Biggest Olympic Judging Scandals and Paris Rules Update
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
- Gymnastics is well aware of its role in the wider Olympic ecosystem: to have judging drama. That's why we are here. We explain judging scandals offering simplifications that normies can understand; prompting them to go on and have very strong and newly informed opinions about. So… the biggest judging scandals in Olympic gymnastics history
We discuss:
00:01:14 - Rebeca Andrade (BRA) video fo Triple Twisting Yurchenko
00:04:11 - Biggest judging scandals in Olympic gymnastics history, setting the stage for Paris
00:05:13 - The Case of the Ill-Given Gold: 2004 Yang Tae-Young lost gold because of judging error
00:13:23 - The Case of the Bogus Bronze: Drăgulescu give impossible score knocking Shewfelt to fourth
00:18:45 - The Case of the Sexy Stoppage: Alexei Nemov's score causes crowd to protest and judges to adjust his score
00:23:45 - Fallout from the multiple men's judging scandals at the 2004 Athens Olympics
00:26:03 - Can you still get a 10.0 score in Olympic gymnastics?
00:28:00 - How to spell the Chéng vault correctly
00:32:15 - The Case of the Accused Australian: When Nastia and He Kexin tied for bars gold
00:37:58 - The Case of the Diabolical Dismount: 2012 London Team Final, Kohei's botched dismount and waving money at the judges
00:44:56 - The Case of Bela's Bullshit: 1980 Olympic All Around disputed victor
00:51:36 - How non-controversies get started, revisiting 1980 Olympic news article
00:55:55 - The Case of the Convenient Communist: For years the wrong story was told about the 1968 Mexico City Olympic all-around Caslavska vs Petrik
01:03:34 - New Rules for Paris Olympics
01:17:08 - Gymternet News
01:18:51 - Elvira Saadi’s lifetime ban upheld
01:19:41 - Livvy Dunne is staying at LSU and we get to see more of her beautiful form
01:22:22 - Simone Biles Rio Olympic coach has a new book out 
Спорт
Actually, the lore of Rebeca's triple is much more complex and complicated. English is not my first language, but I will try to explain: Basically, the Brazilian Olympic Committee and the Brazilian Confederation of Gymnastics have some kinda of beef. Allegedly, The Olympic committee, sometimes, exploit the gymnastics images, in this case, they recorded the training but the video wasn't suppose to be posted. Allegedly, Rebeca have been training the triple for years, is executing very good, and the plan was to show the world only one day before the Olympics, during training, and the Brazilian Olympic Committee knew it, but for attention, they posted anyway. The real reason this vault was a secret it's because of the score, they believe that maintaining it as a secret, another countries(America) wouldn't "lobby" for a lower score, since Rebeca is basically the only person who can compete against Biles, on vault.
hope everyone understood, I tried my best to explain 🙃And again, all of this is alleged
Edit: My source. It's in Brazilian Portuguese: ruclips.net/video/k38mtjjJoa0/видео.html
It was perfectly clear. Obrigada pela explicaçao! 😊
Well the athletes will do the vault and the outcome will be what it is. I’ll be happy if both Rebecca and Simone place no matter what order.
I doubt she will do it. Its such a hard vault.
In regards to Chinese pronunciation, Cheng would have the same "uh" sound regardless of the accent. The accent reflects the tone, not the vowel sound. Chinese romanization uses a system called Pinyin which is actually very consistent, but does not always align with English (which is an extremely inconsistent written language). It would only take about 30 minutes to learn Pinyin. As an aside, Qiu Qiyuan's family name Qiu is pronounced more like "Cho" since the iu diphthong sounds like the word "Yo".
Okay, but the whole point of Romanization is to align the correct pronunciation with the Latin script. Using a system that is "consistent" (but does not consistently align with a specific language) defeats the point, which is exactly why we end up in the situation we're in now (with people both pronouncing and spelling her name incorrectly). The system they are using FAILS! It doesn't matter that English is an inconsistently written language because it doesn't have to be consistently written if the goal is merely to arrive at a correct pronunciation. We can do that even with an inconsistently written language. The simplest way to pronounce her name in English is by transliterating it as "Chung" because that spelling would lead most people to the closest (most correct) pronunciation of her actual name than any other spelling would.
As a Chinese speaker, Qiu is definitely not pronounced as "Cho." The Q is like a Ch but there is a clear -iu, maybe even close to -ew like "Chew" if you must, but when I think of how they pronounce it in Mandarin, it doesn't sound anything like "Cho."
THANK YOU for mentioning the 2004 MAG vault final! As a Canadian, I was so mad and sad for Kyle Shewfelt. It's 20 years later and I'm still not over it.
Praying to all Gods that are listening that Rebe makes it to Paris
Thanks for this awesome and scandalous trip down memory lane. As a seriously old school gym nerd, I really appreciate your knowledge and expertise of the 1980 Moscow Olympics. Cheers!
Why can't you use fair use to show short clips of these things on the youtube?
Would love this!!
The peace prize is actually the only Nobel prize awarded in Norway. All the science prizes, literature prize, and economics prize are awarded in Stockholm.
Omg! That MyKayla Skinner comment made me snort laugh out loud.
Same. I was waiting for them to bring her up lol.
🙋🏼♀️volunteering to be a petition runner. I can frantically wave my arms and yell loudly if necessary. It's my best chance to contribute to anything competitive. I'm sure we could get some sort of sponsored cute outfits or something too.
Ooooh, me too! We could wear sneakers with little wings on the heels like Mercury/Hermes, the messenger god!
Just an awesome discussion!
I hope Andrade does the triple and it’s safe and they give it more than a 5.8. The Yurchenko vaults are very undervalued. An Amanar is only a 5.4. WTF?
I was interested how likely it is she is actually trying to compete it. I read a comment on reddit that suggested maybe she was just training it without landing to improve her Amanar. I thought that made some sense, but it would be exciting to see her compete this successfully. I'm just afraid for her knees.
Noooooo please God don't have her do it!! Have you seen the training video?? It's terrifying and she's going to get injured for sure
Ya, or maybe the cheng is overrated. Everyone and their grandma can do the Cheng now (I'm exaggerating), but Amanar is just as hard and dangerous!
What is the Cheng valued at?
@darklight1030 lol well still only a handful can do it and even fewer (personally only 2-3 imo) do it well. This is simply what happens when something is valued appropriately. Back when the Amanar was valued well, we saw lots of them and now we hardly ever see it.
Just Subscribed!
1:14:45 when Spencer was talking about running diagonally I started dying laughing.
The issue with He Kexin tie break is dropping the lowest score in a tie break biases results to the poor performance. Stated another way, one judge thought He was really bad....so dropping that judges score puts her ahead. Wouldn't it make more sense to drop the HIGHEST judges score?! Because then you are normalizing for a judge that overscored the routine
In math you would winsorise the scores, take away highest and lowest to remove outliers
Usually you would drop the high and low and take the middle scores. How ever yes it should have been dropping the high score if anything.
Let’s stop talking about you-know-Skinner-who entirely. She did a thing once, but her behavior, her words, her actions, and her overall body of work is not positive. If we stop looking at it and stop talking about it, it WILL go away. She blocked me from her channels and I blocked her back, so it’s like she never existed. ❤
This cancel culture ish is nauseating! The notion that someone should cease to exist because they made a controversial statement is anything but just as bad as whatever was expressed (most of the time)... and how is what she said even _racist?_ .... the people calling it _racist_ seem racist imho.
You sound like an extremely toxic person
I knew the first thing that was coming up was Paul Hamm lol also I laughed so hard at the 3 tenths off for breathing
The Čáslavská silent protest reminds me of Albert Azaryan's 'Iron Cross'
In the case of He Kexin, not so secretly 14 😂
I'm fine with following age rules, but we gotta acknowledge there's been age falsification by European countries (eg Romania w/Silivas, Marinescu, and Gogean), and nobody pitches a hissy like they do w/China and North Korea which smacks of racism. If we're applying it, do it equally.
@@KaiOpaka There’s nothing racist for catching age falsification. The 2000 Chinese team was caught for age falsification, and so being stripped of a team medal by IOC. They are caught precisely because of the age inconsistency found even in FIG record.
@@KaiOpaka I kind of don’t see it so much is a racist thing as much as a eastern European tradition of dominating gymnastics so maybe we have let things slide in the past, which is not right, but there were also some age falsification going on for China before they were caught in 2000, so I’m pretty sure from a few commentaries. I have read recently that 2000 is when they started cracking down on those things across the board because too many judges and the FIG was facing too many accusations of, shady things going on behind the scenes for lack of a better term, so I kind of think it’s more of that. And maybe you could call that racist, but I see it more as a dynasty kind of thing. At least that’s what a few commentary articles written recently have kind of concluded, which kind of makes a lot of sense when you think about it.
@@KaiOpaka none of those ages were falsified Silivas was 16 in South Korea Gogean was 14 years 10 mos. old in the 1992 Olympics and 18 years 10 mos. old in the 1996 Olympics and Marinescu was 14 at the 1996 Olympics unfortunately she retired at age 16 in 1998 due to injury similar to Kerri Strug after the 1996 Olympics due to her ankle injury on vault in team all around the lowest score in the Vault final in the 1996 Olympics was Shannon Miller's 9.350
@@KaiOpakaI am equally critical of all offenders. The difference I've noticed is that because the Soviets and Romanians (with the exception of Gogean) have been honest, there are no fans insisting that they weren't underage. This isn't the case when it comes to the Chinese athletes. In turn, you get accused of being racist (and worse) for pointing out their blatant attempts at age falsification (aka pointing out facts). It's very annoying, to put it mildly.
Weird. mykayla skinners videos(the commentary watch party of team trials) are on again on her channel. She deleted them, and then again put them back.
I think those videos were always up, she took down the one where she reacted to both days the day after the team had been selected, that one was only 20 minutes long, and I know because I was commenting on all of them lol. But even if she did delete them for short time, it would swipe all the comments, clean off of them, so it’s a way to get rid of those very quickly and easily. She’s been deleting all of the comments. She doesn’t like from her Instagram posts lately and blocking people left and right.
Yes. That is absolutely the case. The original 2 Olympic Trials watch parties have always been there since they were hosted live. I watched them both. It was the subsequent “recap video” where most of the offensive comments were made, that was removed. Although if you watch the watch parties there are small references such as her not knowing/mispronouncing Hezley’s name. Then came the verbal video apology which fell flat & made things even worse & finally the former written apology on various social media (IG & UTUBE).
5 posts in total.
I just wanna hang out with you guys! You crack me up…🤣
Is there any discussion in FIG or the gymnastics community in general to have 5 member teams and allowing 2 individual gymnasts for woman and 3 for men per country max? And the individual athletes can only do 2 events for women and 3 for men max.
Obrigado pelas felicitações!
Nós Brasileiros estamos contando os dias para ver o espetáculo das nossas ginastas em Paris!
The Men's AA 2004 AA scandal is so bizarre. No offense to Paul, he is an amazing athlete but FIG handled the whole thing so poorly.
I'm here I'm here I'm here I'm here
If you want to know the scandal in the 1968 Women's Gymnastics featuring ditzy judges and a US Athlete.....let me know!!!
1980 the New York Times and their affiliates around the globe stated that 'Thee Olympic Princess has fallen'....NBC was nowhere to be seen, it was their equipment but the BBC that ran it...The Moscow Olympics were ridiculous from the first vault to the last floor.
👀
I like the glasses, Jessica.
We can clearly see that she is not getting that tty around at all. She is going to get so injured. She won't do this in paris.
hello there! i'm a fellow chinese speaker myself, and i would actually like to verify on the pronunciation of 'cheng'. the reason behind its original pronunciation has nothing to do with the accent actually. in fact, the real reason is because 'e' in every chinese name is fundamentally pronounced as 'er' (but without the letter r) to begin with.
the main purpose of the accent is actually to signify a direction/expression almost, it's very complicated to explain it through text as it will be much easier to understand the difference if you actually get to hear the words in person. for example: chéng (程) vs chēng (撑), they mean very different things, but they are both still pronounced as 'che(r)ng', just with a slight difference in expression. (hint: the google translate audio function (in chinese - simplified) could be very useful)
hope that this clears the misinformation, love your content btw :)
What about the extra hang in Yang’s routine? Wouldn’t that have put him out of the medals had the judges caught it/deducted for it?
If rebecca does the triple, will it be named after her? Or has it been done by a woman before?
If she submits it and then does it, it'll be named after her. There was a north korean gymnast who attempted it in 2016 but she didn't get it all the way around and fell
@ANovemberStar I don't think Anybody has ever done a triple twisting Yurchenko in international competition so yes if Rebecca Andrade completes it in Olympic competition it will be named after her similar to how the 2 1/2 twisting version is named after Simona Amanar of Romania when she landed it at the 2000 Sydney summer Olympics in group 3 in the finals of Vault though she finished in 6th place in the finals with a 9.54 after Dong Fengxiao was disqualified in 2010 for competing underage age 14 when min age was 15 it had been 14 up until 1996
I watched the 2000 WOG it was cool to watch. Now I know who Amanar is. I wonder which countries are poised to give usa the biggest challenge (?)
Yep, I knew Livvy would return to LSU. It's business. She's indeed a beautiful gymnast and a darling indeed.
That she is going back into the gym every day for another year speaks to her drive as an athlete. I doubt she really needs the LSU platform at this point. I imagine that she might be the highest paid team member in 2025, which makes it interesting. I genuinely appreciated the insight regarding her overall disposition. She has built an amazing brand, but there is that factor in it that makes me feel uneasy. Ultimately wishing her and LSU the best for next season.
@@colettemcnabb7365 She's good for LSU. They love what she's able to do. What I love about her is that she is showing what one can do for their brand without a grueling olympic endeavor.
But… isn’t “doing gymnastics and not having to land” just called Diving? ;o)
❤❤❤
SAFE??? I don’t want to think this way… just seems scary to travel to France (or anywhere?) given the state of the world??
I found the US American
I still don’t understand why they don’t have any spots for individuals-Tokyo allowed 6 per qualified teams, so why isn’t Paris allowing 5+1?
What do you think about the Italian team? I was shocked when I saw Elisa Iorio and Manila Esposito landing DTY! Now Italy has good valued vaults to really be one of the main contenders for team final🎉
It's not shocking for Elisa because she showed some pretty good DTY training early this year. Manila's DTY is kinda expected because her Y1.5 is really good.
@@cocoroni1031 Elisa didn't land it since 2019! Her recovery over the past 2 years is incredible.
@Nixmathis Brazil likely won't medal as a team in Paris. Of course anything can happen but Brazil, on paper, is quite a bit behind Italy and China (and, of course, the USA). The medals will likely be Gold - USA and then Italy and China for silver or bronze.
@@davidjacobmarts535 I have Brazil above China, even Rebe fk around with that vault 😩. Both Brazil and Italy have 3 DTY or other difficult vaults. Italy's bars rotation is good. Brazil has high E score on beam and floor.
Italian silver finally!
I like Jessica's world. If you two gymnasts tie, then they both get the medal. Poof! Problem solved, end of story. I don't understand why this isn't a thing anymore!! lol
Sexy Alexei 😂😂 him at the 1996 Olympics is when I fell in love 😂😂☺️ and he only was getting hotter at every Olympics! 😂
1,000,000% I believe there was favoritism with Russian scores for women's gymnastics last Olympics!!! I can't believe people didn't talk about it!!
Is there ivy on the West Coast?
Did they not discuss the vault at syndey?
They did, but it's not a judging scandal.
Aimee coach Simone to 19 World and Olympic medals.
Did Mary Lou put her hand down on floor during team optionals at 1984 Olympics and score a 9.9? I feel like that is scandalous.
Honestly, I really thought Andrade was going to do a Li Xiaopeng as her new vault 😂
Suni is going to gagg the people on bars 🙌🔥. I be willing to bet based off her performance in last bars final in Tokyo she's coming for bars redemption. 💯
Jessica - you look very fancy! Is that lipstick??
I'm hoping the 2028 Olympics uses the europeans format with the team final as the last event
accent aigu .... that's the "thank you" accent because you are bowing. The other one angled the other way is accent grave (pronounced grahv) ... because you are getting ready to lay down in your grave.
Ayoye, which way are you facing for these?
@@valerielevasseur8674 é - l'accent aigu, è - l'accent grave
@@stephenquillen1479 Oui, je les connais bien, j'en ai une couple moi-même (circonflexe, celle-la). I just can't picture the bowing and lying down.
Apparently Livvy Dunne's pronouns are USA. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
FIG aka administration error 😂😂😂
YES SPENCER, Yang Yilin should have won bars in 2008. Finally someone who agrees with me🎉
The Paul Hamm situation was handled correctly. After reading the transcripts, it is clear that South Korea had the opportunity to protest and didn't do it until after it was too late. If you don't follow the rules of a sport then you don't win. Period. I'm sure that wasn't the only mistake made, and who could say what would have happened had his score been correct. Paul could have gotten higher scores later in the comp and Yang lower. Shoulda, coulda, woulda, but didn't follow the rules. The CAS got it right.
💯 agree!! This is clearly just people being anti-usa and bitter betties (Jessica and Spencer are hyper radical leftists so it makes sense)
Fact check: There isn't an ivy league school on the West coast because the ivy league is an (NCAA) athletics conference. Understandable mistake because not a lot of people know this, but this is a sports podcast that is largely dedicated to college! The ivy league has gymnastics teams!
Gervasio deferr in 2008 floor final was robbed the gold
China stole that for themselves at home
I love Libby’s floor.
Chéng: It was English speakers all along
Will me-keyla skimper be an olympic commentator this year?
I hope not 🥴
Yes, on the Faux News recaps
On her own Instagram, maybe. She keeps talking about how she went to school for it, but if you listen to her speak, I think it would be a painful process with a lot of mistakes. Also, if anyone commented negatively on any of her commentaries, she would just block them and delete the comments. She’s been doing that constantly as of late. The comments section on all of her Instagram posts look like a bunch of cheerleaders praising her on right now and it’s super squeaky clean.
@amandastumpff5252 she reported me so many times. I've been getting 24-hour bans from commenting on RUclips all from her reporting me lol
I wish they would honor the specialists because we wouldn’t have seen McKayla’s amazing landing on her vault in team competition.
McKayla is a terrific AA gymnast actually. And she was supposed to compete on the floor as well if it wasn't for her broken foot
Spencer is TOOOOO cute! That's a scandal. :)
2nd lol
first 😂
Jessica, it's ironic that you call out MS for making "definitely racist in nature" comments "whether she knows it or not," yet you used the phrase "banana republic" 45 minutes earlier in the exact same podcast. Are you not aware of the racist nature of that phrase? You should be more careful of your words when you are accusing someone else of making "definitely racist in nature" comments "whether she knows it or not." (And just fyi, here are a few quick comments on "banana republic" found via a very quick google search. Here is one from 2021: "'Banana Republic' is a racist term of imperialist white supremacy, deployed to demonize Black and Brown people of the global South, and distract from the devastating consequences of colonialism and imperialism. What does this tell us about people using the term in this moment?" Here's another from a column: "Wikipedia defines it as 'a pejorative term for a small, often Latin American or Caribbean country, politically unstable, dependent on limited agriculture, and ruled by a small, wealthy and corrupt clique.' Wikipedia not only offers a history of the term, but also an explanation of how the term is used now." This is from a 2022 column: "The term is problematic because it makes light of the damaging consequences of imperialism, and because it was originally used by white people to disparage developing countries.")
I disagree about the “correct” spelling of the Cheng vault. The correct spelling should be Chung, because that’s how her name should be spelled in the first place! That’s how it is pronounced in English. There is no legitimate reason to spell it “Chéng” when it’s pronounced “Chung”. The fact of the matter is, her name is spelled WRONG, and that’s her family’s fault! The English alphabet uses Latin script, with pronunciations based on spelling of words within that script. The Chinese alphabet is different, so it’s not like they have some special tradition or heritage attached to a specific English spelling. When they Anglicize their names into English script, it’s up to them to choose the spelling which most correctly corresponds with how their name is pronounced in English. The point is, we don’t need to put an accent over a vowel to indicate a change in pronunciation. They should have just spelled it “Chung”, and then nobody would be confused.
That's not how chinese names work. The "accents" used in pinyin (latin letters used in chinese) indicate the tone and not the vowel lol. They don't know English, it's not spelled to fit into it but to romanize better the language and helps litteracy. Chinese uses characters.
Mykayla sympathizers complain about cancel culture, when the true victim is the brevet judge whose judging license was targeted by twitter mobs🥴
Elaborate please…
@@dayvaughnmonroe9540 A brevet judge said “pain me to say Simone has the worst music”. Simone later replied “no one cares”. She said later that the music is flat and comment on the structure, and she has no problem with Simone’s reply.
Then she’s cancelled and has the judging license targeted by twitter mobs. She’s harassed and deactivated her account.
@Nixmathis My stance is there is nothing wrong for both the brevet judge and Simone. The brevet judge pointed out music-related deductions. It's also within Simone's right to not change anything.
The brevet judge gave valuable feedback to American gymnasts like Jade Carey before, so what she said is valuable. She didn't seek attention and she's trained to catch deductions.
@Nixmathis The specific deduction pointed out was the music structure where there is lack of passage of music composed to link one section to another. It's like when one writes an essay, some transitional paragraphs are missing. But artistry deduction is judge dependent, so if judges are very generous, they may not take the deduction.
@NixmathisTwitter is made of unnecessary statements. This wasn't so different to most other tweets in that regard. Simone's tweet wasn't strictly necessary either, nor is most human conversation. That said, I doubt that any licensing board is under any serious pressure to withdraw their recognition. This too shall pass.
Wait so you guys just talked the whole time??!! how lazy can you be!! goodbye
Also 程菲 ~ piyin Chéng Fēi