I have a Cobalt 8 XL and an Argon module midi together. No tablet, just old school knob turning 🤓 and absolutely love them! Together, they are a powerful and unique combination!
Hi Anthony, Please pardon the delayed response. Each synth has 8 voices. When they are connected via midi one keyboard plays both synths. I play the Cobalt 8X (has keys) and midi to Argon 8 module (no keys). Therefore, 8 voices from Cobalt 1/4” L-R audio out and 8 voices from Argon 1/4” L-R audio outs. 4 audio channels with 16 voices. Does this answer your question? Let me know if you have any further questions or desire additional information about this set up.
I just recently purchased a Cobalt 8 from Modal and I love it! It's really disheartening to hear this news and the specifics especially given the fact that I wanted to continue to buy Modal products. I hope a deep pocketed company can see the value, like you said, and have these synths and their developers live on under better terms and wiser management. It's clear Modal knows how to make an awesome product that resonates within the synth enthusiast community, unfortunately its even clearer that Modal leadership wasn't guiding the company towards any meaningful long term success.
This is tragic news. I crowdfunded 2 modal synths craft and skulpt. These were fabulous synths with the modal app you mentioned opening up so many deep features. The obvious inability to make money would suggest bad financial management since multiple successful crowdfunding projects show a market is eager to back this fabulous company. Thank you for such an insightful video.
That’s why crowd funding can be really bad when the people behind the project either can’t do management very well or simply just use the platform for gaining free funding for Wild projects that will never end in something that can make a revenue. There is sadly also brilliant things made this way that just really arent gonna make any real income unless you have a large Corporation that can afford having showstopper models that they use as image for innovation while having normal stuff for regular custommers that keeps the Company afloat and actually producing revenue for the investors. Its just a fact that it is really hard as a little indie Company with few but great products at a high cost can’t tolerate to make one bad decission. Where a major brand can easy deduct some projects once in a while that for some reason isn’t succes’s . But in a world where the revenue per item gets smaller every year, even major brands can have major losses in R&D if a project isn’t a succes. That is why we see Companies keep milking the same dead cow for decades just putting out a “+” version every now and then that have a red button instead of a blue one and a minor update. Reason why those showstopper Workstations isn’t getting very much love these days. It simply cost too much to develope and can’t keep up with the advancement in software products.
To be honest an established company who uses a crowdfunding platform to fund development costs is already a red flag and an evidence that appropriate management wasn't in place, they simply bit on more than they can chew.
I have a Cobalt 8 and I love it. It was really great value for the money too. But being somewhat in the finance world, I can tell you crowdfunding is considered a major risk signal. It means the business is too shakey to get money from legit investors.
@@vincezab1 Exactly seen from a financial and risk vs actual seeing a finnished product crowdfunding IS risky snd you never know how long these companies are gonna being around. Not saying all crowdfunded things is bad or scams but there is so many of those projects that never manages to deliver what they promised or just blatantly is made for scamming people.
I think the closest I've ever gotten to a Modal synth was a Cobalt 8 I briefly touched at Guitar Center a long while back. It's really sad to hear about a small boutique synth company that is known for making good products go down in flames. First Moog, now this. Thanks for sharing.
Yes, I too have first hand reports of what you said from a previous Modal employee. I thought about you, Scott, being a fan of Modal products and wondered how long it would be before you or someone else started reporting this on RUclips. It has progressed far enough (as you found) that it isn't a secret anymore. Very sad.
Sad to see, but not much of a surprise. I'd noticed some folks (about 7-8 months ago) who worked for Modal who had stated that they had left due to cash flow issues in Modal impacting on their ability to pay them. Also sad for the workers owed money and for the suppliers as well.
That sucks man. Sorry to hear this. I guess it's a tough business. :( We need these companies to succeed though. More independents the better. More product varieties, more r&d etc. Maybe they should have reached out to the community for a bailout?
Personally, I think it's great you're sharing this information and knowledge Scott. Knowledge is power and for anyone contemplating the purchase of a Modal product, at least they now know the risk involved regarding important areas such as warranty and product development and updates.
- From that viewpoint, it could be a reason not to buy one. On the other hand, I was thinking people should quickly buy one before it becomes a vintage rare synth that you can only still get at over-inflated prices. 😀 - When I bought my Korg Prologue, it was marketed as their flagship synth, but that whole project seems to have gone pretty dead too at the time I bought it. It's also a bit of a rarity synth. I think you can only still buy what's in stocks.
I purchased my Cobalt 8 around a month ago and after visiting their site it showed me a lot about the future support of their products...their support page to this day will not load without kicking back a security error. If this was a legitimate concern they would have remedied the issue by now but here we are. I still love my Cobalt 8 regardless. Thank god this all happened after the V2 update otherwise it would be a far different story. @@valleyken
When you write "I think it's great", you don't need to say "Personally" before it. Anybody with half a brain knows you are referring to yourself. It's like saying, "Personally, speaking for myself, in my opinion, I think it's great"...ridiculous.
I got a 002 half a year ago, and it's kind of a new one. Luckily the selling company also has another one for spare parts. I absolutely love it. I'm kind of spoiled when it comes to synths (A6, Kijimi, MKS80rev5, MKS70 Vecoven, P12, MS20m etc) and the 002 looks gorgeous and sounds fucking marvelous. Fantastic job @PaulasTechStuff !! 🤩🤩
I first heard this piece of sad news here about Modal Electronics. I am a relatively new customer with a COBALT5S I bought back in March 2023. With the possibility of this company going completely out of business, it would be prudent for owners of their great products to download/make a backup copy of their App & VST while they still can because they might be withdrawn! I do hope somebody buys this company soon enough!
One minor correction. I'm an accountant (in the US, this could be a difference with international accounting convention) and when I hear you say "in the red" I think of that as a sales loss for the year, not an indication of assets on hand as you mention the phrase - in fact "black friday" in the US is called such because a lot of companies are "in the red" until the holiday sales start and it's not entirely unusual. Other than that your knowledge of business/balance sheets seems pretty sound. You involved in business somewhere? I was guessing before, but seeing these numbers now I can say with greater certainty it looks like the company spent big to bring some great products to market and the rising interest rates made the debt they racked up impossible for them to service. The products they make are great, but there's no world where sales are going to jump enough for them to cover the rapidly rising costs of debt, and I'm not sure how attractive taking on all that debt will be to any potential purchaser. I cannot tell if the products are selling profitably or not without a COGS metric, it could be that all these losses are down to finance/overhead costs (which it sounds like anecdotally from another source of mine).
I think you're correct regarding how they ended up in this situation - lots of outlay in R&D in hopes that future sales would pay down those costs, and betting that the future cost of servicing that debt would remain constant. I am not involved in business, but I can do research, which I did for this video. I'm definitely no accountant, so that's why I did ask at the end for any suggestions/corrections, for which I appreciate your comments!
Sad. Here's to hoping Focusrite picks them up. If they're too much in the hole and Modal 2 flahship can't be recovered, it may be too much for a third party to step in. One of my favorite synths is the Sequential Pro 3 SE I have, and been happy how Focusrite is running things after picking up an ownership stake after Dave Smith passed away.
Yeah Focusrite/Novation might have been a possible new home. But if Modal has a lot of debt it may be simpler and cheaper to poach their engineers to develop new DSP products, like a next generation Circuit with a significant hardware upgrade.
Sad news ! This brand offers accessible and very interesting synthesizers. The DACs are average (a little low output level) but the rest is really well built with quality elements (they are not like most manufacturers who make small savings by integrating low-end keyboards). And indeed they show a good example to Roland by offering complete and functional software I'm probably going to buy a Cobalt Desktop before they disappear from stores :).
Look at the economy, inflation, and lowering of the standard of living in America and the UK...I fesr this is only the beginning of synth companies going under.
Make that many companies (not just synths) and I’ll agree with you! The s**t has only just started being returned by the fan given levels of debt in regards to level of disposable income!
My 002 was never finished. Really cool synth. Well built. Paula left Modal. The debt is tough for sure. Hope they keep working on things but sad they can't service the old synths. Maybe release the code and designs to public domain?
Scott: Fascinating look at the business side of the music biz! Very sad that it's come to the dissolution of an amazing-sounding instrument company. Yes, I'd like to hear more about the financial side. Thank you for presenting this in a balanced and neutral report.
I bought Cobalt8X thanks to your review, and I still absolutely love it 1.5 years later! Not only it sounds great, but the keybed is just next level, it became my main midi controller. I really hope someone buys Modal out and continues working on their products.
I suspect that sales are down big time across the board for so called luxury items. Many people are so hard pressed these days that they're not buying. If like it seems was the case with Modal that they were trying to sell volume product to service debt, the cost of living crisis came just at the wrong time for them. Many small & medium Enterprises are struggling here in the U.K.
The UK has suffered quite a bit in recent years, and some people (all over the world)are also selling their gear after the pandemic. Have seen vintage gear prices drop, and a lot of more recent gear selling online. Current manufacturers are probably feeling the squeeze due to still higher than historic manufacturing, parts scarcity, and shipping costs. That’s my not very expert assessment.
The company has been loss making for years, so that's not only the result of a recent issue. They took on a lot of debt and it's catching up with them now.
Nice video. Things have moved on a bit from this thankfully. I supported the company from the very beginning and sad to see how they have gone. I have a 002 and 008 in my studio area, both with FX cards. These are classics for sure, but even these were not really supported and the updates stopped. Mark.
This is such sad news. When I got my Cobalt the price, sound and keybed made it a no-brainer to get instead of an expensive controller. Here’s hoping they survive.
I had a feeling this would happen at some point, I use to own a Modal 008 which at the time was their flagship 8 voice VCO based poly synth with multi-mode filters similar to the Oberheim Matrix 12, and while it was a great machine at first it was soo buggy from a user perspective to a point sometimes un-usable and this was a few years in even after a few updates, that stopped and I kept on thinking my 3k synth might end up being a expensive bit of studio decoration, being from the UK i was exciting about supporting a UK company but the lack of customer support at the time and non-response really had me concerned so I parted ways with it, I do agree that Focusrite should maybe rescue Modal as I still think they make fantastic quality kit, for now I’m happy and ill stick with my Novation Summit.
Very sad to hear. I had the chance to work wih Christian on some Modal synths and it was a very nice experience, with him and with the synthesizers. Keep my fingers crossed..
I think someone will surely take advantage of their IP and keep making the products. It’s so strange ti hear a story like this. It doesn’t seem possible they could have ever made it in to the black.
Companies house is just showing the balance sheet from one year to the next, not the trading profit. Profits ( and losses ) from one year to the next are added ( or subtracted ) from the P&L line on the balance sheet, so the actual profit ( or loss ) for the year is the difference in the P&L line from one year to the next. So they lost about £600k in the last year, not £2m ( which is the cumulative sum of the losses over the whole trading history )
I've got the Cobalt 8. Oh, man. This really is bad news, cause it's a really cool synth. Crossing my fingers so that the product line can continue... somehow.
I agree: the ModalApp makes their Argon 8 & Carbon 8 very compelling modern instruments. However, if I were a young musician just starting out, the ASM Hydrasynth would have a higher priority on my buy list. While I am hopeful that the Carbon 8 will eventually be released, I’m not going to hold my breath. Have you actually played the 002? It sounds good, but the interface is buggy as all hell. Dumping a ton of money into a product that will never get off the ground is how other synth manufacturers failed (ARP Axxe, Ensoniq Paris).
Novation should buy the name and the splendid developer team! Modal products could fit perfectly in the Novation line. They have Sequential/Oberheim on the high end now, and could add Modal engines to advanced groove boxes and a new Peak/Summit series.
I guess it's fitting in a way as my Cobalt 5s is what I've been the most with my E-Mu Proteus 2000 ROMs in my PK6 - E-Mu went down the drain many years ago but, knock on wood, the gear has been 100% reliable for 20 years now.
Moog got bought up by scum, a far cry from Focusrite buying Sequential. High chance that Moog may later be reduced to a brand of budget MIDI controllers. The brand is very screwed.
I just got my Cobalt 5S three weeks ago! I was hoping for at least a firmware update for Reverb. Oh well, let's hope Modal doesn't get bought out by InMusic like Moog!
I’ve had my 008 in for repair for three years, with Modal going completely quiet once I even mentioned Paula (no response for a year). Paula is amazing, and offered to try to procure/create a replacement CPU board for my 008, doing more in 24 hours than Modal ever did. It’s sad to see them go downhill so far.
@@JayKaufman it's a shame, and I'm sorry to hear that. I have repaired a few 002s and 008s, people can reach out to me and I will do what I can to help
That is so sad. What I would want to know is, what started this in the first place? Why did their products not sell, especially considering how well regarded they were?
What a shame. I wish them to continue to exist in some form, though I think they fundamentally do not compete well with the other market offerings, if they did they would move many more units. If they merged the argon and cobalt into the same physical product it would be far more appealing. I went for a Hydrasynth as it just seems better to me after considering both. The value proposition could swing it I think. They also released alot of products in a short time window over the last few years too, that would bot have been cheap. Focusrite acquiring them would be interesting, I widh they acquired Moog instead too as they have a better stance on supporting their brands than InMusic.
Fantastic insider information. I spent a lot of hours for the better part of a year knowing I should like my Cobalt 8, but it just never drew me in for "hours of lost time" they way some other synths do. I finally sold it last week. Other than labels the UI on both synths is identical. Perhaps they felt some sort of "combined" labeling and the ability to load either engine per patch would have hurt sales? IMHO that would have made a compelling instrument compared to alternatives. A bi-timbral in the 5 octave package with 2 engines onboard and the ability to have Argon+Cobalt, ArgonX2, or CobaltX2 could have been very compelling around $1400 and they already had all the developed bits needed to build that back in early 2020. Who knows if introducing that synth summer 2020 would have been a path to some other place than this?
Synth news! Thank you for creating. I am happy with my roland gear. I would be VERY happy with model gear. Hopefully the next crop of synth manufacturers are more digital. Everything is to analog these days.
They became an odd combination of ingredients where they don’t appeal to beginners or just lacking things to make them top tier gear. Their pricing reflects this well and I imagined they could have done better to pump out more beginner level Korg and Roland price point gear sooner than giving us our beloved mid tier toys. Excellent value yes but put in a strange place market wise. I love the Colbalt 8x for its build quality but don’t love the synth itself enough to have purchased it new. I’m exactly the kind of person that did not help them succeed as I purchased mine for $500 used, like new, locally and for that low price I can accept its few shortcomings and use it to control other synths that have terrible key beds. What a bummer. I have a Skulpt hidden somewhere also and that was an insane value on paper however the UI was annoying and something else I have forgotten about ( filter maybe ) sounds super though; I should dig it up and link them together.
Bummer. I've been putting off getting a Cobalt for some time. Not sure whether I'm happy to have not gotten one now that it will have no ongoing support, or sad that myself and others who were on the fence didn't take the plunge and maybe give the company the sales they needed to keep going.
I also have the Argon8x, the most beautifull piece of hardware I own. It seems like the Moog people are all laid off too, not a good time for synth world. ☹
Sad news. Only thing I can hope for is that my Cobalt8m which I will hold on to, will become a though after classic over time. And 2nd hand prices will fall within the first months. That’s the moment I will buy a second hand Argon also.
I find it very funny that you put Modal as a brand that gets fired. Oh really? Did novation go with focusrite? Ok, they lowered the quality of materials a lot, but they are still Novation. But I trust Focusrite, I know that they are very English and very favorable to preserving English inventions or products. I really think it's good news so that Modal doesn't miss out, it's always a great brand and always with incredible products. Greetings and thanks for the video. 👍
Thanks Scott, for the info! Hopefully the product line will be re-lanced by a competent company, and the engineers get employed🤔🙂 I was looking forwards to the new Carbon synth... 😕
I once owned their 8 voice analog. Beautiful sounds! Sad to hear this. Maybe it was 16 voices. It was black and stunningly gorgeous. The “OO” series was such a joy! Thankfully, I only have eyes for SUMMIT now, though unlike you, I don’t yet own one… The Modal APP: kind of like something so very thoughtful, like Tim Shoebridge would design.
Oh my gosh...Paula! I'm thrilled that you deemed my little channel here worthy of looking at and commenting on! For those not aware of who this is, Paula is the genius original co-founder of Modal, and the creator of the 002, 008 and many other amazing synthesizers. Paula, I hope to see the rebirth of Dove Audio again at some point, in some form or another.
@@ScottsSynthStuffThank you, you're very kind. Your channel is great, I've watched quite a few of your videos (you have an amazing space and a superb collection), keep up the great work.
Sad to hear this, but going to buy one of their synths soon. Need to keep small companies like this going or else we are stuck with those huge multinationals that moniterise everything.
The negative amount at the shareholders account is not equal to an annual loss. It showing an accumulation over the entire life of the company. This is because you’re showing the Balance report (for various years) in this video. The annual loss (or profit) is shown in the Profit and Loss report, which is also known as the PnL report.
Hey Scott! Thanks for your thorough videos and perspectives on all the synthe that you cover. I just purchased a used Modal Cobalt 8M and I see that it is basically no Modal website for me to get their V2 firmware. Do you have a apk link where I can download the Firmware update???
Scott, same here for me. Love it but I’m on v1.2. Any help to secure at least v2 would be awesome. Thanks for having such an informative channel. I bought my OG Gaia based off your videos of it.
Sad news if true. They make some great products. I wouldn't let it stop me buying another of their synths though. I mean i own a couple of Behringer synths too and they drop all support for their products before they've even shipped them.
I hope there is away out of this, I love my Argon8. Maybe they could take a page out of Korg's book and release software versions of their synths. e.g. Wavestate Native
Depends on how they do it. Korg definitely writes their synth engines in a portable way, probably more or less reuse their support libraries and "just" write UI and release, could be harder or too expensive for other companies.
You missed mentioning another, relative good, possibility - the Modal diaspora, particularly the best engineers and designers, creating one or more synth companies.
it really sucks, like you said- beautiful products. love my cobalt, love my argon. was looking forward to the new one, carbon or whatever… I’m still on the fence about trading the argon 8M for a second cobalt 8M so i can link them together. 8 voice polyphony would be sick, but i also love throwing the two on the same midi channel and blending the sounds. software got buggy with the latest update, it doesn’t seamlessly switch like it used to- i’m afraid that further updates might be aimed and tanking my units, seems like a lot of unpaid employees…. when that happens to me, i see RED.
Hey guys I noticed that my Cobalt8 is showing a strange behavior, when I turn it on in any patch, a few seconds later the sound stops coming out of the right output, even if I change the patch, the problem continues, after a few seconds the sound comes back out of both exits. Has anyone ever had this problem? The problem occurs in both the master output and the headphone output, the audio input is also affected.
It appears that the Modal website was hacked at least as of May 2 and I have a FB message from Modal that appears to confirm this, and that it may not be fully fixed yet.
Their new web site (well, old site, new server host) is definitely compromised, and is serving up malware at the moment - I would advice not visiting it until it is fixed and properly secured.
@@ScottsSynthStuff yes. I have a FB message from Modal confirming this, though apparently they outsource responses to their FB messages since the reply was in broken English.
Even a company that makes great products is not immune to circumstances. It would be interesting to know how much the pandemic, supply chain issues and the economic downturn vs, poor management has really brought Modal to this point. Regardless, I feel it is a loss to the synth world so many of us love.
If a company with deep pockets doesn’t save modal, I have a feeling that the argon and colbalt will become extremely expensive pre owned as they are such a good product. I think this is my time to buy one while I still can
I'd pretty much just decided to get one of their synths (probably Argon) as my first hardware synth over the coming year. I guess i'm back to controller or synth researching.
Shame that modal is like this now. I love the sound of modal and was planning to purchase their product. I was planning to buy cobalt5s. Personally modal sounds very very good it is one of the best or best sounding synth ever. One thing I think is problem is that I think everyday people will buy more elementary beginner workstation like korg instead of modal, idk it is just my thought, also I want to point out I live in South Korea and not many stores or even online sells modal, I was wondering why their product is not widespread, because cleary their products are better than some other ones but before cobalt 5s, cobalt did not have budget friendly products at least korea here
Focusrite could be a good match, but I would be on the fence since they haven’t done anything interesting with Novation lately, maybe is bc of a lack of engineering’s but the key modal people might be already scattered by now, focusrite has the distribution and production capacity to make modal profitable, and somehow I don’t think the big 3 Japanese are interested in buying modal
i got one of their synths and it has a weird bug where the synth constantly produces some sort of click sound for no reason. now i'm unsure who to ask for help. they don't seem to have a discord group or forum like most vst developers have. how is this kinda stuff sone with reallife synths? i haven't ever bought a hardware synth before so i'm kind of a noob, but it's just not been a pleasant experience so far
I have a Cobalt 8 XL and an Argon module midi together. No tablet, just old school knob turning 🤓 and absolutely love them! Together, they are a powerful and unique combination!
I was thinking about buying the modual to use with the synth aswell. Other than triggering the sounds does it add to the polyphony of the synth?
Hi Anthony, Please pardon the delayed response. Each synth has 8 voices. When they are connected via midi one keyboard plays both synths. I play the Cobalt 8X (has keys) and midi to Argon 8 module (no keys). Therefore, 8 voices from Cobalt 1/4” L-R audio out and 8 voices from Argon 1/4” L-R audio outs. 4 audio channels with 16 voices. Does this answer your question? Let me know if you have any further questions or desire additional information about this set up.
Man their products are so beautiful, I hope they can survive
If they don’t manage their finances well, no amount of cool design or innovation will save them.
@@Simbor-rh1dj Maybe another company can buy them and take over the financial management 🤷
@@vinnienHow much would that be? Can we pool that?
Your Cobalt videos played a big part in my decision to buy a Cobalt 8x this past summer as my first hardware synth. Sad news.
+1
I just recently purchased a Cobalt 8 from Modal and I love it! It's really disheartening to hear this news and the specifics especially given the fact that I wanted to continue to buy Modal products. I hope a deep pocketed company can see the value, like you said, and have these synths and their developers live on under better terms and wiser management. It's clear Modal knows how to make an awesome product that resonates within the synth enthusiast community, unfortunately its even clearer that Modal leadership wasn't guiding the company towards any meaningful long term success.
This is tragic news.
I crowdfunded 2 modal synths craft and skulpt. These were fabulous synths with the modal app you mentioned opening up so many deep features.
The obvious inability to make money would suggest bad financial management since multiple successful crowdfunding projects show a market is eager to back this fabulous company.
Thank you for such an insightful video.
Bingo.
That’s why crowd funding can be really bad when the people behind the project either can’t do management very well or simply just use the platform for gaining free funding for Wild projects that will never end in something that can make a revenue.
There is sadly also brilliant things made this way that just really arent gonna make any real income unless you have a large Corporation that can afford having showstopper models that they use as image for innovation while having normal stuff for regular custommers that keeps the Company afloat and actually producing revenue for the investors. Its just a fact that it is really hard as a little indie Company with few but great products at a high cost can’t tolerate to make one bad decission. Where a major brand can easy deduct some projects once in a while that for some reason isn’t succes’s . But in a world where the revenue per item gets smaller every year, even major brands can have major losses in R&D if a project isn’t a succes. That is why we see Companies keep milking the same dead cow for decades just putting out a “+” version every now and then that have a red button instead of a blue one and a minor update. Reason why those showstopper Workstations isn’t getting very much love these days. It simply cost too much to develope and can’t keep up with the advancement in software products.
To be honest an established company who uses a crowdfunding platform to fund development costs is already a red flag and an evidence that appropriate management wasn't in place, they simply bit on more than they can chew.
I have a Cobalt 8 and I love it. It was really great value for the money too. But being somewhat in the finance world, I can tell you crowdfunding is considered a major risk signal. It means the business is too shakey to get money from legit investors.
@@vincezab1 Exactly seen from a financial and risk vs actual seeing a finnished product crowdfunding IS risky snd you never know how long these companies are gonna being around. Not saying all crowdfunded things is bad or scams but there is so many of those projects that never manages to deliver what they promised or just blatantly is made for scamming people.
I think the closest I've ever gotten to a Modal synth was a Cobalt 8 I briefly touched at Guitar Center a long while back. It's really sad to hear about a small boutique synth company that is known for making good products go down in flames. First Moog, now this.
Thanks for sharing.
Yes, I too have first hand reports of what you said from a previous Modal employee. I thought about you, Scott, being a fan of Modal products and wondered how long it would be before you or someone else started reporting this on RUclips. It has progressed far enough (as you found) that it isn't a secret anymore. Very sad.
Sad to see, but not much of a surprise. I'd noticed some folks (about 7-8 months ago) who worked for Modal who had stated that they had left due to cash flow issues in Modal impacting on their ability to pay them. Also sad for the workers owed money and for the suppliers as well.
That sucks man. Sorry to hear this. I guess it's a tough business. :( We need these companies to succeed though. More independents the better. More product varieties, more r&d etc. Maybe they should have reached out to the community for a bailout?
Personally, I think it's great you're sharing this information and knowledge Scott. Knowledge is power and for anyone contemplating the purchase of a Modal product, at least they now know the risk involved regarding important areas such as warranty and product development and updates.
- From that viewpoint, it could be a reason not to buy one. On the other hand, I was thinking people should quickly buy one before it becomes a vintage rare synth that you can only still get at over-inflated prices. 😀
- When I bought my Korg Prologue, it was marketed as their flagship synth, but that whole project seems to have gone pretty dead too at the time I bought it. It's also a bit of a rarity synth. I think you can only still buy what's in stocks.
I purchased my Cobalt 8 around a month ago and after visiting their site it showed me a lot about the future support of their products...their support page to this day will not load without kicking back a security error. If this was a legitimate concern they would have remedied the issue by now but here we are. I still love my Cobalt 8 regardless. Thank god this all happened after the V2 update otherwise it would be a far different story. @@valleyken
When you write "I think it's great", you don't need to say "Personally" before it. Anybody with half a brain knows you are referring to yourself.
It's like saying, "Personally, speaking for myself, in my opinion, I think it's great"...ridiculous.
Thanks for this Scott. Excellent channel and I appreciated your tact with delivering this sad news. I hope a company picks them up too.
One of my favorite synths I own is my Argon desktop. I hope the support for it is continued. Damn good synth!!!
I got a 002 half a year ago, and it's kind of a new one. Luckily the selling company also has another one for spare parts. I absolutely love it. I'm kind of spoiled when it comes to synths (A6, Kijimi, MKS80rev5, MKS70 Vecoven, P12, MS20m etc) and the 002 looks gorgeous and sounds fucking marvelous. Fantastic job @PaulasTechStuff !! 🤩🤩
I first heard this piece of sad news here about Modal Electronics. I am a relatively new customer with a COBALT5S I bought back in March 2023.
With the possibility of this company going completely out of business, it would be prudent for owners of their great products to download/make a backup copy of their App & VST while they still can because they might be withdrawn! I do hope somebody buys this company soon enough!
One minor correction. I'm an accountant (in the US, this could be a difference with international accounting convention) and when I hear you say "in the red" I think of that as a sales loss for the year, not an indication of assets on hand as you mention the phrase - in fact "black friday" in the US is called such because a lot of companies are "in the red" until the holiday sales start and it's not entirely unusual. Other than that your knowledge of business/balance sheets seems pretty sound. You involved in business somewhere?
I was guessing before, but seeing these numbers now I can say with greater certainty it looks like the company spent big to bring some great products to market and the rising interest rates made the debt they racked up impossible for them to service. The products they make are great, but there's no world where sales are going to jump enough for them to cover the rapidly rising costs of debt, and I'm not sure how attractive taking on all that debt will be to any potential purchaser. I cannot tell if the products are selling profitably or not without a COGS metric, it could be that all these losses are down to finance/overhead costs (which it sounds like anecdotally from another source of mine).
I think you're correct regarding how they ended up in this situation - lots of outlay in R&D in hopes that future sales would pay down those costs, and betting that the future cost of servicing that debt would remain constant.
I am not involved in business, but I can do research, which I did for this video. I'm definitely no accountant, so that's why I did ask at the end for any suggestions/corrections, for which I appreciate your comments!
Sad. Here's to hoping Focusrite picks them up. If they're too much in the hole and Modal 2 flahship can't be recovered, it may be too much for a third party to step in. One of my favorite synths is the Sequential Pro 3 SE I have, and been happy how Focusrite is running things after picking up an ownership stake after Dave Smith passed away.
Actually, and fortuitously, Dave Smith arranged the Focusrite shift before his untimely death. So glad it appears to be in good hands.
Thank you for sharing this dismal news, Scott. I love my Cobalt 8 too and am sad that it is becoming such a relic after such a short time.
Yeah Focusrite/Novation might have been a possible new home. But if Modal has a lot of debt it may be simpler and cheaper to poach their engineers to develop new DSP products, like a next generation Circuit with a significant hardware upgrade.
Sad news !
This brand offers accessible and very interesting synthesizers. The DACs are average (a little low output level) but the rest is really well built with quality elements (they are not like most manufacturers who make small savings by integrating low-end keyboards). And indeed they show a good example to Roland by offering complete and functional software
I'm probably going to buy a Cobalt Desktop before they disappear from stores :).
Me too
It is sad. I am really glad to own a Cobalt 8X, love it... I hope the product will not fall apart and some company will acquire it.
Look at the economy, inflation, and lowering of the standard of living in America and the UK...I fesr this is only the beginning of synth companies going under.
Make that many companies (not just synths) and I’ll agree with you!
The s**t has only just started being returned by the fan given levels of debt in regards to level of disposable income!
My 002 was never finished. Really cool synth. Well built. Paula left Modal. The debt is tough for sure. Hope they keep working on things but sad they can't service the old synths. Maybe release the code and designs to public domain?
That would be awesome and a way for them to potentially live on and continue to contribute to the community
@@jh5131 ya it would be very sad for the creditors if someone were to accidentally share it all on the torrents...
Such a shame to see little companies fail
Scott: Fascinating look at the business side of the music biz! Very sad that it's come to the dissolution of an amazing-sounding instrument company. Yes, I'd like to hear more about the financial side. Thank you for presenting this in a balanced and neutral report.
I bought Cobalt8X thanks to your review, and I still absolutely love it 1.5 years later! Not only it sounds great, but the keybed is just next level, it became my main midi controller. I really hope someone buys Modal out and continues working on their products.
It's wonderful as a MIDI controller, not only is it a great synth on its own merit, but it's nice to play as well, with a great feeling Fatar keybed.
I suspect that sales are down big time across the board for so called luxury items. Many people are so hard pressed these days that they're not buying. If like it seems was the case with Modal that they were trying to sell volume product to service debt, the cost of living crisis came just at the wrong time for them. Many small & medium Enterprises are struggling here in the U.K.
I think you're absolutely correct. They were depending on an increase in sales just as an economic downturn occurred.
The UK has suffered quite a bit in recent years, and some people (all over the world)are also selling their gear after the pandemic. Have seen vintage gear prices drop, and a lot of more recent gear selling online. Current manufacturers are probably feeling the squeeze due to still higher than historic manufacturing, parts scarcity, and shipping costs. That’s my not very expert assessment.
The company has been loss making for years, so that's not only the result of a recent issue. They took on a lot of debt and it's catching up with them now.
Nice video. Things have moved on a bit from this thankfully. I supported the company from the very beginning and sad to see how they have gone. I have a 002 and 008 in my studio area, both with FX cards. These are classics for sure, but even these were not really supported and the updates stopped. Mark.
This is such sad news. When I got my Cobalt the price, sound and keybed made it a no-brainer to get instead of an expensive controller. Here’s hoping they survive.
I had a feeling this would happen at some point, I use to own a Modal 008 which at the time was their flagship 8 voice VCO based poly synth with multi-mode filters similar to the Oberheim Matrix 12, and while it was a great machine at first it was soo buggy from a user perspective to a point sometimes un-usable and this was a few years in even after a few updates, that stopped and I kept on thinking my 3k synth might end up being a expensive bit of studio decoration, being from the UK i was exciting about supporting a UK company but the lack of customer support at the time and non-response really had me concerned so I parted ways with it, I do agree that Focusrite should maybe rescue Modal as I still think they make fantastic quality kit, for now I’m happy and ill stick with my Novation Summit.
Very sad to hear. I had the chance to work wih Christian on some Modal synths and it was a very nice experience, with him and with the synthesizers. Keep my fingers crossed..
I think someone will surely take advantage of their IP and keep making the products.
It’s so strange ti hear a story like this.
It doesn’t seem possible they could have ever made it in to the black.
Companies house is just showing the balance sheet from one year to the next, not the trading profit. Profits ( and losses ) from one year to the next are added ( or subtracted ) from the P&L line on the balance sheet, so the actual profit ( or loss ) for the year is the difference in the P&L line from one year to the next. So they lost about £600k in the last year, not £2m ( which is the cumulative sum of the losses over the whole trading history )
Correct and well said.
They showed up at NAMM saying the Carbon8 is ready for production.
Sad indeed. I don’t have any modal synth myself but I have been looking at them. I plan to get argon module one day.
Fingers crossed for them.
Such a shame - they've made some fantastic synths. The 008 was the stuff of dreams, and it sounds like they had another monster in the works!
I've got the Cobalt 8. Oh, man. This really is bad news, cause it's a really cool synth. Crossing my fingers so that the product line can continue... somehow.
Oh man... An Analog-Digital Argon8-Cobalt8 hybrid would have been the bomb. Would have buy it in a heartbeat.
I have that set up; Cobalt 8X midi to Argon 8 module. Absolutely beautiful sound creation options.
I need to hug my synths, my piano and my Hammond❤
I agree: the ModalApp makes their Argon 8 & Carbon 8 very compelling modern instruments. However, if I were a young musician just starting out, the ASM Hydrasynth would have a higher priority on my buy list. While I am hopeful that the Carbon 8 will eventually be released, I’m not going to hold my breath.
Have you actually played the 002? It sounds good, but the interface is buggy as all hell. Dumping a ton of money into a product that will never get off the ground is how other synth manufacturers failed (ARP Axxe, Ensoniq Paris).
It was released
So glad I picked up the Cobalt8 4 years ago
So sad that Modal Electronics is fading away
Novation should buy the name and the splendid developer team! Modal products could fit perfectly in the Novation line. They have Sequential/Oberheim on the high end now, and could add Modal engines to advanced groove boxes and a new Peak/Summit series.
The dev team left. They could buy the brand and designs, but that's it. I doubt they will.
Jan 25 2024. Good to see Modal at NAMM 24 with the carbon 8 on display, The company still is moving ahead in limited capacity!
😅 My Cobalt5s get delivered in a week. My first synth. Hope the company is around for firmware upgrades and such.
I guess it's fitting in a way as my Cobalt 5s is what I've been the most with my E-Mu Proteus 2000 ROMs in my PK6 - E-Mu went down the drain many years ago but, knock on wood, the gear has been 100% reliable for 20 years now.
...using* the most..
Thanks for the overview. Puts the whole Moog situation in perspective honestly. Disappointing but maybe that’s what it takes to keep the brand alive.
Moog got bought up by scum, a far cry from Focusrite buying Sequential. High chance that Moog may later be reduced to a brand of budget MIDI controllers. The brand is very screwed.
If I buy a carbon 8 and somethjbg breaks am I going to be out of luck to get a replacement part? If Modal does shut down
Sad to hear this. I didn't have any of their synths but was hoping to get one some day.
I just got my Cobalt 5S three weeks ago! I was hoping for at least a firmware update for Reverb. Oh well, let's hope Modal doesn't get bought out by InMusic like Moog!
I’ve had my 008 in for repair for three years, with Modal going completely quiet once I even mentioned Paula (no response for a year). Paula is amazing, and offered to try to procure/create a replacement CPU board for my 008, doing more in 24 hours than Modal ever did.
It’s sad to see them go downhill so far.
Sadly you're one of many. Anything 001, 002 or 008 related isn't (wasn't?) supported by Modal if something went wrong.
Ill trade you a working synth for your broken 008. It's my dream synth.
@@JayKaufman it's a shame, and I'm sorry to hear that. I have repaired a few 002s and 008s, people can reach out to me and I will do what I can to help
Sad news along with the apparent demise of Moog too
That is so sad. What I would want to know is, what started this in the first place? Why did their products not sell, especially considering how well regarded they were?
I picked up an Argon 8x from Sam Ash last year for about 800, a hell of a deal at that time. Now both Sam Ash and Modal are about to be gone.
What a shame. I wish them to continue to exist in some form, though I think they fundamentally do not compete well with the other market offerings, if they did they would move many more units. If they merged the argon and cobalt into the same physical product it would be far more appealing. I went for a Hydrasynth as it just seems better to me after considering both. The value proposition could swing it I think. They also released alot of products in a short time window over the last few years too, that would bot have been cheap. Focusrite acquiring them would be interesting, I widh they acquired Moog instead too as they have a better stance on supporting their brands than InMusic.
If I could get the Argon8 oscillators into my Hydrasynth I'd be a very happy bunny!
Fantastic insider information. I spent a lot of hours for the better part of a year knowing I should like my Cobalt 8, but it just never drew me in for "hours of lost time" they way some other synths do. I finally sold it last week. Other than labels the UI on both synths is identical. Perhaps they felt some sort of "combined" labeling and the ability to load either engine per patch would have hurt sales? IMHO that would have made a compelling instrument compared to alternatives. A bi-timbral in the 5 octave package with 2 engines onboard and the ability to have Argon+Cobalt, ArgonX2, or CobaltX2 could have been very compelling around $1400 and they already had all the developed bits needed to build that back in early 2020. Who knows if introducing that synth summer 2020 would have been a path to some other place than this?
Synth news! Thank you for creating. I am happy with my roland gear. I would be VERY happy with model gear. Hopefully the next crop of synth manufacturers are more digital. Everything is to analog these days.
They became an odd combination of ingredients where they don’t appeal to beginners or just lacking things to make them top tier gear.
Their pricing reflects this well and I imagined they could have done better to pump out more beginner level Korg and Roland price point gear sooner than giving us our beloved mid tier toys.
Excellent value yes but put in a strange place market wise. I love the Colbalt 8x for its build quality but don’t love the synth itself enough to have purchased it new. I’m exactly the kind of person that did not help them succeed as I purchased mine for $500 used, like new, locally and for that low price I can accept its few shortcomings and use it to control other synths that have terrible key beds. What a bummer.
I have a Skulpt hidden somewhere also and that was an insane value on paper however the UI was annoying and something else I have forgotten about ( filter maybe ) sounds super though; I should dig it up and link them together.
Bummer. I've been putting off getting a Cobalt for some time. Not sure whether I'm happy to have not gotten one now that it will have no ongoing support, or sad that myself and others who were on the fence didn't take the plunge and maybe give the company the sales they needed to keep going.
Its mid-February 2024. How is Modal as a company doing now? Question: Is it worth my while to buy a Cobalt 8X with the company facing bankruptcy?
Crossing my fingers for good news. My only synth is the argon8x and I love that thing.
I also have the Argon8x, the most beautifull piece of hardware I own. It seems like the Moog people are all laid off too, not a good time for synth world. ☹
Sad news. Only thing I can hope for is that my Cobalt8m which I will hold on to, will become a though after classic over time. And 2nd hand prices will fall within the first months. That’s the moment I will buy a second hand Argon also.
So will this make my Cobalt8 worth more? I know my Ensoniq ASR-10 purple screen SCSI KB has went way up in price.
Devastated! I have the argon 8 and was really looking forward to the carbon 8
I find it very funny that you put Modal as a brand that gets fired.
Oh really? Did novation go with focusrite? Ok, they lowered the quality of materials a lot, but they are still Novation.
But I trust Focusrite, I know that they are very English and very favorable to preserving English inventions or products.
I really think it's good news so that Modal doesn't miss out, it's always a great brand and always with incredible products.
Greetings and thanks for the video. 👍
Thanks Scott, for the info! Hopefully the product line will be re-lanced by a competent company, and the engineers get employed🤔🙂 I was looking forwards to the new Carbon synth... 😕
when i try to turn my cobalt 8x on, i get the error message: "Error: Voice Boot, Please Contact Support"
anybody know what's up with that?
I have a 001 and love it so much. 008 is a dream synth but it looks like I’ll never own one now
I once owned their 8 voice analog.
Beautiful sounds! Sad to hear this. Maybe it was 16 voices. It was black and stunningly gorgeous. The “OO” series was such a joy! Thankfully, I only have eyes for SUMMIT now, though unlike you, I don’t yet own one…
The Modal APP: kind of like something so very thoughtful, like Tim Shoebridge would design.
it was a 008 and had 8 voices, I'm glad you liked it :)
@@PaulasTechStuff it was a work of Art!
@@watchaddicts1213 Thank you, it is a great synth.
Oh my gosh...Paula! I'm thrilled that you deemed my little channel here worthy of looking at and commenting on! For those not aware of who this is, Paula is the genius original co-founder of Modal, and the creator of the 002, 008 and many other amazing synthesizers. Paula, I hope to see the rebirth of Dove Audio again at some point, in some form or another.
@@ScottsSynthStuffThank you, you're very kind.
Your channel is great, I've watched quite a few of your videos (you have an amazing space and a superb collection), keep up the great work.
I think you'll be seeing far more synth companies go out of business from this downturn we're entering.
People don’t have the disposable income they once did . Hardware is becoming more expensive and only the fat cats can “ play” the game .
We've been in such a downturn that the MIC has to have the left and right supporting 2 wars at once.
I wish they had merged with Moog..Now If they merge with Yamaha, Focusrite, or Roland, that would be amazing..
Sad to hear this, but going to buy one of their synths soon. Need to keep small companies like this going or else we are stuck with those huge multinationals that moniterise everything.
Hey Scott, I realized we have all the same Sweetwater T-Shirts 😄
The negative amount at the shareholders account is not equal to an annual loss. It showing an accumulation over the entire life of the company. This is because you’re showing the Balance report (for various years) in this video.
The annual loss (or profit) is shown in the Profit and Loss report, which is also known as the PnL report.
Hey Scott! Thanks for your thorough videos and perspectives on all the synthe that you cover.
I just purchased a used Modal Cobalt 8M and I see that it is basically no Modal website for me to get their V2 firmware.
Do you have a apk link where I can download the Firmware update???
Give it a couple days. :)
Scott, same here for me. Love it but I’m on v1.2. Any help to secure at least v2 would be awesome. Thanks for having such an informative channel. I bought my OG Gaia based off your videos of it.
I just got a skulpt black for $40 …… works like a charm
What a shame. Their hardware/software integration alone makes it my favorite synth to work with.
Sad news if true. They make some great products. I wouldn't let it stop me buying another of their synths though. I mean i own a couple of Behringer synths too and they drop all support for their products before they've even shipped them.
Bummer! seemed like a bunch of good synths!
I hope there is away out of this, I love my Argon8. Maybe they could take a page out of Korg's book and release software versions of their synths. e.g. Wavestate Native
Depends on how they do it. Korg definitely writes their synth engines in a portable way, probably more or less reuse their support libraries and "just" write UI and release, could be harder or too expensive for other companies.
That makes perfect sense
Sad...very sad. I still have Cobalt 8x still new in the box. 🤕🤕
Oh no, I was looking forward to the next keyboard to see what they would come up with 😢
You missed mentioning another, relative good, possibility - the Modal diaspora, particularly the best engineers and designers, creating one or more synth companies.
With the Argon8 and Cobalt8, Modal made perfect synths. Very specific sounding, compact, good software along and low priced. Hope they will survive!!
it really sucks, like you said- beautiful products. love my cobalt, love my argon. was looking forward to the new one, carbon or whatever… I’m still on the fence about trading the argon 8M for a second cobalt 8M so i can link them together. 8 voice polyphony would be sick, but i also love throwing the two on the same midi channel and blending the sounds.
software got buggy with the latest update, it doesn’t seamlessly switch like it used to- i’m afraid that further updates might be aimed and tanking my units, seems like a lot of unpaid employees…. when that happens to me, i see RED.
This is so sad. I love my Modal Cobalt.
Hey guys
I noticed that my Cobalt8 is showing a strange behavior, when I turn it on in any patch, a few seconds later the sound stops coming out of the right output, even if I change the patch, the problem continues, after a few seconds the sound comes back out of both exits. Has anyone ever had this problem?
The problem occurs in both the master output and the headphone output, the audio input is also affected.
It appears that the Modal website was hacked at least as of May 2 and I have a FB message from Modal that appears to confirm this, and that it may not be fully fixed yet.
Their new web site (well, old site, new server host) is definitely compromised, and is serving up malware at the moment - I would advice not visiting it until it is fixed and properly secured.
@@ScottsSynthStuff yes. I have a FB message from Modal confirming this, though apparently they outsource responses to their FB messages since the reply was in broken English.
Even a company that makes great products is not immune to circumstances. It would be interesting to know how much the pandemic, supply chain issues and the economic downturn vs, poor management has really brought Modal to this point. Regardless, I feel it is a loss to the synth world so many of us love.
If a company with deep pockets doesn’t save modal, I have a feeling that the argon and colbalt will become extremely expensive pre owned as they are such a good product. I think this is my time to buy one while I still can
I'd pretty much just decided to get one of their synths (probably Argon) as my first hardware synth over the coming year. I guess i'm back to controller or synth researching.
Shame that modal is like this now. I love the sound of modal and was planning to purchase their product. I was planning to buy cobalt5s. Personally modal sounds very very good it is one of the best or best sounding synth ever. One thing I think is problem is that I think everyday people will buy more elementary beginner workstation like korg instead of modal, idk it is just my thought, also I want to point out I live in South Korea and not many stores or even online sells modal, I was wondering why their product is not widespread, because cleary their products are better than some other ones but before cobalt 5s, cobalt did not have budget friendly products at least korea here
Modal will join Quasimidi, EMU, Ensoniq? I hope not. I do want both the racks. Update::: I just want the whole thing. Omgggg
noooo i need a argon and cobalt 8 ):
Well, it looks like Behringer has a new line of synths to clone.
Focusrite could be a good match, but I would be on the fence since they haven’t done anything interesting with Novation lately, maybe is bc of a lack of engineering’s but the key modal people might be already scattered by now, focusrite has the distribution and production capacity to make modal profitable, and somehow I don’t think the big 3 Japanese are interested in buying modal
The company has an horrific history before it even became Modal. No shocks here at all.
A very sad time for the synthesizer world and with MOOG also changing ( for the worst? )..........what will the coming years look and sound like 😥
I think I saw the Behringer shark swimming around the periphery...
i got one of their synths and it has a weird bug where the synth constantly produces some sort of click sound for no reason.
now i'm unsure who to ask for help. they don't seem to have a discord group or forum like most vst developers have.
how is this kinda stuff sone with reallife synths? i haven't ever bought a hardware synth before so i'm kind of a noob, but it's just not been a pleasant experience so far
I just tested their cobalt man it's prestigious in build. It's solid.
I remember when the 002 & 008 came out did not last long on the market. I picked up both the Argon 8m & Cobalt 8m was hoping for a Carbon 8m
I know George Hearn of Udo Audio helped design some of the 002
@@MrNot4saken Not quite, he worked on 008. 002 was made before George Hearn was involved.
@@MrNot4saken You have been corrected by the horses mouth 🤣