Thanks for your channel, I've been learning a lot with you. I am from Brazil and I am having a hard time understanding what's happening with Catholicism in the US. In here Catholicism is growing again. Churches are full again, Very faithul catholics going, lots of Young big famílies thanks to the fruits of our dear Saint John Paul the II. We have a new generation of priests that are evangelizing through music and internet. Very ortodox in their preaching, but still compassionate and tradicional. Very hard to explain. But they are gathering everyday 500.000 people at 4 am to pray the rosary this lent. It's beautyfull!!! Both my parents were raised in the TLM and they completely lost their faith, they could care less for Church...
You are right about many of the trads being, in many ways, their own worst enemies. Many of us who would have identified with them at one time feel liberated shaking it off. Even on the liturgy - and I say this as someone who is very much old-rite in preference and who has grave reservations about all of the reforms from Pius X onwards - many are unwilling to consider any reform at all, even something like vernacular propers/lessons.
FYI - in your podcast about the dream team of JP II and Benedict, you mentioned that Benedict was one of the greatest homilists of all time. I Googled "Pope Benedict homilies" and it led me to a Vatican web site that lists his homilies. I selected "2009" for the year and then read the "1 December 2009" mass for the members of the International Theological Commission. What a great homily - his message, in short, was "You theologians ain't so cool"
Even Laudato Si, which was on the top of Pope Franciss agenda, was written by a committee. The issues he's dealing with now are the same ones pope benedict dealt with and in a very similar way. Not exactly the same. But very similar. All I popes promote both more liberal and more conservative bishops.
It's grating the way that Chapp can never make a point without engaging in caricature (including a mock voice for his opponents). If he could represent those he opposes without this constant caricature this channel would be much better.
I don’t agree with Larry completely about the “slipshod “ liturgies before the Council. Sure , there were priests who said the Low Mass quickly (my grandma loved those kinds of Masses) but it was hemmed in by the rubrics of Trent. There was not the room for the irreverence and ad libbing that the Novus Ordo could allow a priest who wanted to do that and God knows I experienced a lot of those sorts of Masses from the 70’s on Why did the nuns throw off their habits etc because Rome allowed their congregations to do that in the late 60’s which was completely in opposition to what Vatican II intended. A license was given and human beings being human , will take advantage. It wasn’t that the pre conciliar Church was just a house of cards
I think it was Belloc who considered priests suspect if they took LONGER than 30 mins to read Low Mass!😂 I can't stand it when liturgy is artificially drawn out. It should flow towards the sacramental coming of Christ.
@@iwattguitarthis makes one think of what’s the point of any part of the mass and whether it leads us to the summit. I wonder what’s the point of the gradual or any part that’s chanted when it’s only a few lines of text but is minutes to be chanted. I’m conflicted. I don’t mind a longer liturgy, however why were they made to be this way to begin with?
I agree on the difference between abuse the TLM and Novus Ordo. The Novus Ordo, by its design, is much more susceptible to abuse and poor celebration than the TLM. The difference in language and the orientation of the priest are huge components to it. Psychologically, using the vernacular while facing the people makes for a greater temptation and opportunity to turn the Mass inward on the priest and congregation. Whereas using Latin and facing Ad Orientem puts up a psychological barrier against inward self-focusedness.
@@chrisloftson6705 right, and it’s true that the zeitgeist of the novus ordo is much more like a Passover celebration than a sacrifice even though both are supposed to take place arguably with a greater focus on the sacrificial aspect. I think the Latin mass is an objectively better celebration and I pray it extends to all the earth, but I don’t think it would be the end of the church if it was eliminated. If the Church were the US It would be like if New York, Los Angeles, Dallas and Mount Rushmore were destroyed but the “country” of the Church would continue, albeit greatly damaged
Thanks for your channel, I've been learning a lot with you. I am from Brazil and I am having a hard time understanding what's happening with Catholicism in the US. In here Catholicism is growing again. Churches are full again, Very faithul catholics going, lots of Young big famílies thanks to the fruits of our dear Saint John Paul the II. We have a new generation of priests that are evangelizing through music and internet. Very ortodox in their preaching, but still compassionate and tradicional. Very hard to explain. But they are gathering everyday 500.000 people at 4 am to pray the rosary this lent. It's beautyfull!!! Both my parents were raised in the TLM and they completely lost their faith, they could care less for Church...
That’s hopeful, although there aren’t many Latin masses
Yay! So great to see Fr. Peter on with you!
You are right about many of the trads being, in many ways, their own worst enemies. Many of us who would have identified with them at one time feel liberated shaking it off. Even on the liturgy - and I say this as someone who is very much old-rite in preference and who has grave reservations about all of the reforms from Pius X onwards - many are unwilling to consider any reform at all, even something like vernacular propers/lessons.
What?????
Great guest Dr. Chapp!
Excellent discussion
This was a great discussion!
Fr. Totelben's work on Thomism and Palamism was great. Very smart man
FYI - in your podcast about the dream team of JP II and Benedict, you mentioned that Benedict was one of the greatest homilists of all time. I Googled "Pope Benedict homilies" and it led me to a Vatican web site that lists his homilies. I selected "2009" for the year and then read the "1 December 2009" mass for the members of the International Theological Commission. What a great homily - his message, in short, was "You theologians ain't so cool"
I love how even keeled this Father is.
Even Laudato Si, which was on the top of Pope Franciss agenda, was written by a committee. The issues he's dealing with now are the same ones pope benedict dealt with and in a very similar way. Not exactly the same. But very similar. All I popes promote both more liberal and more conservative bishops.
Chapp very profound on 8 minute mark on jp2 and catechism very profound
It's grating the way that Chapp can never make a point without engaging in caricature (including a mock voice for his opponents). If he could represent those he opposes without this constant caricature this channel would be much better.
👍🙏✝️🇻🇦⛪️
I don’t agree with Larry completely about the “slipshod “ liturgies before the Council. Sure , there were priests who said the Low Mass quickly (my grandma loved those kinds of Masses) but it was hemmed in by the rubrics of Trent. There was not the room for the irreverence and ad libbing that the Novus Ordo could allow a priest who wanted to do that and God knows I experienced a lot of those sorts of Masses from the 70’s on
Why did the nuns throw off their habits etc because Rome allowed their congregations to do that in the late 60’s which was completely in opposition to what Vatican II intended. A license was given and human beings being human , will take advantage. It wasn’t that the pre conciliar Church was just a house of cards
I think it was Belloc who considered priests suspect if they took LONGER than 30 mins to read Low Mass!😂 I can't stand it when liturgy is artificially drawn out. It should flow towards the sacramental coming of Christ.
@@iwattguitarthis makes one think of what’s the point of any part of the mass and whether it leads us to the summit. I wonder what’s the point of the gradual or any part that’s chanted when it’s only a few lines of text but is minutes to be chanted. I’m conflicted. I don’t mind a longer liturgy, however why were they made to be this way to begin with?
@@javaman8895 liturgy has traditionally been sung and that is actually a pre Pentecost practice, only rather recently a low mass was invented
I agree on the difference between abuse the TLM and Novus Ordo. The Novus Ordo, by its design, is much more susceptible to abuse and poor celebration than the TLM. The difference in language and the orientation of the priest are huge components to it. Psychologically, using the vernacular while facing the people makes for a greater temptation and opportunity to turn the Mass inward on the priest and congregation. Whereas using Latin and facing Ad Orientem puts up a psychological barrier against inward self-focusedness.
@@chrisloftson6705 right, and it’s true that the zeitgeist of the novus ordo is much more like a Passover celebration than a sacrifice even though both are supposed to take place arguably with a greater focus on the sacrificial aspect. I think the Latin mass is an objectively better celebration and I pray it extends to all the earth, but I don’t think it would be the end of the church if it was eliminated. If the Church were the US It would be like if New York, Los Angeles, Dallas and Mount Rushmore were destroyed but the “country” of the Church would continue, albeit greatly damaged
59.00 mark yes ditto parish life
The Province of St Joseph has produced many holy priests. Check out Godsplaining and the Hillbilly Thomists.