I have a manual GU Patrol 4.8, but I’ll admit autos have a big advantage in sand that I’m surprised they never talked about. And that is in a manual if you realise you’re a gear too high changing down can’t be done quick enough in a lot of cases where as in an auto it won’t lose any momentum dropping down a gear. With some sand obstacles in a manual you need to take a guess what will be the best gear and commit to that gear.
My first decent 4x4 was a TJ Wrangler 6 speed manual. I wanted an auto but couldn't find one at the time. A year later I found a similar Wrangler with an auto so I bought it and planned to sell the manual. Fair to say, I didn't realise how much more I enjoyed the manual, especially 4x4ing. I just love the control you have and the extra challenge it brings. Ended up selling the auto a few months later😄.
I like Jeeps but they definitely gets a lot of Jeep issues. My brothers jeep pops out of 1st. But my dad GU patrol wont go into 1st sometimes soo... But stock jeeps are the best rock crawlers out of the bix
I prefer manuals in my 4wd but in saying that I haven't had the opportunity to take an automatic off road to compare it, I do like the ability to clutch start if need to
As a trucker, I'll 100% take a manual any day of the week, especially in winter (Canada) for commercial heavy trucks. My personal pickup (Ute) is an automatic. I'll take a good traditional auto for my daily driver and for towing my RV. If it's a sports car, I'd prefer a manual.
I have both, mostly wheeled manuals but my last 2 daily 4wds have/are both been auto and honestly I am glad they are. More relaxing to drive, WAY more control off road, hill climbs and technical tracks, being able to crawl slower and get speed faster is just great. I had poor mans torque lockup on my last one which was nice for beach driving. My current one does have hill decent but I dont really use it much. Its more of a gimmick imo. Its not hard to hold a brake pedal. You can still shift gears manually... for some reason people seem to think that once the car is in D, your not allowed to move it. On the chance I kill a starter motor, I just carry a spare. Its not hard to change one trackside. I also dont have to worry about killing a clutch in a mud hole or hill climb. I cant say i have had an auto fail on me yet tbh but i have definitly had a few manuals go. I also find the auto is far more gentle on the rest of the drive train and with my BOTH of my auto cars, I have only broken 1 cv in the last 4 years. My manual 4wd's before them I would have done a dozen+ diffs, axles and CV's all together easily. My second car is a manual... for now. 🙂
Manual all day everyday for me! All though it kinda sucks a bit when stuck in peak hour traffic having to depress the clutch pedal a couple of hundred times, or at least that's what it feels like sometimes 😂
@@BlackSwordsman32 100% bro, especially going down all the hills here in NZ, lots more control, and the satisfaction of getting silky smooth shifts just isn't there in an auto
I have a newer manual vehicle and it is unable to be clutch started like the older manuals. It has a safety system (electrical) that doesn’t allow the engine to start without the clutch being depressed. Needs jump starting if battery is flat too as the ecu’s disable starting if the battery voltage is under a particular threshold. Also can’t perform a hill stall recovery the traditional way due to the need of a clutch depress, and can’t turn the starter over to align gears if needed in a stall recovery (ecu won’t allow it). Newer 4wd’s are a different beast to learn.
Interesting, see my older automatic lets me start no matter the voltage. I feel there should be manufacturer options for those recoveries in a MT as these aren't situations any of us want in the bush. Hopefully a company will produce an override kit if they haven't already.
Been driving a manual since I learnt to drive at the age of 10 in 1987. I appreciate that autos are easier to drive, although there is no comparison to understanding your engines perimeters by listening to what it what’s!
Ive had both autos and manuals in various 4wd's. Never had an auto fail yet. Yet had manuals fail and they stall all the time in high range on tough tracks.
I have always used a manual transmission, until recently! Here in the US, we do a lot more "Rock crawling," as has been shown in the videos when the boys came to the US! Recently, i had a major catastrophic failure in my manual transmission, and my nly option at the time was switching it to an automatic. Since taking it back out as an auto, I've fallen in love with the simplistic fun! I still prefer a manual in my tow vehicles, but after decades and decades of being a semi-truck driver, im getting tired of shifting and considering the jump to manual with upgrades!
I would so get a diesel if I could, especially a Troopy or LC 79 Ute. Too bad the dumb a$$ EPA and VW Group’s Dieselgate screwed us over having diesels here in the USA.
I’ve never owned an auto but I’ve been a manual Toyota driver for 35 + years, and in that time I’ve done lots of highway driving as well as bush driving, I don’t tow a caravan but I usually have a horse float on behind with 2 horses onboard and I still reckon you can’t beat a manual for that kind of work. Gear selection, engine breaking both particularly important with precious cargo on behind is so much more enjoyable in a manual. We tow horses into many areas of the vic high country and in my manual Toyota I always feel better.
I found that in snow, with the manual, you can ease out the clutch and prevent breaking traction with wheel spin. With an auto, I found that you may slowly increase pressure on the gas petal, but when the auto engages there is always wheel spin trashing any hope of traction in the snow.
Have had a few manuals for years including a fully modified GU Patrol with 4" lift, twin lockers, winbar etc. etc over last 8 - 10 years all my 4wds have been auto. Needless to say, I have been using both for many years. Give me auto ANYDAY. Will never go back to manual.
graham needs to do a Shorty GQ revival episode...go through the process of prepping an old 4be thats been in storage, is old and whats required to prepare it for a trip. then take it on a tour again.
Had Manuals all my life in 4x's but now have an auto Jeep JK8 and a manual jeep JKU. Both offroad alot. And I am still learning the Auto...it is different and jury is still out if Auto is my favorite for wheeling.
auto for off road (and commuting). manuals are fun for cars that are sporty, but in modern times they dont make things cheaper or easier any more. autos use less fuel, accelerate faster, and make things easier for general driving. some autos aren't great when trying to use some engine braking, but many are good at that too now - (locking the TC and clutch packs on zero throttle).
I had both manual and automatic in a disco 1 and disco 2 different engines yeah but I truly think autos are boss and this being a old auto to would love to try the newer auto think they be even better and haven’t look back since
A thing failed to mention here is the pickup and engagement form a twinplate clutch is much much more aggressive and they really dont like being slipped. They are much better at getting the power down and lighter pedal feel but it is much harder to do a hill start from a stop. Having a spring center helps with this however one of the biggest benefits which was also not mentioned is using a twin plate will put less stress on your crankshaft thrust bearings. This is because a twin plate doesn't need such a heavy pressure plate as a single plate clutch. I would not recommend getting a twin plate unless you are doing extreme off-roading or extreme towing. A better alternative would be to get a upgraded clutch disc using better materials (like a brass sprung center full face or puck type) or maybe just a slightly over rated pressure plate (no more than 15% over factory). I still would not get either of those unless I was having issues with the factory clutch.
4WD247 Shawno: 1:57 Manuals are overall tougher to always get you home. And jockey, better for remote. Also 4wd247: busts 2 manual vehicles on high country track and has to change 1 and abandon 1 on the track. Any box can have a problem, I'll take the auto thanks and have
With automatics it is recommended to pull the e-brake, shift into Neutral and release the foot brake to let the rig settle into the brake then shift into Park. That way you aren’t using the park gear hook to hold the vehicle.
Im in the states, have a manual Tacoma, i hit the trails once every few weeks to once a month, and i much prefer it over an auto( also due to the trans shifting issues in the 3rd gen). I like knowing i have the control of my gears and knowing my truck
You can stick your Auto where the sun dos'nt shine. Especially when going down a steep hill like Hernes spur in the Vic high country. There is nothing like going down that hill in something like a manaul 80 series in 1st low. I have been behind both a y62 and a late model 200 series going down a long very steep hill. And all i could smell was burning brakes as both were using hill descent .
Granted. You do have to manage the hills differently. I have 4:10 gears and a very low 1st in my auto. As long as I have it in 1st, and I feather the brakes instead of standing on them, it does just fine.
The auto in my LR has been perfect after 200+k miles. Ive also never had any issue engine braking in my truck as it has reduction gears. 1st gear low and it crawls down the hill. My daily driver was a 6spd, manual and it was fun, but overall I prefer the auto unless its a sports car.
auto with a manual gear selection is the best. With the tune in my Tacoma it locks the gears when in S mode. Auto when I need it and manual when I need it. perfect.
Towing everday and doing longer drives i prefer the manul for the engine braking and control and it means you have to always be doing something which if your getting to the ened of a long day i find im less likely to get bored and keeps me more alert. As said out bush its nice to know you can roll start or if you lost the clutch you should be able to limp out in one gear or rev match. Auto would be nice around town for brainless get in and go and not having to worry with hill starts with 3 ton behind you, but with my PK ranger ive done the mod to inhibit 4wd as needed, so i can use low 2wd for hill starts and revesing trailers. I can also say doing 3k km over multiple trips over 2 weeks up and down from launceston to cradle mountain/ lake st clair in a 2000 model forrester an auto would have been a god send as i rember my clutch leg was about shot from all the shifting. They both have their place.
Autos are the choice for 4wding. Stalling while rock crawling is not fun. Here in the US I’ve never not seen someone in a manual who wasn’t jerking around back and forth while trying to climb an obstacle
I've honestly seen MANY more people cook clutches on a manual under hard driving than I have blow an automatic. Definitely easier to replace a clutch if you have to, as the boys have shown us.
I've always had a manual but when I bought my landrover I went for a auto and as a daily it's just so much nicer it is definitely easier offroad too I'm definitely now team auto
I have currently have a AWD territory so it an auto as they didn't have manual option. As an urban vehicle it goes almost anywhere if you are careful. I have owned manual HJ60, HJ45 troopy and 1945 jeep with (yes a real one) Holden grey motor and a Holden Jackeroo. They were all manuals and except for the jeep, all diesel and like Graham I really enjoyed driving them. Back in the 70's I lived in Port Hedland and travelled 100's of thousands of ks on dirt roads, tracks and beaches. I can say that for the most part an auto would be my pick if for nothing else the lower fatigue levels. But I wouldn't knock back a good deal with a manual either. I think the bigger question would be, what's your 4x4 skill level and work with that because in the end that is going to be the failing point.
Plus driving a manual helps you stay awake and if you're awake that means you are a better driver the car keeps you awake and alert in the automatic car you can dove off and fall asleep so please keep making manual cars we need them!!!
Manual is definitely preferred for me. You guys are lucky, there are barely any new manual 4WDs here in the states. Autos have come a long way, especially in shift points and the speed of the shifts.
Every auto I've ever driven has the ability to manually select a gear so you can easily utilize engine braking.... I do it all the time in my current vehicle, which is an auto. Also, with most auto's, you have the ability to start going from 0mph in second or third gear, not that its that useful but it is possible.
Gearing is key. If I have to choose from a 6spd manual with two ODs and tall diff ratios, or a 6spd auto with two ODs and tall diff ratios. I'll take the auto. But if the vehicle is geared for purpose (towing/4WDing) rather than an arbitrary lab fuel consumption test, I'd choose manual all day long. Really hard to find now though, unless you go older.
Always owned a manual and just enjoy driving them a lot more. Sad that they’re slowly becoming nonexistent I’m pretty sure i got one of the absolute last manual LSU Dmax’s in Aus (MY22) and i’m super happy i got in before they disappeared.
Auto absolutely, more controlable and just a better drive, less stress on you and no need to have a larger left calf muscle! I have done a few hundres thousand miles (I used to drive about 250,000 annually on average) in manuals and I bought an auto for the daily driver and off roader, I'm converting Defenders to auto now as one of the things I do. There are benefits on electronic boxes and advantages of the good old fashioned oil pressure driven auto's, I have a ZF 4HP22 in the Defender, the same as the old D1 I did about 170,000 miles in. still perfect. so why go back. The usual fail points can easily be overcome with a few simple things like a gaurd over the oil cooler and keeping things clean.
Hey Jocko, When are you going to make some much needed upgrades to the zook. That little beast can do much more with some much needed mods, like mudterrains, and a lift kit
I own a 2005 Nissan Pathfinder with a sub-sequential gear box and I get the best of both worlds going down hill I can chuck it in first and let the engine slowly drive down and it saves my brakes a lot. But I would much rather drive a manual because of the control over the gears
A good manual and an experienced driver! 100 to 1 or better crawl ratio. I swapped a tremec 4050 5 sp manual into my 13 jeep Rubicon on 37"s. The oem 6 sp manual was weak, good, not great 1st gear ratio.
Auto is so much better than it used to be. Imagine...coming down King Billy and the manual hilux keeps popping out of 1st. Had to drive with one hand on the wheel so the other could hold the gear stick forward. And...broken toe. No worries in the auto - until I had to stop quickly (broken toe was actually on the right foot) I'm not a fan of any of the electronics in modern 4x4s - engines, gear boxes, transmissions, transfer cases, diffs and all the sensors - but it's either suck it up or stay in the '80's
For something remote and forever lasting -- auto as well. Come on guys, how can Shauno be saying "manual" when you had a whole rescue mission for the camera-men Patrol with a died clutch?! And had to replace a clutch on the zook in the bush. That never happens to an auto. If you dislike electronics, welp there are 100% hydro-mechanical automatic gear boxes exist out there, like the Aisin A440 on the HJ61 Land Cruiser - no electronics, no clutch that can break and leave you stranded. And even more "modern" gear box like the A442 which has gotten electric solenoids and an ECU, guess what, if one solenoid is toast - you are gonna miss that one gear, that's all. I've had a 80s land cruiser were 2nd gear solenoid has died and we still finished the trip. Also SOME manuals are a LOT weaker by design, i'm talking about TLC105 gear box, the manual is so fragile, i've seen plenty of them break prematurely, in the bush. And push-starting a vehicle is a so-so argument, not every time you can do that, better keep a spare battery and a spare starter motor for longer trips. There are only 2 pros about manual -- if for some reason you enjoy working harder for less performance, and it's somewhat cheaper to buy and maintain. And maybe long steep downhill descent scenarios, manual is a tad better. That's about it, the rest are all negative. The control and safety an auto gives over technical wheeling and remote traveling(no clutch dying all of a sudden) is worth everything for me, all the extra money and even a swap if I happen to buy a manual car -- go ahead and swap it to auto, it's not that hard or expensive, i've done it all by myself. PS: overheating is easily countered by additional oil cooler. I have NEVER overheated my auto, over the years of hard wheeling. Install a temperature gauge with a sound alarm as well that will also help to feel safe.
They never mentioned the fact that you can also shift a gear in most newer autos Eg going down a hill down shift to 1st or 2nd & it will also engine break
I personally haven’t driven an automatic 4WD I’ve only had 2 manual 4WD’s and like a manual so you can let motor take you down hills at it’s own pace instead of flooring it down and doing damage or come across sudden dips or bog holes but I would like to have a drive in an automatic to see the difference but with someone that owns one to show you the ropes
Manuals are great fun & better on descents, but a good auto (and I emphasise the GOOD part) is superior in every way. It's a myth that manuals are more bush proof. Maybe back on the 80s, but these days the chances of your auto trans or starter failing on you (again, provided you didn't buy trash) is slim to none unless you are a muppet or very unlucky. Clutch failure on the other hand is extremely common, and then you are just as rooted.
Have drivin a 1986 Nissan D21 4x4 Navara (aka Hardbody ) that had a 5 speed manual that was bombproof loved the lil bugger of a pickup ( Ute) over here in the USA when I was growing up up sadly I had to give her up due to lack of parts that were getting harder and harder to find over here which leads to my replacement a 2005 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD that has an Allison automatic engineered for heavy towing and when wheeling is a bit scary since the massive 6.6L Duramax diesel pumps out sooo much power and torque that it has enough power to to destroy its drivetrain lol compared to my old D21 that would trip over itself and stall without breaking nothing but if I have to choose between the two I would opt for my 2005 Chevy Duramax for the adventure in the wilderness of the USA
Here in the u s the manual transmission is pretty much gone. Years ago there was a thing called cash for Is conquers. Which means that if you brought your old beat up piece of crap vehicle they would give you top dollar for. In scrap value. So A lot of the older vehicles went by by then.
Yeah, in Australia they still sell heaps of manuals, but in the U.S. it’s hard to find one. Not sure even fleet vehicles use them anymore as a lot of people can’t drive stick.
Manual car improves your driving skills day by day, Automatic transmission reduces your driving skills, and Automatic transmissions are more complicated, more complicated = more problems
Purchased a vehicle with a gearbox and transfer rebuilt by 360 Gearbox and Diff., cost the previous owner around $6K, and another $2K to have it fitted professionally to make sure all the warranty conditions were met. Had 12 month/ 25000 k warranty. When i purchased the vehicle, gearbox was out of the 12 month period but had only traveled a few thousand Klm since it was installed. Reported a problem with the box at 23000 klm issue selecting 3rd gear and a noise in fifth, 360 would not honor the warranty despite consumer law. Rather they tried to duck out of any workmanship or responsibility, blaming everything from "clutch drag" the the vehicle having been driven off road. At 25000 klm the gearbox failed in 5th gear. On strip down found the end float tolerances were way out and the Nut holding the 5th and reverse gear onto the layshaft had spun undone . Nut had not been staked. On top of that found the wrong syncro ring had been used in 3rd gear. Clearly poor workmanship. Yes, mistakes happen. But you would hope that a reputable company would stand behind its product. In my years I have built many toyota, Nissan and rover boxes, and would not consider its reasonable to expect that a reco gearbox would fail within 25,000klm. Buyer beware.
Have a 12mth old stock standard Paj Sport Exceed I don't do hard off road, I've towed a 1.7t van I get excellent fuel economy tackles sand well. Seems to handle a bit of 4x4 fine. These don't seem to be on many peoples lists for off road not sure why as not a hard core off roader happy to be educated.
I preferred manuals for years, but then got sick of replacing clutches. Iv'e never had to replace a starter. These days I prefer an auto with manual lockup, a good valve body and cooler, but I always drive them manually, so effectively it's a clutch less manual. Also I've always believed that auto's were stronger (planetary over helical gears) and kinder to the driveline.
Both have positives and negatives but honestly off road auto all-day. In the sand its day and night your flogging your Manual most the time just to get on top and not bog down auto doesn't even struggle
The only reason I go manual is that if your battery dies while you're out camping, you've got the option of push starting. You're screwed in an auto until someone saves you
Automatics will give more control in 90% of 4wding. In saying this, some automatics have a mind of their own and can make it more difficult if they do not switch gear at the right time. But even after fitting extra gearbox coolers/radiators with fans, when the going gets really tough on step hills or soft sand or especially when towing through sand. The automatics will still overhead.
I will never drive another manual again , but in my experience they are better offroad . More freedom with the clutch to disengage . There’s times in my auto I get stuck on a hill and the trans is loaded up with torque and it makes a BAD sounds when going from drive to neutral or reverse ! And on sand climbs if you get stuck suddenly it will stall engine
The only time I find an auto better is when I’m eating a pie!!
The exact reason why Graham likes Manuals, like this comment if you want Shorty back on 4WD 24/7 we miss the old girl!!
I have a manual GU Patrol 4.8, but I’ll admit autos have a big advantage in sand that I’m surprised they never talked about. And that is in a manual if you realise you’re a gear too high changing down can’t be done quick enough in a lot of cases where as in an auto it won’t lose any momentum dropping down a gear. With some sand obstacles in a manual you need to take a guess what will be the best gear and commit to that gear.
I guess that comes with experience and knowledge of your vehicles capabilities
@@Sh1tstirsometimes it’s a no win if it’s a sand hill you have to downshift on. Some of them you have to start higher for the momentum.
My auto 4.8 loves the sand 😉
“Each to their own” would have summed it up in sub 60 seconds 😂
My first decent 4x4 was a TJ Wrangler 6 speed manual. I wanted an auto but couldn't find one at the time. A year later I found a similar Wrangler with an auto so I bought it and planned to sell the manual. Fair to say, I didn't realise how much more I enjoyed the manual, especially 4x4ing. I just love the control you have and the extra challenge it brings. Ended up selling the auto a few months later😄.
I like Jeeps but they definitely gets a lot of Jeep issues. My brothers jeep pops out of 1st. But my dad GU patrol wont go into 1st sometimes soo... But stock jeeps are the best rock crawlers out of the bix
I agree what they were saying on this video.
I like manuals gearboxes, because of their durability and flexibility.
I prefer manuals in my 4wd but in saying that I haven't had the opportunity to take an automatic off road to compare it, I do like the ability to clutch start if need to
How good is it to see Rocket Rod back!!! Now to get him back on the tracks with the boys 🙏
As a trucker, I'll 100% take a manual any day of the week, especially in winter (Canada) for commercial heavy trucks. My personal pickup (Ute) is an automatic. I'll take a good traditional auto for my daily driver and for towing my RV. If it's a sports car, I'd prefer a manual.
I have both, mostly wheeled manuals but my last 2 daily 4wds have/are both been auto and honestly I am glad they are. More relaxing to drive, WAY more control off road, hill climbs and technical tracks, being able to crawl slower and get speed faster is just great.
I had poor mans torque lockup on my last one which was nice for beach driving. My current one does have hill decent but I dont really use it much. Its more of a gimmick imo. Its not hard to hold a brake pedal.
You can still shift gears manually... for some reason people seem to think that once the car is in D, your not allowed to move it.
On the chance I kill a starter motor, I just carry a spare. Its not hard to change one trackside.
I also dont have to worry about killing a clutch in a mud hole or hill climb. I cant say i have had an auto fail on me yet tbh but i have definitly had a few manuals go.
I also find the auto is far more gentle on the rest of the drive train and with my BOTH of my auto cars, I have only broken 1 cv in the last 4 years. My manual 4wd's before them I would have done a dozen+ diffs, axles and CV's all together easily.
My second car is a manual... for now. 🙂
Good to see rocket back on the channel
He is back! I hope more episodes
Manual all day everyday for me! All though it kinda sucks a bit when stuck in peak hour traffic having to depress the clutch pedal a couple of hundred times, or at least that's what it feels like sometimes 😂
❤
i prefer slinging the gears
Autos better for everything except manual is much more fun
yep
Auto for everyday
And
Manual for hobbies??
You goth the point 👉
Manual all the way, so much more fun and satisfying to drive. Auto's are so boring. I love using my left foot and arm while driving
Same here mate, I prefer manual over auto due to its alot more fun to drive and I honestly feel like I have control of my vehical
@@BlackSwordsman32 100% bro, especially going down all the hills here in NZ, lots more control, and the satisfaction of getting silky smooth shifts just isn't there in an auto
Fucken oath brother
@@Bushbro9I live and was born in new Zealand and I completely agree I want to get more into offroading and manual is more fun.
Another 1 for manual. Cannot beat it for the bush
Rocket's back!
I have a newer manual vehicle and it is unable to be clutch started like the older manuals. It has a safety system (electrical) that doesn’t allow the engine to start without the clutch being depressed. Needs jump starting if battery is flat too as the ecu’s disable starting if the battery voltage is under a particular threshold. Also can’t perform a hill stall recovery the traditional way due to the need of a clutch depress, and can’t turn the starter over to align gears if needed in a stall recovery (ecu won’t allow it). Newer 4wd’s are a different beast to learn.
Interesting, see my older automatic lets me start no matter the voltage. I feel there should be manufacturer options for those recoveries in a MT as these aren't situations any of us want in the bush. Hopefully a company will produce an override kit if they haven't already.
Been driving a manual since I learnt to drive at the age of 10 in 1987. I appreciate that autos are easier to drive, although there is no comparison to understanding your engines perimeters by listening to what it what’s!
My auto has had hill decent system for 20 years & started in the same vehicles 25 years ago. Works flawlessly & and is very controlled 👍
Manual till the end
Yeeeessss definitely!!! Me too🤙
New vehicles have transmission fluid temps? WOW. Still won't give up my old manual 4x4.
If I remember correctly, I heard someone say, "Old school is good school."
Ive had both autos and manuals in various 4wd's. Never had an auto fail yet. Yet had manuals fail and they stall all the time in high range on tough tracks.
I have always used a manual transmission, until recently! Here in the US, we do a lot more "Rock crawling," as has been shown in the videos when the boys came to the US! Recently, i had a major catastrophic failure in my manual transmission, and my nly option at the time was switching it to an automatic. Since taking it back out as an auto, I've fallen in love with the simplistic fun! I still prefer a manual in my tow vehicles, but after decades and decades of being a semi-truck driver, im getting tired of shifting and considering the jump to manual with upgrades!
I'm with Graham. Nothing beats the satisfaction of a good gear change!
Beating a dead horse with these videos, diesel vs petrol and now man vs auto. Been done to death.
I would so get a diesel if I could, especially a Troopy or LC 79 Ute. Too bad the dumb a$$ EPA and VW Group’s Dieselgate screwed us over having diesels here in the USA.
I’ve never owned an auto but I’ve been a manual Toyota driver for 35 + years, and in that time I’ve done lots of highway driving as well as bush driving, I don’t tow a caravan but I usually have a horse float on behind with 2 horses onboard and I still reckon you can’t beat a manual for that kind of work.
Gear selection, engine breaking both particularly important with precious cargo on behind is so much more enjoyable in a manual.
We tow horses into many areas of the vic high country and in my manual Toyota I always feel better.
I found that in snow, with the manual, you can ease out the clutch and prevent breaking traction with wheel spin. With an auto, I found that you may slowly increase pressure on the gas petal, but when the auto engages there is always wheel spin trashing any hope of traction in the snow.
Have had a few manuals for years including a fully modified GU Patrol with 4" lift, twin lockers, winbar etc. etc
over last 8 - 10 years all my 4wds have been auto. Needless to say, I have been using both for many years.
Give me auto ANYDAY. Will never go back to manual.
I've got a manual Gladiator and my wife drives a manual JK. Wouldn't trade it for all the problem and automatic can present. Love the control.
Great episode and well done. Very balanced and good to see Rocket on the show. Hope we see him on some trips.
After 45+ years in manuals. I'm absolutely loving the auto. Never owned a 2wd vehicle.
Awesome video as always Jocko and Crew.
For me it's an auto for a 4WD, and a manual for a sports car.
This is the only logical conclusion
I’m exactly the same
I saw an auto Mazda MX5 and I was so disappointed. You get an MX5 for the manual.
graham needs to do a Shorty GQ revival episode...go through the process of prepping an old 4be thats been in storage, is old and whats required to prepare it for a trip. then take it on a tour again.
I love my manual land rover defender 110 because I never had 2 low down my tires for sand or rock's and in mud I just have 2 air down down a bit
Had Manuals all my life in 4x's but now have an auto Jeep JK8 and a manual jeep JKU. Both offroad alot. And I am still learning the Auto...it is different and jury is still out if Auto is my favorite for wheeling.
auto for off road (and commuting).
manuals are fun for cars that are sporty, but in modern times they dont make things cheaper or easier any more. autos use less fuel, accelerate faster, and make things easier for general driving.
some autos aren't great when trying to use some engine braking, but many are good at that too now - (locking the TC and clutch packs on zero throttle).
I totally agree with Graham's opinion 👍
I had both manual and automatic in a disco 1 and disco 2 different engines yeah but I truly think autos are boss and this being a old auto to would love to try the newer auto think they be even better and haven’t look back since
A thing failed to mention here is the pickup and engagement form a twinplate clutch is much much more aggressive and they really dont like being slipped. They are much better at getting the power down and lighter pedal feel but it is much harder to do a hill start from a stop. Having a spring center helps with this however one of the biggest benefits which was also not mentioned is using a twin plate will put less stress on your crankshaft thrust bearings. This is because a twin plate doesn't need such a heavy pressure plate as a single plate clutch.
I would not recommend getting a twin plate unless you are doing extreme off-roading or extreme towing. A better alternative would be to get a upgraded clutch disc using better materials (like a brass sprung center full face or puck type) or maybe just a slightly over rated pressure plate (no more than 15% over factory). I still would not get either of those unless I was having issues with the factory clutch.
4WD247 Shawno: 1:57 Manuals are overall tougher to always get you home. And jockey, better for remote.
Also 4wd247: busts 2 manual vehicles on high country track and has to change 1 and abandon 1 on the track.
Any box can have a problem, I'll take the auto thanks and have
With automatics it is recommended to pull the e-brake, shift into Neutral and release the foot brake to let the rig settle into the brake then shift into Park. That way you aren’t using the park gear hook to hold the vehicle.
Im in the states, have a manual Tacoma, i hit the trails once every few weeks to once a month, and i much prefer it over an auto( also due to the trans shifting issues in the 3rd gen). I like knowing i have the control of my gears and knowing my truck
You boys been running with a few autos in the convoy over the past few years, seems like no issues on camera. That we've seen anyway
True that and they give that D-Max a floggin!
Last auto I remember that gave the boys some trouble was on Daryl
You can stick your Auto where the sun dos'nt shine. Especially when going down a steep hill like Hernes spur in the Vic high country. There is nothing like going down that hill in something like a manaul 80 series in 1st low. I have been behind both a y62 and a late model 200 series going down a long very steep hill. And all i could smell was burning brakes as both were using hill descent
.
100%, hill decent is a con on long steep hills
Granted. You do have to manage the hills differently. I have 4:10 gears and a very low 1st in my auto. As long as I have it in 1st, and I feather the brakes instead of standing on them, it does just fine.
Car descent control?
@@23860 uses the brakes to control your decent automatically, not good for long decents as brakes can over heat
These issues are fixed with a lockup kit, got reduction gears in my Gu auto should be awesome downhill now
learned on a standard, always be my preference regardless of how good new autos are. great vid
I've got the 2018 gsx BT50 manual. Love it great ute being a 3.2td 6spd its a beast.
The auto in my LR has been perfect after 200+k miles. Ive also never had any issue engine braking in my truck as it has reduction gears. 1st gear low and it crawls down the hill.
My daily driver was a 6spd, manual and it was fun, but overall I prefer the auto unless its a sports car.
auto with a manual gear selection is the best. With the tune in my Tacoma it locks the gears when in S mode. Auto when I need it and manual when I need it. perfect.
Bring Rocket Rod back boys! Go do some tracks with the legend!
Towing everday and doing longer drives i prefer the manul for the engine braking and control and it means you have to always be doing something which if your getting to the ened of a long day i find im less likely to get bored and keeps me more alert. As said out bush its nice to know you can roll start or if you lost the clutch you should be able to limp out in one gear or rev match. Auto would be nice around town for brainless get in and go and not having to worry with hill starts with 3 ton behind you, but with my PK ranger ive done the mod to inhibit 4wd as needed, so i can use low 2wd for hill starts and revesing trailers. I can also say doing 3k km over multiple trips over 2 weeks up and down from launceston to cradle mountain/ lake st clair in a 2000 model forrester an auto would have been a god send as i rember my clutch leg was about shot from all the shifting. They both have their place.
Autos are the choice for 4wding. Stalling while rock crawling is not fun. Here in the US I’ve never not seen someone in a manual who wasn’t jerking around back and forth while trying to climb an obstacle
I've honestly seen MANY more people cook clutches on a manual under hard driving than I have blow an automatic. Definitely easier to replace a clutch if you have to, as the boys have shown us.
2:25 right there Im 100% with that in mind
I've always had a manual but when I bought my landrover I went for a auto and as a daily it's just so much nicer it is definitely easier offroad too I'm definitely now team auto
Rocket!!! Get him and stu back on a trip asap!!!!
I have currently have a AWD territory so it an auto as they didn't have manual option. As an urban vehicle it goes almost anywhere if you are careful. I have owned manual HJ60, HJ45 troopy and 1945 jeep with (yes a real one) Holden grey motor and a Holden Jackeroo. They were all manuals and except for the jeep, all diesel and like Graham I really enjoyed driving them. Back in the 70's I lived in Port Hedland and travelled 100's of thousands of ks on dirt roads, tracks and beaches. I can say that for the most part an auto would be my pick if for nothing else the lower fatigue levels. But I wouldn't knock back a good deal with a manual either. I think the bigger question would be, what's your 4x4 skill level and work with that because in the end that is going to be the failing point.
I think there is something to be said on the ZF8 auto box. Seeing Mac's 79 do it all and then some proves not all auto's are equal
I used to prefer manual but I'm old now, and we have duel clutch autos now, which I like offroad
I like changing gear when driving a sportscar. When driving a 4x4 not so much.
Plus driving a manual helps you stay awake and if you're awake that means you are a better driver the car keeps you awake and alert in the automatic car you can dove off and fall asleep so please keep making manual cars we need them!!!
now on beer three, at least the show started before before beer four , this should be a good topic
Manual is definitely preferred for me. You guys are lucky, there are barely any new manual 4WDs here in the states. Autos have come a long way, especially in shift points and the speed of the shifts.
Automatic all the way !! Better for any situations!!! Big love from Trinidad and Tobago 🇹🇹
Every auto I've ever driven has the ability to manually select a gear so you can easily utilize engine braking.... I do it all the time in my current vehicle, which is an auto. Also, with most auto's, you have the ability to start going from 0mph in second or third gear, not that its that useful but it is possible.
Gearing is key. If I have to choose from a 6spd manual with two ODs and tall diff ratios, or a 6spd auto with two ODs and tall diff ratios. I'll take the auto. But if the vehicle is geared for purpose (towing/4WDing) rather than an arbitrary lab fuel consumption test, I'd choose manual all day long. Really hard to find now though, unless you go older.
Manual gear, as long as I have my left foot.
I'm a truckie and prefer a stick shift and my 4wd is a stick .... but in saying that I wouldn't say no to a auto dmax for easy driving 😂
Always owned a manual and just enjoy driving them a lot more. Sad that they’re slowly becoming nonexistent
I’m pretty sure i got one of the absolute last manual LSU Dmax’s in Aus (MY22) and i’m super happy i got in before they disappeared.
I bought a 2020 lsu dmax manual they tried so hard to talk me out of it but I was only buying a manual
Good to see the sassed luxy back!
Auto absolutely, more controlable and just a better drive, less stress on you and no need to have a larger left calf muscle! I have done a few hundres thousand miles (I used to drive about 250,000 annually on average) in manuals and I bought an auto for the daily driver and off roader, I'm converting Defenders to auto now as one of the things I do. There are benefits on electronic boxes and advantages of the good old fashioned oil pressure driven auto's, I have a ZF 4HP22 in the Defender, the same as the old D1 I did about 170,000 miles in. still perfect. so why go back. The usual fail points can easily be overcome with a few simple things like a gaurd over the oil cooler and keeping things clean.
Hey Jocko, When are you going to make some much needed upgrades to the zook. That little beast can do much more with some much needed mods, like mudterrains, and a lift kit
I love changing gears in a manual but in heavy traffic ill take the auto thanks
Manual is best for long trips ,bush . Awake longer but u are thinking on driving longer.
Automatic I find it makes me sleepy easy
I own a 2005 Nissan Pathfinder with a sub-sequential gear box and I get the best of both worlds going down hill I can chuck it in first and let the engine slowly drive down and it saves my brakes a lot. But I would much rather drive a manual because of the control over the gears
There's no argument here, it is what it is. Dennis Denuto summed it up perfectly, "it's the vibe"
A good manual and an experienced driver! 100 to 1 or better crawl ratio. I swapped a tremec 4050 5 sp manual into my 13 jeep Rubicon on 37"s. The oem 6 sp manual was weak, good, not great 1st gear ratio.
good seeing rocket again!
Auto is so much better than it used to be.
Imagine...coming down King Billy and the manual hilux keeps popping out of 1st. Had to drive with one hand on the wheel so the other could hold the gear stick forward.
And...broken toe. No worries in the auto - until I had to stop quickly (broken toe was actually on the right foot)
I'm not a fan of any of the electronics in modern 4x4s - engines, gear boxes, transmissions, transfer cases, diffs and all the sensors - but it's either suck it up or stay in the '80's
For something remote and forever lasting -- auto as well. Come on guys, how can Shauno be saying "manual" when you had a whole rescue mission for the camera-men Patrol with a died clutch?! And had to replace a clutch on the zook in the bush. That never happens to an auto. If you dislike electronics, welp there are 100% hydro-mechanical automatic gear boxes exist out there, like the Aisin A440 on the HJ61 Land Cruiser - no electronics, no clutch that can break and leave you stranded. And even more "modern" gear box like the A442 which has gotten electric solenoids and an ECU, guess what, if one solenoid is toast - you are gonna miss that one gear, that's all. I've had a 80s land cruiser were 2nd gear solenoid has died and we still finished the trip. Also SOME manuals are a LOT weaker by design, i'm talking about TLC105 gear box, the manual is so fragile, i've seen plenty of them break prematurely, in the bush. And push-starting a vehicle is a so-so argument, not every time you can do that, better keep a spare battery and a spare starter motor for longer trips. There are only 2 pros about manual -- if for some reason you enjoy working harder for less performance, and it's somewhat cheaper to buy and maintain. And maybe long steep downhill descent scenarios, manual is a tad better. That's about it, the rest are all negative. The control and safety an auto gives over technical wheeling and remote traveling(no clutch dying all of a sudden) is worth everything for me, all the extra money and even a swap if I happen to buy a manual car -- go ahead and swap it to auto, it's not that hard or expensive, i've done it all by myself. PS: overheating is easily countered by additional oil cooler. I have NEVER overheated my auto, over the years of hard wheeling. Install a temperature gauge with a sound alarm as well that will also help to feel safe.
They never mentioned the fact that you can also shift a gear in most newer autos Eg going down a hill down shift to 1st or 2nd & it will also engine break
I have both, when the auto gets boring switch to the manual 😊
I personally haven’t driven an automatic 4WD I’ve only had 2 manual 4WD’s and like a manual so you can let motor take you down hills at it’s own pace instead of flooring it down and doing damage or come across sudden dips or bog holes but I would like to have a drive in an automatic to see the difference but with someone that owns one to show you the ropes
Driven both over the years still prefer manuals...
Manuals are great fun & better on descents, but a good auto (and I emphasise the GOOD part) is superior in every way. It's a myth that manuals are more bush proof. Maybe back on the 80s, but these days the chances of your auto trans or starter failing on you (again, provided you didn't buy trash) is slim to none unless you are a muppet or very unlucky. Clutch failure on the other hand is extremely common, and then you are just as rooted.
Good to see Rocket !!!
Have drivin a 1986 Nissan D21 4x4 Navara (aka Hardbody ) that had a 5 speed manual that was bombproof loved the lil bugger of a pickup ( Ute) over here in the USA when I was growing up up sadly I had to give her up due to lack of parts that were getting harder and harder to find over here which leads to my replacement a 2005 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD that has an Allison automatic engineered for heavy towing and when wheeling is a bit scary since the massive 6.6L Duramax diesel pumps out sooo much power and torque that it has enough power to to destroy its drivetrain lol compared to my old D21 that would trip over itself and stall without breaking nothing but if I have to choose between the two I would opt for my 2005 Chevy Duramax for the adventure in the wilderness of the USA
Please don't let this be the only appearance of Rocket Rod in the show, we want to see him back on the road.🤙
Here in the u s the manual transmission is pretty much gone. Years ago there was a thing called cash for Is conquers. Which means that if you brought your old beat up piece of crap vehicle they would give you top dollar for. In scrap value. So
A lot of the older vehicles went by by then.
Yeah, in Australia they still sell heaps of manuals, but in the U.S. it’s hard to find one. Not sure even fleet vehicles use them anymore as a lot of people can’t drive stick.
Manual car improves your driving skills day by day, Automatic transmission reduces your driving skills, and Automatic transmissions are more complicated, more complicated = more problems
Purchased a vehicle with a gearbox and transfer rebuilt by 360 Gearbox and Diff., cost the previous owner around $6K, and another $2K to have it fitted professionally to make sure all the warranty conditions were met. Had 12 month/ 25000 k warranty. When i purchased the vehicle, gearbox was out of the 12 month period but had only traveled a few thousand Klm since it was installed. Reported a problem with the box at 23000 klm issue selecting 3rd gear and a noise in fifth, 360 would not honor the warranty despite consumer law. Rather they tried to duck out of any workmanship or responsibility, blaming everything from "clutch drag" the the vehicle having been driven off road. At 25000 klm the gearbox failed in 5th gear. On strip down found the end float tolerances were way out and the Nut holding the 5th and reverse gear onto the layshaft had spun undone . Nut had not been staked. On top of that found the wrong syncro ring had been used in 3rd gear. Clearly poor workmanship. Yes, mistakes happen. But you would hope that a reputable company would stand behind its product. In my years I have built many toyota, Nissan and rover boxes, and would not consider its reasonable to expect that a reco gearbox would fail within 25,000klm. Buyer beware.
Have a 12mth old stock standard Paj Sport Exceed I don't do hard off road, I've towed a 1.7t van I get excellent fuel economy tackles sand well. Seems to handle a bit of 4x4 fine. These don't seem to be on many peoples lists for off road not sure why as not a hard core off roader happy to be educated.
I preferred manuals for years, but then got sick of replacing clutches. Iv'e never had to replace a starter. These days I prefer an auto with manual lockup, a good valve body and cooler, but I always drive them manually, so effectively it's a clutch less manual. Also I've always believed that auto's were stronger (planetary over helical gears) and kinder to the driveline.
Nice bike there Jesse!
Sooo good ladz and lass’s. Thank you 🙏
Both have positives and negatives but honestly off road auto all-day. In the sand its day and night your flogging your Manual most the time just to get on top and not bog down auto doesn't even struggle
The only reason I go manual is that if your battery dies while you're out camping, you've got the option of push starting.
You're screwed in an auto until someone saves you
When is Rocket back for another trip??
Manual for sure is best and most fun.
Automatics will give more control in 90% of 4wding. In saying this, some automatics have a mind of their own and can make it more difficult if they do not switch gear at the right time. But even after fitting extra gearbox coolers/radiators with fans, when the going gets really tough on step hills or soft sand or especially when towing through sand. The automatics will still overhead.
I will never drive another manual again , but in my experience they are better offroad . More freedom with the clutch to disengage . There’s times in my auto I get stuck on a hill and the trans is loaded up with torque and it makes a BAD sounds when going from drive to neutral or reverse ! And on sand climbs if you get stuck suddenly it will stall engine