Tubeless on the road, for me, hasn’t been pointless. Last year in the fall and winter I had so many punctures that resulted in flats that I lost a ton of miles; my friends said that I was just cursed. I swapped to tubeless on all of my road bikes and boom - I haven’t had a single flat in 5,000 miles. Everyone’s experience will vary, of course.
@@RockyScorcese that’s why I said a single flat. It’s been 11000 miles on tubeless across three bikes now and I’ve had only one non-sealing puncture. I’ve had plenty of gashes and gotten sealant everywhere, but the tires held up. I’ve done a few patches inside of tires here and there to prevent issues. Overall, tubeless has been a big improvement.
@@Darsithis I was only playing! I got my first puncture last week since going tubeless in Jan. I only realised when I noticed sealant spray on my bars and forks. Tis truly a thing of beauty when it works!
I was using tube for 2 years w/o puncture. Meet my friend, we talked about bikes, about tires, about sealant. I told him i had no puncture in last 2 years. Next thing i know im changing a tube 50 km away from home in rain. Same evening. Never mentioning punctures again.
This is my 3rd year with tubeless tires. I've had one puncture in those 3 years and only found it at the start of my next ride when the tire wouldn't hold full air. They're well worth it for me.
I've had 2 in 5 years running tubeless. Both were irrepairable sidewall punctures. Goatheads, glass gravel, and small bolts and and nails scatter over the streets of the best neighborhoods of Southern CA. And the tubeless tire system is worth the extra money time lost in frustrating needless repairs.
I have electronic on my road bike and mechanical on my gravel bike. 95% of the time, I don't miss electronic at all when on my gravel bike. So, I'd lean towards saying it's over rated and not worth the cost. It comes into play when cables stretch but that only happens when they are new or newer. The other time is when I'm really tired or bonked. I will sometimes over or under shift with the mechanical. With electronic. That won't happen.
Honestly 2 of my 3 bikes have dura ace and I could care less but I’m also not the type of rider that can get the most out of it I suppose. Like…a pro or even amateur racer. But the difference is pretty negligible I’d say
Mechanical works just fine. Just replace the cables once a year and make sure you shift to the lowest gear after every ride so there is no tension on the cable when you store the bike. Do that and you’ll always have smooth flawless shifting with virtually no adjustment required. No faffing with batteries. No firmware updates. And with cables you develop a feel for how tight the chain is when you shift. If the chain is under load it is fractionally harder to shift so you know to ease up in mid pedal stroke to let the chain climb to the next gear. This places less strain on your drivetrain as a whole and make the whole system work better and last longer.
Each of these statements I was surprised by but then once you explained them it made a lot of sense and really makes you think about what you actually need vs what the bike industry wants you to think you need
Disc brakes are an absolute must where I live in the Mendips. The fast descents literally melt rim brake pads and the winter wet fade is pretty extreme. Thankfully my 160 Rotas are ideal!
Over many years i've built world long distance touring bikes up for such people, built bikes for distance record holders, tdf riders & cross riders, infact every aspect of cycling. Not once has anyone said their rim braking isn't sufficient. No disc brakes aren't a must for you, nor anyone. Try telling that to past TDF winning riders & they'll laugh at you. Good rim brakes, set up well & for the right needs are totally sufficient, just like they always have been.
@@mendipfox1650 Well mate, move out of the Mendips, no-one is forcing you to live there. Alternatively why would you throw yourself down a crazy descent in the rain on rim brakes? No-one would, so you are only stating what is common sense. We get it, disc brakes are great on steep descents in the rain, any other situation rim brakes are fine.
Disc brakes all the way - hydro or mech. Rode rims brakes for along time and nothing wrong with them, but then I used to drive lots of vehicles with no power steering with no problems, but I will stick to powered steering thanks. Run tubeless and tubed, most of the time I run tubes with sealant and have only ever had to put air in the tyre when punctures strike and carried on riding - I'll take the weight penalty for peace of mind any day. Great video guys.
... for a* long* time. And most mechanical discs (Shimano Claris/Sora and their TMP/Tektro equivalents) perform much worse than any mediocre rim brake. They take quite some time for bedding-in and they all require much higher force for to-zero-deceleration than a nice caliper/cantilever brake on a decent alloy rim, even in not-too-wet weather. Problem is that no bike manufacturer will build different types of frames for different types of brakes anymore, so you have to pay a lot more for decent hydraulic discs that actually work as promised.
The elephant in the room with rim brakes….limited tyre clearances (28mm approx). If you’re happy with that limitation there’s no reason to switch,otherwise discs all the way. Totally agree re integrated cockpits…an unwanted fad and a bike fitting nightmare.
If you're running more than 27mm/28mm tires, you're losing more on aerodynamics than gaining on rolling resistance. Past 32mm the rolling resistance goes up again anyway
Some caliper rim brakes only clear up to 25-26mm wide rims, others clear up to about 28. Check your manufacturer's documentation. You can run bigger tires but may need to deflate or remove a brake pad to install, which is annoying.
I completely agree with this list. Day to day life is so much easier with a rim brake, non-integrated (traditional) handle bar, bike with clinche tyres.
@@JohnDough-yr2zt I can attest to what he said as I work on bikes on a daily basis. My bikes just need to work hassle-free and not be so slow, nothing more.
In the context of recreational bicycling, the word “need” should never be used. It’s already an elitist hobby (speaking as an Ultegra user), so arguing no one needs Dura Ace is badly missing the point. No one needs Ultegra either; 105 is more than enough - repeat until you’re riding a rusty single speed and the smug satisfaction that goes with it.
Unless you're actually racing/competing, most "improvements" over the past decade are pointless. I will keep my alloy frame with a mechanical groupset, rim brakes, light alloy clinchers and external cables, thank you. Modern bicycles are now as expensive as motorcycles and sure require a similar mechanic to service them.
@@DavidTodor I’m happy the talking sphincters identity themselves right off so i know to dismiss anything they say out of hand immediately. Btw I have some bike parts for sale cheap, if you’re interested.
Much of it depends on your specific circumstances. I have tubes in my MTB because it lives in our country home so I only get to use it sporadically. Sealant dries up, the system pre-requires regular rotation of the wheels.
You’re right: 6th one was controversial and I was with you all the way until then. I don’t mainly ride in the dry (I commute all year, 24/7) so I deliberately chose disc brakes on my single-speed commuting bike. I have also found I had to have my rim brake road bike wheel re-rimmed after a relatively short period of time, which was significantly more expensive than just replacing a rotor, if I ever needed to! So I can genuinely say I’ve given both a go and there’s no doubt in my mind for reasons to my usage, their performance in the wet and the overall impact on the bike’s wear and tear - disc brakes all the way, I’m afraid!.
Tubeless on the road are wonderful, fewer flats if any at all. Disc brakes are a pain in the ass when not installed or adjusted properly, but on steep or wet descents are a game changer.
Tubeless changed my life ! I have had my tubeless setup for almost a year, about 4000k on it, and no single puncture, at least nothing I noticed. Never going back !
I agree! Tubeless is sick as long as you pack a spare tube in case of a blowout. Also, my first ride after spending big bucks on a road tubeless tyre, I had a piece of glass absolutely destroy the sidewall. Was quite upsetting, but otherwise great!
I have both rim and disc brake bikes. Trending back to rim; Just bought a New 2021 GIANT TCR Advanced Pro 1. I Comes with Rim brakes, carbon wheels and dual sided power meter. 1/3rd the price of the equivalent equipped disc bike. Rim brakes; Easy to manage, easy to travel with and easy to clean your bike. They never failed to stop me in my tracks!
If you are an older rider like me and could not care less about tubeless upgrades I have a little suggestion. For years I have used generous amounts of Teflon powder between the tire and the tube/wheel on my road bike. Teflon eliminates stiction between the tire and tube because the static and dynamic coefficient of Teflon are the same and very low (much less than talcum powder). This allows the tube and tire to move independently over bumps thus reducing watts lost through heat. Interestingly after 500 miles on the same tube the Teflon powder distributes itself perfectly evenly over the entire surface of the tube. This suggests that the tube is in constant motion and never gets stuck anywhere (which improves tube life and reduces tube/tire coupling). I also use Teflon powder on my 29" x 2.5" slick/gravel wheel which I have fitted with foams inserts and liners to eliminate thorn and wire punctures. The Teflon powder allows all these insert additions to move freely. Keeping the pressure at about 50-55 psi keeps insert rolling drag to a minimum also.
I have both rim brakes and disc brakes, and I tend to like the rim brakes a lot better. 1) they're lighter. 2) they are a lot more responsive because you're not running the torque through the entire wheel assembly. 3) because rim brakes are situated on the perimeter of the wheel, the forces induced are not impinged in such a way as stressing the spokes like disc brakes do. Remember when doing a hard stop puts a lot more pressure on the spokes with discs than it does when you are pedaling hard.
I got avid 2.0’s on one of my old hard tails and people are shocked at how well they work. Me included. Since I’m talking a mtb scenario where break modulation is way more important, I can’t see why rim brakes aren’t the standard on roadies considering the amount of effort some people put into saving a few grams.
Over many years i've built world long distance touring bikes up for such people, built bikes for distance record holders, tdf riders & cross riders, infact every aspect of cycling. Not once has anyone said their rim braking isn't sufficient. Disc brakes aren't a must for anyone. If the market hadn't dictated the change from rim to disc, for their own pockets, we'd all still be riding rim brake road bikes & not even thinking about different brakes. Try telling past TDF winning riders disc brakes are a must & they'll laugh at you. I talk with these riders. Good rim brakes, set up well & for the right needs are totally sufficient, just like they always have been. Going along with market trends & what manufacturers is in force, its upto the individual if they get swept along or not. At pro level, it's different, many would ditch discs to go back to rim, but they don't have the choice us mere mortals have.
I run my roadbike tubeless and I absolutely love it, I do use Strada Bianca tyres from Vittorio for some xtra puncture safety though. Regarding disc brakes when in downhil, during vacation, they do offer peace of mind for me so that is pretty priceless to me and where I normaly ride condition can get pretty wet to say the least.
Strada Bianca from Vittorio? what ? the only Strada Bianca tires that do exist on the market are from Challenge are absolutely atrocious regarding their build quality at least from my experience.
@@boogiexx Indeed you are right! The brand colour confused me... Well the front tyre did his job on all surfaces (on gravel too) flawless and has 2500K on them now. The rear tyre was replaced after 2200km because the tread tyre came lose. The replacement has 300k on them now and so far so good. I must say that puncuture protection is marvelous on this tyre!
agree on the discs issue is most people on disc brakes seem to only assume you can only use a carbon wheel with rim brakes 🤦♂️🤦♂️ If you're in the mountains just use alloy climbing wheels like shamals etc and there is no issues. If it rains disc or rim you'd be going easier reguardless if you value your life 😂
Upgrading to a 3K plus bike when you’re only commuting a couple of miles to work. Cable operated disk brakes.. No better than a decent set of rim brakes + the pads last longer. Deep set wheels.. sold mine and gone back to normal rims.. yes they were faster at times, but got fed up of being blown all over the road in the slightest of breezes.
Also swapped back to narrow wheels, deep wheels scared the crap out of me on a couple of occasions with crosswinds from gaps in hedges etc, just lost all confidence in them. Bit more effort to maintain the same speeds on the flat, but enjoy going downhill a lot more.
Before doing any bike upgrades at all, upgrade yourself. Dropping unneeded body weight and getting fitter will make far more difference than any equipment change you can make.
my commuter is disk because im often in the wet. i plan to build a budget rim brake roadie to see just how much slower my 47c gravel mullet build (the commuter) really is.
I wish I had the money to buy these useless stuff. But my whole bike setup and pedals corsted me 340€ for a 10.2 kg second hand bike so I also believe I cannot say I'm really disappointed.
I ride a SpeedMax carbon rim brakes, but it seems that in wet conditions, the braking distance is insane at 30 - 40m or so at 35km/hr. Disc is definitely safer since you don’t know when it’ll rain
Wasn't going to put oversize derailleur pulleys on my SL-8 build, but found a new one for $300 usd, with the 3 angles of adjustment (stock only has one) my AXS shifter feels like an automatic, so smooth.
Been riding with tubes, no reason to go to tubeless. I've been fine. But disc brakes is a must. If you're buying a new bike get a disc brakes, won't upgrade to get one though.
I live in a very flat area and disc brakes are sort of useless for my needs, but unfortunately most bikes outside of custom or some random build are disc only or frame only and good luck getting the parts for a build around rim brakes as well. I have both a disc and rim brake and I prefer my rim brake bike.
FIrst thing I'm doing when my first road bike arrives this week I'm going tubeless. Bike comes with tubeless tyres and I already have stans fluid. When choosing a bike I didn't even considered rim brakes. It was never going to happen. Hydro was the first requirement for my choice.
All the "innovations" you have said here we don't need is BANG ON! All of "those innovations" were first designed to sell... whether they work or not is in the sucker... err the "rider's" mind that bought them. I conclude by saying: what do I know? A rider of a 33 year old custom built for me steel bike.
It depends on what you combine it with at the back, but largely true. I barely ever use the top two gears on my 50/34, 11/34 combo, and only when pedaling downhill...
@@AG-el6vt I think I am below average and I average 80 rpm with 53-39 11-28 combo and I can do 6 km climbs with it even though I wish for an easier gear going up.
Disc brakes are an absolute must to consider. I've had rim brakes on my crappy bike and then moved to a disc brake setup on my first proper bike. Rim Brakes have so many more areas of failure than you think which makes disc brakes well worth it. Obviously it isn't going to be the end of the world if you decide to never have rim brakes but it is definitely something that you'd wished you'd considered rather than just saying oh I don't need it.
Also, disc wheels will last much longer since the rim is not being worn so you can justify getting a pricier pair. Though this is a greater factor if you ride in the wet in which case you'll probably want discs anyway.
Refreshing to hear these opinions on tubeless and disc brakes. Certain other RUclips cycling channels seem to spend a lot of time (sponsored by manufacturers, funnily enough) telling us why we should invest in them. I have both rim brakes and disc brakes. Both have their advantages, but, tbh, I prefer the simplicity and cost of rim brakes. Put cartridges and decent pads on them (rather than the stock blocks they come with) and they generally perform well, especially if you just have aluminium rims.
Just watched the video "The road bike upgrades you need! | Six of the best bike upgrades" where Liam was prooving that disk brakes is something absolutely must to have :)
As long as my rim brakes can block both wheels i dont feel the need to change. I dont ride 20km downhill at high speed. Only in really nasty weather i have to drive a little more carefully is it takes 2 rotations until the brake with full power. but it was never an issue.
The whole disc brake argument is going to become a moot point soon, manufacturers are moving away from rim brakes. So wether you like discs or not you might want to think about getting used to them...
Nope, there are enough people around the world who will not convert to discs on the road. With all the faff and extra cost of discs and the pandemic’s new customer bicycle business boost fading away, manufacturers will realize their sales are dropping down, if big manufacturers insist on discs only then Chinese brands and boutique manufacturers will take up that share. I think that the big manufacturers are too greedy to let that share go away forever.
Right. Especially in mid/high/racing bike models. I don’t see them coming in other than disc brakes. Manufacturers don’t even add “disc” to the model names anymore. You can just assume they have disc brakes on the bikes.
I almost bought a carbon bike in late 2020 (2021 Giant TCR Advanced), but my lack of mental readiness for carbon bike ownership stopped me from pulling the trigger. I'm actually fine with not owning a carbon bike, especially now that I have a race-worthy aluminium one.
Disc brakes have been a tremendous windfall for (advanced) riders with carbon aero wheels. Rim brake / carbon rim combos brake poorly, especially in wet weather. Carbon fiber rims last much longer on bikes with disc brakes. I'm a fan of tubeless tires. The ride is absolutely plush. Been riding on them for 6 years. My bike shop custom built my wheels and recommended Hutchinson Atom. Went 4+ years without a flat, about 20,000 miles. Nothing wrong with rim brakes, rode them for 25+ years, and yes, you can get a great deal on them now .
👏 agree with all the points and the honesty is refreshing as opposed to a certain big RUclips cycling channel which seems reluctant to even mention the negatives of whatever the cycling industry is currently trying to push .. !
Long term hydraulic discs are cheaper to maintain. Once they're set up properly you never need to touch them except to replace the pads and very occasionally the rotors. Compare that to the cost of buying new rims and rebuilding a pair of wheels.
I keep seeing people claiming they are more expensive to maintain, but I really don't understand the claim. In my experience, they need much less maintenance. My current bike (Cube attain GTC Race), bought last August, has disc brakes. I have done just under 4,000 miles in that year, and the only maintenance required has been pad replacement (one set of front, two rear). I know they can sometimes need bleeding, but mine never have, nor did they on my previous bike (a hybrid, but another with hydraulic discs). I did also need a new rear rotor when it got bent in a bad crash - that crash being why I've only done 4000 miles, it would have been closer to 5000 without the 9 weeks off the bike.
@@alexheney8717 hi. It is not a claim. It is a comparison to my previous rim breaks. Those needed a couple of cables and lasted 6 years ( until I sold the bike). The disc breaks would require, cleaning and calibration and lots of attention all of the time.
@@mohamadjamil3164 Disk brakes simply don't require that. I've never needed to calibrate them - I'm not even sure you *can* - they are totally self adjusting. I've never cleaned mine apart from a quick spray from they hose when cleaning the rest of the bike. And they have just never required any attention whatsoever apart from replacing pads. That is in 4000 miles on my current road bikes, and a similar distance on my previous hybrid. Shimano 105 on the road bike, Tektro Auriga on the Hybrid.
Tubeless is pointless on a road bike. It may fix itself many times, but if it fails, you're screwed. I understand that on an MTB they work to prevent the most common of flats (snakebite), so great. But I have ridden on modern tubed clincher tyres for 20-30 thousands of kilometres with only ONE flat. Disc brakes are rather pointless if you mostly ride when it's dry. I wouldn't mind the extra weight, but I DO mind that they are delicate and hard to repair. Almost all kinds of defects are ride-stoppers. A rim brake you can somehow put back together using some mud, spit and sticks, but for hydraulic disc brakes you need (specialist) tools and materials. You aren't bleeding your brake with the pocket tool. Bend the disc while transporting the bike in the car: ride over before it started. Forget to put in a spacer block and pop out the pistons: ride over. I also trust rim brakes (with their comparatively bigger mass and surface) on descents requiring a lot of braking more than discs. Forget cable-operated ones. Rim brakes on my road bike significantly outperformed the discs on my commuter (until I got fed up and replaced the front brake with a hydraulic one, now they're about equally effective). There are two good reasons to switch to disks: for riding in crappy weather, and if you want to use carbon rims. Carbon rims with rim brakes are an absolute no-go.
I would add to that electronic shifters. Their just not worth the exorbitant price. I also don’t think there’s anything controversial to adding disc brakes to this list. Unless like you’re a dedicated down hiller or live in an exceptionally rainy region. Yes disc brakes do have superior braking power and modulation but that’s mostly over kill as I’ve never had any issues with fast stops or even emergency braking with rim brakes. The extra cost and maintenance hassle just isn’t worth the gains. Another I would add that is over rated and grossly over priced are…and I’m sure the feathers will fly here, is carbon fiber frames. The only real advantage carbon has is their lighter weight and even at the highest level a 2# difference is virtually meaningless until you hit grades over 5%. You can by a high end Steel bike that is more customizable, more durable, and has as good or better ride quality than a top end carbon bike costing 2-3 times as much. So if you’re not chasing seconds carbon frames are very over rated considering their cost. For the vast majority of road cyclist the cost benefit simply isn’t there. Worst bike purchase I ever made was a Trek Madone. I trashed that frame in three seasons of hard riding… and it’s ride quality wasn’t equal to my late 80’s Schwinn Paramount or my current Reynolds 853 custom bike 17#.
Electronic shifters, they're* not worth the price / the only advantage that carbon has is its* lighter weight. Totally agreed on the first topic, especially given the hidden cost of electronics which is having to recycle the electronic waste (plastic and harmful metals) when batteries are worn out. Totally disagree on the second, because carbon does add significant comfort, most obviously in forks.
I agree with everything, the 2nd hand market is killing it with rim braked bikes some real killer deals. If you do ride during bad weather then yeah disk makes sense but if you just getting a summer bike rim will be more than ok.
100% i went back to rim brakes and yep got mine 2nd hand. Great bargain. I never ride in the wet unless it starts mid ride, so yeah wet braking is no issue for me.
Personally I think what the average cyclist does not need is deep section wheels, ie over 50mm, that possibly give you an Aero advantage at over 40 kph, be are far more dangerous in any sort of cross wind.
100% disagree . I have 72/78mm rims and they are so quick its a joke. Even on just cruising rides it is ridiculous how much faster they are. Obviously for racing it's a no brainer and is a massive advantage
I've been riding since the early 80s and my brakes have always been sh*t, and it's worked for me. What's the point in getting brakes that actually work? Oh, and the REAL purpose of aftermarket pulley wheels is to color match them to your frame, just like tubeless gives you the ability co color match valves to your frame. What's not to like? Both will give a far more bling bike!
for everyday uses, rim brake with alloy wheelset for me. easy to maintain and cheap. but it's good to have one superbike, at least to make you happy...
No Tubeless...have you guys lost your mind!!!! I have finished so many rides only to find out I had countless leaks that the sealant has done the intended job and 1 ride w/ the airliner I got home w/ 40km to go (wire bristle firmly embedded in foam liner). Never a problem on my road bike or gravel bike.
Tubeless works, as do disc brakes. Still, you do not NEED them, especially if the amount of money you have to spend and the effort it takes to rebuild your bike are greater than the advantage you might get from them. In my case, on average I suffer a flat every 3000 km or so, and it takes me no more than 10 minutes to change a tube, so the unappealing fiddling with sealant and stuff would not cut it for me.
Well as you might expect me to say, riding in the bunch and off the kemmelberg in this years Gent Wevelgem u23 with rim brakes in a peleton where everybody else rides disc brakes in the pouring rain was quite the scary adventure. Disc brakes wouldve made my day alot easier then.
I've used tubeless on my road bike for years and I couldn't recommend it more highly. Punctures are crazily rare and are fixed in two minutes at the roadside with a plug. I would not cycle to work without it because a puncture causing me to be late is unacceptable for me. Just pick a rim/tyre combination known to work and you are sorted. Hugely disagree with it being on this list
@Ime, do you even realise that punctures have no fking thing in common with the fact that you runn tubless or not ? ..beside, it takes the same amount to put a new tube in your tire than it takes ti "fix it in 2 minutes at the roadside with a plug" ..
@@georgestate9384 That is just factually incorrect. Firstly you can't get pinch flat punctures with tubeless. Secondly, the sealant will seal the vast majority of punctures. Thirdly, inserting a tubeless plug just involves inserting the plug with the right tool. To change an inner tube you have to change gear, take the back wheel out, take the tyre and tube out, fit the new tube in, fit the tyre back on, put the wheel back on. Even with a formula one style tyre change that will take much longer. Open your mind up to change!
Ime - George 1-0 I have to agree with Ime with reference to puncture sorted out straight away by the sealant and no inner tubes to be pinched. But I got lots of friends still running with clincher tires. Enjoy your rides...both of you
If mainly concerned with punctures, I'd rather have a proper puncture-resistant clincher tyre. I've tried running tubeless, running clincher with sealant, and puncture resistant clincher, and for me the best combination of price, availability, and hassle is puncture resistance. But then again I mainly commute on the bike. Also, I fail to see how pinch flats can be a thing on the road, unless riding over steps and potholes. A glass shard will screw up your tyre, tubeless or not.
I agree with your 'don't need' upgrades, with the exception of tubeless setups for road bikes. I've covered 10,000km on my Defy road bike, which has a tubeless setup, and I've had at least 8 punctures that were sealed with the sealant, which allowed me to complete the ride. Usually, I don't even know I've had a puncture until I look, at a coffee break, or when I get home. They are a bloody mess if the tire has to be taken off the rim, though.
You mix up "nice to have" with "need". And eight punctures over 10,000 km means you have shitty tires. I went through three whole sets of regular clichers (about 11,000 km) without a single flat.
You did not mention "up grading" from 10 to 11 or 12 or 11 to 12 speed. A very expensive change for no gain, in fact possibly a downgrade. less cogs is a bit less weight, less expensive chains, less precision needed on the adjustments. The annoying thing is unavailability of top end cassettes for 10 speed
I agree with everything, even disc brakes. The deals nowadays with rim brake bikes are insane, total dream machines. That's how I procured mine. Yes disc brakes stop you faster...in the wet, but let's be honest if the stopping distance in the wet that disc brakes provide over rim brakes, is the difference between crashing or not, the problem is not brake tech, stop riding like an animal, us weekend warriors aren't going to win any races.
Tubeless and hydro disk breaks Yes. Got 5 flats on a200mi ride and switched to tubeless. Way fewer flats now. Love the control with disk breaks and I have more rim options.
I love tubeless tires, I won’t go back to tubes. I love disk breaks, I would never want to go back to rim brakes. I’m rather surprised you put those two on your list.
Have an 'old fashion' Dura Ace Serie 9000 from 2013 on my 6.7 kg road bike. Works flawlessly, super light, super funnctional, no headache, easy to maintain and repair. All do it yourself. Pure fun
I love disc brakes. However, if you're not running wide tires, and you don't cycle in very wet conditions, then they don't offer enough of a benefit. Although an argument could be made if using carbon wheels.
@@EstelonAgarwaen I live in Santa Rosa, Ca, where my friend Levi trained for the TdF. My rides avg about 60 mi, 5k ft and sometimes up to 100/10k. Disc brakes are awesome.
@@JohnDough-yr2zt i have them on my commuter bike. Work great. Saved my ass on a descent in Switzerland. Here in northerm germany theres no reason for disc brakes. Its pretty flat.
when you and your bike get to 110 kg, disk brakes are waaaay better especially on descents. On flat, I ride on rim brakes since you need to slow down only few times in the whole ride. On the other hand, you can get a great deal on a bike that's under 8 kg with good old rim brake
I can only see two real improvements: - Electronic shifting: Yes it's more expensive for now, but there's no reason it should be - on the contrary. It's a bit like when quartz watches first came out the seventies. Pretty soon we'll be seeing great electronic groups for discount prices. - Disc brakes: When you put in lots of kilometers in winter weather commuting on poor roads, rim brakes just ea through rims. Hydraulic discs need little maintenance and separating braking from the other function of the rims just makes sense. All the rest - tubeless, endless bottom bracket, headset and freehub "standards" and especially integrated cables, integrated cockpits and proprietary seatposts are nothing but a massive pain in the backside for 95% of cyclists.
Most ceramic bearings will fail. Many have no seal, like the ones used by Campagnolo in their cranksets, and most have ceramic ball bearings on steel runners. The discrepancy in mismatched materials' hardness index will lead one or the other wearing out prematurely. If you're a pro who gets new bikes on the regular and is never around to watch these things wear out they're great. If you have money for one new road bike, it's to your benefit all your components are durable. NTN and NSK are Japanese, steel, and impeccably manufactured.
Tubes in both my gravel bike and road bike. 2000 miles and 4 punctures, 2 were slow over night thorns, not replaced on the road, and 2 where from one pothole crash. During 4 or 5 years amateur racing not even sure how many races, had maybe 2 punctures during TT's, and none during a year of XC MTB racing. Rim brakes on road bike are good but with some major steep technical descents around me i like the disk brakes on my gravel bike. But can still ride them with the road bike rim brakes. Drew.
Cracking video, and agreed pretty much on what you discussed! Tubeless is great until you come into contact with a Gravel king SS, this can change your mind in a pretty short time indeed! On my road bike I simply run tubes with replaceable valve cores, and pump a little Stan's into them. And yes, my road bike is still on rim brakes! ✌️
Oh god, this must be just comment-bait (but i'll bite anyway), how can you add two of the best road bike improvements since decades in this list. disc brakes allow for better braking, certainly when it is wet, let me know again how well the descend went on that alp in the wet (this was exactly the moment i knew i wanted disc brakes) and also when commuting and it rains and a car suddenly pulls in front of you, you basically piss your pants hoping to stop in time. and they also allow for wider tires, good luck with wide tires on rim brake bikes. re tubeless, well, all i can say, who wants to swap inner tires on a dark, wet and cold winter ride/commute? not me, i once drove home with a nail through and through the tire, let allone all the times you got a puncture without even knowing about it. god, i never want to go back to those pre-tubeless times. all the early issues are mainly fixed at this point, i can now put on tubeless tires without tools and pop them on the rim with a floorpump.
Tubeless is awesome- way less punctures, less rolling resistance and lower pressures = more comfortable- just much better - but you do need to know what to do to make it work well- but it isn’t rocket science
depends where you live and ride; I haven't had a puncture for the last 2 years (while racing and riding approx. 10K a year), so there isn't a puncture-advantage going tubeless. Maybe there are other advantages, but I saw a guy with a tubeless tyre rolling off his (expensive) carbon rim, and besides damaging the rim, he had latex all over his bike and had to call someone to pick him up.
Nah, I got a nail in my tire and the sealant exploded everywhere and good thing I had a spare tube. Some lightweight Tubolitos tubes roll faster and are a lighter setup.
@@Motorsportsgeek that is a rare thing. The vast majority of punctures will just be sealed up. Also, tubless will prevent snake bites if you hit a pothole.
Not to mention biggest benefit. Safety. It will less likely to blowout if there's a puncture. It's more likely to deflate. That's why the automotive industry mostly uses tubeless.
@@GeraldGuevara a tubless tire will blow out worse on a road bike and you'll be riding on your nice carbon rim with sealant all over you. There are many reasons why pros in tour the France use clincher tires or tubbed, safety is the main reason but their are others.
Disc brakes need no but if you changing your bike then disc are a must after having rim brakes then going to disc is like a major upgrade especially if you want carbon wheels in dry or wet! I did Helvellyn Tri in lake District a few times with rim carbon wheels and basically racing down Kirkstone pass was a nightmare as i knew even in dry that the carbon dodging other riders/cars/ stone walls ! But with disc brake+carbon wheels I can stop on descent without dead hands, more grey hair or frame wobble! Plus being 85kg+ it's no good saying i don't have that issue because you are 65kg wet 😁
It's OK to say gains are "non-existent" rather than "minimal" for stuff that is clearly for bling .. which is what all you reviewed consisted of. It's also OK to say "negative gain" as well which was the case for a set of rat trap pedals from Wellgo, least as delivered. The pedal shafts were notchy feeling and inconsistent between the 2 pedals. It was an assembly issue and bad engineering. There is no D washer to keep the bearing nut from turning when the locking nut is tightened. Had to create a special socket within a socket to keep bearing nut still while the locking nut was tightened. Once adjusted properly they were OK. Had to re-engineer the plastic rat trap part as well as it has a very bad attachment system. One trap even pulled over the pan heads of the attachment screws.
Tubeless on road bikes have and tried but if on 28mm or below the sealant isn't good enough under 65psi plus and yes if you as are over 86kg then the pressure is higher! So 50psi or ideally sub 40 psi they are worth it so 40mm+ tires😁I still ride Lyrica tubes on 28mm - 32mm with no puncture issues in last 2years+ 😁
Great to see a channel not only trying to be an advertisement platform for bike brands. 👍👏
Thank you! That “other” British channel is just a series of infomercials, though the girl presenter is cute.
I personally think saddles are pointless. I just use a seatpost and sit on that. Also a good thing for saving weight.
Lol wut?
Big brain move
Rofl, i am crying…kinda best comment compared to what this video is about…love your sarcasm 😂
Plus you can use your anal muscles to hold on, giving you a 3rd point of contact.
Save money too!
Tubeless on the road, for me, hasn’t been pointless. Last year in the fall and winter I had so many punctures that resulted in flats that I lost a ton of miles; my friends said that I was just cursed. I swapped to tubeless on all of my road bikes and boom - I haven’t had a single flat in 5,000 miles.
Everyone’s experience will vary, of course.
Actually you probably had several punctures but the sealant did its job and you never ever knew...
@@RockyScorcese that’s why I said a single flat.
It’s been 11000 miles on tubeless across three bikes now and I’ve had only one non-sealing puncture. I’ve had plenty of gashes and gotten sealant everywhere, but the tires held up. I’ve done a few patches inside of tires here and there to prevent issues. Overall, tubeless has been a big improvement.
@@Darsithis I was only playing! I got my first puncture last week since going tubeless in Jan. I only realised when I noticed sealant spray on my bars and forks. Tis truly a thing of beauty when it works!
I was using tube for 2 years w/o puncture. Meet my friend, we talked about bikes, about tires, about sealant. I told him i had no puncture in last 2 years. Next thing i know im changing a tube 50 km away from home in rain. Same evening. Never mentioning punctures again.
Getting disc brakes is not an upgrade, since you have to buy a whole new frame.
Correct, it's just a different brake.
Neither an upgrade or downgrade.
I'll just zip tie the caliper on the frame.
😂
This is my 3rd year with tubeless tires. I've had one puncture in those 3 years and only found it at the start of my next ride when the tire wouldn't hold full air. They're well worth it for me.
I've had 2 in 5 years running tubeless. Both were irrepairable sidewall punctures. Goatheads, glass gravel, and small bolts and and nails scatter over the streets of the best neighborhoods of Southern CA. And the tubeless tire system is worth the extra money time lost in frustrating needless repairs.
I'm surprised electronic shifting didn't make the list. 🤔
because it works if tuned well and probably make you a better rider
I have electronic on my road bike and mechanical on my gravel bike. 95% of the time, I don't miss electronic at all when on my gravel bike. So, I'd lean towards saying it's over rated and not worth the cost. It comes into play when cables stretch but that only happens when they are new or newer. The other time is when I'm really tired or bonked. I will sometimes over or under shift with the mechanical. With electronic. That won't happen.
Honestly 2 of my 3 bikes have dura ace and I could care less but I’m also not the type of rider that can get the most out of it I suppose. Like…a pro or even amateur racer. But the difference is pretty negligible I’d say
Mechanical works just fine. Just replace the cables once a year and make sure you shift to the lowest gear after every ride so there is no tension on the cable when you store the bike. Do that and you’ll always have smooth flawless shifting with virtually no adjustment required.
No faffing with batteries. No firmware updates.
And with cables you develop a feel for how tight the chain is when you shift. If the chain is under load it is fractionally harder to shift so you know to ease up in mid pedal stroke to let the chain climb to the next gear. This places less strain on your drivetrain as a whole and make the whole system work better and last longer.
Absolutely right. I have never had any problem with mechanical. If you can adjust your own, stretch is not even a thing.
Each of these statements I was surprised by but then once you explained them it made a lot of sense and really makes you think about what you actually need vs what the bike industry wants you to think you need
Think about this: you don’t “actually need” a bike at all. You could walk.
Disc brakes are an absolute must where I live in the Mendips. The fast descents literally melt rim brake pads and the winter wet fade is pretty extreme. Thankfully my 160 Rotas are ideal!
Gross !
Over many years i've built world long distance touring bikes up for such people, built bikes for distance record holders, tdf riders & cross riders, infact every aspect of cycling.
Not once has anyone said their rim braking isn't sufficient.
No disc brakes aren't a must for you, nor anyone.
Try telling that to past TDF winning riders & they'll laugh at you.
Good rim brakes, set up well & for the right needs are totally sufficient, just like they always have been.
not so much with ALLOY RIMS ;)
I’d love to see you boys cycle down Draycott Steep- Somerset on a wet November morning and not think rim brakes are a complete bag of shite. 😂
@@mendipfox1650 Well mate, move out of the Mendips, no-one is forcing you to live there. Alternatively why would you throw yourself down a crazy descent in the rain on rim brakes? No-one would, so you are only stating what is common sense. We get it, disc brakes are great on steep descents in the rain, any other situation rim brakes are fine.
Disc brakes all the way - hydro or mech. Rode rims brakes for along time and nothing wrong with them, but then I used to drive lots of vehicles with no power steering with no problems, but I will stick to powered steering thanks. Run tubeless and tubed, most of the time I run tubes with sealant and have only ever had to put air in the tyre when punctures strike and carried on riding - I'll take the weight penalty for peace of mind any day. Great video guys.
A good comparison with power steering. Both save your strength and may be beneficial for your health if you ride or drive a lot.
when participating in droprides or a race, a tubless system would bring u to the finish line safely
... for a* long* time. And most mechanical discs (Shimano Claris/Sora and their TMP/Tektro equivalents) perform much worse than any mediocre rim brake. They take quite some time for bedding-in and they all require much higher force for to-zero-deceleration than a nice caliper/cantilever brake on a decent alloy rim, even in not-too-wet weather. Problem is that no bike manufacturer will build different types of frames for different types of brakes anymore, so you have to pay a lot more for decent hydraulic discs that actually work as promised.
You guys just broke my world about integrated cockpits and boxing the bike for travel. You are absolutely right. omg the savings i'm gonna do!
You needed someone to explain that to you?
@@JohnDough-yr2zt especially from a keyboard warrior like you, yes. Good job with the clarification bruh. Well done.
@@AntoineThisdale I’m sorry! Just trying to help.
@@JohnDough-yr2zt Well, some people just won't get it unless explained. They don't think in the long run.
The elephant in the room with rim brakes….limited tyre clearances (28mm approx). If you’re happy with that limitation there’s no reason to switch,otherwise discs all the way.
Totally agree re integrated cockpits…an unwanted fad and a bike fitting nightmare.
I like the discs too. Quiet with nice consistent feel (no pulsing) and braking. I'm a convert after riding a Trek Domane 3 several times this year
If you're running more than 27mm/28mm tires, you're losing more on aerodynamics than gaining on rolling resistance. Past 32mm the rolling resistance goes up again anyway
Not if you go for deep drop brakes 😁 I can get 33mm under my rim brakes on my Roberts Audax, it's a bit heavy mind
Some caliper rim brakes only clear up to 25-26mm wide rims, others clear up to about 28. Check your manufacturer's documentation. You can run bigger tires but may need to deflate or remove a brake pad to install, which is annoying.
@@lolbubs11111 I can fit 28mm Panaracer Gravel Kings on my road bike with Campagnolo rim brakes, manufacturers instructions are for guidance only 😁
I completely agree with this list. Day to day life is so much easier with a rim brake, non-integrated (traditional) handle bar, bike with clinche tyres.
Are your assessments based in personal experience? Or from watching RUclips videos?
@@JohnDough-yr2zt well I have both bike setups, so that would make the former
@@CarlBaravelliyes
@@JohnDough-yr2zt I can attest to what he said as I work on bikes on a daily basis. My bikes just need to work hassle-free and not be so slow, nothing more.
In the context of recreational bicycling, the word “need” should never be used. It’s already an elitist hobby (speaking as an Ultegra user), so arguing no one needs Dura Ace is badly missing the point. No one needs Ultegra either; 105 is more than enough - repeat until you’re riding a rusty single speed and the smug satisfaction that goes with it.
Unless you're actually racing/competing, most "improvements" over the past decade are pointless. I will keep my alloy frame with a mechanical groupset, rim brakes, light alloy clinchers and external cables, thank you. Modern bicycles are now as expensive as motorcycles and sure require a similar mechanic to service them.
I’m happy the sheeple are upgrading because I can pick up their barely used parts for a fraction of the price.
As a former rider & since pro team mechanic, you're bang on correct.
I will add though, unless racing/competing at a high level is more exact.
Common sense! Stop buying marketing 👍👍
You still have a flip phone don't you?
@@DavidTodor I’m happy the talking sphincters identity themselves right off so i know to dismiss anything they say out of hand immediately. Btw I have some bike parts for sale cheap, if you’re interested.
another one to add is aero frame...since 80% of aero drag came from the rider
"saves 25 watts at 40 km/h"
Like how many people really needs that. Not even world tour pros when they are training.
True, but it’s getting to a point where they can make the bike any shape, so why not?
20% is more than a marginal gain
@@jeffreymyers52 you don’t gain 20%
@@JohnDough-yr2zt true but if 20% of drag comes from the bike even a few% of gains would be more than marginal
Much of it depends on your specific circumstances. I have tubes in my MTB because it lives in our country home so I only get to use it sporadically. Sealant dries up, the system pre-requires regular rotation of the wheels.
You’re right: 6th one was controversial and I was with you all the way until then. I don’t mainly ride in the dry (I commute all year, 24/7) so I deliberately chose disc brakes on my single-speed commuting bike. I have also found I had to have my rim brake road bike wheel re-rimmed after a relatively short period of time, which was significantly more expensive than just replacing a rotor, if I ever needed to!
So I can genuinely say I’ve given both a go and there’s no doubt in my mind for reasons to my usage, their performance in the wet and the overall impact on the bike’s wear and tear - disc brakes all the way, I’m afraid!.
Tubeless on the road are wonderful, fewer flats if any at all. Disc brakes are a pain in the ass when not installed or adjusted properly, but on steep or wet descents are a game changer.
Tubeless changed my life ! I have had my tubeless setup for almost a year, about 4000k on it, and no single puncture, at least nothing I noticed. Never going back !
I agree! Tubeless is sick as long as you pack a spare tube in case of a blowout. Also, my first ride after spending big bucks on a road tubeless tyre, I had a piece of glass absolutely destroy the sidewall. Was quite upsetting, but otherwise great!
I have both rim and disc brake bikes. Trending back to rim; Just bought a New 2021 GIANT TCR Advanced Pro 1. I Comes with Rim brakes, carbon wheels and dual sided power meter. 1/3rd the price of the equivalent equipped disc bike. Rim brakes; Easy to manage, easy to travel with and easy to clean your bike. They never failed to stop me in my tracks!
If you are an older rider like me and could not care less about tubeless upgrades I have a little suggestion. For years I have used generous amounts of Teflon powder between the tire and the tube/wheel on my road bike. Teflon eliminates stiction between the tire and tube because the static and dynamic coefficient of Teflon are the same and very low (much less than talcum powder). This allows the tube and tire to move independently over bumps thus reducing watts lost through heat. Interestingly after 500 miles on the same tube the Teflon powder distributes itself perfectly evenly over the entire surface of the tube. This suggests that the tube is in constant motion and never gets stuck anywhere (which improves tube life and reduces tube/tire coupling). I also use Teflon powder on my 29" x 2.5" slick/gravel wheel which I have fitted with foams inserts and liners to eliminate thorn and wire punctures. The Teflon powder allows all these insert additions to move freely. Keeping the pressure at about 50-55 psi keeps insert rolling drag to a minimum also.
I have both rim brakes and disc brakes, and I tend to like the rim brakes a lot better. 1) they're lighter. 2) they are a lot more responsive because you're not running the torque through the entire wheel assembly. 3) because rim brakes are situated on the perimeter of the wheel, the forces induced are not impinged in such a way as stressing the spokes like disc brakes do. Remember when doing a hard stop puts a lot more pressure on the spokes with discs than it does when you are pedaling hard.
I got avid 2.0’s on one of my old hard tails and people are shocked at how well they work. Me included. Since I’m talking a mtb scenario where break modulation is way more important, I can’t see why rim brakes aren’t the standard on roadies considering the amount of effort some people put into saving a few grams.
@@jammankutch9385 fair points mate. Disc brakes on road bikes are totally pointless.
If you're not going down the stelvio on a rainy day then you DONT NEED disc brakes! Agree about tubeless too, such a pain in the ass
If you are over 90kg, disc brakes are a great improvement on a road bike!
It’s not the Stelvio, but I can assure you, you are not qualified to tell me what I do or don’t need.
Over many years i've built world long distance touring bikes up for such people, built bikes for distance record holders, tdf riders & cross riders, infact every aspect of cycling.
Not once has anyone said their rim braking isn't sufficient.
Disc brakes aren't a must for anyone. If the market hadn't dictated the change from rim to disc, for their own pockets, we'd all still be riding rim brake road bikes & not even thinking about different brakes.
Try telling past TDF winning riders disc brakes are a must & they'll laugh at you. I talk with these riders.
Good rim brakes, set up well & for the right needs are totally sufficient, just like they always have been.
Going along with market trends & what manufacturers is in force, its upto the individual if they get swept along or not.
At pro level, it's different, many would ditch discs to go back to rim, but they don't have the choice us mere mortals have.
I run my roadbike tubeless and I absolutely love it, I do use Strada Bianca tyres from Vittorio for some xtra puncture safety though. Regarding disc brakes when in downhil, during vacation, they do offer peace of mind for me so that is pretty priceless to me and where I normaly ride condition can get pretty wet to say the least.
Strada Bianca from Vittorio? what ? the only Strada Bianca tires that do exist on the market are from Challenge are absolutely atrocious regarding their build quality at least from my experience.
@@boogiexx Indeed you are right! The brand colour confused me... Well the front tyre did his job on all surfaces (on gravel too) flawless and has 2500K on them now. The rear tyre was replaced after 2200km because the tread tyre came lose. The replacement has 300k on them now and so far so good. I must say that puncuture protection is marvelous on this tyre!
Actual usefull videos for the new riders put there
agree on the discs issue is most people on disc brakes seem to only assume you can only use a carbon wheel with rim brakes 🤦♂️🤦♂️
If you're in the mountains just use alloy climbing wheels like shamals etc and there is no issues.
If it rains disc or rim you'd be going easier reguardless if you value your life 😂
say goodbye to any adverts from Ceramicspeed! LOL
Upgrading to a 3K plus bike when you’re only commuting a couple of miles to work.
Cable operated disk brakes.. No better than a decent set of rim brakes + the pads last longer.
Deep set wheels.. sold mine and gone back to normal rims.. yes they were faster at times, but got fed up of being blown all over the road in the slightest of breezes.
Also swapped back to narrow wheels, deep wheels scared the crap out of me on a couple of occasions with crosswinds from gaps in hedges etc, just lost all confidence in them. Bit more effort to maintain the same speeds on the flat, but enjoy going downhill a lot more.
Also when the rider is 30 kg. overweight, big gut
Before doing any bike upgrades at all, upgrade yourself. Dropping unneeded body weight and getting fitter will make far more difference than any equipment change you can make.
I ride rim brakes(Ultegra) and perfectly fine. However, no question that in the wet discs are way better. No contest.
my commuter is disk because im often in the wet. i plan to build a budget rim brake roadie to see just how much slower my 47c gravel mullet build (the commuter) really is.
Haven’t yet had a true flat tire on tubeless gp5000s. I’ve gone through 3 or 4 sets of them and they have been flawless.
I have 9/10 of the unnecessary components based on this video😂 its ok. I’m happy with my bike
Never anything wrong with buying "unnecessary" bike bling...whatever gets and keeps you out there!
You do you.
I wish I had the money to buy these useless stuff. But my whole bike setup and pedals corsted me 340€ for a 10.2 kg second hand bike so I also believe I cannot say I'm really disappointed.
Thats basically the prica of Just my Pedals - and truth be told, I wouldn't be surprised if you'd be absolutely destroying me on every asced :-D
Def need Tubeless on roadbike - better feeling with the Ground / lower pressure, fewer times spent fixing the tire/tube solution
I ride a SpeedMax carbon rim brakes, but it seems that in wet conditions, the braking distance is insane at 30 - 40m or so at 35km/hr. Disc is definitely safer since you don’t know when it’ll rain
What carbon rim and brake pad combination?
Carbon Fiber bottle cages are too costly for the reduced weight benefit……..
I considered getting ceramic bearings but went with steel in the end for longevity
Not needed:
Tubeless
Disc brakes
Internal routed cables
Pressfit BB
Integrated cockpits
GPS
Disc brakes are awesome…no way I would consider rim brakes after riding disc
Wasn't going to put oversize derailleur pulleys on my SL-8 build, but found a new one for $300 usd, with the 3 angles of adjustment (stock only has one) my AXS shifter feels like an automatic, so smooth.
I switch to tubeless like 4 years ago on all my bikes (2 road, 1 gravel), since then.... 0 flats. 10K a year. Will not look back.
Been riding with tubes, no reason to go to tubeless. I've been fine.
But disc brakes is a must. If you're buying a new bike get a disc brakes, won't upgrade to get one though.
I live in a very flat area and disc brakes are sort of useless for my needs, but unfortunately most bikes outside of custom or some random build are disc only or frame only and good luck getting the parts for a build around rim brakes as well. I have both a disc and rim brake and I prefer my rim brake bike.
FIrst thing I'm doing when my first road bike arrives this week I'm going tubeless. Bike comes with tubeless tyres and I already have stans fluid. When choosing a bike I didn't even considered rim brakes. It was never going to happen. Hydro was the first requirement for my choice.
So when someone yanks on disc brakes on a road bike in the wet, do the tyres somehow gain extra grip to actually stop the bike too......?
No, but with rim brakes in the wet, you will very rarely be able to brake sufficiently for that to be an issue. With disc brakes you easily can.
If you run wider tyres that you can with disc brakes then yes you will have a bigger contact patch and more grip.
All the "innovations" you have said here we don't need is BANG ON!
All of "those innovations" were first designed to sell... whether they work or not is in the sucker... err the "rider's" mind that bought them.
I conclude by saying: what do I know? A rider of a 33 year old custom built for me steel bike.
Suprised at the tubeless, i love it.
You know what the average cyclist doesn’t need? Any chainrings bigger than a 50/34.
Why not?
It depends on what you combine it with at the back, but largely true. I barely ever use the top two gears on my 50/34, 11/34 combo, and only when pedaling downhill...
@@AG-el6vt I think I am below average and I average 80 rpm with 53-39 11-28 combo and I can do 6 km climbs with it even though I wish for an easier gear going up.
Disc brakes are an absolute must to consider.
I've had rim brakes on my crappy bike and then moved to a disc brake setup on my first proper bike. Rim Brakes have so many more areas of failure than you think which makes disc brakes well worth it.
Obviously it isn't going to be the end of the world if you decide to never have rim brakes but it is definitely something that you'd wished you'd considered rather than just saying oh I don't need it.
Also, disc wheels will last much longer since the rim is not being worn so you can justify getting a pricier pair. Though this is a greater factor if you ride in the wet in which case you'll probably want discs anyway.
@@chloroticaelysia1520 and the cost offset by the price of rotors & pads
@@jamesstirling1879 nobody is spending hundreds on those pal. You have to get pads regardless
@@chloroticaelysia1520 have you seen the prices of a RT900 Rotor & equivalent pad? R55C4 is £13 and that gets your front and rear!
Refreshing to hear these opinions on tubeless and disc brakes. Certain other RUclips cycling channels seem to spend a lot of time (sponsored by manufacturers, funnily enough) telling us why we should invest in them. I have both rim brakes and disc brakes. Both have their advantages, but, tbh, I prefer the simplicity and cost of rim brakes. Put cartridges and decent pads on them (rather than the stock blocks they come with) and they generally perform well, especially if you just have aluminium rims.
Just watched the video "The road bike upgrades you need! | Six of the best bike upgrades" where Liam was prooving that disk brakes is something absolutely must to have :)
As long as my rim brakes can block both wheels i dont feel the need to change. I dont ride 20km downhill at high speed. Only in really nasty weather i have to drive a little more carefully is it takes 2 rotations until the brake with full power. but it was never an issue.
If you can, spring for some HED Ardeenes Black wheels. Alloy with a machines texture on brack track....stops Almost like disc in the wet 💦
The whole disc brake argument is going to become a moot point soon, manufacturers are moving away from rim brakes. So wether you like discs or not you might want to think about getting used to them...
Nope, there are enough people around the world who will not convert to discs on the road. With all the faff and extra cost of discs and the pandemic’s new customer bicycle business boost fading away, manufacturers will realize their sales are dropping down, if big manufacturers insist on discs only then Chinese brands and boutique manufacturers will take up that share. I think that the big manufacturers are too greedy to let that share go away forever.
Right. Especially in mid/high/racing bike models. I don’t see them coming in other than disc brakes. Manufacturers don’t even add “disc” to the model names anymore. You can just assume they have disc brakes on the bikes.
And learn how to use them correctly
Disc brakes are here to stay… rim brakes will be as rare as the Dodo bird… 🤔…. oh that’s right… it’s extinct…
@@gokaygs I think you are wrong about this but I am happy to be proven wrong. Time will tell. Lets revisit in 5 years😊
one thing missed....carbon frames....are they really necessary? AL frames can be just as good and most of the time less costly
I almost bought a carbon bike in late 2020 (2021 Giant TCR Advanced), but my lack of mental readiness for carbon bike ownership stopped me from pulling the trigger. I'm actually fine with not owning a carbon bike, especially now that I have a race-worthy aluminium one.
I had to run downstairs to make sure you two weren't broadcasting from my poured concrete basement. 😉
Disc brakes have been a tremendous windfall for (advanced) riders with carbon aero wheels. Rim brake / carbon rim combos brake poorly, especially in wet weather. Carbon fiber rims last much longer on bikes with disc brakes.
I'm a fan of tubeless tires. The ride is absolutely plush. Been riding on them for 6 years. My bike shop custom built my wheels and recommended Hutchinson Atom. Went 4+ years without a flat, about 20,000 miles.
Nothing wrong with rim brakes, rode them for 25+ years, and yes, you can get a great deal on them now .
👏 agree with all the points and the honesty is refreshing as opposed to a certain big RUclips cycling channel which seems reluctant to even mention the negatives of whatever the cycling industry is currently trying to push .. !
I sought out my newest bike in rim brakes, and so will my next one.
Hmmm. I love the disc break feel especially when descending. They are needy and much more expensive to maintain and heavier
Long term hydraulic discs are cheaper to maintain. Once they're set up properly you never need to touch them except to replace the pads and very occasionally the rotors. Compare that to the cost of buying new rims and rebuilding a pair of wheels.
I keep seeing people claiming they are more expensive to maintain, but I really don't understand the claim. In my experience, they need much less maintenance. My current bike (Cube attain GTC Race), bought last August, has disc brakes. I have done just under 4,000 miles in that year, and the only maintenance required has been pad replacement (one set of front, two rear). I know they can sometimes need bleeding, but mine never have, nor did they on my previous bike (a hybrid, but another with hydraulic discs). I did also need a new rear rotor when it got bent in a bad crash - that crash being why I've only done 4000 miles, it would have been closer to 5000 without the 9 weeks off the bike.
@@alexheney8717 hi. It is not a claim. It is a comparison to my previous rim breaks. Those needed a couple of cables and lasted 6 years ( until I sold the bike). The disc breaks would require, cleaning and calibration and lots of attention all of the time.
@@mohamadjamil3164 Disk brakes simply don't require that.
I've never needed to calibrate them - I'm not even sure you *can* - they are totally self adjusting.
I've never cleaned mine apart from a quick spray from they hose when cleaning the rest of the bike.
And they have just never required any attention whatsoever apart from replacing pads.
That is in 4000 miles on my current road bikes, and a similar distance on my previous hybrid. Shimano 105 on the road bike, Tektro Auriga on the Hybrid.
@@alexheney8717 Hmmmm. I need to talk to my mechanic then:))) I guess he has been overcharging
Tubeless is pointless on a road bike. It may fix itself many times, but if it fails, you're screwed. I understand that on an MTB they work to prevent the most common of flats (snakebite), so great. But I have ridden on modern tubed clincher tyres for 20-30 thousands of kilometres with only ONE flat.
Disc brakes are rather pointless if you mostly ride when it's dry. I wouldn't mind the extra weight, but I DO mind that they are delicate and hard to repair. Almost all kinds of defects are ride-stoppers. A rim brake you can somehow put back together using some mud, spit and sticks, but for hydraulic disc brakes you need (specialist) tools and materials. You aren't bleeding your brake with the pocket tool. Bend the disc while transporting the bike in the car: ride over before it started. Forget to put in a spacer block and pop out the pistons: ride over. I also trust rim brakes (with their comparatively bigger mass and surface) on descents requiring a lot of braking more than discs. Forget cable-operated ones. Rim brakes on my road bike significantly outperformed the discs on my commuter (until I got fed up and replaced the front brake with a hydraulic one, now they're about equally effective).
There are two good reasons to switch to disks: for riding in crappy weather, and if you want to use carbon rims. Carbon rims with rim brakes are an absolute no-go.
I would add to that electronic shifters. Their just not worth the exorbitant price. I also don’t think there’s anything controversial to adding disc brakes to this list. Unless like you’re a dedicated down hiller or live in an exceptionally rainy region. Yes disc brakes do have superior braking power and modulation but that’s mostly over kill as I’ve never had any issues with fast stops or even emergency braking with rim brakes. The extra cost and maintenance hassle just isn’t worth the gains.
Another I would add that is over rated and grossly over priced are…and I’m sure the feathers will fly here, is carbon fiber frames.
The only real advantage carbon has is their lighter weight and even at the highest level a 2# difference is virtually meaningless until you hit grades over 5%. You can by a high end Steel bike that is more customizable, more durable, and has as good or better ride quality than a top end carbon bike costing 2-3 times as much. So if you’re not chasing seconds carbon frames are very over rated considering their cost. For the vast majority of road cyclist the cost benefit simply isn’t there. Worst bike purchase I ever made was a Trek Madone. I trashed that frame in three seasons of hard riding… and it’s ride quality wasn’t equal to my late 80’s Schwinn Paramount or my current Reynolds 853 custom bike 17#.
Electronic shifters, they're* not worth the price / the only advantage that carbon has is its* lighter weight. Totally agreed on the first topic, especially given the hidden cost of electronics which is having to recycle the electronic waste (plastic and harmful metals) when batteries are worn out. Totally disagree on the second, because carbon does add significant comfort, most obviously in forks.
You can combine two of these. Get an old school external cabled rim brake bike for trips abroad in good weather.
Electronic groupsets?
I agree with everything, the 2nd hand market is killing it with rim braked bikes some real killer deals. If you do ride during bad weather then yeah disk makes sense but if you just getting a summer bike rim will be more than ok.
100% i went back to rim brakes and yep got mine 2nd hand. Great bargain. I never ride in the wet unless it starts mid ride, so yeah wet braking is no issue for me.
Disc brakes open-up the possibility of using wider tires instead of being limited to 25 or 28mm tires.
No doubt! Just sold my 16 lb Madone for $750. Too stiff! Got a new Roubaix. Much more comfy after 3+ hrs in the saddle
@@RugbyJunction But I only ride 25 mm and in dry weather, so rim brakes are still fine for me, though I do have plans for a disc brake build.
@@RugbyJunctionwho the heck uses anything above 28 on a road bike? If you need wider tyres just get a gravel bike already.
Personally I think what the average cyclist does not need is deep section wheels, ie over 50mm, that possibly give you an Aero advantage at over 40 kph, be are far more dangerous in any sort of cross wind.
100% agree 👍
Agreed. Both my bikes are aero and came with 65mm. Coming from mountain bikes to road bikes,that first ride was nervous.
100% disagree . I have 72/78mm rims and they are so quick its a joke. Even on just cruising rides it is ridiculous how much faster they are. Obviously for racing it's a no brainer and is a massive advantage
I've been riding since the early 80s and my brakes have always been sh*t, and it's worked for me. What's the point in getting brakes that actually work?
Oh, and the REAL purpose of aftermarket pulley wheels is to color match them to your frame, just like tubeless gives you the ability co color match valves to your frame. What's not to like? Both will give a far more bling bike!
for everyday uses, rim brake with alloy wheelset for me. easy to maintain and cheap.
but it's good to have one superbike, at least to make you happy...
No Tubeless...have you guys lost your mind!!!! I have finished so many rides only to find out I had countless leaks that the sealant has done the intended job and 1 ride w/ the airliner I got home w/ 40km to go (wire bristle firmly embedded in foam liner). Never a problem on my road bike or gravel bike.
Tubeless works, as do disc brakes. Still, you do not NEED them, especially if the amount of money you have to spend and the effort it takes to rebuild your bike are greater than the advantage you might get from them. In my case, on average I suffer a flat every 3000 km or so, and it takes me no more than 10 minutes to change a tube, so the unappealing fiddling with sealant and stuff would not cut it for me.
Well as you might expect me to say, riding in the bunch and off the kemmelberg in this years Gent Wevelgem u23 with rim brakes in a peleton where everybody else rides disc brakes in the pouring rain was quite the scary adventure.
Disc brakes wouldve made my day alot easier then.
I've used tubeless on my road bike for years and I couldn't recommend it more highly. Punctures are crazily rare and are fixed in two minutes at the roadside with a plug. I would not cycle to work without it because a puncture causing me to be late is unacceptable for me. Just pick a rim/tyre combination known to work and you are sorted. Hugely disagree with it being on this list
totally agree so thumbs down for the video
@Ime, do you even realise that punctures have no fking thing in common with the fact that you runn tubless or not ? ..beside, it takes the same amount to put a new tube in your tire than it takes ti "fix it in 2 minutes at the roadside with a plug" ..
@@georgestate9384 That is just factually incorrect. Firstly you can't get pinch flat punctures with tubeless. Secondly, the sealant will seal the vast majority of punctures. Thirdly, inserting a tubeless plug just involves inserting the plug with the right tool. To change an inner tube you have to change gear, take the back wheel out, take the tyre and tube out, fit the new tube in, fit the tyre back on, put the wheel back on. Even with a formula one style tyre change that will take much longer. Open your mind up to change!
Ime - George 1-0
I have to agree with Ime with reference to puncture sorted out straight away by the sealant and no inner tubes to be pinched. But I got lots of friends still running with clincher tires. Enjoy your rides...both of you
If mainly concerned with punctures, I'd rather have a proper puncture-resistant clincher tyre. I've tried running tubeless, running clincher with sealant, and puncture resistant clincher, and for me the best combination of price, availability, and hassle is puncture resistance. But then again I mainly commute on the bike. Also, I fail to see how pinch flats can be a thing on the road, unless riding over steps and potholes. A glass shard will screw up your tyre, tubeless or not.
I agree with your 'don't need' upgrades, with the exception of tubeless setups for road bikes.
I've covered 10,000km on my Defy road bike, which has a tubeless setup, and I've had at least 8 punctures that were sealed with the sealant, which allowed me to complete the ride. Usually, I don't even know I've had a puncture until I look, at a coffee break, or when I get home.
They are a bloody mess if the tire has to be taken off the rim, though.
You mix up "nice to have" with "need". And eight punctures over 10,000 km means you have shitty tires. I went through three whole sets of regular clichers (about 11,000 km) without a single flat.
@@einundsiebenziger5488 The tires weren't crap (Conti GT 5000), but the roads sure are.
You did not mention "up grading" from 10 to 11 or 12 or 11 to 12 speed. A very expensive change for no gain, in fact possibly a downgrade. less cogs is a bit less weight, less expensive chains, less precision needed on the adjustments. The annoying thing is unavailability of top end cassettes for 10 speed
... fewer* cogs.
I agree with everything, even disc brakes. The deals nowadays with rim brake bikes are insane, total dream machines. That's how I procured mine. Yes disc brakes stop you faster...in the wet, but let's be honest if the stopping distance in the wet that disc brakes provide over rim brakes, is the difference between crashing or not, the problem is not brake tech, stop riding like an animal, us weekend warriors aren't going to win any races.
Tubeless and hydro disk breaks Yes. Got 5 flats on a200mi ride and switched to tubeless. Way fewer flats now. Love the control with disk breaks and I have more rim options.
disc* brakes* (break = snap in two/interrupt)
Tubeless tires continental 5000 with American classic 420 aero the combination are perfect.
I love tubeless tires, I won’t go back to tubes. I love disk breaks, I would never want to go back to rim brakes. I’m rather surprised you put those two on your list.
disc* brakes* (break = snap in two/interrupt)
Have an 'old fashion' Dura Ace Serie 9000 from 2013 on my 6.7 kg road bike. Works flawlessly, super light, super funnctional, no headache, easy to maintain and repair. All do it yourself. Pure fun
I love disc brakes. However, if you're not running wide tires, and you don't cycle in very wet conditions, then they don't offer enough of a benefit. Although an argument could be made if using carbon wheels.
Also if you live in flat regions, and thus have to brake less or not at all, rim brakes are fine.
I guess you only ride on the flats?
@@JohnDough-yr2zt the hills in my region by far dont need disc brakes. Also alloy wheels. Feels safe enough for me so🤷🏼♂️
@@EstelonAgarwaen I live in Santa Rosa, Ca, where my friend Levi trained for the TdF. My rides avg about 60 mi, 5k ft and sometimes up to 100/10k. Disc brakes are awesome.
@@JohnDough-yr2zt i have them on my commuter bike. Work great. Saved my ass on a descent in Switzerland. Here in northerm germany theres no reason for disc brakes. Its pretty flat.
Totally agree with all your selections guys. Good work
when you and your bike get to 110 kg, disk brakes are waaaay better especially on descents. On flat, I ride on rim brakes since you need to slow down only few times in the whole ride.
On the other hand, you can get a great deal on a bike that's under 8 kg with good old rim brake
if this oversized pully shit would be any good, than why is shimano not selling these in the first place on the dura ace?
I can only see two real improvements:
- Electronic shifting: Yes it's more expensive for now, but there's no reason it should be - on the contrary. It's a bit like when quartz watches first came out the seventies. Pretty soon we'll be seeing great electronic groups for discount prices.
- Disc brakes: When you put in lots of kilometers in winter weather commuting on poor roads, rim brakes just ea through rims. Hydraulic discs need little maintenance and separating braking from the other function of the rims just makes sense.
All the rest - tubeless, endless bottom bracket, headset and freehub "standards" and especially integrated cables, integrated cockpits and proprietary seatposts are nothing but a massive pain in the backside for 95% of cyclists.
I’m my view tubeless is one of the best innovations in cycling in the last 10 years particularly for for heavier riders on poorly maintained roads.
Most ceramic bearings will fail. Many have no seal, like the ones used by Campagnolo in their cranksets, and most have ceramic ball bearings on steel runners. The discrepancy in mismatched materials' hardness index will lead one or the other wearing out prematurely. If you're a pro who gets new bikes on the regular and is never around to watch these things wear out they're great. If you have money for one new road bike, it's to your benefit all your components are durable. NTN and NSK are Japanese, steel, and impeccably manufactured.
Tubes in both my gravel bike and road bike. 2000 miles and 4 punctures, 2 were slow over night thorns, not replaced on the road, and 2 where from one pothole crash. During 4 or 5 years amateur racing not even sure how many races, had maybe 2 punctures during TT's, and none during a year of XC MTB racing. Rim brakes on road bike are good but with some major steep technical descents around me i like the disk brakes on my gravel bike. But can still ride them with the road bike rim brakes. Drew.
Cracking video, and agreed pretty much on what you discussed!
Tubeless is great until you come into contact with a Gravel king SS, this can change your mind in a pretty short time indeed! On my road bike I simply run tubes with replaceable valve cores, and pump a little Stan's into them. And yes, my road bike is still on rim brakes! ✌️
A little bit of sealant inside your inner tubes is one of our winter tricks too
As a person who lives in a desert where everything is pointy. Tubeless was a must have when I was searching for a new road bike.
Do you need disk brakes? I’m 6’5”, 215lbs and have never felt like my old Ultegra rim brakes were lacking power.
Oh god, this must be just comment-bait (but i'll bite anyway), how can you add two of the best road bike improvements since decades in this list. disc brakes allow for better braking, certainly when it is wet, let me know again how well the descend went on that alp in the wet (this was exactly the moment i knew i wanted disc brakes) and also when commuting and it rains and a car suddenly pulls in front of you, you basically piss your pants hoping to stop in time. and they also allow for wider tires, good luck with wide tires on rim brake bikes.
re tubeless, well, all i can say, who wants to swap inner tires on a dark, wet and cold winter ride/commute? not me, i once drove home with a nail through and through the tire, let allone all the times you got a puncture without even knowing about it. god, i never want to go back to those pre-tubeless times. all the early issues are mainly fixed at this point, i can now put on tubeless tires without tools and pop them on the rim with a floorpump.
This is very informative and true info, thank you mates..
Holiday? I haven't been on holiday in years; and on this side of the pond, mate, we call it vacation!
electronic shifters. Please Shimano, think about mechanical, thanks!
Tubeless is awesome- way less punctures, less rolling resistance and lower pressures = more comfortable- just much better - but you do need to know what to do to make it work well- but it isn’t rocket science
depends where you live and ride; I haven't had a puncture for the last 2 years (while racing and riding approx. 10K a year), so there isn't a puncture-advantage going tubeless. Maybe there are other advantages, but I saw a guy with a tubeless tyre rolling off his (expensive) carbon rim, and besides damaging the rim, he had latex all over his bike and had to call someone to pick him up.
Nah, I got a nail in my tire and the sealant exploded everywhere and good thing I had a spare tube. Some lightweight Tubolitos tubes roll faster and are a lighter setup.
@@Motorsportsgeek that is a rare thing. The vast majority of punctures will just be sealed up. Also, tubless will prevent snake bites if you hit a pothole.
Not to mention biggest benefit. Safety. It will less likely to blowout if there's a puncture. It's more likely to deflate. That's why the automotive industry mostly uses tubeless.
@@GeraldGuevara a tubless tire will blow out worse on a road bike and you'll be riding on your nice carbon rim with sealant all over you. There are many reasons why pros in tour the France use clincher tires or tubbed, safety is the main reason but their are others.
Wider bicycle tires are an upgrade. They offer slightly better rolling resistance, improved cornering, and increased comfort.
>Complains that tubeless isn't good because it's a pain to set up
>Uses a mini pump to try to seat the tyre
Finally someone has said it out loud
Disc brakes need no but if you changing your bike then disc are a must after having rim brakes then going to disc is like a major upgrade especially if you want carbon wheels in dry or wet! I did Helvellyn Tri in lake District a few times with rim carbon wheels and basically racing down Kirkstone pass was a nightmare as i knew even in dry that the carbon dodging other riders/cars/ stone walls ! But with disc brake+carbon wheels I can stop on descent without dead hands, more grey hair or frame wobble! Plus being 85kg+ it's no good saying i don't have that issue because you are 65kg wet 😁
It's OK to say gains are "non-existent" rather than "minimal" for stuff that is clearly for bling .. which is what all you reviewed consisted of. It's also OK to say "negative gain" as well which was the case for a set of rat trap pedals from Wellgo, least as delivered. The pedal shafts were notchy feeling and inconsistent between the 2 pedals. It was an assembly issue and bad engineering. There is no D washer to keep the bearing nut from turning when the locking nut is tightened. Had to create a special socket within a socket to keep bearing nut still while the locking nut was tightened. Once adjusted properly they were OK. Had to re-engineer the plastic rat trap part as well as it has a very bad attachment system. One trap even pulled over the pan heads of the attachment screws.
Thanks for the very helpful info. And telling the truth about components and products.👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Tubeless on road bikes have and tried but if on 28mm or below the sealant isn't good enough under 65psi plus and yes if you as are over 86kg then the pressure is higher! So 50psi or ideally sub 40 psi they are worth it so 40mm+ tires😁I still ride Lyrica tubes on 28mm - 32mm with no puncture issues in last 2years+ 😁