How to Use a Flowmeter Instead of a Regulator for Welding - Kevin Caron
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- From www.kevincaron.com - Artist Kevin Caron explains why he exchanged his welding regulator for a flowmeter on his TIG welder. He tells why the flowmeter, which controls volume rather than working pressure, helps improve your welds, whether you're using a TIG welder, a MIG welder or even a plasma cutter. See more how to videos at www.kevincaron.com
10 years after upload and this was just what I was looking for.
Timeless.
"Edited"
I'm a beginner getting in.
I have a flow meter (A little ball)", not a dual or anything other than. If yo want that they can run into a few hundred $, especially if you have to also purchase hoses.
I got a Unimig Regulator with a Flow ball because it was priced right and its just below industrial level grade tool usage.
I'm glad this was here to watch.
Thank you for watching and posting.
Kevin is the kind of guy who gives people a chance to get that "Detail that will make the difference". Thank you for that great tip ;) Cheers from belgium.
Mr.Kevin im in west palm beach , florida.And I just bought a used lincoln pro-mig 135 and you're helping me learn alot.God bless you and keep giving us the great videos. You're the best on youtube. Thanks again
Kevin, you're not using a flow meter instead of a regulator, you're using one in combination with a regulator. That part of the assembly to which the cylinder contents gauge is attached is a fixed pressure regulator. More specifically, it's a single stage regulator, a type I'd not use for oxy acetylene welding, since they tend to "flutter", and not maintain an accurate working pressure, which leads to an inability to maintain the correct welding flame characteristics. Probably OK for a shielding gas, though.
Were there no regulator in the assembly, it would be possible for the flow indicator/gauge and the hose as far as the machine solenoid valve to be subjected to cylinder pressure, with potentially disastrous results. 150 bar, or 2,200 psi is far more than hoses can withstand... I've been present when a guy opened up an oxygen cylinder valve, letting full cylinder pressure into a faulty regulator, and thereby into the hose. Had the previous user relieved the spring of the regulator after use, perhaps the hose might have been saved, or certainly, the operator might have become aware of a fault earlier, as he adjusted his working pressure. As it was, the hose went bang, immediately the cylinder valve was opened...
Fifty years ago, (so this is not new) I was taught TIG welding, using two stage, two gauge argon regulators (not all two gauge regulators are two stage, generally, two stage regulators have a larger body) and separate, removable, flow indicators. It is also possible to obtain a flow indicator to apply at the tig or mig torch shroud to check flow at the point of application before starting work, too... The flow indicator at the regulator only indicates that shielding gas is getting past the machine's solenoid valve at the indicated rate, not guaranteeing it gets to the torch. any leaks (or a connection left completely undone) after the solenoid valve will reduce the actual flow to the torch.
I used to point the torch at my cheek (they're sensitive areas) momentarily before starting welding to get an idea of gas flow. Not recommended with HF tig starting, or with MIG, unless you relieve the pressure on the drive rolls...
I'm only here to see if I can find some accurate information on video for a relative who's in the process of buying a tig plant for his garage... I don't want him thinking a regulator's not necessary... It is!
Given the cost of welding gases nowadays, it's important to use them at the right rate, for the task (internal/external corners, say) and flow indicators are cheaper than wasted gas in the long term.
In principle, though, flow indicators are highly recommended.
Always learning something!
Thanks for posting.
@vinybinder I have got to get over there someday. Its still on the to do list...
Thanks for posting...
Thank you , sir. Didn't realize I had to press the trigger to get it to float, HaHa! Fantastic!
Sometimes you just have to press the buttons!!
Thanks Kevin
“Horrible Freight Place” lol
I like that place, I go there every once in a while.
They do have some good stuff. But I tend to stay away from the more expensive stuff they carry.
@huerdon I have tried it in the past. Got a much different cut than running straight air.
I just bought one of those TIG that does stick, plasma, and TIG. However having to change air source sucks so I stuck a standard quick connect to the end of a short section of hose. If I TIG, I pop the hose on from the machine, and if I need to plasma cut, I pop it off and put it in an air compressor.
Have never played with that kind of 3 in1 machine. Never thought about how the air hose for plasma hooks up. Thanks for the info.
Manuals? We don't need no stinking manuals. We just need to watch your vids, Kevin. With "The Voice" asking all the right questions, we don't need no stinking manuals... Thanks, guys.
I used to drink liters per minute now I can regulate my gas the same way...hahahaha
This is an excellent instructional video Kevin, Thank You my friend!
...now get back to work =)
I have a 200 syncrowave sitting in my tool room. I parked it when I got the Longevity and haven't started it since. The Longevity uses about 1/2 the power to do the same job, is smaller and easier to move around. I feel it is also easier to adjust. The Longevity costs less than 1/2 of a syncrowave as well. The Miller on the other hand as a long history of being a very reliable machine. Longevity has only been around for about 10 years so they have a ways to go to build that reputation.
Hey Kevin, nice video! When using TIG on thin metal or sheet try to weld at 6 liter per minute, they should suffice for most applications and it saves gas and gascup turbulence. If your weld gets contaminated you can always increase the flow. Sorry for liters per minute instead of CPH but thats how we role in Europe ;-)
Another one out of the ball park! I was interested in your suggested flow settings.
I figured the 8-12 lpm as a starter setting and see the results from there. The double setup is also good to use as a purge if you are welding stainless pipe.
Buy American, and, you won't think about the price after you have to replace the junky one from the cheap freight place you mentioned.
Great info. Thanks to both you & mrs Kevin (...or Mary, & mr Mary)
Nice little video, would like to have had seen some examples of how to set it by use, ie. to little gas to much gas and what's just right. But thanks for posting the vid. Thumbs up. Best Wishes n Blessings Keith
Thanks for reply to my previouse Question about the flow setting on a regulator, however i have also purchased a flow meter but stil running my main/regulator on top of my bottle and from there to a water trap regulator witch got a eazy coupler on and i actually got my flow meter on the outlet or the other side of the solenoid as the length and the thickness of the pipe play a roll in the actual outlet flow, flow meter is set to 8 l/min is ideal,since the flow meter i used les Argon.Great video
@MrMldillman You crack me up sometimes...
Stay warm up there....
my miller 252 came with a smith, but i dislike, i have no leaks, but the gauges are never consistent, so i just got a victor flowmeter, hopefully if works better
I believe most of the new flow meters have regulators built in to get rid of that problem. They are just a fixed pressure so nothing to adjust.
Correct. They actually have adjustments (screw and jam nut) for factory setting.
Thanks, I will give that setting a try next time I am welding..
Yes, if you are going to run bottled gas on a plasma you have to have the regulator control the pressure coming out of the bottle. But most of the time you can get by with just using shop air.
Thank you Kevin!
Thanks for watching and posting.
With no back pressure your gauge may not read. I have had that happen before. Put the hose back on and it should read. If not then it is probably bad.
i've tested several of the inexpensive 2-gauge flow regulators with an accurate flowmeter downstream and have found that they are very inaccurate.. most tend to flow more gas than the gauge indicates. the floating ball regulator/flowmeter is much more accurate but in the past was also much more expensive, which is why inexpensive mig welders come with the cheaper regulator. i have 2 victor floating ball regulator/flowmeters, one for argon/steel mix/tri mix and the other for straight co2, both were almost $300 new 20 years ago... expensive yes but eventually you make it up in savings by not wasting expensive gas. and victor stuff is built like a tank and lasts forever.
Very true! The flow meter is much more accurate. Thanks for watching and posting.
@strube1369 That's what I think also. Screw the manual. If the machine is so complex that you can't figure it out on your own than either it needs to be redesigned or you need to keep your fingers off of it!!!
I like your videos, I was just wondering what the different settings (pressure or amounts of flow) you us for mig and tig for most of the common configurations ( steel, aluminum, 2g, 3g,etc) when do u us more gas when do u us less. I think that might be a good video.
Useful information, Thanks for it. I have a question. What is the use of the little nut located at the bottom of pressure gauge? do we need the adjust or set it up?
Not sure to tell the truth. Never had a reason to play it.
Kevin, what part of the ball bearing on the flow meter do you take the measurement? Top, bottom?
+krssnoop The top.
Thanks Kevin been looking everywhere for the answer.
Hi thanks for nice video , my tig welding machine needs 30 psi of argon gas, how much liter per minute should I adjust I got same pressure regulator please let me know if possible thanks.
Toss the regulator in the tool box and get a flow meter. Set the top of the ball to 12 to 15 on the argon scale. You will save a lot of money on the gas you save by using the flow meter over a regulator.
Can you ad a flow meter to a standard regulator? I have an expensive regulator and would like to do that instead of replacing it with a entire new unit with flow meter only.
Not that I have ever seen.
@@KevincaronSculpture I'm doing it. Bought a victor flow meter and I am going to ad a line to it and mount it so the gas flows through it. I could be wrong but I don't really see any reason why it wont work. On dedicated flow meters there is no pressure adjustment. I will be able to adjust pressure and flow.
@kevincaron plasma cutters usually run shop air or nitrogen. Never co2 or argon
I just want to point out that just because the regulator has 2 gauges, that doesn't mean it's really a pressure regulator. Many machines come with a 2 gauge "flow regulator" They have a metered orifice on the outlet, and although when you turn the knob you are adjusting the pressure that goes to that orifice, only a given amount of gas will pass through that orifice at that pressure. So the manufacturer puts a "flow gauge" on the output side of the regulator that tells you how much gas you are flowing. That gauge in the USA would usually read in cubic feet per hour, or CFH. So if your gauge reads CFH, it's NOT a pressure regulator. The tube type, which is usually called a "flow meter" is more accurate, but the "flow regulator" is OK for most applications.
BTW, the regulator show at 5:15 is a flow regulator, not a pressure regulator.
Learn something new every day!
Is it normal for the gauge that displays tank pressure to drop from 2100psi to ZERO within a period of say 15 -20 minutes after closing ALL valves?
Think I have a defective flow-meter, flowmeter is brand-spanking new. Mfg unknown, sold by HTP.
***************
(EDIT called HTP, HTP is definitely going on my "Short List" for future welding needs. Don't know if the behavior I'm seeing is "normal" but without having to jump thru hoops (work /fight for getting a item replaced) Paul said he was shipping a replacement @ no-charge
* I have only interacted with Paul twice, but I can definitely say HTP has a winner in Paul'.
Paul is one of those types of people you "hope" picks up the phone when you are calling in with a "problem" and need a speedy resolution. He appears to be geniuely interested in "making the customer happy", realizing that if you do such you create life-long customers. I don't know Paul personally but I'd say he's a definite asset to HTP and I'd hire him in a minute!)
****************
Doing TIG, manual gas valve on torch. Tank on Argon tank looks new.
(LWS showed me a couple of tanks that displayed a mfg date of 2014-04, saying when I "BOUGHT" a tank it would be "NEW" but local LWS pulled a fast one. First trying to give me a tank from 2010... ended up with a 2012
I was planning on keeping the same tank long term. "NEW" to me means it's NEW when I am quoted a price. )
Q: Is it normal for the gauge that displays tank pressure to drop from 2100psi to ZERO within a period of say 15 -20 minutes when you close both the tank valve and valve that adjusts the flow rate fully?
(Valve on torch is also closed, not that would make a difference "if' valve that adjusts "flow" is sealing properly in the fully closed position.)
It is normal for a flow-meter to "Bleed Down" so rapidly? Seems like with all valves closed it would retain pressure for longer than 15-20 minutes
What is the best way to check for leaks? Soapy water, with power removed to the welder or course, and letting torch dry out for a day or so if exposed to to water right?
(Hate to get water inside the flowmeter.)
.
*****
Q: On the regulator you have.... if you close the valve which regulates the flow-rate fully, and then turn off the gas feeding the regulator.... What kind of pressure drop (if any) are you seeing over xyz amount of time?
I'm assuming the "leak" / the pressure drop is within the regulator itself and or the "valve" you turn which regulates the flow-rate isn't sealing.
To clarify the machine (Don't hate me) is a EverLast PowerArc 140st (2014-01 mfg date) does not have a internal solenoid. Gas does not flow "thru" the machine.
Hookup is:
Tank>Regulator>about a six foot length of EverLast supplied Poly Vinyl Chloride 8mm OD black hose that ties /feeds into /is part of the male DINSE 25mm style connector that plugs into the faceplate of the machine. Total length of the length of hose the argon is flowing thru about 16ft counting the approximately 10ft long hose that at the other end has a WP-17 TIG head with a *manual on-off gas knob on torch.
*Manual gas valve seems to have a excessive amount of radial clearance in it (Play in shaft) and I have to torque down more than I'd prefer to get it to seal.
(I can hear gas leaking unless I really crank down on it.).
If you would please check your setup and see what kind of pressure drop you are seeing over xyz amount of time.
PS: Appreciate you taking time out of your day to respond. Used to TIG years ago, TIG welding on jet engine internal engine parts so I'm sort of rusty.
.
*****
In case it helps someone:
Try a stethoscope, section of tubing to see if you can "hear" the leak first.
Applying soapy water is ok on the fittings but "rethink" applying soapy water to regulator /gauge itself.
Applying soapy water resulted in water in the gauge thru a vent hole (duh)
No big deal on that, take the faceplate off and use a gentle stream of compressed air to evaporate any remaining water.
While applying the soapy water noticed bubbling on side of regulator body... Upon closer inspection I see two venting holes in lower body of regulator.
Upon seeing that sort of distressed on thinking about what damage any water introduced into the internals might now.
(Lower body of regulator when you look at it looks like a "cup". Whatever water you introduce into the regulator can't escape.)
My solution was while gauge was apart I heated up brass regulator body/gauge with a blow dryer for about 5mins to raise temp enough to evaporate any residual water inside regulator.
I guess I should really take lower part of regulator off and verify water isn't present but most likely any "seals" would have to be replaced.
(Debating about using compressed air to blow thru the vent holes to help evaporate any moisture remaining as my compressor doesn't have much run-time on if.)
Anyhow...Upon using a stethoscope to listen for leaks sure enough gas is bleeding out of vent holes... with gas turned on fully... gas bleeding out the entire time main gas valve is open... and when gas has been turned off...bleeding pressure off till it goes to ZERO.
Regulator is IMO definitely defective.
Guess that would explain 100psi of gas disappearing just doing a few practice welds. Glad it was Argon instead of something that would cause a explosion.
.
When I first started welding I didn't have a proper flow meter attached and consequently wasted a lot of gas. After fitting a flow meter I set it to the recommended 7 LPM, have since lowered it to 2.5 LPM which works just as well. How low are you running at?
I think mine is at 3 LPM.
Thank you for watching.
Thank you, appreciate the help
No problem 👍
I'd sure like to know how to get a hold of one of those. Looked online and couldn't find that exact one. Is there one for nitrogen? How does one calculate for nitrogen on an argon metre? Also, can you use a regular 1 1/8" wrench to attach it, and how tight?
check here,, www.everlastgenerators.com/catalog/migtig-argon-regulators Not sure on using nitrogen and how it will work. Sorry.
Are you using a "gas lens" kit which is supposed to lower gas consumption?
I do have a couple of gas lens sets that I use.. Need to get a new set for the other machine also..
@1promods Thanks!
I am not to proud to say I shop there also. Wherever I can get the piece I need for a price I can afford.......
@stillbashingmetal Thanks, wait until you see whats coming next!!!
@TeacherPhilEnglish So we both measure up to the same spot!!
Cool, thanks for posting....
I have never tried one before.
I would say stick with one that is made for welding. Easier to hook up and you know for sure that it will work.
Is it normal for the ball on the flowmeter to be slightly bouncing up and on down at the cfh you set it at or is it supposed to stay there steadily?
Should stay steady. Might have a leak somewhere.
Kevin, at about the 5 minute mark, you said plasma cutter, did you mean that a person needs a argon/co2 regulator to run a plasma cutter?
Hey Kevin I have a question, should I always close the flow meter after each use or can I leave it set open (no pressure in the line) so its at the right flow rate for next time I weld? Cheers.
I don't touch mine once it is set correctly.. just turn off the bottle when you are done..
+Kevin Caron, Artist Thanks :)
on flowmeters vs regulators the only thing that is "annoying" about flowmeters is that as the tank pressure decreases (the tank gets empty) you have to keep adjusting the flowmeter up! a regulator always has constant flow...
I just bought a Miller 22-80-580 flowmeter and it didn't come with a bodok seal. Do I need a bodok seal for this flowmeter or will it seal properly to the tank valve?
Should work just fine. Have no personal experience with the Miller but from the photos online it looks just like mine.
Thanks Kevin. I went ahead and hooked it up just to find out and that flowmeter is really working nicely for me. I'm so glad to not be using the fluxcore anymore. I never really did figure out how to weld right with that wire. Now I'm back to professional looking solid welds and got my confidence back. Lol.
Many thanks super helpful
Glad it helped!
What are the benefits of using it other than regulator
Better control of the gas. Less waste and better welds. Too high of flow can also screw up a weld.
Hi Kevin, can straight argon bottles be used laying down horizontal?
I believe so. You might check with your local gas supplier.
Im having issues installing my airflow regulator. It even popped the hose off of the end. Not sure what I am doing wrong or if the regulator doesnt work for my welder
Sorry , need more info. What welder, flow meter do you have? You said it popped the hose off, did it break the hose? Or just come off the nipple? Does the hose fit loose, like it is the wrong hose? Can you snip the end of the hose and get a tighter fit? Did you open the brass adjustment knob to get gas flow?
Can you blow the flow meter by accident
Not that I know of.
is the Longevity tig welder any good, compared to miller synchrowave?
Interesting. I thought the gauges were better. Shows what I know. Thanks!
Very nice
Thanks for watching!
Shit, now I got more questions, argon for plasma? Liters, 8 to 12, what's that in standard?
Don't need to run argon for plasma. You "can" but not needed. I just run shop air and make sure it is dry with a filter or two. My plasma cutter needs about 65 psi and wants about 60 gallons of capacity to run correctly. Have run a small plasma on a roofing compressor, just not for very long.
@@KevincaronSculpture compressed air is what I used, just wondering why anyone would use expensive gas? Maybe special material?
@@KevincaronSculpture as for liter question 20 to 25 cfpm, and it's about 8 psi.
@kevincaron --- thanks buddy...me too =)
@donyboy73 Yeah, my old on died. Had to do something....
i think my bottle pressure gauge is broken because i opened my tube with it off and alot of gas came out but the gauge said zero.what is wrong?????
Already have a 2-gauge regulator. Can a simple and inexpensive flow meter be installed downstream (and flow adjusted at the regulator)?
+DFWKen Just replace the regulator with the flow meter...
Liters per minute? Do you live in Canada?
No but I am trying to include everyone!
I have a question i baught a flow meter of course from ebay i know that was my first mistake but anyhow with the gas valve open, its a 17 torch valve on top, with the valve completely open and gas flowing the metal ball shoots up and will reach 20cubic foot and if i try to regulate it lower the ball falls to the bottom then i slowly turn it to rise the pressure it will reach 15 cubic foot but bounce up and down slowly, the argon hose i have has to be like 25 feet long could that be my problem ? any help would be great thanks.
Just barely open the valve on the torch. Or use a regulator for that style of torch.
Kevin Caron, Artist thank you sir
You have some nice toys in your shop, Kevin. :-)
Actually, your are 100% incorrect. The gauge you show at 5:15 is a combination of pressure regulator (bottle pressure) on the right and a flow meter (lpm & cfm} on the left. Basically the same as what you now have mounted on your gas bottle, but in meter form rather than vial form. They both function the same - you are merely adjusting the flow of gas to your welder by either raising or lowering the ball (your current vial) or turning the dial (your old regulator). Not new either - they've both been readily available since before 2012 when you posted this video (obviously as you show at 5:15). Victor makes an extremely accurate pressure/flowmeter dial gauge setup - their FG250-50-580 argon/co2 flowgauge regulator. So, don't be chucking your regulator until you ascertain exactly what you have connected to your gas bottle...
Good point, thanks for posting and watching.
What is best for a 6g TIG root? I have several people telling me either or
Would like your and anyone else's input.
Sorry, never done one. Don't have an opinion.
Kevin Caron, Artist thanks anyway. your videos are great
Visit real welding forums to get more pipe welding info for any skill level, not just RUclips. Weldingwelb and the Miller forums are the best for US welders. Migwelding.uk cover all process EU style equipment.
Pipe welders rightly prefer flowmeters. A tee and two singles is (second is for purge but if you are getting paid I strongly suggest owning more than one flowmeter to have a spare) how I set up ours at a welding school so if you damage one flowmeter you don't have to send out a dual for more expensive overhaul.
nice helmet
Hi, I want to achieve flow rate of between 15-20Lpm nitrogen gas however my regulator is in psi/bar,I understand that 'Bar/Psi' is pressure and that Lpm is flow however is there a way to do this? Thanks
Get a flow meter for nitrogen. The tube will be calibrated for your gas.
Gosh I Never thought of doing that...Getting back to my question can it be done? No obnoxious answers plz?
I don't know if it can be done or not. Maybe you could ask the guys on WeldingWeb. They do this kind of thing for a living.
Thanks kev will do
This dude sounds like he's imitating Kermit the frog
I'm not. I just sound this way.
what is like 40 ltr/min in psi terms?
Not sure but you should run in the 12 to 18 psi area on a pressure gauge.
you really cant compare flow with pressure...
@TheToolReview I am almost ready to show off my skills at aluminum.
Another few hundred feet and I will put on a show for you'll.....
Try goggling for a "welding flow-meter" instead....
Kev,In my 35 Years, Ive used Both,depending on which on isnt leakinking! and have really found NOT alot of difference I still prefere the Flow Meter,as the Prices have come WAY!!down,, Cheaper new than to get a regulater repaired,, although mine are the Old KG's some are Older than You and Me Put toghter,LOL!!!!!!!,So,Its Not Like parts are easy,,and I Just found a spare box of parts,when I sold the Older than dirt dungon i ownd,, Like a Big treasure chest,, Storts is 108 years Old, SO.......
My Wife an Daughter don't like riding in the car with me because they say I release a large volume of gas..
cool
People before you get mistaken and throw away your regulators for a cheap meters that uses a ball and sight glass, make sure you know what you have. Never use a pressure regulator for mig or tig because they measure in PSI, Regulators for tig and mig measure in CFH/LPM aka "flowmeter" some flow meters look like oxygen "pressure" regulators, Just a tip to save people some money but not all flow meters look the same or have to be the ball type , I wanna see some aluminum welding Kevin :)
To Finish,,There were Treaure chests of goodies,when I sold the Building and Move,,,Are they any good??????? well thats to be seen,, 1 Box full of the Old KG regulagurs repair Kits,,WOW!!!!!!!!!!! the rubber disugraded,In my hands,,and those are the toughest to find!!!!!! Well,Like I said,,Time will tell!,Jack
Old post but for anyone else reading this if you have an ancient regulator or torch your best bet for parts is Seal-Seat. KG are probably LONG out of support because it's such an ancient brand.
Horrible Fright. Ha ha.
HorribleFreight
Steven, I Dont have any Kids, But I sure do a Job, On the Power Windows,well NOT ME!!!!,,MY Wife!!!,, I Persnally Think it all in Her Head!!!!!,LOL,,,GOOD ONE!!!!!!,Thanks,Jack
My new unimig 200ACDC Pulse TIG won't output any gas. TURNING THE FLOW METER KNOB IN (i.e. screwing the knob in or out) INCREASES OR DECREASES THE FLOW RATE??? There is NIL info on exactly how a flowmeter works anywhere on the pedantic, semantic know-it-all internet, only self praise. It's a public holiday so I can't get any work done. I never had any trouble with the pressure meters. Flow meter looks so SIMPLE (probably designed by morons for morons) until you need to use it. Typical ..Change for change sake. and a new profit earner. All the old pressure gauges rendered obsolete in one foul swoop. 27JAN2017
Start at the bottle. Open valve a second to make sure gas flows. Then install the flow meter. Open valve again, does the meter go up? Then with out the hose installed open the knob on the flow meter, Gas flow? Then install hose and try again. Have seen hose fittings that were not drilled out before! Or toss it back in the box and just use a pressure regulator. Set the pressure to about 5 on the dial and go from there. Flow meters are great to get a more accurate flow and save gas.
Appreciate your reply, but still want to know which way opens the knob... clockwise or anticlockwise..
anticlockwise will open the valve.
Thank you, Kevin. I was sure anticlockwise opens the valve, but not 100% sure. I am wary of explosion risk using high pressure containers. Rgds from Arnold Cook, Australia 28JAN2018
FYI, did as you suggested. Prob = blocked flowmeter base = dismantled = fine grit inside inlet gallery.= Now works fine. Thanks again.. I can save my day. 28JAN2018
Horrible freight place, hilarious! Harbor freight gets bo respect, lol.
supercaptainamericanmarvelman It's the "Rodney Dangerfield" of tool stores! Lol