You’re braking for the left turn whilst curving to the right off camber and it’s hard to balance it here but maximise speed. I always feel like I’m giving time away. Any tips? See my videos - the molehill is the sharp left next to the crossover in the middle.
Would stiffening up the front suspension counter the loss of grip in the rear? Or would this complicate the handling and behaviour in a negative way? I imagine it interferes with the cornering behaviour or balance, but I'm too green to make a real conclusion. Great videos man, I'm thoroughly enjoying myself.
Stiffening the suspension with springs of a higher rate will reduce the load transfer and lessen the loss of rear grip, but it can also lessen the front grip by making the front less compliant. Spring rate choices are a constant battle of compromise. Another method of reducing weight transfer from rear to front is via the dampers, more rear rebound damping and more front compression damping will affect the weight / load force transfer without the negatives of using higher spring rates.
The epitome of weight transfer in racing is watching professional Superbike riders coming up to a corner with the rear wheel off the ground and still in control. Insane.
Just a question for your superbly informative video: if you have a straight grip of 4x25=100, the weight TRANSFER must result the same 100units, isn’t it? The car’s weight will not disappear, just move to an axle or side. I can imagine, that the tires can not manage more than 30 units of grip, so instead of the 35+35+15+15=100 you will end up on 30+30+20+20 before locking the front wheels. Or am I wrong?
Yeah, but with Tire Load Sensitivity there is a loss. If you increase the downward force on a tire by 30%, you only increase the grip by 20-25% for example. This is because the tire has microscopic particles that interlock with the microscopic particles of the road. The harder you push them, the more they deform, and the less extra grip you get. This is why heavier cars have worse road holding. They have extra weight, which means extra momentum, but they don't really have much extra grip. So the lighter a car is, the less weight there is to drag them out of shape.
Won't there be weight transfer even without any suspension, for example, in a kart or bicycle? I recall riding my bike when a kid when the back brake wasn't working. Applying the front brake only would cause the rear wheel to leave the ground. Even with a rear brake this tends to happen when stopping quickly. I think all the suspension does is change how quickly the transfer occurs.
Scott. I'm very thankful to have found your videos. These are great insights. On Stage 4 Acceleration, how does the grip behavior vary for a FWD or, in my case a Golf R, an AWD. And thanks again for making these possible!
Does increased weight transfer to the front tires always result in an increase in turning ability? Or would a car begin to understeer if too much weight shifts to the front?
I know you covered acceleration in constant speed and from standing still, but I wonder what is the weight transfer when you accelerate hard during HIGH SPEED? Will the weight transfer be minimal due to inertia?
'weight tranfer' only occur when car accelerate/decelerate. at constant speed, no matter how fast 0 or 100, same distribution. learn the concept of Force f=ma and don't mix it with momentum.
@@calvinlee1127 You may be right and sound like an engineer. How do you explain that a car, that can accelerate 0-100 in 2.7 seconds, but can only manage 4.5 seconds from 100-200?
Hi there, I'm sorry but how is it that if you brake in a straight line the weight moves forward and so the grip ( which is obvious) but if you turn right the weight and grip goes to the oudside instead of the inside. I mean if you turn to the right you'll compress the right side suspension more so the weight should be on the rightside?
Does one have to 'unlearn' all these when we're talking about karts? Given that they don't have suspensions and can't dive, roll, or squat as you mentioned.
Hello Will H, actually the load transfer will happen anyway, since it is a natural and unavoidable consequence of a CG above the ground. The suspension of the vehicle makes this load transfer "visible", since the car can roll, dive and squat. The point is: load transfer will happen anyway, but the suspension design allows you to control it (within a limit, of course). Hope I was able to help!
I've got a feeling this is one of those 'if you know it, you know it' type of experience. But your explanation does help me out, especially the part about it being "visible". I guess whether a vehicle has suspension or not isn't a standalone point, but one a skilled driver should be able to account for in his style. Thank you for your reply!
It's to do with load transfer sensitivity,, tyres act weird, they have a certain point in which you have maximum grip, once you exceed that point (overdriving the car) you tyres end up generating less grip. Hence why you should have smoother inputs so that you can work with the tyres load transfer sensitivity and not exceed its limit.
Thanks for the feedback, you're correct. Technically, the load transfers, however, most people in the paddock wrongly refer to it as weight transfer. Whatever we call it, it doesn't change the driving technique to make us faster on track! Have a great day, Scott.
Hi Scott, maybe as an engineer I'm a bit too nerdy on the details :) But I can imagine a correct use of terms could help understanding car dynamics even better. Anyway, your videos are a great help and a good watch!
Hmmm, sorry but that's pedantry. There is a dynamic weight transfer if the rear wheels are pressing 10 % of the cars weight and the fronts 90% there is a transfer of weight. IE all the weight is at the front.
Hang on a second. I'm studying Physics in Germany, and my first thought was "isn't weight the English word for "Gewicht"?". Gewicht is used wrong in Germany because if you talking about Gewicht in Physics you talk about the force of an object against another object (e.g. m*g), but "normal" people use it as if the were talking about mass... So they say there "Gewicht" is 100 kg or something. So if weight means Gewicht, ain't it a weight transfer? So I searched for the correct tanslation of weight, which actually is Gewicht. There is actually a wikipedia-Articel about weight, which states, the SI-unit is Newton. That means, weight actually is force. So ain't it weight transfer, if you really think about it physically? Or is there a mistake in my translation... Maybe even a mistake in my understanding of physics? I'd agree, if we talk about mass transfer... Because apard from some fluids in the car there is no mass transfering
Hello Scott, these tutorials are very helpfull. I am using these for simracing on pc, project CARS ,rFactor2 and Assetto Corsa.
And it gives me better understanding what to do. Maybe simracing is not completely your purpose for making these video's but they helped me a lot. Thumbs up!! Cheers, Jarno
Hi Jarno, thanks for the kind words! I'm glad we can help you with your virtual racing. If you enjoyed the tutorial please check out the whole series at driver61.com/uni and share!
jarwik2009 I am too! Principles still apply. I've honestly gotten 5 seconds faster in Donington Park.
Before I started watching episode one I clocked in my times with my favorite car and my favorite track and my favorite sim, a Tatuus Formula 4 at Mid-Ohio in Raceroom Racing Experience.
Right before watching episode one, I drained a 20l tank and my best time was that session was 1.28.194, and my best overall was 1.27.346.
After watching five videos I have just put in a 1.27.219. Same car, same setup, drained the tank from 20l. I feel a lot more time out there! Will report on times when I'm on episode 10!
I mean if anyone cares, if you're like shut up Bread, no one cares, let me know, but I think it's a cool experiment! Give a guy who's familiar with vehicle dynamics a bit of learnin' and let's see what the practical results are. Science, man! Kinda. I mean even if there's one data set and a a control, that's still science, right?
I just finished LPDS. Had a great experience but it is YOUR vide a Otha time tied it all together. Thank you so very much
Dude this videos are amazing, keep on track with this tutorials...
Hi Juan, thanks very much! Please share the videos if you enjoy! Cheers, Scott.
You should be able to keep on track with these tutorials haha
This is why 911's work so well under braking, turn it and corner exit. Amazing !
What a teacher!! You do an amazing work!
Hi Scott. I'm referring to the quote "due to the suspension, the weight around the car is constantly moving". Actually, even in a car *with no suspension*, the weight moves (actually, forces, but that's another discussion) around when the car experiences acceleration (lateral, or longitudinal). If you replaced the coilover absorbers with steel rods, the weight would transfer as well. The suspension doesn't have anything to do with the fact that it transfers or not... it does change HOW it transfers though :)
Weight transfer is more obvious in a car with suspension due to the suspension reacting slower, but theoretically speaking you are correct.
I'm doing a little research on why RC cars move the way they do when accelerating. This has been great help thank you
Seriously though appreciate you taking time and energy to tell people this. Hopefully they know how useful it is. Lol sim racers can set up car bet I can build anything and it’s a must I help turn wrenches. Plus drive. How we not given our selfs all a good shot at something used to only the wealthy of the wealthiest got to do. I got more heart and fight in me than billions of dollars and private schools bring.
Fantastic drawings. Thanks for all your tutorials this has helped me develop my skills so much. Appreciated. My only feed back on this would be it would be awesome if you could add a live animation of the grip levels and balance changing and under braking, corning, acceleration, on or off camber and decline or incline surface
Thanks for watching! Check out the rest of the Driver's Uni series including how to trail brake (bit.ly/2PypIMK)
Find out your driver level by taking our scorecard test: bit.ly/2LmYNBA
Driver61 What kinda racing suspension can I use with this weight transfer for drag racing?
For mag ride suspension cars, this still applies right? Does it change anything?
Great job on this series Scott, I don't think there is a more comprehensive set of videos available on t'internet.
These really are a very educational series of videos. Thank you 😀
Thanks for the explanation. This will be really helpful in my Motorsport lessons (mechanics)
Thanks for the added information Scott! By the way, I teach weight transfer in school very very similar to how you do yours as well. Cheers mate!
Hi Ivan! No problem, I hope you can put it into action on track. Great, well if you teach it, please share Driver 61! Scott
No problem Scott. For sure!
Excellent video, doubts are now gone ;) However, I still wonder about one thing. What about inclination angle? I know, that for example when we are turning right, the vertical surfaces of left tires are being straighten so the inclination angle goes to 0 degrees and inclination angle of right tires increases. But how can we determine mathematic relation between lateral G and inclination angle?
Bhut accha padhaye ho...Isi trah se padhana chahiye... 👍
great video helped me on track
Ty these videos were extremely helpful
Great tutorials! Thanks Scott.
Another excellent video! Thanks and keep it coming!
SuperSomphon thanks very much, it's a pleasure. If you can please help us out and give the video a share. Cheers, Scott.
Thank you Scott Mansell
Thanks for your teaching videos.
Talking about weight transfer, what about FF cars when the brake and acceleration done by the same front wheel? What about AWD?
Why some FF car have lower front and higher rear settings? Rear might lose grip easily while turning right?
Thanks scott, it will be very helpful if you sometimes compare the techniques in driving car vs driving kart as some of us play in both leagues. Regardsª
Hi driver 61. Well I just got off phone with McLaren. So as I’m done with understanding weight transfer and anti roll bar fast rebound slow rebound and wedge adjustment. Wait that’s nascar. Anyways I’ll be starting in the used to be 3 McLaren. #87 in Belgium in a few weeks. See you there.
Hello Scott, great video! I have some questions concerning grip while turning and its relation with torque split of differentials, can you help me?
you sir deserve more subs and likes...
Excellent as always
Mark B thanks very much. I'm glad you enjoyed! Cheers, Scott
Super explained, thanks 😊
Why does the total level of grip decrease from driving at constant speed to braking? I don't know how to calculate it physically but my intuition would be that when you brake you have more grip than when driving constantly. Anyway amazing videos!
The amount of grip that a tire will generate goes up with the load placed on it but not linearly. E.g. doubling the weight of the car will give you less than double the grip. So in a simplified car model, you have the most grip available to you if the load is evenly distributed across all 4 tires.
I doubt this is an issue with race cars but in the real world second order momentum is important. The car will have angular momentum causing a rocking. This adds to why you must not come off the break too fast, as the body would swing past the middle.
Excellent..pls do a video on how to manage tyres..for example if the left rear is degrading more than other tyres wt should v do like how minimise degradation on that tyre pls do it
Shravan Pammi I don't think it's a matter of managing the wear... some tracks simply can have more high speed left handers than right ones and that's it. I replace switch tires every couple of track days
oxygen122 adjust camber, toe, and tire pressure.
I sometimes struggle coming into the molehill bend at Curborough. It’s a curved right hander that’s off camber and coming into a sharp left. You’re braking for the left turn whilst curving to the right off camber and it’s hard to balance it here but maximise speed. I always feel like I’m giving time away. Any tips? See my videos - the molehill is the sharp left next to the crossover in the middle.
very nice tutorial bro
Would stiffening up the front suspension counter the loss of grip in the rear? Or would this complicate the handling and behaviour in a negative way? I imagine it interferes with the cornering behaviour or balance, but I'm too green to make a real conclusion. Great videos man, I'm thoroughly enjoying myself.
Stiffening the suspension with springs of a higher rate will reduce the load transfer and lessen the loss of rear grip, but it can also lessen the front grip by making the front less compliant. Spring rate choices are a constant battle of compromise. Another method of reducing weight transfer from rear to front is via the dampers, more rear rebound damping and more front compression damping will affect the weight / load force transfer without the negatives of using higher spring rates.
The epitome of weight transfer in racing is watching professional Superbike riders coming up to a corner with the rear wheel off the ground and still in control. Insane.
Super helpful thanks
Good for you very nice explain
Awesome!!! Thank YOU!
Just a question for your superbly informative video: if you have a straight grip of 4x25=100, the weight TRANSFER must result the same 100units, isn’t it? The car’s weight will not disappear, just move to an axle or side.
I can imagine, that the tires can not manage more than 30 units of grip, so instead of the 35+35+15+15=100 you will end up on 30+30+20+20 before locking the front wheels. Or am I wrong?
Yeah, but with Tire Load Sensitivity there is a loss. If you increase the downward force on a tire by 30%, you only increase the grip by 20-25% for example. This is because the tire has microscopic particles that interlock with the microscopic particles of the road. The harder you push them, the more they deform, and the less extra grip you get. This is why heavier cars have worse road holding. They have extra weight, which means extra momentum, but they don't really have much extra grip. So the lighter a car is, the less weight there is to drag them out of shape.
Won't there be weight transfer even without any suspension, for example, in a kart or bicycle? I recall riding my bike when a kid when the back brake wasn't working. Applying the front brake only would cause the rear wheel to leave the ground. Even with a rear brake this tends to happen when stopping quickly. I think all the suspension does is change how quickly the transfer occurs.
Thanks sir
Love the "fantastic drawings". LOL!
Thank you
Love u. Excellent
Scott. I'm very thankful to have found your videos. These are great insights.
On Stage 4 Acceleration, how does the grip behavior vary for a FWD or, in my case a Golf R, an AWD.
And thanks again for making these possible!
Does increased weight transfer to the front tires always result in an increase in turning ability? Or would a car begin to understeer if too much weight shifts to the front?
Not always understeer, since you can induce rotation by shifting weight to the front and turning (Scandinavian flick).
So if i add a rear gt wing, would it increase rear tires grip in braking?
Yes
What is the scientific reason why the total grip goes down?
Tire Load Sensitivity
I know you covered acceleration in constant speed and from standing still, but I wonder what is the weight transfer when you accelerate hard during HIGH SPEED? Will the weight transfer be minimal due to inertia?
no. from 1-2 in 3s will be the same as from 100-102 in 3s.
@@calvinlee1127 Please explain why you said so. You don't take high speed inertia into the factors?
'weight tranfer' only occur when car accelerate/decelerate. at constant speed, no matter how fast 0 or 100, same distribution. learn the concept of Force f=ma and don't mix it with momentum.
@@calvinlee1127 You may be right and sound like an engineer. How do you explain that a car, that can accelerate 0-100 in 2.7 seconds, but can only manage 4.5 seconds from 100-200?
@@khvidtube1617 because of increasing air resistance, also something to do with gear ratio
Hi there, I'm sorry but how is it that if you brake in a straight line the weight moves forward and so the grip ( which is obvious) but if you turn right the weight and grip goes to the oudside instead of the inside. I mean if you turn to the right you'll compress the right side suspension more so the weight should be on the rightside?
Nevermind I got it😊
Does one have to 'unlearn' all these when we're talking about karts? Given that they don't have suspensions and can't dive, roll, or squat as you mentioned.
Hello Will H, actually the load transfer will happen anyway, since it is a natural and unavoidable consequence of a CG above the ground. The suspension of the vehicle makes this load transfer "visible", since the car can roll, dive and squat.
The point is: load transfer will happen anyway, but the suspension design allows you to control it (within a limit, of course).
Hope I was able to help!
I've got a feeling this is one of those 'if you know it, you know it' type of experience. But your explanation does help me out, especially the part about it being "visible". I guess whether a vehicle has suspension or not isn't a standalone point, but one a skilled driver should be able to account for in his style. Thank you for your reply!
yeah man all this seems to be good advice. drive smoothly.
*watches colin mcrae drive onboard*
my life no longer has a meaning...
Super!!
Purely from a physics pov, why does the total grip level drop when braking, turning or accelerating? Thanks
It's to do with load transfer sensitivity,, tyres act weird, they have a certain point in which you have maximum grip, once you exceed that point (overdriving the car) you tyres end up generating less grip. Hence why you should have smoother inputs so that you can work with the tyres load transfer sensitivity and not exceed its limit.
1001speedster ah I get it. Thank you sir
Nevermind i got it😊
DiRT 4 game brought me here!
man scott is so young here
Actually, there is hardly any weight transfer in cars. The forces change, not the position of the weight.
Thanks for the feedback, you're correct. Technically, the load transfers, however, most people in the paddock wrongly refer to it as weight transfer. Whatever we call it, it doesn't change the driving technique to make us faster on track! Have a great day, Scott.
Hi Scott, maybe as an engineer I'm a bit too nerdy on the details :) But I can imagine a correct use of terms could help understanding car dynamics even better. Anyway, your videos are a great help and a good watch!
And yes, everywhere you look people are talking about weight transfer. Fighting against windmills to change that.
Hmmm, sorry but that's pedantry. There is a dynamic weight transfer if the rear wheels are pressing 10 % of the cars weight and the fronts 90% there is a transfer of weight. IE all the weight is at the front.
Hang on a second.
I'm studying Physics in Germany, and my first thought was "isn't weight the English word for "Gewicht"?". Gewicht is used wrong in Germany because if you talking about Gewicht in Physics you talk about the force of an object against another object (e.g. m*g), but "normal" people use it as if the were talking about mass... So they say there "Gewicht" is 100 kg or something.
So if weight means Gewicht, ain't it a weight transfer?
So I searched for the correct tanslation of weight, which actually is Gewicht.
There is actually a wikipedia-Articel about weight, which states, the SI-unit is Newton. That means, weight actually is force. So ain't it weight transfer, if you really think about it physically?
Or is there a mistake in my translation... Maybe even a mistake in my understanding of physics?
I'd agree, if we talk about mass transfer... Because apard from some fluids in the car there is no mass transfering
Your tutorial are pretty good, but the Information you provide could be packed into videos at least 2 times shorter.
You look like josh nichols
My damn physic teacher said we need more braking force at the back
Obviously you tried good ....but you must have to define the mechanism behind it. You just only saying common stuffs....
Fantastic work, thank you