What Happened to Zoe? - Why NO ONE Plays Her Anymore | League of Legends
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- Опубликовано: 6 фев 2025
- Back with another Why NO ONE Plays! Today we're gonna be talking about what happened to Zoe: The Aspect of Twilight. Once known for being the most broken champion in the game, she's now a shadow of her former self, so let's explain why!
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#Zoe #LoL #WhyNoOnePlays
Well actually cars I saw a zoe in my last normal game meaning people still play her so please delte this video
He's Cars
He vroum vroum
HI Chime! I saw your ap varus video! I thought it was funny since that how I've always seen and played varus, but awesome still!
You should do a "how zoe mid got to Master", crazy off meta pick
report them.
How a youtuber managed to get to 160k subs with THE NAME CARS! (just a joke of course)
Also I think Zoe’s BIGGEST problem is she’s like one of the top 10 champs in the game for losing in champ select. Worthless into tanks, a joke to divers and assassins, yasuo can legit turn her off for 4 seconds, spell shields make getting picks nearly impossible. Only time zoe is good is when the enemy team is squishy and slow, which isn’t to often these days. Not to mention minions existing remove half your pressure like some kind of reverse irelia
Yes and no to the Yasuo bit. In a losing ranked game I still had the enemy Yasuo tell me I was terrifying mid-match. They tend to be a coinflip depending on skill, since a good Zoe can just throw a star around the windwall if it's already up.
@@DawnofHope still it exists, he’s a perma ban for me. It is of course possible to play around, he can always pop it to intercept a skill as opposed to deterring one as in he deletes your E and then just walks away. When you’re playing to Zoe’s obj control strengths and a yasuo isn’t an idiot, that one windfall can deny you full kills same as any spell shield but better
"Yasuo can legit turn her off for 4 seconds"
I mean, this is the same for like 90% of mages, since all of them have at least one projectile skill
@@kaiogiovanni yes but Zoe is meant to be played from back line, other mages either have plenty of abilities that don’t care and ways to get around a wall, plus they’re usually much further up and can just go around it. What is a zoe going to do when her team engaged a fight in the dragon pit that she’s behind to provide cover fire, then yas throws a wall and deletes her E, and she can’t get a shot on anyone else now. All you can do is wait or walk to a new angle either way you aren’t able to do ANYTHING for a while
@@kaiogiovanni Other mages have AOE spells that work without a projectile, like Syndra or Xerath W
Zoe's Q + W + E + Basic attack are ALL projectiles and if yasuo engages on you and presses W, you're just not allowed to play the game for 4 seconds.
That's what the OP is talking about, not outplaying the windwall. (Which you can't if Yasuo player has an actual brain and stays inside the windwall while you have a Q prepped.)
Short answer: Where everything oneshots after 15 minutes, you dont need a 1shot designed champion anymore. Same happend to Rengar. We officially in the *Power Creep Meta*
Zoe does a worse job at one-shotting than a lot of champions right now really. You need to have a clear line to an enemy for several continuous seconds to get off her max damage, and people generally know to get in her way now.
why should i play renagr zoe shaco, build full build to onehot when i can play yone 2 items or akali ( onehots wit boits and dshield) hmm just why should i play her lmao also ahri does her job rn better.
Kinda true
@@nsreturn1365 akali does everything but oneshot lmao that's like the one place where she's fair
@@boar6615 e auto q oneshots like every adc
As an adc main I can tell you, even pre-nerf Zoe felt more fair than most current and some old assassins.
If I got blasted by a Q either I got hit by E or they predicted my movements, I fucked up or they got in my head.
Now when I die 100 to 0 in 0.01 to say a Rengar coming at me with stealth at mach 10 and pouncing on me with an unavoidable death combo. That shit's wack, there's nothing I could do to save myself.
Give this man a medal
Like right, every single broken champion is way to easy, skillshots are just a bad joke.
Agree
As a person who plays every other role nothing feels more unfair than an adc killing me from range with unmissable nuclear auto attack missiles.
I think you missed the qtpie clip of him losing to her as jhin with only ignite and autos. If you are playing a skillshot mage and miss all your skillshots, you got outplayed and deserve to lose the 1v1.
She doesn't have 10 dashes in a single ability
Missing her E is a death sentence
The corrupted pot nerf
Assassins
I'm not gonna lie. She's one of the only few characters in the game whose abilities perfectly synergized.
syndra zoe orianna lux neeko cass
@@kfkf6569 syndra's kit is clunky, one Q E combo and you push your only sphere away. You have to step forward to use it for W, which is not very ideal for a burst mage.
@@kfkf6569 the only one i agree somewhat with is orianna, the other 4 aren't as well synergized
@@rocki7426 u mean not balanced or wt 🤔🤔
@@rocki7426 Yeh ori is just perfectly balanced though so thats to be expected.
I love her Spell Thief ability. It is like a mini-lottery; "you never know what you're gonna get" - it also fits her character
Zoe-main from low-elo here.
I think her main problem is the number of champions who can just close the distance in a matter of seconds. Unlike other explosive or artillery magicians, such as Lux, Vel'koz and so on, her damage mainly depends on the distance to the target.
Even if some Rengar jumps on you and you manage to put him to sleep, you will not do enough damage to kill him, in this situation you will either run away or die.
So if you are not fed as hell, basically you're standing in the very backline, even further away than Xerath, and waiting for the moment to catch someone. This is not a very entertaining gameplay for most people.
But if you win your lane and start a snowballing, the real fun will begin. One of the funniest moments is when someone tries to use a flash to escape from you. It never works.
Other gold Zoe Main here and i can confirm your comment. Very true
You said everything I came here to say as a gold Zoe player, at least on lux or Xerath you can just combo in front of you and it will most likely kill. Zoe doesnt have this luxury sadly
as a silver player I see the same problem
Me who just plays sett morde yasuo mid when I see Zoe hehehe
@@Local_commentor As a silver zoe main, i hate you. Have a nice day
I think she just has the Asol problem, in which she kinda has a "minimum effective range". She just can't do much against enemies that are right on top of her, which makes Zoe such a clunky champion to play. Her passive is basically the Sheen passive, her Q does very minimal damage at point blank, her W is conditional, her E is a terrible CC ability when used defensively because it instantly breaks in 1 hit and her R is also not good at helping her get out of danger. Combine that with the growing number of champions with high mobility in the game like Samira or Yone, she's going to have a bad time.
Literally point black e them, good Zoe players can do good into anything
She needs a rework honestly. the problem is although it's fine if you are a hypermobile champion, if your anything else she is just unpunishable and you can't win. It's the same thing with teemo and wether he is facing a tryndamere or a zoe. depending on the matchup you either are unpunishable or weak
Oh she absolutely can do much to enemy's on top of her. Mostly because she can run away, but aside from what... Two words - Lich Bane
yone can cleanse her bubble with his dash which cannot be helping her considering how popular a champ he is especially in mid. Every third or forth game you would lose unless the yone/yasuo is an idiot .
@@joebazooka5679 ban yone, yasuo doesnt counter zoe if your good at her. Her numbers are so inflated you can easily kill him without sleep
Zoe main here,
As of right now, I feel like Zoes biggest issue is honestly the new items. There's A LOT of W drops that she can't make much of a use of, and it genuinely sucks. Out of all AP items, the only ones with an active use are protobelt and everfrost, two really strong effects (and zhonya but that one you usually avoid like fire and pick up when it's really the last ditch effort, it rarely ever is useful on W), but they don't do that much damage. Back before the item change, you had gunblade and hextech GLP (both really high damage items, ESPECIALLY in early game.)
There was literally no item actives that Zoe couldn't make a good use of.
Now if you look at current items, you have quite a lot of them with similar effects (Shurelias, hextank, yuumus all giving movement speed) or low damage, if any (like Galeforce which AT ITS MAXIMUM deals less damage than hextech GLP dealt AT ITS MINIMUM [which btw highlights how insane that base damage was]), OR she can't even make a good use of them at all (Prowlers, stridebreaker, ironspike whip [it's a stridebreaker component which can still drop as a spell])
There's a high likely hood of dropping spells out of random minion drops that will be of no use what so ever. That makes her early to mid game usually tied to 2 abilities most of the time. I don't think people discuss this point enough. It gets even worse given our current meta, which favors champions building those items (which in turn means that they will drop more often). Even Youmuu's used to be much more popular, nowadays it's kinda rare to even pick it up tbh
Another issue is like you mentioned, the huge raise of mobility in the game, Zoe has absolutely no defensive tools at hand these days, and the mid meta is just not favorable for her anymore. Most mages aren't even played on midlane anymore and she can't really keep up with Katarina/Yone/Yasuo and so on. I don't think I ever won a zoe vs irelia match up by the way.
She's just another artilery mage that felt victim to riots high mobility obsession, but unlike Vel'koz or Xerath, Zoe can't go botlane since her only CC is sleep.
@@bruno.a7886 B
I mean I have been playing Zoe support a lot. She is excellent with like a Varus who also get a huge boon having upwards of two seconds to charge and aim at someone. A friend and I duo it all the time, and we regularly one shot anything caught in a sleep bubble. So her peel is subpar, sure, but if that is really what concerns you then run Glacial Augment and build Everfrost. I tend to go Night Harvester for the extra movement speed.
@@ZenubisSpyke 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
rank?
@@rafarabao6674 Plat 3, haven't played much this season tho
As someone whose first main was Zoe and still plays her (I began in season 10) I really feel like she’s situational, not weak even tho sometimes it feels like it, the problem is that even when fed if the enemy team has good frontline it is very very hard to be useful especially when she doesn’t have frontline. Also, shieldbow made killing ADCs near impossible, assassins can normally dash away or they are Kat and can kill through shieldbow but with Zoe you’d have to wait for a new entire rotation of spells AND hit them AGAIN. It is a bit frustrating. She is still fun tho and I don’t think I’ll ever stop playing her
This^ you could be 15/5 with her but if the enemy have good frontline theres not much you can do
im not gonna lie, i rather deal with tanks than assassins as zoe
Tbh Cringebow should be removed
Getting fed on Zoe half the time feels like nothing :/. A 0/7 yone can still kill you with one item and is instantly back in the game. Half the time you can't even 1shot because max range qs aren't really something you can do every fight, its mid range or short range so your damage is much lower. I agree though, ill never stop playing zoe because shes so much fun, and it's satisfying to combo even if i do pathetic damage to the fed darius heading to me at mach 5 because my top lane fed him
@@nem900 cringebow is such a stupid polarizing item. It is really good on about 3 adcs and the windshitters and irelia but on everyone else the dps is not fast enough for it to be viable to NOT be killed through the shield it provides
I think the worst part of playing Zoe is your teammates constantly popping the bubbles immediately giving your target a chance to dodge for free
Lol, same with Lillia
I actually remember people being quite excited to see zoe after the long and painful tank meta she seemed like a breath of fresh air. Then her abilities were revealed and people lost their shit
She isn't Lux, so no chocolate mooncake buffs therefore she's relegated to purely being a high elo pick.
At least her stars hurt like how you'd expect a star to hurt 😒Aurelion
I would agree if not for the latest patchnotes - just came out yesterday
unfortunately Zoes decline was the start of her release. The reworking of runes allowed a ton of needless damage on literally everything.
Now the 'rework' of items has turned everyone into 'if i hit you first, I win.' Which makes everyone Zoe.
Look at your death recaps, its usually 1 ability, 3/4 of that ability damage as items, 3/4 of it as runes, and ignite. They've frontloaded damage so much in this game that everyones an assassin reagrdless of their intentional role.
While her burst is high it doesnt allow to kill anyone without wasting sums or having W charged basically. So she's weaker than assassins, weaker than mages and just weak overall
She can burst away more than half your hp with continues Q R and if she lands an E late,she will will oneshot you. Saying zoe doesnt have damage is very cap
She can 1-shot squishi target but now days who can't, put in front of her a tank or even a bruiser and she can't do very much
Not true, some champs she outright one shots with max range Q, but not all, especially now with so many survival items, and even if she doesn’t one shot it’s a massive chunk of HP. Her problem with front lines a huge downside to her. She can even chunk out a tank, which is great, but now she doesn’t have a combo for another 8-10 seconds to deal with the back. Not to mention the fact she can kill some bruisers if you proc W and get a full combo off. She melts stuff like Cammile, Gwen and irelia who rely on heal over time rather than being a stat stick
You're either bad with her or triggered, she has more dmg than any mage in the game. Her only issue is that she's very hit or miss; you hit you win, you miss you die. You saying that Zoe doesn't have dmg is laughable at best, she doesn't have consistency, meaning you either hit everything and win or miss and get blasted doing no dmg.
Her dmg isn't the problem, it's her kit in general. (Not because it's bad, it's just hard)
@@garou9914 Damn, im not triggered so i must be bad...
I'm not saying she cant one shot, im just saying everyone else does it better than her, any other assassin can one shot better and easier. Even if she has more damage than other mages, every other mage can one shot squishies if they hit their CC.
I really like Zoe for her actually fair kit (surprise) and that she get punished bigtime when you can close the distance to her with someone like Malphite or Rakan. Watching a good Zoe is also just amazing, but I must say she sucks in high mobility enemy comp (especially Yone), when her team is losing (no vision, no bubble), or when she is the only fed member of her team and the rest are macro morons (in Gold and below). Really like her design, unique and pretty fun without eliminating her class vulnerability
I think its more about how she is actually single target mage despite her Q technically being aoe. Unless she can one shot with E Q she really is useless in fights.
May delete this soon but I can confirm in gold/silver where team fights are just dog on the closest enemy, Zoe hard struggles when her team is behind because she relies on the enemy to fight her team while she blows up the enemy squishy carries from a long angle but it's really hard when the team is dead, you can be very fed but if there's no vision or good team set up Zoe can't carry fights and it makes me sad cause she's the only mage I enjoy playing.
@@CosyBlu It's why I just focus on Viktor, Ryze and Vex now. I can be extremely fed on Zoe, and it's such a struggle to carry, whereas it's a breeze on the other three.
FAIR KIT! bro! her kit isn't fair at all. It straight up just says "You will play a hypermobile or ranged champion or lose". That's not fair at all!
@@Mori-man hypermobile? One dash and you win? You call that hypermobile?
I'm a Zoe main (one of the few in iron) and although I love her to death I can definitely agree that she has these issues. Laning against many characters is an absolute pain, especially popular assassins like Yone, Yasuo or Katarina. Esp Yone is unplayable because your sleepy disappears when he recasts his E. Despite these pains however, her kit is incredibly fun and diverse, and no game you play with her is like the last. You have a ton of options on how to play her and so many ways to optimize your combos. Getting that squeaky clean full combo on someone in makes you feel like a god (assuming it kills ofc) and her character, design, skins, sound effects and voice lines are a joy. So yeah. I know I get countered by something as simple as minions, but she's still the most fun I've ever had in league, especially since I don't play ranked (hence the iron). So to me her difficulties into many match ups only make the game more challenging and exciting :D
She is literally the annoying trickster archetype of character. While they have the upper hand they will make your life hell (Think Jerry/Tweety bird versus Tom/Sylvester). But as soon as you catch them they are helpless unless someone saves them.
So the adc role?
@@shgalagalaa right lol
*Every squishy champ in the game*
I picked up Zoe today and it’s actually really fun a mage you play like an assassin in lane and a line nuke it’s really fun
Yeah her gameplay is very fun and interesting
Zoe is the champion that got me playing league being my first otp but over the years it's been much harder carrying games in comparison to other champs that I've picked up much more consistent harder carry champs that actually feel like the time I put into them pays off in the end which hurts since I still have fond memories of playing her but now things just aren't it I really hope they can fix her in a way that makes her viable just not oppressive
So sad because Zoe is so fun to play to me and also I love the bubbly character and design she has compared to the edgy, it's-just-a-phase-mom designs of many of them, or half of them that are just straight up meh. But hey, is what it is, at least I enjoy playing with her in LoR
Zoe is my main mid laner. Spell thief is indeed incredibly inconsistent as a defensive tool, and in my opinion as of now it’s main purpose is to give you lane and early game pressure when she’s lacking in items and this damage as well as team fight presence since as you said before, she can’t blow everyone up in a team fight like other mages do. But she can go god mode with 8 consecutive actives while throwing 2k damage at people.
Man, i miss the redemption in minions
Vars is Varus without U. He is implying that he is still single and seeking for a romantic relationship.
I always craved to play Zoe for having that Tzeentch-like experience (magic burst from afar, jumping like crazy, cheating with using extra summoner spells etc.), but after nerfs I always felt she's just worse Nidalee
Yeah! I feel more safe and i do more damage playing Qbot Nidalee, honestly
tbf, if you want to play her, do it. as a zoe main i really enjoy her
as a zoe one trick myself i must say that my poor mooncake with crown of the shattered queen and immortal shieldbow not to mention generally the meta even if she snowballs even if she scales she cant really do much by herself to save the day. its really sad i really pray she gets buffed and by buffed i mean a serious one what is that 10 less mana cost on q and r siiiiigh... she will always be my favorite regardless
But i have one question for u... Why play Zoe having Xerath for example?
Xerath can hit Q between minions, E is instant CC...
@@victor6305 well despite his consistent cc xerath isn't really the type with the godlike mobility, ya can catch him off guard many times and it's an easy one shot with full combo. Ya can r through minions and behind him and dodginf his abilities with r can work too. Just wants good synchronization
My favorite way to play Zoe is support with Glacial/Everfrost and focusing on long range CC and using ult for deeper/safer vision as opposed to damage - it works fantastically with a Jhin or a Caitlyn who can follow up on the sleep with their own CC - have to ban Morg though, and I pretty much never first or even second pick it. Relic shield to get your balloons, and being in a lane against a duo gives you twice the summoners to pick up. I do think she could use an update - but I absolutely love the chaos of spell thief so I'd be sad to see that completely changed.
Now, the reason I gravitated SO HARD towards Zoe's kit is because for a long time (that time has not yet concluded) I was better at (and still am better at) skill shots than I am clicking on the enemy.
So there's my response to what you say at 7:50.
I am so excited for this episode wow. This is my 2nd main on this series! (The other one is Lissandra) keep it up Cars (😉)
Edit: I hope y'all know I meant to say cars 👀
Cars XD
Cars
Cars
my mains liss zoe neeko leblanc
I mained Zoe ever since she came out and she main her ever after the nerfs. Honestly I think the only reason people play her is for her unique gameplay as even though people compare her to old nidalee, nidalee had to just throw a spear for burst damage while zoe be much more expressive with her one shot combo, for example, wait what summoner spell she gets from minion and since is random you can approach it depending on what spell thief slot you have, then either you can throw bubble near edge of a wall to land it, then do the Portal Paddle Star combo with Spell theif and passive to finish off, or if you feel confident and you picked up a flash you can flash and deal w passive damage at the enemy, land point blank bubble and if you miss somehow you have a second flash to escape and maybe even bait them a kill, or if you land then have fun and do the portal paddle star combo. And if all that fails, zoe has one of the safest minion farming with her paddle star doing area damage at such a long distance and when you do farm enough you can try again and try hitting then enemy again. But is true that no one can just pick up zoe, you need at least some experience and some idea what you can do with zoe, and honestly I don't mind that at all for a champion to be that way, either people try it and if they enjoy the champion they will continue play it no matter how difficult or bad a champion is, and zoe fits perfectly balanced as a champion do you do need to be good at playing her to win games now, after the nerfs. She sometimes might be unplayable in some match ups but the damage is still there, you can still hit your abilities to objectives and poke damge with her. Also fyI one of the easiest champions to steal dragon or baron when jungle don't have flash or isn't there which is a plus. And as for her design I think is fine to have disney looking champions in the game as it brings more variety it league design archetypes and zoe being a trickster god stuck in a 14 year old body is honestly funny and fun to annoy your enemies. Star Guardian Zoe is her best skin and I wish it was a legendary skin so we can have some voicelines of her speaking evil stuff to people as I think it would fit more for zoe to be evil like, like maybe trickster god Loki, bit those are just my opinions.
look at zoe man , so inspirational
zoe from way downtown bang bang
@@kfkf6569 I started play league about a year ago and almost immediately after starting, zoe caught my eye for her chaotic witty and playful playstyle. So I decided I want to be a Zoe main. I picked up Zoe without even knowing the basics of league. But I was really determined because she really speaks to my soul and I think I got really decent both in league and in Zoe. I still have a long way to go but my point is that if you really want to you can get good at Zoe. But you need to constantly search for your mistakes and learn from them. Also macro and wave management is really important. But that goes for every champ. Anyway ima stop bubbling. I wish you all fun and success on your games!
@@christyvlacho2829 nice to see zoe mains out there , hope could see u on the rift :)
a zoe syndra leblanc main ;)
Personally i love to play zoe, but i can agree on most of the points. Zoe has a lot of problems against newer champions especially nearly unplayable against yasuo and yone. I would go that far to say she has not a single good matchup. Blindpicking her is basically trash, because the enemy can pick everything they want as long as they know what they do and how to position. Assasines can one hit you, tanks block the q´s and so on. Even in mages like lux you have to play careful, because one wrong r and you cc yourself enough for her to hit q e r and you are dead. She needs to snowball early to even be able to one shot later. If you are really ahead you still get that terrifying e q damage that can even nearly kill a tank, but in the average game you won't get there. If you are behind you can maybe half life the enemy adc if you are allowed to hit them at all. In Solo q she´s even harder to play, since you don't have a team you can't flank and take out an important person, people engage on sleeps and so on. Zoe is in my opinions nothing more than an ap assasine that wants to flank or hit you out of vision. Especially since her only defensive cc ability is easy dodgeable and needs time to active after hitting, while a single auto attack can break it. And her ultimate is ccing herself, which sucks in every high mobility champ. To that her W is random mess. Yes, it can be agressive with ignite or defensive with flash, but getting those requires someone to use them or to drop them. It's sometimes a fitting one, but in many situations you dont get dropped anything that fits into the situation except the movementspeed and dmg. She´s a very cool and fun champion, but she could need some changes. She´s hard to pickup and even harder to master.
If you're good at trading you should be able to outrade yasuo pre 6. Problem is after that
@@dr.nightmare9093I’ve completely dumped on a yasuo legit he had 10 deaths he built pre nerf mythic immortal shield with attack speed boots and I could never 1v1 him again unless I hit really good bubbles lol
I've been one-trick maining zoe ever since her release date and while I still love her, I don't play her as much anymore since seasons 11 and ESPECIALLY 12. This season is the worst for zoe especially since league is now so full of everything that counters her :C
Zoe-turned-Katarina main here (Peaked G4 before I stopped caring for ranked, could probably climb higher now but can't be bothered). Honestly, Zoe is still one of my favorite champions in terms of gameplay for the precise yet explosive damage she deals, combined with the creative options her Spell Thief brings to the table. The problem that I often ran into (aside from the ones listed in the video obviously) is that most low MMR players don't really have a good grasp on the advantage states of Zoe. The problem I often ran into was that everyone would see enemy champions and immediately decide to engage (either that or we'd have no vision anywhere). As a result, I could never thin out the enemy front or backline before a fight started, and since fights tend to be so short and frenetic, I wouldn't have much impact during a teamfight.
To wrap this up, I wouldn't say I'm a Zoe main anymore, not by a long shot. I mainly play assassins now, actually. Regardless, she will always be a pocket pick I can bring out for a bit of fun, and she will still always be my favorite champion, even if I prefer Katarina's gameplay as much or more. Zoe is just... she's Zoe!
Vars: Zoe One trick not worth
Me: Zoe one trick anyways
I have 2 ideas for changing Zoe. Both are pretty simple but would make her easier to play. But could add a layer to her:
1) to fix her W, just remove the picking up abilities thing. Make it have a cooldown. Boom solved lol. Pressing W should just give her the speed boost and 3 homing stars (can’t remember if those are still a part of the ability but if not, add them back). This gives her an ability that she can use and can’t time, it doesn’t rely on rng and luck drops. But it also gives an easy to land source of damage. The 3 homing stars would be short range, so that buffs up her close range problem. Because her Q does more damage far, so it’s poop up close. Might be too similar to Ahri W though…
2) add a second cast to her ult. R1=current ult. R2 can only be pressed at your portal location. R2 cancels her ult and let’s her stay on the other side of the portal. And while I’m at it, I realized she’s a trickster with no tricks. That’s lame. So her ult gets a trick element. Don’t press R2? Leave a clone at your portal location. Press R2? You remain there but a clone returns to your original location. The clones just use a taunt or joke animation. But they can trick your opponents, because your animations look the same, people just have to think about it for a half second. But she needs to be more playful and actually be a trickster
1: no? removing that would be lame, and making it close range even worse
2: wtf mate
i think she should stay like this, as a zoe main with 500k (not much but still) i think she is perfect the way she is
@@a.v.e.r.y._. I like her current W too. It’s quirky and unique. But Vars doesn’t, so I’m addressing her for the sake of debate
@@a.v.e.r.y._. and as for 500k, for those of us not pro streamers, not in pro play, and not wildly addicted…that’s a lot yeah. I think I have around 600k on Shyvana and I feel like it’s a lot 🤷🏻♂️
As a 3 millions Zoe totally with 5 accounts on every elo: No.
Her problem is her DMG in survive ability, not kit.
The best they can do make some hp% DMG on tanks (if target has more than 2k health, blablabla..) and make her e actually Save her. 80% of champs can kill her before they fall asleep.
@@lixuecheng 🙄
MY MAIN!!!
Fr tho, excellent video highlighting a lot of her prominent problems, but also the exact reasons I love her! That unforgiving skill ceiling makes her so satisfying to master imo.
10:05 Vars hates Yone so much he can't even bring himself to say his name
Zoe falls into the same pitfall of effective range as A. Sol and Lillia, where they need to be the perfect range away to maximize their pressure, and when they are at their most effective range it is disgustingly apparent, but if they aren't they practically aren't champs.
Zoe' w is half of why her laning phase works though :/. Zoe needs to get ahead early through lane bullying and w lets her win all-ins early before she gets access to her ult. And if you fall behind or have a mediocre laning phase, her w still has value in team fights, where you can assist with spells and her e turning into a secondary support if you lack damage. Sure, you might not have good damage, but a successful bubble can help your fed Miss Fortune get an essential kill in a team fight. Or maybe that ignite or heal you picked up let you make a crucial play to assist your team. I love playing her and landing her full combo, but so many games devolve into you playing secondary support because your lane went pretty even and there's like 3 bruisers and tanks on the enemy team and your damage isn't enough because you couldn't snowball. There's also Zoe's scaling not being all that great ig, but that's honestly how it should be with her kit. But yeah, changing w too drastically just kills a lot of how Zoe makes an impact in fights, cause lets be real youre not getting max range qs in a chaotic team fight where you need to focus that Irelia down asap. Her talent also isnt an issue, because she really relies on it early for more consistent wave clear, and it gives pretty vital synergy with lichbane which gives Zoe so much more consistency. Every part of her kit fits together pretty well, it's just that she's not meta and honestly thats okay. A champ doesn't need to be meta to be fun.
I completely agree. Zoe is really well designed and is CLEARLY not meant for everyone and that's what makes me so drawn to this sparkly child.
Such a nice champ. I hit mastery 7 on her today. I saw only 3 other zoes in my entire life, what is actually quite sad 😢
Just rank up to Diamond or more, she's a lot more popular there
The angles you can play with when you play zoe make her very fun. She's a champion I only play every once in a while even if I want to get good at her. She's a champion that takes raw games over anything else.
Zoe has the same problem as an ADC, if sb gets close enough to you, then you're probably dead, but it's more notorious in zoe as it means in a reduction of her damage, when an ADC can deal the same damage as in max range and they have the advantage that auto-attacks can't be dodge/missed
A big point I didn't see you or comments bring up is that she is VERY team reliant especially when it comes to vision. She needs vision to make a lot of plays since one of her strongest abilities is being able to use her E though walls. I think that is the biggest contributor to why you see her winrate rise as you climb the ladder because any Zoe main can tell you how much of a difference there is playing with and without vision.
I'm not even going to start on teammates hitting sleeping targets...
She kinda reminds of of Blitzcrank in that she feels like a specialist in how she's designed, but her specialty is close enough to another class that she isn't labeled as such.
I honestly still love and enjoy playing Zoe when I'm bored and given the chance to. It's the total ability to look at someone over a wall and just one touch combo them with a sleep and DH that gives me a burst of adrenaline. I do agree with one of the points thought that's my current copium. That being the majority of my matchups now that I have to play against aren't fun considering that everyone and I mean EVERYONE including their grandmothers playing only assassins in the mid lane. If I have to face nothing but assassins in the mid lane, I'd rather just take zoe into support and deal with perma sleeping a tank supp rather than having to deal with 20 billion dashes from a yasuo, yone's entirely balanced spirit form cleansing my sleep, irelia's healing and free trading on q, zed being zed, and qiyana just doing qiyana things.
Part of me wonders if this is why I can't find ways to have fun in League anymore but I might just be tunnel visioning on the fact that the windshitters (yasuo and yone) and literally all other ionian champs just make me hate life.
As someone who has played Zoe since launch and still plays her very frequently, I think the majority of her issues in modern league come from current champion metas and itemization. A lot of the new ap items just don't benefit her much if at all which limits her build options. On top of that there are vastly more ad active items than ap ones, which I often find myself bitching about when trying to get spell thief items from minions. You are far more likely to pull a Goredrinker, Stridebreaker or Prowlers Claw from a minion than any summoner spell or the 2 ap items that are in rotation. Those 3 items are absolutely useless to pick up for Spell Thief. Tanks or tanky bruisers are quite common in the meta right now too and having more than 1 on an enemy team is typically enough to stop her from being able to burst carries unless you get really creative with angles, but that typically leaves you out of position when most characters these days have great mobility and can exploit that almost immediately. I love Zoes playstyle, she is a fun character but I typically don't pick her unless both my main is banned/picked and I'm later in the pick order and can see if the enemy team is stacking tanks or not.
as something of a Zoe main myself her Sleepy Trouble Bubble has the jankiest hitbox, thank you and good day
She needs a simple buff: More Q damage against slept targets that are close to her and to remove the TRASH that W drop sometimes.
Zoe is a lot of fun, but I find her inconsistency a deterrent. I got her to Mastery 7 post nerfs, but I would never take her to ranked as is.
I was a Zoe OTP but kinda stopped playing her because at least at Low Plat or lower, if your team is behind and bleeding vision control, it is so insanely hard to setup your pickoffs/poke angles, it's so hard to use your kit effectively if enemy team can easily close the gaps
as a Zoe main, I totally agree with you, I play her only because she's the only champ I like
I think it's 3 things;
1) deceptively unique playstyle
2) probably the highest skill floor and skill ceiling mage
3) the item rework was unkind to her
2) probably the highest skill floor and skill ceiling mage
you forgor about asol
@@fear_is_nearcz who?
@@fear_is_nearcz having played quite a lot of both (a lot more Zoe) Zoe's skill floor is much higher. She's way easier to kill and therefore it's brutal to get and stay ahead of you don't know how to play her. A. sol has an almost opposite problem of it being difficult to do any damage, but it's a lot easier to not get anhiliated in lane
Riot: An artilery mage shouldn't have so much mobility and close range damage.
Also riot: Kai'sa can chunk 90% of your health with one W while spamming 1k damage Q every few seconds
I love the new editing, Vars. VIdeos look a bit more "tidy" this way. One thing I notice (can't tell if it's a first or not) is that you didn't suggest a way to "fix her". In the end of the day it's close to impossible to make *every* champion have a big pickrate. One thing I like about Zoe, is that she kind of leans on the "artillery" class, which gives me hope, that riot might someday move on from the "everyone can dive you" meta in current champion design.
Here's my pitch as a Zoe player, keep everything the same but make her bonus e damage deal % true damage based on max health instead. Adjust numbers so that she can still 100-0 adcs in the right situations and it lets her actually deal more than 200 damage to a tank past 20 minutes. As far as mid laners go Zoe has some of the worst scaling in the game by far and becomes unplayable in late game unless their whole comp is squishy.
finally a good change proposal i can get with
I play Zoe, a lot and yes I understand the video and why she cant always be that great, but like a lot of other champs if you master it well enough you can find a way to vs almost any type of enemy even if they are Tanky or have spell shields. Adc's are usually the best option for a Zoe if all else fails and she can become super strong when it comes to roaming bot early. When it comes to champ select counter picking is what almost everyone does anyways no matter the champ you pick. But if you can play your character well enough it doesn't matter if someone counters you.
Basically, Zoe suffers the same problem as 90% of the forgotten champs of this game: Riot's incompetence in balancing their own champions without completely killing them. It's either that, or the newest champions are just better overall that it's completely unfair.
I main Zoe since her release and I have two accounts nowadays. One games play around d2-master (higher mmr), 70%wr on zoe and another gold-plat (lower mmr, which I usually play with friends or just casually), 60% wr on zoe. I can safely say that the problem with Zoe isn't Zoe herself, but what she proposes to the game. She is extremely reliant on her team, and her team also NEEDS to know how to play around her, she usually works as a cornerstone that should be played around. The real problem is, even on d4-d3 people didn't know about those details on her team play. The lower the elo, the less people know how to play with her on their team.
Also, I had more games on the 70% wr and all the games were a lot easier, due to teamwork. The lower elo was just hell
the fact that people still don't know that if you hit people while asleep they wake them up >:[
or that you should let zoe hit the bubbled person 90% of the time, no insted they wake him up with a low damage ab, then is my fault if the darius low hp wakes up and kills 3 people
@@a.v.e.r.y._. Exactly! And for some reason people also think that Zoe can somehow farm sidelanes and aram mid denying her cs
My biggest issue with her really is late game syndrome because even if I manage to win lane and carry so much her q does damage depending on the distance and if the enemy is in my nexus I can’t do much so I’m basically tickling them
I think her kit is pretty close to balanced. Her passive could use like +3%AP more, while its not that much extra damage allow her to do some chip damage
Since Cars doesn't put what song he uses, i'll help anyone that is looking for it.
The background song used in this video is: "Pokémon Super Mystery Dungeon OST - First Dark Matter Battle" also known as "Pokémon Super Mystery Dungeon OST - Final boss Phase 1"
I remember when Zoe came out. I thought it was stupid that they reworked Nidalee's Qs power budget so it doesnt one shot you from a screen away, and not too long after, they introduced another mage that was one shotting you from a screen away. If that wasn't enough, she could bubble you from a screen away so it's impossible to even dodge it
You can dodge the E skillshot though...
i love when Zoe E goes right through enemies yet Morgana somehow hits hers 3 metres away from me
Almost every champion has a broken ability hitbox - *except Zoe*
Zoe's biggest problem is you can't carry, not enough waveclear for that, if your team feeds it's gg you are not a viego or mordekaiser. I have over 300 games on zoe and with really good stats only a 51% wr
Im a zoe main, and one thing i can see is that; she is not for people with skill issue. And being very honest, the only thing that does counter you are tanks; it's not like u didn't have to hit a small skillshot before the mobility 200 years champions were added; sure, the mobility helps them to dodge, but it doesnt help u to hit them, soo if u couldn't hit skills before and can't hit them now, it's not like riot adding moblity is going to change that; and for players that could hit them, adding more moblity to the game will make it more difficult, but not change it too drastically to the point they are going to stop hitting them suddenly, a good player stays a good player unless they stop playing the game. I think zoe is one of those champions that people play because they see someone doing well, don't hit shit and say that the champion is bad, consequently hurting her play rate and win rate. Contrary to people's belief, she can do something to enemies on top of her, hit her E! And if u dont have it, too bad, any mage without their key skill or stun is going to die to a champion that gets up and close and has the advantage on that state; and zoe even has an advantage in that regard because of her W.
True words my dude !
I'm a one trick Zoe, I'm gonna tell this, Zoe is basically any toplaner, if you pick first, your lane is going to be hell, it's that there are some easy matchups (4: Vladimir, Ekko, Sylas and Talon), any other matchup is at least a hard matchup, and so many of the popular picks right now is a losing matchup unless they're extremely bad. Is hard to carry, because the MR is a huge cockblock in any champion, just Mercuri boots are more than enough to negate any oneshot in midgame and in lategame, is hard to catch any carry with the bubble without a tank in the middle the firelane to absorb all the damage. To sume up, don't try to main her unless you really love her kit, is hard and frustrating the learning curve is probably the hardest in the game
I played her a ton in 2018. But I dropped her when I realized I'm useless as long as there's a tank on the enemy team because they can just body-block all my damage.
Would be cool if Zoe’s current passive would be passive of her q, and her W would be basic passive. And w get new ability
From reading the comments a lot of y'all are confused. Zoe's strength is mid game picks and playing utilising fog of war. Zoe's ideal situation is getting to an objective first with her team and abusing her e. This playstyle is not very strong in solo queue or competitive at the moment though. Zoe relies so heavily on bring the one to engage/interact first that if she doesn't or can't, she's pretty dog.
She's extremely comp reliant though. Like if your bot or top fed to the point where having prior on objectives is difficult, then you might as well be playing any other poke champ and she is terrible at disengage or counter engage (stand your ground champs).
The best fights I have with Zoe are usually the 2v2s with my jungler during the laning phase at the river
She's still such a fun champion to play though. I put some timr and effort into learning her about a year ago and now she's the only champ I can have consistently good results with. Her gameplay and visual design are so on point, I absolutely adore this champion.
You should do a video of the champions that received a rework after your “why no one plays” video, I would like to hear your thoughts. I love your videos. Keep the good work !
8:50
Vars, you are a GENIOUS. Why has no one thought of doing this!?!?! It actually makes so much sense though, if you are a tank, you can actually step INFRONT of your backline!? You earned a thumbs up from this guy.
So as a zoe main, I think her problem is exactly as you said, she struggles against heavy tank comps or assassin comps, and learning her was very difficult so thats also a reason why she’s unpopular, I think a lot of people tried her out and found her clunky, and gave up on her
She’s clunky at the start but once you understand how her Q works she feels really smooth to play
Half the champion played in soloQ are assassins so if a champion isnt good against them probably wont do to well
Honestly Zoe is strong, if you can land the E you're good. However that's the problem. If you can land your E. Zoe has no escapes aside from her w if you consider picking up flash. That's all Zoe has. Her R has limited range and a decently long CD considering everything else. That said, all she needs is a number buff. Or a kit rework. Either or she could be an instant problem like Azir and Kalista if she were given the smallest buff.
Still my main today
using electrocute and inspi runes
Statik-ludens-lich bane-raba-flex item
still op af
It his hard to farm and push lane with zoe , it is hard to pressure lane just like most liked comment said " reverse irelia " , almost every champ one hits her...
i didnt played 4 seasons , last time i was playing actively was zoe frist released, i came back and picked zoe , and i cant even farm ! It is broken in opposite way 😂
As a Zoe main, you really need to be smart in how you make use of her poke due to Zoe being rewarding if the max dmg or her q hits but dangerous if Zoe gets too close to her enemy. It is satisfying though if I get to hit my e q combo every time :>
Can it be that every mage has a problem but specially Poke/long range mages?
This is my opinion as high elo player who mains mages
As rework I mean a real rework or something simple
Ahri: Got reworked and now she is god
Anivia: Got reworked and now she is god
Annie: She is good but bad in high elos.
Asol: He is getting a rework soon so...
Azir: He is a very high elo champion and because of it he needs a rework.
Brand: He was a midlaner, but his bad design for mid and assasins meta didn't help him. In my opinion he needs more range on R
Cassiopeia: Good and balanced champion
Heimerdinger: He is good but his playstyle is like wtf. Maybe a rework would be good.
Karma: She is the best champion. She can be a good peeler or a poker whenever she wants. And that's a problem.
Khartus: I don't know how riot didn't think that this champion wasn't gonna lose every lane. 0% defensive and his power is on his R.
Lissandra: She is actually a very good pick
Lux: Same problem as brand but atm she is very good as a mid.
Malzahar: A good champion. Maybe to east to counter.
Morgana: She was supposed to be a midlaner but well...
Neeko: I don't know what is this champion supposed to be.
Orianna: A little like Azir, a high elo champion.
Ryze: HE NEEDS LIKE HIS 10TH REWORK AGAIN
Seraphine: Is she a champion? She looses every lane as a mid and at the same time is the worst enchanter. She needs a rework to make her good as a support or midlaner. In my opinion Sera needs some kind of evolution where she can choose being a mage or peel.
Swain: I don't think he'll return to mid with the new changes but we'll see!
Syndra: I don't know what is her problem but maybe is because she can be a poker while she can be an assasin.
Taliyah: Getting a rework soon and it seems to be good for Taliyah in jg, mid, supp and even apc.
Twisted Fate: Very good champion but requeires macro (map vision). Is bad at dealing damage.
Veigar: Good champ. Bad at high elo and vs assasins. Short range and very easy to counter (that's why he is a low elo champ)
Vel'Koz: Assasins destroy him. Main reason why he is most played as a support but buffs are coming and we'll see.
Vex: Good job riot
Viktor: After the rework and the meta made him as one of the best mages.
Vladimir: Good champion.
Xerath: Same as velkoz
Ziggs: Same as Velkoz but instead of supp is apc
Zyra: Supposed to be a midlaner but it happened to her the same as Brand.
This list shows the main problems of each champ, but a lot of mages don't seem to represent the midlane as a role (Lux, Xerath, Vel'Koz, Seraphine, Ziggs, Zyra, Brand, Taliyah, Morgana, Khartus, Swain), others just don't work (Azir, Asol, Orianna, Ryze, Syndra) because of high elo mechanic.
Riot needs to do something about mages. A lot of mages are just running away from mid.
Brand's main problem is his self locking animations and easy to doge W
Karthus is fine, he takes skills to land isolated Q
I’ve been waiting for and good job
i think you should of also mentioned that she is best in a advantage state and pretty useless when behind or at a disadvantage stage since its hard for her to deal with a fed team
Make the diana treatment, Change the W with the R and remove the ability to steal summoners and actives. Rework her.
LOVE HOW THIS COMES OUT AND I GOT 3 GAMES IN A ROW PROVING WHY THIS CAME OUT IN THE FRIST PLACE :(
but problems aside, she actually really is a fair champ with good strengths, weaknesses, and a certain niche. I still love playing this champion to this day even though it isn't as much as other seasons.
Not sure this is within the scope of the types of videos you do, but I think a cool idea could be about why some types of champs are "allowed" to be good for long stretches of time, even years, in high elo/pro play, and some barely get a patch of relevance. For example, Leona has been a huge pick in pro play for what is going to be 2 years and yet she doesn't get nergs or attention in patch notes. We have just HAD to watch her for so long, why is she allowed to be good in pro play for so long when others get nerfed after a single patch of pro relevance
cause riot said so
So that she can sell more skins, duh.
Cuz she's not problematic
@@dr.nightmare9093 I don't think it should be about problematic, it's just so boring. It's fun to watch Leona press all her buttons on an adc and have them not move until the next day anymore.
i main her and i dont want anyone else play her
1 million otp zoe. i can say that a bit of that information is true, but on the other side u can still kill people with ignite and w on lvl 2-3 and so on. so i can say if u one trick her u can gain a lot lp from her kit and carry games easily. now a bit bad meta champs in mid vs her so it became a lil hard to play her now but still ok
200m zoe here , sup zoe is future of zoe , try it with jhin, ezrael or cait
I run her in Support role, focusing on W and E, with Q to provide some poke scare, and deal with kayn players.
I play her supp too, it's actually pretty satisfying
You haven’t done a new why everyone plays in a while. I think a good counterpart to Zoe with why everyone plays would be Lux or Zerath! I’d like to see these sometime
7:41, I normally build Zoe as a snowball burst mage, either I win early with corrupting pot and get dark seal stacks, or she's pretty hard to get a lot out of.
its so funny a champion this interactive is viewed as satan and yone is deemed "fine". I think zoe is no more rage inducing and frustrating than any of the edgelord champs, they get a free pass tho because they sell more skins to incels that fantasize about being the main anime character. Id rather play vs zoe every game than zed yone and master yi, as far as bad design and counterplay in league of legends goes; zoe is fcking decent.
People just blindly hate her. Yone alone is full of BS but gets the free pass.
@@broccoli4487 lets be clear- people hate yone too, but yone is never nerfed to the ground, orianna was viable for half a patch and she got insta neutered, not our boy yone tho, he is the top pic for years and will be for years to come. New season mage items seem decent, wanna bet they get nerfed to oblivion? Mages dont get to be viable, not for long, not in this edgelord game. We made a magical world with so much potential so the only logical conclusion was to reduce it to idiots hitting eachother with sharp stat-sticks. A game with skilshots dominated by point and click statchecking.... how wonderful 👏 . And no dear yone main, do not delude ur self into thinking you have skilshots , ive seen ur hitboxes, its literally harder to miss than to hit ur spells and even when you do you just run at ppl with lethal tempo, kill them in 3 autos and teleport back to your fountain - nidalee spear is a skilshot, and an eloinflated lot like yone mains would never hit it in a million years!
@vlahobukovac3417 even after six months this sht is so true it makes me wanna cry bruh 😭
@@sajad2633 well in the meantime we have had stellar new designs like nafiri briar and belveth..... we have buffed a role of point and click statcheckers that win late by default to the point 5 adc teamcomps were considered "a healthy meta" and we have made leaps and bounds to making skilshots even less relevant, and in the long term brought about the era of sratchecking and dick measuring contests between onclick ape "mage" champions like kata diana and friends that "skillfully" click on you and inform you their statstick is bigger than urs. But yea, as vars likes to point out thease champions have no neutral game so we should all give their playerbase of "decent human beeings" free base stats, better scaling, no cooldowns or resource management and maybe one of our legs and the firstborn child, because they deserve it! And when melee ABusers are clearly overtunned mostly by them selves ansd independantly of the items we will nerf zoe and zoe's items in a desperate atempt to ballance silas, at least in apperances, even tho silas can have a 55% wr with a first item ECLIPSE, but yea, artilery mages having a SINGULAR VIABLE ITEM is the fckin problem.
To be frank; the moment i heard the words " userfriendly assasin " spoken by a riot design team member in a non sarcastic tone i knew id quit the game, and looking back on it im glad. The community of people that enjoy gameplay equivalent to cyberbullying, winning by default and punching down is no suprise a very toxic experience and assholes like Vars that defend the fact the game has devolved into an autochess can go to hell no matter how calm or nice their speech pattern is. "screw you guys, im going home"
spellthief if the single strongest ability in the game IMO. Having access to unlimited summoner spells and punishing your enemies for using theirs. It also adds a layer of improvisation and decision making to your games that keeps them fresh and fun. I would stop playing Zoe all together if they removed it.
tell him! i guess people who have never played zoe can't understand the importance of her W
Her W is really strong. Ignite a laner early game and you win the trade / get a kill most of the time.
they could just like, redesign her into an artillery mage instead of a burst mage?
Lower her damage but also her cooldowns?
Idk Riot just needs to slow the fuck down on releasing new broken shit and focus even a fraction on just getting champs into a healthy spot :/
There's so much arrogance in Riot's dev leaders.
Zoe has %46 winrate ppl still want nerr for zoe 😤😤😤
@@korkukokusu8311 Cause she's awful to play against. She still does huge damage to people from 3 screens away
@@QuestionableObject no one plays zoe except already experienced players from years ago . good player is good in every champion , and zoe is underpowered right now 😭
@@korkukokusu8311 Doesn't change that the champion is just flat out designed to be uninteractive and one-sided, thus eminently hateable. Blame riot.
I loved this 3d emoji transition :D
Very good video. Well summerized imo
I'm so sad that so many champions just get completely shat on after a few seasons and they become practically unplayable
zoe is not unplayable, tho you are right some champ are unplayable
Zoe can't get buffs to be decent cuz crybaby adcs are mad they can't dodge skillshots, but it's completely ok for Yone and Yasuo to be overpowered for decades, as they are played by every middle school kid ever(meaning majority of the playerbase).
I remember back when Zoe was new-ish and during the winter map, I would play her support and terrorize botlanes with my friend, all it took was one sleepy + paddle star to annihilate someone. She was super fun but felt really unfair
Funnily enough, I still do terrorize botlines with Zoe supp on the regular. I barely take her mid, and usually my bot lane knows to wait for my q to land before smashing them down with me together. Landing q's without bubbles is key though.
It's always a nice day when Cars uploads, just me..ok
"a single misstep could kill you in literally a single shot"
best zoe description
Not sure if you've done it yet but a yuumi video on this series would be nice I bet considering she was most picked and banned support for so long but now has the worst winrate over every other champion and is almost never picked or banned these days especially compared to the past, the fact you see her at all is because of the giant abyss that was her pick / play rate compared to others even lux.