It's interesting to see how much drama seems to emerge in Movistar during the major races... seems like a systemic problem rather than an individual problem
Have you watched their doco? With the amount of disfunction in that team, it's amazing that all the riders pitch up at races with their jerseys on the right way round.
It seems so. To terminate the rider who was the only winner of a grand tour stage this year is madness. Yet frankly Lopez probably wants/needs a team where he can be their GC leader. Maybe Astana is ok, but the question is whether he can win a grand tour?
To me, as a cycling fan and not a team sponsor, Mas standing on the podium qualifies as a nice result, but it’s ultimately not as epic or as memorable as Lopez’ stage victory. As for Lopez I seem to find myself in the minority of people who are very sympathetic He had what I consider a fairly extreme but very understandable reaction brought on by someone telling a competitor to stop competing. If I ran a team I’d pick him up as soon as I could.
I think he should not have abondoned but O well, he opted to bail and perhaps he knew it would mean a new day at another team. I work in retail in this season of my life and lots of hourly colleagues choose to bail out dramatically, quitting mid-shift by just leaving their badge and vest and heading out the door. Not my style, I'd give notice, but O well, their choice and they seem to get a kick out of it.
3 года назад+2
total energies - they've got Sagan + elite GC climber, they've got the money
Agreed. It might have been an immature reaction, but He's a fierce competitor and one of the top 10 climbers in the world. I'd pick him up right away (and probably force him to have therapy with a shrink as well :-) )
I think LRs analysis is fair, I think many of the other comments are pretty unfair. Throwing words like 'selfish' etc is very reductionist, the situation certainly isn't that black and white.
I agree, the only way Lopez is wrong is if his family is lying about a made up excuse that Movistar told him not to chase. Because if Movistar really told Lopez not to chase, Movistar are idiots who didn't care about saving third place and abused Lopez outrageously.
@@joelinsb8650 We will never know about the Vuelta this year, but we DO know that Movistar are one of the most dysfunctional and unprofessional groups in sport. That's a given. What surprises me the most is that Lopez actually listened to his team telling him to sit up and throw away his podium ride. It reminds me of Lemond taking similar directions from his team in '85 that cost him the overall win. Lemond was very young and trusting at the time. What's Lopez' excuse? He already knows what he's dealing with.
Lol Carapaz left Movistar for 💰. The Spanish team brought him to Europe when he was literally a nobody. He was in the team for almost 4 years and the 💰 was brought to the table. Not only that, he was negotiating his contract with Ineos but at the same time he was denying any contact with the British squad when he was asked by his team and took part in a competition without the team's approval. Quintana fell short whenever he had the chance to shine and his overall resume riding for Movistar is quite good.
Toxic team? Seems 3 days before Mal abandons in La Vuelta was super happy with the team. The day he won in gamoniteiru he renovated with Movistar for more years. Obiously Movistar does lots of thing wrong a no sense but saying toxic team is unfair.
I would've kept Lopez and let him lead the Giro. Probably it was Lopez who wanted to leave but we can never discount Movistar making Movistar decisions.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Chris Anker is dead... in an accident in Zeebrügge, coliding with a Van and died from the injuries some hours later (info will follow). He is cykel-commentator on Danish TV2 and were out on a training round on the route in order to cover the World champs with Rolf Sorensen, also a danish former rider... He is the most beloved and knowledable sports-commentator in denmark, and everyone like him due to his humor, self-ironi and annekdotes... RIP Chris
I can feel pain for MoviS and Lopez. Lopez told not to push on. Spat dummy. Lost it ( wrong ). Essentially terminated himself. What a torrid situation for both parties. Both put in a no win scenario.
Well, by now very clear that Movistar wants and priority is always to keep a Spaniard rider at the front........Quintana had lo ride the same nightmare. Good move for M A lopez. Bravo ! he knows that won't ride for seconds!
So you support that a rider, if he gets angry, he can quit racing without consequences? If you are working, you get upset and leave at 10am... is not fair that your boss gets angry and may want to fire you? Cmon think guys
there is a new pace in the peloton and quintana can't keep up; and possibly landa as well. also, everyone on BV was performing extraordinarily except landa. makes one wonder.
@@dididubalier2196 They're not threatening to fire him. They have fired him. There could have been other consequences. But I think that'll be good for Lopez. Move a star is a bad team.
Your analysis as always very insightful and filled with sym/emphathy from most angles. Looking forward to your Worlds previews and comments. For the offseason, could you please make a throwback video of Chris Anker Sørensen? May he rest in peace.
Pretty objective point of view! Mistakes were made on both sides, I think, but ultimately it feels like Movistar used up and threw away Lopez. Thanks for showing empathy towards Lopez. I think he let his team down, and he let himself down. I hope he can find a team who will value his talents.
@@alfredogatto6012 not if his contract says something different. If the contract between Movistar and Lopez says Lopez is GC co-leader at the Vuelta then he isn’t paid to ride for others. He should expect the team to ride for him.
Landa has never impressed me after he left Sky / Ineos. After leaving that team, I honestly cannot think of any time I saw him ride for another team mate while in a race.
Let's face it, it's a job at the end of the day. I found myself working for a selfish s41tbag recently, so left on short notice. If Lopez is unhappy with the way he's treated, I see no reason why he shouldn't pull the ripchord.
if every time i had an incident as small as this i quit or got fired i’d be working my 127th job right now. so to your point, yes it’s a job he’s paid to work, but that doesn’t mean that every disagreement with the boss should end in parting ways. Blown way out of proportion by Movistar management imo.
@@andrewkelk8414 you’re absolutely right, we don’t really know the deeper cause for such a dramatic outcome that they ended the contract (and his wife’s tweet sort of says that too that it’s a little more than what we saw on TV) but yeah, i’m just saying that just because he works for them doesn’t mean that the only solution to conflict is to either quit or get fired. But yeah you’re right maybe the incident is bigger than what i perceive it to be. My hunch is that actually no, this is a totally workable conflict, but that Movistar management is overdramatic.
I wish Alpecin would make a move for MAL. They have a record of being flexible and responsive to the goals of their riders and don't have a strong GC favorite as far as I can tell. MAL could slide into that role with Vine as a solid mountain domestique. That's depend on whether Alpecin cares about GC and whether MAL cares about the difference between an official world tour with pro Conti results or a pro conti team with works tour results. After the year Alpecin has had I'd imagine enough sponsor money would be flowing in for them to build up for strong GC challenges next year if they can acquire the right riders.
Lanterne you forgot to mention that there were a lot of rumours about Lopez being told to stop chasing because they wanted to make sure Mas keeps his 2nd in GC. I think Lopez's wife wrote that on some of Mas' social media posts or something.. If that's the case, then the fault is 80% on Movistar..
@@sean7098 Exactly, once Bernal got dropped Movistar should have assumed Mas would dispense with Bernal on his own even if Bernal caught back up plus had a good time trial. And even if Lopez caught Mas on this stage and took second away from Mas in the time trial (very unlikely) Movistar should have been fine with that.
Thanks for your very even handed analysis of the situation. I must admit I was surprised when MAL signed for Movistar. MAL has never been famous for his composure, pairing him up with the tempestuous team management it was a matter of time before there was an explosion. If the early reports of him returning to Astana are true then MAL will land on his feet. He will be under pressure to deliver early results to prove the critics wrong. If Astana are clever they will make the most of MAL’s renewed motivation.
Yes, yes and yes. So happy to see that he’s gone from the most racist and anti South American (Colombia) team ever in professional cycling. A team with a director sportif who’s an old man, who doesn’t understand what’s to be a cyclist in the modern era.
I'm impressed with Ineos. Under Brailsford it seems largely free from intra-team conflict. The hierarchy seems fluid with riders out of contention not objecting to domestique duties. At least that's the front presented.
Helpful to have some background of how much Lopez had been working during the race. Thanks for that. I hadn't previously understood that wait-for-Rojas really didn't seem to make sense for Lopez to close the gap to the lead group. That said, the comparison to Simone Biles makes no sense. If she doesn't trust herself to stick landings (can't keep track of her angle when spinning in the air), she's a danger to herself and is no good to her team. The decision that was best for her safety and the team's performance was for her to pull out of that competition. Not so with Lopez; staying in the race wasn't a risk to himself or a detriment to his team.
A generous analysis of a crazy situation, M A L hopefully, will be picked up by a team that will appreciate his skills. It still seems like we don't know the whole story, but bad feelings have closed the door on negotiations, clearly...on both sides.
It's hard to believe that Movistar would have discouraged Lopez from chasing all out to try to save third place and possibly help Mas in the finish, and hard to believe Movistar would prefer some other option such as Lopez waiting for a teammate trailing way back "in another suburb of Spain." What downside to Lopez chasing all out, pulling Bernal back up, worried that Bernal could threaten Mas's second place, no way. For me the only issue is whether Movistar, actually told Lopez not to chase, or whether Lopez misunderstood, because if Movistar did that, Lopez should have quit them. He still could have finished the stage and then quit the race and the team that night to make his point and make a better impression. He is going to kick some Movistar butt next year on his new team.
What could Lopez achieve by keep pulling? He isn't going to get back to the group in front if the gap is only growing (slowly) even when he's pulling. And he can't just pace for 40-50km on his own, which he likely might have had to. Who else was going to help pace in that group? Bernal after Yates? Kruiswijk after Roglic? It was clear that no one was really interesting in pacing. So it might be smarter to let him drop and lose some extra time (which he'd likely lose anyway) and have others pacing for him eventually, rather than cook himself with a meaningless effort that might cause him extra trouble the next day defending his remaining top 10 spot in the ITT.
Question. If it was a contract - under what particular clause was the breach cited substantiating a unilateral termination ? Plenty of rider DNF events; I doubt that alone is specific legal grounds.
The pain of training and doing what they do every stage is unbeliavable, the mental strengh to not quit every bad day is a big variable, easy to make an opinion from home. Either way, bad press for both but a great new that a talented rider leaves Movistar
In the situation Lopez was in, a minute behind 40km from the finish and slowly losing time when pulling, while no one else wanted to pull, stopping and falling back was the only good decision left. He can't keep pacing for 40km and it seemed like he was always going to drop back to the group(s) behind anyway. However if he kept pacing he'd sap his strength for the day after for no gain, while if he stopped pacing he could keep something for the ITT to defend his remaining top 10 spot.
This stands out in contrast to some other mental health stories in sport recently, especially Tom Dumoulin and Naomi Osaka. To me, it shows a complete lack of understanding of the pressure the rider is under. I understand that he got off the bike after being shouted at relentlessly from the team car. And it's not like Movistar has the palmares in recent years to justify calling anyone weak. It's quite easy and common for management to make a situation untenable and then chalk up a split to someone 'not wanting to be here'.
Thanks, it helped my opinion a lot after you put together all Lopez's hard work. I'd let his stepping off the bike overshadow all of that. From what you showed it certainly didn't look like Lopez wasn't a full team player although his statement seems to point to him being super frustrated and therefore quit the race. I'm waiting for the real story...
Riders are programmed to be competitive beasts - take that away and it's understandable there will be the occasional moment of frustration. Lopez was not a pure domestique working for others, he was third on GC and the riders in his group posed no threat to Mas. Let the guy ride. Not a great look to pull out but he gets some sympathy from me.
No one analyzes events like this in depth like you do. Thank you But it is still not enough. We don’t know the facts, still. Will some journalist not go to Lopez, to his wife. to his father I’m law, find the facts, their side of the story, and print the facts? Get out of the office, off the computer, actually go talk to people? That to me wd be a fun job. How things used to be done. Wd be exciting. Get a scoop. You do weigh the various facts better than anyone else, but it is like accountants work. We need an investigative reporter in our sport cycling. A gumshoe detective. And several of them. For there are so many cycling stories out there that hard investigative work wd find and shine a light on.
Movistar being Movistar. I feel like they play checkers when everyone else plays chess Though why Lopez didnt just chase on and abandoned is a bit of a mystery.
Lopez was in third spot. Something must have really upset him for him to decide to abandon. I'll support Lopez. Some team next year are going to enjoy his support in the big tours. Hopefully it's DuMoulin's.
Correct me if I'm wrong but my reading of the affair is that Lopez was already furious with himself for missing the break, so when his boss told him he couldn't chase in case it jeopardised teammate Mas's position, it pushed him over the edge and he went into "blind fury" mode and quit in total rage.
Great analysis. Some of the media from movistar team managers(?) in the following days was pretty caustic, unnecessarily so. They had a right to be frustrated but it felt like they threw him under the bus at that point, instead of keeping it in house and backing him in for the next one. (Not that Lopez's wife was being helpful either!) + who knows what else was going on within the team.
I absolutely love the Vontae Davis reference, that's out of left field 😄! I think Lopez dealt badly in situation and now, how can they continue with how he spoke subsequently? However he is a fantastic rider and will do a reverse Carapaz where every time a Movistar rider attacks he'll close down just to f with them! Lol
back from the future here just watching least expected day on Netflix and it does appear that team directors also didn't help and pushed superman mentally over the edge and telling him it's done and then to make it worse later making him apologise in front of the team like a naughty schoolboy. tricky situation but moviestar didn't handle it well.
Moviestar is a hot mess. In such a dysfunctional environment it’s hard to tell who was more to blame. Lopez is a great but uneven climber even when under no team restraints. He’d be more valuable if he literally would do anything to help his team leader win. The Movistar actions to terminate Lopez obviously had Valverde’s blessing. Team sponsors have a lot to say as well. Comparing Lopez to Biles is just ridiculous - totally different situations.
Thanks for including Landa behaviour and other sports stars in this analysis. All examples just show sports professionals are humans and not robots. You could add Graeme Swann retiring half way through the 2013-14 Ashes as another example of plausibly seriously letting his teammates down. On a similar note if a top player in a team refuses to play/travel because of Covid restrictions should they be pilloried/penalised.
GREAT Video and Analysis … Lopez is a volatile personality as illustrated by a number of events over the years in the pro peloton; remember he got his nickname for standing up to a group of guys who were trying to rob him at knifepoint - I was always taught to give up the wallet b/c it’s not worth your life but not MAL which is why he is Superman and I’m not). He simply had a really bad moment. After 3 weeks of battling his podium slipped away, he felt unsupported and made a HORRIBLE decision. Movistar is getting this reputation of not supporting their South American riders in the same manner they support their Spanish riders. I don’t know if that’s true or fair but that’s the perception and the reaction of team Lopez back in Colombia seems to reflect and feed on that narrative. Superman clearly ran into some kryptonite on stage 20 but he will bounce back and soar to new heights.
Would be interesting to analyze the teams who could utilize a rider like Lopez. With a fresh gold medal and a chip on the shoulder he could be a wonderful asset to the right world tour team
Very balanced video as ever. Previously thought his actions were really bad. But can see another viewpoint here. I think he should still have finished the stage and then binned it though - that way he makes his point about Movistar without looking petulant and hot headed. Would have made a great end to Series 3 - #ifonly
@@OakleafOrganic I agree, they are the best. They seem to fit in great everywhere except movistar. Something is obviously up with the management if they pissed off 3 of the top in just a few years.
@@DNBMP764 what a joke you are, "the best"??? Based on what?? If you imply that Carapaz and Amador left the team also due to disputes or issues with the team you'd better gather information in order to back your clueless claims.
Just watched the 2019 and 2020 Movistar Netflix seasons one and two - and there is Landa's image right at the end, ready for action in 2021.... well season three will sure be "interesting"! For me they were right to terminate Landa's contract. What happens when he has another bad day and feels things are unjustified? He just gets off the bike again? No way they can go forward with such a lack of trust. And while acknowledging that Netflix want to dramatise the situation to make a good series, not in one clip on the team bus or in the restaurant did the team look relaxed or in harmony. Not exactly a breeding ground for success and management have to take responsibility for that. And while the management did show some kinds of encouragement, most of the time they were just shouting out and criticising the riders. Having just said all that, it will be interesting to see how Mas does in 2022. He sure looks like he's improving by the race. And will he be sole leader now? Assuming so.
This assessment is both accurate and fair; South American riders, particularly Colombian riders, should stay far far away from movistar ; exhibit #1 - Nairo Qunitana .
IMHO, the marriage between Lopez and Movistar was already on the rocks and Lopez pushed it over the cliff. I also think Lopez was a good teammate as he pulled over and over for Mas. But there is a hierarchy at Movistar and Mas has been chosen to be the heir to the Valverde throne. Methinks we have seen this story before at Movistar.
the difference between the reaction to Biles and Lopez can obviously only be explained by sexism and racism, something really needs to change in sport!
1. this year's vuelta was great, 2. I agree with vast majority of what you said 3. I do support Biles, but not Lopez - I don't want to speculate about the former, but Lopez just came across as a crybaby. Again: I am in support of most of what you said in this material and I appreciate the position he was in, but Lopez abandoning was just about the worst thing he could have done. Hope he bounces back from this.
To me, this issue is moot as the next day was the time trial. Lopez can't time trial as seen in the 2020 TdF where he fell from 3rd place to 6th place (and passed by teammates Landa and Mas and by 3rd placer winner, Ritchie Porte) on the last day's time trial. You have to hold your own place in a time trial, and Lopez can't pull it off. He was never going to hold on to a third place. Would he have risked Mas' second place? That's the issue to me.
Miguel Angel Lopez is the best cyclist at the hardest stages, of course I want to keep him at Movistar. His time trail is probably to poor to win a grand tour. But his climbing capability is the best in the whole tour right now. I understand MAL furious after losing his podium competition after stage 20. Movistar should try to work it out. Miguel Angel Lopez is this generation of Jose maria Jimenez.
@@dididubalier2196 compared with the rest of Movistar’s roster? 🤣🤣 the only riders with actual world tour wins are Lopez and Valverde. 2nd place doesn’t count.
Movistar is an unprofessional Spanish team that favors only Spanish riders like Valverde and Mas, while riders of other nationalities, mainly South Americans who speak Spanish, like Quintana, Carapaz and Lopez, are kept only as domestiques for the main Spanish guys. That's why Sky/Ineos and Deceunink Quickstep are the best teams, because they give chances to their best riders, no matter what their background is.
I am a little concerned about what may be really going on in Camp Movistar. I have a young First year pro cyclist I am closely following on this team and he is not from Spain.
You can't use Simone Biles as a comparison. If you lose your spatial awareness as a gymnast - it is dangerous. Not just a case of not performing but putting yourself at risk of injury. As for Lopez : when is there ever Movistar without drama???
Lopez was never going to close that gap with either Mader or Pidcock pulling. Sit up and wait or wreck himself on a 60k solo effort, Lopez had a pretty good chance of keeping his fifth place overall as he had five minutes on Mader. Saw the same thing with Evenepoel in the Giro when he got dropped and just mentally quit on the stage. Huge amount of pressure and he simply cracked under it, same as Lopez. Landa to me is different. I only watched parts of the Vuelta and didn't watch them with Landa in mind. That said did Landa ever do any work for the team once he was out of GC contention? My impression it was more like he came in as a leader, stayed for a potential stage win, and then my hip hurts and I'm not at 100 percent so going home. If you're Roglic you can be that selfish and no one is going to expect anything but that. Good luck, Vingegaard. I'm going home. Nobody bats an eye. Landa though isn't Roglic.
Look, this all comes down as to Moviestar not wanting Lopez in second place and Mass in third in the podium. Lopez was told not to bridge that gap which at the time was only 45sec. Then no one knows what happened or what Lopez was debating in his head when he was told that. Then the camera does not go back or showed that group again until it was 3 and half minutes behind and when Lopez quit by then it was beyond 5 minutes. This tells me that Lopez was confused or surprised at the orders of Movistar and by the time he reacted it was to late or sawer to accept those orders and then there was the result . Movistar did not want Lopez to bridge gap and attack because he would have taken Mass's second place in the GC and Movistar would have preferred a Spaniard at the top of their team and not a Colombian. Why else would they have given that order???.
So now movistar has to chase carapaz and lopez every single time?
The scenes when Movistar chase Carapaz and Lopez who are 69th and 45th on GC
😂🤣😅😷 inMovistarr is a joke
they're also chasing Quintana!
Lol that would make some awesome content.
No South American may win! 🤪
Movistar didnt fire Lopez.
Lopez fired Movistar.
Movistar's drama never fails to disappoint
Its amazing how much you can fuck up :D
Movistar is a gift that keeps on giving
They should consider doing a docuseries on Netflix
@@iduaify yes they should!
Yes😊
It's interesting to see how much drama seems to emerge in Movistar during the major races... seems like a systemic problem rather than an individual problem
Have you watched their doco? With the amount of disfunction in that team, it's amazing that all the riders pitch up at races with their jerseys on the right way round.
@@GDF07 yes that team is seriously messed up
@@GDF07 What documentary? I'd definitely be interested
It seems so. To terminate the rider who was the only winner of a grand tour stage this year is madness. Yet frankly Lopez probably wants/needs a team where he can be their GC leader. Maybe Astana is ok, but the question is whether he can win a grand tour?
They like drama because they make more money from the documentary than they win in prize money... it's the business model
Thanks, Lopez will be happier in another team with less drama and a better team and management culture - I wish him well.
To me, as a cycling fan and not a team sponsor, Mas standing on the podium qualifies as a nice result, but it’s ultimately not as epic or as memorable as Lopez’ stage victory. As for Lopez I seem to find myself in the minority of people who are very sympathetic He had what I consider a fairly extreme but very understandable reaction brought on by someone telling a competitor to stop competing. If I ran a team I’d pick him up as soon as I could.
I think he should not have abondoned but O well, he opted to bail and perhaps he knew it would mean a new day at another team. I work in retail in this season of my life and lots of hourly colleagues choose to bail out dramatically, quitting mid-shift by just leaving their badge and vest and heading out the door. Not my style, I'd give notice, but O well, their choice and they seem to get a kick out of it.
total energies - they've got Sagan + elite GC climber, they've got the money
@ That would be really nice from a racing standpoint, for sure
Agreed. It might have been an immature reaction, but He's a fierce competitor and one of the top 10 climbers in the world. I'd pick him up right away (and probably force him to have therapy with a shrink as well :-) )
@@dmorenol01 definitely, call it a performance counselor
I think LRs analysis is fair, I think many of the other comments are pretty unfair. Throwing words like 'selfish' etc is very reductionist, the situation certainly isn't that black and white.
this, thank you
I agree, the only way Lopez is wrong is if his family is lying about a made up excuse that Movistar told him not to chase. Because if Movistar really told Lopez not to chase, Movistar are idiots who didn't care about saving third place and abused Lopez outrageously.
@@joelinsb8650 We will never know about the Vuelta this year, but we DO know that Movistar are one of the most dysfunctional and unprofessional groups in sport. That's a given. What surprises me the most is that Lopez actually listened to his team telling him to sit up and throw away his podium ride. It reminds me of Lemond taking similar directions from his team in '85 that cost him the overall win. Lemond was very young and trusting at the time. What's Lopez' excuse? He already knows what he's dealing with.
I think it was unprofessional . He is getting paid a lot of money and he could signal disapproval in other ways
Carapaz and Quintana left that toxic team. Good for Lopez
Movie star completely mismanaged Gwen Quintana's career.
Lol Carapaz left Movistar for 💰. The Spanish team brought him to Europe when he was literally a nobody. He was in the team for almost 4 years and the 💰 was brought to the table. Not only that, he was negotiating his contract with Ineos but at the same time he was denying any contact with the British squad when he was asked by his team and took part in a competition without the team's approval. Quintana fell short whenever he had the chance to shine and his overall resume riding for Movistar is quite good.
Toxic team? Seems 3 days before Mal abandons in La Vuelta was super happy with the team. The day he won in gamoniteiru he renovated with Movistar for more years. Obiously Movistar does lots of thing wrong a no sense but saying toxic team is unfair.
I would've kept Lopez and let him lead the Giro. Probably it was Lopez who wanted to leave but we can never discount Movistar making Movistar decisions.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Chris Anker is dead... in an accident in Zeebrügge, coliding with a Van and died from the injuries some hours later (info will follow). He is cykel-commentator on Danish TV2 and were out on a training round on the route in order to cover the World champs with Rolf Sorensen, also a danish former rider... He is the most beloved and knowledable sports-commentator in denmark, and everyone like him due to his humor, self-ironi and annekdotes... RIP Chris
Just saw this. So sad. Rest in Peace Chris.
RIP. Cycling is dangerous 🙏
I can feel pain for MoviS and Lopez. Lopez told not to push on. Spat dummy. Lost it ( wrong ). Essentially terminated himself. What a torrid situation for both parties. Both put in a no win scenario.
They should make a team of every South American who left moviestar. Would make a good team.😜
Really good and balanced video. It changed my mind. Well done mate 👍🏼
Well, by now very clear that Movistar wants and priority is always to keep a Spaniard rider at the front........Quintana had lo ride the same nightmare. Good move for M A lopez. Bravo ! he knows that won't ride for seconds!
So you support that a rider, if he gets angry, he can quit racing without consequences?
If you are working, you get upset and leave at 10am... is not fair that your boss gets angry and may want to fire you?
Cmon think guys
there is a new pace in the peloton and quintana can't keep up; and possibly landa as well. also, everyone on BV was performing extraordinarily except landa. makes one wonder.
@@dididubalier2196 They're not threatening to fire him. They have fired him. There could have been other consequences. But I think that'll be good for Lopez. Move a star is a bad team.
Your analysis as always very insightful and filled with sym/emphathy from most angles. Looking forward to your Worlds previews and comments.
For the offseason, could you please make a throwback video of Chris Anker Sørensen? May he rest in peace.
Pretty objective point of view! Mistakes were made on both sides, I think, but ultimately it feels like Movistar used up and threw away Lopez. Thanks for showing empathy towards Lopez. I think he let his team down, and he let himself down. I hope he can find a team who will value his talents.
Fair for Lopez’s end, why would he be working for a team that doesn’t work for him?
For example because he is paid for it
@@alfredogatto6012 not if his contract says something different. If the contract between Movistar and Lopez says Lopez is GC co-leader at the Vuelta then he isn’t paid to ride for others. He should expect the team to ride for him.
Movistar's income from Netflix is probably more than what they get from winning races, so this drama is perfect
“Probably”
I don't think the team comes off very well in the Netflix series. I know it has caused me to lose respect for Alejandro Valverde.
@@jackhammer111 how so?
Thats what i thought After seeing the series🤣🤣
@@jackhammer111 why he has gained my respect After seeing the series
They gotta do something to create good story lines for the Netflix show.
😆 good point
@@OakleafOrganic Apparently there's no season 3 😭
@@GDF07 😆 perhaps that will change
Looking forward to that
@@GDF07 that was announced before the team started to fuck shit up. Netflix will have slid back in now
Landa has never impressed me after he left Sky / Ineos. After leaving that team, I honestly cannot think of any time I saw him ride for another team mate while in a race.
Sigo muy atentos tus comentarios. Mi inglés no es muy avanzado pero entiendo tus analizas. Gracias por tu trabajo. Saludos de Chile.
Let's face it, it's a job at the end of the day. I found myself working for a selfish s41tbag recently, so left on short notice. If Lopez is unhappy with the way he's treated, I see no reason why he shouldn't pull the ripchord.
if every time i had an incident as small as this i quit or got fired i’d be working my 127th job right now. so to your point, yes it’s a job he’s paid to work, but that doesn’t mean that every disagreement with the boss should end in parting ways. Blown way out of proportion by Movistar management imo.
@@johnnysecular, who knows what goes on in the team bus. The camera only shows a tiny part of team life.
@@andrewkelk8414 you’re absolutely right, we don’t really know the deeper cause for such a dramatic outcome that they ended the contract (and his wife’s tweet sort of says that too that it’s a little more than what we saw on TV) but yeah, i’m just saying that just because he works for them doesn’t mean that the only solution to conflict is to either quit or get fired. But yeah you’re right maybe the incident is bigger than what i perceive it to be. My hunch is that actually no, this is a totally workable conflict, but that Movistar management is overdramatic.
@@johnnysecular To be fair it's not a small incident to abandon on the last stage of a grand tour. This was essentially the last stage.
@@jackhammer111 ok true that
Sad topic, but you made a very detailed analasys about it. I hope he goes to a team where he will get some freedom.
"In this video which you will like"
- "Yes sir I will!"
It's like LR is in my brain.... Heard that line, chuckled, and smashed the like button
I mean, it's so deadpan funny that of course I had to like it.
Lopez seems to want to ride in a properly functioning cycling team, so it makes sense that he doesn't fit in the Movistar culture.
Nice Jedi move 👋 it worked I liked the video
It's hard to blame Lopez, Movistar has made so many bonehead decisions this year that he would be best to move on. All pro-managers are not the same.
I wish Alpecin would make a move for MAL. They have a record of being flexible and responsive to the goals of their riders and don't have a strong GC favorite as far as I can tell. MAL could slide into that role with Vine as a solid mountain domestique.
That's depend on whether Alpecin cares about GC and whether MAL cares about the difference between an official world tour with pro Conti results or a pro conti team with works tour results. After the year Alpecin has had I'd imagine enough sponsor money would be flowing in for them to build up for strong GC challenges next year if they can acquire the right riders.
Wanty Group for me.
Lanterne you forgot to mention that there were a lot of rumours about Lopez being told to stop chasing because they wanted to make sure Mas keeps his 2nd in GC. I think Lopez's wife wrote that on some of Mas' social media posts or something..
If that's the case, then the fault is 80% on Movistar..
I don’t think Movistar were worried about Bernal
@@sean7098 Exactly, once Bernal got dropped Movistar should have assumed Mas would dispense with Bernal on his own even if Bernal caught back up plus had a good time trial. And even if Lopez caught Mas on this stage and took second away from Mas in the time trial (very unlikely) Movistar should have been fine with that.
Lopez had just finished chasing down an attack by Ineos and couldn't recover fast enough to go with the move.
Thanks for your very even handed analysis of the situation. I must admit I was surprised when MAL signed for Movistar. MAL has never been famous for his composure, pairing him up with the tempestuous team management it was a matter of time before there was an explosion.
If the early reports of him returning to Astana are true then MAL will land on his feet. He will be under pressure to deliver early results to prove the critics wrong. If Astana are clever they will make the most of MAL’s renewed motivation.
Yes, yes and yes. So happy to see that he’s gone from the most racist and anti South American (Colombia) team ever in professional cycling. A team with a director sportif who’s an old man, who doesn’t understand what’s to be a cyclist in the modern era.
It's always about what have you done for me lately. Something is inherently wrong inside that team. Lopez should consider himself lucky to get out.
Great breakdown on what went on there! Thanks mate 👌🏻😍
"In this video, which you will like down below"
Yes sir
brilliant, thorough, exceptionally well presented. thanks for this evaluation
I'm impressed with Ineos. Under Brailsford it seems largely free from intra-team conflict. The hierarchy seems fluid with riders out of contention not objecting to domestique duties. At least that's the front presented.
That's because they get paid like the New York Yankees
As usual, superb analysis and presentation from Lanterne Rouge, a true Campeon del Mundo!
easy to judge from a comfort home when your heart rate not thru the roof
Helpful to have some background of how much Lopez had been working during the race. Thanks for that.
I hadn't previously understood that wait-for-Rojas really didn't seem to make sense for Lopez to close the gap to the lead group.
That said, the comparison to Simone Biles makes no sense. If she doesn't trust herself to stick landings (can't keep track of her angle when spinning in the air), she's a danger to herself and is no good to her team. The decision that was best for her safety and the team's performance was for her to pull out of that competition. Not so with Lopez; staying in the race wasn't a risk to himself or a detriment to his team.
“You will like down below” 😂. Yes boss
You made a very good point about Landa. Same behavior, but no drama. Not externally at least.
Well done coverage. Lopez is excellent and is not being appreciated.
A generous analysis of a crazy situation, M A L hopefully, will be picked up by a team that will appreciate his skills. It still seems like we don't know the whole story, but bad feelings have closed the door on negotiations, clearly...on both sides.
It's hard to believe that Movistar would have discouraged Lopez from chasing all out to try to save third place and possibly help Mas in the finish, and hard to believe Movistar would prefer some other option such as Lopez waiting for a teammate trailing way back "in another suburb of Spain." What downside to Lopez chasing all out, pulling Bernal back up, worried that Bernal could threaten Mas's second place, no way. For me the only issue is whether Movistar, actually told Lopez not to chase, or whether Lopez misunderstood, because if Movistar did that, Lopez should have quit them. He still could have finished the stage and then quit the race and the team that night to make his point and make a better impression. He is going to kick some Movistar butt next year on his new team.
What could Lopez achieve by keep pulling? He isn't going to get back to the group in front if the gap is only growing (slowly) even when he's pulling. And he can't just pace for 40-50km on his own, which he likely might have had to. Who else was going to help pace in that group? Bernal after Yates? Kruiswijk after Roglic? It was clear that no one was really interesting in pacing. So it might be smarter to let him drop and lose some extra time (which he'd likely lose anyway) and have others pacing for him eventually, rather than cook himself with a meaningless effort that might cause him extra trouble the next day defending his remaining top 10 spot in the ITT.
Why is it hard for you to believe? Seems pretty obvious now, just as it seemed obvious then.
Question. If it was a contract - under what particular clause was the breach cited substantiating a unilateral termination ? Plenty of rider DNF events; I doubt that alone is specific legal grounds.
The pain of training and doing what they do every stage is unbeliavable, the mental strengh to not quit every bad day is a big variable, easy to make an opinion from home. Either way, bad press for both but a great new that a talented rider leaves Movistar
everyone judging from their mighty high ground
Yes. I will like below. Thanks!
Good summary--good insight thanx!
In the situation Lopez was in, a minute behind 40km from the finish and slowly losing time when pulling, while no one else wanted to pull, stopping and falling back was the only good decision left. He can't keep pacing for 40km and it seemed like he was always going to drop back to the group(s) behind anyway. However if he kept pacing he'd sap his strength for the day after for no gain, while if he stopped pacing he could keep something for the ITT to defend his remaining top 10 spot.
+1...
This stands out in contrast to some other mental health stories in sport recently, especially Tom Dumoulin and Naomi Osaka. To me, it shows a complete lack of understanding of the pressure the rider is under. I understand that he got off the bike after being shouted at relentlessly from the team car. And it's not like Movistar has the palmares in recent years to justify calling anyone weak.
It's quite easy and common for management to make a situation untenable and then chalk up a split to someone 'not wanting to be here'.
Completely agree Tim
Thanks, it helped my opinion a lot after you put together all Lopez's hard work. I'd let his stepping off the bike overshadow all of that. From what you showed it certainly didn't look like Lopez wasn't a full team player although his statement seems to point to him being super frustrated and therefore quit the race. I'm waiting for the real story...
Riders are programmed to be competitive beasts - take that away and it's understandable there will be the occasional moment of frustration. Lopez was not a pure domestique working for others, he was third on GC and the riders in his group posed no threat to Mas. Let the guy ride. Not a great look to pull out but he gets some sympathy from me.
No one analyzes events like this in depth like you do. Thank you
But it is still not enough. We don’t know the facts, still.
Will some journalist not go to Lopez, to his wife. to his father I’m law, find the facts, their side of the story, and print the facts? Get out of the office, off the computer, actually go talk to people? That to me wd be a fun job. How things used to be done. Wd be exciting. Get a scoop. You do weigh the various facts better than anyone else, but it is like accountants work. We need an investigative reporter in our sport cycling. A gumshoe detective.
And several of them. For there are so many cycling stories out there that hard investigative work wd find and shine a light on.
Movistar being Movistar. I feel like they play checkers when everyone else plays chess
Though why Lopez didnt just chase on and abandoned is a bit of a mystery.
Lopez was in third spot. Something must have really upset him for him to decide to abandon. I'll support Lopez. Some team next year are going to enjoy his support in the big tours.
Hopefully it's DuMoulin's.
Very nuanced analysis. Thanks
Correct me if I'm wrong but my reading of the affair is that Lopez was already furious with himself for missing the break, so when his boss told him he couldn't chase in case it jeopardised teammate Mas's position, it pushed him over the edge and he went into "blind fury" mode and quit in total rage.
Great analysis.
Some of the media from movistar team managers(?) in the following days was pretty caustic, unnecessarily so. They had a right to be frustrated but it felt like they threw him under the bus at that point, instead of keeping it in house and backing him in for the next one. (Not that Lopez's wife was being helpful either!)
+ who knows what else was going on within the team.
I absolutely love the Vontae Davis reference, that's out of left field 😄!
I think Lopez dealt badly in situation and now, how can they continue with how he spoke subsequently? However he is a fantastic rider and will do a reverse Carapaz where every time a Movistar rider attacks he'll close down just to f with them! Lol
Another very recent comparison could be with Maverick Vinales not finishing his last race with Yamaha this year and having his contract terminated.
I think this is fair.
How come there was no LR videos on the Tour of Britain which was absolutely brilliant this year?
back from the future here just watching least expected day on Netflix and it does appear that team directors also didn't help and pushed superman mentally over the edge and telling him it's done and then to make it worse later making him apologise in front of the team like a naughty schoolboy. tricky situation but moviestar didn't handle it well.
Can’t wait for the last expected day version of the events
Does Movistar even want to win one of the grand tours.
Moviestar is a hot mess. In such a dysfunctional environment it’s hard to tell who was more to blame. Lopez is a great but uneven climber even when under no team restraints. He’d be more valuable if he literally would do anything to help his team leader win. The Movistar actions to terminate Lopez obviously had Valverde’s blessing. Team sponsors have a lot to say as well. Comparing Lopez to Biles is just ridiculous - totally different situations.
agree biles comparison is bonkers
Amazing Vontae Davis reference
Thanks for including Landa behaviour and other sports stars in this analysis. All examples just show sports professionals are humans and not robots. You could add Graeme Swann retiring half way through the 2013-14 Ashes as another example of plausibly seriously letting his teammates down. On a similar note if a top player in a team refuses to play/travel because of Covid restrictions should they be pilloried/penalised.
GREAT Video and Analysis … Lopez is a volatile personality as illustrated by a number of events over the years in the pro peloton; remember he got his nickname for standing up to a group of guys who were trying to rob him at knifepoint - I was always taught to give up the wallet b/c it’s not worth your life but not MAL which is why he is Superman and I’m not). He simply had a really bad moment. After 3 weeks of battling his podium slipped away, he felt unsupported and made a HORRIBLE decision. Movistar is getting this reputation of not supporting their South American riders in the same manner they support their Spanish riders. I don’t know if that’s true or fair but that’s the perception and the reaction of team Lopez back in Colombia seems to reflect and feed on that narrative. Superman clearly ran into some kryptonite on stage 20 but he will bounce back and soar to new heights.
Would be interesting to analyze the teams who could utilize a rider like Lopez. With a fresh gold medal and a chip on the shoulder he could be a wonderful asset to the right world tour team
Waiting for the season 3 of their netflix series.
Very balanced video as ever. Previously thought his actions were really bad. But can see another viewpoint here. I think he should still have finished the stage and then binned it though - that way he makes his point about Movistar without looking petulant and hot headed.
Would have made a great end to Series 3 - #ifonly
Given the recent history of Movistar - Quintana, Carapaz, now Lopez, I'm ready to assume Movistar management was at least partly to blame...
No South American should sign with movistar
S. Americans should be able to ride wherever they like withiut2 being blackballed. They're frequently the best riders.
@@OakleafOrganic I agree, they are the best. They seem to fit in great everywhere except movistar. Something is obviously up with the management if they pissed off 3 of the top in just a few years.
@@DNBMP764 perhaps the issue goes beyond the management.
@@DNBMP764 what a joke you are, "the best"??? Based on what?? If you imply that Carapaz and Amador left the team also due to disputes or issues with the team you'd better gather information in order to back your clueless claims.
@@mlgl9728 whoa dude, taking this a little personal? Don't forget about quintana.
Just watched the 2019 and 2020 Movistar Netflix seasons one and two - and there is Landa's image right at the end, ready for action in 2021.... well season three will sure be "interesting"!
For me they were right to terminate Landa's contract. What happens when he has another bad day and feels things are unjustified? He just gets off the bike again? No way they can go forward with such a lack of trust.
And while acknowledging that Netflix want to dramatise the situation to make a good series, not in one clip on the team bus or in the restaurant did the team look relaxed or in harmony. Not exactly a breeding ground for success and management have to take responsibility for that. And while the management did show some kinds of encouragement, most of the time they were just shouting out and criticising the riders.
Having just said all that, it will be interesting to see how Mas does in 2022. He sure looks like he's improving by the race. And will he be sole leader now? Assuming so.
This assessment is both accurate and fair; South American riders, particularly Colombian riders, should stay far far away from movistar ; exhibit #1 - Nairo Qunitana .
Reminded me of Schumacher and Barrichello days
great work!
IMHO, the marriage between Lopez and Movistar was already on the rocks and Lopez pushed it over the cliff. I also think Lopez was a good teammate as he pulled over and over for Mas. But there is a hierarchy at Movistar and Mas has been chosen to be the heir to the Valverde throne. Methinks we have seen this story before at Movistar.
Movistar is a sh*t team but Miguel was extremely unprofessional with that. Bad points for both.
I understand we're he coming from. Look at some of the team tactics Movie star has made this year very quitenable
Quintana left MS Team for the same reasons, happy for M.Angel Lopez , need a better Team :) with better rules inside the team.
Lol i was like what Frankfurt Eschborn recap? i´ll ride it tomorrow morning how can ther ebe a recap already?
the difference between the reaction to Biles and Lopez can obviously only be explained by sexism and racism, something really needs to change in sport!
1. this year's vuelta was great, 2. I agree with vast majority of what you said 3. I do support Biles, but not Lopez - I don't want to speculate about the former, but Lopez just came across as a crybaby. Again: I am in support of most of what you said in this material and I appreciate the position he was in, but Lopez abandoning was just about the worst thing he could have done. Hope he bounces back from this.
To me, this issue is moot as the next day was the time trial. Lopez can't time trial as seen in the 2020 TdF where he fell from 3rd place to 6th place (and passed by teammates Landa and Mas and by 3rd placer winner, Ritchie Porte) on the last day's time trial. You have to hold your own place in a time trial, and Lopez can't pull it off. He was never going to hold on to a third place. Would he have risked Mas' second place? That's the issue to me.
Hello? Hello? Is that the Ineos team office? My name is Miguel ...........
I felt strangely obligated to like the video. ("In this video, which you WILL like below...")
Not fun, but looking forward to seeing Lopez somewhere other than Astana and Movistar.
Lopez is a great rider and will be snapped up by many other teams who will be lucky to get such a top quality rider.
Whoever gets Lopez is extremely blessed. Incredible teammate.
Thanks...Peace
Miguel Angel Lopez is the best cyclist at the hardest stages, of course I want to keep him at Movistar.
His time trail is probably to poor to win a grand tour. But his climbing capability is the best in the whole tour right now.
I understand MAL furious after losing his podium competition after stage 20.
Movistar should try to work it out. Miguel Angel Lopez is this generation of Jose maria Jimenez.
He is so good that he won that stage and minor Mount Ventoux. In the hole year. Definitely not the best.
@@dididubalier2196 compared with the rest of Movistar’s roster? 🤣🤣 the only riders with actual world tour wins are Lopez and Valverde. 2nd place doesn’t count.
Movistar is an unprofessional Spanish team that favors only Spanish riders like Valverde and Mas, while riders of other nationalities, mainly South Americans who speak Spanish, like Quintana, Carapaz and Lopez, are kept only as domestiques for the main Spanish guys. That's why Sky/Ineos and Deceunink Quickstep are the best teams, because they give chances to their best riders, no matter what their background is.
I am a little concerned about what may be really going on in Camp Movistar. I have a young First year pro cyclist I am closely following on this team and he is not from Spain.
100% on the money LR! Lopez called BS on this. Mind you, best that the wives/gfs stay out of the hot mess…
… and fathers in law
You can't use Simone Biles as a comparison. If you lose your spatial awareness as a gymnast - it is dangerous. Not just a case of not performing but putting yourself at risk of injury. As for Lopez : when is there ever Movistar without drama???
Lopez was never going to close that gap with either Mader or Pidcock pulling. Sit up and wait or wreck himself on a 60k solo effort, Lopez had a pretty good chance of keeping his fifth place overall as he had five minutes on Mader.
Saw the same thing with Evenepoel in the Giro when he got dropped and just mentally quit on the stage. Huge amount of pressure and he simply cracked under it, same as Lopez.
Landa to me is different. I only watched parts of the Vuelta and didn't watch them with Landa in mind. That said did Landa ever do any work for the team once he was out of GC contention? My impression it was more like he came in as a leader, stayed for a potential stage win, and then my hip hurts and I'm not at 100 percent so going home. If you're Roglic you can be that selfish and no one is going to expect anything but that. Good luck, Vingegaard. I'm going home. Nobody bats an eye. Landa though isn't Roglic.
Sometimes your inner being can't take bs anymore...don't stick around people who show their true dislike for you bcos of money. Timing was perfect.
Yo LR - NFL has games, not matches, mate!
Loving the content as always, especially the second (and third) sport shoutouts!
Look, this all comes down as to Moviestar not wanting Lopez in second place and Mass in third in the podium. Lopez was told not to bridge that gap which at the time was only 45sec. Then no one knows what happened or what Lopez was debating in his head when he was told that. Then the camera does not go back or showed that group again until it was 3 and half minutes behind and when Lopez quit by then it was beyond 5 minutes. This tells me that Lopez was confused or surprised at the orders of Movistar and by the time he reacted it was to late or sawer to accept those orders and then there was the result . Movistar did not want Lopez to bridge gap and attack because he would have taken Mass's second place in the GC and Movistar would have preferred a Spaniard at the top of their team and not a Colombian. Why else would they have given that order???.