Do you know of any effects pedals with high-quality built in buffers that we missed in this video? Tell us in the comments! Running List of Pedals with GREAT Buffers: bit.ly/2UL5WCU
Great to see the Spark on there. Will a Behringer 1 in 2 out such as the CO600 (Boss chorus ensemble clone) or the DD600 delay or RV600 reverb have a decent buffer? Trying play/demo/film upstairs. Buffered pedals to push to ABY to amps mic'd downstairs and back up from mixer headphone out buffered pedal pushing back upstairs to interface and monitors. Thanks
I can add something to this - the Boss GE-7 EQ pedal. Both Xacttone and Analogman offer a mod where they make the pedal true bypass and also do something to cut down on the noise. After their mods, the pedal becomes much more usable.
@@VibhasPatil Indeed, replacing the NJM022 op amps in the GE-7 greatly improves the noise floor issue. I wish Boss would make it stock, even though replacements OPs have a much higher current draw.
Hi Mason, Just wanted to follow up again to say thank you for the great counsel. I just added the inexpensive TC buffer at the end of my signal chain and WOW. What a difference. The improvement is drastic. Super grateful!
Thanks Mason, this is exactly where my head has been as i'm planning a pedal board and trying to save space by finding units that fit a dual purpose thus saving real estate on the pedal board~
4:08 I expected to see some "Subscribe to our mailing list and we'll send you pedal list via email" nonsense, but there's an actual list in the link. You're awesome.
I have a question: at the end of my signal path I have a Strymon Big Sky then a Ditto X4 Looper. Do I need a buffer after the looper or is the one inside the Big Sky enough? Sorry if it's a stupid question I'm new to all of this
Another highly informative video. Your other pedal order video, with the full visual chart, is another absolute reference video to learn and understand the importance of pedal order and necessary buffer input and out specs and placement! This video drives home the largely misunderstood buffer purpose/importance/placement even more. Thank you, Mason!
Looking to clarify one Of your last points about having a buffer in the middle of your chain being ineffective. I’ve got a polytune at the start and hof2 at the end but also a spark boost and boss dd7 in the chain. Does having another buffer in the middle of a chain cause a problem or did you just mean they won’t be effective if your only buffer is in the middle of your chain?
Ideally as much true bypass in between your high quality input and output buffers, but realistically any pedal on, true bypass or not, is a buffer, so I wouldn't sweat it. Just make sure you got your tuner in "buffer" mode as the first pedal, and your Reverb as your last pedal in buffer mode and you're good. The Spark is only "buffering" if it's turned on.
Strymon does everything correctly. Just a Top-notch company with Fantastic: follow-up: client service too. I love those guys & gals over there. They have "Earned my Business" oNe LovE from NYC
I'm 67 and still gigging 4-5 nights a week. Up until the last couple of years, I hadn't really given this subject much thought. Maybe because my pedals are Boss, and I haven't really noticed a problem with "tone suck". But now that I want to add a Uni-vibe type pedal in front of my pedal chain and I can't find a buffered one, I'm trying to figure this out. This video was extremely helpful to my understanding of this subject. Thank you! :-)
Great explanation and straight to the point as always, thanks 👌 Will low quality buffered pedals placed between the high quality input and output buffer affect the overall sound quality, does it matter what type of pedal is in-between at all? 🤔 Buffers in boss pedals are not of great quality and most of us have them somewhere in the rig 😅
Thanks for watching. No more than any other pedals for the most part being turned on. A few mediocre buffers here and there isn't too big of a deal so long as you make sure you have something good first and last in the chain with the right specs. I have Boss pedals in my rig too, just have to be judicious with them.
You must have so much work doing your videos because to record different situations and edit the videos in order to give us this final explanation... you deserve an academy award bro! You are amazing.
I was going to write this. I only have TC Corona, Flashback and Ditto in my fx loop (in that order) so I have them all in true bypass mode but I guess if i added 1-2 more pedals it would be better to turn the buffer mode on on the first and last position in the loop (?), excluding ditto since it's true bypass only. And I don't even want to mention TC Sentry gate :D (if i have my wah and overdrive in the Sentry loop and then from Sentry out to the amp, when the gate is activated, it buffers the signal at the end, before the amp, right? O.o *just to be clear, here's my signal path: guitar - tuner (true bypass) - TC Sentry (- loop of sentry: wah - overdrive) - higain amp - fx loop (- TC Corona - TC Flashback - TC Ditto).
Buffers have helped me a lot. I have a polytune 3 in the front of my chain and a buffered distortion pedal at the end of my "front of amp" section of my board. I only have 2 pedals in my FX loop so the last one is bufferd
@@VertexEffectsInc Input impedance: 1 MΩ Output impedance: 100 Ω With a send and return as well, so you can put all your pedals in its loop and it's done. It's also switchable to true bypass and it has a handy DC out.
Thank you for this video. I was having volume drops with some my modulation pedals and was looking into getting a buffer. But a already had a Polytune and a Pitchfork on my board, both have buffers. So a little rearranging of my board and problem solved. For those interested my Polytune is at the end and ehx pitchfork at the beginning. So it's pitchfork, ehx flanger hoax (was having volume drops), always on overdrive (jhs twin twelve), big muff, small clone, small stone, Rafferty timepiece (delay, trem, reverb) and Polytune.
Wow, some manufacturers make this hard to find haha however I did notice that the two stroke pedal from orange amps does mention a buffered bypass, but I am surprised to see that not many manufacturers mention the specs you mentioned in the video. (other than giving them a call or an email I assume) - very interesting. and great work, as always.
I'm in the midst of reconfiguring my board; and have learned a ton from your videos. Two buffers for which I'd love you to test: Peterson Strobostomp HD, which will be my input buffer, right after fuzz; my output buffer will be the Temple Audio 4 X MOD PRO, I'll be using three of its four buffers to connect to my amp and my effects loop. Fourth buffer on that will be switched off, as I'm using that connector for a footswitch.
The timing on this is perfect. I've had my Big Sky in Bypass-mode. ( 1 week ago, I activated the internal buffer ) = My Guitar Tone is significantly improved. Great stuff here.
@@VertexEffectsInc When you say "buffered or True bypass (switchable)", where is that found on the pedal and I assume if your going to use them as buffers ,these would have to be switched inside? I have a TC poly 3 bonafide as the input and a hall of fame for the output- just don't know where to find it.... Thanks-great stuff.
you are a BEAST with these amazing informative uploads,, everything that comes out of your mouth is gold and i highly appreciate that you chose youtube to share your wisdom ❤️🙏
This was great. My Polytune has a buffer, although I need to move it, and I have a TC Spark Mini just sitting in a box, so that's going at the end of my chain as the output buffer. Your list saved me from buying an extra pedal, and gets me using one I already have.
A lot of people are using modelers and I noticed things like the HX Stomp are buffered. How should we treat devices like Helix, Kempers, and AxeFX with regards to a buffer? Should we have an output buffer before these devices if we are using them for amp sims or should we treat them as output buffers? I'm building a modeling board for live use to use with a FRFR speaker and want to know if I need to get an output buffer. Thank you for the really great tutorials and tips!
Thanks for the tips in this video. I recently got into pedals and unless someone already suggested it, l’d like to add the TC Electronic Bonafide Buffer.
It would have been really useful if you played a comparison of the guitar into amp using the 30 foot coil without buffer, so we could compare what (supposed) tone suck would sound like in comparison without a buffer. Thanks for another nice video.
Question: Shouldn't the control (guitar to amp) have the same cabling as the tests? You ran a short cable then added long cables and buffers. Why not run long cables to the amp ? There doesn't seem to be anything to compare the "bad" signal to... Thoughts?
I would love to see an episode with pedals with level issues ie. Level drop when turned on and how to fix it. I have an old Peavey distortion pedal, has a cool distortion, however when it's engaged the volume drop is horrible even with the level cranked .
@@VertexEffectsInc it's an old old Peavey Hotfoot , the red one with the really ugly rubber button switch. I've seen a lot of complaints about it, but it has an old vintage warm fuzz sound. I've tried it on 3 of my amps, definitely works better with the tube amps. It has potential, but not with the level issue. Really appreciate getting back so quickly, cheers!
Thanks for this Doc, made my life a lot easier planning out my fx loop and ensuring I had something buffing at the points I needed. Maybe I'll send it your way for a grading, but I'm sure I use way too much of the same brands lol. Cheers!
Strymon Buffers, real good. I have had problems with certain reverb/delay pedals just not buffering well at the end of my chain. Hardwire Supernatural or the Strymon Volante just get it done perfectly for me with little or no signal loss with over 20 feet of cable. Right after fuzz and wah near the input, I just leave my Digitech Freqout on momentary mode and it's buffered quite well into the ES-5. After ES-5 I have a volume pedal into an EQ2 with buffers on and finishes into delay and reverb.
Hey Mason thanks for the awesome videos. They’ve been really helpful especially for someone like me I live in a small town so this type of hobby is not popular lol. You’re advice as well That Pedal Show has helped me to get my pedalboard to be awesome and quite. So I want thanks for all that you guys do keep up the great work.
So I have a pedal with a high-q buffer at the front of my chain, and another pedal with a high-q buffer at the end of my chain, then I don't need to use actual buffer pedals bcos my high-q pedals are already doing the same job?.. Also, does this apply to audio interfaces when going into a DAW via my pedal board using the Strymon Iridium?.. I imagine that it would, but not really sure.. 🤔
Hey Mason, First time caller; long time listener. I have really enjoyed the videos and tutorials on buffers and videos. They are very informative and you a fantastic presenter! Kudos, man. It’s awesome to see you collaborating with some of the bigger retailers and companies. You’re really developed an A1 reputation and you seem to be very busy, I can’t believe your still reply to every message! My deep dive goes into bass buffers and pedal board patch bays. I have jumped into the google machine and FB Guitar Pedal Building groups, before I come here to find some answers, but I’m not finding what I think I need. For bass, I know you’ve said varied impedance, generally 4-10 ohm for a bass input buffer, where are we looking for this value? Is there a preferred % tolerance. Can we make our own input/output buffer/junction box in one for bass on veroboard? Can we use and what do we need to be changing on a veroboard Cornish buffer build to meet that 4ohms. How do we find these input/output impediences on a build. Am I asking too many questions, trade secrets or, could this be a cool video. I can appreciate that I’m asking some questions here with a very base-level understanding of pedal-building, not understanding the engineering behind the build. Thanks in advance and I hope you have a resource or two, or even better yet, get to make a vid in this. Cheers! Brendan
Thanks for watching! The Bass input Z (Z is short or impedance), is to be matched with your amp's input impedance. If you amp is 1M, your input buffer loading should be 1M. If you bass if 5M, your input buffer should be set to 5M input Z. The closer you get to the input impedance of your amp, the more you bass is going to feel and react as it would if you were plugged directly into the amp with your bass. The lower the number (relative to you amp's input impedance), the more loading there will be and more rolled off or dark it may sound. The higher your input impedance (relative to the amp's input Z) the more unloaded it will sound (brighter).
Peterson Stobo Stomp tuner HD lists the input buffer at 5m ohm and the output at 100ohm. Am I reading that correctly? What does the 5m input change in regards to tone? This is by far my favorite tuner and my rig sounds great with it. Just want to make sure the specs are legit. Thanks for all the info! I learn so much from your videos.
First of all really appreciate the help. This knowledge made a HUGE difference for me in terms of tone when using pedals. One question I would love to hear input on, how do buffers affect things in an effects loop? I’ve put a few pedals with questionable buffers in my loop on my orange rockerverb and it seems like it suffers WAY less with them in the loop versus in front. Thanks so much again for all the help with the nonstop quest for tone.
Thanks for finally pointing out what specs a pedal with build in buffer should have. I'm using a NUX Sculpture Compressor and wasnt sure if the buffer is any good or if I should get an additional buffer. It has an input impedance of 1 M ohm and an output one of 20 ohm, so at least from those numbers the quality should be ok for an affordable pedal 😁
I’m late to the party. Why do I feel like on the buffered samples there’s some higher frequencies kinda ringing that I don’t hear on the reference sample? It’s very subtle though, but they seem to be there (at least to my ears). Is this even possible or is it just my brain tricking me?
ya, it's me again. i have been using my EHX Mel9 as the "powered splitter" for my ambient rig. the mel9 is 1Mohm in and 500ohm on both outputs. not as beefy as a dedicated buffer, but still a decent amount of beef. But the "dry" output is pure clean buffered version of the input and i can turn down the effects and use that output clean too. i use the Mel9 as my first pedal. the malekko 616 is never the first pedal.
Is the Mel9 on all the time? The output impedance is only working to assist when the pedal is "ON" and last in the chain as an output buffer. I believe this pedal is true bypass.
@@VertexEffectsInc Ya, the mel9 has to be powered to pass signal, so the outputs are buffered whether the effect is on or off. actually the dry out is just a separate straight-thru buffer. So what i can do is set the effect level to zero, then only the dry signal is going out the wet output = powered splitter with no digital A/D. I have 3 ehx digital pedals (mel9, ocean12, grand canyon) and they all have to be powered or they pass no signal.(kind of irritating actually) no true passive bypass any more. i think the rules are all changing with these digital pedals.
Many thanks. Question. What will happend to the signal if I put two buffers at the end of the chain…Mercury 7 (or Empress Reverb) and tc polytune (as tuner/buffer/kill switch). I tested both variants and it sounds always better with TC bufffer on
I would put the Polytune First so you get the input buffer and the Mercury 7 last so you get the output buffer. You're not getting any the proper loading of your pickups on the input with out the 1M input loading. Putting two series buffers isn't doing much at the end. The last pedal is still going to determine the line driving ability, the buffer before it is only buffer the patch cable connecting the two last pedals which isn't going to resolve much tone wise.
can someone help? im looking at the TC Spark Mini to replace my Xotic Super Clean (1k output imp). but the TC Spark Mini is saying it's true bypass. so is it just about the impedance values or does it also have to be a buffered bypass with those values? thanks anyone!
With a lot of people running pedals such as the Strymon Iridium at the end of the chain could there be included "amp in a box pedals" added to the buffer list. Strymon Volonte too? Also interested where a di box comes into play after something like the Iridium through a PA. More or less maybe an episode or input for those that run amp-less into a PA or straight into an interface for record situations? As always thank you for all your guidance Doc!
Strymon Volante and most of their devices are all 100 ohm output impedance so they would also work here as output buffers presuming their 1) in buffer mode, or 2) always on.
I’ve recently changed my rig to have the polytune 3 with the Bonafide Buffer (after my fuzz face) and your new Vertex Boost at the end of the chain. Definitely makes a difference. My amp has a tube buffered effects loop, but I tried adding another stand alone buffer to drive the line back to the return, but it made no appreciable difference. I’m using a Carl Martin Headroom reverb last in the effects loop, it’s always on and seems to drive the line fine. Not sure what the impedance is when engaged.
How about the Joyo JF-317 Space Verb. 1M input, 100 ohm output, and 35ma running current. Some pedals I looked at had good input and output specs but took a lot of power (as much as 240ma), making it a pain to use some pedal board power supplies like the voodoo labs pedal power without having to double up with 2 outputs for extra current supply.
Great video, thank you. I recently got a Mesa High Wire to solve both the input and output buffer. It actually sounds quite musical for a utility pedal, which is interesting to me because I don’t quite know why. The boost and tuner out options are great too. However, I realized the other day that I may not need it at all. Turns out that my Polytune 3 has a 100 ohm output buffer. So if I were to place it at the very of my chain, wouldn’t this solve the output buffer issue? Aside from the annoyance (or advantage) of placing the tuner last, isn’t this an elegant solution? The polytune can’t solve both buffers, but I feel like a 1meg input buffer is easier to find across many chain starter pedals…
Do you have to leave the pedal "On" ? if I use the TC PolyTune 3 as the input buffer... do I have to leave the tuner 'on' all the time or is it still buffer if I don't have it peddle'd on?
Beautiful video! 😊 I have a question: I use the boss wl-20l wireless system. An Impedance output of 1 kohm is declared on the site. Is it correct to use a buffer immediately after the wl-20l receiver? My first pedal is a Polytune 3, then all strymon pedals in true by pass and the last the strymon iridium always active. Is the Polytune buffer needed in this case? Thanks for the answer ❤
According to Josh Scott from JHS, all BOSS pedals are a buffer in themselves. With Mason mentioning Strymon as the same, it looks like you are taken care of. I also am mostly Strymon and needed was great to hear Mason echo Scott's sentiment of BOSS also is carried through all Strymon pedals as well.
I felt the Big sky jumped out at me with some coloration or "change" in tone. Great comparison tho, especially the way you blended the compares in quick succession. I feel that tone memory is SO short, seconds only sometimes so it really helps to hear them literally seamlessly.
@@VertexEffectsInc No, what I was hearing and commented on was your video demo of these pedals. At least on the speakers I was listening on, the big sky stood out to me just a bit compared to the others.
Question re: volume pedals - I'm using a TC Polytune 3 in buffered mode as my input buffer. My signal then goes into a Micro POG, followed by an OCD, TS9 and MXR M78. Ideally I'd like to place a volume pedal next, before my signal goes into modulation and delay effects. Would you recommend a low impedance pedal (e.g., Ernie Ball VP Jr 25K) versus a high impedance (250k), given my use of the input buffer? Thanks!
Typically if you have an input buffer you want to go lower impedance, 25K. Sometimes it can act differently depending on the pedal that's on before it if it has a really high output impedance, but generally 25K is ideal for something that's already buffered.
Mason, question for ya. I have a EHX Superswitcher, which has a buffer and I also have a TC Polytune 3, with a buffer. The tuner is plugged in to its own designated input on the switcher. What position would you consider those buffers in my signal chain? Thanks.
Are you sure the tuner isn’t fed by an output from the switcher? In that case it’s not adding anything, it’s not part of your signal path - presumably that tuner output is paralleled off the input buffer of your switcher
@@kevinbond3968 if it's stereo you'll need a stereo buffer if you're using both outputs. You could put your tuner first to get a good input buffer as well.
How do you feel about the UAFX pedals as an out buffer. The spec is 500 ohms. Is there a stereo buffer with 100 ohms that can sum with stereo output to mono when needed?
I came in with the same question. I’m using the 1176 pedal in the first spot on my board and loving it, but as you say 500k output. I wonder if that’s adjustable somehow?🤷♂️
I run my guitar into 2 separate amps and have been looking at Radial’s Shotgun 4-channel Amp Driver. It has buffering and would be perfect at the end of my pedal chain, but isn’t on Vertex’s list.
Question: In a situation without a pedalboard, but in a studio setting where usually 1-3 pedals at a time at most are connected and used based on specific tone that’s needed, are buffers necessary?? Again… say 20 pedals are sitting in a cabinet and only connected as needed. Not on board at same time. (This excludes situations of specific old pedals like boss ce1 where a buffer in front helps the guitar not lose a lot of highs)
I’m pretty sure these are all about live playing. It is extremely rare that the sound coming out of an amp is the same as the sound of a mixed and mastered guitar track. The studio tools have all the eq shaping power needed and buffers won’t be heard in this sense.
@@VertexEffectsInc not too long it’s in a mid sized studio with the amps right there. No more than 8-10 feet from guitar to first pedal then various short patch cables between various pedals then another 4-6 foot cable to amp. All Mogami also.
@@VertexEffectsInc I have a lot of pedals they vary. I’m trying to say I use different ones in different combos depending on what I need. So I might be doing a song that a part needs a ts9 and a compressor or a song that just needs an overdrive or one that needs just a flanged or a stereo delay etc. which ones I use and in what order changes every situation it’s not on one pedalboard. Sometime I use them on synths too or in the mix on say vocals. Hence why I don’t have a pedalboard.
You mentioned the big strymon pedals on this list, (timeline/bigsky). I was reading the manual for my strymon flint and it has a 1meg ohm input impedance and 100 ohm output impedance, does this means it’s buffered? I can’t find any information on changing the pedal to buffer or true bypass. Does anyone know if the smaller strymon pedals (flint/el cap/ lex) are buffered or true bypass?
You can set it to a buffered mode or true bypass mode. If it’s in the true bypass mode, the buffer will only be working when the pedal is engaged to provide the hundred ohm output impedance
Would the T.C. bonafide/tuner at the beginning of chain......& T.C. Flashback Delay at the end of chain (output) create equal/same results as the Mesa Highwire, Suhr buffer, or Bona-Fide buffer can do? Trying to decide which way to go.....and if there's better results to be had with stand alone buffers. Thanks
What about Boss pedals? I use my guitar into the Boss tuner and at the end have my Boss EQ pedal for a boost. I'm aware they are buffered but how well do thier buffers compair to other brands?
I have a question. I own the Polytune 3 mini, when the pedal is switched to "buffered bypass" and If I disconnect the power cable, I have noticed that I can still hear my guitar. Isn't it supposed that in the buffered bypass the guitar should not be heard when the power is disconnected? I mean this is the standard test for true-bypass pedals, but if the pedal is not in that configuration anymore, maybe it is not a real buffer? or maybe I have a faulty pedal? Thank you.
I have the pedal too… and I can attest that the buffer does work. It’s noticeable. It preserved the high end of the signal. This is what I think : The pedal is wired for true bypass but has a switch that routes the signal through the buffer, but I believe the pedal needs power for this switch to work, so if there’s no power it just takes it’s normal TB route.
I am glad I bought a TC 3 Polytune today. I paid only 75.00 "Mint" through Gear Exchange. There were more expensive tuners. The ratings I saw ere very good.
Does the Flashback Triple delay have the same level of buffer as the other flashback delays? In the manual it says that it is switchable from true bypass to a buffered bypass and I was wondering if this buffer met that impedance requirement in both or either modes. It looks like it to me but maybe you'd like to check it out. www.fullcompass.com/common/files/33201-tcelectronicFlashbackTripleDelayManual.pdf
Does a buffer needs to be in the last of chain if it is going to a DI Box that is on the pedalboard? (Referring to Walrus's Canvas pedal, or any Amp modellers that has Balanced DI out) Also, is a buffer matter if the TB pedals are in the send/return loop of an amp modeler? (Meaning its on the same board and doesn't drive long cables)
It’s ideal that you have a low output impedance as the last device in the event you don’t have something to convert the signal to balanced like an SGI or similar.
I got a Malekko ekko 616 about 10 years ago and one of the things i liked was the buffer that would be on when the pedal is off, so the signal is always buffered.
I have a big pedalboard with a polytune buffered at the start and have the universal audio dream 65 amp emulator (always on) at the end of my signal chain running a long cable direct to front of house, should i use a buffer after the dream 65 or should the buffer inside it enough?
Actually a question here - are there any downside of having multiple built-in buffers enabled in pedals? For example, would having 3 Strymon pedals in series with buffered bypass all enabled be better or worse compared to just the last one having buffered bypass enabled?
Does the output impedance on a input buffer matter as much as it does on an output buffer? I have a boss waza craft tuner and it has a 1M input impedance but a 1k output impedance. It’s not driving a long line of cable at all, the next pedal on my board is very close. Will I see any time loss due to the large output impedance even though it’s not driving a long line of cable
If you had to compromise on the output impedance, I would say the input Buffer would be the place, but ideally you want is low of an output impedance as possible, as close to zero as possible
So for the life of me I can’t find the output impedance of my Keeley Tone Workstation as a pedal or its individual circuits (I’m new enough at this stuff to not be sure if each would have its own or if that’s something where likely all would have the same at point of output jack). For sake of education/conversation: Since the Katana is a transparent boost, let’s pretend it was even perfectly transparent, if the impedance is indeed nice and low around 100, would having it on at unity basically be the same as a good buffer? Thanks again for all the insight!
I'm sure you can email them. Yes, it would be a buffer if always left on, but it would only really be effective if it were first (as an input buffer with a 1M input impedance) or last.
Does the FX loop need to be "firewalled" the same way as you're "firewalling" the front of the amp? And on the front of the amp, if you have a fuzz pedal that should still be first in your chain and then your input buffer, right? Thanks for all the info, your vids are great!
Hi Mason! Can you talk about using ACTIVE pickups into the same 1Meg ohm input? Should there be an exception there? And if so, what’s a simple way (fix) to be able to go back & forth between active and passive guitars into the same pedalboard? Thanks bro! 😎🎸🤘🏻
It won't hurt the active pickups to go into a good buffer on the input, alternatively you could find a buffer with a buffer bypass on the input for when you use your active pickups.
So my Pedalboard goes like this GLXD-16 receiver-Radial Bigshot i/O-Guul Noise gate (Fortin Zuul Clone)-Radial SGI Tx. I'd like to know if any of these pedal have a Buffer? Do I need An Input buffer? I know that the Radial SGI has a Buffer insidebut i'm not sure what ohm it is.
The wireless is your input buffer. The Radial I don't think has a buffered output, but you can check that on their manual. The Fortin probably is low output z but again check it. You're looking for 100 ohm output impedance, 1M input impedance. For the output buffer the input Z doesn't matter so much.
Do you know of any effects pedals with high-quality built in buffers that we missed in this video? Tell us in the comments!
Running List of Pedals with GREAT Buffers:
bit.ly/2UL5WCU
Great to see the Spark on there. Will a Behringer 1 in 2 out such as the CO600 (Boss chorus ensemble clone) or the DD600 delay or RV600 reverb have a decent buffer? Trying play/demo/film upstairs. Buffered pedals to push to ABY to amps mic'd downstairs and back up from mixer headphone out buffered pedal pushing back upstairs to interface and monitors. Thanks
@@Gearjunkie35JasonBallou look up the specs...you have the range I suggested to look for so you can compare.
@@VertexEffectsInc Will do, Appreciate the input and the magic 100/1meg combo guideline. 'Preciate ya!
How about the MXR/CAE 403 or is it 406 buffer with the slide up front....is it any good?
Jackson Audio Prism?
I'd love to see the exact opposite of this: pedals with not so great buffers and how much they change the tone of the guitar. Excellent work as always
It's much more variable, the more capacitance a poor buffer sees on the output the worse it gets.
I can add something to this - the Boss GE-7 EQ pedal. Both Xacttone and Analogman offer a mod where they make the pedal true bypass and also do something to cut down on the noise. After their mods, the pedal becomes much more usable.
@@VibhasPatil Indeed, replacing the NJM022 op amps in the GE-7 greatly improves the noise floor issue. I wish Boss would make it stock, even though replacements OPs have a much higher current draw.
@@VibhasPatil Yes! I have the Xacttone mod and it’s so good!
@@VibhasPatil Sure, but that doesn't change the output impedance.
Hi Mason, Just wanted to follow up again to say thank you for the great counsel. I just added the inexpensive TC buffer at the end of my signal chain and WOW. What a difference. The improvement is drastic. Super grateful!
Amazing! Great news!
Thanks Mason, this is exactly where my head has been as i'm planning a pedal board and trying to save space by finding units that fit a dual purpose thus saving real estate on the pedal board~
Hopefully this helps!
4:08 I expected to see some "Subscribe to our mailing list and we'll send you pedal list via email" nonsense, but there's an actual list in the link. You're awesome.
Enjoy! We'll continue to add to the list!
I have a question: at the end of my signal path I have a Strymon Big Sky then a Ditto X4 Looper. Do I need a buffer after the looper or is the one inside the Big Sky enough? Sorry if it's a stupid question I'm new to all of this
Another highly informative video. Your other pedal order video, with the full visual chart, is another absolute reference video to learn and understand the importance of pedal order and necessary buffer input and out specs and placement! This video drives home the largely misunderstood buffer purpose/importance/placement even more. Thank you, Mason!
Awesome, thank you!
Looking to clarify one Of your last points about having a buffer in the middle of your chain being ineffective. I’ve got a polytune at the start and hof2 at the end but also a spark boost and boss dd7 in the chain. Does having another buffer in the middle of a chain cause a problem or did you just mean they won’t be effective if your only buffer is in the middle of your chain?
Ideally as much true bypass in between your high quality input and output buffers, but realistically any pedal on, true bypass or not, is a buffer, so I wouldn't sweat it. Just make sure you got your tuner in "buffer" mode as the first pedal, and your Reverb as your last pedal in buffer mode and you're good. The Spark is only "buffering" if it's turned on.
As someone who is beginning the journey of building their first pedalboard all of your videos are so helpful. Keep up the great work.
Happy to help!
Actually all Strymon pedals are 1M input and 100 ohm output impedances. Very smart of them.
Yes, good call on the analog side!
Strymon does everything correctly. Just a Top-notch company with Fantastic: follow-up: client service too. I love those guys & gals over there. They have "Earned my Business" oNe LovE from NYC
@@michael_caz_nyc Agreed! I’m proud to be a part of their family as an endorser. I’m also in NYC.
@@michael_caz_nyc Nice!
I'm 67 and still gigging 4-5 nights a week. Up until the last couple of years, I hadn't really given this subject much thought. Maybe because my pedals are Boss, and I haven't really noticed a problem with "tone suck". But now that I want to add a Uni-vibe type pedal in front of my pedal chain and I can't find a buffered one, I'm trying to figure this out. This video was extremely helpful to my understanding of this subject. Thank you! :-)
🙏🙏🙏
Great explanation and straight to the point as always, thanks 👌
Will low quality buffered pedals placed between the high quality input and output buffer affect the overall sound quality, does it matter what type of pedal is in-between at all? 🤔
Buffers in boss pedals are not of great quality and most of us have them somewhere in the rig 😅
Thanks for watching. No more than any other pedals for the most part being turned on. A few mediocre buffers here and there isn't too big of a deal so long as you make sure you have something good first and last in the chain with the right specs. I have Boss pedals in my rig too, just have to be judicious with them.
You must have so much work doing your videos because to record different situations and edit the videos in order to give us this final explanation... you deserve an academy award bro! You are amazing.
Thanks so much!
What about FX loops and even Looper pedals?
I was going to write this. I only have TC Corona, Flashback and Ditto in my fx loop (in that order) so I have them all in true bypass mode but I guess if i added 1-2 more pedals it would be better to turn the buffer mode on on the first and last position in the loop (?), excluding ditto since it's true bypass only.
And I don't even want to mention TC Sentry gate :D (if i have my wah and overdrive in the Sentry loop and then from Sentry out to the amp, when the gate is activated, it buffers the signal at the end, before the amp, right? O.o
*just to be clear, here's my signal path: guitar - tuner (true bypass) - TC Sentry (- loop of sentry: wah - overdrive) - higain amp - fx loop (- TC Corona - TC Flashback - TC Ditto).
Buffers have helped me a lot. I have a polytune 3 in the front of my chain and a buffered distortion pedal at the end of my "front of amp" section of my board. I only have 2 pedals in my FX loop so the last one is bufferd
Providence System Tuner! It's just awesome!
What’s the spec?
@@VertexEffectsInc
Input impedance: 1 MΩ
Output impedance: 100 Ω
With a send and return as well, so you can put all your pedals in its loop and it's done. It's also switchable to true bypass and it has a handy DC out.
That thing looks amazing
Thank you for this video. I was having volume drops with some my modulation pedals and was looking into getting a buffer. But a already had a Polytune and a Pitchfork on my board, both have buffers. So a little rearranging of my board and problem solved.
For those interested my Polytune is at the end and ehx pitchfork at the beginning.
So it's pitchfork, ehx flanger hoax (was having volume drops), always on overdrive (jhs twin twelve), big muff, small clone, small stone, Rafferty timepiece (delay, trem, reverb) and Polytune.
Wow, some manufacturers make this hard to find haha however I did notice that the two stroke pedal from orange amps does mention a buffered bypass, but I am surprised to see that not many manufacturers mention the specs you mentioned in the video. (other than giving them a call or an email I assume) - very interesting. and great work, as always.
Thanks for watching!
Thank you for you good video production and practical service to the guitar community with the resources you provide in the description.
Glad to help!
I'm in the midst of reconfiguring my board; and have learned a ton from your videos. Two buffers for which I'd love you to test: Peterson Strobostomp HD, which will be my input buffer, right after fuzz; my output buffer will be the Temple Audio 4 X MOD PRO, I'll be using three of its four buffers to connect to my amp and my effects loop. Fourth buffer on that will be switched off, as I'm using that connector for a footswitch.
The timing on this is perfect. I've had my Big Sky in Bypass-mode. ( 1 week ago, I activated the internal buffer ) = My Guitar Tone is significantly improved. Great stuff here.
🙌🙌🙌
@@VertexEffectsInc When you say "buffered or True bypass (switchable)", where is that found on the pedal and I assume if your going to use them as buffers ,these would have to be switched inside? I have a TC poly 3 bonafide as the input and a hall of fame for the output- just don't know where to find it.... Thanks-great stuff.
you are a BEAST with these amazing informative uploads,, everything that comes out of your mouth is gold and i highly appreciate that you chose youtube to share your wisdom ❤️🙏
I appreciate that!
I use TC Electronic Spark Mini and Flashback as input and output buffers
This was great. My Polytune has a buffer, although I need to move it, and I have a TC Spark Mini just sitting in a box, so that's going at the end of my chain as the output buffer. Your list saved me from buying an extra pedal, and gets me using one I already have.
Excellent Episode Mason!!! I always take away something good from your vids! Keep on Rockin' Man!!
Thanks a ton!
A lot of people are using modelers and I noticed things like the HX Stomp are buffered. How should we treat devices like Helix, Kempers, and AxeFX with regards to a buffer? Should we have an output buffer before these devices if we are using them for amp sims or should we treat them as output buffers? I'm building a modeling board for live use to use with a FRFR speaker and want to know if I need to get an output buffer. Thank you for the really great tutorials and tips!
You're stilling using cables and effects into them...so the rules are still the same.
Super generous, thanks for sharing these insights Mason. Rock on!
My pleasure!
Great description. I’ll rewatch this several times! Thank you!!
Thanks for watching!
I'm a new to playing bass guitar 🎸, thanks for your excellent video, that chart showing pedal orders 😀 is very much appreciated 😀 👍
My pleasure!
Thanks for the tips in this video. I recently got into pedals and unless someone already suggested it, l’d like to add the TC Electronic Bonafide Buffer.
Good stuff!
I've got the MXR M300 reverb, but put it in the effects loop with the Boss DD3. The MXR EVH chorus/phaser and flanger is in front of the amp.
Cool!
It would have been really useful if you played a comparison of the guitar into amp using the 30 foot coil without buffer, so we could compare what (supposed) tone suck would sound like in comparison without a buffer. Thanks for another nice video.
Agree! We have just samples of clean tone.
6:24 direct In
6:51 polytune
7:11 bigsky buffered
7:27 ecosystem buffered
Good stuff. I learn from every one of your videos. Appreciate you
Thanks for watching!
I play with a JHS buffer > Strymon Iridium > BigSky > DI box > front of house desk. Is it worth using the BigSky's buffer in this scenario?
If the Strymon BigSky is always on then it doesn't really matter since any pedal turned on, true bypass or not, is buffering.
Question: Shouldn't the control (guitar to amp) have the same cabling as the tests? You ran a short cable then added long cables and buffers. Why not run long cables to the amp ? There doesn't seem to be anything to compare the "bad" signal to... Thoughts?
I would love to see an episode with pedals with level issues ie. Level drop when turned on and how to fix it. I have an old Peavey distortion pedal, has a cool distortion, however when it's engaged the volume drop is horrible even with the level cranked .
It's too variable, sometimes it can be an design issue, sometimes it can be a pedals that's broken.
@@VertexEffectsInc it's an old old Peavey Hotfoot , the red one with the really ugly rubber button switch. I've seen a lot of complaints about it, but it has an old vintage warm fuzz sound. I've tried it on 3 of my amps, definitely works better with the tube amps. It has potential, but not with the level issue. Really appreciate getting back so quickly, cheers!
@@charlesb7831 Try a boost after it.
Such a great episode and useful information with links and all. Like always 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for this Doc, made my life a lot easier planning out my fx loop and ensuring I had something buffing at the points I needed. Maybe I'll send it your way for a grading, but I'm sure I use way too much of the same brands lol. Cheers!
Strymon Buffers, real good. I have had problems with certain reverb/delay pedals just not buffering well at the end of my chain. Hardwire Supernatural or the Strymon Volante just get it done perfectly for me with little or no signal loss with over 20 feet of cable.
Right after fuzz and wah near the input, I just leave my Digitech Freqout on momentary mode and it's buffered quite well into the ES-5. After ES-5 I have a volume pedal into an EQ2 with buffers on and finishes into delay and reverb.
Hardwire I think is about 1K on the output impedance. Not ideal.
Hey Mason thanks for the awesome videos. They’ve been really helpful especially for someone like me I live in a small town so this type of hobby is not popular lol. You’re advice as well That Pedal Show has helped me to get my pedalboard to be awesome and quite. So I want thanks for all that you guys do keep up the great work.
Glad to hear it!
@@VertexEffectsInc you’re welcome.
@@jamesfafrak7288 🙏🙏🙏
So I have a pedal with a high-q buffer at the front of my chain, and another pedal with a high-q buffer at the end of my chain, then I don't need to use actual buffer pedals bcos my high-q pedals are already doing the same job?.. Also, does this apply to audio interfaces when going into a DAW via my pedal board using the Strymon Iridium?.. I imagine that it would, but not really sure.. 🤔
Hey Mason,
First time caller; long time listener. I have really enjoyed the videos and tutorials on buffers and videos. They are very informative and you a fantastic presenter! Kudos, man. It’s awesome to see you collaborating with some of the bigger retailers and companies. You’re really developed an A1 reputation and you seem to be very busy, I can’t believe your still reply to every message!
My deep dive goes into bass buffers and pedal board patch bays. I have jumped into the google machine and FB Guitar Pedal Building groups, before I come here to find some answers, but I’m not finding what I think I need.
For bass, I know you’ve said varied impedance, generally 4-10 ohm for a bass input buffer, where are we looking for this value? Is there a preferred % tolerance.
Can we make our own input/output buffer/junction box in one for bass on veroboard? Can we use and what do we need to be changing on a veroboard Cornish buffer build to meet that 4ohms. How do we find these input/output impediences on a build.
Am I asking too many questions, trade secrets or, could this be a cool video. I can appreciate that I’m asking some questions here with a very base-level understanding of pedal-building, not understanding the engineering behind the build.
Thanks in advance and I hope you have a resource or two, or even better yet, get to make a vid in this.
Cheers! Brendan
Thanks for watching! The Bass input Z (Z is short or impedance), is to be matched with your amp's input impedance. If you amp is 1M, your input buffer loading should be 1M. If you bass if 5M, your input buffer should be set to 5M input Z. The closer you get to the input impedance of your amp, the more you bass is going to feel and react as it would if you were plugged directly into the amp with your bass. The lower the number (relative to you amp's input impedance), the more loading there will be and more rolled off or dark it may sound. The higher your input impedance (relative to the amp's input Z) the more unloaded it will sound (brighter).
Peterson Stobo Stomp tuner HD lists the input buffer at 5m ohm and the output at 100ohm. Am I reading that correctly? What does the 5m input change in regards to tone? This is by far my favorite tuner and my rig sounds great with it. Just want to make sure the specs are legit. Thanks for all the info! I learn so much from your videos.
I saw a video he said it’s better for the bass guitar
Thanks for this! It’s nice to have this info when making decisions for my board.
thanks for sharing ! exactly what the we needed doctor
Glad it was helpful!
First of all really appreciate the help. This knowledge made a HUGE difference for me in terms of tone when using pedals.
One question I would love to hear input on, how do buffers affect things in an effects loop? I’ve put a few pedals with questionable buffers in my loop on my orange rockerverb and it seems like it suffers WAY less with them in the loop versus in front.
Thanks so much again for all the help with the nonstop quest for tone.
Great video Mr. Marangella !!! Very well organized, objective experiment.
Glad you liked it!
Thanks for finally pointing out what specs a pedal with build in buffer should have. I'm using a NUX Sculpture Compressor and wasnt sure if the buffer is any good or if I should get an additional buffer. It has an input impedance of 1 M ohm and an output one of 20 ohm, so at least from those numbers the quality should be ok for an affordable pedal 😁
Thanks very much for the excellent information, advice, recommendations and succinct explanations. A most valuable video, hugely appreciated.
Tc electronic has 1m in 100 out buffer on their stand alone pedals that you can enable using an internal dip switch.
Got PolyTune3 with buffer and always on mode on.
Love it.
Also gonna get the Sentry Noise Gate from TC.
One of our favorite tuners!
I’m late to the party. Why do I feel like on the buffered samples there’s some higher frequencies kinda ringing that I don’t hear on the reference sample? It’s very subtle though, but they seem to be there (at least to my ears). Is this even possible or is it just my brain tricking me?
ya, it's me again. i have been using my EHX Mel9 as the "powered splitter" for my ambient rig. the mel9 is 1Mohm in and 500ohm on both outputs. not as beefy as a dedicated buffer, but still a decent amount of beef. But the "dry" output is pure clean buffered version of the input and i can turn down the effects and use that output clean too. i use the Mel9 as my first pedal. the malekko 616 is never the first pedal.
Is the Mel9 on all the time? The output impedance is only working to assist when the pedal is "ON" and last in the chain as an output buffer. I believe this pedal is true bypass.
@@VertexEffectsInc Ya, the mel9 has to be powered to pass signal, so the outputs are buffered whether the effect is on or off. actually the dry out is just a separate straight-thru buffer. So what i can do is set the effect level to zero, then only the dry signal is going out the wet output = powered splitter with no digital A/D.
I have 3 ehx digital pedals (mel9, ocean12, grand canyon) and they all have to be powered or they pass no signal.(kind of irritating actually) no true passive bypass any more. i think the rules are all changing with these digital pedals.
Many thanks. Question. What will happend to the signal if I put two buffers at the end of the chain…Mercury 7 (or Empress Reverb) and tc polytune (as tuner/buffer/kill switch). I tested both variants and it sounds always better with TC bufffer on
I would put the Polytune First so you get the input buffer and the Mercury 7 last so you get the output buffer. You're not getting any the proper loading of your pickups on the input with out the 1M input loading. Putting two series buffers isn't doing much at the end. The last pedal is still going to determine the line driving ability, the buffer before it is only buffer the patch cable connecting the two last pedals which isn't going to resolve much tone wise.
@@VertexEffectsInc thx. I have vertex boost as input buffer:)
@@pavelsajner51 Good call!
Great information as always, nicely explained. How do you rate the buffers on Boss pedals? these are super common and have heard that they serve well.
They're awful and in no way comparable to what we listed in our "approved" buffer list or the pedals shown here.
Any idea what the numbers are on the (latests model) Strobostomp HD? That's the first pedal in my chain.
I'm sure you can inquire with Peterson or their spec sheet.
Having a non-buffered example with the 10’ and 30’ coil cables would have been better to hear what the buffer was doing exactly.
can someone help? im looking at the TC Spark Mini to replace my Xotic Super Clean (1k output imp). but the TC Spark Mini is saying it's true bypass. so is it just about the impedance values or does it also have to be a buffered bypass with those values? thanks anyone!
If it's true bypass, the output and input impedance is only in play if it's "on"
@@VertexEffectsInc thanks VE!
Is there a way to make the line 6 hx stomp to be buffered out? Like in the setting? Or should I just put a boost block at the end?
I think it already is or can be set to buffered, not sure the output impedance but I recall it around 500K or higher.
With a lot of people running pedals such as the Strymon Iridium at the end of the chain could there be included "amp in a box pedals" added to the buffer list. Strymon Volonte too? Also interested where a di box comes into play after something like the Iridium through a PA. More or less maybe an episode or input for those that run amp-less into a PA or straight into an interface for record situations? As always thank you for all your guidance Doc!
Strymon Volante and most of their devices are all 100 ohm output impedance so they would also work here as output buffers presuming their 1) in buffer mode, or 2) always on.
Super knowledgeable and helpful video. Thanks! 🎸
Thanks Mason. All questions I have are answered somewhere in the video or in replies to comments. We owe ya some trade definitely.
My pleasure
I’ve recently changed my rig to have the polytune 3 with the Bonafide Buffer (after my fuzz face) and your new Vertex Boost at the end of the chain. Definitely makes a difference.
My amp has a tube buffered effects loop, but I tried adding another stand alone buffer to drive the line back to the return, but it made no appreciable difference. I’m using a Carl Martin Headroom reverb last in the effects loop, it’s always on and seems to drive the line fine. Not sure what the impedance is when engaged.
Good news...not sure the output Z of the Carl Martin, I'm sure you can look it up on their website.
Hello Mason! What do you think of the Peterson Strobostomp mini Tuner as a buffer early in the signal chain?
How about the Joyo JF-317 Space Verb. 1M input, 100 ohm output, and 35ma running current. Some pedals I looked at had good input and output specs but took a lot of power (as much as 240ma), making it a pain to use some pedal board power supplies like the voodoo labs pedal power without having to double up with 2 outputs for extra current supply.
I haven't checked it out but the specs look promising for buffer quality!
Vahlbruch pedals in Germany are meeting these nice buffer specs too
Great video, thank you. I recently got a Mesa High Wire to solve both the input and output buffer. It actually sounds quite musical for a utility pedal, which is interesting to me because I don’t quite know why. The boost and tuner out options are great too. However, I realized the other day that I may not need it at all. Turns out that my Polytune 3 has a 100 ohm output buffer. So if I were to place it at the very of my chain, wouldn’t this solve the output buffer issue? Aside from the annoyance (or advantage) of placing the tuner last, isn’t this an elegant solution? The polytune can’t solve both buffers, but I feel like a 1meg input buffer is easier to find across many chain starter pedals…
What would you do for your output buffer if you used the Polytune...that only solves for the front end of the pedalboard.
Do you have to leave the pedal "On" ? if I use the TC PolyTune 3 as the input buffer... do I have to leave the tuner 'on' all the time or is it still buffer if I don't have it peddle'd on?
If it's in buffered mode, it's always buffering.
Super!!!!! everytime i learn something new from you ;) thank you
Happy to hear that!
Beautiful video! 😊
I have a question:
I use the boss wl-20l wireless system. An Impedance output of 1 kohm is declared on the site.
Is it correct to use a buffer immediately after the wl-20l receiver?
My first pedal is a Polytune 3, then all strymon pedals in true by pass and the last the strymon iridium always active.
Is the Polytune buffer needed in this case?
Thanks for the answer ❤
According to Josh Scott from JHS, all BOSS pedals are a buffer in themselves. With Mason mentioning Strymon as the same, it looks like you are taken care of. I also am mostly Strymon and needed was great to hear Mason echo Scott's sentiment of BOSS also is carried through all Strymon pedals as well.
I felt the Big sky jumped out at me with some coloration or "change" in tone. Great comparison tho, especially the way you blended the compares in quick succession. I feel that tone memory is SO short, seconds only sometimes so it really helps to hear them literally seamlessly.
Could be the it eliminated all the capacitance on the output of your rig that you were used to having more capacitance with.
@@VertexEffectsInc No, what I was hearing and commented on was your video demo of these pedals. At least on the speakers I was listening on, the big sky stood out to me just a bit compared to the others.
Question re: volume pedals - I'm using a TC Polytune 3 in buffered mode as my input buffer. My signal then goes into a Micro POG, followed by an OCD, TS9 and MXR M78. Ideally I'd like to place a volume pedal next, before my signal goes into modulation and delay effects. Would you recommend a low impedance pedal (e.g., Ernie Ball VP Jr 25K) versus a high impedance (250k), given my use of the input buffer? Thanks!
Typically if you have an input buffer you want to go lower impedance, 25K. Sometimes it can act differently depending on the pedal that's on before it if it has a really high output impedance, but generally 25K is ideal for something that's already buffered.
Mason, question for ya. I have a EHX Superswitcher, which has a buffer and I also have a TC Polytune 3, with a buffer. The tuner is plugged in to its own designated input on the switcher. What position would you consider those buffers in my signal chain? Thanks.
Are you sure the tuner isn’t fed by an output from the switcher? In that case it’s not adding anything, it’s not part of your signal path - presumably that tuner output is paralleled off the input buffer of your switcher
@@VertexEffectsInc Ok, that makes sense. So, would I put a buffer/buffered pedal at the end of my chain being that the switcher has a buffer?
@@kevinbond3968 if it's stereo you'll need a stereo buffer if you're using both outputs. You could put your tuner first to get a good input buffer as well.
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks Mason, and keep the vids coming. I learn a ton from them.
@@kevinbond3968 I'm so pleased!
How do you feel about the UAFX pedals as an out buffer. The spec is 500 ohms.
Is there a stereo buffer with 100 ohms that can sum with stereo output to mono when needed?
I came in with the same question. I’m using the 1176 pedal in the first spot on my board and loving it, but as you say 500k output. I wonder if that’s adjustable somehow?🤷♂️
I run my guitar into 2 separate amps and have been looking at Radial’s Shotgun 4-channel Amp Driver. It has buffering and would be perfect at the end of my pedal chain, but isn’t on Vertex’s list.
Question: In a situation without a pedalboard, but in a studio setting where usually 1-3 pedals at a time at most are connected and used based on specific tone that’s needed, are buffers necessary?? Again… say 20 pedals are sitting in a cabinet and only connected as needed. Not on board at same time.
(This excludes situations of specific old pedals like boss ce1 where a buffer in front helps the guitar not lose a lot of highs)
I’m pretty sure these are all about live playing. It is extremely rare that the sound coming out of an amp is the same as the sound of a mixed and mastered guitar track. The studio tools have all the eq shaping power needed and buffers won’t be heard in this sense.
Depends on how long the cables are and how good of a line driver your pedals are in terms of the output impedance.
@@VertexEffectsInc not too long it’s in a mid sized studio with the amps right there. No more than 8-10 feet from guitar to first pedal then various short patch cables between various pedals then another 4-6 foot cable to amp. All Mogami also.
@@adams5989 What's the input and output impedance of your first and last pedal?
@@VertexEffectsInc I have a lot of pedals they vary. I’m trying to say I use different ones in different combos depending on what I need. So I might be doing a song that a part needs a ts9 and a compressor or a song that just needs an overdrive or one that needs just a flanged or a stereo delay etc. which ones I use and in what order changes every situation it’s not on one pedalboard. Sometime I use them on synths too or in the mix on say vocals. Hence why I don’t have a pedalboard.
You mentioned the big strymon pedals on this list, (timeline/bigsky). I was reading the manual for my strymon flint and it has a 1meg ohm input impedance and 100 ohm output impedance, does this means it’s buffered? I can’t find any information on changing the pedal to buffer or true bypass. Does anyone know if the smaller strymon pedals (flint/el cap/ lex) are buffered or true bypass?
You can set it to a buffered mode or true bypass mode. If it’s in the true bypass mode, the buffer will only be working when the pedal is engaged to provide the hundred ohm output impedance
Would the T.C. bonafide/tuner at the beginning of chain......& T.C. Flashback Delay at the end of chain (output) create equal/same results as the Mesa Highwire, Suhr buffer, or Bona-Fide buffer can do? Trying to decide which way to go.....and if there's better results to be had with stand alone buffers. Thanks
Yes. That would be fine.
What about Boss pedals? I use my guitar into the Boss tuner and at the end have my Boss EQ pedal for a boost. I'm aware they are buffered but how well do thier buffers compair to other brands?
Poorly, that's why they're not listed
I have a question. I own the Polytune 3 mini, when the pedal is switched to "buffered bypass" and If I disconnect the power cable, I have noticed that I can still hear my guitar. Isn't it supposed that in the buffered bypass the guitar should not be heard when the power is disconnected? I mean this is the standard test for true-bypass pedals, but if the pedal is not in that configuration anymore, maybe it is not a real buffer? or maybe I have a faulty pedal? Thank you.
I have the pedal too… and I can attest that the buffer does work. It’s noticeable. It preserved the high end of the signal.
This is what I think :
The pedal is wired for true bypass but has a switch that routes the signal through the buffer, but I believe the pedal needs power for this switch to work, so if there’s no power it just takes it’s normal TB route.
I am glad I bought a TC 3 Polytune today. I paid only 75.00 "Mint" through Gear Exchange. There were more expensive tuners. The ratings I saw ere very good.
Does the Flashback Triple delay have the same level of buffer as the other flashback delays? In the manual it says that it is switchable from true bypass to a buffered bypass and I was wondering if this buffer met that impedance requirement in both or either modes. It looks like it to me but maybe you'd like to check it out.
www.fullcompass.com/common/files/33201-tcelectronicFlashbackTripleDelayManual.pdf
Yes, looks like it
@@VertexEffectsInc Do you know if that buffer works the same if the pedal is kept in true bypass mode?
@@pretentiousdouche123 if the pedal is 'on' it's buffering, true bypass or not. If you leave it off then you want it in the buffered mode.
Does a buffer needs to be in the last of chain if it is going to a DI Box that is on the pedalboard? (Referring to Walrus's Canvas pedal, or any Amp modellers that has Balanced DI out)
Also, is a buffer matter if the TB pedals are in the send/return loop of an amp modeler? (Meaning its on the same board and doesn't drive long cables)
It’s ideal that you have a low output impedance as the last device in the event you don’t have something to convert the signal to balanced like an SGI or similar.
I got a Malekko ekko 616 about 10 years ago and one of the things i liked was the buffer that would be on when the pedal is off, so the signal is always buffered.
Wonder what the specs are
@@VertexEffectsInc i looked a bit for spec info, but i didnt find any. just the manual which talks about a gain trim pot inside
@@jjrusy7438 I suppose you'll need to email them.
I have a big pedalboard with a polytune buffered at the start and have the universal audio dream 65 amp emulator (always on) at the end of my signal chain running a long cable direct to front of house, should i use a buffer after the dream 65 or should the buffer inside it enough?
I want a looper pedal last in my chain. Any loopers with good buffers in them???
none of them that I’m aware of have the recommended specs are buffered bypass
mason, thanks for all the work! we need a list of the bad buffers! I still use my boss tu-2 tuner and start to worried.....
This video has been very helpful - thanks!
Actually a question here - are there any downside of having multiple built-in buffers enabled in pedals? For example, would having 3 Strymon pedals in series with buffered bypass all enabled be better or worse compared to just the last one having buffered bypass enabled?
I have just found this video, thanks so much for the list!
Excellent information, thank you.
Thanks for watching!
Does this mean that I can put my polytune after my fuzz seeing how it has the bonafide buffer built-in?
Is it necessary to add buffers to your effects Loop signal chain?
On the return for sure, and ideally you already have a buffered loop.
What about the Jackson audio bloom? I heard that was buffer but not sure if it meets everything your saying
Looks like 100K...pretty high for a buffer. I recommend 100 ohms, so it won't do well with any capacitance on the output.
Does the output impedance on a input buffer matter as much as it does on an output buffer? I have a boss waza craft tuner and it has a 1M input impedance but a 1k output impedance. It’s not driving a long line of cable at all, the next pedal on my board is very close. Will I see any time loss due to the large output impedance even though it’s not driving a long line of cable
If you had to compromise on the output impedance, I would say the input Buffer would be the place, but ideally you want is low of an output impedance as possible, as close to zero as possible
So for the life of me I can’t find the output impedance of my Keeley Tone Workstation as a pedal or its individual circuits (I’m new enough at this stuff to not be sure if each would have its own or if that’s something where likely all would have the same at point of output jack).
For sake of education/conversation: Since the Katana is a transparent boost, let’s pretend it was even perfectly transparent, if the impedance is indeed nice and low around 100, would having it on at unity basically be the same as a good buffer?
Thanks again for all the insight!
I'm sure you can email them. Yes, it would be a buffer if always left on, but it would only really be effective if it were first (as an input buffer with a 1M input impedance) or last.
@@VertexEffectsInc yup. Sweet.
Does the FX loop need to be "firewalled" the same way as you're "firewalling" the front of the amp? And on the front of the amp, if you have a fuzz pedal that should still be first in your chain and then your input buffer, right? Thanks for all the info, your vids are great!
Hi Mason! Can you talk about using ACTIVE pickups into the same 1Meg ohm input? Should there be an exception there? And if so, what’s a simple way (fix) to be able to go back & forth between active and passive guitars into the same pedalboard? Thanks bro! 😎🎸🤘🏻
It won't hurt the active pickups to go into a good buffer on the input, alternatively you could find a buffer with a buffer bypass on the input for when you use your active pickups.
Your link states the Flashback mini has a buffer. I believe the mini is true bypass only.
Then there’s a conflict in some of the manuals as it says that this can be adjusted in the software
This is the same issue I’ve picked up with Tc mini pedals.
So my Pedalboard goes like this GLXD-16 receiver-Radial Bigshot i/O-Guul Noise gate (Fortin Zuul Clone)-Radial SGI Tx. I'd like to know if any of these pedal have a Buffer? Do I need An Input buffer? I know that the Radial SGI has a Buffer insidebut i'm not sure what ohm it is.
The wireless is your input buffer. The Radial I don't think has a buffered output, but you can check that on their manual. The Fortin probably is low output z but again check it. You're looking for 100 ohm output impedance, 1M input impedance. For the output buffer the input Z doesn't matter so much.