Dettori & Gosden | Where did it all go wrong?
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- Frankie Dettori and John Gosden have enjoyed plenty of success on the track over the years, and have celebrated 63 Group and Grade One winners together.
However, after a turbulent Royal Ascot, the pair agreed to take an 'amicable sabbatical' from their association - but where did it all go wrong?
Sean Boyce takes a look into the separation of one of racing's most famous partnerships...
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Frankie was never a friend to the each way and forecast punters over the years. The hands used to go down far too quickly once the number one spot was gone.
Cant argue with that. I hate jockeys who dont ride out their horses to the best position.
Yes agree on that one.. Best ever Jockey for ew was Richard Johnson who rode to the post every time.
Spot on
It always happens in life. Shocking ride on Stradivarius though
Dettori not putting the work in on the track, he needs to be riding most days not cherry picking the better meetings. Then taking the week before ascot off,to go to a wedding in Italy. I think the signs were there last year on champions day when gosden criticised the ride on palace pier, then dettori throwing his toys away when Dylan Browne macmonagle outrode him in the stayers race
It was great while it lasted and I'm so happy they were reunited after so long, they're both Legend's and even though it's the end I'm sure there will be a swansong sometime
Interesting that many are stating that Frankie is past it based on rides on EmilyUpJohn and a few at Royal Ascot.
These races were over a period of less than 2 weeks. Putting bad luck aside, it's hardly uncommon for sports men and women to have brief dips in form. Let's not forget that a mere 3 months ago he won the Dubai Turf + World Cup. 2 of the biggest flat races on the planet.
And those stating that he doesn't ride enough. According to the Racing Post he's ridden 954 times since Jan '18 in UK/IRE (4 seasons and a 2/5's i'd say). That's roughly 215 rides a year on average. 89 rides this year seems to suggest he is race riding at present as much as he has been over the past 5 years when he was clocking up numerous G1's.
The suggestion was not that he's lost the ability but that Frankie had been distracted with other things and not riding enough to keep him sharp (in Gosden's view). I believe this has been brewing since Palace Pier got beaten by Baeed though I don't see much wrong with the ride there. The other thing is that the Gosden's are going through change at the moment. PP is retired to stud, Enable long gone, Strad, Mishriff and Lord N are surely coming to the end of their careers are are now all vulnerable to younger rivals. Which leaves Inspiral as their best at the moment, then Emily Upj, but I'm not sure she is that great, yet. Outsode of those, their best colt is 116 rated Mostahdaf and then below him there's not a lot to look at. Add to all of this, that it was the Queen's platinum and John would have dearly wanted to give her a winner. The ride Frankie gave Saga was ridiculous.
Was it Frankie on Appleby's horse at Belmont last night got second ?
Emily Upjohn should have won the Oaks, doing handstands. That defeat, must have been very hard for Gosden to stomach. Dettori's ride on Stradivarius, wasn't great, but I don't think he would have won. He probably deserved a bollocking, but not in public 👎 Frankie is still a GREAT jock, but he's only had 89 rides, this season. It's hard to compete at the highest level, when you're just a part-timer, especially at his age
Stradivarius should have won this year's Gold Cup- it was a plain bad ride.
All this bollocks about horses should win this should win that. Total bollocks. If that was the case we would all be millionaires!!
@@Chief_Brody Strad wasn't beating Kyprios sadly, just another Moore masterclass. Delayed the challenge to ensure Frankie was beat, If he went earlier Kyprios would've won by further...
It's all about the team. Frankie thinks it's a show and he is the main attraction. I'm afraid racing is bigger than Frankie. People had came to see Stradivarius win the Gold Cup. He spoilt his chances and then blamed the Horse for getting old. Shame on him.
Cobblers
It was strad in the gold cup that broke the camels back . Gosden really wanted that 4th gold cup with strad
even the sharpest blade,over time,loses it's edge
The Oaks was a shocker , that's when Gosden got angry
100%
If she hadn’t slipped coming out the stalls it would of been a length job, not entirely Frankie’s fault that
@@teddyjones3652 yes looking back he had horrendous starts mostly ending up at the back of field.
As a punter and a long time racing fan under both codes , I don't have no bad thoughts. It was a run of bad luck.
He messed up on the gold cup but end of the day his trainer is a joke , over the years he always had a strong jockey the likes of Jimmy Fortune.
Frankie isn't as strong as he used to be.
But slating you're jockey in public is shocking, what about Inspiral he never had her ready with set backs missing the guineas does clevely park slate him in public as I bet they was pissed seeing her win so easy
Easy to criticise what you cannot do yourself
The oaks wasn’t frankies fault. Emily nearly fell over coming out of gates then had to go around everything to get a run. Did well under the circumstances.
Tuesday isn’t a bum horse, wasn’t even 3 and winning the oaks. They were both well clear
Nothing went wrong!! frankie has got older and hes just not as good as he once was its as simple as that! His hunger isnt there like it use to be. one of the best ever tho!
Frankie is still the best jockey in the world I hope he gets rides and beat his former trainer All the time
@@YosifGreenidge You're delusional, Frankie is like an apprentice again.
Every good things come to end. Frankie was so good for such a long time. As a gambler I will miss him because he doesn’t ride for the bookies.
Course he doesn't
he absolutely does
He will not ride his horse out for each way punters
Just learned that detorri is retiring at the end of 2023 flat season. I don't care what anyone else says, when this guy retires the hole he leaves in the racing world will never be filled. His talent in the saddle aswell as his ability to make millions of people who don't follow horseracing tune in to watch the sport of kings is immense. His charisma and sense of humour in front of the camera is unmatched. He will be sorely missed in the weighing room I'm sure. One thing is for sure,,,. There will never be another like Lan Franco Detorri. I wish him good luck in whatever path he goes down
Emily upjohn would have been enough but Gosden gave him a few chances ,Royal Ascotvwas the icing
Exactly how can you be forgiven after that ride!
Definitely Paul
He's made some shockers on Stradivarius
It's all on Gosden now. We'll see how it turns out.
Strad had a hard race at Ascot when Frankie eventually got him out and went for it the horse gave everything to get as close as he did.
Rubbish. He was way down the field and in a pocket again like last year and by the time he got him out it was too late. Against the instructions given to him by the trainer to have him handy up with the pace.
@@CARLIN4737 You just repeated what I said lol.
Is it “right” to say what you think? I suppose if you are the one with the position and money? Throwing position around it rather old.
Jonathan Leonard:
Gosden could have handled it a little better, a told Dettori in private what he really thought, I could understand a owner saying sorry in public but not a trainer.
The noisy music is far too loud, making the video unlistenable.
It’s like many things in life when your doing ok people want to be your friend then when your doing so great people put the put in, the press will not help things what thay don’t know thay will make up
Like him or hate him Frankie is one the best ever will definitely be missed in racing
Hysterical opening music choice
Put it like this who would you rather have Dettori or Rossa Ryan ?
Hollie Doyle
@@burningsagemanmusic7491 missing the point Dettori is still better than many jockeys who ride for tip stables.
"Our hero" 😂😂 I think Gosden is the business. So is Frankie. Their relationship is rock solid.
Frankie will survive, as did Stradivarius after the Ascot race. Who runs a top 8yo stallion who should be at stud to provide a host of new prospects NH or flat? It would've been awful if the horse had dropped dead. I remember when Coshockton collapsed in front of the stands in the Epsom Derby. I was there when Persian Punch died at Ascot. It is documented that Strad's owner wanted a sprinter, so hope he isn't responsible for Strad being flogged to death for his entertainment. I was not entertained, I was sick to my stomach.
Tina Silver:
Although I too believe that the horse should have been retired last year, he's still shown he's not lost a lot of his abilitie, and even Aiden O'Brien ran Yeats as a 8 year old when he won a record 4th Ascot Gold Cup, but it's always seems it's more about egos than the horse welfare, Stradivarius really has nothing more to prove just as did Enable but Gosden managed to persuade the the owners to keep her in training one more season.
I think the owner is largely the "culprit" when it comes to Stradivarius. I thought that was the case when they pointed him towards the Arc. It didn't seem like a decision that Gosden would have made, especially since Enable was still running at the time. However, I don't know that Stradivarius is considered a 'top stallion" prospect in this era, where it's mostly about producing classic winners and horses that can win early. At best, he might be a big fish in a shrinking pond, producing Cup and NH runners.
@@controlleddemolition9112 Definitely the owner having his say, but I just think some can be persuaded, especially if they don't feel the financial need to retire him,the first race Straddling won this year has probably already covered his training fees for the year, but he is quite a well bred sort and definitely has the potential to be a success national hunt stallion and even a flat race too, that's if he's sent the right quality of mares.
@@nightowl7459 I had an argument with you after he won at York an you said he shud be retired
@@robertdelacy3434 And I said not if he seems to enjoy it, you see, I can remember too.
he doesn't even ride through the week only weekends, it's a non story, but i suppose sky sports has agendas nowadays
There no agenda, The story is about the Gosden Dettori relationship that is now broken. You and your 2 thumbs up thick or something.
I think it goes back to Enable getting beaten in the Arc. It wasn't a disastrous ride, but it could have been better and she could have won. I think that gave Gosden pause for thought. I didn't think the Strad ride was that bad, but Emily Upjohn was a shocker, Frankie just sitting there while Ryan Moore was stealing the race. I wonder as well if it's really Thady who wants rid of Frankie, and the old man is just doing a bit of dirty wotk for him before he steps down.
If only Aidan would dump Ryan in the same fashion. European jockeys believe that the last jockey to go for the whip or the last horse off the bridle wins. That's BS. In a gunfight I want to be the first one to draw my gun.
They are ok with each other again and Franky is on Emily Upjohn in Irish oaks
Ryan Moore's number of bad rides on short favs dwarfs Frankie's by a mile. Just a few yrs back Ryan was on so many favs at Ascot and Dettori bossed him. Gosden's horses aren't as good this year and he can't take it. I'm guessing he will try to get Oisin when he returns
Partially agree, it's not that there were no good, not that Frankie rode bad.. it's the fact it was not meant to be, few things went wrong.
Frankie been on drugs. Oisin on drugs. Makes sense for Gosden to get him.
That stradivarius run was a shocker
And reach for the moon.. he wasn't there to win.. he went against the Stradivarius instructions..he was instructed to keep away from the rail but mid race he drop back on to the rail.
He would not have even got 3rd if he chose to break to the outside when he could have.
Also the fact that Dettori blamed the horse
Yes I get it, but that horse is 8 years old. Also I don’t agree w the jockey fetishes ppl have in the uk, you ppl do remember what racing is right? Dettori couldn’t have done more in that 2x 2 piling at the rail and he was almost always looking for right the break
@@albae6938 he missed the break on a horse that probably would’ve/could’ve won the race, and had a all round poor weekend, simple as
Fine margins at this elite level. Love Frankie and John, both are two of the greats. I hope we continue to see them running and riding great horses for years to come. Always sad to see a top class horse perhaps have a tougher ride than they should have had but I guess if everything always went to plan then it would be a dull emotionless sport and horse racing will never be that.
There is something about Frankie . I’ve heard he’s not a very well liked man . Hard to understand when you see him kissing people all of the time .
Mind you it wouldn’t be the first time we knew someone like that .
I heard off a lad in work who knows somebody in racing and they said the man you see on tv is totally different than the real man .
Leaving the hood on lord north was the last straw
Finished last.
His rides from epsom to ascot were very poor.
There is no issue but a holiday away from each other is exactly what is needed
ryan moore would won on strada thats for sure think gosden knows that
I think the defeat of the Queens horse in the huge handicap was the final straw in terms of the riding but I suspect he could have survived it all but for his arrogant little soundbite to the press where he underlined Gosden training prowess when he claimed it was younger legs that got Stradivarius beaten instead of accepting he rode a piss poor race..
think this horse has done enough about time he was retired
I remember in the 90s i taught a friend how to bet on the horses, he had obviously heard of Frankie detorri and asked me about him, i said he is a w??ker. When i saw that friend at tea timeish he asked why i said that. I said cos he is an arsenal fan (I'm Tottenham). My mate literally changed colour cos it was that day he won 7 at ascot. My mate missed out on winning a fortune.
Dettori? jesus at least spell his name correctly?
From hero to zero. That is over after so many bad rides. That particular horse has now bolted.
Do we care?
Life goes on. It's part of racing . There's is only so much crap you get away with. Who runs the stables? The trainer.if he's not happy with anybody working for him, all he has to do is say thank you and fare well. Dettori will be around for as long as he wishes. His agent will book rides for him. He's a tough little fellow who comes on when given a crack or two on the backside.
One door shut another one open
Dettori is past his best, there have been so many average rides by him that Gosden probably had enough
Below average sunshine. Absolutely shocking would be more on point.
I love these comments about Frankie should have done this or why did he not do that...what a load of crap. I bet those same people won with Frankie many times before. Also, most likely they may have lost money in the past on Frankie. and that's why they are so hard on him. These people did not ride the horse. They have no idea why a horse was boxed in. The jockey may see something that does not allow him to get out for fear of a foul or worse. If you are someone who can degrade Frankies career when you look at the totality of it and what he accomplished than you may have lost one hell of lot of money before. He is great when he wins, but a bum when he loses. Do you really think Frankie was not doing everything he could to make history in the Arc on Enable or Srat .No one wanted to win more than he. It is horse racing for gosh sakes and things happen. The comment, he thought he was larger than the sport. Really, well how much has European horse racing excitement been since he left it. I suppose they have not put up anymore statues at Ascot because, the ran out of Clay. In my opinion horse racing bettors and fans are the most fickle group in all of sports.
It all went pear shape when he got beat on Palace pier got beat
Would have to agree. Even though baaeed is a superstar, I thought if dettori had just kept on his heels and attack him with one burst of acceleration it could have been a different race. He played right into baaeeds hands by inviting him to come at him.
Frankie was clearly very honest about the horse, Mr Gosden probably doesn’t like to hear the truth.
He keeps leaning on the rails like an old man leaning on a zimmer
The ride on Stradivarius and the arrogance of Dettori!
Frank ie how much did you earn for that shocking ride on stradavarius!! Hahaha good boy.... Keep it quiet eh
He ain’t lost it, theirs good times and bad times simple as that, yeah he’s 51 but he’s not driving a f1 car
Emily Upjohn and Stradivarious lost thru. poor riding
Dettori was to busy pulling off betting coups for others
Two racing icons, they definitely don’t need this.
Exactly why the great Lester Piggot chose silence, it’s a medium with space for reconciliation.
Sadly horses don’t speak, but to me they do, Emily was upright, she admitted that things happen outside our control 🤷🏻♂️. Strad admitted his legs were as fresh as before. 🤗
I proposed to be their spokesperson, but it seems they already had a contract with Lester🤫
Mr Gosden should talk Frankie through his own 10 top rides. Probably never been on a horse's back.
Dreadful accompaniment please get rid of that awful music please.
IRISH DID THEIR BRAINS ON STAUETTE AND HOMELESS SONGS DIDN'T EVEN GET A RUN FOR THEIR MONEY HAHHAHA
Frankie cost Emily upjohn the oaks and stradivarius the gold Cup at 52 ? It's time to retire frankie the time has come
Dettori unico al mondo❤
Too much sherbet up the nose 😂
From the party of "family values", it matters. Is the level we should now expect from the PM? I suppose his supporters will look the other way when the next one does it. The concept of the act itself, is for him, his wife and his several mistresses. However, he is dragging this country through the mud and is a laughing stock the world over. We shouldn't accept such low standard from any MP, of any party, let alone the PM. It says more about those who continue to defend him than it does him, we already know how totally shameless he is.
What are you talking about
Trainer Gosden don't have any style.If He thought better Jockeys are available, then He should go get them to ride for him. He's being disrespectful, with his actions hinting that Frankie is washed up. The BRITISH are known for being DISLOYAL and UNGRATEFUL.
If Frankie had ridden Cracksman in the Irish derby it would have won by 5 lengths. Didn’t Gosden choose a weak jockey instead ?