You are right. The edge guards on the Engage Pursuits are fragile; however, I can’t emphasize enough how comforting it is knowing that Engage paddles come with a lifetime warranty and that Engage is very good about honoring claims.
Lifetime on the Engage is a key selling point....I have the MX (not 6.0) and love the paddle....touch is better than other 12-13mm paddles and power is definitely more noticeable....i don't have 600 bucks to test all 3 but this Engage checked all the boxes for me so far
He’s right about the crbn1. When I was on I was unstoppable. Everything came back at my opponents with pace and spin and i got to everything due to the long handle. However, for as many games as i was dominant, i played an equal amount of sub-par terrible games. Games where the ball would just die off my paddle due to miss hits. It was very frustrating to do so well but then lose it all the next match. For that reason, i replaced my crbn1 with the crbn2. The crbn2 is the most reliable paddle ive played with. I get so much control. The power is severely lacking so i will probably add lead tape but still its a great player friendly paddle
Hey guys, I think you do a fantastic job on the reviews love that you’re using actual science and numbers in your comparisons. Hoping to see a Joola review soon, hottest paddle on peoples minds since johns jumped and not many good reviews out there right now. Keep up the good work.
So, just hit with the Engage MX 6.0 and the Electrum E this morning, liking the MX a bit better right now. Went through a number of drills with them, serving, dinks, returns... I fell like I hit the sweet spot more with the MX. The dinks were pretty well controlled and the returns were solid. Since I was leaning towards the MX I played with it a bit more, so tomorrow I'm going to go hit 400-500 serves with both and see how they feel. The grip on the E is a tad shorter and enough that it WAS noticeable and I do not like the ribbed grip either Chris. Over grip did take care of that. So I felt like I couldn't get as good a grip on the E v.s the MX 6.0... More to come. Great analysis Chris!
I can speak for the CRBN 16mm on its Power, Control, and Spin. It's an all around great paddle. Grip is very good for those transitioning from tennis like myself.
Thanks for this! In your other video where you tested 27 paddles, the Engage came in at 1588PRM, I believe... What accounts for the change in RPM in this test? What IYO, is the spinniest paddle for singles play? Is there a spinny, "long" / oversize paddle?
Just wanted to clarify a few things that I forgot to mention in the video: 1. Current CRBNs will look different with the logo on the face. This CRBN was back from fall of 2021. Since then, CRBN has redesigned the logo on their paddle. I don’t believe anything performance wise has changed. 2. When I talk about octagon vs oval, the Electrum has an octagon butt cap, (which is what you see in the video) but the grip is actually an oval. A lot of companies attach an octagon butt cap to give the illusion of having an octagon handle. 3. Someone else pointed out that the Model E grip is actually 4 1/2 inches instead of 4 1/4th. Had the wrong info.
Thanks for the review Chris! Like I said before the engage pursuit is overhyped imho (still great paddle! But not crazy). I’ve played with all 3 and agree with you 100% on all your results
I’m very satisfied with my pursuit (only the 3rd paddle I’ve used) but always wondering about bigger or better things… what do you use please? I’m looking for lots of spin and control since I can generate power pretty well and love spin from table tennis background.
Hello Chris, I’m impressed by the Engage Pursuit mx 6.0 with that ultralow rpm in spin, since you ranked the Engage Encore mx 6.0 at the highest with 1700 rpm, how that happened? Maybe a comparison it’s worthed?
Great breakdown!! I've had the standard Electrum (13mm), the Pursuit EX 6.0 and the CRBN 2 (16mm) and my favorite is by far the CRBN. You can really feel the quality when you hold the CRBN compared to the other two. The handle is perfect, it's super soft at the kitchen yet still has the power needed to drive from the baseline. I had zero control with the Electrum and the Pursuit 's handle is awful and the build quality is garbage (can't believe they charge $200).
@@SchittsFrozn yeah I played with it for a bit and it felt great, just felt heavy because of the foam injected into the top of the paddle. It's also a little bit heavier than paddles I'm used to; I like 7.8 ounces.
Nice review. I played with Engage Pursuit MX (not 6.0) for 18 months. I beat it. The edge is super super beat because I don’t mind tapping the court on some shots and the edge guard has held up great- never had any issues. I still get great spin after 18 months. The official marketing language stated that the texture would not wear off because the texture is all the way through the material and I have seen that prove to be true. Question about Graphite… is it actually a different material than raw carbon, or is it a different way of naming the material?
Carbon fiber, while produced from graphite, is a different material than graphite. It's essentially like asking "Are cheese and milk the same thing?" Graphite is nothing else than a random stack of graphene layers with a variable number of amorphous areas. The higher the percentage of amorphous areas the lower the mechanical properties of the graphite will be. Carbon fibers are precisely oriented and aligned strands of graphite, and with those fibers aligned in stacks so that the hexagons are (mostly) oriented in the direction of maximum stress. Different grades of carbon fibers arise from the higher percentage of aligned strands and lower amount of defects. The higher the alignment the higher the elastic modulus, and the lower the number of defects and thus the higher the strength. Carbon fiber we To summarize, carbon fibers are stronger than graphite because they are structurally aligned graphite strands with a lower number of defects. Even within the class of carbon fiber materials, properties may vary depending on the straightness of the fiber and the "tow", or number of individual fibers there are per “row”, of the weave . However, the quality of fiber is, in practice, significantly more important than the characteristics of the weave. In general, carbon fiber is stronger the straighter the fiber is. Depending on manufacturing process, either higher or lower tow could be “flatter" and therefore stronger. TMI?
I got the LITE version of this Pursuit MX 6.0. Love it. I see the swing weight of the Standard version (which I assume is the one you tested) is 137. Any guess what the swing weight of the LITE version is?
For those who do not like how much vibration these new thermoformed carbon fiber paddles are transferring to the arm (and elbow), try out this graphite Engage Pursuit MX 6.0. After going through a couple of carbon fibers and then going BACK to this paddle, I really appreciate it.
Folks who know me(or my posts on Pickleball Forum) know I really like the Players paddles, specifically the Players Rogue2 Carbon. Probably not all that spinny compared to the gritty faced paddles; but I find no lack of spin. Comes in four shapes and can be purchased for $117 right now with a discount code. Great American-made paddle at a great price! Would be interesting to see how it "stacks up". Cheers, CoachRick
The Gearbox CX paddles are all carbon fiber with carbon fiber ribs for solid construction without the softening of the honeycomb poly cores. My CX14 has a lot of feel.
The grip size for the Electrum E is actually 4.5" (not 4.25" as told in the video). The other Electrum paddle (the square one) has a grip size of 4.25". I know this fact, because I use the Electrum E paddle, but I "shave" the grip down to a comfortable 4.25" (personal preference). You can check their website as well. This was a great comparison video !!!
Thanks for that correction! The JustPaddles website had it listed as 4 1/4th. Though, electrums website does say the grip can vary up to 1/8th. I’ll add these notes to my pinned comment. Appreciate you pointing it out.
It's a little tricky to get an accurate measurement on a "ribbed" grip, as it can vary slightly because of the pronounced ridge. Those who prefer the smaller size would perhaps enjoy switching to a smoother grip as an easy change.
@@racketrick Totally agree. After shaving down my grip size, I put on a very thin Wilson grip (which is smooth), and actually wrap it higher on the throat (to help for 2-hand backhands). Then I put a Yonex overgrip for increased tackiness. Works great!
@@lenaustin4951 If you don't have any experience in building up/shaving down tennis grips, I would recommend you go to your local tennis shop where they string rackets, and ask them if they have a service to shave down grips. Technically it's pretty easy....simply using sand paper to shave down the balsa wood, but you need to do it evenly which can be tricky (thus, pay someone $15-20 to have them do it for you)
I was hoping to find a review of the Engage/Omega Evolution Elite. I noticed in your spreadsheet that you had measured it but couldn't find any comments on it. How would you describe the surface? Is it a spray on grit? It does say CF however it doesn't come right out and say T700 like the other Omega paddles. Any help on what it actually is please and thanks! Keep up the good stuff.
Great video!!! i’ve been debating these three paddles for so long and this was super helpful. trying to demo the model e and the crbn soon and will make a decision from there!!
The CRBN1 v2 (approved)16mm is 4.375" not 4.5" (according to the website). I love it's handle. I double overgrip it and have the throat leaded to 9.0oz.. and it's very plush and the perceived sweet spot is bigger with the lead.... maybe a little soft on the power... but I like it.
Are the spin numbers in your tests soley based on “as hard as you can hit” drives or are Dinks and other shots included? Just curious. For example, a gear box can have more spin from Baseline and less when dinking or more mid paced shots. It’s important for me to have spin throughout various situations and would likely take the one that averaged across the board the best. Thanks in advance. I hope my comment/question made sense.
So I bought the Electrum model E because of your review. Model E has the Most spin I have ever seen. As the Engage seems to have more power. The carbon well I can't say because I don't own one. Well not yet..
Thanks for taking the time to give us the info we could use in deciding on what paddle would be best for us. Do you have any info on the new Diadem edge? Thanks
Fantastic review. Super helpful. I've been considering all 3 for my next paddle. So, is the Electrum good enough to replace the warrior as your main squeeze?
Great information always. Really surprised that the engage pursuit had such low numbers on the rpm’s. PikNinja Sports will be introducing a contender that will hopefully blend the best of all worlds! Let’s go!
Check his spin rate comparison test. The MX 6.0 had the highest spin rate rpm at 1788. I asked him to explain the conflicting results and he’s not responding. The EX 6.0 came in sixth at 1560.
When I shaved the grip of my Electrum E paddle down from 4.5" to 4.25", you can achieve the octagon grip by putting on a thin grip (I used Wilson). And then, I put a Yonex overgrip for better tackiness. Works great. And actually, I was able to have the Wilson base grip wrapped "higher" on the throat to help with two-handed backhand situations.
@@drummerdude408 This video has the electrum E handle at 4.25” and the crbn at 4.5” although I’ve heard Electrum E owners only complaint is wishing it would come with thinner handle.
Excellent review - as always. The best Pickleball paddle reviews on RUclips. One question. When I see some vendors use numbers like 94 for spin or control, for example, how are these generated?
Guessed as much but thought if anyone knew, it would be you. Any chance of a review of the new Joola paddles soon? I am considering one of the three you just recieeed but then saw the new Joola and wondered if the construction might be better. Concerned about the Engage, construction-wise and heard similar for the Franklin. And initial view of the Joola is a solid build. But build is one thing, play another. Currently play with a Head but considering a change.
The CRBN 2 16mm is better than the CRBN 1 16mm because it has a bigger sweetspot without sacrificing power or control. I have played with both and far prefer the CRBN 2. (FWIW, I'm a former high level tennis player).
Agree with R Anderson. The CRBN2 16mm is better than the CRBN1. Nice sweetspot, fantastic spin and I get excellent touch/control from the CRBN2. I'm a fan and recommend it, but your mileage may vary.
I’ll have to try it again sometime from my friend. Back when I tried it in Nov, I reaaaaaaallllyyyyyy didn’t like it. But my play style has evolved a lot since that time, so maybe it would work better now.
@@PickleballStudio So how long do you actually play with paddles before reviewing them? It seems you (and another RUclips reviewer I enjoy) spend the most time playing with them.
I don’t have an actual amount of hours I am for. Generally I try and play with them enough that I feel like I understand every characteristic. Once I’ve got to that point, I do even more testing to confirm that I actually feel that way about the paddle. I had to do this a few times with the Engage to make sure what I was writing matched up with reality haha. Electrum I probably have 75+ hours, Warrior I had 100+ hours (that's the longest I’ve used any paddle), 002 I’m probably around 30+ hours. It helps significantly if I really enjoy the paddle and can use it for my actual training as well as rec/test play.
Super surprising about the engage rpm results. I thought it would be near the top (that's what I've been telling people!) But glad to have some numbers behind it now
But Engage doesn't cover a broken handle under their warranty. They told me that happens as a result of hitting paddles so it isn't a manufacturing issue
Hey Chris. Did you use a different technique to measure spin? The video you made from 4 months ago shows Pursuit 6.0 Mx as having drastically higher spin
That was the Pursuit MX non 6.0. I’m using the same technique to measure. As of recently I’ve noticed thinner paddles are often generating more spin than thick paddles. This can be seen from: ProKennex, CRBN 13mm vs 16mm, Project 002 (13mm) Gearbox 11 and 14mm. So it wouldn’t surprise me if that applies to the non 6.0 MX that we tested. I think my brother still owns the paddle so I might retest it here soon to verify results.
You’re correct. Check his spin rate comparison test. The MX 6.0 had the highest spin rate rpm at 1788. I asked him to explain the conflicting results and he’s not responding. The EX 6.0 came in sixth at 1560.
@@bigdog343 I've responded to your comments several times now lol. You are mixing up paddles when you ask your question. The MX 6.0 did NOT ever get 1788 RPM. The Encore MX 6.0 got 1788 RPM. Those are not the same paddles.
Would love to see you do another Engage review on the Pursuit EX 6.0 and maybe try the Engage MX again? I'm very curious why you can't play in singles with that paddle at all. This is a very popular paddle from what I can see. Thanks much!
Much of it is just personal preference. I’d like to try some brand new ones (since I’ve always used loaners) but last time it just wasn’t for me. I don’t think it’s a bad paddle necessarily.
For spin, the 002 destroys everything on the market right now. It’s doing 1800+ RPM. It’s so fast that I need a camera that can more accurately see the rotation of the ball.
@@grantbrown6502 I hand tbe CRBN 1 13 mm and 16 mm and get great soon. Just curious though how the new ones comparte to the old ones since I only just bought these a month ago.
@@grantbrown6502 Yes, I get it. I do too as the two I bought are the USPA approved versions. I am just curious how they stack up compared to the old ones.
I’d like to see you review the new Ben Johns Joola paddle against these. The hype says it will stack up very well but does it? An honest independent review is always better the manufacturer’s advertising.
Thanks for the nice detailed review but was wondering how you measured the "power" of each paddle? I'm trusting your review and ordered one of the Crbn paddles with your link so you get paid. :) Looking forward to seeing how well it plays! Thanks.
Hey! Really appreciate that. Thanks for the support :) I don’t have a specific way to measure power currently. It’s just based on extended play testing and noticing which ones take more effort on drives, serves, overheads, etc. after enough play you start to notice which ones aren’t going as deep or take more effort
@@PickleballStudio - I received my new CRBN1 paddle and I agree with 5th & Lane below - the feel/quality is great right out of the box! But I'm a bit disappointed that after just one use the face is all scuffed up already. At first I thought it was just dirt so I wiped it down but once it dried the scuffs reappeared. Couldn't figure out how to attach a picture here but I have pics if you'd like to see them. Love how the paddle feels and plays but not sure if the scuffing will affect the play so will give it the full 30 day trial run before deciding to keep or return it...
In your previous video on spin, you measured the Selkirk SLK as capable of high rated spin despite being rather smooth and you said the texture of the face doesn’t necessarily determine the amount of spin one can achieve. I bought the Engage Pursuit EX 6.0 because you rated the spin among the highest and when I demoed it, I felt the spin I was and I’m still getting with it is at least as high as the ProKennex Pro Flight I was currently using, which is consistent with your test results - but I feel it’s much easier to impart spin with the EX 6.0. The numbers you achieved with the EX 6.0 demonstrate that those numbers can be achieved with a thick paddle. It doesn’t make sense that Engage would reduce the spin on the MX 6.0 by such a large margin, reducing it to such an under performer, just to get under the approved limit - and why would the Engage MX 6.0 be singled out for such a drastic reduction? What would account for such a wide disparity between your results with the EX 6.0 versus the MX 6.0?
I honestly don’t have any idea. I’m planning to retest the EX 6.0 and figure out if the surface feels different or what the deal is. It doesn’t add up to me. Especially retesting the MX 6.0 several times with different people and getting near identical low results.
Love your approach and your reviews. I’m looking forward to hearing more. I wonder if a conversation with Engage might prove useful. When I talked to them about the EX, they told me I could expect more spin with the 6.0 version. I would think the longer handle on the MX would make it even easier to impart spin, but the Selkirk Invikta doesn’t bear that out. The dimensions of the various faces are different, so there are other variables. Keep us updated on what you find. Thanks!
@@robbecker9583 Well what's actually interesting is my own data is proving to be the opposite. I'm working on updating my spin spreadsheet with far more data. Right now I have a graph that shows that thinner paddles are generating more RPMs. Now of course, this is just with my own personal results and things might change if I could test 1000s of people. But when I started everyone (and companies) always claim that thicker paddles will get more spin, and so far in my case that hasn't been true. Going to borrow my brothers EX tomorrow and try and get some tests done.
So I went ahead and retested with both of my brothers this weekend and the results still hold very similarly. Keep in mind, the edge guard on the EX is broken, so that probably has some performance impacts. Chris EX 6.0: 1270RPM (a difference of 50RPM from the original test, which is what I consider within margin of error) Patrick EX 6.0 1420RPM (a difference of 130RPM from original.) Aizec EX 6.0: 1320RPM (he wasn't in the original test, but added him for more data). So the EX 6.0 results are still NOTICEABLY higher than the MX 6.0. Now what could cause that, I have no idea. In theory they should be the same paddle with slightly different face shapes and handle length. Very interesting to see though.
Great stuff. I’d be curious to see and compare results from the regular EX versus the 6.0. When I demoed them, I felt like I could get a bit more spin with the regular EX when I hit the sweet spot just right, but I preferred the 6.0 because the entire face seems to be the sweet spot, so I feel like it’s possible I may get a negligible reduction in spin, but more consistent spin, which is easier to impart from shot to shot and your previous test results placed the EX 6.0 in the top tier. I also didn’t care for the increased “pop” of the regular EX. The 6.0 at 7.95 ounces has plenty of power and I prefer to choose when I want extra. I think it’s interesting that you’re finding thinner paddles correlate more often with high spin results than thicker ones. But, the EX 6.0 seems to show it’s possible to achieve substantial spin numbers with a thicker paddle, the Selkirk SLK seems to show it’s possible to achieve high numbers with a relatively smooth face and the Invikta seems to show that the addition of coarser grit to the face will not necessarily result in high spin. Perhaps there’s another factor involved in producing high spin? The data you’re accumulating is amazing. At the risk of sounding ungrateful, I’d be curious to see how much spin these paddles produce both on and off the sweet spot. For me, it’s important to have a paddle that gives me consistent results. Thanks for the update!
Project 002 from Selkirk. It destroys everything that exists right now (or at least, that I’ve tested). I’ve had 3 people run through the test and it was all 1800+ RPM. It’s rotating so fast that I need a higher speed camera to record the results accurately. They are probably doing 2,000-2,100RPM with it.
@@PickleballStudio WOW! First I've heard this. Seem the reviews on this paddle are non-existent so was wondering if Selkirk put a freeze on them or said can't review it until you've played with it for X number of weeks. (EDIT: Just saw your reply on my initial post. Looking forward to it.)
Great in-depth review as always. If I every go back to a honeycomb paddle, this was a good source. Never be an Engage owner since their handle issue at the neck still has not been solved. IMO.
I know you have the Selkirk project 002 but yet to have compared it to anything or put up its spin numbers which I think you hinted once we’re off the charts? True? Can you please do a review of the 002?
That was the Pursuit EX 6.0 not the MX. But that’s a good question. Perhaps Engage had a similar story as Electrum and used to be grittier. The EX we used was actually the one that I mentioned broke for my brother. So maybe I’ll borrow it and see how the face feels.
@@PickleballStudio My first Pursuit EX was noticeably grittier than my replacement Pursuit EX, something must have changed w/ the manufacturing over time.
Here you claim the MX 6 had the worst spin rate at about 1000 to 1100. Then you did another test with 50 paddles where the MX 6 came in at the top at 1750 rpm. So which is it?
This video compares the MX 6.0 with the other two. According to your research, the MX had the worst spin rate at about 1100. In the spin rate comparison test with the 50 paddles, MX 6,0 came in first with 1788 rpm. The EX 6.0 was 6th at 1550. Go back and watch. I’m just trying to buy the right paddle, and you have conflicting test results.
@@bigdog343 No, you aren't listening lol. The paddle that came first in the original spin test video was the Engage Encore MX 6.0 at 1788 RPM. In this video I tested the Engage Pursuit MX 6.0 which came in around 1000 RPM. The Pursuit and Encore are entirely different paddles. The Engage Pursuit MX 6.0 has tested consistently low across myself and two other testers when I recently retested it to verify results. If you want good spin, do not buy the Pursuit MX 6.0.
Are you even looking at the video you are commenting on? You indicate one of the paddles is an oval handle when it is clearly an octagon ....... come on you all. Are you truly reviewing these products in an objective way or are you just reading the manufacturer's literature and product descriptions?
First of all, before you make accusations, yes I spend EXTENSIVE time on all my reviews. The paddle that you think is an Octagon is not. The butt cap is an octagon, the actual handle is not. This is a common trick that manufacturers use in Pickleball. I took off every over grip on each paddle and inspected them. Engage is known for using ovals, Electrum until recently did the same. I never trust the manufacturer literature because it’s often misleading.
Well...thanks you for the unnecessarily rude comment, but I play 4.0 and won gold in it at the PPA, so I'm not sure what to tell you. But feel free to show me how to play and review a paddle better. :)
You are right. The edge guards on the Engage Pursuits are fragile; however, I can’t emphasize enough how comforting it is knowing that Engage paddles come with a lifetime warranty and that Engage is very good about honoring claims.
Lifetime on the Engage is a key selling point....I have the MX (not 6.0) and love the paddle....touch is better than other 12-13mm paddles and power is definitely more noticeable....i don't have 600 bucks to test all 3 but this Engage checked all the boxes for me so far
He’s right about the crbn1. When I was on I was unstoppable. Everything came back at my opponents with pace and spin and i got to everything due to the long handle. However, for as many games as i was dominant, i played an equal amount of sub-par terrible games. Games where the ball would just die off my paddle due to miss hits. It was very frustrating to do so well but then lose it all the next match. For that reason, i replaced my crbn1 with the crbn2. The crbn2 is the most reliable paddle ive played with. I get so much control. The power is severely lacking so i will probably add lead tape but still its a great player friendly paddle
Great again! And perfect timing. I was debating the crbn and the E. You made the choice much easier. Thanks!
Love the Engage paddle.
Hey guys, I think you do a fantastic job on the reviews love that you’re using actual science and numbers in your comparisons. Hoping to see a Joola review soon, hottest paddle on peoples minds since johns jumped and not many good reviews out there right now. Keep up the good work.
So, just hit with the Engage MX 6.0 and the Electrum E this morning, liking the MX a bit better right now. Went through a number of drills with them, serving, dinks, returns... I fell like I hit the sweet spot more with the MX. The dinks were pretty well controlled and the returns were solid. Since I was leaning towards the MX I played with it a bit more, so tomorrow I'm going to go hit 400-500 serves with both and see how they feel. The grip on the E is a tad shorter and enough that it WAS noticeable and I do not like the ribbed grip either Chris. Over grip did take care of that. So I felt like I couldn't get as good a grip on the E v.s the MX 6.0... More to come. Great analysis Chris!
I can speak for the CRBN 16mm on its Power, Control, and Spin. It's an all around great paddle. Grip is very good for those transitioning from tennis like myself.
Thanks for this! In your other video where you tested 27 paddles, the Engage came in at 1588PRM, I believe... What accounts for the change in RPM in this test? What IYO, is the spinniest paddle for singles play? Is there a spinny, "long" / oversize paddle?
Just wanted to clarify a few things that I forgot to mention in the video:
1. Current CRBNs will look different with the logo on the face. This CRBN was back from fall of 2021. Since then, CRBN has redesigned the logo on their paddle. I don’t believe anything performance wise has changed.
2. When I talk about octagon vs oval, the Electrum has an octagon butt cap, (which is what you see in the video) but the grip is actually an oval. A lot of companies attach an octagon butt cap to give the illusion of having an octagon handle.
3. Someone else pointed out that the Model E grip is actually 4 1/2 inches instead of 4 1/4th. Had the wrong info.
I believe the CRBN 1 16mm grip size is only 4.375 , odd that Just Paddles has two grip sizes listed?
Thanks for the review Chris! Like I said before the engage pursuit is overhyped imho (still great paddle! But not crazy). I’ve played with all 3 and agree with you 100% on all your results
I’m very satisfied with my pursuit (only the 3rd paddle I’ve used) but always wondering about bigger or better things… what do you use please? I’m looking for lots of spin and control since I can generate power pretty well and love spin from table tennis background.
@@thomasbrown7328 I currently use diadem Warrior edge and the Selkirk power air
@@PickleballWill thanks which one of those two is superior for spin/control plz?
Hello Chris, I’m impressed by the Engage Pursuit mx 6.0 with that ultralow rpm in spin, since you ranked the Engage Encore mx 6.0 at the highest with 1700 rpm, how that happened? Maybe a comparison it’s worthed?
Great breakdown!! I've had the standard Electrum (13mm), the Pursuit EX 6.0 and the CRBN 2 (16mm) and my favorite is by far the CRBN. You can really feel the quality when you hold the CRBN compared to the other two. The handle is perfect, it's super soft at the kitchen yet still has the power needed to drive from the baseline. I had zero control with the Electrum and the Pursuit 's handle is awful and the build quality is garbage (can't believe they charge $200).
Too bad it's not usapa approved anymore
@@Nix27. haha right, so crazy. I got the new Joola Ben Johns paddle a couple days ago and I gotta admit, it feels good. Heavy…but good.
@@SchittsFrozn yeah I played with it for a bit and it felt great, just felt heavy because of the foam injected into the top of the paddle. It's also a little bit heavier than paddles I'm used to; I like 7.8 ounces.
Nice review. I played with Engage Pursuit MX (not 6.0) for 18 months. I beat it. The edge is super super beat because I don’t mind tapping the court on some shots and the edge guard has held up great- never had any issues. I still get great spin after 18 months. The official marketing language stated that the texture would not wear off because the texture is all the way through the material and I have seen that prove to be true.
Question about Graphite… is it actually a different material than raw carbon, or is it a different way of naming the material?
Carbon fiber, while produced from graphite, is a different material than graphite. It's essentially like asking "Are cheese and milk the same thing?"
Graphite is nothing else than a random stack of graphene layers with a variable number of amorphous areas. The higher the percentage of amorphous areas the lower the mechanical properties of the graphite will be.
Carbon fibers are precisely oriented and aligned strands of graphite, and with those fibers aligned in stacks so that the hexagons are (mostly) oriented in the direction of maximum stress.
Different grades of carbon fibers arise from the higher percentage of aligned strands and lower amount of defects. The higher the alignment the higher the elastic modulus, and the lower the number of defects and thus the higher the strength. Carbon fiber we
To summarize, carbon fibers are stronger than graphite because they are structurally aligned graphite strands with a lower number of defects.
Even within the class of carbon fiber materials, properties may vary depending on the straightness of the fiber and the "tow", or number of individual fibers there are per “row”, of the weave . However, the quality of fiber is, in practice, significantly more important than the characteristics of the weave. In general, carbon fiber is stronger the straighter the fiber is. Depending on manufacturing process, either higher or lower tow could be “flatter" and therefore stronger.
TMI?
Thanks! This made my decision to go with the Model E. It will be available June 20, 2022.
I got the LITE version of this Pursuit MX 6.0. Love it. I see the swing weight of the Standard version (which I assume is the one you tested) is 137. Any guess what the swing weight of the LITE version is?
For those who do not like how much vibration these new thermoformed carbon fiber paddles are transferring to the arm (and elbow), try out this graphite Engage Pursuit MX 6.0. After going through a couple of carbon fibers and then going BACK to this paddle, I really appreciate it.
Which one would you choose….Looking to buy a new paddle. The Electrum Model E vs Joola Ben Johns Hyperion CFS 16?
Folks who know me(or my posts on Pickleball Forum) know I really like the Players paddles, specifically the Players Rogue2 Carbon. Probably not all that spinny compared to the gritty faced paddles; but I find no lack of spin. Comes in four shapes and can be purchased for $117 right now with a discount code. Great American-made paddle at a great price!
Would be interesting to see how it "stacks up". Cheers, CoachRick
The Gearbox CX paddles are all carbon fiber with carbon fiber ribs for solid construction without the softening of the honeycomb poly cores. My CX14 has a lot of feel.
Yup. CX14 is easily one of the best touch paddles on the market right now. Unbelievably durable too.
The grip size for the Electrum E is actually 4.5" (not 4.25" as told in the video). The other Electrum paddle (the square one) has a grip size of 4.25". I know this fact, because I use the Electrum E paddle, but I "shave" the grip down to a comfortable 4.25" (personal preference). You can check their website as well. This was a great comparison video !!!
Thanks for that correction! The JustPaddles website had it listed as 4 1/4th.
Though, electrums website does say the grip can vary up to 1/8th. I’ll add these notes to my pinned comment. Appreciate you pointing it out.
It's a little tricky to get an accurate measurement on a "ribbed" grip, as it can vary slightly because of the pronounced ridge. Those who prefer the smaller size would perhaps enjoy switching to a smoother grip as an easy change.
@@racketrick Totally agree. After shaving down my grip size, I put on a very thin Wilson grip (which is smooth), and actually wrap it higher on the throat (to help for 2-hand backhands). Then I put a Yonex overgrip for increased tackiness. Works great!
How do you “shave the handle on your Electrum E?
@@lenaustin4951 If you don't have any experience in building up/shaving down tennis grips, I would recommend you go to your local tennis shop where they string rackets, and ask them if they have a service to shave down grips. Technically it's pretty easy....simply using sand paper to shave down the balsa wood, but you need to do it evenly which can be tricky (thus, pay someone $15-20 to have them do it for you)
I was hoping to find a review of the Engage/Omega Evolution Elite. I noticed in your spreadsheet that you had measured it but couldn't find any comments on it. How would you describe the surface? Is it a spray on grit? It does say CF however it doesn't come right out and say T700 like the other Omega paddles. Any help on what it actually is please and thanks! Keep up the good stuff.
Great video!!! i’ve been debating these three paddles for so long and this was super helpful. trying to demo the model e and the crbn soon and will make a decision from there!!
Thank you- it is very difficult to find detailed info on these paddles. Helped me a ton!
Great review just bought my 2nd Electrum...keep the content coming great job
Been using Electrum for a couple years. Nice review!
The CRBN1 v2 (approved)16mm is 4.375" not 4.5" (according to the website). I love it's handle. I double overgrip it and have the throat leaded to 9.0oz.. and it's very plush and the perceived sweet spot is bigger with the lead.... maybe a little soft on the power... but I like it.
Are the spin numbers in your tests soley based on “as hard as you can hit” drives or are Dinks and other shots included? Just curious. For example, a gear box can have more spin from
Baseline and less when dinking or more mid paced shots. It’s important for me to have spin throughout various situations and would likely take the one that averaged across the board the best. Thanks in advance. I hope my comment/question made sense.
Awesome video / breakdown. Thank you. Very helpful!
y'all are just friggin awesome..my go to for me and to recommend to others...gittyup, keep it comin'
So I bought the Electrum model E because of your review. Model E has the Most spin I have ever seen. As the Engage seems to have more power. The carbon well I can't say because I don't own one. Well not yet..
Thanks for taking the time to give us the info we could use in deciding on what paddle would be best for us. Do you have any info on the new Diadem edge? Thanks
Dude just found your channel...and you are rockin' it! Thanks
Thank you!!
Good job: objective, methodic, and enjoyable!
Awesome video! Can't wait to see more videos like this one
Fantastic review. Super helpful. I've been considering all 3 for my next paddle. So, is the Electrum good enough to replace the warrior as your main squeeze?
Yup! Fully switched over last month and loving it. Still think the Warrior is amazing, but the breaking issues have me too worried to keep using it.
Great information always. Really surprised that the engage pursuit had such low numbers on the rpm’s. PikNinja Sports will be introducing a contender that will hopefully blend the best of all worlds! Let’s go!
When?
I second that! Looking forward to a new pikninja 👊
Check his spin rate comparison test. The MX 6.0 had the highest spin rate rpm at 1788. I asked him to explain the conflicting results and he’s not responding. The EX 6.0 came in sixth at 1560.
Great content. Subscribed.
Just bought the model E, would love to have it in octogon. Guess I’ll have to try the CRBN later this summer
Same. I really wish it was octagon, but an overgrip has helped me notice the oval less. So that’s been helpful.
When I shaved the grip of my Electrum E paddle down from 4.5" to 4.25", you can achieve the octagon grip by putting on a thin grip (I used Wilson). And then, I put a Yonex overgrip for better tackiness. Works great. And actually, I was able to have the Wilson base grip wrapped "higher" on the throat to help with two-handed backhand situations.
@@drummerdude408 This video has the electrum E handle at 4.25” and the crbn at 4.5” although I’ve heard Electrum E owners only complaint is wishing it would come with thinner handle.
@@drummerdude408 same. I sanded the foam on mine as well and wrapped it with just one over grip to get it just under 4.25
I have used all these paddles and I agree.
Great review, awesome info...Thanks. Video suggestion: Best paddle under $100
Franklin centre
How are you measuring ball spin? That seems pretty cool.
Excellent review - as always. The best Pickleball paddle reviews on RUclips. One question. When I see some vendors use numbers like 94 for spin or control, for example, how are these generated?
Completely made up numbers by the marketing team haha
Guessed as much but thought if anyone knew, it would be you.
Any chance of a review of the new Joola paddles soon? I am considering one of the three you just recieeed but then saw the new Joola and wondered if the construction might be better. Concerned about the Engage, construction-wise and heard similar for the Franklin. And initial view of the Joola is a solid build. But build is one thing, play another. Currently play with a Head but considering a change.
Great review Chris, what are your thoughts on the Crbn 2 16mm? Better control then the 1, larger more forgiving sweetspot?? Thanks!
I actually haven’t gotten to try the CRBN2! I would like to though.
The CRBN 2 16mm is better than the CRBN 1 16mm because it has a bigger sweetspot without sacrificing power or control. I have played with both and far prefer the CRBN 2. (FWIW, I'm a former high level tennis player).
@@randerson5777
Thank you for sharing that! I was leaning towards the Crbn 2.
Agree with R Anderson. The CRBN2 16mm is better than the CRBN1. Nice sweetspot, fantastic spin and I get excellent touch/control from the CRBN2. I'm a fan and recommend it, but your mileage may vary.
Can you do the new 13mm model E? Interested now it compares to the engage
Another great, informative video. Thanks for putting together. What are your thoughts about CRBN 16mm v 13mm?
I’ll have to try it again sometime from my friend. Back when I tried it in Nov, I reaaaaaaallllyyyyyy didn’t like it. But my play style has evolved a lot since that time, so maybe it would work better now.
@@PickleballStudio please try it again and maybe compare it to the 16mm that would be awesome!!
Excellent review as always. I see that Selkirk Labs Invikta in the background. Waiting for your thoughts on that.
Hopefully this week! Just filmed my 3 testers thoughts on it.
@@PickleballStudio So how long do you actually play with paddles before reviewing them? It seems you (and another RUclips reviewer I enjoy) spend the most time playing with them.
I don’t have an actual amount of hours I am for. Generally I try and play with them enough that I feel like I understand every characteristic. Once I’ve got to that point, I do even more testing to confirm that I actually feel that way about the paddle. I had to do this a few times with the Engage to make sure what I was writing matched up with reality haha.
Electrum I probably have 75+ hours, Warrior I had 100+ hours (that's the longest I’ve used any paddle), 002 I’m probably around 30+ hours.
It helps significantly if I really enjoy the paddle and can use it for my actual training as well as rec/test play.
Super surprising about the engage rpm results. I thought it would be near the top (that's what I've been telling people!) But glad to have some numbers behind it now
But Engage doesn't cover a broken handle under their warranty. They told me that happens as a result of hitting paddles so it isn't a manufacturing issue
Hey Chris. Did you use a different technique to measure spin? The video you made from 4 months ago shows Pursuit 6.0 Mx as having drastically higher spin
That was the Pursuit MX non 6.0. I’m using the same technique to measure.
As of recently I’ve noticed thinner paddles are often generating more spin than thick paddles. This can be seen from:
ProKennex, CRBN 13mm vs 16mm, Project 002 (13mm) Gearbox 11 and 14mm. So it wouldn’t surprise me if that applies to the non 6.0 MX that we tested. I think my brother still owns the paddle so I might retest it here soon to verify results.
You’re correct. Check his spin rate comparison test. The MX 6.0 had the highest spin rate rpm at 1788. I asked him to explain the conflicting results and he’s not responding. The EX 6.0 came in sixth at 1560.
@@bigdog343 I've responded to your comments several times now lol. You are mixing up paddles when you ask your question. The MX 6.0 did NOT ever get 1788 RPM. The Encore MX 6.0 got 1788 RPM. Those are not the same paddles.
Would love to see you do another Engage review on the Pursuit EX 6.0 and maybe try the Engage MX again? I'm very curious why you can't play in singles with that paddle at all. This is a very popular paddle from what I can see. Thanks much!
Much of it is just personal preference. I’d like to try some brand new ones (since I’ve always used loaners) but last time it just wasn’t for me. I don’t think it’s a bad paddle necessarily.
Hi Chris, I saw that you have the 002. How the grit/spin of 002 compares to the CRBN? Thanks.
For spin, the 002 destroys everything on the market right now. It’s doing 1800+ RPM. It’s so fast that I need a camera that can more accurately see the rotation of the ball.
@@PickleballStudio Thanks for the info.
Great job. When can we expect a review of the new CRBN paddles (post ban)?
I own the new one and love it. I get amazing spin
@@grantbrown6502 I hand tbe CRBN 1 13 mm and 16 mm and get great soon. Just curious though how the new ones comparte to the old ones since I only just bought these a month ago.
@@danpiedra3910 I csnt speak for the old ones, but I get great spin with the new one and that's all that matters really.
@@grantbrown6502 Yes, I get it. I do too as the two I bought are the USPA approved versions. I am just curious how they stack up compared to the old ones.
I’d like to see you review the new Ben Johns Joola paddle against these. The hype says it will stack up very well but does it? An honest independent review is always better the manufacturer’s advertising.
Testing as we speak! So far I’m quite impressed.
@@ChrisOlson2 Thanks Chris. I appreciate your efforts and I'm sure everyone else does. When do you think you will post your a review - a week or two?
I’ll have a first impressions up by Monday. I’m out of town from the 13th-25th of April so the full review will probably take a bit
do you think the model e has more control than the diadem warrior? Thanks!
I have played with the pursuit for about 6 weeks and face is now smooth. :( maybe try the Crbn now.
Thanks for the nice detailed review but was wondering how you measured the "power" of each paddle? I'm trusting your review and ordered one of the Crbn paddles with your link so you get paid. :) Looking forward to seeing how well it plays! Thanks.
Hey! Really appreciate that. Thanks for the support :)
I don’t have a specific way to measure power currently. It’s just based on extended play testing and noticing which ones take more effort on drives, serves, overheads, etc. after enough play you start to notice which ones aren’t going as deep or take more effort
@@PickleballStudio - I received my new CRBN1 paddle and I agree with 5th & Lane below - the feel/quality is great right out of the box! But I'm a bit disappointed that after just one use the face is all scuffed up already. At first I thought it was just dirt so I wiped it down but once it dried the scuffs reappeared. Couldn't figure out how to attach a picture here but I have pics if you'd like to see them. Love how the paddle feels and plays but not sure if the scuffing will affect the play so will give it the full 30 day trial run before deciding to keep or return it...
The electrum model E grip size is 4.5" not 4.25" according to the electrum website
You plan on reviewing the Gruvn Raw 16e anytime?
Great review! Where are you guys playing Pickleball at in this video?
Lucky Shots pickleball!
Great Review!
Didn’t you do a spin test on 25 paddles and didn’t the engage encore MX 6 have the most spin? What the difference between the pursuit and engage?
Common misunderstanding. It was the Encore 6.0. Not the Pursuit.
In your previous video on spin, you measured the Selkirk SLK as capable of high rated spin despite being rather smooth and you said the texture of the face doesn’t necessarily determine the amount of spin one can achieve. I bought the Engage Pursuit EX 6.0 because you rated the spin among the highest and when I demoed it, I felt the spin I was and I’m still getting with it is at least as high as the ProKennex Pro Flight I was currently using, which is consistent with your test results - but I feel it’s much easier to impart spin with the EX 6.0. The numbers you achieved with the EX 6.0 demonstrate that those numbers can be achieved with a thick paddle. It doesn’t make sense that Engage would reduce the spin on the MX 6.0 by such a large margin, reducing it to such an under performer, just to get under the approved limit - and why would the Engage MX 6.0 be singled out for such a drastic reduction? What would account for such a wide disparity between your results with the EX 6.0 versus the MX 6.0?
I honestly don’t have any idea. I’m planning to retest the EX 6.0 and figure out if the surface feels different or what the deal is. It doesn’t add up to me.
Especially retesting the MX 6.0 several times with different people and getting near identical low results.
Love your approach and your reviews. I’m looking forward to hearing more. I wonder if a conversation with Engage might prove useful. When I talked to them about the EX, they told me I could expect more spin with the 6.0 version. I would think the longer handle on the MX would make it even easier to impart spin, but the Selkirk Invikta doesn’t bear that out. The dimensions of the various faces are different, so there are other variables. Keep us updated on what you find. Thanks!
@@robbecker9583 Well what's actually interesting is my own data is proving to be the opposite. I'm working on updating my spin spreadsheet with far more data. Right now I have a graph that shows that thinner paddles are generating more RPMs. Now of course, this is just with my own personal results and things might change if I could test 1000s of people.
But when I started everyone (and companies) always claim that thicker paddles will get more spin, and so far in my case that hasn't been true.
Going to borrow my brothers EX tomorrow and try and get some tests done.
So I went ahead and retested with both of my brothers this weekend and the results still hold very similarly. Keep in mind, the edge guard on the EX is broken, so that probably has some performance impacts.
Chris EX 6.0: 1270RPM (a difference of 50RPM from the original test, which is what I consider within margin of error)
Patrick EX 6.0 1420RPM (a difference of 130RPM from original.)
Aizec EX 6.0: 1320RPM (he wasn't in the original test, but added him for more data).
So the EX 6.0 results are still NOTICEABLY higher than the MX 6.0. Now what could cause that, I have no idea. In theory they should be the same paddle with slightly different face shapes and handle length. Very interesting to see though.
Great stuff. I’d be curious to see and compare results from the regular EX versus the 6.0. When I demoed them, I felt like I could get a bit more spin with the regular EX when I hit the sweet spot just right, but I preferred the 6.0 because the entire face seems to be the sweet spot, so I feel like it’s possible I may get a negligible reduction in spin, but more consistent spin, which is easier to impart from shot to shot and your previous test results placed the EX 6.0 in the top tier. I also didn’t care for the increased “pop” of the regular EX. The 6.0 at 7.95 ounces has plenty of power and I prefer to choose when I want extra. I think it’s interesting that you’re finding thinner paddles correlate more often with high spin results than thicker ones. But, the EX 6.0 seems to show it’s possible to achieve substantial spin numbers with a thicker paddle, the Selkirk SLK seems to show it’s possible to achieve high numbers with a relatively smooth face and the Invikta seems to show that the addition of coarser grit to the face will not necessarily result in high spin. Perhaps there’s another factor involved in producing high spin? The data you’re accumulating is amazing. At the risk of sounding ungrateful, I’d be curious to see how much spin these paddles produce both on and off the sweet spot. For me, it’s important to have a paddle that gives me consistent results. Thanks for the update!
Do you have a chart on which paddles have an octagonal handle?
When are you doing a Labs 001 and 002 review?
002 hopefully live this Saturday. 001 early April
What would you say is the HIGHEST spin, elongated paddle
Project 002 from Selkirk. It destroys everything that exists right now (or at least, that I’ve tested). I’ve had 3 people run through the test and it was all 1800+ RPM. It’s rotating so fast that I need a higher speed camera to record the results accurately. They are probably doing 2,000-2,100RPM with it.
Of standard production, the highest I have hit is the CX14H at 1692 which is a wide body. The best elongated was CRBN1 13mm at 1620.
@@PickleballStudio WOW! First I've heard this. Seem the reviews on this paddle are non-existent so was wondering if Selkirk put a freeze on them or said can't review it until you've played with it for X number of weeks. (EDIT: Just saw your reply on my initial post. Looking forward to it.)
Haha no freeze from Selkirk! Just taking my time to make sure I get all the info correct for everyone. Especially since it’s a fairly unique product.
@Bill Kennedy Not yet! Hoping to get the Joola ASAP!
Great in-depth review as always. If I every go back to a honeycomb paddle, this was a good source. Never be an Engage owner since their handle issue at the neck still has not been solved. IMO.
I know you have the Selkirk project 002 but yet to have compared it to anything or put up its spin numbers which I think you hinted once we’re off the charts? True? Can you please do a review of the 002?
Hey Chris! Where in MN do you play? I live here as well, would love to play with you!
And right after I send it, I see you at lucky shots!
I’m at Lucky Shots, Mega Pickle and Pong, but as soon as it’s warm out I’ll primarily be at Westwood in Bloomington!
@@PickleballStudio awesome man! I hope to see you soon, hopefully we can get a game in!
Definitely! That would be fun 😊
Anyone know if the engage Mx 6 has a bigger sweet spot than the engage sx 6. Thanks
Thanks.
I have seen some electrum paddles that develop dead spots after 6 months. From people that played 4 times a week.
hello the weight of the racket if I take lighter will be more powerful?
Heavier generally means more power.
Agree hundred percent
You have an older video that says the Pursuit has 1550 RPM. What happened?
That was the Pursuit EX 6.0 not the MX. But that’s a good question. Perhaps Engage had a similar story as Electrum and used to be grittier. The EX we used was actually the one that I mentioned broke for my brother. So maybe I’ll borrow it and see how the face feels.
@@PickleballStudio My first Pursuit EX was noticeably grittier than my replacement Pursuit EX, something must have changed w/ the manufacturing over time.
That was the EX 6.0. MX 6.0 came in at 1788. These guys aren’t responding to the discrepancy
Here you claim the MX 6 had the worst spin rate at about 1000 to 1100. Then you did another test with 50 paddles where the MX 6 came in at the top at 1750 rpm. So which is it?
The EX 6.0 Encore was first in that video. This is the Pursuit MX 6.0. Very different paddles.
This video compares the MX 6.0 with the other two. According to your research, the MX had the worst spin rate at about 1100. In the spin rate comparison test with the 50 paddles, MX 6,0 came in first with 1788 rpm. The EX 6.0 was 6th at 1550. Go back and watch. I’m just trying to buy the right paddle, and you have conflicting test results.
@@bigdog343 No, you aren't listening lol. The paddle that came first in the original spin test video was the Engage Encore MX 6.0 at 1788 RPM.
In this video I tested the Engage Pursuit MX 6.0 which came in around 1000 RPM. The Pursuit and Encore are entirely different paddles.
The Engage Pursuit MX 6.0 has tested consistently low across myself and two other testers when I recently retested it to verify results.
If you want good spin, do not buy the Pursuit MX 6.0.
Apologies. My bad. Keep up the good work
how did you get 1700 on the Engage Pursuit on your spin test video and now only 960
People commonly misread my stat. The Engage Pursuit never got 1700. The Engage ENCORE got 1700.
I was lacking power with crbn1, pursuit has more
Engage Ultra
"Tennis Elbow?" Ha, wrong sport.🤣 Maybe it should be better defined as PE.
How do you mention Thomas Wilson without mentioning AJ Koller? Come on man 🙂
Haha truly just pure oversight. Colin Johns and Thomas Wilson immediately came to my mind, so after two I didn't bother to think of more.
Someone is ripping off your video and trying to claim it as their own. Not cool at all. Here’s “their” link. ruclips.net/video/DyYHak6kDVk/видео.html
Adidas has best paddle on the market
LOL! They are trash.
First!
Are you even looking at the video you are commenting on? You indicate one of the paddles is an oval handle when it is clearly an octagon ....... come on you all. Are you truly reviewing these products in an objective way or are you just reading the manufacturer's literature and product descriptions?
First of all, before you make accusations, yes I spend EXTENSIVE time on all my reviews. The paddle that you think is an Octagon is not. The butt cap is an octagon, the actual handle is not. This is a common trick that manufacturers use in Pickleball.
I took off every over grip on each paddle and inspected them.
Engage is known for using ovals, Electrum until recently did the same.
I never trust the manufacturer literature because it’s often misleading.
Why am I watching a 3.0 compare paddles? 🤔
Well...thanks you for the unnecessarily rude comment, but I play 4.0 and won gold in it at the PPA, so I'm not sure what to tell you.
But feel free to show me how to play and review a paddle better. :)
Because you’re worse than him! You can respect people’s opinions on paddles regardless of skill level. Don’t be a dick! Have a great day! ☺️
@@PickleballStudio Brother...don't even give them the satisfaction of a response....just do you. You are killin' it!