RetroTink 4K Hands-On: It Really Is That Good
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
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Wow I didn’t even know this was possible that 720p footage is amazing
This is so cool, I'd love to see all kinds of Retrotink 4k captures on DF, these examples look so stunning on my LG CX (that 1080p LCD panel takes me straight back to early PS3 days).
U had me at “raw pixels” and perfect scaling! 😊
This sounds like a really robust and bespoke solution.
In the here and now, it’s a great solution
@@HorseheadNebula85Nothing great about being incredibly expensive. Retrogaming is already pretty expensive as is these days and these overpriced devices are only increasing the cost significantly.
It's extremely well architected.
And that’s great
This solution is flawless, leaving a sublime final render for the audience.
Hardware BFI + HDR is so damn cool. Can't wait to try it on a nice 240hz OLED
I can't wait to the 8K Retrotink on a 100 inch 8K 480hz miniLED. Surely it'll be able to replicate a CRT faithfully with that much tech going on.
I can wait to try it in 64k TV at 128,000,000hz 3 billion years ago
@@davidosullivan9817ago ?
What IS amazing about this scaler is how freaking expensive it is.
The price is 750$ 😌
my 4k tv cost twice as much, and I got it on sale.
@@CoaltergeistOLED?
it's a niche product for a small consumer base who really cares about this kind of thing and will pay for it
No one seems to value how much work someone does anymore. It's basically a one man operation - he deserves to make money for his efforts.
I'm really looking forward to playing PC games and emulators with these 4K CRT filters.
@5:25 The HDR injection you mentioned sold me on it. That is an incredible feature for video professionals that will be extremely useful to those outside of the game space.
I am so, so glad that somebody has been testing this with PC VGA outputs. So much of the buzz about the VGA input, both for this and some VGA->SCART adapters for the 5X, focus almost exclusively on the Dreamcast. Like, don't get me wrong, I love the Dreamcast, but being able to convert an old Voodoo card's output to something like this is quite important too, I'd argue!
The Tink 5x focuses almost exclusively on Consoles, most other platforms are left out because of that. The 4k looks like it'll have zero compromises, with any gaps only occuring because it's simply too niche.
I can't wait for the Tink 4K. Incredibly excited for it.
I saw the price and checked out. 1080p's just fine for me!
@@ocha-time The price hasn't been announced yet.
@@SDMasterYoda ''Best guidance is to budget $1,000'', stated from the official site, though considering what it does it's clearly worth that to me.
@@SDMasterYodait's estimated to be $1000
@@joefuentes2977 No, he said to budget $1,000 and be pleasantly surprised when the price is revealed.
Run Putt Putt saves the Zoo through that bad boy.
I got one. I also have a 21" Philips CRT, and I don't care if they're "equal" because I just don't care. I looks awesome, tested with Neo-Geo, PSX, PS3, they all are incredible. Neo-Geo with HDMI HDR output and some tuning in the scanlines and other effects is something to behold. Then, for many people is just the convenience of playing in the big TV in the living room or not having lots of free space to put a large CRT, and this is just an amazing solution to play retro games on modern TVs.
Money well spent, at least for me. I don't really care about purism, because I was born in a worker-class family and I know for sure my parents' TV wasn't a Sony Trinitron professionally calibrated with a console connected via RGB, so why bother trying to chase that, like you were trying to replicate that supposed look of videogames in your childhood?
Insta buy for me as soon as preorders are up!
(incoherent grumbling about how CRTs can't be made due to Europe's Restriction on Hazardous Substances [specifically lead, which CRTs have in the tube glass], CRT factories being gone, CRT assembly know-how being gone, and lack of demand)
john needs to do a video on retroarch crt shader per console, i need that so bad, there are too many options and I just go with whatever i think looks good, but having someone break it down and make a tutorial on the most accurate settings would be a godsend.
This is what i was waiting for all these years...
I have like 9 retro PCs and I'm not satisfied with the capture, 1000$ though...
Well i hope they accept klarna.
The price isn't final but it is expected to be $1K at the moment. It may very well be cheaper but that's what we know right now.
I suspect it end up at $899
@@brkbtjunkie $750
I was quite annoyed to find out that my TV is smart enough to use simple 'pixel doubling' (nearest-neighbour) when going from 1080p to 2160p. And then it looks quite sharp / OK because you don't get that bilinear-blurring.
But if you take 720p, it does bilinear scaling to 4K, while 720p could be simple upscaled by using 3x3 pixel blocks (instead of 4x4 blocks). 2160p divides nicely by 3 to get 720p.
So, on steam deck for instance, I get a better image by setting my steam deck to 1080p output (and using its FSR to scale up to 1080p) and then letting my TV do the 1080p -> 2160p upscale. Annoying, but good to know.
The 5X Pro is already 500 AUD before shipping, how much will the 4K version be? $1,000AU? Just read they are targeting 1000 USD (and hope that you'll be surprised by the actual price), so that's 1,550AUD. May as well just buy a big Trinitron!
No way it's going to cost that much, especially if Mike wants to compete with the Morph 4K which comes out this quarter ($375-475 USD).
It’s $750 USD
@@mitchjames9350 can find a Trinitron for less than that :(
I dunno if you guys have covered it but in terms of hdmi and vga capture theres a devce for older cards with a vesa feature connector called the crt terminator. You put it in a ISA slot and connect it to the graphics accelerator via cable. Apparently the developers considering doing a PCI version some time in the future. Might be good for capturing old games.
Thanks for vid and details... I do hope this device will pass 5.1 audio from HDMI, as 360, PS3 and WiiU will all use 5.1 audio. From what heard, it's only doing 2.0 audio and that would be losing too much audio detail on games to use this for that feature...
Imagine if big companies like LG or Samsung someday decides to incorporate a tech like this on its expensive TV line and release a "Pro Retro Gamer 4k OLED TV" with a scaler like this inside.....Yeah it would be expensive as hell but it would be cool to see a product like this
I thought about this, too. If Sony put this tech inside of their flagship top of the line QD-OLED. That would be awesome 👌
Very excited for this! My Marantz refuses to accept N64 input and its very frustrating. Looking forward to using this. Hopefully the release announcement / purchasing process is a pleasant one.
My old Marantz SR5010 would artifact and even drop out with my N64 during F-Zero X. It actually ended up frying from it I think. I got the RetroTink 5X-Pro and it’s crazy how good it is.
John, you need to test it out with the Nintendo 64 version of Resident Evil 2 with the expansion. That's what I want to see if it can actually handle the scene to scene resolution changes.
The MLIG guys did a stream with Mike Chi and tested resolution switching on Dino Crisis. It switches just fine. But that's not new; the 5X handles resolution switching as well doesn't it?
Yep. Tink 5X handles those changes just fine in triple buffer mode.
@@Matty0megaIt also changes instantly in Frame Lock mode on some displays. My CX has no drops on resolution switches even in Frame Lock mode.
I can’t wait to use this with my Switch.
John, do you think this will solve screen tearing of old games since this supports VRR? I'd like to know if it can remove the screen tearing of Uncharted Drake's Fortune on PS3 and Assassin's Creed on Xbox 360. Also God of War 2 on PS2 is full of screen tearing.
If the review video for the Tink 4K does not end being like 4 hours long, I will be disappointed... lol
I own all consoles from sony, microsoft and nintendo after the snes so the tink4k is a no brainer for me
lol how is it a no brainer when the 5xpro is honestly more than enough for any one. The 4k is more for niche audiences and people who want to capture footage for RUclips or streams. But be my guest and give 1k to Mike Chi...
I wonder why they didn't go with HDMI 2.1 given their target price.
I also don't like that the HDMI input is only 1.4. If it was 2.0, you could easily pass-through a 4K60 signal from a PS5 or Series X. You would just switch the console to 720p or 1080p output for low resolution games (for example backwards compatibility).
With it being 1.4, you'll have to physically mess with cables when you want a 4K60 output from those consoles, or buy an extra switch.
If I'm willing to spend $750 on this, I might as well spend $1000 or whatever to get full-spec HDMI support. To me that sounds logical.
@@THU31 I was thinking upscalers would make a good option for 4K60 for current gen consoles. You could get 1080p 120fps without much slowdown.
Dang. One of the best hardware devices for folks like yourselves.
Can’t wait to see this product see the light of day!!!!
Владимир ждет тебя
I was going to sit back and watch the community use the 4K since I'm so happy with my RTX 5X.. .but man oh man. You've hyped me on it!
my god... they did it
I just hope that Mike Chi will backport as much as he can to the 5x
He has been. A lot of the recent features that have been added to the 5X came from development on the 4K.
@@SDMasterYoda that's awesome to hear
Any info on the downscaling capabilites of the device? With HDMI, VGA and component inputs, plus the deinterlacing, this could be the perfect device to output 240p to my 15kHz setup from any current console or PC to the PS2, XBOX, and Gamecube which usually output a 480i image.
When the hell can I buy this
Imagine if sony and nintendo decided to push out an emulation system for their old titles and had the sense to pay the guy who did all the work for them so they could just build a good emulator.
The thinga you can do with movies... you can make any old movie into 4k... this thing is the shit frfr
I appreciate the technology a lot but the pricing on these things are so out of this world.
So ask your parents ar Santa maybe he bring you one on Christmas
Dreamcast VGA would be nice on this tbh
John's already sold me on this thing, even if it does end up costing $1k!
Typical low IQ people thinking
sega dreamcast with its vga output would be another usecase.
Fuken awesome i have to buy bunch of them
Unreal! I've been wanting to try this with my old Voodoo2 system and Unreal.
He loves the word robust
As much I want it but US $750 is too costly for me in Australia where it’s $1140. I would like a device between this and the 5X Pro.
@Rich, given your Sega heritage, how can you say you have no interest in retro gaming!?
He ain’t a true gamer, though he probably use emulators
I don’t get why people are complaining about having to spend so much money upfront.
My advice would be if you want one, start putting some money aside each week into your PayPal account.
That’s what I’m doing. It’s a lot easier than just complaining.
People especially from America they don't know how save money
It's a shame to hear it's not HDMI 2.1
Why?
@@byronwellburn Perhaps higher refresh rates for retro PC setups?
@@KingKrouch of course 👍
Mike decided not to include it to cut costs on the device.
Hdmi 2.1 is taking ages to become commonplace. Even super high end receivers are still only offering 1-2 hdmi 2.1 ports. It's ridiculous! I can only guess that it's crazy expensive to implement. Plus all the extra horsepower you need to push hdmi 2.1 features.
Wow I can finally send my Framemister to retirement.
The kind of footage you'd want to run directly through a Retroarch CRT shader. Because who wants sharp pixels in 2023...
Whats the difference between the quality of 5x scaling 1080p as compared to 5x Pro. I stll find xrgb framemeister to be superior and sharper in generic 4:3 mode.
Is it good for just playing console games? or is it only for PC game capture? The discussion of PC video capture features muddied the waters a bit.
Well, even 1080p output from Switch on a LG C1 65 inch TV looks a bit blurry. I'll pay what I can to upscale Super Smash Bros. Ultimate and latest Zelda to 4k. This seems like the perfect kit to rule them all!
Edit the Hmdi input to PC, and it will double the resolution to 2160p, but you will lose the ability to use dejudder and deblur. I like to use dejudder for 30fps and deblur for 60fps with bfi on high. Those settings will give you lag, but motion looks awesome. I have an lgc1 77. You can also use HLG settings to get more brightness and color.
@@mexdrago3009 Jmmm strange because I do have it on PC already and I still see some blurriness, I tried to calibrate everythingas better as I can, but maybe I'm missing something. I'll try with HLG
@665Iron Maybe it's your hdmi cord?
@@mexdrago3009 well, I have it connected on a 4k 60hz splitter. Maybe it could be that?
Where can one buy it? Only direct from RetroTink? I’m in the UK
Beginner question: HDMI input is fantastic. Would it compromise image quality to plug an HDMI splitter into that input and then output to a 4K TV?
You mean to have more devices into that input? I think that was one of the suggestions Bob from RetroRGB made in his preview video of the Tink 4K. (Using a matrix switch for options to send to Tink and direct to TV depending on what you want to do)
@@alextirrellRI Yup, I have a splitter with 5 HDMI inputs and a single HDMI out and it'd be really convenient to plug that HDMI out from the splitter into the HDMI in on the Tink 4K vs. having to constantly switch out cables depending on which device I'm using. I just don't know if that would have a noticeable (or any) effect on quality.
@@dixongalvez-searle8035 That's not a splitter, that's a switch. A splitter splits one input into multiple outputs. But a switch just passes one input to the output, it doesn't affect the quality in any way.
SO MUCH POWER for 240p graphics ... lmao
Going to get one for my HDMI modded OG Xbox
Mike Chi is the GOAT
i'm caught up with some decisions making..and i need some advices as to what is better..1.) is it better to play retro games the way it was intended to be played as on CRT TV or 2.)it's better to play using upscalers on a modern tv? really appreciate some pointers..
Honestly probably on modern TV's just for the space saving and power difference
I really want one, but not enough to drop 750 dollars on.
Are there cheaper and less perfect (1080) alternatives for your broke friends (such as myself)??
will this work well with LG C2? considering that models issues with 4:3 and BFI
Looking forward to this, but the price will be an issue for many. I don't expect this to sell well (even though this is considered niche anyways).
Also, because orders are first come, first serve, I expect scalpers to get at this and resell them for 2-3x shortly after.
Just wait until they get the schematics and made knockoffs like they do the ossc and tink2xmini. Still quality but they just make them a tiny bit worse for a lot less.
So ask your parents ar Santa maybe he bring you one on Christmas
He put that green shirt back on
TAKE MY MONEY!!
Curious as to which would be better - Original Xbox with Composite through Retro Tink, or Original Xbox with one of the board-soldered HDMI chips? (tapping into the GPU feed, not just a converter HDMI cable).
Wondering if it would make more sense to get one converter box to handle all original inputs, or try to get each console modded to HDMI standards individually (not sure if there are any tech facts that would make the latter better than the former)
for the most pixel-perfect pure picture quality you’d either do a native HDMI mod and send to the RT4K or you’d use YPbPr cables into the RT4K. a non-native HDMI mod would be doing ADC conversion on the HDMI board which probably won’t be as good as the RT4K’s ADC, but if it’s a native HDMI mod then that’s different.
How much does this cost? I have the mClassic but that's a pretty low level up scale with sharpening.
The mclassix doesn't sharpen. Quite the opposite, actually
the creator mentioned to budget $1000 for this, and be pleasantly surprised when it doesn't cost that much
If I were you, I'd get the 5xpro if you really think you need it. The 4k just isn't worth it imo unless your someone like DF who needs this stuff for capturing footage
Dont waste around 1k for this
Low IQ players is ready to spend 1K
Would love to get my hands on it.
You would bet Mike Chi is somehow cookin RT8K with ML scaler with expanded gamut HDR that better than DLSS and XeSS.
This sounds like its made for capture. I didnt hear them talk about simply playing the games.
I don't have a computer and have a systems and controller that I can't sell for the to get a pc. I would rather not start over buying all the controllers and sensors just to emulate. Im also not tech savvy to do Dolphin. This will be perfect for me.
Cranking brightness with a simulated shadow mask on OLED...isn't that a fast way to have burn in?
But I'll definitely look into these devices since I still keep my PS3 and PS2 around and they look rough even on a 1080p screen, let alone on a C2.
Oh, this is a break out. I thought this was a new video
really the only downside is not being hdmi 2.1 and asking 750 dollars.
I bet it is... and for the price, it had better. I liked the original Tink. I use it today. I like the Mini... very nice and compact for my NES. I use the 2X... but the 5X was just too damned expensive. It's becoming a parody of itself. I'd sooner emulate on my 4K PC than pay the price to use "real hardware" that won't last much longer anyway.
Maybe if we made more reasonably priced items... more people would enter the hobby. Then again, this is niche to begin with.
How can it not have hdmi2.1 output? kind of a deal breaker.
2.1 retrotink for that 4k120bfi... retrotink8k when?
Josh Gad is that you ?
cool, but i'm fine as long as i got one to play with retro consoles.
How would this look with the old VHS?
You literally can xigitise VHS in a perfect sync sound to video
Raspberry Pi 4 OC'd with Retropie is all you need for the best 4K retro experience. It can shockingly emulate Dreamcast and Saturn games very well for a SoC. Why spend money on other pointless SoC emulation devices when a OC'd Rpi4 can do all that and more and for cheaper too! A Linux based SoC like the Pi can unleash some impressive sorcery being closer to the metal and having less overhead (abstraction layers)
So you can use this tink with retro PC's?
Yes
So how much is this bad boy? $500
The word is you will need to budget for about $1000 USD. It may not get that high but it will be pretty damn close to that value. If you are in Australia like me, we can expect it to be over $1000 AUD in my honest opinion. All things that are great, you can expect to get what you pay for.
@@lancepage1914 Yes, Im a fellow Aussie :) for an average user, I dont think this device will cater for them unless you have disposable income and your doing a lot of retro gaming and capturing. But for us die hard retro gamers that want the best possible video output, then this device seems to be on the top of the food chain and nothing at the moment compares to it. Decisions, decisions.
Very cool device, however at that price it isn't that important to have it 1000% perfect now if that was in the 300-400 range potential buy 1k is just absurd lol
So ask your parents ar Santa maybe he bring you one on Christmas
When can I get one ?
Now
For a low low price of $750.
I could upscale games that don't emulate well, like PS3 games here we go Resistance Fall of Man. And although PS2 is easy to emulate, snowblind games dont.
Yeah nobody wants to spend lots of money but I will get this thing. I am waiting only for the 4K Tink. It will pair nicely with my LG C1 and CX
All I care about is getting 1080p rendering with retro consoles with little to zero lag, and the ability to stretch the screen like one can do on Analogue systems.
All this, “render to 4k stuff” is meh… oh, and the possibility that this thing might be able to upscale DVDs from 480p to 1080p sounds absolutely badass, but way too good to be true so I’m not holding my breath.
This will be a godsend. If you ever tried some of the existing VGA upscaling solutions (like, say, the Extron 300A, or StarTech devices, or Geffen or even OSSC) then you might have come to the conclusion that better than 'ok' just is not possible. This, however, this looks like the real deal. And I don't even stream or capture, I just want to treat my eyeballs to VGA output quality that rivals what RGB2HDMI delivers for many other devices.
Also keeping an eye on the CRT Terminator project using the VESA feature connector to grab VGA before it passes the RAMDAC ruclips.net/video/i14WJheyG14/видео.html
I'm getting it specifically for the fact that it can reduce a lot of motion blur for 24fps & 30fps content, aka movies & TV shows. Internal BFI on current OLED's only work in tandem with 60fps-120fps games. So we're left with high motion blur when watching movies/TV.
If you use Retrotink4K with a QD-OLED, it will reduce the motion persistence down to 6.9ms(from the vanilla 16ms which is just awful) since it's 144hz. For 120hz OLED's, it will ruduce motion blur down to 8.3ms. The end result will be motion that's comparable to some of the best plasma TV's, minus OLED's excess film judder.
I personally can't stand watching movies or tv shows on OLED because of the high motion blur and pronounced judder, but at least with Retrotink4k it will cut down about 60% of motion blur, to the point where you'll feel like you're watching movies on a plasma, but with perfect blacks, much higher brightness and truer bright whites, but with a bit more judder and slight BFI flicks on whites. Unfortunately, Retrotink4K with 24 & 30fps content works at only 1080p and not 4K. hopefully there will be a future model will support 4K + BFI at those frame rates.
I would just want the VGA portion. £400.00 I'm all in.
Damn 👍
So technically instean of spending a grand on upgrading my 3070 you could buy one of these and play new Unreal Engine 5 games at mak settings at a lower resolution and use this device to upscale to 4k.
It doesn’t support HDMI 2.1
Can't wait for the bootleg version at a cheaper price
Not likely to happen. There was never a bootleg version of the 5X released, only the 2x.
@@SDMasterYoda Wont take that long to be honest, and im all for bootlegs if it decreases the ridiculous price this thing will list for (Up to 1000€)
@@kanggoo57 If they couldn't bootleg the 5X, why would they be able to bootleg the 4K?
@@SDMasterYoda As i said, just a matter of time.
@@kanggoo57did you not just hear what he said? If they've never been able to bootleg the 5x, why would they be able to bootleg the 4K?
I, honestly still don't own a 4K TV or monitor, cause honestly i didn't see the need for it so, i don't care much or less about 4K capture or 4K playing n stuff
This.. may make me finally ditch my Datapath capture card. ESPECIALLY if it can work properly with arcade boards (some of you know which ones).
You'll still need a capture card to use with the tink 4k. The tink has no way to hook into a PC to record.
@@SDMasterYoda oh, I know. I have currently an EVGA XR1 Pro. It's just at least for my Amiga and Atari STE, my Datapath internal card just views all the different PAL modes as 400x300.
Aren't emulators better? They can increase render resolution, which is better than scaling. And it's free.
It is and you can also increase fps of the older systems like n64. No point to buy this overpriced thing.
Problem i have is that John spent most of the time, talking up capture capabilities, people need to understand that if you have a 5x, you do not need this. HDR 10bit is cool, but LG C1/G1 can correct it through a secret menu without the 4K.
idk i'm pretty intrigued by the idea of running something like a switch or wii u through this thing and upscaling to 4k
No, there is no secret menu to activate HDR mode for a SDR signal. That's not something any TV does.
@@TestTypeGthis isn’t correct. You can force HGIG HDR on SDR signals on LG Oleds. Works pretty well for retro games. Of course it isn’t true HDR as source is SDR but that’s not the point of HDR support for devices like the Retrotink.it’s to force more brightness for CRT filters.
Nice no more crt TV's 😂
or CRT computer monitors😞
Bruh, are you Cathode Ray-cist? 😆😊
I'd absolutely love to get my hands on something like this but the price tags are ludicrous... I understand that a certain amount of expertise goes into these things and the demand is low but damn my wallet doesn't care about any of that...
Also surely there is a point to where these things being valued so high keeps the demand very low in a negative feedback loop of sorts