An honest ecollar (e-collar, electric, or shock collar) demonstration and discussion
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- Опубликовано: 15 янв 2014
- In this clip, a mid - high/power Dogtra remote training ecollar ( also known as electric or shock collar ) is worn by the trainer in order to demonstrate exactly what an e-collar does. We only use ecollars for low level electric stimulation during training, (higher levels are reserved for intentional negative association formation where life is threatened or welfare significantly compromised) using the lower settings designed to redirect the dogs attention from a potentially harmful behaviour, back on to a known ( taught and understood ) alternative. The collar is used 'IF' and only 'if' it is deemed necessary, but generally very infrequently. If you find that you are using an ecollar for every recall or every negative behaviour, then your training plan is wrong. Do NOT rely on an e-collar as a magic wand - It is not. Reward should outweigh correction MASSIVELY. We accept that with behaviour modification, a collar tap may be necessary in order to facilitate the opportunity to reward an incompatible alternative, but we do not endorse the routine use of stimulation levels higher than stipulated in this clip unless life or immediate safety is reliant upon such intervention. We strongly advise that you ALWAYS seek professional advice before using remote training collars and we are happy (where practicable) to advise if it assists in enhancing the welfare of your dog and improving the relationship you share. Although they are wearing e collars, all of my dogs have undergone an initial conditioning process involving reward. The e-collar is introduced to take the behaviour beyond the level achievable through reward alone, to a far greater degree of proficiency and reliability.
take the lead dog training ltd
www.taketheleadtraining.co.uk 
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Very interesting and informative video.
I've had spaniels for the last eighteen or so years, non working, family pets. My first WCS was the only dog in the house for the first twelve years of his life, came everywhere with me, including my work a self employed kitchen fitter. His recall was always pretty good probably solely due to our bond. I rehomed a nine month old sprocker bitch and had the two together for a year before we sadly lost Ozzy.
The two of them together again were pretty good on recall on our walks through woodland and around other dogs. I introduced a cocker pup about a year after losing Oz because I felt Ruby needed that companionship. Murphy, as we named him, now two years old, is a completely different character! Not particularly food motivated, very high prey drive, he's ten kilos of wilful energy that I only allow off lead in areas that I know he will return from.
Three weeks ago we adopted an English Setter from a rescue in Greece, lovely calm dog that has immediately settled in with the others, but again has very high prey drive, particularly in regard to birds.
I realised that the levels of control and recall that I have at the moment are nowhere near good enough and that has led me to your videos.
I had already started the very basic recall with Nico but your videos have given me a structure to build on with all of the dogs that I am sure we will enjoy working through, with the aim of giving them the most freedom to explore and experience the world around them safely.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience.
Sean.
Excellent demonstration! Thank you.
Hi. I have been using an ecollar on my small border collie mix. I got the beginner/smallest dogtra because it has the lowest level of shock and I found that level 2 is her working level. I have tried all the levels on myself first. I have previous training experience and I love how this collar makes training easy for her to understand. She used to bark obsessively in dogs faces at the dog park/dog beach and with the collar I was able to communicate to her that it was not ok. She quickly figured it out and now normally plays with other dogs. I just worry about people seeing the collar when I film her because some people might freak out and say its dog abuse. Yet I almost never have to use the shock at all anymore..just using the beep/sound function is enough when I work her off leash. She is still a happy dog and shows no distress when wearing the collar.
CreativePetKeeping That'll be the iQ plus then - A cracking little collar! Level 2 is absurdly low on an iQ so you must be doing some great conditioning work there! "What other might think" ...... That's a hurdle I took a long time to get over - I even had my dog wear a bandana over the collar to avoid criticism .... Now, however!!!! ... I am proud to have my dogs show off the true use of remote collars and I actively seek-out the critics so that we might engage in an educational discussion to help them base their opinions on 'what is' over 'what people have said' ..... I'm delighted for you and your dog! Believe in yourself and what you are achieving.
Kasia - PLEASE do a video about E-Collars. I used to be very anti to them but now I understand and I feel like your explanation will be valuable:
Thank you for this video, very informative. Completely destroys the bad stigma around e collars when used responsibly & correctly.
Fantastic info and advice
Excellent. Thank you..
Thanks for the demo
"We create addicted dogs". That's brilliant. Greetings from Spain
+Tesla Nick pure rhetoric! Zero evidence and a misunderstanding of your own actions too!! In order to have R-, from pressure, you require the pressure to remove/avoid - YOU apply that pressure! Every single time you pull the lead (however slight) you introduce an aversive, a discomfort, a pressure. You train daily with punishment, yet lack the understanding to realise it. Beautiful! 😊
First good video ive found on this topic, thank you
While out walking my Aussie off leash he winded and took off only to be attacked by two coyotes-I managed to chase off the coyotes and now I can only walk him on leash-thinking about training him using an e-collar to come back when called so this doesn't happen again -I worry I have no experience in using an e-collar and don't wish to exacerbate the problem but really want him to be able to be walking and running freely -loved watching him and being able to bring him back with just a call most of the time before this occurred-now I don't dare w/o some sort of help being sure I can call him off whatever he's winded
Hi Jamie. Thank you. I have a year old Rhodesian ridgeback mix and he was a stray when I found him. He is loving and sweet to all humans but is very aggressive towards male dogs and has been in two fights already. I have him on the harness and gentle leader and he is good with both until he sees a male dog. Female dogs he just gets excited. I was going to buy the e collar or shock collar but wanted to research first and your video hit home and right always you set me straight. Wonderful training tips. I still believe in the collars but will research thru your videos a bit more to fully understand. Kind regards. Julie
Excellent, excellent articulation and explanation.
Thank you great video and great explanation. This has really helped me learn.
A very well-done video! Thank you!
Why doesn’t the industry rename / rebrand these collars as “tens collars”?
Based on what I’ve seen in this video, it’s no different to what I went through for a back condition
Very good video. I use an ecollar on my dog and get a lot of flak about how it's "inhumane" and maybe I should try it on myself. And I always tell them I have tried it, numerous times on numerous levels lol. Any tool can be used improperly, it gives everyone who uses it properly a tougher time.
It's unfortunate that it brings up such a negative image in many peoples minds. Just keep doing what you know is fair in your training and try not to let anyone else get to you.
Thanks. This video was really helpful and very informative. I've been hesitating to use one but I will try it on myself first as you did. I know something like this would give my dog a lot more freedom.
Superb video. Do your dogs wear e-collars permanently, or can you train them with one, then exercise them without the collar once behaviour patterns have been established?
Excellent demonstration, do you have or know of any reputable video training for the handler as to proper usage and techniques of an E- Collar?
Adam Wilson Larry Krohn has some amazing videos on the introduction and implementation of the e-collar with multiple dogs. Hope this helps
This is incredible, I'm getting one for my dog reactive (not necessarily aggressive but dominant ) Siberian huskys (one is a German shepherd Mix and good offlead just needs a bit of help with recall) and have been looking at videos to help understand them. This really helped
Lol, again clueless! I've seen some very dominant dogs!! And they have plenty of confidence!
Lol! What a stupid comment!
And u haven't proved anything to me or anyone else except That you're a complete moron! A Pawfessor Gage supporter, LOL LOL LOL!
Tesla Nick Right! It's so abominable I try to do anything I can to dissuade people like u who support him!
We had an extremely dominant rehomed Welsh Terrier who would have bitten anyone. With good training we managed to calm that behaviour but it was always there. He was put up for rehome BECAUSE he was dominant.
Nice demonstration, you can tell that he cares about the dogs. Respect for demonstrating it on yourself.
Excelent, thank you!
What a great video! I can only hope (although severely doubt) that some of the "anti e-collar" crowd would watch this with an open mind. He has this on a level 30 which is a MUCH higher level than most are using with their dogs. He can talk perfectly fine during the stimulation. Unless they feel he is superhuman and his pain tolerance is much higher than an average person, how can they watch this and still feel it is abusive when used responsibly at low levels?
Jen R ruclips.net/video/vChTTMZE2Oc/видео.html
Previous “E-Collar” hater here that always criticized and trash talked E-Collars. Now I’m an avid supporter, thanks to this video and others like it.
Incredibly interesting and informative … similar to a TENS machine or a Slendertone (if you are old enough to remember those !) I’m considering whether a remote training device would be suitable to distract my dog from other dogs (this is his only vice) once he sees them he switches off ! Thank you
Why are these collars being outlawed in other countries if they are safe, effective and don't have harmful side effects?
Kathleen Reilly the simple answer to that Kathleen? - Ignorance. A lack of genuine experience and understanding, weighted heavily by emotive bias, though primarily access to public favour. Couple of other points .. consider the ration of countries with permitted use, compared to those which have chosen to ban. Then consider, 'why am I choosing to use the lesser figure to support my position statement?' - The likely conclusion would be 'because my statement is pre-formed in accordance with my preference, and so my bias.' Elevating minority samples to a majority status suggests cognitive dissonance, it's rife everywhere. Look around the globe at countries operating under Sharia law, justifiably lashing women and severely restricting freedoms. Look at what D. Trump proposes for the rights of women and immigration.
It takes more than an act of law to conclude 'justified right and evidenced'.
For every piece of evidence to support, there is a piece to criticise - That's behavioural science. An informed opinion relies on gathering and critically analysing as much of what's known, whilst also gathering as much actual practical experience as possible.
Kathleen Reilly Fear and pestering. Furmommies fear that some group of big bad meany animal abusers are going to go and spend over $100 to abuse a dog, and then they pester their local or national government to get it banned with very little evidence for their concerns. The same concept of breed bans.
Love this!
Where can I learn how to use an e collar for a large gsd car chaser?
Rosemary VanSusteren whereabouts are you?
Jamie penrith Taketheleaddogtraining
We live in the central United States. I saw a few more videos today on chasing. I think I have a much better understanding. I've been using an E collar for a long time. I see now that I have not been using it completely
correctly. However my dog does not seem to have any ill effects.
Thank you for de-mystifying the collars! So many people judge before doing any research whatsoever
Thank you I really appreciated your explanations and directions as well as being able to follow that twitch on your neck. I like you, do not put a collar on my dogs without trying it on me first. I believe this is necessary in order to be sure, very sure what is happening for the dog. Thank you so much God bless
Thank you for the demonstration. It was very useful. I am considering using one as the next step in training with our regular trainer. She pointed her students to this video and another which pointed out the differences in a good quality e-collar vs. a poor quality one. It seemed clear that yours was similar to the good quality one in that video.
It seems likely that the bad reputation is a combination of lack of understanding of how to use the collars for training and a proliferation of poor quality collars that provide more stimulation or more uncomfortable stimulation than is needed.
Looks like you found a quality trainer if she is pointing her students to videos like these to educate themselves before using the collar. Hope your training is going great!
This is an interesting video. I commend him for putting it on his neck and not on his wrist like some people do. The problems I see start with the fact that he is pressing the button himself so he knows when it is going to happen. Also it is one thing for a dog to feel the sensation all by itself. It is another to be trained to do a behavior using the e collar. It just seems like a high tech version of using a choke collar. For instance saying 'sit' while giving a leash pop. Instead, he is hitting a button. They both seem unnecessary to me. If the dog is learning the behavior through classical and operant conditioning, like he said, why bother with the e collar? Just teach the dog to come when you call them or when you whistle. It's a lot cheaper and just as fast.
Joanne Ometz Joanne Ometz ... thank you. ... A choke is a one-trick tool - it's a punishment. An e-collar (I'm assuming you haven't worn and experienced one?) is completely different. Quality e-collars permit R- ... exactly the same principle as halters/harnesses or withholding reward in a free shaping procedure - operating on the same principle - removal/avoidance. E-collars are consequences and causation, aversives and motivators - provided you understand them and utilise them appropriately ... They lend themselves beautifully to Operant and Classical conditioning.
One thing which is absolutely true, is that I am not a dog. What I feel, can never be said to resemble what a dog feels. We a different species, with different sensory interpretations.
I actually have tried an e-collar. To me, it was quite painful, even on a very low setting. And I used a Mini Educator which is a kind preferred by many professionals. Perhaps, like you and me, individual dogs have different pain thresholds. An interesting fact to add to the mix is that dogs' epidermis (top layer of skin) is 3-5 layers thick, while the human epidermis is 10-15 layers thick. On the other hand, human instinct is to express it when we are in pain whereas the dogs' response is to not show pain until it is unbearable. So we will really never know exactly how painful an e-collar is to any individual dog. Personally, I prefer not to inflict discomfort on an animal when there are gentler methods for achieving the same results. Why risk it? And why do people feel it is okay to inflict discomfort on an animal that is unable to tell us just how uncomfortable we are making them? I never spanked my son in order to teach him what I did not want him to do. Since dogs operate on the same level cognitively as a 2-3 year old child, it does not make sense to me to use an e-collar.
Joanne Ometz Joanne Ometz the last comment contains enough debatable material to fill a small book, so I cannot do it justice here.
"Human instinct is to express it when we are in pain, whereas the dog's response is not to express it until it is unbearable". ... without any actual factual evidence to support this statement, it really cannot proceed in a positive direction. Any claim concerning a non human subject, must deal with what is observed. To state that a subject considers a stimulus 'unbearable' is conjecture, since the most we can conclude is that 'In this context, this animal produced this response to this stimulus'. 'Bearability' is guesswork, or observer bias.
You either confirm that this is accurate, or provide a contradiction of your claim, when you write - "An animal is unable to tell us just how uncomfortable we are making them."
All that matters here, is that we affect a beneficial alteration in the existing behaviour of the animal in order to positively influence its future wellbeing - or that of others with which it comes into contact. We must not lose sight of the fact that OUR interpretation of events, is not what matters. It is how the DOG experiences, interprets and adjusts to the new challenges that counts. To the dog, WE are not 'inflicting discomfort' - WE are both a port of safety, a predictor of relevant events, a reliable constant and NEVER responsible for anything but good.
Pain is not to be confused with aversive. It certainly CAN be aversive, though many people derive pleasure from what another considers painful. Aversive is accurate, pain is subjective.
"That which a subject acts so as to remove, prevent or avoid" would be an accurate description of e-collar static pulse. Electronic stimulation is unique. It CAN initiate ALL of the effects of a 'painful' experience, however unlike any other stimulus which might do the same, it is instantly gone as fast as it appeared, leaving no physical watermark, only an 'experience' which the receiver interprets as 'painful' and acts in accordance with that classification.
Child:Canine analogies are flawed, yet their usage is rife. You can TALK to an infant - certainly a 3 year old - you can bypass any need to experience through visualisation. A dog must experience in order to understand and draw conclusions. As a parent, you will use force on a toddler so as to best serve their interests in many situations, despite their thrashing around, tears and vocal protestations. Not indifferent to a human response to pain. You push into a screaming toddler to secure car seats, supermarket trolley seats, pushchair safety or to change a soiled nappy. This will be justified, since we would say that no 'pain' is caused, only physical pressure in order to secure a better outcome. But an observer, seeing the screaming infant kick against your pressure might (by popular logic) infer that you are being unnecessarily cruel. Indeed, what if a safety strap clip were to nip the skin of the wriggling infant as you tried to secure them? You did that. You intentionally caused pain in pursuit of an aim which the subject considers aversive. Do you see what I mean? The spin-off's and 'could do's', the 'what if's' and the 'potentially's' are endless, and by and large of no benefit whatsoever.
A stock farmer puts barbed wire of electric fencing around a field - Why? I never had to cause injury or physical discomfort to my 4 kids in order to keep them safe. There are 'better, kinder' ways. There are 'better' and environmentally 'kinder' ways to travel .. walk ... row a boat or cycle. ... Cars kill and maim millions and yet billions are in use without complaint. Drugs are used and operations performed, where many would argue that homeopathy, spirituality or other, more 'comfortable' options exist.
Efficient and effective are entirely different concepts to lazy, unnecessary or cruel.
I'm afraid I have no time to discuss further. Sadly, life is like that! We all do things so as to remove or avoid negative consequences, and I'm no exception to natural law! 🙂
Jamie, when you have more time you might want to read this article. It sites a research article from the Tufts University School of Veterinary Medicine. In the research article, it says, “Pain medicine as a veterinary specialty is relatively new. As recently
as a decade ago, most veterinarians assumed that animals didn’t feel
pain, or at least experienced it differently than humans. Now all
evidence points to the contrary. Research has shown that animals and
humans have similar neural pathways for the development, conduction and
modulation of pain, making it pretty likely that our pets experience
pain in much same the way we do.”
Personally, with all the new research coming out about dogs, I prefer to err on the side of operant and classical conditioning without adding something that seems more and more likely to cause pain. And really, if you say you would never use an e-collar without operant and classical conditioning, why use the collar at all?
Here is the link to the article:
animalfarmfoundation.blog/2013/04/22/high-pain-tolerance-myth/
It contains a link to the Tufts U. website where you can find research about animals and pain.
Joanne Ometz Operant and Classical conditioning isn't a human advent. It simply IS. It exists independent of anyone's thoughts, preferences or deliberate manipulation of. Law of effect pre-dated Thorndike by millennia .. OC existed way before Skinner put a pigeon in a box ..
What one person 'would rather do' or 'prefers to do' is irrelevant. The only relevant issue is the result.
Of course animals feel pain. Of course they are sentient beings. But pain is relative, and extremely individual. Aversive doesn't equal painful.
Dogs chew stones and break their teeth on them for a pastime without so much as a wince - try it. Cattle rub their necks on barbed wire strands to relieve an itch - try it. Unreceptive mares will jump and buck a stallion in the guts, causing barely a flinch. Terriers will dig through gravel rich dirt without tools and oblivious to injuries. Retrievers will plunge into icy lakes in conditions well below freezing and Malamutes will sleep in sub zero blizzards. Each of these examples and thousands more, OUGHT to constitute 'painful' by our appreciation. Whilst each animal (human and canine) can experience the same stimulus, it must be understood and accepted that we are unique within our own species, breed/culture and as individuals. A static pulse can never be considered inherently 'painful', since only individual interpretation can confirm or deny the assertion. Many dogs will accept a pulse without flinching, at levels which would cause another dog to startle. The most accurate conclusion you can draw, is that, at varying levels, most dogs find certain levels on remote collars to be aversive. Sensations appear to be received in ways to cause animals to respond in accordance with a range of behavioural reactions - from no response, to curiosity, to orientation towards, to irritation, to avoidance, to startle, to freezing, to high startle and preparedness for a perceived injurious or threatening event. That would be accurate. That a non-injurious, localised excitation of the subcutaneous tissues including muscle and nerves, ranging in terms of strength and subject perception, would also be (lay scientifically) accurate. As to 'why would opt to use this over that, where more effective alternatives exist?' - I wouldn't! I'd use the most efficient and effective means to secure the aim, whilst enhancing the bond, securing overall short and long term welfare, and appreciating the beauty of a dog for the wonderful animal it is.
did the same on myself :) What is going to happen now in UK with the new laws, even for trainers and e collars.. that the only positive crusade have pushed through?
Very informative and its a pity you have such crazy comments to answer, ignore them and focus on the good training you are providing. I have a 16 month old lucher/Airedale (yeah couldn't be worse in terms of ability to chase). I found your information very useful, thank you.
Anne Kingston Thank you! I keep telling myself to ignore comments, most people simply 'disable' them, but I think it's only fair to let people have their say. It's tough to think 'whatever' when you're genuinely passionate! Good luck with the training and feel free to message with questions 🙂
Anne, unless you have just got your Lurcher, why on Earth haven't you trained him/her to a decent recall?..We had an ex Traveller Lurcher, about 16 weeks old , So there was a high chance that she would be a chaser, found by dog warden after Travellers had been in the area.
Recall training done from the first night home really helped. It is fun to train a dog, and they generally enjoy it [the human attention] - Shock collars are far from ideal, and too many people buy them because they haven't bothered to train their dog, so when he/she becomes a bolshy ''adolescent'' he/she really takes the p*ss...so they go and buy an e collar. I wish these were only available [if at all] to qualified dog trainers.
I had a pregnant friend use her ''TENS'' machine on me, and it was quite horrible.
@@Oakleaf700 You can never compare a 16 weeks old lurcher by a Galgo who used to chase rabbits for many years. And btw not every lurcher is a chaser!
Thanks. I needed a common sense explanation. If I use one on my 5 month old Brittany so she will ALWAYS come, stay, whoa, down and not just when she wants to. Can I ever get rid of it if I use a whistle in conjunction with it? Does your dog know when the collar is on and act accordingly?
John Hilton no mate, she acts regardless.
The main causes for people getting stuck on collars are:
1) simultaneous conditioning (presenting at the same time as the command)
2) sticking at minimal levels of perceptibility (dog learns to ride stimulation) without advancing to proofing/correction
3) Only putting the collar on when about to work/walk.
4) insufficient foundation work before the collar using
5) over reliance
6) incorrect collar size/weight for the dog
7) permitting non-responding during times and contexts other than those in and for which the dog has been trained.
@@JamiePenrithDogTraining would you explain what simultaneous conditioning and minimal perceptibility are?
My pup is coming along nicely and its amazing how birdy she is. It's truly a testament to good breeding.
Are you saying that I should only put the collar on her when we're working or walking? I think that makes sense but doesn't a bright dog know when the collar is on and misbehave because of it?
I'm going back and watch the video again. I'll probably catch a few things I didn't grasp. TY
u hope because my goal it's to rebegining the conversation with you about the e collard ...
Great to increase the understanding of e collars , and the positive uses ,seems more humane than some of the more traditional methods ,or poor use of leads and collars
Hi Jamie, can you use ecollars to help with SA in a crate... Our frenchie freaks out when you put him in a crate and leave
NO
Appears a lot like a TENS machine. Used in therapy for humans.
Been trying to find out today about using my tracking collar/e collar or whatever this goverment want to call it on my dog c/o this new legislation brought about in by M Gove 27th Aug 2018,I have had my dog to training classes from been a puppy(now she is 3-1/2 yr old,the recall never worked on her in the classes,just ran round the field like a loony.Tried for 1st year every day long 40ft lead calling her ,treat her with chicken when I called her,but she is so sociable and friendly to people and other dogs,that when I went for a walk in woods etc!, if any distraction ,people ,other dogs she would not come back,so I bought a collar ,and it worked within seconds and rewarded her with treat each time she came back,I never have it above a 3,and she comes back c/o just the bleep noise now.I am very disabled and my dog is my companion and best pal,she actually keeps me going because of crippling illnesses I have,I am not in capable of running and trotting backwards and calling her name to come all the time c/o long leadI I rang RCPCA and the lady on phone very demeaning to me about how cruel I was,I have had dogs since I was a young girl(69yrs now)I have never used sticks ,my fist or any other weapon to inflict pain or fear with any dog,my dog for other than using this device for recall,she is the most loving happy dog with me and everyone who knows me and adore my dog.I am a law abiding citizen and now I am scared to use this device to help keep control of her exuberance and petrified she will get killed c/o running off or getting run over with a car and even causing a traffic accident which could result in human fatalities,I only wanted to know if there was any rules and regulations that in cases of disability of owner in that I could continue to use it .I have looked at EMCA for Pet Protection paper on it and it does state that disabled people are able to use device c/o help c/o training but paper from 2015,then one 2017,hoping you maybe able to clarify,what exactly law on this now is as these silly people GOV!!! are lumping good dog owners with the people who use the devices for inflicting constant pain and torment on their pets.Exasperated
I see people do exponentially more harmful things with leashes than you've done with your dog in this video. Owners put standard collards around their dogs' necks and allow them to pull on-leash until they're choking all the way home. Yet no one is demanding we ban leashes just because people don't know how to use them.
"Correction" is not a slimy word that really means "punishment" or "pain" or "discomfort." A correction is something that gets the dog's attention and redirects them to a better behavior ... nothing more. We need to be able to distinguish between these things if we're going to talk about this stuff intelligently.
Perfectly said Hailey!
what is the brand of the product, I might consider getting this
This is a Dogtra 3500NCP. It isn't my first choice (model wise) for pet dog training, since the receivers are relatively large and the stimulation potential is higher than most pet dog training situations require. The brand however, (Dogtra) produce consistently reliable, very high quality remote training collars. Equally, Educator collars (E-collar Tech) are extremely reliable and high quality products, carrying more features than the Dogtra range. This particular collar used in this demonstration, is most suited for training with very high drive dogs; dogs with a strong work ethic, a genetic predisposition towards environmental factors. It isn't really suitable for dogs smaller in size than a Labrador either. I strongly recommend that you seek professional guidance from a trainer with experience which they can demonstrate for you prior to incorporating static pulse collars into your training. It shouldn't cost you much, but the return on your investment will be of far greater benefit to both your dogs and yourself. I know that this advice is echoed by both Dogtra and E-Collar Technologies.
Thanks, I really appreciate it!
Jamie penrith Taketheleaddogtraining x
Seems like a tens unit used for back problems ect.
A lot of e-collars literally use the exact same technology as tens units... Literally, the exact same.
I respect your views but there are other ways to train dogs that aren't potentially so damaging to dogs via ignorant owners. I see a fair few collars on shoots usually more popular on the grouse moors I work on. Ive never observed them being used properly. They are used as a punishment tool. this type of training is big in America I just think it leads to hard dogs
Cait Washbourne absolutely there are other ways; provided you start with a sound baseline and develop correctly. But the raw truth of the matter is that a huge proportion of owners fail at that hurdle. There is a world of difference between training a working gun dog from scratch, since it know nothing else beyond your direct input. But taking a 4 year old Malamute, bull-lurcher, Ridgeback etc; with 2-3 years worth of recall insignificance, owner-irrelevance and prey chase-grab-kill rehearsal and you aren't talking about straight recall conditioning; but existing response modification.
I've seen slip leads used VERY badly .. AND hands ... Hands which a dog ought to trust unreservedly.
Of course I agree, the collar can be misused and there are other approaches in certain situations, which would be more appropriate. However, ignorance and ineptitude on the part of the owner, cannot be tackled through legislation or criticism. Only education and experience can change an individual's mindset.
One well though of gun dog trainer, writes of how he abhors e-collars (albeit around 15-20 years back), because he witnessed a guy 'sit on the transmitter' in error, causing the collar to stimulate the dog for no reason. Yet the same trainer is quite accepting of giving a young dog a physical 'glimpse of hell'. I don't doubt that excessive correction 'could' make a hard dog; I've just never known of it, since I've never followed such a policy. What I would suggest however, is that an owner who is prepared to punish in excess, will punish in excess regardless. I've seen a trainer give a working Springer a physical roughing-up, only to repeat the process again and again in response to the dog displaying appeasement through confusion.Again, that's a matter for education, and I'm wholly in favour of that. Good comment.
I despair of some owners..A lad at college [years ago now] had a Staffie, and the Staffie's daughter..he said the younger Staffy was ''dirty in the house''..
Turned out the bitch crapped herself in terror as he came downstairs in the morning.
He said ''I give her a kicking, but she still craps indoors''.
I pleaded with him to rehome the dog- it was obvious the dog was frightened of him.
Some people really think violence works with dogs. ''Showing appeasement'' while being punished..very upsetting to witness.
He thought the bitch was 'crapping'' to wind him up!...he couldn't believe it when I suggested that she was terrified of the anticipated punishment- and her bowels were controlled by fear, not ''naughtiness''.
Most professional trainers I’ve seen using e collars, never have I seen them use it as a punishment. People may misuse them, just as much as people misuse collar and leash.
Outstanding
Great video! Of course I burst out laughing on the 30 when your shoulder jolted. Sorry I couldn’t help it. I just started using the ecollar on my 6 month old Malinois because she’s killed 3 birds already and the chasing getting worse. It’s becoming dangerous. Plus I love feeding and seeing the birds in my yard. So far the vibrate doesn’t phase her. Neither does the setting on 5. So I’ll use it on myself to see what works
Thank you for the video
A dog doesnt know what it means... you have to teach them what the collar means before you even start to use it to correct any behaviours. Its not a magic button.
@@mattystewart8 She didnt even listen to what Jamie said already in the very first beginning of the video!! The collar by itself means nothing to the dog if the dog has not learned what the collar means: stop it, come here, things like that. There should always(!!) be a command that the dog KNOWS, like: "come' here. And THEN the collar should be used to STRENGTHEN THE COMMAND. I first teached my dog the command by the whistle, when she hears the whistle she KNOWS it means 'come here'. And when she does not listen to the whistle, I use the collar. But I used everything first on the long leash until it was very clear for her. I really can understand that many countries banned the ecollar: because there are too many stupid people who harm their dog with that collar, not using their BRAIN.
I've been watching you tube videos for months about e collar training but now I found out they have been banned in the UK possibly due to positive only trainers and training organizations/clubs.
I'm absolutely gutted especially when the CAN be trained recall and potentially save the dogs life.
Only Banned in Wales, Not in England or Scotland
Speaking of getting it wet, duke ferguson did a video wearing his in a swimming pool.
As for what it feels like. I think it feels like a tens machine. Especially when its turned up high.
5:46
I kind of hate how people think it's okay to just go and buy any kind of 'training' collar thinking they know how to use it just because of a video or two.. I'm wondering how many people do that to be quite honest.. But I can NOT stress how awfully bad it is for someone, anyone, to purchase a collar (prong, slip/choke, remote, etc.) and try training their dogs.. That said assuming they have never used it before and/or have never been taught how to train their dogs or train them with the specific collar. Just as largely as I can't stress, that you should NEVER and I mean EVER. Attempt training your dogs with these unless you have a strong will (basically what I mean is enough to control frustration from progressing into anger while training, as you could overuse the technique and cause damage) and LEGITIMATELY know how to use them.. If you're someone who gets upset or angered easily I can honestly urge you NOT to purchase any kind of special collar/device. Stick to normal collars
+Katarina Duskstar Shouldn't this statement be "If you're someone who gets upset or angered easily..don't own any animals" There was an abuse case in the US recently where a guy filmed his neighbor beat his dog with a wood plank out of anger. If people want to hurt a dog they will ..regardless of what tool they have.
Do you own kitchen knives? Have they knives been used to stab people? Yes. Does that make you more likely to stab a guest that comes in out of anger? No.
You cannot legislate for ignorance. The greatest enemies of ignorance are education and experience.
Katarina Duskstar g
Yes there is! Misinformation, access to the public purse and ignorance. Like so many parliamentary decisions!
Labradors are easy to train. Especially if it's already your dog. C'mon now. Try that in a dog that's NOT yours
Liam Chingon hahahaha!! If ever there were a case of ‘commenting before researching’, this would be it! 😂
@@JamiePenrithDogTraining so have you ever used the collar on that dog before? Imust have misinterpreted
Dude... he’s a dog trainer.
Buddy He is using it on himself, and your still complaining
@@NGrandk9 two years later. Lol I had to re read. I think I miss interpreted the video as I was most likely drinking. 😂🤷
i liked the video, but the diclaimer that he absolutely doesnt agree to buy one to correct behavior was completely and utterly stupid and ignorant! i bet over 90 percent of purchasers buy to train dogs not to do do bad behaviors like not coming when called, barking excessively, chasing cats, cars leaving boundaries etc etc. thats why the SHOCK feature is there for!!!!!
It isn't possible to train anything "NOT" to do something .. The dog MUST do something. An e-collar doesn't 'shock' in the lay sense of the term, it surprises. It can also startle, tickle, scratch, itch, irritate, tap etcetera. The comments to which you refer are aimed at educating prospective purchasers about the potential fall-out of a 'strap - n - zap' mentality. Professionally used, collars form part of a complete programme - They cannot resolve anything in isolation. The inference is akin to saying that a vehicle must be driven at 130mph to get from a-z because that's what the accelerator is there for. You may well achieve what you're after, but the risks are far greater than if you take your time, understand and learn ... You'll be far less likely to screw your car up too. Thank you for your thoughts.
Fine when used responsibly and for that brand of collar but I'm sure different brands produce different levels of shock. Are there industry standards ? I've also watched many videos of people trying these on themselves and screaming in pain and collapsing. The problem with manufacturers making these collars with the option of high levels of shock is that the world is full of idiotic and cruel humans who will use that setting routinely. Trying to educate these people into using these collars responsibly won't work. They don't care. Which is why an increasing number of countries are banning shock collars and why most veterinary associations and humane societies disapprove of their use
Thom Vogan so we bow to ignorance as opposed to restricting, regulating and educating?
By this logic, we ban anything and everything on the grounds of potential for misuse. The motor vehicle is a perfect example. If I were to record a video driving my own vehicle into a wall at 30 mph, would that be sufficient to confirm my accusations that motor vehicles are therefore inherently cruel, barbaric and dangerous? What if I gave the death and injury statistics, caused ‘by motor vehicles’ - even ‘the expensive ones’?
“Fine when used responsibly” fits every single tool, object or instrument in life - from a pencil to an aircraft.
The question is - can the tool be used responsibly to further the interests of welfare? The answer is yes. There is no scientific study ANYWHERE to demonstrate the efficacy of reward-only training in instilling avoidance of an appetitive stimulus in the absence of the handler. There are multiple confirming the efficacy of proportionate, humane e-collar use WITHOUT harm to welfare.
Perhaps ask yourself: “ How many humane societies throughout the world permit the use of no-stun slaughter? How many humane societies around the world allow an animal to slowly bleed to death in agony to appease the indoctrinated ‘demands’ of an unproven deity - to cause immense suffering to millions, justified not by science, but fairytales?“
Questions like these help put things into greater perspective whilst assisting in appreciating the fact that the parliamentary endorsement by no means reflects the greatest wisdom upholding the greatest interests of the greatest number.
You're assuming humans and dogs feel sensations equally which is incorrect
MrSeif1993 of course it is incorrect, or certainly unprovable. Though of course, the same is true of every form of restraint or control measure. Were a human to surge forward in a choke, slip, pinch or 'gentle' leader, the resultant pressure would be highly aversive to the point of physically dangerous, yet dogs will endure such pressures if the competing motivation is sufficiently appetitive, regardless - again and again. A Duck Tolling Retriever will enter lakes in temperatures which would render a naked human's life at risk - simply to retrieve a toy. My own yellow lab has scrambled through barbed wire and hawthorn, of her own free will, simply to satisfy her breed specific, instinctive preferences. The cuts and scratches would've been EXTREMELY aversive to a naked you or I. Yet an e-collar CAN work in completely the opposite manner, causing the dog to perceive, remove and avoid that which most humans would consider 'like pins and needles'. Different animals ... COMPLETELY different animals ... I won't chew stones or hang from tree branches by my teeth either!
e collars are useless to train anything. You must first use the lead and collar. Ecollars enforce already known commands off lead. He must know what is expected with a command first, on lead. Then if he gets a bit deaf off lead, melting the ear wax out will improve his hearing greatly :) Before we had these things we used marbles and a flip to hit them in the flank. Accomplishes the same thing. Let's him know you can remotely reach out and touch him.
The fact that you put on the collar on your neck to compare your skin, nervous system and sympathetic response with a dog is proof you don’t understand what you’re doing.
1. The sympathetic nervous system functions like a gas pedal in a car. It triggers the fight-or-flight response, providing the body with a burst of energy so that it can respond to perceived dangers. The parasympathetic nervous system acts like a brake.
2. The epidermis of a dog is 3-5 cells thick however in humans it is at least 10-15 cells thick.
3. Domestic dogs can experience learned helplessness if they have been in a position where they have no choices.
There are 23 more facts you ignore.
That sucks no need for thst!