Floyd Rose Style Brass Block Install (Killer Guitar Components)
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- Floyd Rose style block upgrade. In this video, I cover the installation process of an aftermarket tremolo block into a Floyd Rose style bridge system. After the bridge is installed, there is a before & after comparison video, as well as a review.
Chapters:
Install 01:07
Demo 11:05
Review 12:20
actually..the more mass in the material that is making contact with the strings..the more the vibration is reflected back into the strings..the less massive material (zinc) absorbs the vibration...whereas the massive brass bridge reflects more of the vibration back..imagine throwing a ball against a cement wall versus a pillow...which one will send the ball back farther?
Since your explanation makes the most sense I figure I'll use this reply to let everyone know that I have edited out the "alternative facts" presented in this video when I didn't know any better haha. Thanks for setting it straight!
This is supposed to be more for sustain , should've done a bend test or just let notes singularly ring out
I put a brass big block from FU-tone (along with some of their high-tension noiseless springs) in my '91 RG565 a while back because it sounded really weak and I was getting mad feedback from the stock springs. After the mods it's easily the best sounding guitar I've ever owned, it just sings now. I can hear a difference on the video, but its kind of hard to quantify. The difference is much more apparent when you have the guitar in your hands, I think. As far as why it works, I think that the vibration of the strings causes the whole unit to vibrate with the low mass zinc block, resulting in lost energy that we hear as tone suck. In contrast, the high mass of the brass block requires much more energy to move, so less of the string vibration is lost because the brass block transfers it instead of absorbing and dissipating it. I think the high tension springs also help in this regard, contributing to a trem unit that feels rock solid.
Awesome tutorial, lot of info, lot of details in an organized way. I would say this's one of my favourite step by step video, and i've seen meany! Keep the work up.
Chris Johnson sent me, and I'm so glad he did! I learned sooooo much I never knew!
Great video.I use the full size brass blocks on the regular Stra trems.Huge difference.
I tried a brass block on my Gibson M-III and there is a difference which was subtle and made the tone slightly bolder overall. Transferring the resonance into the body doesn't have any effect on tone IMO b'cause the PUs only hear transverse waves as the strings cause the disruption of the magnetic field. Resonance or vibrations which you can feel when you hold the guitar when played are compression waves that which the PUs do not convert to sound.
I have one on all my electric guitars. I love them! It really gives you great flutter effects as well as great sustain especially when doing Dime squeals.
I bought a Titanium Block and it was Awesome! Crisp rhythm an gr8 sustain
Can't wait for KGC brass trem block to go in my prestige!
thanks much for your informative video! especially the part about having to only remove the 4 inner saddles! i just replaced the block on my original floyd rose.
Finaly somone who shows how to do it in a long vid instead of a 1 minute vid
Nice work on the video! Thanks for the step by step video. I'm thinking of doing this too.
The Ernie Ball Musicman John Petrucci 7 string has a custom brass tremelo block in it already. I have been thinking of upgrading the blocks for my Ibanez 7 strings. I just don't want to lose range of motion, I mean it want it just more mass in weight than over all size. I enjoyed the tip about using painters tape to mark the bridge saddles!
Very thorough video. I like the details!
Thanks for posting :)
holy shit I need to go get one now
I agree that the brass block has the ability to change your tone due to the fact that you are changing the mass of the bridge. However, the diagnosis of why is not correct. If the fundamental frequency is lowered that just produces a lower note, for example if you hit the A string and it vibrates at 440 Hz that is the fundamental frequency. If it were lower than that would technically be a different pitch, so to say it gives lower fundamentals is not correct or at the very least a misunderstanding of the term. The other fallacy is that the brass block allows more energy to transfer to the guitar. If more energy is escaping to the body of the guitar this will decrease "tone" or at the very least sustain. What is more likely is that the brass block is decreasing damping. Please don't just take my word on any of this. Look up the physics of standing waves, I am by no means an expert but these concepts are not hard to understand with some research. It seems like the information in the video was just made up by the author. I do not really care about being right or wrong, or gaining some intellectual high ground, just that misinformation is being spread about guitars.
You are correct, sir. I should've known better than to bring up a huge physics debate in my first video ever haha. I've since edited those parts out & thank you for the correction :-)
"significantly weightier"
I have a 7 string Ibanez Prestige RG1527M and I put a floyd upgrades brass block in it...what I was really looking for was more sustain...I didn't get it. It did change the tone of it, and yeah it did sound better, if I had to describe it I would say thicker or fuller, however the first thing I noticed is that the range of the trem went down quite a bit due to the size of the new brass block being a lot bigger than stock...I did not like this at all; the stock block is actually curved to fit the trem cavity, while these "upgrade" blocks are not curved at all. It affected the ability to do big dive-bombs and flutters. I went back to the original block, and swapped the pups for DiMarzio Crunch Lab / Liquefier 7's -- and that changed everything. It sounded even better than it did with the brass block just by changing the pups; no need for this shitty trem reducing block. If these companies made the brass blocks the same exact size as the stock and curved like the stocks so that it fits in the cavity just right, it would be a different story. Obviously brass is a better sounding material than whatever the hell Ibanez uses; I have a few PRSi and they all have brass blocks right from the factory.
That is a very awesome RG in the video by the way.
Bro we need more of your vids!
from your perspective..more energy is lost or transferred to the body through the zinc block rather than the Brass block which reflects the energy back to the strings..increasing sustain primarily..and those frequencies that resonate based on the mass of the brass block (and connected parts..bridge posts..material of guitar)
That was really great video, thanks!
Great Job Chris!
excellent how-to video.very clear and helpful.But that was the improved sound? It sounded thin, tinny, scratchy, had an annoying metallic clang, and pretty weak. no fat bottom end at all.
the density and mass of the trem block has much more impact, than the stiffness or other material properties, unless it was lead, rubber or so. it's a solid block of metal, so there is no deformation or "resonance" to speak of.
but more mass = more inertia! its harder for the string vibration, to get the trem assembly to move (vibrate) relative to the body, which reduced the inevidable dampening of a floating tremolo. (makes me wonder, what wonders a block of tungsten could do there)
The point of a big block is to hinder the transfer of the strings' energy into the springs, not help it. Not trying to be a dork here, but Newton's First Law of Motion tells us that a denser/heavier tremolo block is less apt to resonate with the strings because of inertia. It is that property, not absorbing the string's energy through resonance, that allows the strings to be louder and sustain longer.
I have an brass block from an old Ibanez blazer laying around! Need to see if it will work on one of my strats or RG's!! Come to think of it, maybe that's why all my other guitars collect dust but I can't put my old 81 Blazer down!!!
man you deserve more subs
nice modification man. all in good taste!!!!!
I can't hear a difference on RUclips. Live when a drummer kicks in whats the difference?
skunizzi none what so ever
Wow... The difference on my end is huge!
I got 4 brass blocks installed in my guitar. It is louder acoustically. Not really a huge difference plugged in. Buy aftermarket pickups if you want a drastic tone change.
The sound through YT is modest in volume. yes, in the distortion, you can a tad difference, however, in person, i know your amp and the feel there in your space is probably more enhanced. I didn't hear whether the sustain was impacted or made better? Sounds like a cool project!
Absolutely. It's hard to translate the full effect of the block through YT haha. It's very much a feel thing as well!
Awesome video! I'm thinking about mod my floyd rose with the brass block but I have a question: why do you have locking tuners if you have locking nuts of floyd rose? It's the first time that I see a Floyd Rose guitar with locking tuners. Thanks! Subscribed, cool channel ;)
Fran Canales to have a sexy guitar that's why lol. I was looking to do the same thing with mine and I have the same setup with the Floating bridge and tremol-no but sadly I couldn't find the right tuning heads because my guitar has a reverse headstock. But to really answer your question it's because of the tremol-no. You can set your bridge to be fixed with it and you wouldn't want to lock the nut so you can tune your guitar without having to unlock it. And the locking tuning heads are good for that part
Truth be told, I got them because I found them for cheaper than non-locking, standard gold & black Sperzels haha. If I were to do it again, I would put standard tuners on. The staggered posts are also totally unnecessary on the angled headstock.
Hard to tell. Couldn't see a gap between the two blocks. Would have been good to hear one sustain note in distortion and clean... with a touch of space in between the comparisons.
mmmmm that RG got so much vibe on it. i can feel it till here half a world away :) that raw mojo
+Alex Rysham Thanks Alex!
Cool video--next project for me.
Awesome, I hope this helps!
Great job, Kris! Have you ever had the block bolts loosen up on you? If so, a drop of blue Loctite on each one will do the trick (learned that racing karts, haha).
My biggest concern is tuning stability and if I can still flutter with a big block.....I have never felt a tone problem with my standard sized brass block.....I got a gfs tremolo....it's actually pretty awesome. Except that the brass block is 31.75 mm!!!! So the springs rub against the wood....wasn't sure to get a new block or just shave the wood a bit as it's only a few mm off
very good
Dude you should do something about that knife edges.
Yeah not much different in tone from youtube. I'm sure more sustain tho. and thicker tone from players standpoint. I'll be installing one anyway. My compartment covers are clear and need everything to look as good as possible.. What song in background? That's the tone I want!
+Terry Williams That's fair. I noticed the biggest difference with the distorted tone. The difference in the clean tone was very subtle.
sick guitar
Tone metal. I love modding,tweaking and if there is a upgrade I will buy it. I have many guitars that the upgrades cost more than the guitar and you will never get that money back. That said. I had a 5150 Kramer replica guitar striped,Frankenstein pu,FR system. I went all out and bought the "best" I could find. Titanium this, brass that, FU, the real deal Floyd etc. Well damned if i can tell a difference. There is the placebo effect and the pride and peace of mind knowing you cut no corners. Its a badass guitar but like hot rodding cars probably you are the only one who knows. Well you and the receipts for all that pricey tone metal.
Very nice tutiorial! Also; Your rg have an amazin look :) Thaks.
Helpfull video) Thnx)
Damn that sounded really good afterwards. I have a schecter with a floyd rose, and I am really thinking about hard tailing it by putting a block of mahogany in there. I don't have the heart to tell my girlfriend I'm not into to the f.r. because she surprised me with the guitar lol which is awesome! But anyway, you think that would fatten the tone a little bit or at all also? If so, a combo with this brass block and it pressed against the mahogany would be sweeeet.
Sonically, it wouldn't affect the tone at all. Putting a brass block does help with better string to bridge resonance and sustain but other than that, it doesn't color your tone.
I'm trying to make sense of this. Most guitar tech 's will say a shorter string path will better the sustain because it keeps the string energy in the active part of the string hence why Gibson's shorter scale has more. Also that transferring any energy into the wood is wasted energy which makes the most sense from the most basic physics outlook . Why would you want string energy going into a big piece of brass. Now before you go the religion route and tell me I just have to hear it I did a big block upgrade on my fender and while I like the way it feels I didn't get any better tone or sustain it simply feels better with the weight and slower response. For me it was more important to say that my MiM standard strat had all the same parts as an American Strat even the block.
+Phlop Alopagus Lets be realistic when you get to your side by side close your eyes and if it wasn't for the fact there is a small skip you wouldn't even hear the difference. Not even with your god ears lol. I own a small studio and have hundreds and hundreds of hours in ear training hours. I know why I did it....because I didn't know any better. I kept hearing everyone say you got to do this and you got to do that and wanted to try it and when I did it was just a disappointment. Even if it had it isn't something I couldn't have done by turning and eq +01 higher or lower lol. Please save your money for anything else or at least make this the very last thing you do. Even a resister type change effects tone 10 times more then this and is of lower importance in the larger scale of things.
To be honest Axe Hacks, i couldn't really tell any difference between the two blocks.
what pickups are you using?... beautiful work too... nice attention to every detail
+Joe Redwine Thanks Joe! DiMarzio Titans
The question is: brass or copper block?
Does this really matter, you can just EQ your amp+pedals to get the sound you want anyway?
Where can I find a backplate like the one at 3:06 ? I can't find any that have the special cavity for the tremol-no adjustment screws.
lol cut a hole in it
Cris how to make a zero Ibánez floyd rode whammy bar more softer
I already took out the stoppin bar
Thansk
Great videos
The best scenario would be no transference of vibration. Because that is an energy loss and you can also have cancellation of vibrations and exaggeration (modes and nodes). So This was probably bad if it had any effect at all.
ProjectP After watching a lot of videos about installing brass blocks, it seems to have a great effect actually... You very much want energy transference for optimal tonality and sustain.
Did you cut the backplate yourself or did you purchase one like that?
I first purchased the Ibanez backplate that has the three holes in it for tension screw access, then I used a Dremel tool to cut the additional space for the Tremol-No.
Nice scoop on the back of that RG, did you do that yourself?
Sure did! Copied the lines from my RGD body & applied a few of them to the RG.
Axe Hacks
Wow, looks reaaaaally good! I am doing the same to my RG7620, so I can appreciate how nice and "CNC'd" yours looks.
Did you do it all by hand using a rasp and sandpaper?
Cryptopsy666 Yep! First I measured & marked the body with a pencil outline, then used the rasp to get the basic shape. From there I went at it with a finer file, then to sandpaper. I believe I went 400-600-800 grits & finally went over the whole thing with 0000 steel wool before starting with the Tru Oil.
Axe Hacks
Nice, it's definitely tedious work and all that sanding gives the fingers a nice workout, but the results speak volumes.
So that whole body is finished in Tru Oil? I'm actually tru oiling a mahogany bodied S540 right now and it seems pretty easy so far but if you have any tips you'd like to share, I'm all ears.
Cryptopsy666 I do! I just finished re-finishing the back of a mahogany neck on my acoustic guitar. What I learned from working with more porous woods: Use Murphy's Oil Soap in your routine! I ended up doing this:
-Apply Tru-Oil coat
-After coat has dried, go over with 0000 steel wool
-Spray some oil soap onto a rag, wipe down steel-wool'd area
-Repeat about 3 times
As for the Gunstock wax, I did two coats on the body & the mahogany neck. For that, just wipe on, let dry a couple minutes, buff off. Done!
Have you tried the fu-tone blocks? If so, wich one, between the kcg and the fu, do you prefer?
* says mid 90s * * made in 91 * just wondering if anyone else caught that
I have a '92 RG570 made in late '91. Mine does not have the angles on the horn on the back of the guitar like his. Not sure if he sanded those in or what...but my guitar is NOT like his.
the length of the screw does not matter.... the head of the bolt/screw snaps not the wingdings on the bolt.. at least when you got the length of a nut... it is longer because the brass is brittal compared to steel so more windings means less stress on the brass.. the screw will not hold better or more.. that is (exept far to less windings) defined ba the diameter and the material of the screw
Hey Axe, What are those pups all about? Humbucker P-90's?? LOL>
This tremol no,it's a large clamp?
man how did you adjust the saddle's radius? please answer back
Hi Chris, where did you get those gold allen head screws for the string locks?
ibanezrules.com
Why cant I find this guitar anywhere? is this a completely custom Ibanez? was it ever in production? It looks amazing
It's an older RG570 that had the wood on the front destroyed from the knobs getting kicked in. I stripped the finish & copied the bevel dimensions from my RGD. Thanks for the compliment :-)
Axe Hacks wow man kudo's to you for the creativity. That is a guitar I would buy brand new if it were a production Ibanez. maybe I'll have to do something like this myself someday
Did you scuff the trem baseplate to get that look? It's quite nice, actually.
I did! Funny thing, I scuffed the black hardware like that years ago when I had no idea what I was doing & just wanted it to look "more metal" haha. All I did was take a wire wheel on a dremel to the black hardware!
Simple stuff like that always makes a world of difference if you don't go crazy with it so it ends up looking unnatural. I like pretty much all the mods you've done to this thing, to be honest. It's a very unique look for it.
PikkaBird Awesome man, thank you! I may make a video soon that explains all the different modifications if there is enough interest.
How many mm. have the brass block you installed?
can i put floyd on my fender american standart instead of 2 point trem without routing any cavities ?
So would you get this same effect if you block a floyd rose so it couldn't move?
I know many people use wood blocks but I was thinking of using a small piece of metal so it will be permanent.
It's an ESP LTD MH-50 so not an expensive guitar.
+AKBuilder762 I wouldn't say the effect is the same, but certainly similar!
How about the brass claws?
no locktite in the block screws ?
How long did it take them to ship the brass block to you? I heard from some customers that KGC takes 3 months and even if they don't fit there are no returns or refunds.
I would say that if there were one aspect of the company that could use improvement, it's communication. It's a very small, father/son company, which is great, but they can be tough to get ahold of. Once you are able to get them on the line, it's usually Rick & he's a great guy to work with!
SSVplus. Ask anyone who has dealt with us - we ALWAYS make sure the customer has a block that they can use in their guitar. We go the extra mile even when we need to do something a little different to a block just to make it right for that customer's particular setup. The reason we say no refunds is because we make these blocks to order for each customer - we were having a lot of people who weren't doing their research and ordering incorrect parts. We also had a lot of people who would just order and decide they didn't feel like actually trying and and had buyer's remorse without even installing and we would end up losing out. We are a small 2 man show. We spend a GREAT DEAL of time on each block and other part to make them one at a time by hand and to make sure they are polished, finished and packaged nicely. We were simply losing too much time and money on people who were not taking the time themselves to appreciate or bother about what we put into the parts. Hope that makes sense.
Our lead times depend on timing and which part is ordered. We make them as close to in the order they were received as possible, but sometimes a part can take only a couple days and other times it may take over a month. Only when we dealt with health issues here did any lead time exceed 6 weeks or so.
Either way, we are dedicated to top quality above anything. We have had some setbacks in the past due to my father's health issues which are well documented in the most recent issue of VIntage Guitar Magazine. We do our best to serve everyone we can as best we can but if I was on the phone and on the computer all day everyday - we would never be able to make any parts. Our margin is not that great given the time and cost of materials and overhead, so we need to try to be as efficient as we possibly can in handling each order.
Thanks
Rick Peek
rick@killerguitarcomponents.com
www.killerguitarcomponents.com
hey dude, which pickups do you have installed in that ibanez?
+SantoCSM DiMarzio Titans!
Where do you get the backplate?
Did that brass block just made the sound more deeper/ bass-ier? Correct me if im wrong.
It sorta extended the frequency range on both ends. Deeper lows and more sparkle in the highs.
Can i install a Floyd Rose to a Dean ML Trans Brazilia??
what is the item number of this kgc block?
i dont think you'd hear a difference, i didnt anyway what i would like to see is how much longer a note rings out for compared to stock.
whats the backround music?
Where did you get that back plate routed for the tremel no?
Went at it with a Dremel tool :-)
what is that other piece attached. not the springs but that other bar thing that is next to one of the springs and what does it do?
+James Dusek It's called a Tremol-No. It allows you to fully block your floating trem or make it a divebomb only trem. If you just leave it disengaged you can still do the pull up stuff. It's engaged with the black thumb screws.
It is a very nice system, since you don't have to drill any extra holes in your guitar. Also, when engaged it keeps your guitar in tune when a string breaks.
can u put a Floyd rose in a Ibanez sa32ex with out drilling holes
Just looked that model up, it appears to have an Ibanez tremolo bridge, though not a Floyd Rose / double locking style. Technically, it could be done, but not without a lot of extra routing & replacement of the nut. Not worth it, IMO.
wich model of fr is that?
can u tell me what size is ur brass ..?
block eight
block thickness ?
I HAVE THE IBANEZ PRESTIGE S SERIES S5570QRBB CAN U HELP ME WHAT SIZE I NEED? ALSO IF I WANT TO ADD A TREMOL NO .. LARGE CLAMP OR SMALL CLAMP..
THANKS!
I forget the actual size, but it's the smallest block KGC offers. Still required the large clamp tremol-no!
6 months to restore a guitar?
It takes cash bro!
How'd you do thay gorgeous finish? Just an oil or something?
I'm glad you asked! I sanded down through all the paint & sealer to bare basswood first. Then, I applied a "stain prep" For whatever reason, the stain prep turned the near-white basswood this awesome reddish color. I then proceeded to apply about 4-5 coats of Tru-Oil and a couple coats of gunstock wax.
Axe Hacks looks great, gonna do that on the strat i'm working on
Nice dude! KGC block or FU tone?
Why didn't he just lock the tremolo - no in fixed bridge position to take off the strings?
It's too much tension for the Tremol-no to handle.
The whole point of the system is to lock the bridge in place, so tension shouldn't be an issue.
Drop D tuning changes and bends are fine, but you have to understand that the Tremol-no is locked using small thumbscrews that barely keeps the shaft in place. It's not designed to handle hundreds of pounds of force exerted by tremolo springs, at least not without the help of a roughly equivalent amount of string tension pulling the opposite way.
Jolo Carrera Do you have evidence to back this up?
If you don't believe me, go get yourself a Tremol-no and try it out for yourself. I am saying this based on experience - I have installed a Tremol-no on a friend's guitar and tried to float the Floyd Rose bridge using only the clamps, but the grip slid almost immediately, leaving little dents on the shaft. It works when used as directed, but it's simply not capable of what you want it to do.
Guys i've been wanting to ask if its normal for a floyd rose to pop out of one of the holes that adjust the height? I usually try to fix it on my own but had no success it keeps popping out on its mainly the left side of the floyd rose.. is it fixable? Or is it just impossible to fix?
Someone please respond ASAP
Jacob Ramos Never heard of that happening. If the wood isn't cracked or damaged in any other way it should be fixable. You can buy a floyd online one piece at a time if you wish. Take the guitar to a guitar tech, as fixing such stuff isn't easy I think. You might end up having to switch the screw mounts in the wood and the wood can not be fixed if you screw it up.
Thanks i really appreciate your help.
The guitar looks beautiful except for the goofy cut pickguard lol
+GabrielTheGuitarist Goofy how? Had to cut it myself from scratch out of plexiglass with a dremel to accommodate the beveled horn, so.... all things considered I'd say it came out alright haha.
+Axe Hacks The lower horn cut just doesn't look as professionally done as the rest of the guitar or pickguard. it would make more sense to either cut it further back or to thin it to match the spacing from the edge all around. I still love what you've done with it regardless. Just a strange spot.
I hear ya, I may actually be swapping the pickups in this guitar in the near future. If that happens, I'll make a point to thin out the bottom of the lower horn a bit so the border is a bit more uniform.
Why do you have locking tuners, when you have a locking nut?
jowiszgaming PL Did you just assume my fender?
Because I got a good deal on them. I'd get standard tuners with equal height posts if I were to do it again.
Save your money and buy a guitar with a tune-o-matic bridge or string-through design. Floyd Roses need to be killed off, but too many people make money off the extra parts.
11:06 Chugga chugga...
ulan madem kullanmıyonuz neden fr gitar alıyosunuz asD:ASDAS:HS:
huge differance, if you cant hear that you have bad ears!
+pleadguitar I hear it, yet the only difference I could hear is a brighter tone on the mids. To me, it's an expensive luxury since Eric Clapton used blocks of scrap wood even Steve Vai used friggin' napkins to block the muffled tone coming from the back, and both methods work for a tight budget player who can't afford a decent brass/steel block. In all honestly, these blocks just remove the unwanted bass and feedback to your pickups like a drummer playing in a basement with acoustic/bass wall traps
Bottom line: If you're not recording a demo/hit single in your house, then it's not worth it...
+Philip Ottey I hear they make some sort of sleeve for the springs too that don't cost much to tone down ring. Kind of like those DJE-DJE-DJENT DA DJONT players use those gruv gear fret wraps. (I'm one of those assholes.)
The block isn't there to mute the springs...
MyPenguinsFly you do have less ring from the springs of you change the block though!
For the love of god, if you guys hear a difference it's probably in your head only LOL.
MOst certainly not worth the time, much less the $
batmandeltaforce sustain is another pro of getting a brass block
Sorry, but you paid more for the same thing.
Ivan Carlos Santiago you cant be serious. the brass block made his sound more open and less compressed. try using headphones instead of computer speakers.
BruceWillis I`m in a studio, with a thousand dollar headphones. To be more precise, the difference was in anyway that relevant. You can compensate adjusting in the mix or in the amp.
Ivan Carlos Santiago ok, good for you. but there is still a difference. im assuming youve never tried one, or even picked up a guitar.
BruceWillis I have 5 guitars and one with a Schaller Floyd Rose. You don`t know me at all and keep responding just because you do not agree with me. If you think that the difference is there, fine, but do not accuse me to be or not to be anything that you have no idea. I just placed my opinion on the video, not once I said anything about what you must be just for not agreeing with me.
Ivan Carlos Santiago and you keep replying to me even though i placed my opinion too.
man how did you adjust the saddle's radius? please answer back
Gotta use shims for Floyd style bridges. I may include this in a future video, as it took a good amount of research to even discover this was an option!
What type of tuner heads s on this rg?