Updated dungeon tanking build: www.wowhead.com/classic/talent-calc/rogue/00512312-0053550100550100101-05_116ys56hp66hx76hy86ht96yya6hvb7c3c7apf72a Misplaced a few points there, this one is better.
I put tank runes on and ran all SM wings without this talent tree and it was so fun! (my teammates were awesome as well) but with these talents right im sure itll be even more fun and tanky! thanks!
I've been levelling a fresh rogue from scratch and Cutthroat + Slaughter from the Shadows has been insane fun, feels more builder focussed rather than mutilate which felt more spender focussed. Dip enough into sub to get imp ambush and go in to combat for the sweet sweet imp backstab.
For my rogue tank setup I've actually been using Honor among thieves, carnage, and crimson tempest. With gear the way it is, they build combo points for me. Carnage let's me deal extra damage to bleeding targets, and crimson tempest helps healing me, I just have to wait for energy to regen to spam finishers. This setup is what I go with for group pulls, then go back and forth between blade dance, and crimson tempest, I also went into sub tree for serrated blades and dodging giving me combo points with ghost strike.
Nice video Simon as always!!! What do you thing about improved Ambush/backstab build+ carnaje rune ?! I tested it on Ptr ...and idk somehow it was better than Mutilate by 5% on average!!!😂
Thanks for the quick upload. Have small question though, I am new to WoW and I've been following you and your guides for a while, maybe I missed it somewhere, is CTTC (cut to the chase) now officially worse than carnage?
Current estimates put the Mutilate CTTC setups about 3% behind the Mutilate Carnage setups, so on par with the Saber Slash setups. It may very well turn out to be that in a real raid situation, the simpler CTTC rotation yields higher DPS due to fewer mistakes.
thx for your videos, great to see. I've one question tho, as i couldn't play on PTR the 2 last weeks to test something. As Rogue Tank, we're using Mutilate to generate CP, but with Unfair Advantage it seems we are instead losing CP because of its frequency. Wouldn't be fine to switch to Swords instead of Daggers to grab weapons like Quel Serrar or Tank Sword which provide good stats ? I don't know, I'm just asking. Thx
How far behind Carnage is Cut to the Chase for the Mutilate build? Is CttC good enough to use, or is the difference significant? Edit: Also, is there a reason we aren't taking Opportunity? Does the extra combo generation on crits from Seal Fate just beat out 16% flat damage increase on mutilate hits?
in what order should i go with the talents for backstab lvl'ing (mostly solo questing) ? Opportunity (but do you gain this extra dmg from attacks from the front with the cutthroat rune ?), or go malice to lethality first ? (i allready have lightning reflexes and imp backstab at lvl 23.) (imp ambush is also tempting, but you don't go for that i see?)
The AP from defense past 250 on blade dance looks cool especially with quelserra. I’m also curious if we need to go black smithing with the new shadowflame sword.
They said that all thorium brotherhood BOEs (shadowflame sword comes from upgraded blackguard) will be upgradable with new ember currency that comes from the new eruption event, so thankfully no need for blacksmithing :)
Does it not look like Backstab build is gonna be viable in a raid setting and it's still gonna be Mutilate & Saber Slash with Deadly Brew focus? I was thinking a Backstab build and running the improved Expose Armor for the armor shred poison in offhand would be good. Is Deadly Brew & Envenom damage still too good to justify using anything else in a raid setting? The 3K damage backstab crits I was getting on PTR made me think the Backstab build could be competitive
is envenom still better than playing backstab? been playing envenom but not sure if i should switch. just swapped to rogue main for this phase and missing a couple runes for backstab not sure if its worth it right now to go farm them or just continue to play envenom and gear up in phase 4
why the 2/2 improved sinister strike over 2% dodge for lvling talents? just trying to find out if theres an interaction between SS and the backstab build that i dont know about lol
Focused Attacks and Fan of Knives helps a lot in live strat but where do you see success with blunderbuss? Rogue threat feels awful this phase and blunderbuss is able to keep aggro off of aoe dps for about 0.5 - 1 second for me and that's it.
Just a question maybe someone other than Simon can answer, how come take improved exposed armour on tank spec when rogues have the new armour reducing poison? Is the poison not worth it?
personally i will not be using any poisons. there is no shot i will stop every ~10 minutes to reapply poison to my weapon. dense sharpening stone all the way is my plan
Because you need points in the combat spec to be able to put points down the list further and you don’t wanna put points into dodge so you do sinister strike
Also very good, but not what I would pick for dungeons for sure. Saber's damage doesn't really start going until you stacked 3 sabers on a target, whereas Mutilate pops from the very start. Not gonna be 3 stacking every single trash mob in a dungeon.
I tried this guide for tanking. Fan of knives dont hold any threat and the energy refund is not good in normal levelling/dungeon gear. Its too expensive and does nothing for you.
I must have done something wrong myself. I’ve tested every build and rune variation I could possible have on the PTR. To me single target backstab build Carnage was always pulling a couple hundreds of dps higher then anything else. Granted: most of my testing was done solo with consumes and wbs. No WF/AP buffs from melee group setups.
Looking over you build and discord, all you have done is copy and paste the build from wow head, and may I ask why you use a different build than the one you have posted for your dps build. And why would you not have 5 points in opportunity on your discord build you have put them in seal fate which is pointless if your playing Mutilate ? Most of your videos are ok but you seem to of slacked off tbh pal.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Updated dungeon tanking build: www.wowhead.com/classic/talent-calc/rogue/00512312-0053550100550100101-05_116ys56hp66hx76hy86ht96yya6hvb7c3c7apf72a
Misplaced a few points there, this one is better.
Why can't all WoW videos be this good, great job.
Easily the best channel for SOD rogue content on RUclips.
nah dude thankyou for all your hard work and dedication to roguing. super under rated yt chan
just wanted to say thanks for all your guides, they have been a great help.
thanks again for all your hard work Simon!
Yes missed Simon! Would love a gear guide when you can 👌
I put tank runes on and ran all SM wings without this talent tree and it was so fun! (my teammates were awesome as well) but with these talents right im sure itll be even more fun and tanky! thanks!
While you were farming devilsaur leathers I was here studying the blade
why not both?
Been waiting for this, thanks for your work Simon 🙏
I've been levelling a fresh rogue from scratch and Cutthroat + Slaughter from the Shadows has been insane fun, feels more builder focussed rather than mutilate which felt more spender focussed. Dip enough into sub to get imp ambush and go in to combat for the sweet sweet imp backstab.
cant wait for another phase of simonize vids 😎
why the 2/2 improved sinister strike over 2% dodge for lvling talents?
poisoned knife benefits from imp SS thats why
@@AdamEvans-vv7wz but why use SS if ur just backstabbing ?
Simple and to the point, thank you
Question on the new build: without deadly brew we want to be running the highest level poisons possible right? Deadly poison vs instant?
For my rogue tank setup I've actually been using Honor among thieves, carnage, and crimson tempest. With gear the way it is, they build combo points for me. Carnage let's me deal extra damage to bleeding targets, and crimson tempest helps healing me, I just have to wait for energy to regen to spam finishers. This setup is what I go with for group pulls, then go back and forth between blade dance, and crimson tempest, I also went into sub tree for serrated blades and dodging giving me combo points with ghost strike.
Wondering what is the reasoning behind the 2/2 in sinister strike?
i was wondering the same
Poison knife energy cost reduction
Nice video Simon as always!!!
What do you thing about improved Ambush/backstab build+ carnaje rune ?!
I tested it on Ptr ...and idk somehow it was better than Mutilate by 5% on average!!!😂
Thanks for the quick upload. Have small question though, I am new to WoW and I've been following you and your guides for a while, maybe I missed it somewhere, is CTTC (cut to the chase) now officially worse than carnage?
Current estimates put the Mutilate CTTC setups about 3% behind the Mutilate Carnage setups, so on par with the Saber Slash setups. It may very well turn out to be that in a real raid situation, the simpler CTTC rotation yields higher DPS due to fewer mistakes.
@@SimonizeShowThanks king 👑
Thank you so much for this.
Great video like always. Only negative is the same hat the whole video 😂
Why 2 pts in imp sinister strike if you're running mutilate?
sorry, new here. How carnage bleed effect is applying? You use rapture in your rotation?
Still wondering why 2/2 imp sinister strike? just in case of saber slash tank could be better
so no points in ruthlesness? is it better to have some in ruth if you are solo leveling as well as dungeon levling, or just focus on backstab dps?
any chance you can make a video on rogue tanking specifically?
Hmm, for leveling in the open world, would you say that the new Backstab setup is better than mutilate?
thx for your videos, great to see.
I've one question tho, as i couldn't play on PTR the 2 last weeks to test something.
As Rogue Tank, we're using Mutilate to generate CP, but with Unfair Advantage it seems we are instead losing CP because of its frequency.
Wouldn't be fine to switch to Swords instead of Daggers to grab weapons like Quel Serrar or Tank Sword which provide good stats ? I don't know, I'm just asking. Thx
Ty so much!
How far behind Carnage is Cut to the Chase for the Mutilate build? Is CttC good enough to use, or is the difference significant?
Edit: Also, is there a reason we aren't taking Opportunity? Does the extra combo generation on crits from Seal Fate just beat out 16% flat damage increase on mutilate hits?
in what order should i go with the talents for backstab lvl'ing (mostly solo questing) ?
Opportunity (but do you gain this extra dmg from attacks from the front with the cutthroat rune ?),
or go malice to lethality first ? (i allready have lightning reflexes and imp backstab at lvl 23.)
(imp ambush is also tempting, but you don't go for that i see?)
How bad is the mutilate nerf? Are we still s tier
Can I get some saber slash molten core tips! Great video
The AP from defense past 250 on blade dance looks cool especially with quelserra. I’m also curious if we need to go black smithing with the new shadowflame sword.
They said that all thorium brotherhood BOEs (shadowflame sword comes from upgraded blackguard) will be upgradable with new ember currency that comes from the new eruption event, so thankfully no need for blacksmithing :)
Simon da 🐐 no 🧢
Does it not look like Backstab build is gonna be viable in a raid setting and it's still gonna be Mutilate & Saber Slash with Deadly Brew focus? I was thinking a Backstab build and running the improved Expose Armor for the armor shred poison in offhand would be good. Is Deadly Brew & Envenom damage still too good to justify using anything else in a raid setting? The 3K damage backstab crits I was getting on PTR made me think the Backstab build could be competitive
professions for phase 4? will leatherworking be viable for endgame rogue?
still love 5/31/5 for levelling/dungeon grind
backstab is simming the highest in full bis
Can you make a Pre-bis and bis video pls?
is envenom still better than playing backstab? been playing envenom but not sure if i should switch. just swapped to rogue main for this phase and missing a couple runes for backstab not sure if its worth it right now to go farm them or just continue to play envenom and gear up in phase 4
yay simon time
isnt CT>FoK for tanking?
why the 2/2 improved sinister strike over 2% dodge for lvling talents? just trying to find out if theres an interaction between SS and the backstab build that i dont know about lol
wondering the same
Focused Attacks and Fan of Knives helps a lot in live strat but where do you see success with blunderbuss? Rogue threat feels awful this phase and blunderbuss is able to keep aggro off of aoe dps for about 0.5 - 1 second for me and that's it.
Just a question maybe someone other than Simon can answer, how come take improved exposed armour on tank spec when rogues have the new armour reducing poison? Is the poison not worth it?
it affects the amount of armour the poison reduces by 50%.
@@jamescpalmer Oh Awesome! Thank you very much.
simon is backstab build bad for endgame? is mutilate and saber just do much better?
@@shifterashtongue2684 not the expert here, but the poison damage +envenom for sustained fights way outdamages backstab generally
I really want cutthroat/ambush build to be good. I might play it even if it's 10% behind.
What talents would you run at 60 for this?
What poisons are we supposed to be using while using that leveling build? Double instant poison?
personally i will not be using any poisons. there is no shot i will stop every ~10 minutes to reapply poison to my weapon. dense sharpening stone all the way is my plan
@@SimonizeShow also a macro can help to automatize this process but i got your point
Why put 2 points into sinister strike for your tanking if you go mutilate?
Because you need points in the combat spec to be able to put points down the list further and you don’t wanna put points into dodge so you do sinister strike
@@tylerricker230 id probably put the 2 points into the evasion cd over an ability not being used
which professions should i use to gain max dps?
how is Saber Slash tanking? Thanks for the clear and concise video!
Also very good, but not what I would pick for dungeons for sure. Saber's damage doesn't really start going until you stacked 3 sabers on a target, whereas Mutilate pops from the very start. Not gonna be 3 stacking every single trash mob in a dungeon.
dungeon dps same talent with raid dps ?
I tried this guide for tanking. Fan of knives dont hold any threat and the energy refund is not good in normal levelling/dungeon gear. Its too expensive and does nothing for you.
Any plan on a pvp build?
perplexity for pvp builds, simon is a pve andy
@@666evo666 until an ally pulls out a skinning knife in Un'goro, then the bloodlust takes over
ask me how to easily add 200 attack power to your backstab build
lol why did I hear your name as salmon eyes
I must have done something wrong myself. I’ve tested every build and rune variation I could possible have on the PTR.
To me single target backstab build Carnage was always pulling a couple hundreds of dps higher then anything else.
Granted: most of my testing was done solo with consumes and wbs.
No WF/AP buffs from melee group setups.
With or without Ambush procs?
@@jamescpalmer with
Hi, can't a backstab / ambush spe be good for dps raid/dungeon ? Like the one for leveling
@@sohishirosohoshiro5101 envenom and poisons will way outdamage it
hello Simonize, what about the classic cata content?
first
confirmed first
Looking over you build and discord, all you have done is copy and paste the build from wow head, and may I ask why you use a different build than the one you have posted for your dps build. And why would you not have 5 points in opportunity on your discord build you have put them in seal fate which is pointless if your playing Mutilate ? Most of your videos are ok but you seem to of slacked off tbh pal.
Don't teach these people weak builds bro...
This build is legit very bad compared.
which is strong ?
here king, you dropped this *big_crown.png*
So crimson tempest sucks then or what