HEATED DEBATE: Are Jewish People Still Chosen? Dr. Michael Brown vs Gabriel Finochio DEBATE
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- Are Jewish People Still Chosen? Dr. Michael Brown vs Gabriel Finochio DEBATE
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Since I endured Gabriel until the end, I must say that Gabriel failed and I am not impressed with his “entertainment “ style. He expressed rudeness, disrespect, and ungodly arrogance.
Hey Ruslan honest question why are you okay with saying hell in the context of “that’s a hell of a question”
Bless God Studios- have you heard of Jason Staples and his exegetical book regarding Israel’s resurrection and regathering?
@@niedlife 2:39:01
yeah i wanna know too whatsup with the cussing
You guys don’t think I may slip up and say something I shouldn’t after 2 hours of that 🤣🤣🤣
how did I just get to witness a two hour depiction of Paul’s warning about not becoming arrogant? ROMANS 11:18
😂😂😂
@@benjimusic2 yes, Israel is still the firtborn.
was gonna comment you covered it perfectly.
And avoiding contentiousness, avoiding slander, and living peaceably with all men. Dude was the opposite..this was grievous to watch.
Lol
The pride, arrogance, and childishness that is exemplified in Gabriel is truly embarrassing to watch. The fruit of the Spirit was non-existent in his speech. It seemed as though he had no control of his own tongue and refused to have any humility when he was caught in clearly misrepresenting Dr. Browns position.
Sadly yes
If you don’t see that attitude issue on both sides, you’re not seeing clearly
@derickjelley7030 there is a difference in having an attitude of seriousness and conviction that your view is correct and theirs in wrong or defending yourself against being misrepresented versus an attitude of disrespect, loss of self control in speech, and lack of any humility. If there is something I missed that Dr. Brown did that was sinful and lacking the Spirit, I appoligize for missing it. But it was unending on the side of Gabriel and rather embarrassing.
@@CDubODoubleZ Dr. Brown is more eloquent and has a better mastery of language, but if you pay careful attention, you find his words were every bit as belittling, personal, and pointed. Honestly Dr. Brown came across to me as highly emotional as well (defenders of Israel often are for some reason). I don’t think either party comported themselves well, and it is worth noting that Dr. Brown first tried to associate his opponent with Nazis before things got out of hand. It’s a debate rife with logical fallacies on both sides, and overall I don’t think it advanced anyone’s understanding or thinking on the subject.
This is just tone-policing.
When your opponent resorts to name calling, and misrepresenting your position, you have clearly won.
Ad hominem fallacy
Who was name calling and can you point to time stamp?
@@MsAchiless he compared dr brown with the prophets of Baal.
@@thomasrivera9354 no he didn’t. Watch it again, Gabe was attacking his position. And even refused that claim from Brown. It was brown who was resorting to personal attacks and called him a liar because he “misrepresented his position”. That’s bad faith argumentation. You don’t assume intent, you at least ask a question to confirm it.
Brown accused Gabe of everything that he himself was doing.
@@thomasrivera9354 check time stamp 56:18 and tell me where did he call him what your are claiming. Even better, read the transcript from that time stamp.
This settles it:
"'As concerning the gospel, they (Israel) are enemies for your sake, BUT as regarding the ELECTION, they are BELOVED for the sake of the patriarchs. For the gifts and calling of God are IRREVOCABLE." (Romans 11:28-29)
What is the context of that verse? What issue is Paul addressing? (hint: He isn't addressing salvation & he is writing to people who are currently being hunted and murdered by Jews)
@@ReverendElation This is NOT referring to salvation. Doc Brown has stated numerous times in this debate.
The whole point is that they are elected by God to be a chosen people. There are certain physical promises given to the nation of Israel by God that are separate than the spiritual promises in Christ.
This election is not rereferring to salvation. This is in regards to NATURAL Israel and the physical promises God had given them.
This is where the hermeneutics of Doctor Brown and Finocchio diverge. Gabe would argue that all the promises of Israel are spiritual in nature and pointing to Christ.
And while the majority of the promises are spiritual and are carried over to the church, there are certain PHYSICAL promises that Yahweh gave to Israel and He will not take back. They are irrevocable.
The distinction must be made between the SPIRITUAL promises of the covenant and the PHYSICAL promises. Spiritual promises (such as salvation) are only accessed by faith in Christ - this is universal, both to the Jew and the Gentile.
@@NickDuplantis This settles it:
9 “I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” (Revelation 2:9)
@@ReverendElation As Doc Brown stated numerous times, but was never allowed to finish because of the obnoxious interruptions,
This is not referring to SALVATION. Paul is referring to their physical election as a nation.
This is where the hermeneutics of Doc Brown and Finocchio greatly diverge. Gabe interprets all promises in Scripture to be Spiritual in nature - only pointing and fulfilled in Christ.
Although for the majority of OT and NT prophecy and promises this is true, there are certain covenant promises that are physical in nature and apply only to the Jewish people.
This is the distinction Paul is mentioning here in Scripture. The Jewish people, as a physical nation, are called and elected by God - not to salvation - but to certain physical promises. One of which includes the land of Israel.
The spiritual promises of God (such as salvation) can only be accessed by FAITH in Christ Jesus.
As far as the physical promises, these are regardless of Israel's obedience. They are irrevocable because the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. Israel is loved simply on the basis that God had chose them to be a unique people group. Unfortunately, because they rejected the gospel, they cannot inherit salvation apart from faith in Christ. This is universal for both Jew and Gentile.
This why Paul refers to this as a MYSTERY.
I apology for the long winded response.
“This settles it”
Wow crazy no one ever heard of that verse.
Pretentious people are their own folly
Gabe conducted himself with about as much class as Cardi B.
Gabe, James 1:19 “ Swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger.” Chill out dawg
@@roze8175 Gabe was angry before he even said a word you can see it in his face and demeanor that he was going to be closed minded and not willing to listen nor be attentive to the actual facts from the word. Weird seems a bit much like a Pharisee would behave. When the word is in your face and you still refuse to acknowledge the word which is the TRUTH you’re completely lost in pride ignorance and anger
You are missing the point of a debate. What do you think the command "shrewd as a serpent" means?
@@lanceallenmcginnis1105 shrewd don’t mean rude or the behavior he displayed, chanting Jerry Jerry Jerry or saying I like being provocative, if that’s being shrewd I guess I got the wrong definition, if anything he was the opposite of shrewd and showed how new to this he is…….
@@lanceallenmcginnis1105 Shrewd does not mean lacking in Spirit of Gentleness between brothers in Christ.
@@roze8175 have you know of Gabe before this debate? All your comments come off just as defending your favorite theologian that can do no wrong. Gabe was super chill until Dr. Brown started with the calling names lol 🤦🏻♀️ ya’ll acting as if Dr. Brown was not also being passionate and talking over Gabe interestingly not being stopped by Ruslan…
Great discussion but Gabe definitely lost his temper. He should have done his best to get clarity on Dr Brown's position, but instead tried to defend his own presumption of Dr Brown's position and lost his temper when Dr Brown tried to clarify to him his position. So Gabe was partly arguing a strawman and not Dr Brown's actual position.
Dispensationalists judging an argument separate to its tone challenge: impossible
Dr Brown claiming not to be a dispensationalist while having every single attribute of a dispensationalist doesn't exactly equate a fair conclusion.
Dr Brown's premise is baked into his conclusion sorry.
It’s ok to be wrong Dr Brown..Wrong you are, Spurgeon who you stick up for, et Spurgeon was not a tongue talker.
If you think there are still special "chosen people" based on ethnicity, you've completely missed the gospel
@@mlwilson2956 my thought exactly. Jesus, the cross, the tearing of the veil. These are all elements meant to destroy old divisions. Christ can with a sword to divide those who accept Him and those who don’t. That’s the only line of demarcation that matters.
Bunch of dorks
Sorry. The Bible clearly says Gods position on the Jewish people. They are favored
@@HankSemoreButz please show a single verse where it says *Jews* are a favored people. Not Israel, but Jews specifically.
I believe your theology is confused
@@marverb5 where in the Old Testament would you like to start?…
I was more respectful in the MW2 Xbox live lobby when I was 12 than Gabe was in this debate.
bro 🤣
Lol 😂
You probably think Jesus is offensive as well
Oh boy you really got me
Ad hominem just like Doc Brown. Yikes.
I think the main difference is how people view the word chosen/election. Being chosen/elect does not necessarily mean that the person is saved. The Jewish people are elect, but they are only saved if they have faith in Jesus. This is consistent from the Old Testament when the Jewish people fell into idolatry. They were still chosen but not saved.
Yes, you got it exactly right!
I've been reading Romans and this point is expressed on Romans 10. I believe the answer to the entire debate is in Romans chapter 9 through 11
What does chosen mean then? If chosen doesn’t grant entry to God’s Kingdom which saved gentiles can enter, what is “being chosen” about?
@MsAchiless This is somewhat of a nuanced subject, but I will try to answer your question as concisely as possible. I also want to preface by saying that this topic does touch other theological issues that can affect the conclusions a person makes on this topic.
To explain what being chosen means, it’s best to start in the Old Testament. In Deuteronomy 7:6-9, along with other OT passages, the Israelites are called God’s chosen (elect) people. They were chosen by God, but this did not automatically mean that they were saved. The Israelites had to remain faithful to God in order to be saved. Throughout the OT, there are numerous examples of the Israelites falling into idolatry, and those that took part in idolatry were not saved. Nonetheless, they were elect even though they fell into idolatry.
What we learn about election from the OT is that those who are saved are elect, but not all of the elect are saved. Another observation is that what made Israel special from the other nations was the knowledge of the one true God. In Romans 3:2, Paul makes this point as he describes the Jews as being entrusted with the oracles of God. God tasked the Israelites with being “the shining city on a hill” in order to draw the Gentile nations towards Him. The Jews alone had the knowledge of God, and therefore, are chosen because the path of salvation had been revealed to them. A quick note, a Gentile could be saved by putting their faith in God in the OT. God did not limit salvation to the Jews alone.
In the New Testament, we see the same consistent message concerning election. There are many passages that reflect the chosen as being saved. However, there are also passages that distinguish election from salvation. In Matthew 24:24, Jesus mentions that in the end times there will be false christs and prophets who will try to deceive people, including the elect. The chosen people who are deceived would not be saved given the context of the passage. 2 Timothy 2:10 is another verse that distinguishes election from salvation. Paul writes that he endures everything for the elect, so that they may obtain salvation. There are various interpretations of this verse, but what is undeniable is that election and salvation are not the same thing in this verse.
In Romans 11:28-29, Paul calls the unbelieving Jews elect. The Jews remain elect, but they are not saved because of their unbelief in Jesus. In verses 13-24 of the chapter, Paul describes how the Jews were cut off because of their unbelief, and the Gentiles were grafted in because of their faith/belief. The Gentiles are also now chosen because the knowledge and kingdom of God is not just limited to national Israel. The Gospel is for the world. However, being chosen and having the knowledge of Christ does not necessarily mean that you have salvation. Paul warns that if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare the Gentiles who fall into unbelief.
To sum up, being chosen is about having the knowledge of God. That knowledge is the path to salvation. Nevertheless, a person can have that knowledge and make a choice to not follow the Lord. The Jews today are still elect as promised by God. They have the knowledge of God and have had the path of salvation revealed to them. Once again though, only the Jews who put their faith in Jesus are saved.
A passage that puts all of these concepts together is 2 Peter 1:3-11. God bless!
@@clayw70 Thank you for taking time to respond. This is very clear. God bless!
This guy set up so many straw man arguments against Dr brown, it’s laughable. He makes a lot of accusations even when Dr b says that’s not what he believes.
Young man has a deeper problem than this debate...
Gabe chose the way of Barrabas with his attacks😅. Doctor demonstrated the way of Christ with His Charity and Demeanor. Gabe wanted to win the argument, he had no interest in convincing or persuading His opponent or the audience and managed to accomplish neither.
Dude lost his verbal restraint and still got beat..he even had to concede Dr. Brown's principal point albeit backhandedly. Biblically, he was contentious and unwilling to be at peace throughout this debate. Repent, bro!
@@fredball8240 we gotta stick together family!
It's a common problem with the internet age. Young people have absolutely 0 respect for anyone.
One of these guys was sober, sincere & civil. The other manifested his awe of his opponent & justified insecurity in bombastic rudeness & childish petulance.
🤔🧐 hmmmm
This is a straight up Shakespearian explanation. Cheers
💯 agreed 😬
It was the sneering and looks of disgust that from Gabe that turned me off……..
That doesn’t make him wrong though
If this debate was about being "provocative", then Gabe won. He proved that when you can't defend your view you attack the person. I can appreciate Gabes forthrightness but tonight he showed his inability to be gracious and lost his message in his juvenile behavior and approach.
Well done, Dr. Brown. You modeled grace, wisdom, and spiritual maturity while demonstrating a firm grasp on your perspective on this topic.
Thanks, Ruslan, for hosting this debate.
Gabe never attacked Dr. Brown. In a debate setting the whole point is to attack the other persons views. If anything Dr. Brown attacked Gabe personally.
I'd like to point out that Brown began the attack, and continued throughout while also playing the victim.
Brown compared Gabe to Nazis and a persecutor of Jews, then reviled Gabe as a liar when Gabe compared Brown's theology to Baal worship. Brown repeatedly misrwpresented Gabe as a replacement theologian but reviled Gabe as unethical when he misrepresented Browns position also. Brown also lied when he said he didn't know how Gabe was using the word heretic, because Brown accused Gabe of claiming that Brown was going to hell. Ruslan also used the title 'Dr.. Brown' to steel man Brown's position and even defended Brown when when was in hot water.
@@lanceallenmcginnis1105 There can be attacks in debates but as brothers in Christ, we should do it in a Spirit of Gentleness.
@@fourthplateau944 He didn't misrepresent Gabe as a replacement theologian, he is a replacement theologian. What he presented is classic replacement theology. N.T. Wright spent like a thousand pages in The New Testament and the People of God detailing this. Brown also didn't compare Gabe to the Nazis he said the theological viewpoint that Gabe put forth was what the Nazis used as a moral justification. Again that is a 100% accurate statement. Gabe basically restated the arguments of Friederich Deilitzch, known as Hitler's theologian. Theology is not just academic. We must look at its fruit, and that was what Dr. Brown was pointing out. The Fruit of the theological perspective that Gabe is putting forth has been over 1000yrs of persecution.
Gabe’s entire argument is a strawman around the hour and twenty minute mark. While he brings up good points overall, his arrogance is evident while being blatantly shown he’s fabricating facts. Much respect to Dr.Brown for his professionalism and respecting the ethics of debate.
I’ve lived in pride and arrogance for a long time and I’m praying for freedom for Gabe.
100%
So how can you be God's chosen and elect people and reject Jesus and still go to heaven? Gabe may not have delivered the info how everyone wanted but it doesn't cancel the fact that thus question can't be answered by that position.
I don't know who's side is right tbh... but I remember these verses:
John 5:26-27
26 For just as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted to the Son to have life in Himself.
27 And He has granted Him the right to pass judgment, because He is the •Son of Man.
John 5:45-47
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom you have set your hope.
46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, because he wrote about Me.
47 But if you don’t believe his writings, how will you believe My words? ”
So even though Jesus has the power to pass judgement (unto life or condemnation), it will only be Moses who will accuse the non-believing anti-Christian Jews. That's how I interpret it.
It´s all answered in Romans 11. The Jews are still chosen and beloved even when they reject Christ (Romans 11:28). But those who reject Christ do not go to heaven, but are broken off from salvation (Romans 11:19-22).
Dr. Brown wasn't arguing that Israel is chosen in the sense that they will all be 'saved' individually. _Nationally,_ Israel (the physical descendants of Abraham through Isaac and Jacob) is chosen by God. *Chosen for what?* For salvation to come into the world through Abraham's seed (Yeshua). Promises were made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. _This nation of people_ had the knowledge of God directly handed down to them and they were to protect it. The messiah would come through them. They were chosen for this purpose. Promises were made to them. *Individually,* they must still have a personal relationship with God through the messiah (Jesus) in order to be 'saved'. They are 'elect' (chosen) for God's purposes as a _nation_ but they must still be 'saved' _individually_ in order to be with God in eternity. God made promises to the *nation.* Those promises still stand, they are not null and void just because Israel has rejected Yeshua _nationally_ up to this point. In the future, when they, as a nation, say 'blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord' they will be delivered and inherit those national promises. They are still 'chosen' (elect) as a nation. Individually they still must each come to YHVH through Yeshua in order to be 'saved'.
Doc Brown isn’t my cup of tea on so many topics but he knocked it out of the park on this one. The Word stands. Good job! 👍
In a few sentences, what case was he making? In a nutshell. I found it confusing.
@@robbieelliot9491
The case that all the church fathers AND the Bible is wrong and Dr Brown is correct🙄
@@user-lv3mc7rj4h
It's not replacement theology, its fulfillment theology we're assimilating in the religion that they're supposed to be a part of.
Robotic Judaism started a 200 to 500 years AFTER Christ.
Jews are about a saved as a Mormon, one cannot make up a religion not be a cult.
@bygraceonly182
How?? Half of Browns opening was an appeal to authority fallacy. He didn't give scholars arguments, he gave scholars who agreed on one point! How did he knock it out the park??
There aren't two covenants. There is one. Abraham's seed is the church
@@Biblehasaleftsidealso they aren't saved at all, yet, for the most part. But they will be. Amos 9, zeph. 3, zech 12-14
Gabes demeanor grieves me. We won't make any progress toward unity if we treat each other like this. May God have mercy on us all.
10000%
You probably would have been grieved hanging out with Jesus as well. "Does this offend you" - Jesus.
@@lanceallenmcginnis1105 Nonsense, nice try to make the two comparable in any way.... yikes
Dr. Brown gives off the demeanor and rhetoric of a seasoned evangelist, scholar, and teacher. Gabe gave off the demeanor and rhetoric of a scholar who is prepared to be challenged, but not used to being challenged.
Id say both had an irritated demeanor
What a poor showing from Gabe. I can’t imagine Ruslan rebooking him for anything
Ruslan, i would love to see more debates on this channel. Despite the heated aspect of it, I found that it was still beneficial and I’m glad it was done. A lot to learn from it.
How can someone be so arrogant and annoying for 2+ hours when the guy he is debating is being completely calm and collected. Kept waiting for bro to run out of steam but he's just committed to acting like a child and fighting. Gabe appears spiritually sick.
IDK man Dr. Brown was a bit heated about being called a dual covenant guy. Understandably so, and he was mature, but he was blasting him a bit.
@@Shardalon he was a saint, comparably
Brown was about as bad as Gabe to be honest. Brown compared Gabe to Nazis and a persecutor of Jews, then reviled Gabe as a liar when Gabe compared Brown's theology to Baal worship. Brown repeatedly misrwpresented Gabe as a replacement theologian but reviled Gabe as unethical when he misrepresented Browns position also. Brown also lied when he said he didn't know how Gabe was using the word heretic, because Brown accused Gabe of claiming that Brown was going to hell. Ruslan also used the title Dr. Brown to steel man Brown's position and even defended Brown when when was in hot water. Frankly both sides were terribly dishonest. Brown is a racist, and Gabe is immature. They both actually agree, but Brown wants Christians to treat sinful jews better than sinful gentiles. Israel will likely belong to both sides in the end as a mixed multitude. But who knows? These two clearly do not.
@@fourthplateau944 Brown wasnt perfect by any means but lets be honest, he was reacting to a very hostile Gabe, who thought it was funny to just "be provocative". Under those circumstances i thought brown did fine. and as far as the debate itself goes, I dont really have a dog in the fight and i think they both have decent arguments
@krufty47 I agree that he was reacting. Gabe's prideful opening statement really set the tone. I just want people to see that both sides need to mature spiritually
I have a greater level of respect for Dr. Michael Brown after this. Ruslan as well. Great job mediating during the rough spots.
Because you fell for Brown’s “cheap tactics” he accuses Gabe from doing. Gabe got irritated but rightly so, Brown is far from graceful. So many are deceived by his tone of voice and facial expression they don’t even notice his words…straw manning and vicious personal attacks he started as soon as his 12min rebuttal started.
Dr Brown exemplifies the trope of "cries out in pain as they strike you".
He calls Gabe "childish", "unethical", "a liar" , "silly" etc, etc, then proceeds to accuses Gabe of making personal attacks.
What a joke.
He’s a slimy one for sure.
The questions I have are, what does 'choseness' really mean if not some form of superiority or authority, and how are Jews chosen by God if God is Jesus and Jews don't believe in him?
Dr.Brown was absolutely fantastic
@@ChrisGarcia. yes he was!!! There’s levels to this lol
but is still in the incorrect
I beg to differ, the amount of error and accusations he contributed made it hard to follow. He started the belittling comments and continued all the way through while playing the victim. Lastly, he never addressed any point, he just disagreed and jumped around. Overall, the debate was hard to follow because of it.
Not really, in my humble opinion
This debate was two against one. Staying calm does not make a person correct in their claims, but it is a good tactic.
Gabe "The Promise is in Jesus Christ." Michael Brown "No Matter what you do, I'm going to still preserve you even outside Jesus." How can you be a chosen people of God Outside Jesus Christ??????
Because of the promises God made to Abraham and Israel. That's Dr. Brown's whole point. Those promises are not revoked.
Jews still need Jesus, but they never stop being God's chosen people.
Not chosen for salvation, chosen for a specific purpose in God’s plan. I think they are not understanding what the other means “chosen for”.
@@jasonjenny2 Yeah and thats what happens at the middle of the cross. I'm also unclear what chosen means.
Just go read Romans 9,10 and 11. The jews are still chosen cause that's who God made his original promise with.
Romans 11:1-2 ESV
[1] I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. [2] God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew.
They still need to have faith in Jesus Christ(this point expressed in Romans 10)
but they're will be a remnant of Israel that will come to Christ
Romans 11:5 ESV
[5] So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.
@@sohloh32gaming92 Over the Week I have meditated on this subject and have come to the conclusion that Jews are Gods Chosen people under the Cross and Resurrection of Jesus Christ! No longer Jews or Gentiles we are all brothers and Sisters in Christ!
Hands down one of the worst debate performances I've ever seen from Gabriel Finochio... He made it personal, mischaracterized Dr. Brown's beliefs, and Dr. Brown just ran circle around him in regards to knowledge and interpretation of scripture. Embarrassing. Gabe is just unhinged, and certainly doesn't show Christ in his behavior in this debate
It would have been beneficial to outline what each other's definition meant before the debate or in the opening argument. I do feel there was talking over and under each other. I will admit Gabe's behavior was poor-sad to see. I understood what both sides were saying but really think these 2 werent even arguing on the same understanding of each others definitions.
Gabe's definition of chosen appears to mean salvation
While Dr. Brown's definition appears to mean "chosen to be used as some tool for the future"
Both definitions are true in themselves but theyre not even arguing on the same matter
Gabe is insufferable and has discredited himself in this debate. I've watched many theological debates, some of them heated, and I have never seen someone this immature and mean-spirited. I feel bad for Ruslan and Dr. Brown having to try to contain him.
Why are you people so soft?
Being respectful is not being soft@@its.okay.to.be.christian
@@its.okay.to.be.christian Why are you so willing to excuse a spirit of division? Calling wise, calm men “soft” isn’t loving or Christ-like. You need to examine your heart as much as Gabe does, apparently.
@amyk87 because I watched the video, and these guys are simply being soft. Christ was not a weak, soft man.
@@its.okay.to.be.christian do you know these men personally to characterize them as "soft"?
Gabe: Attacks Dr. Brown personally.
Also Gabe: "Why you taking it personally, bro?"
Dr. Brown has been given gifts to defend and spread the gospel both inside and outside of Christianity.
He turned a debate with Muslims into an alter call that spread the gospel into the Islamic community that upset them so much and made them so angry they began to actively try to copyright strike any video on YT that reproduced the entire debate.
Gab with his personal attacks on Brown is reminiscent of the style of rhetoric that a good Islamist would use.
Because he figured out he doesn’t know what he talking about.
He was about as bad as Gabe to be honest. Brown compared Gabe to Nazis and a persecutor of Jews, then reviled Gabe as a liar when Gabe compared Brown's theology to Baal worship. Brown repeatedly misrwpresented Gabe as a replacement theologian but reviled Gabe as unethical when he misrepresented Browns position also. Brown also lied when he said he didn't know how Gabe was using the word heretic, because Brown accused Gabe of claiming that Brown was going to hell. Ruslan also used the title Dr. Brown to steel man Brown's position and even defended Brown when when was in hot water. Frankly both sides were terribly dishonest. Brown is a racist, and Gabe is immature. They both actually agree, but Brown wants Christians to treat sinful jews better than sinful gentiles. Israel will likely belong to both sides in the end as a mixed multitude. But who knows? These two clearly do not.
@@fourthplateau944he didn’t misrepresent Gabe. And he most definitely called Gabe a liar when he lied.
Dispensationalists unable to see their own hypocrisy challenge: impossible
I’m only about an hour and 15 minutes in, and I think I’m mostly on Dr micheal Brown’s side, but it’s interesting to see people think Gabriel was being unfair or mean to Mr. Brown. Brown is doing an awful lot of uncharitable assumptions of Gabriel’s stance and morale character. Both men aren’t doing a great job being charitable, and it seems to be gettin worse as the two men accuse each other of wrong doing as I continue watching.
I’ll keep watching though to see if the comments are correct.
@@whattheheckification im curious, now that you have seen more, what did you think?
@@bjrnroargisnas6337
I still think both men attacked each other’s characters at points. And I do think Ruslan was a little one sided and joined the debate on Browns side a bit. However, yeah Gabriel was a bit worse behaved than Micheal Brown, especially as it went on. And again, I tend to agree more with Micheal Brown, but both men were raising good points at times.
@@whattheheckification Thanks for the reply☺️🙏🏻 I appreciate it. Personally I thought Dr. Brown buried Gabe both in presentation and appearance. But I do value other people’s perspectives since I certainly have my own particular set of glasses to look at stuff. ☺️
Saying that we‘re right, because we read the scriptures, but Ignatius of Antioch, who not only knew exactly what the apostles wrote, but got discipled by them and basically lived under them (perhaps for decades) is wrong. Well, this seems quite arrogant. Again, Gabe is clearly correct.
Ruslan, Ive followed both of these men a while. I thought you Did a phenominal job with mediating this conversation. Appreciate your calmness and even your own clarity. Bless you.
This ⏫
He did not stay as a moderator what do you mean he was so one sided his friend was dr Michael brown it’s clear as day how can you praise him???
Yes
@@nicolasdol2920
I'm right there with you, as Ruslan usually does a much better job?
Touchy subject & Zionists practically manifest, no offense if you don't completely agree with them...
Israel is 70% atheist, 25%+🏳️🌈
Is the 🏳️🌈 CAPITAL of the world, and statistically the gRape capital of the East.
These are rational concerns & the ELECT/Christians are being deceived/played
Get educated AND stay neutral😬
Gabe is arrogant and ignorant. Definitely not a good debater!! Ruslan should not be making light of the fact that Gabe is an “entertainer” when he was supposed to be having a sensible debate. He needs no encouragement to be such a horrible representative for the fruit of the Spirit. This wasn’t a debate….it was a mature very well studied elder trying to interact with a middle schooler brat. Dr. Brown is a great debater and I wish he hadn’t wasted his time doing this with Gabe.
@@kat-im7le Agree 100%! And there was nothing “entertaining” about Gabe.
Nah. He is shrewd as a serpent which is much needed to counter the deception that Jews are chosen.
Gabe dude is arrogant
Dr. Brown is a missionary Jew. It's ironic how he keeps on saying that the text speaks for itself. But he is notoriously known of ignoring the old testament and quoting the new testament. He is the king of 'taking things out of context. Even in this debate he kept citing quotes from the new testament and completely twisted the old testament.
Dr. Brown is a joke.
MESSIANIC Jew not "missionary" Jew..Messianic Jews quote from the NT because they believe it.
Dr Brown 1-Gabe 0
I think the real question for dr Brown is who are the Jews and what are they chosen for?
Gabriel sounded very much confused, ignored Brown's arguments, took verses out of context and constantly used strawman arguments. Almost as if Gabriel wasn't knowing what he was talking about... 😅
Yes. Gabe was not listening to anything that Dr. Brown was saying. Gabe continually brings up topics which Dr. Brown already covered. Gabe was not listening to anything that Dr. Brown said. Regarding this debate, Gabe was in over his head. Way over his head.
@@mjrjolt Have a re-watch. Gabe has an important case for us as all Christians. Brown reframed the debate topic from Chosen People. Are you saying what Gabe said is wrong?
@@robbieelliot9491 Yes, Robbiee....Gabe could not and would not engage Dr. Brown on Romans 11 and other scriptures from OT. Gabe quoted the church fathers, but did a poor job of rebutting Dr. Brown's scriptural arguments. And when Dr. Brown tried to engage him, Gabe would move on to another topic or scripture. He refused to engage because he was so ill-equipped with scriptural knowledge. Gabe tried to say that Judaism was apostate and irrelevant because of the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. He ignores the fact that Judaism continues and the saints are meeting in synagogues which Dr. Brown stated several times, in the book of James. Again, Gabe refused to deal with this passage in James re: meeting in the synagogues. So, Gabe was a sad, poor, pathethic loser in this debate, and that's obviously not just my opinion. Any objective observer who supported Gabe should be embarrassed by his performance. He was in over his head!!!
Thumbs down. I very much appreciate Dr Eitan Bar. I'd love to meet him and talk to him about how all of us are to see Jesus in the TaNaK. The REALITY is that The TaNaK is about Jesus BEFORE it is about anybody in the Scriptures. It is about Jesus before it is about Israel, before it is about Abraham, before it is about David and before it is about Noah, and before it is about Adam. I think the entire debate is off focus.
Ruzlan is in error here time 1:20:37
Dr.Brown holds to his own personal view of dual covenant theology.
Dr.Brown does not belief that the Jews and Christians will be saved the same way.
Example - Dr. Brown beliefs that when Christ comes all Jews of today will see Christ in the air as Israel is surrounded by their enemies and almost being destroyed. As the Jews look at Christ they will know who He is and what wrong they have done. At the moment in time they all will repent and accept him as their Messiah. Christ will intervene and in this way ALL JEWS WILL BE SAVED.
This is a misrepresentation of scripture towards believers of today. Ruzlan should rather have stayed more neutral and ask the gentleman to explain. So he is not inparial here but siding with Dr.Brown instead of as a moderator humbling himself and not take side which he did.
This is a dually in the salvation process in which Christ saves some people differently to others which leads to their not being 1 body of believers or 1 church.
This is Dr.Brown unbiblical beliefs system. Place that adjacent to the coming of the Flood so shall the coming of Christ be...then you have serious problems. You have to be in Christ Dr.Brown before the flood comes and before Christ comes. Remember this point. God told Noah and his family to go into the Ark. Christ came and told everyone to believe and have in Him.
I say it again ...your degrees and scholarship means nothing if you miss the little things which is the important thing.
Easy win for Brown. Gabe is a bad faith and unskilled debater. He is a wrangler that lacks basic character to rep his side well. Far more qualified dissenters for Brown to debate.
So EVERY person born a Jew and EVERY Ethic Jew in History Past Present and Future will be in Heaven.. including such Atheists as Larry King and Howard Stern Right? 😮
Keep hosting debates, they’re important. Thanks!
How would historic protestantism reject Messianic Judaism? Peter was a messianic Jew.
Peter was a catholic.
Peter was a Christian. Choosing a different name is rejecting the body
What is this comment supposed to mean?
Early protestants don't believe in replacement theology
@@Bigchickens what is it, specifically, that makes Messianic judaism heretical?
I like how everyone here is focused on Gabe's tone, but are unable to say anything against his theology
If you judge a debate only on how nice they are then you are a sheltered child.
This👏🏼
Not sure tbh is makes one a sheltered child. I think you can condemn a debate between believers by how they embody integrity and biblical values. I think it would be foolish to say someone “won” based on just who was nicer, so I agree there, but you can still judge Gabe’s attitude and behavior.
@@user-zg1lr3oq6f His theology is ignorant clearly against Dr brown's and it clearly shows he doesn't understand the old testament prophecies and phrases regarding israel and when jesus comes back.
Thank you. EXACTLY 👍
@@italiabosh 😂
I’m finding this frustrating because neither side has defined terms. For example, what does ‘chosen/elected mean to each side? Who are the ‘Jews’? The term ‘Jews’ and ‘Israel’ seem to be interchangeable in this debate but should they really be interchangeable when the tribes in the Northern kingdom were spread throughout the world? Again that was not defined, discussed and clarified.
Dr. Brown clearly defined what chosen/election means according to scripture. It's for vocation or service.
I have questions on:
1. Choseness - elected to service (its presumed purpose, when, to what end)
2. How does one commit to the belief that Israel is chosen without some parenthetical doctrine like Dispensationalism, or Christian-Judaism?
3. If Israel is chosen, to serve the future Kingdom of Christ, what measure or bearing does that have on
those that are in covenanted relationship with Jesus Christ until such a time as their election should be fulfilled (not of Israel)?
4. Does presumed election on part of the nation of Israel account for all of historical Israel being saved?….Israel in past and present, and future? Or only all of Israel that exists at the time in which their promise is to be fulfilled?
5. Presumed by my fourth question, “WHO IS ALL of Israel”?
6. Does election vindicate anything egregious that they as a people today may do? If so? How is it justified? Both now and presumably, in the future Kingdom of Christ (wherein in they must serve)?
Thank you, sir, for saying this. Dr. Brown never addressed it in the debate.
These would have been awesome question for Gabe to ask. I’ll pass them on to Dr. Brown.
@@BlessGodStudios wow! What an honor Ruslan! Thank you! 🙏🏾 man I appreciate that wow
@@its.okay.to.be.christian thank you brother for chiming in. What do you think?
@@john.jai.sullivan , I think you nailed the crux of the debate. The who, what, where, and why and that words have meaning and Dr.Brown was not giving solid definitions for his terms. It was a 2 vs 1 debate. Also, I believe the word heretic has meaning and that it's justified to call someone a heretic if they are one.
46:27 The difference between God calling Israel his people in the OT when they were in sin was because the fullness of His revelation wasn’t revealed yet. Now that Christ has been revealed there is no excuse. Grace is now paramount in its abundance, and yet the Jewish people reject it and spit on it. The remnant are those who are in Christ by Faith alone, not by birth.
@trilltez
Luke 9:22-> Romans 11:25-32
@@johnmann8659Romans 9:6-1 --> Galations 3:16-29
@@johnmann8659Romans 9:6-9 --> Galatians 3:16-29
AMEN!
@@trilltez That passage in Galatians is addressing being under the law. It has nothing to do with God breaking His word to the Jewish people.
Anyone who believes God cancelled His promise to keep Israel as His special treasure is calling Him a liar and an oath-breaker. If He can break His promise to them, He can break His promise to YOU.
Spoiler alert: He can’t.
Why are we debating? This scripture below sums it all up .
I ask, then, has God rejected his own people, the nation of Israel? Of course not! I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham and a member of the tribe of Benjamin. Romans 11:1 NLT.
I think a lot of the debate comes from the present-day American view of Israel. I feel like a lot of Christians want to blindly support Israel which is where I disagree. Israel will turn from darkness, but until then, it's important to understand that present-day Israel does not respect us as Christians, nor have Christian interests at heart. None the less, I pray for the day the Nation of Israel repents and chooses to acknowledge Jesus as Messiah and God.
Because under the new covenant Jews can still become his chosen people?
@aiden2804 Paul says there's a veil over their eyes , one day, they will accept Jesus as their Messiah . We all are Jews ,meaning we all are God's chosen people through Jesus.
@@laurabeseth3943 The chosen doesn't change the covenant changed.
@@jodashpillay7740 amen God bless you
Gabriel Finochio was so out of line with Dr. Brown (and Ruslan). I honestly cannot believe how much patience Dr. Brown has because I 100% would have rage quit that debate with the way Gabriel lied and then played dumb about it. God bless you Dr. Brown and may the Lord give me that amount of patience with people like that.
I am a gentile believer and I am appalled by some Christians in the comments being anti semitic/ hating Jews! It is wrong to keep blaming Jews as a whole for the death of the savior. I remind you that the Romans took part in the crucifixion as well!!
1 John tells us that we cannot hate our brother and say we love God!
I remind you that it was the sins of every man on the cross and He bore it! He carried it for me and you! Therefore stop blaming one group! We are ALL guilty!!!
The bible explicitly states multiple times that the jews killed Jesus Christ, as does the Talmud as does Paul and Peter in their preaching. If you say it is wrong to assign blame you condemn the apostles themselves. The Jew is accountable for his sin just as the gentile is, but you can see a direct refusal to be accountable for killing Christ.
John 10:18, "No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received from my Father". He gave his life for us as atonement for our sins.
@drewdouglas1844
The world's sins put Christ on the cross,Jews are just the ones who handed him over,and Gentiles are the ones who killed him.
Also let's not forget what it's says in Romans 11 about wanting to feel than Jews:
Romans 11:17-18 ESV
[17] But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, [18] do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you.
Matter of fact,I haven't even finished watching this debate and I feel like the answer to the question they're debating is in Romans chapter 9 all the way to Romans chapter 11.
*St. Paul settled this debate close to two thousand years ago:*
*Romans 9:6-9* : _"But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” _*_This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring._*_ For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.”_
@groundzero_us
Paul is saying live like your ancestor Abraham or get blotted out.
Ishmael: Genesis 16:11-12-> Genesis 22:1-2
Esau: Malachi 1:1-4
Judas Iscariot: Acts 1:15-20
Can you tell me your view of this text more please.
@@GroundZero_US this is still out of context. Can you provide more verse? Especially start with verse 1?
@@john.jai.sullivan A plain reading of the text suggests that St. Paul is saying that race or blood doesn't make you a child of Abraham; rather, faith in God is what makes you a child of Abraham.
What this scripture says is that the children of the promise (The promise is The Holy Spirit) are counted as the seed. Humans baptised with the Holy Spirit are counted as the seed. It's as simple as that.
What happened to us Gentiles. Isreal is in a state of blindness for us to come in. The Bible is Jewish Book. All the writers are Jews. All the prophets are Jews. All the Apostles are Jews. The Holy Land which is the central place of the Bible is Jewish and last the Messiah we serve in His humanity is Jewish.
So Jew is your ultimate God? Sorry, I missed where it says that Christians should worship to bow down to Jews?
Galations 3:9
And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Galatians 3:28
New King James Version
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Galations 3:29
And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
"Jews without Christ are lost, but they remain elected." This is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard. No. If you do not have the Son, you do not have the Father. Period.
Ruslan, I love debates and am happy to see you hosting things like this. One thing that I think would be enormously helpful moving forward is to either stick to a strict debate format or just have a discussion where you help make sure it says civil.
This debate was a weird mixture of both and I think that contributed to the confusion. When it is a strict format is absolutely clear who is meant to be speaking and who is interrupting.
For instance when you stepped in to correct Gabe on Dr. Brown’s position on dual covenant theology. This would have been perfectly appropriate in a discussion that you are moderating. But in a structured debate it’s not good to weigh in on an issue that is directly relevant to a speakers position. Also in a discussion/dialogue you have more latitude to discuss more topics like it seemed you wanted to. It’s simple to ask further questions such as “whats your opinion of the reformation?” Whereas in a debate a person should really only need to speak on the resolution being debated.
Anyway this is just my opinion and I enjoy your content, God bless!
You started out introducing these two men as thinkers. Mr. Finochio proved that he is not a thinker with his sophomoric name-calling and daytime TV chants. He doesn't have an argument so he resorts to childishness.
Gabe is a really good example of what belligerent dogmatism looks like in the Christian community, thank God for this debate to expose how immobile and insulated his views are. Good platforms do this, thank you Ruslan.
Dude… if the churches were falling in error WHILE THE APOSTLES WERE ALIVE. I promise you they can and will fall into error after the apostles.
I believe Gabe quoted Irenaeus, who was 130-200 AD in France. He was a pupil of Polycarp. Polycarp actually did observe Jewish elements concerning Passover and other things that the church eventually outlawed in the Council of Nicaea. The point Brown was making was that apostles didn’t hold Gabe’s position.
To this day, we observe passover, the true passover, Pascha. Become Orthodox
@@blackzodiac420cool. I am a Protestant who celebrates the true Passover, Páscoa.
Dr. Michael Brown won this easily. He just had too much of an advantage since the scriptures truely agree with him.
I'm perplexed at the oversensitive reaction in the comment section of this debate. It really wasn't what you all are making it out to be. And I've followed Dr. Brown for years.
@@TruthSeeker_7 did you watch it all?
@MHJT5090 Yes from beginning to the end. Like I said, I think people are very oversensitive.
The debate is "Are the Jewish people still chosen?" Dr. Brown argues that his position is that they are called for service. If that's the case then why not change the topic then?
What service and to whom?
I read the comments before watching believing what the majority said and then after watching I can't see what they're talking about
God bless Dr. Brown, he's a real champion of our faith.
I really hope Gabe's pastor reads these comments and gives him a reality check on his maturity and how he conducts himself. Even if he's right, he lost the argument by being so childish
Gabe is Catholic
@BlessGodStudios
Would love to see this topic revisited and debated again between Dr Brown and an actual scholar who’s mature enough to disagree but act with respect instead of yelling “Jerry, Jerry” in the middle of a debate.
Doctor Brown has done many of those. This was better and unique because it had "Jerry, Jerry" type humor throughout.
@@lanceallenmcginnis1105 I don’t know if better is the right word, entertaining sure 🤣 but in a kind of way you look back and realize man, that kind of attitude in a serious debate is disrespectful
@@tinas7909 not in this debate he wasn’t
@@christophercook1978 very true! I was actually shocked by Gabe’s statement on the Reformation! 🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
@@tinas7909 I agree with Gabe on the Reformation for the most part 🤣 I was more speaking to his attitude and character.
I am so tired of the antisemitism card being pulled in this debate topic.
1. It doesn't matter if Gabriel's position leads to antisemitism. What matters if it is true or not.
2. Gabriel's position is not antisemitic. How it was interpreted throughout history is the fault of bad faith actors not the doctrine itself.
I agree but I think as Dr Brown mentioned replacement theology though not anti semitic in itself was a trailhead in some Anti Semitic beliefs throughout the early church, The Middle Ages, and even during Nazi Germany.
@beholden1663 Yes but it is irrelevant. I can understand if there were doctrines that encouraged the active persecution if Jews by Christians. Replacement Theology, however, does nor tell Christians what to do with ethnic Jews. It is simply irrelevant to the debate topic l.
It does matter, "church" tradition cannot lead to murder and death if it is true.
@@beholden1663 um that’s exactly why he wrote the last sentence lol
Just believe in Jesus Christ. You will be enlightened. Europeans christians( catholics, then protestant) wronged the Jews by promoting pogroms against the Jews.Forgive thier ignorance.
What a horrible debate, I disagree with both. Why is it that Dr. Brown with all of his great style - clearly a smart man - why is he constantly able to play the racism card and falsely accuse his opponent of so called "Replacement Theology"? When people use deception and call themselves Chirstian - like Christ - I have a problem with that. This debate is no better than Yea - But Theology, it only appears one sided because Dr. Brown knows how to pull the heart strings and use deceit in his superior performance - The other guy even looks a frumpy on camera - was that intentional? Performance doesn't make right!
Use deceit? Where did he use deceit? The Word of God is the Word of God and never changing. Israel is still chosen and always will be. Any person who says the church has replaced Israel is false and guilty of Replacement Theology. Plain and simple.
Yes!!!!
I think that Gab has lost this one, because he doesn’t know his subject Scripturally and historically. Dr Brown knocked this subject out with every clear statement that encompasses the whole council of God’s Word.
My opinion is that the verse is clear, the partial blindness is delivered by God so that the Gentiles have time to be brought in. In that sense the Jews are still Chosen by God and are fulfilling his purpose until they are all saved at the end. The wine skins parable also implies that both covenants are valid in the eyes of God. I also believe the two witnesses in the book of revelation are not two persons. But both Jews and Christians joined together and prophesying at the end of times.
No the Wine skins parable explains that the new can not fit with the old.
13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:13 NKJV
Yet Paul said not Israel is the Israel of God in Romans 9-11. Only the remnant in ethnic Israel are the chosen ones redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ. To teach otherwise is to end up in the error of dual covenant theology
@@kevinevans8892You’re right. Throughout every generation, God has preserved for Himself a remnant, as Paul said in Romans 11.
At the end of the age, there will be a one-third remnant that survives the “time of Jacob’s trouble”. (Zechariah 13:8)
That one-third will accept Christ as Messiah and be saved.
I can’t stand all the arrogance in the church. “Thanks for letting me correct your theology.” 🤦🏻♂️
I understand he meant it as a joke, but I don’t think he really was joking. I think he actually has that attitude, like so many Christians I know.
I’m confused what he even believes. Or what his denomination is exactly. All I can tell is he didn’t pay attention to being the salt of the earth, and being calm and collecting. His behavior was similar to one who is afraid to let someone poke at their beliefs lest their beliefs crumble to the ground.
Gabe kept misunderstanding Michael. He reacted as if Michael was saying all Jews are saved. That is not what he meant. Michael was simply arguing that modern Jews still have a purpose on earth, and their becoming a nation will lead to an ultimate return to God, who is Jesus Christ.
I'm embarrassed to have listened to Gabe yell instead of respond to questions.
As a person who is currently more orthodox but spent significant time in the charismatic Pentecostal branch of the church… I believe that Gabe is correct. Dr. Brown has a certain view because the Israel pillar is foundational to the charismatic model. I’m not apt to trust their judgement.
@danih2444 conversely, as someone who is charasmatic that seen a lot of orthodox content and comments, it seem the orthodox people are far more rigid and will not listen to anything that is counter to what they were taught. Because you place tradition at such a high level, you are less willing to critically look at those traditions. My experience is the exact opposite of yours. The comments on this video prove my point.
Who are the 144k?
I soooo wanted to side with Gabe because I mostly agree with him on the issue of Israel today.
However, I have NEVER encountered such immaturity in a debate. Shameful!!!
I don't understand how Michael Brown supports that Israel are still Chosen (which I agree with) which is biblical, yet doesn't believe in Dispensationalism, which is also biblical and actually a building block to his position..
You can choose not to believe in Replacement Theology and still understand that Jesus is the only way for mankind.
Dual covenant theology is NOT the idea that Jews can come to Christ outside of the cross. I’ve always been a big fan of Dr Brown, but his description of dual covenant theology here is a total straw man. He probably misspoke. I hope so.
Gabe is a child in a man’s body. The way he reacts when he has to sit through rebuttals is revealing. He looks so uncomfortable having to actually listen to people.
Can’t believe Ruslan didn’t call out Browns sneaky condescension and manipulation. WILD
It was so obvious that Ruslan was being influenced by the chat and not moderating properly.
The spirit of anti-Christ is in any religion/person that denies CHRIST 👍 any religion or person that’s fact
Why would Dr. Brown choose to debate with someone as immature and emotionally charged as Gabe? It would have been better if Ruslan had moderated the debate more effectively. I hope you will invite a skilled and professional debater who is a perfect match for Dr. Brown
Go ahead and do that. No one will watch and no one will learn or be challenged. This is the best content Ruslan has put out.
@lanceallenmcginnis1105 nope
wasnt gabe the one who requested to debate Dr Brown
I’m excited to watch this since I don’t know where I stand on this and would like to hear their views.
You can’t be chosen by if you murder your God.
@@22grena YOU “killed” Yeshua. So did I. So did everyone who ever lived. His atoning death was necessary because of OUR sin and was planned before the foundation of the world.
Yeshua’s sacrifice was HIS choice. He said that He laid down His life, no one took it from Him.
@@22grenaYou realize that paul was a persecutor and Jesus confronted him and said “why are you persecuting ME?”. Jesus rightly identified His people as His body whom paul was persecuting and leading to death. Guess what? Paul became an Apostle and wrote most of the new testament. God chose him even though he was killing Christians
Dr Brown says he doesn’t hold a dual covenant theology but then gets mad when Gabe calls modern day Judaism an antichrist religion??
@chrisyoung2179
“Listen to the Rabbi’s” were the instructions that were given.
Matthew 23:1-3
Hebrews 13:17
Deuteronomy 17:8-13
Exodus 18:14-27
2 Chronicles 19:8-11
@@johnmann8659 when they point to Christ, not the modern, post-temple version of the religion created from the tradition of the Pharisees.
@@chrisyoung2179 Matthew 23:1-3 says to listen to the Pharisees.
Temple Before Jesus Returns:
Matthew 24:15-16->
Daniel 9:27->
2 Thessalonians 2:4-8
Temple After Jesus Returns:
Jeremiah 30:18-21
Isaiah 2:2-3
Ezekiel 40:42-47
Zechariah 14:1-5-> Zechariah 14:20-21
2:11:00 is where Dr. Michael brown started to lose regardless of Gabe’s demeanor
It is such an indictment on me, these brothers, and Christianity as a whole, that I clicked this video knowing that I was gonna be entertained by argumentativeness, pettiness and the lack of charity or sensibility that I absolutely KNEW I was gonna see in this debate smh
Is there a way to get a hold of a digital copy of all the Bible references that Dr. Michael Brown read?
I get that they were chosen as a nation during the Old Testament time but what are they exactly chosen for today?
I feel like this never really got answered, they both agreed that Jews will have a revival but what significance is that? Why is that a determining factor? I say this because Dr. Brown writes multiple articles about Israel in a positive light over and over again so it's surprising to see his justification being like this.
Timely and prescient. What does Rev.2:9 & 3:9 mean?
Ruslan, you need to have a mute button for each of the debaters with you. Without it, you're not moderating, you're just accompanying them. There's hardly a better example of this than this debate.
@@aprendiz4 Ruslan, thank you for not having a mute button. You understand the point of a debate and you let them play 90s era bball. You understood the assignment.
😂😂😂
@@RuslanKDjust spam the airhorn effect when they interrupt each other
After watching this debate it made me sad and depressed. What I am feeling after watching this debate from Gabe is hidden anger mixed with some hate and disrespect. We have to realize that we could be wrong and Gabe doesn’t believe he could be and that has tainted his heart. I’m praying for you Gabe.
Arrogance
Stop being in your feelings amd get over it
You dont know what in someone's heart so stop. Doc Brown is a racist who expect us to treat the genocidal Jews in Israel today better than we treat genocidal Gentiles. Doc Brown called Gabe a liar, unethical, dishonest. He compared Gabe to Nazis and of persecuting jews. You're falling for the trap.
@@k3nny235 stop being controlling and angry. Praying for your family
Its so ridiculous that Gabriel is provoking (hes own words) Dr. Brown and then complaining that Dr. Brown is acting provoked, this is so 21st century style of debating.
Gabriel beat Dr Brown on his first debate and he also had to debate the moderator halfway. Closing statement from Dr Brown was pretentious and absurd. He has no right to try to little bro a 40 year old man during a debate.
That was a wild ride that left me with a lot to think about. Genuinely.
Ruslan, thank you for the video. I think you should do better on moderating. I know you feel the zeal for your position but you actually made Dr. Brown to look bad, because it appeared that you were trying to protect/help him where he needed it not.
I can’t believe how childish Gabe is. I held him in high regard until this debate. His lack of humility and self-control is so painful to watch. Where is the fruit of the spirit? His actions are like a 12-year-old. How sad. Maybe he should go to Theos U.
Gabe is a unfortunate representative of Christianity. Bro the moment you said the "Jerry" chant you lost any good faith I had at that point. I don't think you understand the difference between antagonistic and provocative.
I hope Wise Disciple does a debate reaction for this.
Yes, my exact thoughts!
I hope so too.
I was thinking this the whole time. My first thought was that terms should have been defined on the front end which should have been done in opening statements. There were a lot of assumptions and both trying to clarify the entire time so there wasn’t much debate to be but more defending each others character
I agree theologically with Gabe, and i feel like Brown takes this one 65-35. Feel like at some moments Ruslan kinda makes it a 2v1 against Gabe unfortunately…that’s when Gabe loses his cool. both Brown and Ruslan misinterpret Gabe’s “audi-JW” arguement as an personal attack when it’s not, he’s pointing out a belief in an early move away from orthodoxy that it seems brown is taking.
Even early church fathers agreed Jerusalem is the mother of all churches.
There's no such replacement theology in Bible OT or NT.
Salvation is of the jews, not gentiles.
Jesus will return and reign from Sion, Jerusalem, Israel, not other place. No gentiles' place shows God's covenant still belongs to Israel.
The New Jerusalem obviously is the proof. At the end of days all kings of nations will go to honour God on Israel.
Revelation 21:12, 14, 24, 26-27 (KJV) And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
New Covenant Whole Gospel: How many modern Christians cannot honestly answer the questions below?
Who is the King of Israel in John 1:49? Is the King of Israel now the Head of the Church, and are we His Body? Who is the “son” that is the “heir” to the land in Matthew 21:37-43? Why did God allow the Romans to destroy the Old Covenant temple and the Old Covenant city, about 40 years after His Son fulfilled the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34 in blood at Calvary?
What the modern Church needs is a New Covenant Revival (Heb. 9:10) in which members of various denominations are willing to re-examine everything they believe and see if it agrees with the Bible, instead of the traditions of men. We need to be like the Bereans. It will be a battle between our flesh and the Holy Spirit. It will not be easy. If you get mad and upset when someone challenges your man-made Bible doctrines, that is your flesh resisting the truth found in God's Word. Nobody can completely understand the Bible unless they understand the relationship between the Old Covenant given to Moses at Mount Sinai and the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary.
God is not now a "racist". He has extended His love to all races of people through the New Covenant fulfilled by His Son's blood at Calvary. The Apostle Paul warns against using "genealogies" in our faith in 1 Tim. 1:4, and in Titus 3:9. Why? The answer is found in Galatians 3:16-29.
Why did James address his letter to "the twelve tribes", who were his "brethren" in the "faith" in James 1:1-3? Who was James talking to in his letter?
Who fulfilled the "everlasting" covenant of "peace" in Ezekiel 37:26? See Hebrews 13:20 for the answer.
Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ?
(Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30)
The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations?
1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? (See Paul’s interpretation in Galatians 3:8, 3:16.)
2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ?
3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds?
4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh?
5. Who is replacing the word “remnant” in Romans 9:27, with the word “nation”?
6. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers?
7. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"?
8. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost?
9. Based on Hebrews 12:18-24, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.)
10. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?
11. Watch the RUclips video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church.
Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology.
Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:
“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107.
Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323.
John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated…
"...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.”
John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25
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Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.)
What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?
(See what Joshua said about the Old Covenant land promise in Josh. 21:43.)
Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth?
Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups?
Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and is it fulfilled by the blood of Christ at Calvary in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 12:18-24?
Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church, if the New Covenant is “everlasting” in Hebrews 13:20? (See also 2 Thess. 1:7-10) If the New Covenant has made the Old Covenant “obsolete” in Hebrews 8:6-13, why would God go back to the Old Covenant system during a future time period?
Read the recent book "The Rise and Fall of Dispensationalism", by Daniel G. Hummel...
Imagine being married to that dude and having a disagreement. 👀
Interesting that I agree with Gab’s position but in my opinion the disrespect the antagonizing sheeesh.
Thank you Dr. Brown for being a professional.
@ruslan I felt for you. lol
He’s actually single/never married
I think both debaters missed one another. Dr Brown clearly state that Jews without Jesus are not saved but at the same time declared they are still (ethnic Jews) the “people of God. And Mr Gabe state that the Jews who reject Jesus are lost and that you cannot call someone a “people of God” if you reject Jesus. That was the problem.
Romans 11:1-5
@@FoJ-REAPPGod still refers to the Jews as His people because “He calls those things which be not as though they were.” (Romans 4:17)
God foreknows that the national salvation and restoration of Israel will happen, which has been foretold by the Prophets over and over.
Ezekiel 36:23-28; Zechariah 12 & 14; Isaiah 61; Jeremiah 3; Jeremiah 31.
Well, what´s to miss here. Gabe is simply and obviously wrong. Romans 11:28 couldn´t be any clearer -> Enemies for the gospel´s sake but beloved concerning election. Not saved, but still chosen and beloved.
I believe the Jews are God’s chosen people just like the Arabs are Gods chosen people. Just like the Africans are God’s chosen people etc. And I believe accepting Jesus is what creates the difference. HE HAS BROKEN DOWN THE MIDDLE WALL OF PARTITION.
The Jews are G-d's chosen people. G-d never chose any gentile nations to be his chosen people for the covenant.
Gabe is obviously joking in those moments people are writing off as “narcissistic” 😂 Gabe was defending himself pretty well imo, especially when he was not being heard on his explanation of the Dual covenant theology remark. He was pointing out that you cannot say Jews are still chosen without also holding two (2 = dual 😄) covenants. Yes, that is not the definition of THE "Dual Covenant Theology", but the logic still follows; it is inconsistent to say Jews are still chosen and yet there is only one covenant. Both Dr. Brown and Ruslan were unable to come to terms with that in the moment. As well as not being able to objectively see the logic of the “sincere prophets of Baal”, I have grace for Dr. Brown because it’s hard to hear that without taking offense. But what can you say, that’s debate 🤷♂️ blessings to all of you.
Agreed!! Debates are way more enjoyable to watch when you can feel their passion for the position shining through. Sad to see that be discouraged by Ruslan . Political correctness and the need to be so “nice” all the time is secular nonsense seeping into the faith. Early church fathers were not so concerned about offending or taking offense 🤣
100%!!!