One thing I will say is that with FF raids, everyone starts off on a much more even footing than they do with WoW raids. They're tuned so anyone can clear them with effort, not just the .01%, don't need sponsors to buy gear/pots, special gear farming groups or pocket programmers to make mods on the fly.
as someone whose never played FF14 purely cause i dont got time. my impression was the raids were just easier as the game is story based hardly a bad thing and probably a good thing. But it makes this announcement weird cause its like saying were going after world first in baldurs gate. Like cool but why?
@@CaiRobinson The game is easier for story content yes, but the savage/ ultimate tier of raids are tuned for full difficulty akin to mythic raids in wow generally where a couple mistakes will cause a wipe. FF14 has two sides, the story side where everything is tuned to be fair, and the prog side which takes the existing content throws in a heap of new mechanics and ups the difficulty majorly in comparison. Every trial and raid has a "story" version and an "extreme/ savage" version using the games terminology. Ultimate raids are purely created as essentially a mythic only available raid. It took Echo 6 months to prog their first ultimate for context after doing wow for so many years.
@CaiRobinson Savage Raids are much tougher. Really good groups might take a day or two to clear, but most regular groups prog over weeks. Ultimate fights are much, much harder. 18-20 min long fights with multiple phases. Even the best players take a couple weeks or more to clear them. Others spend months progging. As mentioned above, Echo spent 6 months on one (though to be fair, they ran out of PTO and had trouble finding replacements for a while). FFXIV has content for all skill levels.
@@CaiRobinson There is a "normal" mode for both Extremes and Raids, which is generally easy to do with 8 random people, but the race to world first is for the "Savage" and "Ultimate" difficulty fights, which are much more difficult. The biggest difference to WoW I would say is that Savage fights are designed to be clearable with week 1 gear if you're very good, so usually the best of the best will clear all four bosses within the first 48 hours and other very hardcore groups can clear within the first week. Ultimates are a whole different beast and often take a week or two for the first clears.
World first raiders don’t really care about that at this point. They know that no matter what they do, people who don’t raid will never believe them. The rift between hardcore and casual is so hostile at this point casual assume cheating no matter what
@@TheAsheron I think you discount how much this actually matters to people. Since the fiasco in Endwalkers its been a big issue and this is a good thing all around. its not about the rift between casuals and the elite. This is entertainment for the majority of the people envolved in this one way or the other.
@@TheAsheron it's not that they don't care. It's that they don't want (or can't) to put in the effort for entertainment as Echo does it and also, they're all too used to actually cheat, yes. To think that any of the usual top teams doesn't go around what the game actually allows in any way, shape or form, is naive at the very best. Is not a matter of existing a rift between casual and hardcore, to even put this as the issue is weird as hell. Casual will watch a proper RWF, if well done and with big entertainment value. Most players don't care, a lot won't even try the hardest content on release, or even touch it at all. Most will simply be glad to watch this content being done by good players. And it's well known that FF14 lacks a lot of entertainment value on their RWF. Everyone plays on the shadows and then claims a clear. Now, these big productions bring other concerns ofc.
so something to expect here, most groups will clear the tier on savage, day 1, possibly within a few hours. i seriously doubt top groups outside of the few that have agreed to this tier will want to stream prog, after years of watch destiny rwf, people love when top streamers don't get it.
Im a bit torn on the announcement myself, I dont really want the ff14 rwf to turn into a mega production thing. Also this removed Echos blind prog which has been some of the most fun stuff to watch from them. Their unique methods to overcome mechanics have been hilarious.
@@Knightsmaren yah they were on deaths door but the most recent race was for their version of an Endwalker esq expansion and Bungie actually made good content (as they only do when they are backs against the wall)
Arthars enjoys blind progging way too much to be down to casting this, same for Xenos. Frosty I think will still be doing his mogtalk cast, hard to give something up you've built up so much over the years. Jordan, Jesse and Alex are safe to assume, yep.
@@Knightsmaren Arthars said in his podcast he would consider casting it if Neverland was fully streaming it. He thinks it would be exciting enough he could give up blind progging and then hardcore prog it after.
no addons confirmed just becouse its streamed ? lmao oh sweet summerchild ^^ you can hide so much 3rd party stuff that is used..... even when you stream. who thinks that just becouse its streamed its confirmed no 3rd party is just naiv. even arthars knows and tells that to ppl who think that
It's a cool idea... But some JP team that'll never release the footage and addon the hell out of the game will claim WF and that's it. There's a world where Echo's event becomes "the official way to get WF," but that's a social construct. People who don't participate in the event will still max addon in secrecy, and post that they're the first to get the achievements. What can they do, realistically? Ask Yoshi-P to make the RWF the only place where WF is considered official? Sure, but people still need to care about that. I can already see it: "WoW raiders come in and make the rules now?" Don't underestimate this (XIV) community's ability for toxicity, Preach. Out there, it's not like in your FC.
I might be a little overthinking but i am afraid too much competitiveness could lead to doing things like ( data mining which can be done behind screen ) becomes normal. by the by, this is a very very great news. I hope people don't lead to the wrong way of competition.
@@Knightsmaren that's what i m concerning bro. Echo rwf means production value followed by sponsorships. as soon as the scence becomes bigger, other teams will try to do the same. to get sponsorship, u need to win the race or at least tryhard. This might be far fatched i know but i can see it happening in few years if echo rwf event were successsful.
@@joshuacraies8671 bro. did u read what i write? i said i know. i just dont want it to become more and more normal for everyone eventually like in wow. Yes, every top teams data mined info for the past years but at least they have to do it knowing it is a shameful thing to do for blind prog. My worry is " Yayy, new patch comes out, here the data mined everyone " on every social media.
Data mining already exists and is a standard in 14. I like many others just choose not to engage with it. And the community’s sentiment on despising data mining will likely keep it in the shadow. But with the limited gears that FF14 has and raiding’s staggered release, data mining doesn’t really offer any significant advantages. Most people that I know who even look at the data mined things only do it to look at glamours.
"Is the last sponsor squeenix?" Lmao cmon bro do a lil bit of research, not a chance. They would sponsor frosty's stream wayyy before echo since he has been carrying the race scene for the past decade and raised hundreds of thousands for charity.
What a great guy to interview, every second he sounded like he didn't want to be there, shortest answers on the planet, why did he want to be interviewed mid stream when he's that shit at it with zero enthusiasm, good on preach trying to salvage that trainwreck
preach litterally said before he got on the call "idk if these guys have any experience being intervied" and then the dude litterally said "its 4am for me rn and ive personally never done an interview like this before" 🤣 he still gave good info even if he didnt sound very animated lol
can't wait for the racing teams to have to level 5 characters to be competitive since you can't gear for ultimate on multiple jobs and be geared in time. fun times.
You play what you want. Also all jobs are on 1 character. But it doesnt matter what you play, ultimate is all about mechanical execution and what not. Its not like WoW where you only bring certain classes
I’d say it’s more likely everyone would have around two characters, three at best. I doubt many people would be flexing roles. Two would probably cover enough for role BIS while also leaving an opening to swap to job specific BIS and melds. For previous examples it’d be like tanks direct hit focused vs warriors not, casters crit vs spell speed focused, most jobs wanting specific gcd speeds, etc. But yeah SE really should update their gearing system at some point. I’d love to never want to use an alt so I can also say that you can play all jobs on one character without their needing to be an asterisk at the end of that statement.
Honestly, doesn't care who won first one bit. Watching them progging old raids blindly was the most fun I ever had in a long while.
One thing I will say is that with FF raids, everyone starts off on a much more even footing than they do with WoW raids. They're tuned so anyone can clear them with effort, not just the .01%, don't need sponsors to buy gear/pots, special gear farming groups or pocket programmers to make mods on the fly.
as someone whose never played FF14 purely cause i dont got time. my impression was the raids were just easier as the game is story based hardly a bad thing and probably a good thing. But it makes this announcement weird cause its like saying were going after world first in baldurs gate. Like cool but why?
@@CaiRobinson The game is easier for story content yes, but the savage/ ultimate tier of raids are tuned for full difficulty akin to mythic raids in wow generally where a couple mistakes will cause a wipe. FF14 has two sides, the story side where everything is tuned to be fair, and the prog side which takes the existing content throws in a heap of new mechanics and ups the difficulty majorly in comparison. Every trial and raid has a "story" version and an "extreme/ savage" version using the games terminology. Ultimate raids are purely created as essentially a mythic only available raid. It took Echo 6 months to prog their first ultimate for context after doing wow for so many years.
Its actually a puzzle with tight dps checks for savage and ultimates. It looks easier cos theres no OP gears.@@CaiRobinson
@CaiRobinson Savage Raids are much tougher. Really good groups might take a day or two to clear, but most regular groups prog over weeks.
Ultimate fights are much, much harder. 18-20 min long fights with multiple phases. Even the best players take a couple weeks or more to clear them. Others spend months progging. As mentioned above, Echo spent 6 months on one (though to be fair, they ran out of PTO and had trouble finding replacements for a while).
FFXIV has content for all skill levels.
@@CaiRobinson There is a "normal" mode for both Extremes and Raids, which is generally easy to do with 8 random people, but the race to world first is for the "Savage" and "Ultimate" difficulty fights, which are much more difficult.
The biggest difference to WoW I would say is that Savage fights are designed to be clearable with week 1 gear if you're very good, so usually the best of the best will clear all four bosses within the first 48 hours and other very hardcore groups can clear within the first week.
Ultimates are a whole different beast and often take a week or two for the first clears.
I think this will put pressure on the other teams to do the same so their wins aren't questioned.
World first raiders don’t really care about that at this point. They know that no matter what they do, people who don’t raid will never believe them. The rift between hardcore and casual is so hostile at this point casual assume cheating no matter what
@@TheAsheron I think you discount how much this actually matters to people. Since the fiasco in Endwalkers its been a big issue and this is a good thing all around. its not about the rift between casuals and the elite. This is entertainment for the majority of the people envolved in this one way or the other.
100% this, no more claiming WF and then weeks later it comes out to "nah sorry you were using addons"
@@TheAsheron it's not that they don't care. It's that they don't want (or can't) to put in the effort for entertainment as Echo does it and also, they're all too used to actually cheat, yes.
To think that any of the usual top teams doesn't go around what the game actually allows in any way, shape or form, is naive at the very best.
Is not a matter of existing a rift between casual and hardcore, to even put this as the issue is weird as hell. Casual will watch a proper RWF, if well done and with big entertainment value. Most players don't care, a lot won't even try the hardest content on release, or even touch it at all. Most will simply be glad to watch this content being done by good players.
And it's well known that FF14 lacks a lot of entertainment value on their RWF. Everyone plays on the shadows and then claims a clear. Now, these big productions bring other concerns ofc.
@@TheAsherontbh most casuals don’t care, only a very small percentage of the players care about the rwf.
wholesome interview especially at the end mentioning he watched drama :)
I don't play FF but I am pumped, I hope it works as well as WoW!
"who ever is casting is not gaming" that's the thing, no way it's Arthas or xenos
They will prog 100%
Arthars says he is gonna be casting this tier
He did? Well damn that's something I didn't expect
this tier is going to be interesting @@ftran789
Arthars has said he wants to partner up with Frosty for this savage tier to cast it.
@@ftran789it would be a shame to retire Sasukekw after DSR and TOP
it would be so funny if they had them all bring up task manager to show nothing like what Kindred did in TOP
so something to expect here, most groups will clear the tier on savage, day 1, possibly within a few hours.
i seriously doubt top groups outside of the few that have agreed to this tier will want to stream prog, after years of watch destiny rwf, people love when top streamers don't get it.
Im a bit torn on the announcement myself, I dont really want the ff14 rwf to turn into a mega production thing.
Also this removed Echos blind prog which has been some of the most fun stuff to watch from them. Their unique methods to overcome mechanics have been hilarious.
Not sure why this would remove the other Echo teams blind prog?
They still will. And yeah sure maybe production will go up a bit, but at least it's all streamed. A win in my book tbh.
@@drewmalekith4614 brown and them will be helping and casting neverland, so they will see fights and strats
I WANT this to be a big spectacle thing. Even Destiny 2, who some consider to be on Death's Door, has a better RWF than XIV.
@@Knightsmaren yah they were on deaths door but the most recent race was for their version of an Endwalker esq expansion and Bungie actually made good content (as they only do when they are backs against the wall)
There's no way you're not casting lmao.
big W
Arthars enjoys blind progging way too much to be down to casting this, same for Xenos. Frosty I think will still be doing his mogtalk cast, hard to give something up you've built up so much over the years.
Jordan, Jesse and Alex are safe to assume, yep.
Xeno Cast would be like "This is it, guys...that's the big fkg MAN MODE!"
If Roger is playing, preach will cast. He can’t pass up the opportunity to say Roger’s name over and over.
now its time for the real sweat nerds to SHOW their sweat.
need to get a browser extension to increase volume :)
The guy preach interviewed is a bit rough. He doesn't really know how to answer some questions well.
Edit: he got better in the 2nd half
0% chance xeno or arthars going to cast rwf both will be playing
Arthars confirmed he’s casting for 7.0 savage
@@drewmalekith4614I think he meant with Eden Ultimate. They both love the Ultimate fights too much to give it up and just cast a RWF.
@@Knightsmaren Arthars said in his podcast he would consider casting it if Neverland was fully streaming it. He thinks it would be exciting enough he could give up blind progging and then hardcore prog it after.
Arthars literally said he's sitting out of rwf savage to cast
That last logo is squares logo for sure... so square is doing what blizzard has never done for RWF.
In FFXIV, all hardcore players choose No Echo.
Fluff hype lol
no addons confirmed just becouse its streamed ? lmao oh sweet summerchild ^^ you can hide so much 3rd party stuff that is used..... even when you stream. who thinks that just becouse its streamed its confirmed no 3rd party is just naiv. even arthars knows and tells that to ppl who think that
It's a cool idea... But some JP team that'll never release the footage and addon the hell out of the game will claim WF and that's it. There's a world where Echo's event becomes "the official way to get WF," but that's a social construct. People who don't participate in the event will still max addon in secrecy, and post that they're the first to get the achievements.
What can they do, realistically? Ask Yoshi-P to make the RWF the only place where WF is considered official? Sure, but people still need to care about that. I can already see it: "WoW raiders come in and make the rules now?" Don't underestimate this (XIV) community's ability for toxicity, Preach. Out there, it's not like in your FC.
Vtubers always mask up if they go on camera, shouldn't be a problem if they wanna race.
I might be a little overthinking but i am afraid too much competitiveness could lead to doing things like ( data mining which can be done behind screen ) becomes normal. by the by, this is a very very great news. I hope people don't lead to the wrong way of competition.
It would've been prominent and mandatory already. The only thing that ever change the scene drastically would be if money were to be involved.
@@Knightsmaren that's what i m concerning bro. Echo rwf means production value followed by sponsorships. as soon as the scence becomes bigger, other teams will try to do the same. to get sponsorship, u need to win the race or at least tryhard. This might be far fatched i know but i can see it happening in few years if echo rwf event were successsful.
Hate to break it to you. Pretty much every team in the top 10 for WFR was looking at data mined info for at least the past 4 years.
@@joshuacraies8671 bro. did u read what i write? i said i know. i just dont want it to become more and more normal for everyone eventually like in wow. Yes, every top teams data mined info for the past years but at least they have to do it knowing it is a shameful thing to do for blind prog. My worry is " Yayy, new patch comes out, here the data mined everyone " on every social media.
Data mining already exists and is a standard in 14. I like many others just choose not to engage with it. And the community’s sentiment on despising data mining will likely keep it in the shadow. But with the limited gears that FF14 has and raiding’s staggered release, data mining doesn’t really offer any significant advantages. Most people that I know who even look at the data mined things only do it to look at glamours.
Please no...
toxicity will needlessly rise
"Is the last sponsor squeenix?" Lmao cmon bro do a lil bit of research, not a chance. They would sponsor frosty's stream wayyy before echo since he has been carrying the race scene for the past decade and raised hundreds of thousands for charity.
that's not mutually exclusive
What a great guy to interview, every second he sounded like he didn't want to be there, shortest answers on the planet, why did he want to be interviewed mid stream when he's that shit at it with zero enthusiasm, good on preach trying to salvage that trainwreck
preach litterally said before he got on the call "idk if these guys have any experience being intervied" and then the dude litterally said "its 4am for me rn and ive personally never done an interview like this before" 🤣 he still gave good info even if he didnt sound very animated lol
Boo no. I don't want a wow style race anywhere near my raiding scene.
It's a game not a job. Plz don't try to make ff14 wow.
"My raiding scene" lol who tf are you...Mr Final Fantasy??
can't wait for the racing teams to have to level 5 characters to be competitive since you can't gear for ultimate on multiple jobs and be geared in time. fun times.
You play what you want. Also all jobs are on 1 character. But it doesnt matter what you play, ultimate is all about mechanical execution and what not. Its not like WoW where you only bring certain classes
jobs in the same role share gear... have you ever played this game before?
I’d say it’s more likely everyone would have around two characters, three at best. I doubt many people would be flexing roles.
Two would probably cover enough for role BIS while also leaving an opening to swap to job specific BIS and melds. For previous examples it’d be like tanks direct hit focused vs warriors not, casters crit vs spell speed focused, most jobs wanting specific gcd speeds, etc.
But yeah SE really should update their gearing system at some point. I’d love to never want to use an alt so I can also say that you can play all jobs on one character without their needing to be an asterisk at the end of that statement.
Why speak on things you are obviously clueless about? Lol
Cold take: Vtubers are killing the rwf scene like a cancer and should hide in an irl dungeon if they are scared of racing in front of the public
now you're just trolling
God forbid a vtuber gotta step outside their fake character