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Tactics Ogre Reborn: Meditations on End Game Options, and Learning What's Fun For You
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- Опубликовано: 10 июн 2023
- This is all just a drop in the bucket, but a lot of learning to enjoy the end and post game comes down to just trying new things, even if you're already comfortable. Many burn out trying to stubbornly refuse to change or tinker, or spend their time leaving angry comments instead of using anything other than a DPS class. There's so many units, so many options, and it's way more fun to have more toys to play with!
I'm curious why you consider this game an "immersive sim 2nd" @2:37
The amount of little details it sprinkled in there just for interaction. Spells being boosted by ambient weather, people bailing on boss fights because of your reputation, the story adapting to all kinds of random stuff just because. Realistically would anyone save Catiua just to have her suffer an accident for a free gun? No, but it's there just for more world interaction. Most games wouldn't bother giving your units individual luck mechanics, and even the little physical details, like ramming with a shield being a reliable Knockback...but that Knockback being hindered if they're standing in water... there's so much of this little stuff that just makes stuff feel tangible. To me an Immersive Sim is a game that you can poke and prod at for different responses dang near indefinitely, being characterized by constant "oh shoot, I'm surprised someone bothered making that" moments. Like...how you can't recruit if someone's not in their normal mental state, or impaired verbally in some way. I always bring it up, but one of those will always be the Boat for me. Most games would just skip it, not make a scene where you're reminded that you definitely were responsible for that 😄. Hope that helps, I just know that I'm drawn to New Vegas and Deus Ex for the same reasons I love Tactics Ogre and Armored Core...and it's those world reaction details. I love that stuff.
@@CoffeePotato I see, I also love those "can't believe they bothered making that" moments in games and tangible actions that change outcomes like in Deus Ex, etc. Thanks for the detailed response!
I do really enjoy recruiting and playing monster units. They are all regular units in my lineups, and my favorites are octopus, cyclops and fairies. They are fun to play with, unlike warlocks.
Honestly, as someone who hasn't experienced Tactics Ogre endgames yet, this is a relief to hear. I enjoy using my units for different roles quite a lot in this game and I was afraid the endgame would go as it does in so many other games of its ilk: You get some insane power boost and suddenly DPS is the only thing that stays worthwhile. It's nice to hear that it doesn't have to be that.
I've been using three gryphons for most of the game so far, and they never were in it for the damage. Rather, I send them in as decoy and disruption so that my actual army can move in unimpeded. The lack of armor (I assume) makes them frequent targets of the AI, but their huge health pool makes them not care. It's a lovely non-DPS role and they singlehandedly won me Barnicia recently because they pulled away half of Lanselot's guard. Or poison mages: Poison is great DPS, yes, but I actually find myself poisoning undesirable targets frequently, just so I can prevent Ease carrying priests from actually healing off damage. I love non-DPS roles like that.
Btw, you opened my eyes regarding dragons. I always *wanted* zo use them because mass-status always sounded nice (even back on PSP) but the fact it wasn't guaranteed (and expensive!) always kept me from using them. But that was before I learned 100% hitrate = 100% status rate. It just never clicked with me that Dragon Eye is exactly that. I'm gonna have lots of fun with that now.
I come from monster collectors like Pokemon (the customization is what pulled me into tactics games) and I always am kinda sad when monsters end up more of a lackluster novelty in these games. Finding actual good roles for them is very fulfilling as a result.
Plus, they can tag team in interesting ways. The Breach dragons open up, the Weaken dragons get bigger numbers and take away their offense, when the scaly Pikachus show up to lock down everything even more. The stagger dragons are there early waiting for that moment when the octopi drop Falsestrike....but dang it, I saw Falseflight actually save someone the other day, and it was heartwarming.
Still, it's great to hear stuff like this, I think you'll have a ton of fun with that mindset! When the game first launched, there was a big wave of those folks who wanted to do the expected DPS situation, and the results were everything from burnout to actually succeeding at the cost of ungodly amounts of time. It's where we started seeing all of those "you can't get anything done without grinding!" Reviews and such. Folks will be stubborn.
@@CoffeePotato I sure hope I can keep that mindset! I did a couple more floors of PotD (sadly ran out of items because I forgot to restock so I had to withdraw after floor 12) since I made that comment and happened upon my first "loot pinata" enemy outside the Rudlum fight - a crystal dragon. The thing basically cured poison every time it moved because it came with Ease II, making DPSing it down the only option, really. I did surround it on a poison tile and stacked Breached and Frightened and all that, which worked well enough, but... yeah. Are all of them that resilient to poison specifically or was that just bad luck for my first one?
Thanks for the video. The gameplay was especially instructive here. I need to watch these carefully because I am still in chapter 3 and dont have access to quite as many tricks as folks in the endgame do ("a sleep bow finisher, oh I wish I had it!").
Just aside, if you're feeling tired AND coughing a lot AND start complaining that things dont have a flavor... Your allergies might have evolved into a viral infection. 🤞 for you to feel better.
Oh, no worries, that was just some really lame tea. It was on clearance for a reason, and allergies just hit a bit harder because I'm usually cleaning the tree droppings out from everything around here.
You actually should already have a sleep now finisher, it's just the second one, Slumber Shot. While they're not guaranteed, the odds are decent enough to keep a light bow around and throw it out as an attempt to stop someone before they act.
@@CoffeePotato I've yet to have the union level go above 19, so I believe I'm capped? No one has said this to me but I observe weapon skills appear to be capped at character/union level.
Also, glad to hear.
They are, must be really early C3, then. You can actually break the level cap if you hire any units higher than you, and then deploy them in a random fight.
A fun way to deal with all is getting birdmans with bows and casts and putting them in high places where the enemy cant reach them and just kill all,doesnt work in all maps but when it works is fun,also if map has a lot of void tiles you can just get birdmans and put shields on them and throw everyone off the map, in the floating ruins works quite good
Bird is the word. The word is also murder 🫡
Ahhh!!! So happy to see another video today. _watches it_
_"Putting the right tool in at the right time,"_ is what she said.
_"Get yourself a flame dragon, muh dude!"_ Okay, will do.
I invented the head drop shot, back in the PSX days. You're welcome.
Thank You! Your service is very appreciated, which is also what she said, due to the right tools being applied, apparently.
"If youre dealing with one of those loot pintatãs in the POTD, simply put, use a Hydra" couldn't agree more. Dragon eye, dragon scale, steadfast and toxic breath is a skillset that can kill anything. numbers are for wimps yo
(edited to get the quote vaguely correct)
genuinely, dragon scale is THE ability to use and abuse. it's flexibility incarnate. use the enemy against the enemy. what could be better
Poisoning the enemy to use the enemy's lunch against them too, and then using a Juggernaut and Paradigm Shift to use their "oh, I obey laws of time, I guess" nonsense against them too.
honestly, I watched a couple of ur videos before playing this game "proper" and it convinced me to give beast/Dragon units a chance and I've never looked back. the animals are the real specialists of the games units, all of them. if you need one particular job done for a strategy, there's a beast that evolved to do that specific job. if someone reading hasn't given them a chance, please do. there isn't a feeling like getting stuck on a map (the one to save Bayin comes to mind for me) and just finding a perfect answer if you look. just give the death chickens or the air bomber lizards a try, they will NOT disappoint if you let them have a go
@@CoffeePotatohow dare they obey the laws of time, and physics, too. A mistake that will cost them, most definitely
7:37 Lol. I have to get one now for this line alone.
Oh, it gets better. There's a more or less unique one in the Cressida sidequest. A Dark Element Zombie chicken. Aka the BBC. Which definitely stands for Big Black Chicken, we swear.
@@CoffeePotato 😂😂😂😂
If we ever get Ogre 8 I hope we get some zany tile effects. I think it could be really funny if all the dragons got special move abilities ala lava walk for the fire dragon. Maybe Air dragon gets to fly for a bit lol.
That sounds kinda neat. I feel like I've seen that in one of these old western irpgs, like Lords of Magic and such.
I think the no incap condition really makes the potd experience worse. You need to encourage players to roll with failure in every angle you can think of, otherwise they tunnelvision to the simplest safe method(summons)
Yeah, no Incap has always sucked, I'm not sure why they went with that over the No Chariot titles. The only time No Incap was interesting was when Japan invaded Korea, and holy crap what a defense play.
What’s the music from the opening of this video?
Escape, from Vagrant Story.
@@CoffeePotato thanks!!
How are you liking Sherri as a Terror Knight?
Works well, it's just funny to have her in a role where she wakes up and terrifies people nearby.
I have been playing the postgame for like, 100+ hours, and I still haven't been able to get any draconic magics, absolutely zero tier 2 summons, no necromancy spells at all, and no tier four generic spells at all!!! My drop rates for gear, relics, spells, weapons, and items in general, are all practically zero, even after THAT much time!!! So my units can't really DO anything they're supposed to do, even at max level, with multiple maxed out weapon skills!!! That's why I am positively hating the postgame. At least repeating the multiple paths is narratively fun. Screw this game's drop rates!
Well that's statistically improbable as all hell, where are you looking for them? Drop rates individually ain't much, but they're scattered about so much that you'll usually get a few just on accident. What post game stuff are you doing?
@@CoffeePotato POTD, all floors, San Bronsa, the Pirate's Graveyard, and the Wildwood. ALL multiple times, and hardly any drops at freaking all. I even redid each elemental temple six separate times, and nothing but a handful of low level relics IN TOTAL.
Almost all the good / final spells are in San Bronsa Ruins and the Floating Ruins above them. You pretty much need to use Chariot Tarot to ensure the 1 or 2 enemies per map that CAN drop the specific item or spell you want, will actually drop the Loot Bag (and the Bag will be the item / spell you wanted) !
Also, especially in Palace of the Dead, you’ll see the drop rates scale up from 10% to 40%, for the specific relic weapon / armor / spell. A Made-up Example might be “Rune Axe ~ 10% drop from Lizard Hoplite in square 11x, 15y on Floor-85”. But then by Floor-89, you’ll see “Rune Axe 40% drop from Zombie Wizard”, etc etc…
So you basically want to do the target farming / retreat / repeating on the floors that have the item you want at a 40% Rate, not the lesser ones (30, 20, or 10).
Good luck, Steph ! 🙂
@@AlekTrev006 Thank you. I read guides and spreadsheets for most of those, and I tried target farming, but they never dropped for me. I even used the Chariot, try a different tactic trick to generate new drops, and it never worked for me. I tried playing maps over and over, searching for things, and building teams specifically tailored to farming certain drops, and they just never dropped for me. Seriously, I have done so many hours of research and farming, just with nothing to show for it.
@@stephhanley3167 You may already know this but even just doing the same exact attack on a unit but from one tile over than your last attempt could be the difference between a unit dropping something useless like linen pants vs. a sidhe ring or rune axe. I sometimes have to chariot scum a single turn up to 8-10 times just to get that statistically 40% drop rate item to actually drop. I recently been chariot scumming floor 26 of potd for sidhe rings. Sometimes it takes way too many turns to get a unit to see if it's the right item bag that dropped because of turn orders so if in that case I am struggling for multiple chariot resets, I decide to postpone the kill until turn order is convenient enough to make it so that I am not going back 5-7 turns to re-do the kill for RNG.
Charm and petrify are your best friend for distracting enemies while you focus down the unit you are trying to farm a specific drop from before retreating.
Have(n’t) you done CODA 4 with (stat) charmless units only before?
Mostly, but I couldn't delete stats off the trio