I love Miller's commentary during golf matches....it's funny. But you have it dead on, on this one. Allenby's swing is a little different, but not for the reasons Miller said. As a student of Hogan's swing I have noticed what you have. He swings through left and bows his wrist which keeps that club square to the target line for a long time. I think it was the key to his shot making ability and consistency. Good job letting Miller have it!
Thanks Wayne, I enjoyed this. Very good ball striker. I watch him at the Aus Open each year when he comes home and the thing that impresses me most, as well as his driver ball flight, is the flight he gets on a little 5 wood he has. It goes on the same low/strong trajectory as his driver. It reminds me of a Hogan story passed down the line in which it is said that all his shots, no matter the club, fell out of the air at the same height. You won't see this if you sling it down the line.
I like this video of yours, Wayne. I'm a plus 1 and my instructor is having me work on moving the club more "around and left" after impact using my core to square the face than down the line and using my hands to square it. I've seen almost immediate results in my ball flight. Far fewer snap hooks and blocks to the right. And good call on Miller.
I agree with Miller. The follow through does look a little awkward and if Miller took the time to analyze it the way Wayne does then he could no doubt diagnose what the real problem is. As I see it, the left leg "collapsing" is what makes the swing look "funny". Most great ball strikers are bracing against the left leg.
I like you Wayne. I think you're spot-on about Johnny. He's a "legend in his own mind." He's just flat-out annoying to listen to. I've always admired Allenby's technique, and his ability to cover the ball.
Yes. I agree. Johnny had his career moments. But, it's annoying that, when given the opportunity, he likes to toot his own horn. Jack, and other greats NEVER tooted. Sorry, legends don't toot. Do you think Hogan was a tooter? The great ones are humble.
Wayne, if you read some of these comments you'll understand why the average golf score is 92. People don't know their butts from a hole-in-the-ground and can be sold a bill of goods by the slickest-sounding salesman. Johnny knows that he is making up alot of what he says, and anyone who can half play the game (including most tour players) realize that he is doing exactly that with much of his commentary...your analysis is right-on and Johnny gave an off-the-cuff comment that lacked any study.
I coached Robert from 2007 to 2010 and I agree with what Wayne says, The amount of times the guys in the box made negative comments on Roberts putting drove me insane and also influenced rob. If they had taken the time to see he had more top 10 finishes than anyone else they would have seen that the issue was not technical rather mental. It is a case of the guys in the box influencing more than they should. Watch them play and shut the hell up. jamogolffun youtube Sandy Jamieson
Good post. I wish one of the guys would shut him up once in a while. You can tell most of his fellow broadcasters want to, but they never do. Some friendly banter would make for an interesting broadcasts. Anything would be better than listening to Johnny blabber non-stop for 4 hours.
Johny says many things that people like to hear, but unfortunately the vast majority of announcers have no idea what they are talking about regarding swing analysis. Really amazing to me. However, I guess winning an Open like that can get to your head after a few decades....
@HynoDesigns I would like only to offer a fact, if you really chase it down the line your arms will be cut off your body, given the fact that your body is built like a cylinder and your arms are not able while attached to chase it down the line very long
Well if you're looking at Lee Trevino then there is a look of "chasing" down the line because Lee is aiming "left" moves his back swing outside and then re routes on the downswing to the right. It does have the look in Lee's case of swinging down the line
Every swing is somewhat idiosyncratic. Allenby's down and then left swing ensures he'll rarely hook it and takes the left side out of play. Chasing it down the line is likely to get you underneath the plane at times and hitting blocks and hooks. Allenby also bows down his wrist and closes his face early so he can square it with rotation. A very effective method to hitting the ball pretty damn straight. If the guy could putt he'd have a bunch more wins.
Wayne, I think it's funny that Johnny says he has a "huge amount of lateral movement into it". It doesn't look like there is a whole lot of lateral movement there to me. Looks pretty average with all the great ball strikers.
My head and eyes are also (Like Duval, Allenby and Sorenstam) looking well in front of the ball at impact. Unlike Tiger, Lee Westwood, and many other players who are looking straight down at the ball or well behind it at impact. I will admit that although Hall of Famer Johnny Miller was one of the greats of his generation (25 Pga Tour wins, three 2nd place finishes at the Masters and two majors and then winning at the age of 46 at Pebble Beach) he does seem a bit full of himself. When he says things like "back in my day more players could play on Sunday" I'm not so sure I agree with him, considering the beautiful, seemingly perfect swings from today's amazing athlete golfers. I could watch Rory Mcillroy, Adam Scott, James Hahn, Louis Ouisthuizen, Si-woo-Kim and Adam Hadwin's swings all day long. It is amazing how long JM has lasted in this age of Political Correctness.
Good players rarely make good teachers. This is because they have become experts at swinging to the point where it is instinctive to them. Please name just one great swing coach of today who won 25 tournaments..or just 1. Good luck.
@hardyhardhor Nobody who has ever hit a ball straight has ever swung "down the line." That is a golf term used by people who don't know what the hell they are actually talking about. Johnny Miller himself, when he hit straight iron shots back in the 70s, never swung down the line (target line). He swung left of it, look at videos of him. What people don't understand is that Johnny Miller and almost all tv analysts just make things up in order to fill airtime. It's mostly a bunch of bs.
Hi Wayne... far as i'm concerned Johnny Miller was right on with this one. The guy can be a bit forward but his analysis of golf is without question the best there is.
Miller was a great player but great players do not great teachers make. Instead of simplifying the game he complicates it with his pro lingo like "chasing it down the line" or "hook put" , and every putt missed left is "pulled" and every putt right is "pushed" yet the sharpie line on the ball is rolling perfectly end over end indicating the putt was struck exactly where the player aimed it. The public needs announcers that are great teachers not great players necessarily.
First, sorry davidrives you were showing your wife Stuart Appleby and not Robert Allenby, this video was taken 7+ years ago as that was the range at Laurel Valley before the PA Classic event was canceled. Second, let's be smart about this people RA is 100% not collapsing through the ball, that is impossible to collapse when your arm+club are still straight two feet past the ball. What Miller is talking about is, similar to Dustin Johnson, an around finish for a tall guy, like he practiced with
Johnny is absolutely correct. Allenby's swing is how my swing used to be. The left arm crumples in the follow through. I fixed my swing & have trajectory control & extension after impact. There are things that other people know about the swing & golf that you do not. Allenby is limiting his abilitys with his swing flaw.
Johnny Miller is a putz, a major champion sure, but a putz nonetheless. Anyone that has ever encountered him can tell ya he is a bit of a strange guy. When he talks golf swing he is just, in my humble opinion, trying to relate his personal feel into words. Being a great player does not equate to being a great teacher, or even understanding the swing for that matter. Try to get a lesson from Fred Couples or Bubba Watson for that matter I doubt they could help the average golfer at all. I think part of what makes a champion is the absolute belief that what you are doing and thinking is immutably correct. It may be correct for them and not for the rest of us that weren't gifted by god with immense talent.
Funny about Mark Rolfing having a shrine to Johnny. Can't stand listening to his broadcasts. It almost makes it not worth watching the tournaments he's covering. I wish NBC would get rid of him.
and why are we meant to show someone as arrogant as Miller some respect?? He was a great player yes, but his knowledge about physics, the golf swing, empirical science etc is zero. I respect him as a player...not as an ignorant person on GC telling us things he's making up as he goes
Yea, Johnny was not that great in comparison to Watson, Palmer, Nicklaus, Norman, even Faldo. When these guys are on the air they don't talk about themselves or half as much as Johnny does.
focus on the substance of the advice. It's annoying because Miller should know better. Now that he's gone I kind of miss his commentary. There was no telling what he was going to come up with next.
@wdefrancesco Weather Allenby exits under the plane does not matter there are things that people know about the swing & golf that you do not. Just because Johnny does not fit into your way of thinking & you do not understand what he is talking about does not mean other people do not understand him.
Johnny Miller makes things up on the spot that are totally factually inaccurate all the time during telecasts in an effort to look smart. Including things he didn't do in his own swing when he played. If you don't know what actually happens in a golf swing you won't know that he's doing this and will just figure whatever he says is true because he used to be a good player. But to people who are legitimately knowledgeable it is obvious that Miller is completely full of shit almost all the time
I think players who become announcers are forced by their bosses to do "swing analysis" whenever the guy in the truck wants it. That's what those stupid earphones used to be for. Well, the old pro is going to try and keep that clown happy and they say whatever comes to mind right then and there. What I'd like to see is the "truck" come off of it's blocks and go rolling off into the sunset, down the hill and into a trash dump. Those guys have no clue as to what golf fans like or find interesting. Let the pro talk about what he wants to talk about. If he stinks then get somebody else. Trying to force people to be ignorant doesn't usually turn out well.
Commentators on TV, like Miller, pointing out "swing flaws" of golfers that made it to the PGA Tour is idiotic. Jim Furyk can shoot 58 on Tour and stay on Tour for over 20 years, but there will always be a Johny Miller type doofus on TV that knocks his swing.
Let it be annoying? The guy commentates most of the PGA events and he talks, nearly non-stop, for the entirety of the broadcasts. Believe him or not, we still have to listen to his whiny, annoying voice for hours on end if we want to watch a tournament.
@MrFitzwilly What are you talking about? Yes Miller was a very good player but he is an awful player and is a know it all. His swing theories often defy physics and logic. Please Miller is a clown.
I miss the entertainment. He would always come up with something nonsensical when the broadcast got boring. Then it would be fun contacting friends with "did you hear what Miller said?".
Oops, you changed the video that does not match Faxon and Miller's commentary. As for Faxon, he lasted on television as long as Eric Booker on tour. As for you, I stopped watching at 2:02. Comparing Faxon to MIller is like comparing Gary McCord to Ben Hogan.
Holmes: I expected such a pathetic response from you. Moriarty: Did you, and what did you expect? Holmes: The same. Moriarty: Pardon? Holmes: Yes, predictable are you, I no longer consider you. Moriarty: You narcissistic prig, how dare you diminish me so! Holmes: I not diminish you, you diminish you. Your comments demonstrate an air of predominance, yet you have no credentials. A forged resume, a blatant and ridiculous claim to insight. You are as bright as a worm, thrust from the earth, after a significant rain.
You obviously did not understand what Miller was saying. Faxon was correct and Miller was correct. There was no contradiction. Allenby does come up quickly after the shot just as Miller pointed out.
Does this guy think he could beat Allenby or what? People are so arrogant and ignorant. I prefer a person who, in learning a little, realizes that there is so much more they do not understand. Read The Golfing Machine by Homer Kelley. There are over a billion different variations that make the ball go straight. To prescribe to just one ideology is very limiting and harmful to the average golfer.
Nice try defrancesco, Miller holds records your jealousy only magnifies. Now as far as that swing of Allenby with the buckling knees and spun out shoulders, and on top of that, the results was that the ball went into the crowd on the right so you may want to take a step back on the great ball striker term, as it does not fit and he is still looking for his ball in the crowd.
I love Miller's commentary during golf matches....it's funny. But you have it dead on, on this one. Allenby's swing is a little different, but not for the reasons Miller said. As a student of Hogan's swing I have noticed what you have. He swings through left and bows his wrist which keeps that club square to the target line for a long time. I think it was the key to his shot making ability and consistency. Good job letting Miller have it!
Thanks Wayne, I enjoyed this. Very good ball striker. I watch him at the Aus Open each year when he comes home and the thing that impresses me most, as well as his driver ball flight, is the flight he gets on a little 5 wood he has. It goes on the same low/strong trajectory as his driver. It reminds me of a Hogan story passed down the line in which it is said that all his shots, no matter the club, fell out of the air at the same height. You won't see this if you sling it down the line.
I like this video of yours, Wayne. I'm a plus 1 and my instructor is having me work on moving the club more "around and left" after impact using my core to square the face than down the line and using my hands to square it. I've seen almost immediate results in my ball flight. Far fewer snap hooks and blocks to the right. And good call on Miller.
I agree with Miller. The follow through does look a little awkward and if Miller took the time to analyze it the way Wayne does then he could no doubt diagnose what the real problem is. As I see it, the left leg "collapsing" is what makes the swing look "funny". Most great ball strikers are bracing against the left leg.
I like you Wayne. I think you're spot-on about Johnny. He's a "legend in his own mind." He's just flat-out annoying to listen to. I've always admired Allenby's technique, and his ability to cover the ball.
Yes. I agree. Johnny had his career moments. But, it's annoying that, when given the opportunity, he likes to toot his own horn. Jack, and other greats NEVER tooted. Sorry, legends don't toot. Do you think Hogan was a tooter? The great ones are humble.
Wayne, if you read some of these comments you'll understand why the average golf score is 92. People don't know their butts from a hole-in-the-ground and can be sold a bill of goods by the slickest-sounding salesman. Johnny knows that he is making up alot of what he says, and anyone who can half play the game (including most tour players) realize that he is doing exactly that with much of his commentary...your analysis is right-on and Johnny gave an off-the-cuff comment that lacked any study.
great analysis sir
I coached Robert from 2007 to 2010 and I agree with what Wayne says, The amount of times the guys in the box made negative comments on Roberts putting drove me insane and also influenced rob. If they had taken the time to see he had more top 10 finishes than anyone else they would have seen that the issue was not technical rather mental. It is a case of the guys in the box influencing more than they should. Watch them play and shut the hell up. jamogolffun youtube
Sandy Jamieson
Good post. I wish one of the guys would shut him up once in a while. You can tell most of his fellow broadcasters want to, but they never do. Some friendly banter would make for an interesting broadcasts. Anything would be better than listening to Johnny blabber non-stop for 4 hours.
Johny says many things that people like to hear, but unfortunately the vast majority of announcers have no idea what they are talking about regarding swing analysis. Really amazing to me. However, I guess winning an Open like that can get to your head after a few decades....
Wayne, can you do an analysis of Duval?
@HynoDesigns I would like only to offer a fact, if you really chase it down the line your arms will be cut off your body, given the fact that your body is built like a cylinder and your arms are not able while attached to chase it down the line very long
I think Johnny was talking about allenby looking like he is hanging back(his left knee being so bent after the strike
Jhonny Miller reminds of Maradona: not because they were great players means they know the technicality of the game.
Well if you're looking at Lee Trevino then there is a look of "chasing" down the line because Lee is aiming "left" moves his back swing outside and then re routes on the downswing to the right. It does have the look in Lee's case of swinging down the line
Every swing is somewhat idiosyncratic. Allenby's down and then left swing ensures he'll rarely hook it and takes the left side out of play. Chasing it down the line is likely to get you underneath the plane at times and hitting blocks and hooks. Allenby also bows down his wrist and closes his face early so he can square it with rotation. A very effective method to hitting the ball pretty damn straight. If the guy could putt he'd have a bunch more wins.
Allenby has a great swing. Tried and tested. Miller should by a place in hawaii and sip on drinks..HASBEEN
you are funny! keep 'em comin'!
A shrine to Miller in his basement? Hahaha
Wayne, I think it's funny that Johnny says he has a "huge amount of lateral movement into it". It doesn't look like there is a whole lot of lateral movement there to me. Looks pretty average with all the great ball strikers.
My head and eyes are also (Like Duval, Allenby and Sorenstam) looking well in front of the ball at impact. Unlike Tiger, Lee Westwood, and many other players who are looking straight down at the ball or well behind it at impact. I will admit that although Hall of Famer Johnny Miller was one of the greats of his generation (25 Pga Tour wins, three 2nd place finishes at the Masters and two majors and then winning at the age of 46 at Pebble Beach) he does seem a bit full of himself. When he says things like "back in my day more players could play on Sunday" I'm not so sure I agree with him, considering the beautiful, seemingly perfect swings from today's amazing athlete golfers. I could watch Rory Mcillroy, Adam Scott, James Hahn, Louis Ouisthuizen, Si-woo-Kim and Adam Hadwin's swings all day long. It is amazing how long JM has lasted in this age of Political Correctness.
Good players rarely make good teachers. This is because they have become experts at swinging to the point where it is instinctive to them. Please name just one great swing coach of today who won 25 tournaments..or just 1. Good luck.
It just might be the other way around mazda. Just because you don't agree with Wayne doesn't make you right, does it??
@hardyhardhor Nobody who has ever hit a ball straight has ever swung "down the line." That is a golf term used by people who don't know what the hell they are actually talking about. Johnny Miller himself, when he hit straight iron shots back in the 70s, never swung down the line (target line). He swung left of it, look at videos of him.
What people don't understand is that Johnny Miller and almost all tv analysts just make things up in order to fill airtime. It's mostly a bunch of bs.
Sorenstam...the greatest female golfer of all time didn't "have her left eye on the ball at impact". Lots of slow motion video to watch...
Close your eyes and you'll find out...
wayne you are so right. Miller is a complete clown. He thinks he knows it all and states things has fact that are not even close.
Hi Wayne... far as i'm concerned Johnny Miller was right on with this one. The guy can be a bit forward but his analysis of golf is without question the best there is.
@MrFitzwilly Cant be too bad, hes won 19 million in 10 years. And i doubt this guy is jealous, anyway thats a very immature comment, are you 12?
@hardyhardhor I hope you're kidding and trying to be tremendously ironic with this latest comment. Because if you aren't then I weep for humanity.
Miller was a great player but great players do not great teachers make. Instead of simplifying the game he complicates it with his pro lingo like "chasing it down the line" or "hook put" , and every putt missed left is "pulled" and every putt right is "pushed" yet the sharpie line on the ball is rolling perfectly end over end indicating the putt was struck exactly where the player aimed it. The public needs announcers that are great teachers not great players necessarily.
@MrFitzwilly What are you talking about? Miller says things that defies logic and physics. He states things has facts that are complete BS.
First, sorry davidrives you were showing your wife Stuart Appleby and not Robert Allenby, this video was taken 7+ years ago as that was the range at Laurel Valley before the PA Classic event was canceled. Second, let's be smart about this people RA is 100% not collapsing through the ball, that is impossible to collapse when your arm+club are still straight two feet past the ball. What Miller is talking about is, similar to Dustin Johnson, an around finish for a tall guy, like he practiced with
Johnny is absolutely correct. Allenby's swing is how my swing used to be. The left arm crumples in the follow through. I fixed my swing & have trajectory control & extension after impact. There are things that other people know about the swing & golf that you do not. Allenby is limiting his abilitys with his swing flaw.
Johnny Miller is a putz, a major champion sure, but a putz nonetheless. Anyone that has ever encountered him can tell ya he is a bit of a strange guy. When he talks golf swing he is just, in my humble opinion, trying to relate his personal feel into words. Being a great player does not equate to being a great teacher, or even understanding the swing for that matter. Try to get a lesson from Fred Couples or Bubba Watson for that matter I doubt they could help the average golfer at all. I think part of what makes a champion is the absolute belief that what you are doing and thinking is immutably correct. It may be correct for them and not for the rest of us that weren't gifted by god with immense talent.
Allenby was worldno 1 ball stricke in his prime lot of people don’t know that
I hear you Wayne, kind of like a person calling himself a pro who uses GI oversize irons. Doesn't that just make you want to puke?
Funny about Mark Rolfing having a shrine to Johnny. Can't stand listening to his broadcasts. It almost makes it not worth watching the tournaments he's covering. I wish NBC would get rid of him.
and why are we meant to show someone as arrogant as Miller some respect?? He was a great player yes, but his knowledge about physics, the golf swing, empirical science etc is zero. I respect him as a player...not as an ignorant person on GC telling us things he's making up as he goes
Yea, Johnny was not that great in comparison to Watson, Palmer, Nicklaus, Norman, even Faldo. When these guys are on the air they don't talk about themselves or half as much as Johnny does.
Idiot! The best ball striker of he’s era
Are you 14?
Yes what's Miller know? He only shot a 63 in the final round of the us open when he won
focus on the substance of the advice. It's annoying because Miller should know better. Now that he's gone I kind of miss his commentary. There was no telling what he was going to come up with next.
@wdefrancesco Weather Allenby exits under the plane does not matter there are things that people know about the swing & golf that you do not. Just because Johnny does not fit into your way of thinking & you do not understand what he is talking about does not mean other people do not understand him.
Well, I respectfully disagree.
@wdefrancesco wouldn't you have to be higher up on the money list also? lol
I understand what Johnny Miller is trying to say its Wayne that seems to have a problem with what Johnny Miller is trying to say.
Johnny Miller makes things up on the spot that are totally factually inaccurate all the time during telecasts in an effort to look smart. Including things he didn't do in his own swing when he played. If you don't know what actually happens in a golf swing you won't know that he's doing this and will just figure whatever he says is true because he used to be a good player. But to people who are legitimately knowledgeable it is obvious that Miller is completely full of shit almost all the time
I think players who become announcers are forced by their bosses to do "swing analysis" whenever the guy in the truck wants it. That's what those stupid earphones used to be for. Well, the old pro is going to try and keep that clown happy and they say whatever comes to mind right then and there. What I'd like to see is the "truck" come off of it's blocks and go rolling off into the sunset, down the hill and into a trash dump. Those guys have no clue as to what golf fans like or find interesting. Let the pro talk about what he wants to talk about. If he stinks then get somebody else. Trying to force people to be ignorant doesn't usually turn out well.
Commentators on TV, like Miller, pointing out "swing flaws" of golfers that made it to the PGA Tour is idiotic. Jim Furyk can shoot 58 on Tour and stay on Tour for over 20 years, but there will always be a Johny Miller type doofus on TV that knocks his swing.
Miller defies all logic and Physics. He is a complete jerk.
Let it be annoying? The guy commentates most of the PGA events and he talks, nearly non-stop, for the entirety of the broadcasts. Believe him or not, we still have to listen to his whiny, annoying voice for hours on end if we want to watch a tournament.
i think Miller jynxed Alleby XD
@MrFitzwilly What are you talking about? Yes Miller was a very good player but he is an awful player and is a know it all. His swing theories often defy physics and logic. Please Miller is a clown.
Miller was a good player in his time but a buffoon when it comes to the swing. I don't miss his ridiculous input at all.
I miss the entertainment. He would always come up with something nonsensical when the broadcast got boring. Then it would be fun contacting friends with "did you hear what Miller said?".
Oops, you changed the video that does not match Faxon and Miller's commentary.
As for Faxon, he lasted on television as long as Eric Booker on tour. As for you, I stopped watching at 2:02. Comparing Faxon to MIller is like comparing Gary McCord to Ben Hogan.
Holmes: I expected such a pathetic response from you.
Moriarty: Did you, and what did you expect?
Holmes: The same.
Moriarty: Pardon?
Holmes: Yes, predictable are you, I no longer consider you.
Moriarty: You narcissistic prig, how dare you diminish me so!
Holmes: I not diminish you, you diminish you. Your comments demonstrate an air of predominance, yet you have no credentials. A forged resume, a blatant and ridiculous claim to insight. You are as bright as a worm, thrust from the earth, after a significant rain.
Maybe NBC will hire you to commentary..........Wayne.
Sorry, even NBC has standards. "Wayne" has as much credentials as Miley Cyrus at the United Nations.
Nice try Johnny! We know it is you!
You obviously did not understand what Miller was saying. Faxon was correct and Miller was correct. There was no contradiction. Allenby does come up quickly after the shot just as Miller pointed out.
Does this guy think he could beat Allenby or what? People are so arrogant and ignorant. I prefer a person who, in learning a little, realizes that there is so much more they do not understand. Read The Golfing Machine by Homer Kelley. There are over a billion different variations that make the ball go straight. To prescribe to just one ideology is very limiting and harmful to the average golfer.
Nice try defrancesco, Miller holds records your jealousy only magnifies. Now as far as that swing of Allenby with the buckling knees and spun out shoulders, and on top of that, the results was that the ball went into the crowd on the right so you may want to take a step back on the great ball striker term, as it does not fit and he is still looking for his ball in the crowd.