My pushback against the Christian Poverty Movement.
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- I really hope that those who have freely chosen to be part of communal living or to sell all they have will pay close attention to the actual verses of Scripture I use here and how consistently the Bible makes it clear that this command is not for all believers. I've made several different points which each seem quite powerful in proving that this movement has misapplied some verses and missed the meaning of others.
You can freely do so, but to tell everyone that they are obligated to do so is not only demonstrably unbiblical, it comes with a lot of heartache and can cause whole communities of Christians to become a burden on their neighbors.
My website BibleThinker.org
I've always thought Proverbs 30:8-9 is a great example of how to approach things:
"Keep falsehood and lies far from me; give me neither poverty nor riches, but give me only my daily bread. Otherwise, I may have too much and disown you and say, "Who is the LORD?" Or I may become poor and steal, and so dishonor the name of my God."
That is written by someone who could only handle a certain level of prosperity. If that is all that you can handle, fine. That is not all God has for His children, nor it it all that He wants for them.
@@lilchristuten7568 if you are a Christian, then you believe that Proverbs was written by God through man. You can’t just say that it applies to someone who doesn’t want more prosperity, as it is a proverb that was written to teach all of us. I would also recommend that you look into what the Bible says about prosperity and suffering, as it sounds like you may believe in the prosperity Gospel
@@jordanramsey4619
Proverbs 30:7-9 KJV
[7] Two things have I required of thee; Deny me them not before I die: [8] Remove far from me vanity and lies: Give me neither poverty nor riches; Feed me with food convenient for me: [9] Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the LORD? Or lest I be poor, and steal, And take the name of my God in vain.
The writer is specifically talking about what they personally have asked of God. This is not a prescription for how everyone is to approach wealth.
John 16:15 KJV
[15] All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Romans 8:32 KJV
[32] He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Psalm 35:27 KJV
[27] Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: Yea, let them say continually, Let the LORD be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.
Jeremiah 29:11 AMPC
[11] For I know the thoughts and plans that I have for you, says the Lord, thoughts and plans for welfare and peace and not for evil, to give you hope in your final outcome.
Mark 11:23 AMPC
[23] Truly I tell you, whoever says to this mountain, Be lifted up and thrown into the sea! and does not doubt at all in his heart but believes that what he says will take place, it will be done for him.
Joshua 1:8 AMPC
[8] This Book of the Law shall not depart out of your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, that you may observe and do according to all that is written in it. For then you shall make your way prosperous, and then you shall deal wisely and have good success.
Prosperity is the promise of God to His people.
Thanks for this! the way we have been teaching this sort of thing to our youth and college group is "not every Christian is called to sell everything they have and give it away, but every Christian is called to be ready and willing to at any moment if called." still a huge challenge because I think we all really love our stuff more than we think we do
Do you?
If you start saying "I" rather than "we", you will grow spiritually...
@@leenieledejo6849 very much including myself in that. but its not something that just I struggle with. "I" am part of a community, the Church, and the "We" in that community help me in my spiritual growth every day. I understand what you mean, but know that I'm not pointing a finger at a group of people pointing out a problem and pretending like I don't have that problem. I very much have the problem of materialism. As do so many people. But iron sharpens iron. and in the wise words of Troy Bolton; "We are all in this together"
Your theology is absolutely wrong, and here's why. NO Christian was ever required to sell all of their possessions. Christ only told the rich nobleman to do that, and it's because He wanted the man to acknowledge and confront His covetousness. Christ's words to the nobleman was never meant to be read as a universal command or recommendation.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 Hey, so I do not want this comment thread to become an place for arguments, I just don't think its fruitful. But I will clarify where I agree, I stated that "Not every Christian is called to sell everything they have and give it away". In that sense yes. But what is true, is that if God were to ask it, then as a believer we are to follow. As Pastor Mike started his video "If you are a Christian, you should be willing to do that" If God were to ask. Of course he doesn't ask that of every believer universally, I never claimed that. But he did ask it of this man, and he may well ask it of others if he should choose to. and for the very purpose you stated, to confront our covetousness.
And the passage should be a challenge to all of us to confront our covetesness. I certainly know that in my own life, and in the culture of where I live in the west, materialism and covetesness is everywhere, and often celebrated in many parts of Christian culture. So in that sense it is a very relevant passage and challenge to believers today dealing with such things, as it was for the rich young ruler. Again, I do not believe its a universal calling. But a challenging passage to reflect upon nonetheless. Also, I do not think that a youtube comment section is an ideal place for argument, and claiming that someones theology is absolutely wrong. I am simply trying to thank Pastor Mike for this video as it is helpful.
@@thomasjmcclure wonderful explanation. Thank you for teaching young people.
“Naked I came from my mother’s womb,
and naked I will depart.
The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away;
may the name of the Lord be praised.”
Job 21
The Lord didn't take away, satan did.
Its a command for a rich man who was too attached to material things, not for people in general.
I'm not arguing against Mike's general point, but we are all too attached to material things.
Exactly. I don't understand how anyone could misinterpret this?
Yay, someone who can READ! It drives me nuts that simple things like this get made so difficult. A teenager or even a bit younger should be able to read that passage and come to that same basic conclusion!
@@lemonkng3188 Me either, Jesus never SPECIFICALLY said.. This is why Mike is so good, because he has patience with people who have ALMOST no understanding of the Bible.
@@lemonkng3188 Maybe projecting there own hang up onto God, it would also explain how some people regard music in general as sinful rather then just come to the level headed conclusion that unless the music encourages sin it isn't sinful.
Also, Paul's command to the rich in 1 Timothy 6:17-19 wasn't to sell everything. It was to be generous and humble and to not trust in riches but God, that they may store up treasures in heaven.
"swear not" = financial contracts! "Whatever is more than these is of the evil one" Promise to pay is theft. (James)
I had a sister once who told me she had no money for her months rent. I felt a strong conviction to lend the money. It was about 1600. So I was happy to do it. I then found out she had used some money to get a tummy tuck and I knew then I was never getting it back either.
At first I felt annoyed and was wondering if I’d heard correctly from God as I had used my retirement savings. I realised later indeed I had and giving is not always about the person your helping but about you. About the testing of our heart and obedience to God. So He said to me be at peace. This was a blessing and a test for you. And I just let it go and never said anything to my friend.
I have had similar experiences and too realized it was more about me than about the person I was giving to.
If she is a believer in Jesus then we don't lend for needs. We give and this is seen by God as a sacrifice of a sweet smelling fragrance to him. To as much as you do it to the least of these my brethren you do it as if U r giving to Jesus himself and this is an investment in eternity and you will be rewarded in the next life
This may be a little off in left field, but I use it all the time: I once heard that as you practice to hear the voice of God, go with your first gut instinct (this gets better as time goes by). E.g. "Would you lend me...?" Whatever your gut says, yes or no; and after that don't listen to emotional pleas, which can sway you or cause you to doubt. (I'm not doubting that God nudged you to loan to her. In fact, maybe someday in the future you will be able to tell her how you were able to grow more in Christ after you'd heard she'd gotten cosmetic surgery; and how that God extends his grace and forgiveness in much the same way.) Also, I have a rule: never lend to anyone with a strong intention to receive back. That way, if they never pay me back I won't get a bad attitude. Well, my hat is off to you, Laureah! God uses all things to grow us up into Christ. You are blessed.
My parents always said "never lend family money if you expect it back, you just give it to them." That said if you hadn't given it to her for a tummy tuck, it probably wasn't this "blessing", but when we give, we trust that person, so definitely not a mistake.
@@Alwizcaliteach that's not necessarily bad, but I don't recall scripture giving that counsel.
Agreed. I think it's viewed backwards; the people out there looking down on others because they don't have are who this is aimed at. "You have arthritis? You must have little faith. You have cancer? God is disciplining you. You're poor and homeless? You did things wrong." The cruelty I have heard from people professing to be Christians has been so aweful. It's not having things that makes you good or bad; it's being in love with it☹️
I realized that actually if you blame people for their own hard times you are subscribing more to a Hindu worldview than a biblical one. Think about reincarnation. If it were true, then actually the bad things that happen in your life are you getting what you deserve. Jesus dispelled this myth when He told his disciples not to assume that the tower that fell on people and killed them were worse sinners than they were.
@@chelseabarker2250 Agreed
@@chelseabarker2250the only part I would disagree with is the poor and homeless part. Cause and effect is real, and is not a Hindu teaching. This is even reflected in the Bible, 2 Thessalonians 3:10, if a man does not work, he does not eat.
This is not a justification of ill treatment of the poor or a lack of compassion, and there could be extenuating circumstances that may prevent them from being able to provide for themselves, but in large part, people are in these positions because they have made poor life choices.
@@ryankelly9032 Great point.
Like the blind man, about whom the disciples asked Jesus, was it his parents or he who had sinned that caused his blindness.
I agree Mike! Wealth does not equate evil.. in fact many times wealth comes from God, & can be used in wonderful ways to help the poor & needy. Many Godly, holy, people were very wealthy throughout scripture- Job, Abraham, Solomon, etc… This is the first time I’ve heard about the “poverty” gospel. I think it’s a very legalistic (Pharisaic) type of attitude to promulgate that somehow being poor is Holy. I have nothing against anyone that wants to sell everything,help the poor and live a frugal lifestyle… It all depends on the motives of a person, & what God puts on their heart.. But I think personally it’s best to live a common sense lifestyle that enables you to help the less fortunate. Thanks for posting Mike!
While agreeing with the principle (it's explicitly stated in the case of Job that wealth was a blessing from God, for example), I don't think I'd use Solomon as an example of a Godly, holy man.
Thank you Mike for your anointed teaching. I have just recently discovered your videos and I love them. This exhortation is so good and so convicting. I appreciate you so much. May God keep you strong in Him; may He guard you and keep you under His wings. May He preserve you in every way. Keep up the good work. The church needs biblical truth and enlightened teachers.
Great teaching, Pastor Mike. I have been blessed incredibly by your faithful ministry.
This can be especially hard for very talented people who trust that their talents were given to them by God to be used for His glory and forget that our talents are not needed by God for anything He wants to do. We have to surrender ALL that He has given us to really come to Him and not trust in talents or riches, etc.
Invest your talent to the glory of God , humbly offering back the best you are able.
Do what you can.
I don't know if this message will reach you Mike Winger, but I wanted to say thank you. I couldn't find the original video, but you did a video where you wanted to encourage more Christians to move into spaces of streaming or having more of a presence in the online world. I had been struggling on whether or not to stream, but your video inspired me to do it with the right mindset and to deliver gospel to those that otherwise would never have heard it. I started streaming with my wife and the response has been amazing. You wouldn't think that streaming a video game could lead to such deep conversation, but it has truly been a blessing and I wanted to say thank you for giving me that encouragement.
That’s amazing!
I want to believe God can use every way possible to reach people.
And He used your capacities, what you are good at, to do just that 🙏🏻
Thanks for the share, it warmed my heart ^^
What immediately came to my mind, when I saw your topic, was what Paul writes in Ephesians 4:28: " Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need." Thanks, Mike, for you videos. I have always found them to be very helpful. Blessings on you, brother!
My singles Sunday school class was watching a series of video lessons on not being materialistic. The next Sunday half the class was talking about how they had got rid of collectibles, extra pairs of shoes....because this teaching made them feel guilty for having stuff. As long as it doesn't hinder your relationship with God, I don't think there's a problem with having money or nice things.
God bless you pastor Mike, because of you I have increased my knowledge in the bible 10x. I love how thoughtful your videos are and am proud to say I am on fire for the knowledge of Christ in part to your teaching.
“He makes the man come with nothing, spiritually and physically poor.”
Absolutely profound!! Blessed are the poor in spirit.
This part hit me as well!
Of all the channels offering sound Christian theology and apologetics, this one rises above Mike. Thanks so much for this! ❤
Thank you for your seasoning and humble advice. I feel your purpose is not to exhault you but the truth of the Word of God. No hidden agenda. Thank you for making me feel safe.
Thank you for this brother, I completely agree with your teaching here. Anything I put between myself and the Lord is an idol
This passage used to cause me so much confusion. Thank you, Mike, for bringing clarity to this piece of Scripture and explaining its application for discipleship. Just wish I had heard this 5 years ago!
This was actually Jesus using the Law and making it harder, in order to bring this man to conviction for thinking that he was righteous through the Law. Jesus exposed this man's lack by giving a law based answer and making it harder by telling him to sell everything.
Today we aren't told to sell everything, the context is Law here.
After all, according to the Old Covenant, if you were rich you were seen as a righteous person because God blessed the Law-keepers with great wealth. Those who meditated on His commandments day and night, were prosperous Joshua 1:8, Psalm 1:2. This is why the disciples were bamboozled when Jesus said it’s easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to make it to heaven. Such a statement went against everything they had been taught about wealth equaling righteousness
He asked me to give up alcohol. The Holy Spirit worked on me a long time, maybe a whole year, before I gave in. But I did... And I'm closer to Christ than ever. So unworthy and so grateful that God took the time to draw me closer to him in this way. Now I serve one master. ✝️
”Not that I speak in regard to need, for I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content: I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound. Everywhere and in all things I have learned both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.“
Philippians 4:11-13
Amen!!!
The point is to glorify God in whatever situation you are in and follow him and be willing to do whatever God asks in whatever season
Amen! My understanding is that when you're on God's program, which doesn't always equate to man's program, he'll see to it that your needs are met. e.g. Psalm 23:1, Philippians 4:19.
@@Jaxmusicgal23 So does God say different things in different seasons?
I don’t think you have any clue about how this has influenced thousands and thousands and thousands of sincere believers to live a passive life. The emphasis that you are putting forward is far more destructive than you might ever imagine.
Without going into great detail, I’ll put it this way, I’m 68 now and basically live in poverty. The emphasis that you are highlighting, DESTROYED MY LIFE!!! It destroyed my marriage.
He didn’t say “Super easy, barely an inconvenience.”
As Christians, we should have the attitude that everything belongs to God, therefore we really don't own a thing...we are responsible for stewarding it.
Spot on, Chris! Just like the parable of the talents in Matthew 25, God has entrusted us with many resources and those resources come from, and belong to, Him. It's our responsibility to help increase the value of those resources, so as to further His kingdom rather than our own.
Thank you for your video…it is biblical, convicting, and helpful…I appreciate your ministry…”God, I lift up my brother Mike. Thank you for his ministry and desire to speak biblical truth. Give him wisdom and discernment. Protect him and his family from the enemy. Pour out your spirit on him in a fresh new way. Encourage him and meet his needs whatever they may be. In Jesus Name I pray Amen.” Press in and press on! Eph. 3:20
When I accepted Christ as my saviour I did sell and give away all that I had. I realised that my life was full of stuff I needed to get rid of both spiritually and physically.
Funny thing is eventually I got more and better things back in the end without really coveting it. I didn't get rich but I have what I need. Matt 19.29
Just know that is not why Christ wanted the little flock to sell everything they had, he was preparing them for tribulation where you will not be able to be a rich follower of Christ.
We need to ask why did Jesus command such thing? The truth is that Jesus saw pride in the rich young man. The rich young man took pride in his wealth and his obedience to the laws. Humility is what Jesus was trying to teach the young man. Wealth and religious pride corrupts. The young man basically said "look at me, I obey all the laws, I am very wealthy, I am above everyone else. See how perfect I am?" That's the pride that religious people often possess. Add to it his wealth that even makes him boast more. The rich young man feels like god among men. So Jesus humbled him by commanding him to give up his wealth....but this the rich young man failed and he was humbled.
All throughout the NT those who are wealthy are warned. It’s more moral to be poor.
Time-stamps
1:50, 2:15 - Luke 8
2:30 - She still had a job
2:55 -
3:02 - Acts 16 and Lydia
3:14, 3:56, 4:16 - Acts 4
4:43 - Mark 10 and the rich man
7:45, 8:18, 8:30 - A different interpretation
Hi Mike, I’ve been blessed by your ministry. Thanks for being a thoughtful and careful thinker who desires to accurately handle God’s word and thereby glorify Jesus. Praying for you and your family!
God's been blessing you friend through this ministry.
Freely you have received.
Thank you, Brother Mike. You stuck to the context of the text and encouraged me in the Lord. Thank Yahweh for His saving grace.
Mike, I appreciate you and your teaching and for how much time you spend in order to accurately handle the Word of God. I did note, however, that you said that Joanna, the wife of Chuza, Herod's steward, kept her job in order to support Jesus' ministry. The antecedent of Herod's steward is clearly Chuza in this verse, not Joanna. Actually, this is a list of people who are present at the time, and the "others" who were contributing out of their own means, could have been a completely separate group, unrelated to the women or the twelve. This would be more consistent with the Lord's own call for women to be "workers at home", to "get married, bear children and keep house" and to "be subject to their own husbands," as opposed to being subject to, say, Herod. These women were most likely along, supporting Jesus and the disciples by cooking their food, washing and mending their clothing, and these types of ministries that are typical of Biblical women throughout Scripture.
he Parable of the Hidden Treasure
44 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and hid; and for joy over it he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.
The Parable of the Pearl of Great Price
45 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking beautiful pearls, 46 who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had and bought it.
These passages seem to be pretty clear, as does John The Baptist saying “Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.”
I am not sure how necesary it is, but charity is certianitly not optional, and helping those who are in need is necesary
“How hard it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God! Indeed it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is a rich man to enter the kingdom of God” (Luke 18:24-25).
Jesus said "swear not". James said "for your life is a vapor". Now, Jesus condemns adultery and financial contracts as of the evil one. Maybe this has something to do with the whore in Revelation 18 and her "fornication" and "sorcery". Bottom line, if you need a contract to mediate between parties concerning lending and borrowing, then it is of the evil one as Jesus says "whatever is more than these (yea and nay) is of the evil one. Now these so called Christians will preach and rail all day against the poor man who "struggles" with porn and Paul Washer will tell them they have not even gotten to the first rung of Christianity. But, these hypocrites would never receive Jesus' command to "swear not" and repent of their mortgages. LOL! Hypocrites.
This doesn’t mean that wealthy people can’t be saved.
2 Timothy chapter 6
(The whole chapter is geared toward those who minister)
17 Instruct those who are rich in this present world not to be conceited or to set their hope on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly supplies us with all things to enjoy. 18 Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good [q]works, to be generous and ready to share, 19 storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life.
Thank God for you for that scripture! It is 1st Timothy 6:17 though. That's a good word for Americans! Be blessed sister!
Good passage, but that reference is 1 Timothy 6 not 2 Timothy.
Wow, this is what I have been struggling with; my desire to have God on my mind in everything I buy, enjoy, think about, and spend my time on. This video gave me a lot of clarity. Thanks, as always, Pastor Mike!
THIS IS SO GOD! I was literally just reading through Acts and came across that “communal living” passage in chapter 4 this Saturday, and was asking God about it like “what the heck is this? This is so challenging!” And here you are right on time with a good answer!
Yeah, I see nothing wrong with Christian’s living together in a community… as long as it’s to encourage one another and build up one another so that they may go out into the world with their jobs and or other activities in order to reach the world for the gospel.
If people are wanting to live in a commune so they can hide and “hunker down” and won’t share the gospel or halfway to reach out to the community around them …. I think that is the wrong attitude..
And sadly, I wish I could say I’ve seen Christian “communes” or friends or people I’ve known that wish to live in them have the attitude like in the New Testament.
Sadly, most of them, it seems they want to hide and not have to interact with the “sinful world” and keep themselves “separated “.
The separation between the world and us is not a physical one. It is a spiritual, emotional and mental one. With us making different decisions on the external, but not necessarily living so far apart from the world that we can’t go, reach them for the gospel.
I think the Amish teeter awful close to the fence of hiding rather than reaching others for the gospel … even though I completely understand their desire to jerk off the modern world and it’s amenities…
@@Jaxmusicgal23The Amish need Jesus. There is a documentary of an Amish family that broke free and started sharing the Gospel with Ray Comfort resources.
From his ministry Living Waters.
They take people through the good person test.
You can still find it on RUclips.
Just search for
Amish gives out Christian tracts
@@Jaxmusicgal23How many souls are witnessed to by the Amish, and how many are saved by the shed blood of Jesus Christ?
Me too TYLER just read that passage a few days ago and was pondering it.
"Jesus did not command all of his followers to sell all of their possessions. That gives comfort only to the kind of people to whom He would issue that command." -Robert Gundry's Commentary on Luke 18's rich young ruler
Mike, I’m not a believer but something strange happened to me that I can’t explain and I think you should hear it. Last night I had a dream that felt so real. A bright light hovered above me and with a calm but powerful voice said to me that a moderately successful RUclips preacher named Mike Winger (don’t worry I was already familiar with your work) would lead the next Great Awakening but first he would have to sell all his belongings and live a life of destitution. For now this is all that the light bearer would allow me to reveal to you but in good time I might be permitted to catch you up on the rest that was said. Good luck, and dare I say, Godspeed.
Praise the Lord for the redemption given. I got saved some years ago, and since then I have become an avid researcher of the Bible.
I've gathered a lot of information that I synthesized and condensed on my channel.
I wish I could've found details like this somewhere else. I guess I'll just do it myself.
Why are u shorts whispering?? That’s soooo creepy!
Thanks, Pastor, that was my understanding. Pastor, do you recommend a self guided Bible study/education to dig deeper in God's word? Burt 57 years.
Good video, Mike. One thing that has occurred to me, though. The Bible doesn't tell us, but if the young man had given up everything, it's possible that Jesus would have eventually blessed him in the same way that Job was blessed after the trials he went through.
What a great message. Thank you so much for breaking this down. ❤
I think we are called to be good stewards of everything.
Mike Winger, you're my favorite Bible teacher. Thank you for your work, dedication and heart to teach us. ❤
God bless you
The gospel is that I am so sinful that Jesus had to die for me, yet so loved and valued that Jesus was glad to die for me. This leads to deep humility and confidence at the same time. I can't feel superior to anyone, and yet I have nothing to prove to anyone. -Tim Keller
Interesting line from the Didache: "When the apostle goes away, let him take nothing but bread until he lodges. But if he asks for money, he is a false prophet."
Oh, another new movement. Lovely.
🐍 them snakes tho.....
If it's not one thing it's another.
Thank you Mike. Here is a question which I have seen been practiced in most respected churches.
1.) Churches nowadays uses this to enforce something called communal living. Which I don't have issues with. And by extension place demand on your money. I issue now here is the idea around placing demands. The leaders are the one who places the demand.
2.)Is Firstfruit a new testament practice?
3.)What do you have to say about rejecting those imposed demands mentioned above in the first question. If i decide not to give, where do i stand. Knowing that I'm not giving simply because I'm not led to
Jesus commended the tithing of the Pharisees but also called them to task for neglecting the weightier matters of the law. What I find interesting about Matthew 23:23-24, is the humour inherent in Jesus's rebuke: they were nit-picking about straining out gnats (on the unclean lists of Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14) while being oblivious to having swallowed a camel, also on the unclean food list. Don't get too hung up about rule keeping or being picky about what you eat or how much you put in the plate. What's important is that you do what you can willingly, not out of obligation. (2 Corinthians 9:7) . God desires mercy, not sacrifice. (Hosea 6:6, Matthew 12:7)
Thank you so much for the great video - so eye-opening and I feel like I finally understand about 'gouging the eye' Bible verse which used to confuse me a little. God bless!
Loved the ending! Discipleship 101!~ It all belongs to Him, you are called to be a good Steward of it. Thanks for this one. Very well done
Mike can you please do an in depth on the rapture.
You’re the only pastor that presents all the facts and scripture from both sides and allows us to get our own perspective. The church’s are so divided on this issue
Excellent teaching, Pastor Mike!
I noticed that Jesus specifically calls out the Commandments that he KNEW this young rich man had diligently kept, as he said, from his youth.
That is like so many today, thinking they're "good with God" or such because they don't see themselves as really bad sinners. Even adultery and taking the Lord's name in vain are couched in language of 'everyone does.'
This young man had to be presented that the values he held dear in his life, his wealth and possession, meant more to him than the eternal life he'd originally inquired about. Hopefully the reality of the fact of that eventually hit him, and led him to repentance that these things were greater, put before, God in his life.
I do believe that is a lesson all of us should heed, and be alert and aware of ANYTHING squeezing God to the side in our lives. That needed childlike faith deserves our attention and protection.
Great teaching brother Mike. Ive wondered about this for a while. Really clears things up
We need to notice whether a passage is descriptive or prescriptive, to avoid errors in behaviour. That's why we need a good teacher!
In Jesus's mind the world was ending soon. He told his disciples they wouldn't make it through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man returned. Of what use is money when the end is nigh? You can't take it with you!
@@ryanrevland4333not so sure about that first sentence
@@quantumfrost9467 Based on Jesus’s own words, that is the consensus of biblical scholars. Jesus foresaw the Kingdom of God being established within the lifetime of His disciples. Here’s a few verses that erase all doubt:
Matthew 10:23 _When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes._
Matthew 16:27 _For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”_
Matthew 24:34 _Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened._
That doesn’t mean we have to stop being Christians. It just means Jesus was wrong about the world ending in the first century. Oh well. There’s still plenty of moral value in the Gospels.
Um...no
@@ryanrevland4333 This prophecy about the Disciples not making it through all the towns of the Tribes of Israel before He Returns is both a current and future event - mostly Jews have been barred from reading Isaiah 53 and the entire NT, they are the last 'tribe & tongue' to be convicted and converted x
Weird that we have a "prosperity gospel" and "poverty gospel" now...
🤔 whoa.....crasy....
Indeed. It shows us two false extremes born out of the same fallacy: that we somehow "earn" God's grace by what we do financially, either by being wildly successful or by being totally disinterested in the world. We are to live in the world but not be of the world. A good teaching on stewardship is foundational to a Christian's life so that we neither let our possessions become more important to us than God (it's his stuff anyway; we just manage it for the benefit of the kingdom) nor that we are careless, wasteful, or making others provide for us when we are capable of providing for our own needs.
Christians can justify, and have justified, tons of contradictory positions.
No surprise here.
@@sidwhiting665
Well said!
I had a conversation with someone recently who is legalistic. God wants for us to have balance, not live in those types of extremes.
When I made scripture a priority back in 2016, one of the first things I did was make a list of everything God commands us to follow, from the OT and the NT. I started with the 10 commandments and just kept adding to it.
Well the list ended up being so long I was having a hard time with it, just a lot to be intentional about. I had never tried to obey the Sabbath but I started trying and it was an utter failure. I couldn't. But thankfully my godfather shared an article with me and that helped. I didn't know that Jesus was our Sabbath rest, so it wasn't required, but we can if we're led to, or simply choose to.
I was so thankful when I learned that Jesus boiled everything down to 2 simple Commandments; love God fully, love your neighbor as one's self. That is something we can do with God's help and grace!
We should love God with complete devotion and passion, but what God ultimately requires is not burdensome. God makes things simple, but humanity makes it complicated.
God bless you and keep you always! 🙂
Yea, the prosperity gospel are all those hypocrites who ignore Jesus' command to "swear not" while they suck the Paps of the Jewish Bankers lol. With their mortgages and life insurance policies and stock portfolios, who needs a "prosperity gospel". Guess they will just explain it away in some systematic theology textbook. But Jesus said, "the Son of Man hath not where to lay his head."
Someone might have already brought this one up but... Luke 19:9 in the story of Zacchaeus, he tells Jesus that he'll give up 1/2 of his goods, and Jesus responds "...Today salvation has come to this house..." so, another verse that shows clearly that Jesus isn't asking for ALL our your wealth!
To be successful poor as a Christian, you must:
1. Kill covetousness. Kill the desire to gather up and store for yourself. It is evil and is mammon worship. Don't WANT to be rich
2. Be financial prudent. Don't waste the Lord's resources. Don't be frivolous and extravagant for no reason. Everything we have belongs to the Lord and us for a purpose
3. Enquire of the Lord what HIS resources are for. Remember, they are HIS resources, we are merely keepers
4. Be a cheerful giver, be willing to give everything you have to help others, especially those who are of the faith
Brother Sensei Mike, let me just preface this with saying you’re awesome and leave it at that. Is there somewhere I can posible get Bible thinker merch? Possibly a T-shirt? Thank you for all that you do.
Excellent handling of this topic Mike!!
"All who believed were together and had all things in common" Acts 2:44. "They sold their possessions and gave to those in need". Community, not poverty.
Who defines need?
That’s the leaders. No such thing as communism. That’s y the grumbling started about the Greek (newly converted) widows not getting as much as the others. Thus the deacons were thence employed.
The Pilgrims tried it too. No initiative to do more, the community was failing. “No need for my wife to wash another man’s shirts”.
Until we have stopped with self ambition, we can not live communally. Families are always going to want more than need for their kids. Music lessons, field trips, mentors, excellent food, new computer, etc.
No one gets the Life Believers are called to live. We just add counting apostles to our math worksheets and a class in “Missions” to our high school curr. Our whole reason for being is to worship and testify!
Come out from among her, My ppl! Come out from the Great Whore, Babylon.
Here's my personal belief from what I read in our Bible. I don't think I'd you're well off, that you have to get rid of everything. We all come different walks of life. Some rich, some poor. Some knowing the Lord most of their life, and some newborn again Christians. Nothing is to be more important than our Lord. Now, if you're well off, you should help others. But that's your choice to make. I totally agree with you, Pastor Mike, about the passage.
Money is just a number until you do something with it. And all should be done for the Lord.
AMEN! So well done, I often wondered about this verse and knew it wasnt directed at every believer but could never articulate it in the way you just did, this is a rich teaching, thank you!
He just wasn't just a rich man. He was a ruler. He would've still held his position, still been earning his salary. Wouldn't do it. It's not about the money. It's the attachment to material, worldly things
If I sold everything I had and gave it to the poor…………I would then be among the poor.
Clearly it’s not something that applies to everyone. No different than saying that everyone can be a pastor, or a CEO or a basketball player.
Thanks Mike.
As an American, born into a well off life, I genuinely felt guilt over being well off when I came to faith.
I wanted to sell everything, live off whatever I got that day and just preach the Gospel.
But I've learned that the Lord is sort of continually saying;
"I don't want your stuff...I already own everything you have... I want your heart."
It's not about shunning any sort of material benefit, it's about being sold out to the right One, Jesus,
and not your current worldly situation.
Having that "secret to be content in all things, whether I have much, or little..."
All these "heroes" talking about the maximum. Everyone wants to "change the world" and "be that christian".
But doing good according to Jesus was to be human; to share. You have 2 parts? You give away one unless you have a family to feed.
The more demanding commands were for the apostles and disciples alone. Context makes that very clear.
All we need to do is share a meal or buy one for a stranger in need. Tell him Jesus loves him and share the Gospel shortly.
The rest we give into God's hands through prayer. Infact; honest and continual prayer is the most important of all these things.
My two cents:
1 John 3:17 If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? 18 Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.
I suppose we are to keep enough so that we have all that we need, then for the rest we give to brother and sister in need.
You know what would be a great resource on this issue, and indeed all issues relating to us Christians? The writings of the Holy Fathers and the Saints. Luckily, we have them, so we don't need to agonize over the question.
Great study. I've known some "anabaptists" that were all about being homeless, no marriage, & being a single male evangelist "b/c that's what Jesus was". I would love to hear your thoughts on Christian groups like the Bruderhof...
“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for they shall see God.”
I think you have a good analysis of the scripture there. I don't think it's wrong for an individual to take a vow of poverty if they feel called to do so, but I don't think it's something everyone needs to do. I think at the basic level, everyone has an obligation to put some effort and charity (helping others) into life. The effort may be a job or some kind of duty. Not everyone can do the same job though. If someone gets rich doing the job they do, I think it's fine, but like you described, they shouldn't covet that wealth. Everyone can be charitable by lending a helping hand when they can (and it doesn't necessarily have to be a monetary donation to do so).
Says you
Wonderful! I was listening recently to a guy connected to an extremist “Christian” monastic sect who repeatedly implies if you are not poor then you cannot follow Jesus.
Mike ,I love your balance teaching on the subject. As a missionary to Haiti, poorest country in the Americas however I have Christian friends with money and refuse to help me feed the poor. I guess they don't read Mathew 25: 31-46
Evangelist Roger Mansour
Amen..I just got that 💡 moment. Glory to God
I think the main question is basically; what is stopping you from following Jesus? If its wealth give it up, if its friends give them up, if its sin let yourself die to it. Let nothing come between you and Christ. As jesus said elsewhere:
Matthew 10:37-38 KJV
[37] He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. [38] And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
We need the source of life more than life itself.
When my husband sold our first little house I was a bit surprised but I trusted his walk with God, and he gave the money to a fellow worker in God's vineyard, and that was 47 years ago and this is about the second time in all this time that I am thinking about it, but the Lord has never failed us yet. A misconception about this verse is, yes you sell what you can and help out the Lord's work, but then you carry on earning more. It's not that you give everything away and now sit in poverty. No, you carry on working and soon you have more.
@mariananortje6938,
Thank you for sharing your story sister! That's really neat! Where God guides, He also provides!
God bless and keep you and yours always sis! 🙂
We must be extremely discerning when determining what ministry we donate to. There are unfortunately many hucksters of the Gospel out there. Know exactly what your money will go for so that we don’t waste God’s provision.
I really like how Mike brings out re: communal living that these people had travelled to Jerusalem and wanted to hang around and be 'schooled.' Also the point that Jesus did not say, "Go and give to the poor all that you have, and that will save you." In fact, I'm not sure I've ever heard the points about Peter not having sold his boat and gear, women keeping their houses/jobs, etc. etc. That's saying a lot, as I'm 63, been 'in church' all my life and done LOTS of studying...
I agree with what you say Mike. I also think the lesson applies to all of us, although we may not all be convicted of the same sin. We should keep it in mind because we can easily be the same as this rich man, especially in America.
Well stated! Can't think of a better way to say giving away all of your stuff isn't what God may want, but to not be attached to material things more than you are attached to Jesus!
says you, "I have learned to abound and to suffer poverty, I can do ALL THINGS through CHRIST
Love the parallel between the rich man’s riches and the Apostle Paul’s “filthy rags” comment.
Would love to hear your take on why the disciples were “amazed” and answered, “Then who can be saved?” when Jesus said, "How hard it will be for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God!" Mk. 10:23
The rich have all they could ever want. Why would they ever want Jesus? Jesus was making those horses drink water by salting their oats.
I love how you explain things !
And
You are Biblical knowledgeable. You teach the Bible, sir, as is !!
Thank you so much.
I have been watching you for about 2 years, maybe 3.
My husband and kids say the two things I would probably not give up are
My books , because I love studying God's word😊
And my
Pictures
I agree with the book statement, and yes, it would be difficult to let go of my picture they are my memories, but I like to think I would
In order to keep the greatest commandment one must be willing to remove any obstacle which may prevent or hinder that. But once the disciple experiences this principle he obtains the mind set that will be with him forever, that being, never own or have anything in your life you cannot walk away from.
hmmm...... just when i was starting to 'think biblically about everything,' you push the idea that the bible doesn't really mean what it says......... now i'm confused 😕
So insightful, thank you. What Bible software would you recommend. Thanking you kindly.
Glad you got those 8 more accounts subscribed.
I truly appreciate how you handle each question/topic that you come across.
I lived for 18 months without any income, mostly in Costa Rica. I didn't sell my truck I just didn't have any money for gas and I traveled without it. It was an experience that greatly increased my faith in God and put my mind at rest. Many years later I still needed to have a small fortune stolen from me and with much prayer, come to the place of being able to offer my cloak after my coat was stolen. God takes us all only to greater peace. He never punishes us.
I never thought of money as a sin in my life. I still see those experiences as expanding my ability to love and forgive.
Great testimony but i disagree with your last sentence. clearly God will punish us when we mess up. Scripture says He scourges every son He receives
"But he who is forgiven little, loves little." Luke 7:47
U lost me at needing to have a fortune stolen from you... sounds super fishy and made up.
@@arcguardian Why would I make that up? For youtube fame?
Every experience in life is so we can learn lessons. Earth is a classroom.
@@robertdouglas8895Thanks for sharing your story. I will say that sometimes, we create the hard lessons in life and they arent dictated by God. As in, had we listened to sound wisdom from the beginning, we wouldn't need to have a catastrophic or life changing experience.
Sometimes, we humans are our own worst enemy and create a hard life for ourselves. We make poor choices that then result in terrible outcomes. God can make good of ANY situation, for certain! But that doesn't mean that he ordained that situation, if that makes sense. Hope the best for you brother! God bless!
It's about willingness. If and when you are asked to give up everything, family or possessions, will you? The man was sad because he knew he was too selfish not just to give it up, but too selfish to change.
Stellar. Help me Lord Jesus
1 Timothy 5:8 states pretty clearly that we are at least expected to provide for our household, which would include food, clothing, shelter, etc.
I think the point Jesus was making was none of us can ever live up to all of the Law: there will always be something that we cannot do and will fail in.
In this case, it was that this guy didn't want to give up his things. For other people, the "one thing" we'd fail at would be something else
If that's the point Jesus was making then none of us could follow Jesus - just like that guy couldn't do it and went away. You are right that we fail at certain things sometimes, but we still follow Jesus - unlike this guy. The analogy just doesn't work, whereas Mike's explanation fits a lot better, imo.
Exactly.
Just like I would never drink any kind of alcoholic beverage around somebody who used to have a drinking problem ….
Or if I know, a man has had trouble with lust or looking at women I’m careful to what I wear and how I act (I I’m careful anyway but I’m extra careful).
Or if somebody is struggling with shopping or buying too many things, I’m not gonna encourage him to go out with me .
If someone is having trouble losing weight, I don’t offer them an extra piece of cake and encourage them to overindulge.
It’s not just a one size fits all rulebook .
To one it may be sin into another it may not based on their convictions and personal struggles .
There is outright sin, and God made those very very clear .
We must stop trying to make rules for everybody else, based on our own personal convictions and struggles .
We should encourage one another and avoid encouraging others to indulge in their struggles and sin… some of the sins will be similar because there are some sins that are universal across mankind…. Others are personal..
We need to focus on ourselves, and our walk personally more than we admonished others . so when the time comes to admonish someone or encourage them to walk away from something, we know already the steps they need to take because we have had to take them ourselves
@@friedrichrubinsteinI think you may have missed the point of the Original Poster. The point is that God’s Law is perfect… however, we aren’t.
James says “if you keep the whole Law and stumble in one point, you’re guilty of the entire Law.”
That explains why we need Jesus.
@@QZigZaggexactly. The rich young ruler insisted all these things he had kept from his youth. But he had not, and Jesus revealed where he lacked. He put his wealth before God, thusly not keeping the whole law. All was not lost, Jesus told him what to do and come follow Him. The rich young ruler then declined and walked away.
That was not the point at all, and you don't understand what Christ was doing. Christ told the nobleman that love towards God and love towards neighbor were STILL the 2 great commandments. If Christ was trying to tell him that he shouldn't try to live up to everything the Law required, then He would've told the man that he was in error by trying to live by the Law instead telling him to address his covetousness by selling his possessions.
I wonder how many christians (including myself) are actually able to get rid of everything they own. It is easy to say I would certainly do that. But when it would come to it, I worry if I would actually be willing to do that. But perhaps when Jesus would literally stand before you asking it, it would be easier to follow than when you have a vague dream telling you to sell it all.
Difficult!
So pastor Mike you think that in the tribulation you’ll be able to have wealth? Buy and sell and still follow Christ?
The reason why I think this topic is important is, because most Americans really think they are poor if they cannot go out to eat everyday, and afford all the subscriptions they want. Our views are skewed significantly. We need some perspective on our wealth. We have a lot and a lot more than the rest of the world has. I know for myself I loved things way more than I should and got rid of a lot, because they became an idol. I coveted and it was a problem.
Pastor Mike, the LDS church tells their church to tithe 10% before a member feeds their family or pay their bills, if even if they have no money and they are struggling. What are your thoughts ?
Your thoughts on this cult church?
1. Don’t give money to false religions
2. Feed your family first. Giving is a biblical command. “Giving 10% to your local church” is not. My wife and I tend to give 10% to the local church and give to other ministries and causes beyond that but this is not a command that one must obey before they feed their own family.
@@MikeWinger thank you my feeling as well. Really enjoy your channel.
It's not a church. LDS is not a Christian organization.
The fact that you don't agree with the teaching itself doesn't make the LDS a "cult". God should ALWAYS come first, especially because the money is His anyway. If He comes first, then everything else will fall into place. This statement of yours' shows a lack of faith. All God requires is a measly 10%, and ppl think God is demanding 90%. Christ said that God is to be given what He requires. There is no debating what someone is supposed to do.
Mike, the main question is simply this: Do we love money more than God? I would also ask…Do we love money more than people?
Never thought of it as a light bulb moment but it certainly was learning that I have nothing worthy of eternal life save the grace and mercy of God and His righteousness imputed on to me in according to His will not my filthy rag attempts to earn anything.
Besides so many biblical passages where we see faithful believers, still with property and some wealth, commonsense has to come into play too. If all believers sold all they had to give to the poor, then they would have to freeload off of their non-believing family/friends to survive. Or all live in extreme poverty and not be able to do anything.
Jesus commanded his disciples to teach others to observe all that he commanded of them.