Tbf, at least with di2, you could use the XT and xtr derailleurs with road shifters. The problem is, there’s no mtb di2 to do that with for 12 speed, so we’re just sitting on our hands waiting for an electronic wide-range 1x12 from Shimano, while SRAM is almost 2 generations in with AXS and even has a 13 speed gravel drivetrain already.
Make Cross Compatiblity Great Again Ex 4Xer an I remember the good ol days of having DH cranks MTB shifter Road cassette an meach an a good ol KMC chain, set up 6 speed with 9 an 10 speed equiptment
You realize this is isn't determined by Shimano but is decided by the frame manufacturer. For example my Trek madone Gen8 road bike has it's di2 battery in the down tube. Which is because of the seatpost design
Oh goodie another groupset I can't afford! Just give me the damn Brifters they promised for CUES and I'll pass by GRX altogether. I ended going with Microshift SWORD 2x10.
Shimano mechanical 1x already uses the MTB cassettes, so it is easy to assume that the Di2 version will use the same cassettes. Bummer is that the MTB cassettes do not have the best gear spacing for gravel (arguably). the SRAM Red AXS XPLR cassette is an example of how do to gravel gear spacing correctly. Hopefully Shimano will also introduce some new cassettes, with a better gear spacing more suited than that of the MTB cassettes. After having Shimano mechanical 1x for last season, my new build is going to be SRAM Red XPLR, even though I prefer the quality of Shimano, SRAM is just beating them out in terms of 1x drivetrains for gravel. I hope Shimano will catch up, and make something really great, eventually...
Old 11-speed Shimano MTB cassettes were good for that, you have 11-40, 42 and 46 option, but that's 11 speed in 12 speed you go from 11-36 road/gravel to 10-45 and 10-51 MTB, nothing in between
@@igorpiasecki7909 Maybe I did not make my point clearly enough. It is not the range of the cassettes that is the problem, it is the way the spacing is. BTW, this past season I rode and raced the XTR 10-45 cassette, with a 46T chainring. The gear range was about perfect, but in the smaller part of the cogs, the spacing between gears was a little too wide for keeping an even cadence and power. This is because the cassette was designed for the needs of MTB terrain, rather than gravel terrain. This is one of the reasons I am switching to SRAM Red XPLR for the coming season: the rear cassette has very close spacing in the smaller cogs, which makes more sense for the type of terrain typical of gravel rides (more like road riding than MTB due to the fact that gravel roads typically have less abrupt gradient changes). Shimano would do well to design a dedicated cassette for their 1x gravel group, rather than just relying not he existing MTB cassettes. This is not a huge difference, but it is enough of a difference to make me choose to go with SRAM, as there were a couple of gear steps that were annoying large when moving at speed.
@ No no, I understood that you were talking about spacing and I know that these old 11-speed MTB Shimano Cassettes have the smallest 6 or 7 sprockets spaced the same as 11-34 11s road cassette. I mean by default if you have less range with the same amount of sprockets spacing will be closer. I agree a gravel specific 12 speed cassette is needed from Shimano, when GRX was 11-speed tops they were using those 11-40/11-42 in their groupsets, but for 12-speed there are massive jumps between cassettes that a gravel specific 12s cassette would solve
I'm riding the GRX 12 speed group set, it shifts so smoothly, I don't understand why everyone is freaking out about getting the electronic version? You're out riding in these rough conditions but it's too hard tap a paddle 1/2" and want add batteries that can cause added issues?
I used to share your POV, and rode GRX 12 speed last season. Twice I had the derailleur cable fray where it makes a sharp bend coming out of the shifter body and the shifting got *ucked. It is essentially design flaw. Of course, if one preemptively replaces the cable every 2000 miles one can avoid the problem. That, and the fact that my new bike will have internal routing made me convert to electronic, wireless shifting. It will be interesting to see what happens when Shimano, finally, comes out with new MTB Di2 and Gravel 1x Di2. But they are so slow it if frustrating.
@@barrowsworm1226 But wouldn't you want Shimano to fix their design flaws rather than buy a new, even more expensive, set up? To replace the new 1x12 they just introduced. I still ride my first gravel bike, a CX bike I bought 12 years ago, it has never had anything done to it and still shifts great with the original cables. My new bike , which cost 3 times as much, I would hope for the same durability. I'm riding to escape a world of battery and failed technology.
@@tomrodriguez9052 I am done with waiting for Shimano. I ride a fair amount, and I race, and I am willing to pay a little bit more to get the gear I feel is best for me. While I still feel, that, ultimately Shimano has better overall quality than SRAM, SRAM is beating out Shimano on features and usuability for my use case. Also I appreciate the greater support at races I attend from SRAM, where Shimano does not seem to be around anymore much. The full mount derailleur system with Red XPLR is also greatly appreciated, I have experienced a few times races getting severely compromised due to someone bumping my rear derailleur and bending the hanger, the full mount set up will be immune to that problem. I have no problem keeping batteries working, it is not that hard, and the SRAM AXS batteries are really small, it is easy to carry a spare just in case, and they can be switched out in seconds. While I am a fan of mechanical shifting performance, when everything is perfectly set up, the electronic stuff is even better-every shift is perfect, and it does not require adjustment for the inevitable cable stretch, etc. I agree, that such is not a big deal, but the cable failures at the lever are a big deal when they happen. I put in 6000 miles on gravel last year, and this year will probably be around 7,500 miles, so the bike gets a good workout.
I would have loved to go Ekar GT, but I had so much Eagle stuff from my mountianbikes, thus went the Apex Eagle route I did testride it once and it felt wonderfull, spare parts might be a bit of a struggle
To be honest I really like the "never change a running system" agenda of Shimano. Yes, SRAM is hitting the market with tons of fancy stuff every year but the thing is... do we really need this? At the time they released rainbow cassettes and chains this where I stopped beeing interested in this brand. What I can see is that this partial useless innovation is just making things more and more expensive year after year.
Disagree, while I do prefer the quality level of Shimano components in some ways, SRAM has introduced some very meaningful tech which has put them ahead for MTB and Gravel. The UDH and the Transmission group sets, and the Red XPLR groups, have a big advantage in rear shifting reliability, as it is now impossible to "bend" the derailleur hanger and get ones' shifting all *ucked up. That innovation alone is huge, especially for racers-it does not take much of a hit to a rear derailleur to bend the hanger and mess up the shifting, and this has happened to me multiple times in races (something as simple as another racer bumping the RD can really mess up the shifting). Additionally, the full wireless approach of AXS makes bike set up, builds, and maintenance much simpler, and is another huge advantage for SRAM.
Gravel bikes are scam, but bigger gear ratio is what people need. Shimano should make a 12 speed mechanical rim brake shifter, so it would work with GRX ecosystem. They should really just resurrect and refine the rim brake groupsets so they could become the no nonsense brand they once were.
@fen2453 I‘m sure you don’t because the industry has already successfully scammed us that the road cyclists need disk brakes. The reality is, most western market consumers are office people with bulkier physique, that suits longer reach bikes like aero or gravel bikes. Shorter reach classic road bikes, or any no nonsense road bikes are increasingly becoming so rare, that the only way to get one is from bespoke frame builder. The pro peleton is not traditional road cycling. It is just pure marketing monstrosity!
Tbf, at least with di2, you could use the XT and xtr derailleurs with road shifters. The problem is, there’s no mtb di2 to do that with for 12 speed, so we’re just sitting on our hands waiting for an electronic wide-range 1x12 from Shimano, while SRAM is almost 2 generations in with AXS and even has a 13 speed gravel drivetrain already.
there is a new mtb di2 but it's ebike only which is ridiculous 😂
I'm still happy with 9s. It does all I need.
9s 11-36t cassette, an acera derailleur/old shimano mtb rd and sora shifters
Wireless xtr rear mech is coming and will be compatible with grx shifters. Hence why 1x wasnt released yet.
this
Make Cross Compatiblity Great Again
Ex 4Xer an I remember the good ol days of having DH cranks MTB shifter Road cassette an meach an a good ol KMC chain, set up 6 speed with 9 an 10 speed equiptment
gear tech peaked at 10 speed, fight me
OK direct mount cranks are pretty cool
Isnt the T transmission stuff what cues does? As in you can mash the pedals when youre changing gears and the derailleur wont shit on u
12sp shimano has always been like this
I love Shimano but I don’t like the DI2 options.. I prefer the SRAM wireless option.
Same
if its electrical go for Sram!
@@RazzFazz-Race that’s my feeling. Great App, too.
@@Natan9000 di2 has better shifting quality.
Much better.
Soon Shimano will be wireless too, as they exchanged patents with SRAM (don't remember what SRAM got)
Shimano (di2) - Good - Reliable - Boring - Slow to market - Limited options - Virtually unchanged since launch 16 years ago - once leaders, not now.
Actually, on the road, Shimano is the undisputed leader. they are only behind when it comes to gravel and MTB.
I think the main problem is-droperpost.
They need to put away battery from seatpost
You realize this is isn't determined by Shimano but is decided by the frame manufacturer. For example my Trek madone Gen8 road bike has it's di2 battery in the down tube. Which is because of the seatpost design
it's back on the Squad cycles website now....
To be honest, you could have just used 3rd party crankset such as ROTOR anyway.
Oh goodie another groupset I can't afford! Just give me the damn Brifters they promised for CUES and I'll pass by GRX altogether. I ended going with Microshift SWORD 2x10.
Take my money
waiting for the Cues roadbike (Dropbar) Groupset
rip being able to find cheap and easy replacements for my existing 7 and 9 speed bikes
ALL THE RANNNNNNNGE
Yes please
Shimano mechanical 1x already uses the MTB cassettes, so it is easy to assume that the Di2 version will use the same cassettes. Bummer is that the MTB cassettes do not have the best gear spacing for gravel (arguably). the SRAM Red AXS XPLR cassette is an example of how do to gravel gear spacing correctly. Hopefully Shimano will also introduce some new cassettes, with a better gear spacing more suited than that of the MTB cassettes. After having Shimano mechanical 1x for last season, my new build is going to be SRAM Red XPLR, even though I prefer the quality of Shimano, SRAM is just beating them out in terms of 1x drivetrains for gravel. I hope Shimano will catch up, and make something really great, eventually...
Old 11-speed Shimano MTB cassettes were good for that, you have 11-40, 42 and 46 option, but that's 11 speed in 12 speed you go from 11-36 road/gravel to 10-45 and 10-51 MTB, nothing in between
@@igorpiasecki7909 Maybe I did not make my point clearly enough. It is not the range of the cassettes that is the problem, it is the way the spacing is. BTW, this past season I rode and raced the XTR 10-45 cassette, with a 46T chainring. The gear range was about perfect, but in the smaller part of the cogs, the spacing between gears was a little too wide for keeping an even cadence and power. This is because the cassette was designed for the needs of MTB terrain, rather than gravel terrain. This is one of the reasons I am switching to SRAM Red XPLR for the coming season: the rear cassette has very close spacing in the smaller cogs, which makes more sense for the type of terrain typical of gravel rides (more like road riding than MTB due to the fact that gravel roads typically have less abrupt gradient changes). Shimano would do well to design a dedicated cassette for their 1x gravel group, rather than just relying not he existing MTB cassettes. This is not a huge difference, but it is enough of a difference to make me choose to go with SRAM, as there were a couple of gear steps that were annoying large when moving at speed.
@ No no, I understood that you were talking about spacing and I know that these old 11-speed MTB Shimano Cassettes have the smallest 6 or 7 sprockets spaced the same as 11-34 11s road cassette. I mean by default if you have less range with the same amount of sprockets spacing will be closer. I agree a gravel specific 12 speed cassette is needed from Shimano, when GRX was 11-speed tops they were using those 11-40/11-42 in their groupsets, but for 12-speed there are massive jumps between cassettes that a gravel specific 12s cassette would solve
I'm riding the GRX 12 speed group set, it shifts so smoothly, I don't understand why everyone is freaking out about getting the electronic version? You're out riding in these rough conditions but it's too hard tap a paddle 1/2" and want add batteries that can cause added issues?
I used to share your POV, and rode GRX 12 speed last season. Twice I had the derailleur cable fray where it makes a sharp bend coming out of the shifter body and the shifting got *ucked. It is essentially design flaw. Of course, if one preemptively replaces the cable every 2000 miles one can avoid the problem. That, and the fact that my new bike will have internal routing made me convert to electronic, wireless shifting.
It will be interesting to see what happens when Shimano, finally, comes out with new MTB Di2 and Gravel 1x Di2. But they are so slow it if frustrating.
@@barrowsworm1226 But wouldn't you want Shimano to fix their design flaws rather than buy a new, even more expensive, set up? To replace the new 1x12 they just introduced. I still ride my first gravel bike, a CX bike I bought 12 years ago, it has never had anything done to it and still shifts great with the original cables. My new bike , which cost 3 times as much, I would hope for the same durability. I'm riding to escape a world of battery and failed technology.
@@tomrodriguez9052 I am done with waiting for Shimano. I ride a fair amount, and I race, and I am willing to pay a little bit more to get the gear I feel is best for me. While I still feel, that, ultimately Shimano has better overall quality than SRAM, SRAM is beating out Shimano on features and usuability for my use case. Also I appreciate the greater support at races I attend from SRAM, where Shimano does not seem to be around anymore much. The full mount derailleur system with Red XPLR is also greatly appreciated, I have experienced a few times races getting severely compromised due to someone bumping my rear derailleur and bending the hanger, the full mount set up will be immune to that problem. I have no problem keeping batteries working, it is not that hard, and the SRAM AXS batteries are really small, it is easy to carry a spare just in case, and they can be switched out in seconds. While I am a fan of mechanical shifting performance, when everything is perfectly set up, the electronic stuff is even better-every shift is perfect, and it does not require adjustment for the inevitable cable stretch, etc. I agree, that such is not a big deal, but the cable failures at the lever are a big deal when they happen. I put in 6000 miles on gravel last year, and this year will probably be around 7,500 miles, so the bike gets a good workout.
Campag ekar anyone?
I would have loved to go Ekar GT, but I had so much Eagle stuff from my mountianbikes, thus went the Apex Eagle route
I did testride it once and it felt wonderfull, spare parts might be a bit of a struggle
Josh!
To be honest I really like the "never change a running system" agenda of Shimano. Yes, SRAM is hitting the market with tons of fancy stuff every year but the thing is... do we really need this? At the time they released rainbow cassettes and chains this where I stopped beeing interested in this brand. What I can see is that this partial useless innovation is just making things more and more expensive year after year.
Disagree, while I do prefer the quality level of Shimano components in some ways, SRAM has introduced some very meaningful tech which has put them ahead for MTB and Gravel. The UDH and the Transmission group sets, and the Red XPLR groups, have a big advantage in rear shifting reliability, as it is now impossible to "bend" the derailleur hanger and get ones' shifting all *ucked up. That innovation alone is huge, especially for racers-it does not take much of a hit to a rear derailleur to bend the hanger and mess up the shifting, and this has happened to me multiple times in races (something as simple as another racer bumping the RD can really mess up the shifting). Additionally, the full wireless approach of AXS makes bike set up, builds, and maintenance much simpler, and is another huge advantage for SRAM.
Is it legit or was he Joshing?
Gravel bikes are scam, but bigger gear ratio is what people need. Shimano should make a 12 speed mechanical rim brake shifter, so it would work with GRX ecosystem. They should really just resurrect and refine the rim brake groupsets so they could become the no nonsense brand they once were.
what and go backwards ?
I can't remember the last time I saw a bike with a rim brake😂
@fen2453 I‘m sure you don’t because the industry has already successfully scammed us that the road cyclists need disk brakes. The reality is, most western market consumers are office people with bulkier physique, that suits longer reach bikes like aero or gravel bikes. Shorter reach classic road bikes, or any no nonsense road bikes are increasingly becoming so rare, that the only way to get one is from bespoke frame builder. The pro peleton is not traditional road cycling. It is just pure marketing monstrosity!