As an owner and hobbyist this is super helpful as a starting point for dealing with this. Most of the information I've seen on aggression is carefully crafted to not tell the whole picture so you'll buy the product or hire the trainer. I really appreciate you sharing this information with us.
EXACTLY. I soo want to learn to do things for myself (and don't like asking for help 😆). Not many trainer's will explain it, or get angry when you ask to see what they see.
Thank you Pat for making this video. I especially appreciate your clarification of punishing aggression vs negative reinforcement into an alternate behavior. Hopefully I’m understanding you right. Also the tips on how to get yourself out of trouble if you take the dog over threshold. Big thank you.
Great video! I was lucky enough to learn this approach from Pat last year so have had time to put it to the test. It has been crucial in helping my dog understand that he doesn't need to react. Walking him in public places is enjoyable for us both now.
This was a great conceptual description. I got a two year old Blue Heeler with fear aggression issues from a rescue while living in a mid rise apartment building. Fun right? I got lots of terrible advice before I got it sorted. Your two points concisely describe a couple of the main tasks I had to accomplish. Jerry Bradshaw’s description of prey versus defensive aggression were key. Ivan’s videos on creating engagement through play were golden. We played, did drive channeling when he got defensive, desensitized, and didn’t let him win with aggression. 10 months later I have a solid off leash Heeler that looks pretty damned happy most of the time. Anyhow. I’ve been enjoying the podcast. And I should mention Ian Dunbar and Jay Jack, cause who can’t use more good references?
Great reminder! This is what I’ve been working on with my German shepherd and she’s massively improved :) Through the slow distance increments she’s been introduced to a few stable dogs on leash to show her that there are good dogs out there that won’t attack. She now even ignores reactive on leash dogs as she knows they won’t get to her. Love the training tips!
Your videos/podcasts are always so well-thought out and explain concepts I've had trouble putting words to. I'm excited to use your puppy raising guide for my next pup.
Thank you, this makes sense of my neighbor dog charging me only when I have my red dog with me. Someone said the neighbors dog is feeding off of mine; I couldn't make sense of what they meant.
I'm old, and approach reactivity a bit different. But not a lot. For years about all I did was, pet dog, bite cases. Now that I have "retired" I still get 4 or 5 calls a month to work a dog that has been to several trainers, and is going to be put into rescue or put down. I introduce a prong exactly like you described. Once that is done we get to work. Recognizing intent is very important, but once I see intent I am going to correct it. If I can stop the dog when he's thinking about blowing up, then I don't have to deal with the blowing up, most times. What you ( the dog) have been doing simply is NOT going to work today. I don't use food, or even verbalize to the dog. All of this is done in silence. All my communication is through the lead. The "reward" is the release of pressure. Once I have a thinking dog, even if the dog is now avoiding what triggered him, now I can get to work. I may calmly praise, or pet, ( you can't always touch them right away) I may even get out some food if the dog will take it. Now the dog is learning what I want him to do. But first I stop what I don't want. Timing and staying calm, no matter what, is very important. Most times I have a dog reactive dog walking with a calm dog in the first hour. Most are playing with my dog in three to four lessons, and once the e-collar has been introduced. Yesterday I worked an 8 month old, 80 pound, pup that " Can't be touched by men and doesn't like other dogs" He's the first dog I've worked in ages that even while he was thinking about eating you would take treats. I did use some food with him just because he had such a food drive. It was a bit over an hour but two men touched and petted him and he was calmly laying next to an old neutral dog, before he left. He's coming here for three weeks, then we'll find him a new home. Where he's at isn't going to work.
The observation/warning on the counterproductive reinforcement risks of using a static helper dog is brilliant! Unfortunately, there are innumerable channels out there that fails to make this distinction and thus neutralize much of the good gained by the correct pictures/events.
What do you think about punishing the aggression (along with all those other things) so that the dog can be near the trigger for desensitation? Even as a last step? I noticed you said we should never punish the aggression (or the behaviours that are the result of which). But if you can stop the reactivity so the dog can take a breath and realise it's safe, couldn't that be helpful? You can probably tell I know a dog who had this done to him and it worked perfectly. He was afraid of other dogs and couldn't get close enough to interact and realise they were okay. We did DRO and basic counter conditioning from a distance but the moment we crossed a certain threshold that was it for him. So we punished the behaviours (which is not as harsh as it sounds. It was a slip lead and a light pop) and it was like a weight was lifted from his shoulders. After a few minutes hanging out he shook himself off and began to play. What do you think?
You don't need a prong collar to do this, you just need patience and the proper skills/time to invest in your dog that you decided to take on. To say that the prong collar "doesn't hurt but is an annoyance" is sort of ignorant. How do you know that? Are you a dog? Have you read all the peer-reviewed scientific studies that say the opposite? Maybe the problem is the handler. I rescued a fear-aggressive dog and have been making huge strides in the first 3 weeks by using a harness. It isn't necessarily the equipment or "tools" as you say that is making it effective, the handler has to know WHEN and HOW to counter condition, using positive reinforcement, and having a lot of patience/support networks. I think it is irresponsible to say "tool" instead of "prong collar" as you are intentionally diminishing the risks associated with using a prong collar, particularly with handlers who have no clue what they are doing - which is like half of all owners.
As an owner and hobbyist this is super helpful as a starting point for dealing with this. Most of the information I've seen on aggression is carefully crafted to not tell the whole picture so you'll buy the product or hire the trainer. I really appreciate you sharing this information with us.
EXACTLY. I soo want to learn to do things for myself (and don't like asking for help 😆). Not many trainer's will explain it, or get angry when you ask to see what they see.
Thank you Pat for making this video. I especially appreciate your clarification of punishing aggression vs negative reinforcement into an alternate behavior. Hopefully I’m understanding you right. Also the tips on how to get yourself out of trouble if you take the dog over threshold. Big thank you.
Great video! I was lucky enough to learn this approach from Pat last year so have had time to put it to the test. It has been crucial in helping my dog understand that he doesn't need to react. Walking him in public places is enjoyable for us both now.
This was a great conceptual description. I got a two year old Blue Heeler with fear aggression issues from a rescue while living in a mid rise apartment building. Fun right? I got lots of terrible advice before I got it sorted. Your two points concisely describe a couple of the main tasks I had to accomplish. Jerry Bradshaw’s description of prey versus defensive aggression were key. Ivan’s videos on creating engagement through play were golden. We played, did drive channeling when he got defensive, desensitized, and didn’t let him win with aggression. 10 months later I have a solid off leash Heeler that looks pretty damned happy most of the time. Anyhow. I’ve been enjoying the podcast. And I should mention Ian Dunbar and Jay Jack, cause who can’t use more good references?
Congrats!! I love Ivan's stuff for fear aggression.
Great reminder! This is what I’ve been working on with my German shepherd and she’s massively improved :) Through the slow distance increments she’s been introduced to a few stable dogs on leash to show her that there are good dogs out there that won’t attack. She now even ignores reactive on leash dogs as she knows they won’t get to her. Love the training tips!
Keep it up Pat, these videos are class!
Your videos/podcasts are always so well-thought out and explain concepts I've had trouble putting words to. I'm excited to use your puppy raising guide for my next pup.
Thanks!
Thank you so much, this really clarified things for me and helped me work on some more nuanced changes in my training! Appreciate you so much
Oh thank god you made this video. I've been struggling with this for a while. Thank you 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Very concise and great delivery. Thanks for that!
Thanks man. Usually the people who don't want to hear won't listen.
Thanks Pat
Thank you, this makes sense of my neighbor dog charging me only when I have my red dog with me. Someone said the neighbors dog is feeding off of mine; I couldn't make sense of what they meant.
I'm old, and approach reactivity a bit different. But not a lot. For years about all I did was, pet dog, bite cases. Now that I have "retired" I still get 4 or 5 calls a month to work a dog that has been to several trainers, and is going to be put into rescue or put down.
I introduce a prong exactly like you described. Once that is done we get to work. Recognizing intent is very important, but once I see intent I am going to correct it. If I can stop the dog when he's thinking about blowing up, then I don't have to deal with the blowing up, most times. What you ( the dog) have been doing simply is NOT going to work today. I don't use food, or even verbalize to the dog. All of this is done in silence. All my communication is through the lead. The "reward" is the release of pressure.
Once I have a thinking dog, even if the dog is now avoiding what triggered him, now I can get to work. I may calmly praise, or pet, ( you can't always touch them right away) I may even get out some food if the dog will take it. Now the dog is learning what I want him to do. But first I stop what I don't want.
Timing and staying calm, no matter what, is very important. Most times I have a dog reactive dog walking with a calm dog in the first hour. Most are playing with my dog in three to four lessons, and once the e-collar has been introduced.
Yesterday I worked an 8 month old, 80 pound, pup that " Can't be touched by men and doesn't like other dogs" He's the first dog I've worked in ages that even while he was thinking about eating you would take treats. I did use some food with him just because he had such a food drive. It was a bit over an hour but two men touched and petted him and he was calmly laying next to an old neutral dog, before he left.
He's coming here for three weeks, then we'll find him a new home. Where he's at isn't going to work.
That’s a great way to use the mill! 🤔
Excellent video!
Thanks!
The observation/warning on the counterproductive reinforcement risks of using a static helper dog is brilliant! Unfortunately, there are innumerable channels out there that fails to make this distinction and thus neutralize much of the good gained by the correct pictures/events.
Great video, love the detail!
You’re a genius!!!
Well done!
This was SO GOOD.
This is extremely helpful. What if the trigger is any other dog he sees when walking?
Would love to see real case videos where that is applied.
What do you think about punishing the aggression (along with all those other things) so that the dog can be near the trigger for desensitation? Even as a last step?
I noticed you said we should never punish the aggression (or the behaviours that are the result of which). But if you can stop the reactivity so the dog can take a breath and realise it's safe, couldn't that be helpful?
You can probably tell I know a dog who had this done to him and it worked perfectly. He was afraid of other dogs and couldn't get close enough to interact and realise they were okay. We did DRO and basic counter conditioning from a distance but the moment we crossed a certain threshold that was it for him. So we punished the behaviours (which is not as harsh as it sounds. It was a slip lead and a light pop) and it was like a weight was lifted from his shoulders. After a few minutes hanging out he shook himself off and began to play.
What do you think?
Thank you so much for doing these videos! Can you recommend any balanced trainers around Brisbane for general obedience training?
You’re best bet is to join The canine paradigm discussion group on Facebook and ask in there.
@@PatStuart legend! Thanks again
Hey Pat! What do you think of an collar in the same exercise?
It can work. But there’s a few more risks that need to be taken into consideration. The loading phase of an ecollar would look pretty different.
You don't need a prong collar to do this, you just need patience and the proper skills/time to invest in your dog that you decided to take on. To say that the prong collar "doesn't hurt but is an annoyance" is sort of ignorant. How do you know that? Are you a dog? Have you read all the peer-reviewed scientific studies that say the opposite? Maybe the problem is the handler. I rescued a fear-aggressive dog and have been making huge strides in the first 3 weeks by using a harness. It isn't necessarily the equipment or "tools" as you say that is making it effective, the handler has to know WHEN and HOW to counter condition, using positive reinforcement, and having a lot of patience/support networks. I think it is irresponsible to say "tool" instead of "prong collar" as you are intentionally diminishing the risks associated with using a prong collar, particularly with handlers who have no clue what they are doing - which is like half of all owners.
LOVE THIS!