Prusa XL vs. ASA - Update
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- Опубликовано: 30 июн 2024
- I've spent some time printing ASA on the Prusa XL and I think I have everything dialed in. I'm getting good consistent results so I thought I'd share my experience with everyone.
Prusa XL - www.prusa3d.com/product/origi...
Polymaker ASA - amzn.to/42snaE7
My Favorite Tools - www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls...
Prusa XL Playlist - • Prusa XL
Here's the ending g-code I'm using:
; Filament-specific end gcode
G28 X0 Y0
M104 S0 ; turn off extruder
M84 ; disable motors...
M190 S90 ; Wait for bed to reach 90
G4 S600 ; Dwell for 10min
M190 S80 ; Wait for bed to reach 80
G4 S600 ; Dwell for 10min
M190 S70 ; Wait for bed to reach 70
G4 S600 ; Dwell for 10min
M190 S60 ; Wait for bed to reach 60
G4 S600 ; Dwell for 10min
M140 S0 ; turn off bed
00:00 Intro
00:38 Temperature is critical
02:18 The test parts
03:25 Surface finish
04:17 Cool custom g-code
05:06 Adding custom g-code
07:19 Conclusion 
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Really great/useful video. You are slinging stuff into the cosmos that actually helps folks. I follow alot of RUclips channels that I enjoy but few actually offer truly practical tips and you seem to deal them like a card, drug, or wheeler dealer.
Ha, thanks. I hate how that's actually a trend now... Too much focus is on the sponsorship statements, rather than just providing useful information.
so i added you to my to go channels for 3D printing when i have troubles with my printers. I love these videos very informative and very clear . So when ,y xl with 5 tools arrive i now i have someone to get help . you deserve🤗 more subscribers for your channel
Awesome, thank you!
Thanks for showing your results. I have not tried ASA yet, but have done a few ABS and tried the same cool down as you, but did it in the end print gcode. I have had pretty good results with the SUMO enclosure. It keep the internal temp at 100 F. The cool down helped a lot, still had some minor warping, but was a very large part.
Nice, good to know.
Great video!
Temperature is the major issue and the reason I cancelled my XL order.
Enclosures are in my view, necessary to print these materials. Yes, you can get away with a tent or similar partial enclosure, but as you experienced you are really fighting the ambient temp.
For ABS/ASA it doesn't seem worth attempting to print if your chamber temp is not at minimum 40c.
On a multi thousand dollar machine Prusa still has no official enclosure solution. This is unacceptable in my view.
Nevermind the actual VOC's that ABS and ASA release. You cannot effectively filter or extract them without a proper enclosure.
There is an enclosure on AliX
Very useful and clear video (well except for the super high resolution in the Prusa Slicer part, which made things illegible at 1080p, but you did explain everything that was on screen so no big deal really), this will smoothen the path for me moving towards ASA printing :) Thank you for adding temperatures in C as well as F too.
RUclips seems to default to lower resolutions, but clicking settings and adjusting made it viewable for me at 1080.
I'll have to remember that. I use an fairly high resolution ultrawide, so recording the screen is always a bit of a trick.
@@RobertCowanDIY I should clarify; by "things" I mean the text was just a bit blurry.
@@CharlesLogstonInTexas Yeah, I was watching at 1080p but you're not wrong either.
@@TNX255Noted, at full resolution it looks fine to me, but I'll watch out for that next time. It's probably best to watch full screen though.
I wanna see the organizerrrrrr!! Haha. Nice tips.
I should post an update on instagram.
I use a lot of ASA because of the temperatures and in my case UV Stable, it is the most stable for outdoor use of all print materials that are readily available. On Prusa's material guide, it is the only material listed for ultra violet. I use ASA-Carbon 15% for some parts with a Prusa MK3 in an enclosure at 50C. Works really well. Thanks for the tip on part cooling, that is a big deal. A material I am just trying out is Polypropylene-Carbon, very good high temperature properties and no enclosure needed, very low CTE (coefficient of thermal expansion), should be a very stable material. I have also found ASA needs to be kept dry or it starts messing up, it absorbs moisture quickly.
Thank you so much for sharing this video. I've been struggling with ASA on my Bambu X1C, especially for a model that printed well with PETG. Unfortunately, I've encountered significant warping issues with ASA, particularly on a crucial part of my project. Even preheating the X1C caused the ASA to stick to the build plate, but then the plate started to bend.
Knowing that slowing down the cooling process was key to your success gives me hope. Although I'm not great at coding, I'll give it a shot. Thanks again for the insight. 🙏
for sure! slowing it down and adding the gcode at the end should help out a lot.
Really great stuff Robert!. Some questions,
How do you like the new head additions? Worth the cost?
Have you looked into the new XL enclosure? Looks kinda expensive to me.
What size nozzle are you using?
Can you point me to the flow setting in the slicer??
if you pop something and it starts to warp quickly put it back on the bed and every time its flattened for me. Could also slightly warm it with a torch on a flat surface, can help save a part.
I got my XL today. After quite some calibration and stuff it is printing the first thing. A gridfinity baseplate. yay. The printer is louder than expected. But this is not an issue in my case. I don't have my printers in my bedroom nor do I sleep in my office.
Yeah, it's a bit loud, but it's WAY too big to be on a desk in an office, so I'm fine with it.
I love the shop updates, but I have to ask. Whats the current status on Drain Bamage? Can't wait to see that bot in the arena
Yeah, me too! I'll be working in it here soon (hopefully). I just need to find a competition to enter it into.
I'm about to embark on this project (thank's so much for sharing your design so generously!) I print in an unfinished area of the basement that I can close off from the rest of the house. I plan to use the shower curtain trick and crack a window nearby for room ventilation. But wondering if I should prioritize one of the available enclosure designs before tackling this project.
For the filament drawers I'm planning to prepare 6 units and arrange them 2 wide by 3 high mounted on a furniture dolly. (All my 3D printers are on wheels so I can rearrange things in my tight working space.) I'd like to have a plywood top for an extra work surface and wondering about supporting it. I could enclose the drawer units sides and back in plywood as well to support the weight and thought if printing a extra frame piece installed mid-way in each drawer unit would be enough. Any thoughts?
The frames really aren't meant to be load bearing beyond just the filament. I'd suspect it wouldn't be terribly sturdy. It won't collapse, but it will be 'bouncy'. BUT, you can just put some wood supports on the outside of the structure and use that to support the top. Since you have mounting holes on all surfaces, just do vertical supports on the outside to stiffen it up.
I've had those top layer defects with ASA. I haven't found a great solution. I'll try slowing down.
Thanks for the tip.
Yeah, maybe try turning down the flow rate a bit and making absolutely sure you have high enough ambient temperature?
I'm curious why you need to use ASA for this? Cool video; I've been wondering about ASA, but not 100% sure I need the extra it offers over PLA at the moment.
Check out this video, I explain why I'm using ASA: ruclips.net/video/goR6Kbjiih8/видео.html
cura has a very good function for asa
wind protection
it makes an adjustable wall around the model
I already use it for all my prints
This makes it very easy to prevent ventilation at the corners
and the layer adhesion problem is improved
Don't forget to turn off the fan completely
I could do something like this, but I have around 30 of these to make and that would use quite a bit more material (and printing time).
I guess it begs the question, I assume that the Prusa has good main board and power supply cooling? I was thinking about attempting some "warmer" environments for my BL A1, I understand however that the chipset and the power supply both do not have cooling fans, not even a heat sink. I use a 4x4 closet for my printers on a bench, the temps get to 28-30 C with the door closed. I can monitor temp and video remotely. For warmer temps I can place a very small heater in there but don't want to induce heat issues on the main board.
I appreciate your video, I think I will try some ASA and see if my setup is good enough as it is without extra heat and go from there.
100F ambient is totally fine for the electronics.
Hola, realmente me gustan tus videos, gracias...
Printed some full plates of small stuff on the XL. Used all three different plates as I had not done it before. Pla+ nothing fancy. There was a big difference when removing the pieces from the plate. The rough texture basically released everything when it was cold. Just wipe it clean of pieces. The almost smooth one was similar but held slightly stronger when cold. Now the peimsheet plate... it didn't release anything unless I warped the plate. Everything held on to its life.
Haven't noticed this difference has been discussed too much. Textured surface releasing when cold may be good when everything works fine but peimsheet holding on may help when printer cools down in the middle of the print. Anyway, it may be a good idea for video to see if there is difference and how big it is. Same piece on the plate. Apply force until it poppes off Vs same piece on cold plate. Same with other plates. Should be easy to do with a scale.
Yeah, that's why I'm using the satin plate for these parts. I love the textured plate, but it doesn't hold as well, like you said.
Robert, thank you for the great content on the XL. I am looking to buy my first 3d printer for prototyping and possibly short runs in my machine shop, similar stuff to clough42. I am torn between the XL and X1C. I don’t mind spending extra for XL as long as it’s worth it but I do see a lot of people having issues. If you had to purchase only 1 printer to start with would you go xl or x1c. Thanks
It's a good question, but they are two completely different machines! If you NEED the larger format, or you NEED to print multi-material (not just cosmetic stuff), then the XL is the one to go with. If you NEED an enclosed printer or faster parts, get the X1C.
@@RobertCowanDIY Thanks for your response Robet. Got my XL up and running and could not be happier. I am going to do the sumo enclosure, I am currently printing it now. I Really appreciate the good XL content and am grateful for the files on this. I will also make these drawers with your designs. You and Clough42 seem to be my favorite channels recently. I should have gotten a 3d printer a long time ago.
@@VanoverMachineAndRepair Awww, thanks! I wish I had Clough's numbers! Did you see the official enclosure just got released?
@@RobertCowanDIY I did just as I got the parts for my sumo for their enclosure. O well such is life. Maybe on my second xl (2 toolhead) I’ll get the prusa enclosure. Really liking this printer. Thanks again
@@VanoverMachineAndRepair Wait, you like it?! The internet says it's terrible! Ha. Enjoy the printer! I like it too.
Easy mnemonic for those gcodes is "G means Go; M goes Machining"
exactly!
I've done that before... Pulling parts off the build plate before they are cooled. I learned not to do that immediately. (Kept warping my prints) They need time to cool off just like you say. I just need to be more patient.
Exactly, it's not really the printer's fault, it's just a nature of the material.
Hi Robert, thank you for take us through the journey of your large format multi-material printing. If you had a project which could take full advance of multi-material, which printer would you go to first? Would you possibly consider a video on this topic. Thank you for your consideration
I'm not sure what you mean? If I require multi-material, it needs to be the XL. The Bambu really only works with similar filaments. Sure, you can go between PETG or PLA, but I'm going to want to switch materials with drastically different properties, not just colors.
@@RobertCowanDIY sorry, I guess without actually owning both the XL and the Bambu with AMS I'm not understanding how they different. Both are capable for printing very drastically different materials at the same time. One is 5 extruders and one is just 1 extruder. Prusa slicer does warn the drastically different material bed temps when slicing. However, Bambu slicer does not seem to care if I slice a part with PLA, ASA, PETG all on the same part. Perhaps in practice that isn't possible with the current printer offerings.
@@webfiles4utube Check my video later today. In short, you're not supposed to use abrasives with the AMS, it doesn't work with TPU, and there's a LOT of extra waste and time in switching filament compared to the XL.
My MK3S’ flow is set to 95% by default under Tune -> Flow, and looking online this is apparently because Slic3r-derived slicers like PrusaSlicer tend to overextrude. Is there a change with the XL/MK4 that turns that back to 100% perhaps? Do you need to reduce flow only for ASA, or for other filaments as well?
Every type of filament requires its own flow calibration. In orca there's a tab to run the tests to figure out the best results. PLA and ASA for example have different shrinkage rates and even brand to brand can result in slight differences. My rule of thumb is when getting a new brand/type run a couple tests (temp/PA/Flow) and you should be good to go without any issues.
I have a question on bed temp, when you use the make shift enclosure do you heat the whole bed or use the default bed temp which I beleave only heats the print area?
The XL does zone heating, only heating the areas of the bed that are used for the print. This has worked out well so far. I should get a thermal camera to actually see this happening, but I can actually feel that certain areas of the bed are colder than others. It only seems hot/warm where it's printing.
Would be interesting to take the temp the other way. I've printed some thick wall, long PLA parts that always warped up at the ends. Maybe taking the part up above its glass transition temp while still stuck to a flat surface could relieve the internal stresses.
I had that too, but then I watched one of Slant 3D's videos where he showed a neat way to add thin round slabs that resemble Mickey Mouse ears to the corners (or anywhere you want) of such parts that act as brim but only where you want them to. They're also easier to remove afterwards instead of a full brim around the part. You can do that in CAD when designing the part or alternatively in PrusaSlicer as well.
Haha yeah, I actually "invented" that to fix my problem before I found out that was already a thing people did. It works and keeps the part from falling off the bed but there are still stresses in the part from the top layers shrinking after being stuck to already shrunken lower layers. @@TNX255
Potentially wonky suggestion I just thought of, but to get at least a somewhat serviceable temperature, I think some portable PTC space heaters can keep like 35 degrees Celsius, maybe even higher, and while that's not ideal temps, it could probably be enough for the XL especially since it has printed parts that might get soft with much hotter temps anyways.
Like perhaps just putting one with a decent thermostat under the table the XL is on, could keep that whole shower curtain area reasonably warm, while not wasting too much electricity given its such a small enclosed space and it would only be running to top off the temperature so to speak.
M190 SX is only for heating. Use M190 RX TX to cool the bed to a desired temperature over a period of time.
Gotcha.
Just in case you missed the email from Prusa , the upgrade to 5 tools is available now.
Yep, I already ordered mine last week. They announced it on their blog before the email went out ;-)
Also, ObXidian Prusa Nozzles are available directly from E3D and in stock. @@RobertCowanDIY
Could try making the sumo enclosure. Think its out?
I could certainly try that, but I don't print much that needs an enclosure (except for this project). I'm just holding out for the official enclosure since I've tried 'knock-off' enclosures before and have not had good experiences.
In my experience, those top layer defects are indicative of too much plastic in too little space. You said you turned down the flow in addition to the temperature change. Id be interested in seeing something printed in the better temperature with the original flow. I would expect it to look overextruded.
The flow was adjusted to fix the first layer. The top layer was fixed once I got the temperature under control. I suspect the part was slightly lifting, enough that it was interfering with the top layers.
@@RobertCowanDIY yeah thatll do it too, thats why I didnt call it overextrusion. Too much plastic in too little space can be caused by many things.
have you experimented with auto eject G code yet?
I'm not sure what you mean?
@@RobertCowanDIY G code that waits for the part to cool, then you use the tool head to push the part off the build plate so that it can restart automatically
@@theNitefly OH, I really haven't messed with that, I have no need for it.
I've got to ask the obvious question. Why haven't you enclosed your XL? I have always put an acrylic box around my printers.
It's a good question. I guess I'm still waiting for the official enclosure. I'm also going to move it around a bit, I ordered the extra 3 toolheads, so I'll add those when it arrives. It's still a work in progress for right now. If there isn't an enclosure option by summer, I'll make my own.
I look forward to the design you come up with @@RobertCowanDIY !
now you need to wait 20-30min after each ASA print...😯 if there is no other options, there is not other options!
This really has less to do with the XL and more with materials that are prone to warping. The same problem was happening on the X1C, it just cools down much slower so I don't need custom g-code. But removing a part while it's still hot and making it cool rapidly will cause warping, regardless of what printer is used.
After watching this I got hit with an ad about stubborn poop 😂
ha!
👍👍😎👍👍
I can see no sharp edges. :)
Xl is ringing?
There is a bit of slight ringing around the screw holes along the edges.
@@RobertCowanDIY
The XL always going to have that issue. Because the heavy head. That is why not worthy to even try to make the print faster by changing out stuf. The software trickery (input shaping) helped a little. But the heads should go through some wheight loose.
Isn't ASA obsolete?
It's relatively 'new', as it's an 'updated' version of ABS. It does what most other plastics can't.
You need ventilation if you are going to be running ASA, especially if you are using any amount of it. Take your health serious.
Lol do you even now how much VOC’s one printer emites while printing Abs/Asa? Its barely nothing. It’s way worse to just be stopped at traffic breathing exhaust fumes.
@nunovicente34 tell that to people that end up with styrene poisoning
Understood. This is not a living space and I have a HEPA air filter on the ceiling.
Living space or not, if it isn't well ventilated it is putting you and others at risk
ruclips.net/video/aLU0SzzSmOE/видео.htmlsi=YKc5TxT0-2Z8bwy1&t=1107
@@RobertCowanDIY