Thank you for this video! I totally agree there's a balance to these things. I find when authors do not write from personal experience the story and characters can feel really stilted and one-dimensional. Drawing from personal experiences can be extremely powerful and can help you tell a story that matters. That being said it is also not realistic for everything to go right for a character and it's can be quite uncomfortable when the author's voice is too apparent. I do think there tends to be a lot of sexist rhetoric surrounding supposed self-insert characters by works by female authors especially.
thank you for watching! you've hit it on the nose, balance is required as with all things, haha. but I think we as readers/consumers can also be a little gentler with this sort of criticism as well!
I'm glad you mentioned Dante, that one always cracks me up because it's so viewed as the opposite of the kind self-inserts people give flack! Even goofy self-inserts can be great for learning for young or new writers or people who are in it to write a fun story for themselves. And for the latter, where there's no pressure for it to be "good" writing, that can be a healthy way for people to give themselves something to look forward to and work on. You make a good point about the interaction between self-inserting and representation, and the weight of having that rep be a "statement" regardless of how much we as writers intend it to be. I guess that's an OwnVoices issue, or could be considered one? I don't know much about the ins-and-outs of that particular movement, though. But you're so right that there's always readers out there that'll resonate with your own experiences via the characters and story-- we're all unique in our lives but never alone in our experiences, yeah? Even if that's a bit corny XD
The discussion surrounding self-inserts and representation is SUPER complex and interesting, because marginalized authors are so often pressured to represent themselves (or, more accurately, their identity and experiences) on the page in a way that IS revealing and exploitative and might be considered 'self-insert.' It's a tough box to be in, especially if one wants to branch out from that or explore different aspects of themselves that don't relate to their marginalization (something I've experienced more and more lately). But yeah - at the end of the day, I just want my work to resonate with someone. ty for watching!!
I remember you talking about this in a semi-recent video, so I'm super glad this resonated! I really love when you can tell a character/viewpoint is personal for the writer, tbh, so I'm excited for you!! tysm for supporting as always kris
Hmmm I think a self-insert character from a disabled person for example or from a neurodiverse/or neurodivergent person could be interesting since it could* give valuable insight into the life of a neurodiverse person or a look into life with disabilities.
it makes me cringe when non artists talk about "self insert" (authors drawing from their own life experience) in an deragetory way I want depth, I want introspection, I want it to feel real
Thank you for this lovely video! I was thinking about Jane Eyre and The Catcher In The Rye throughout the video, so I'm glad you mentioned them. I feel like people group together self-insert and wish fulfillment when they aren't always synonymous. I also think authors who are more visible probably get accused of self-insert characters more. I remember a couple of books by booktubers that kept getting critiqued because the main character and the author had the same personality. I always found it odd because obviously, we don't know every part of other people's personalities, but maybe these reviewers were implying that the book was uncreative or unoriginal in some way. I'm not really sure, but I haven't thought about this concept much.
exactly, wish fulfillment ≠ self inserts!! agreed, I've also seen that sort of criticism leveled at booktubers/influencers, especially those who share some facet of their daily lives or personal interests with the public. it's really interesting which writers get criticized for this vs. which ones 'get away with it'
Gotta say, after years of watching writing advice videos on YT I don't think I've seen anyone tackle this topic like you have. We appreciate you doing this! I see this topic in a similar way to "show, don't tell." They're not bad in moderation. Aspects of our lives will bleed into our writing at some point. I looked back at on old short story and cringe hard at how self-inserty it was. Same hair color, same favorite food, favorite music, blah blah. I definitely learned from that. Power fantasies and wish fulfilment I think are big faux pas's when done wrong. There's a YT channel called Shadiversity that covers sci fi and fantasy world building. Well the dude wrote a book and it wasn't just badly written but it was a misogynistic wish fulfilment power fantasy about a genius engineer, magician, sword fighter, leader, politician, and everything under the sun. It's hilariously bad.
I dont do proper self insets, but i like characters that are flawed and have a lot of me in. I use it to process myself. Btw my favourite self insert is paul sheldon grom stephen kings misery
I completely agree that inserting some of yourself into a character is a very good thing. I also wrote a lot of blatant wish fulfillment as a kid, then moved on to try to write characters that were not like me at all, but eventually landed in that at least the characters that are big enough to have a character arc, need to have something in them that I personally resonate with. Which is usually an aspect of my own personality or experience, though not always. And I really like how you expressed your thoughts on writing the marginalized part of yourself, or however one should put that. That was a struggle for a long time for me, and for the longest time I thought I would never write a transgender character, because I've just seen from inside the community how harmful that can be when done "wrong". I've moved on from that insecurity now and instead really enjoy writing characters that explore some aspect of my own experience of gender identity, because ... well, there are so many ways to do it right, and I wanna help put some of those out there :)
I wonder if self-insert might not also be a way for the writer to confront his own shortcomings; character's strengths and weaknesses are much more visible than people in real life, so listing self-insert character with strengths and weaknesses would give you an insight into your own flaws.
You make an interesting point of self-insert characters being "glorified" and, from my view, "readers or characters in the book are forced to loved them". If I wrote a character like that, I'd find it boring. But you make an interesting point about "making the character suffer and grow". That's what I like to do with my character as well.
I *think* my MC through the first 2 books of the series I'm working on is technically a self insert?¿ I'm not sure bc she's not me *now,* she's basically a of version of 10-12 yr old me, and I'm older now, so other than her looking like I used to it's like writing an entirely different person at this point. Writing her through the years has helped me process trauma that I went through and see flaws in myself that I didn't see before which has helped me change in some ways I believe. I've worked on the series for around 5 years so I've got a lot of rewriting to go back and do, but I started feeling insecure and unmotivated about my series when I saw all of the hate self inserts get to be honest. This is a great video and very informative, definitely earned a new sub :))
Can self-inserts still be good as an antagonist in the story? I've sort of made self-inserts to criticize myself in hopes to be better in similar situations
i have problem sometimes while writing. it that im writing or thinking about a character that suppose to be a the main character. but she got similarity to me. i even think it self insert, but it sometimes not 100 percent. i gotten inspiration from my middle school friend and actually have some of the stuff close to her. and i token inspiration from other media and from movie. i dont really see the character completely me. but they kinda like a reflexion, but in different situation, desire, and how they manage stuff. but i think some self inserting inst bad. alot of story took refrence from old memories and people and them self. the best examples is berserk. without some of self insert and he best friend. the story wouldn't be the same. he even said, if you can't write you own story, then you can't be a mangaka.
this video and another show that self insert is not bad, only bad writters, because when u make sure of just have parts of yourself in your characters, flaws, growth, and even reletable than u can make a good job, but if u are narcistic, egotistical and some other stuff. u will only make a bad product. honestly that's the basis I do for mine, see what can make them look imperfect, they need growth or even cracks in their lifes. like their goal has to be earn
Hi! I have a question. I get that writing a glorified version of yourself is cringeworthy. I'm currently working on a romance/drama novel, which is based on my own experiences. The MC(me) is definitely not glorified (makes me look pretty bad tbh), and I've changed the names of every character in the story from the real people involved. I'm going to have a pen-name. The events in the book wouldnt make sense if the MC didn't have any of my characteristics, because part of what happened is due to my own personality. Would this still be a bad case of self insert? How would I go about this. I'm a bit nervous writing it.
BIG Obvious Self Insert Dorothy L Sayers as 'Harriet Vane' in the last few Lord Peter Wimsey novels. She MARRIES her hero. Sayers openly admitted that LPW was originally written as a 'wish fulfilment' character that had everything she didn't when she began writing him. She wrote her Ideal Man and then wrote herself marrying him. Smaller Self Insert Patrick O Brien as an author briefly met and drawn into conversation with a main character during a coastal walk. He used this to comment to his readers on being a writer achieving sudden success later in life.
Thank you for this video! I totally agree there's a balance to these things. I find when authors do not write from personal experience the story and characters can feel really stilted and one-dimensional. Drawing from personal experiences can be extremely powerful and can help you tell a story that matters. That being said it is also not realistic for everything to go right for a character and it's can be quite uncomfortable when the author's voice is too apparent. I do think there tends to be a lot of sexist rhetoric surrounding supposed self-insert characters by works by female authors especially.
thank you for watching! you've hit it on the nose, balance is required as with all things, haha. but I think we as readers/consumers can also be a little gentler with this sort of criticism as well!
I'm glad you mentioned Dante, that one always cracks me up because it's so viewed as the opposite of the kind self-inserts people give flack! Even goofy self-inserts can be great for learning for young or new writers or people who are in it to write a fun story for themselves. And for the latter, where there's no pressure for it to be "good" writing, that can be a healthy way for people to give themselves something to look forward to and work on.
You make a good point about the interaction between self-inserting and representation, and the weight of having that rep be a "statement" regardless of how much we as writers intend it to be. I guess that's an OwnVoices issue, or could be considered one? I don't know much about the ins-and-outs of that particular movement, though. But you're so right that there's always readers out there that'll resonate with your own experiences via the characters and story-- we're all unique in our lives but never alone in our experiences, yeah? Even if that's a bit corny XD
The discussion surrounding self-inserts and representation is SUPER complex and interesting, because marginalized authors are so often pressured to represent themselves (or, more accurately, their identity and experiences) on the page in a way that IS revealing and exploitative and might be considered 'self-insert.' It's a tough box to be in, especially if one wants to branch out from that or explore different aspects of themselves that don't relate to their marginalization (something I've experienced more and more lately). But yeah - at the end of the day, I just want my work to resonate with someone. ty for watching!!
as someone who feels like all my best characters have been self insert in some way….. i love this discussion
I remember you talking about this in a semi-recent video, so I'm super glad this resonated! I really love when you can tell a character/viewpoint is personal for the writer, tbh, so I'm excited for you!! tysm for supporting as always kris
Hmmm I think a self-insert character from a disabled person for example or from a neurodiverse/or neurodivergent person could be interesting since it could* give valuable insight into the life of a neurodiverse person or a look into life with disabilities.
it makes me cringe when non artists talk about "self insert" (authors drawing from their own life experience) in an deragetory way
I want depth, I want introspection, I want it to feel real
On another note, do you think you could talk about writing female characters from a male POV? Like what's constantly done wrong and how to improve.
this is a really wonderful idea! I'll start doing some research and try to put something together :)
@@lynndjung awesome! Looking forward to it 😁
Thank you for this lovely video! I was thinking about Jane Eyre and The Catcher In The Rye throughout the video, so I'm glad you mentioned them. I feel like people group together self-insert and wish fulfillment when they aren't always synonymous. I also think authors who are more visible probably get accused of self-insert characters more. I remember a couple of books by booktubers that kept getting critiqued because the main character and the author had the same personality. I always found it odd because obviously, we don't know every part of other people's personalities, but maybe these reviewers were implying that the book was uncreative or unoriginal in some way. I'm not really sure, but I haven't thought about this concept much.
exactly, wish fulfillment ≠ self inserts!! agreed, I've also seen that sort of criticism leveled at booktubers/influencers, especially those who share some facet of their daily lives or personal interests with the public. it's really interesting which writers get criticized for this vs. which ones 'get away with it'
Gotta say, after years of watching writing advice videos on YT I don't think I've seen anyone tackle this topic like you have. We appreciate you doing this!
I see this topic in a similar way to "show, don't tell." They're not bad in moderation. Aspects of our lives will bleed into our writing at some point. I looked back at on old short story and cringe hard at how self-inserty it was. Same hair color, same favorite food, favorite music, blah blah. I definitely learned from that.
Power fantasies and wish fulfilment I think are big faux pas's when done wrong. There's a YT channel called Shadiversity that covers sci fi and fantasy world building. Well the dude wrote a book and it wasn't just badly written but it was a misogynistic wish fulfilment power fantasy about a genius engineer, magician, sword fighter, leader, politician, and everything under the sun. It's hilariously bad.
I'd like to see a self-insert template. It's very hard to actually do this.
I dont do proper self insets, but i like characters that are flawed and have a lot of me in. I use it to process myself. Btw my favourite self insert is paul sheldon grom stephen kings misery
I completely agree that inserting some of yourself into a character is a very good thing. I also wrote a lot of blatant wish fulfillment as a kid, then moved on to try to write characters that were not like me at all, but eventually landed in that at least the characters that are big enough to have a character arc, need to have something in them that I personally resonate with. Which is usually an aspect of my own personality or experience, though not always.
And I really like how you expressed your thoughts on writing the marginalized part of yourself, or however one should put that. That was a struggle for a long time for me, and for the longest time I thought I would never write a transgender character, because I've just seen from inside the community how harmful that can be when done "wrong". I've moved on from that insecurity now and instead really enjoy writing characters that explore some aspect of my own experience of gender identity, because ... well, there are so many ways to do it right, and I wanna help put some of those out there :)
I wonder if self-insert might not also be a way for the writer to confront his own shortcomings; character's strengths and weaknesses are much more visible than people in real life, so listing self-insert character with strengths and weaknesses would give you an insight into your own flaws.
You make an interesting point of self-insert characters being "glorified" and, from my view, "readers or characters in the book are forced to loved them". If I wrote a character like that, I'd find it boring. But you make an interesting point about "making the character suffer and grow". That's what I like to do with my character as well.
Spiderman was originally a self insert of Steve Ditko
great example, I forgot about that one!
I *think* my MC through the first 2 books of the series I'm working on is technically a self insert?¿ I'm not sure bc she's not me *now,* she's basically a of version of 10-12 yr old me, and I'm older now, so other than her looking like I used to it's like writing an entirely different person at this point. Writing her through the years has helped me process trauma that I went through and see flaws in myself that I didn't see before which has helped me change in some ways I believe. I've worked on the series for around 5 years so I've got a lot of rewriting to go back and do, but I started feeling insecure and unmotivated about my series when I saw all of the hate self inserts get to be honest.
This is a great video and very informative, definitely earned a new sub :))
Can self-inserts still be good as an antagonist in the story? I've sort of made self-inserts to criticize myself in hopes to be better in similar situations
Yes, absolutely! I've done the same thing in the past. I think the only thing to be a bit careful of is being /too/ hard on yourself :')
But, but what about mandy . From im not starfire.
We do not mention that. Ever.
But I will answer your question because I am a nice guy. No. She is not a good self insert by any means.
i have problem sometimes while writing.
it that im writing or thinking about a character that suppose to be a the main character. but she got similarity to me. i even think it self insert, but it sometimes not 100 percent. i gotten inspiration from my middle school friend and actually have some of the stuff close to her.
and i token inspiration from other media and from movie.
i dont really see the character completely me. but they kinda like a reflexion, but in different situation, desire, and how they manage stuff.
but i think some self inserting inst bad. alot of story took refrence from old memories and people and them self.
the best examples is berserk. without some of self insert and he best friend. the story wouldn't be the same. he even said, if you can't write you own story, then you can't be a mangaka.
Brilliant analysis. Very worthwhile.
thank you, that's very kind!
this video and another show that self insert is not bad, only bad writters, because when u make sure of just have parts of yourself in your characters, flaws, growth, and even reletable than u can make a good job, but if u are narcistic, egotistical and some other stuff. u will only make a bad product. honestly that's the basis I do for mine, see what can make them look imperfect, they need growth or even cracks in their lifes. like their goal has to be earn
Hi! I have a question. I get that writing a glorified version of yourself is cringeworthy. I'm currently working on a romance/drama novel, which is based on my own experiences. The MC(me) is definitely not glorified (makes me look pretty bad tbh), and I've changed the names of every character in the story from the real people involved. I'm going to have a pen-name. The events in the book wouldnt make sense if the MC didn't have any of my characteristics, because part of what happened is due to my own personality. Would this still be a bad case of self insert? How would I go about this. I'm a bit nervous writing it.
BIG Obvious Self Insert
Dorothy L Sayers as 'Harriet Vane' in the last few Lord Peter Wimsey novels. She MARRIES her hero. Sayers openly admitted that LPW was originally written as a 'wish fulfilment' character that had everything she didn't when she began writing him. She wrote her Ideal Man and then wrote herself marrying him.
Smaller Self Insert
Patrick O Brien as an author briefly met and drawn into conversation with a main character during a coastal walk. He used this to comment to his readers on being a writer achieving sudden success later in life.
1st!
"Because, I mean, Lord forbid that women do anything ever." 📠💀