Debate continues over the phasing out of special schools | 7.30
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- Опубликовано: 23 окт 2023
- A debate has opened up over the future of special schools following the final report of the Disability Royal Commission.
Among the more than 200 recommendations, the commissioners were split on the issue of segregated education and three recommended that no child should remain in special school after 2051. This story from Nas Campanella and Celina Edmonds.
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My child starting in mainstream preschool suffered from the experience. The preschool teacher couldn’t cope with his issues so she took her spite out on myself and my child until i contacted NSW education department where they had an mediation with the teacher and myself. She cried during the mediation saying she shouldn’t have to put up with my son’s disabilities as she had 30 children to teach other than my son. I paid to put him in a private school for children with disabilities due to no public schools existing for children with disabilities in my area. He didn’t have problems again until the school closed and again went back into the public system. Again he was bullied with teachers pleading with me to keep him home. A compromise with the public school was made to homeschool my son for half of the day to give the teachers a break from him. In closing I wish there was a special school in my area at the time my son was attending school the whole experience for myself and my son was absolutely horrific.
I had exactly the same problem as you when I lived in Sydney. After homeschooling for a few years, my family moved to a remote outback town where there were no special schools for hundreds of kilometres in any direction, which forced the local schools to accommodate special needs into their mainstream systems with special classes, and now my son is in mainstream with all the support he needs and is doing really well there. That's the point they're trying to make. Getting rid of the special schools and redirecting the funding and forcing mainstream to not only accept but properly incorporate special needs into their systems is what they're wanting to do. Just getting rid of the special schools without fixing the mainstream system would be a disaster.
Why can't people understand that blanket rules never work? As highlighted every situation is different and you can't just apply one idea to everyone. This is the very point of special schools.
Also having 30 kids in a class is completely ridiculous. I have trouble with 12 adults so I can't imagine what it's like for the teachers, let alone with special needs kids with custom learning programs.
Spot on 👏
Turns out having more teachers for less students would be great regardless. Blanket rules and large class sizes don't work for "mainstream" kids either and we know that. School has changed a lot, look at how much money text book companies get and how good "ratings" are so important that students need to sit out big tests for their schools scores. I think all students should get more flexible learning because all kids learn at different rates, and making those changes helps all students. And if children with different needs have other challenges we need to add a bit more on top! Education needs more funding, and a shift away from the American model and back to the Australian model.
And we're 'supposed' to be a democracy... This is were THAT led us.
An awful idea. Terrible terrible idea.
I’m horrified at the thought that future children with disabilities won’t have the special learning community environment that my boys have been fortunate to attend, because I cannot see a time that education will ever EVER be properly funded. My boys have benefited specialist education in the early years when they really need it. The disability schools here in Darwin have collaboration with mainstream schools in the form of “Satellite schools.” This is where children with learning disabilities attend preschool and transition at the disability school, and then for those students who are lower on the spectrum of needs (who are more able, but still have a learning disability) move into a satellite class within mainstream primary schools, but still connected to the disability school. They are still in small classrooms of 6 students with one teacher and a teachers aid (3:1 ratio, unlike mainstream school of approx 30:1). The disability school still oversee’s their education right through until year 6 in their satellite classes at the mainstream school. This ensures positive learning outcomes and doesn’t let anyone fall through the cracks. I can see at least this standard being needed in all schools before Government starts closing disability schools altogether. Proper Funding will be key.
We're doing the complete opposite of bringing people together.. We're pushing them apart. We want to single them out. As bad as that seems, no government official will ever admit to that, but read between the lines, that is exactly what is happening..
In all areas, not just schools. Its a shame too. Allot of education people try and teach me, will go right over my head, no matter how you try and explain it.... But i go through what i can in life, which is more important..
Leaning new stuff is always good, but if you just can't expand your knowledge like me, beyond tech and all and everything outside that is limited, then that's how it is... It that bad. would people see you as bad ? Probably, but i don't really care, like as long its a life of some sort.
Diversity and Inclusion shouldn't be about grouping everyone into one mainstream model. Don't they understand that some kids actually can't cope with a mainstream model even if it is adapted and hence that is why they are in special schools? More interactions between special education and mainstream education is vital, but it needs to be in a way that will benefit both. You can't just throw kids with special needs into a mainstream program if they have disabilities that won't cope with that. The special school model will need to be retained even if the two are merged under one roof, there will still need to be a special curriculum and appropriate teachers. Kids who are capable could possibly cope with adapted mainstream but not everyone, retain the special model but find ways to have more positive interaction and time between all students, moving them both under the one roof may work, but diverting teaching and resources towards a fully included mainstream model isn't going to benefit kids with severe intellectual disabilities.
Exactly
I am so shocked that this is even a possibility. I worked at a specialist school for children suffering from trauma.The whole point of the school was to support students who for a variety of reasons, could not attend mainstream schools (as identified by mainstream schools). The work done at the specialist school has been wonderful and often leads to many of the children returning to mainstream schooling - once the child is in a place where they feel safe to do so. The issues dealt with are not able to be handled at any mainstream school I have worked at. There is no chance of that being possible - no matter the money spent. It requires dedicated resources in a separate and safe environment where the work required to help the children (and families) to rebuild and feel safe again, can be done with extreme care and trust/safety. The range of issues at play do not fit nicely into a cookie cutter mould for so-called ideal environments for all children at mainstream schools to meet inclusiveness goals (no matter how well intended). This is utter madness that will hurt the children and families of those who are most vulnerable. The wide breadth of issues being handled at specialist schools of all types, can not be distilled easily and understood by a couple of commissioners - no matter again how well intended their actions may be. Please, stop and think further about these plans.
I imagine what will result is simply a special school by another name. ie 'mainstream' schools will become super-schools with an amalgamation of the local special schools being integrated into a corner of the mainstream school - students with intellectual disabilities, reduced awareness of dangers and tendencies to abscond will need gates and fences - ie a segregated, safe section of the school.
@kbl4758 that's kinda what happen recently to my special school
They put some students who have trouble learning bet capable of mainstream learning still into a mainstream school, but they sometimes come to my school for events.
But I agree I am in the UK, the UK really needs to learn from Australia
I've got a mental disability, (nothing physically wrong visually), but i was put in a education special class at school because i couldn't keep up with mainstream kids and i found things too hard, even trying to learn at my own pace.
Seeing these schools reported today thinking about shutting them down, i'm actually glad i got in when i had the chance for an education.
There is such a wide spectrum of needs here. Applying a blanket ruling that doesnt understand the value of specialist places is misinformed really sad. Inclusion is a great aim but it needs to be approached thoughtfully and specifically to student needs, otherwise students have poorer outcomes. There is a dearth of understanding and experience in teaching students with additional needs in mainstream schools as well as poor resources and difficulties in finding and training support staff. Unfortunately this ruling is going to have some really negative consequences that wont be fully understood until after a number of students have a significantly worse educational experiences.
No thought for the children who would not handle the sensory over load of a 30 kids classroom setting,
For the older children still struggling with toilet training and body safety who can not advocate for themselves to be kept safe ?
Children and young people who are communicative and able to handle the demands of adapted learning will do fine in mainstream settings,
For many of my friends whos children did not do fine this blanket decision will be harmful for the success of their children
Disabled people are being exploited to fix non-disabled peoples prejudice... but what if it doesn't work and the kids bully the Disabled ones 😢
@@mistressofstones I am 54 , from Canada . When I was in school there was always children with mental or physical challenges/disabilities . They were part of society , part of communities and part of our school . Children who are taught to treat people with acceptance , empathy , compassion , understanding , to help others etc become adults with those attributes . Yes there were kids that were bullies but they were just bullies to special needs kids , bullies need to be dealt with regardless of who they bully , there needs to be consequences , they need to be held accountable . All schools have to deal with bullying and make it perfectly clear that it is not accepted or tolerated . The out of control chaos going on in school these days is absolutely ridiculous . Kids who dont do any work , dont finish assignments cant be failed it will hurt their feelings , dont keep score in sports everyone gets a participation trophy , no discipline , no accountability , no consequences, no expectations , that isnt how the world works .
I can see the complexity, as a teacher, don’t forget the importance of having a FULL-TIME aide with students with special needs. As every teacher is already over worked, and dealing with students with behavioral problems, various learning needs, new initiatives and enormous expectations. With this idea of no special schools, every classroom needs more support for the teacher, more planning time allocated, a reduced curriculum as the teacher’s health and wellbeing will continue to be affected. The stress on teachers will mean many will continue to leave the profession.
I found in public school with students with needs we hardly ever saw them as they had quiet areas and seperate classes and I’m sure they had all the resources they need but if we never saw these kids then what’s the point of sending them to public/regular schools
I did a prac with yr 2s in a private religious school which had a girl who couldn’t speak properly and issues with fine and gross motor skills. She probably had the highest cognitive capacity out of the cohort. I was intent on listening to what this girl was explaining to me, I have kids with special needs and am good at tuning in… her teacher whispered in my hear ‘just smile and nod, that’s what we usually do’…bloody disgraceful and no doubt was the reason behind this poor kids behavioural outbursts. The same group a boy with adhd always got in trouble and was kept in most days during recess - his problem was perfectionism, he only needed to be told he could finish his writing without starting from scratch when he made a mistake, he was super proud to show me the most substantive piece of writing he’d ever done. At every turn the teacher was making bad calls for those kids and exasperated their conditions. You cannot expect teacher that can’t keep up with class management of typical kids to meet the standard of care for kids with additional needs - it requires specialisation. And it requires institutions that are capable of safeguarding vulnerable kids whilst not exposing other kids to additional wellbeing or educational risks. Our schools can’t manage vaping or bullying, I have little confidence in the system being able to manage inclusive and safe education.
Many early career teachers leave the profession early already. The pressure on teachers is immense. Closing these special schools means that there will be even more pressure on teachers to cater to an impossibly broad and yet specific range of needs in the classroom. It's just not possible to cater to everyone at every moment, especially when some of these young people have very particular requirements to guarantee their well-being and learning. The reality is also that not all people have the patience and temperament to cater to these needs. It doesn't make them bad people. They just recognise their limitations and choose a place of employment accordingly. Those with the right skills and personality traits to work in these special schools can choose to do so. This way, all students get the support they actually need. By putting every student need in one big basket, you'll only discourage otherwise amazing teachers from even bothering to join or stay in the profession.
never met a parent who chose a special school for their child first? hi, my names Jared, and i chose what was best for my child no questions needed. there is no way he could handle a mainstream school. this is a joke!!
They need to take another good look at the main stream system…… it is HORRENDOUS
It's a shame this was only six minutes. This was the most refreshing take on it. I was spent my Years 1-7 in a special school, and the experience was just dehumanizing. The teachers had no idea how to teach us, nor did they actually want to teach us anything. They didn't think we would actually understand anything, and so just chose to treat us like imbeciles. Being in that environment hindered my development greatly. If it wasn't outside help, and eventually being placed into a mainstream school, I would have fallen through the cracks years ago. I suffer from PTSD as a result of my experience. The years of being abused and humiliated by supposedly trained teachers has left scars that still haunt me, and sadly might not ever heal. There is denialist culture when it comes to special schools. You're not allowed to speak up about what really goes on inside there, or you get shouted down and accused of "putting vulnerable at risk". No one wants to acknowledge how deeply flawed and phoney special school education is. And people like me are often forced to keep our trauma bottle up because we're constantly met with hate. Since the royal commission gave it's recommendations, I have been dismayed by how bias the media has been with their coverage. The majority of the stories have focused on the parents' perspectives, and the narrative has been "The kids will suffer in mainstream schools" and "Won't somebody please think of the teachers!" But none of the media outlets have addressed the countless evidence (including the testimonies shared in the commission) of how special schools have failed us students. Nor have they addressed several years worth of statistics that show special education hinders disabled kids rather than help them. As someone who was mistreated in a special school, it's upsetting to have our experience drowned out by parents and teachers who think they speak for us. To see 7.30 actually have the courage to address the reality is nothing short of a miracle. It's great to finally see a news report address the truth about special schools: They aren't the miracle factories supporters think they are. They don't guarantee success and there are better alternatives if we actually try to change the system. It would be nice if it was a longer story, and went into more depth about the state of special schools, but it's just great to finally see a perspective that isn't a hit piece against those who criticize special schools.
Thanks for sharing mate. I'm glad we have a space we can hear stories and experiences like this.
Hopefully we see some substantive change in the future for Australia's kids.
Good on ya 😊
As an aside. I went to quite a few schools. Every one of them was an inclusive school. I attended one of these classes for about two years in primary. Keep in mind this was a private school. I can't comment on experience about the public system.
Otherwise the core classes were integrated with assistance from a teacher's aide. I don't have a negative word to say about what I saw and experienced. It helped me immensely.
Kids and their families need special schools. Beginning, middle and end. Not possible to give the support in underfunded mainstream schools and definitely not enough support staff to work with children with special needs.
I came from a mainstream school that had students with a wide range of needs, some requiring high levels of care (and that care was provided in class, or if they needed some space, they had spaces to go and experienced teachers to talk to) Sometimes they had big meltdowns, were violent... but meeting them as peers really shaped me as a person, and at the end of the day they were all just people. Some of them were kind, others not so much. And giving schools more resources to deal with different needs helps ALL students.
No it doesn't, the money will never go towards teachers nor special needs training for them to teach one out of 30 students specially. Have you been school? Its survival of the fittest there!
No it doesn't, the money will never go towards teachers nor special needs training for them to teach one out of 30 students specially. Have you been school? Its survival of the fittest there!
I went to a public school in western Sydney who also had kids with a wide range of needs from autism to down syndrome, One child named Dion who had sensory issues and speech problems was bullied to the point he had his tibia and fibula snapped clean in half, another kid, named Daniel wasn't supervised as he left the school gates like he was supposed to be because the liaison was having a cigarette was hit by a car and killed, not to mention all the other instances of name calling (downy, tard, spaz, chair thrower, durr brain, corgy, sped, drooler as a few examples) fruit throwing, imitating with exaggeration etc. I'm glad they helped shaped you as a person, but did you ever wonder what the experience was like for them?
@@wariv7746 I was friends with a lot of them, bullied by others of them, it was quite a small school. They had a lot of one-on-one care with teachers they trusted. Some kids would get overwhelmed and run off and the teachers would have to help them back. I had a big plastic box filled with pencils thrown at my head but we made up afterwards. It was primary school so maybe things were simpler in some ways. They weren't as tall or strong. In high school one of my good friends had anger issues and was bullied into a corner and lashed out and caused bodily harm... but they weren't considered "high needs" (even though they probably were) (in order to get into a private school). If they had space to cool down maybe it would have gone down differently but I don't know for sure.
In short, I do wonder. And I hear stories of them through my mother, some are thriving and others are not. I found out much later in life I have ASD2. And because of the way my school worked I got more help without even knowing it.
Public school teachers are overwhelmed as it is, end result will be they don't get the speciality care and education they vitally need...
Thank you ABC for addressing this! I’m sure people who make blanket rules don’t understand the complexity of needs for some students. How does a gorgeous boy like Joseph thrive in a mainstream high school classroom? My son was miserable in mainstream school. He felt the academic divide keenly and it destroyed his self esteem.
I don't think the teachers in mainstream schools would be able to cope, and the classes are bigger too, at the end of the day, it's about giving more attention to the special kids, the special schools' class size is just smaller, that's what they need.
Hopefully parents have options available to them, whether that is private special education or whatever. It would be a shame for some public servant to make a one size fits all mandatory.
Why can't kids all go to the same school in just in different classes just like everyone else the public shouldn't shunt the disabled out of sight out of mind everyone needs to learn to get along 👏👏👏👏✌️
You cannot replicate all the resources, equipment , allied health professionals and specialised teachers in every mainstream school. The most likely outcome some mainstream schools will become hubs with lots of resources and funding. I have seen inclusion in Canadian schools Ontario. Not enough funding, resources or specialised teachers. It was common for kids especially autistic kids would be put into hallway as the children were disruptive. Th assistant principal would collect and take them to her office and try to occupy them. It was heartbreaking to see.
A terrible idea. Why was there little discussion of students with intellectual and behavioural disabilities and how they would manage to be effectively included in a mainstream classroom? My brother has a profound intellectual disability and him being in a mainstream school would be detrimental to his wellbeing and education. I agree that there should be more interaction between non-disabled/mainstream students with disabled students but blanket ruling such as this is an awful idea that ignores the complexity and nuance of each student and their needs
Easy for the royal commission to say .. u don't know how we go everyday..we deserve what we pay on our tax.. rather giving privileges for politician and corrupt members of the government..
I will never send my son to a mainstream school or pay tax if this goes through!!
This has to be the worst decision and should 100% never happen.
Already, at my last school, the Inclusion Unit was shut down and the special needs students were dumped into the mainstream classes with no supports or resources ... this the outcome of these people's good intentions.
In my opinion, dont completely close all of the special schools, nor just dump everyone into mainstream. Have those in special education float into mainstream. But on a strict case by case standard.
Have special schools partner with mainstream, to best achieve the most likely and realistic goals for all involved.
If this phase out includes funding, updating the physical school, the attitudes of everyone in the school, more teachers/aides and most importantly actual power for the teachers to address bullying. Including problems for them if they dont, this could be great. Had special needs kids in my primary school 3 days a week, special school 2 days a week. I just dont think anything will happen aside from the schools closing. How long did it take to get air con in all the schools? Theres a crisis with boys in my area having no outlet for their aggression and the teachers are stumped how to fix it.
Im worried that this will be implemented badly based on the history of Queensland schools. (I know this is Oz wide but i know nothing about other states school systems).
Not really a good idea. Lots of children benefit and do better in special schools where they can get the guidance and attention they need
They should be kept frankly because I think the students are entitled priority over ideology. Mainstream schools are already poorly designed, run and general outdated. The concept of abolishing or phasing them out does not begin from a position of putting disable people first.
I went to a public primary school. We had a couple of disabled students and they would constantly disrupt the class even with their aides trying to keep them quiet. They should be kept in school where their needs will be met while also not disrupting the learning of others.
If they go down this road it might be a good idea for schools to implement education about disabilities in the curriculum. A buddy system would also be a huge help in assisting people with disabilities to better interact with the mainstream students. This in turn will assist class teachers as well. But at the end of the day it should be about choice and control.
Take it from a parent of two ASD/ADHD kids attending mainstream primary school currently, there was no overhaul of the education system before the integration of students with Autism. They can’t cope with the school environment and the teachers are beyond useless. It’s all about how they aren’t conforming, no additional assistance is provided and not one shit is given. And the bullying is out of control and not punished. I could go on for days about how much of a terrible idea this is.
I don’t have children but I’m a adult with multiple learning disabilities and when I started school the teachers would lock me up in a cupboard because they don’t know how or wanted to teach a child with disabilities the teacher was fired I ended up going to school in a children mental health school that all there was you would think in 2024 things would be different but their not unless you have money to pay for a specialised school even the public school are very different to get in this has to change 😠😤😡🤔🤔
Shock that special needs school will be face out? I work at one of the most challenging special needs school in my area and i think only 5% of them fit in the mainstream. Our level 3 students are with physical disabilities/ nonverbal/ autistic/ 50% of them attack staffs or classmates when they escalated. Everyone has to evacuate when this happen... guess how many times it happens a day? It's a very bad idea to cancel special needs school, I'll say. Best to work in a special needs school for a week, and you'll understand.
the recommendation to phase out special schools by the royal commission was done with the greatest of intent, but is also ignorant as hell... what they should recommend is teaching disabilities as part of mainstream schooling to educate young minds and pre-empt this judgement of differences... big question amongst young school aged children is, how do you teach disability, or any sort of inclusivity discussions about race, gender, disability ect, without inadvertently creating a divide, part of this comes down to assuming a divide will or won't be created by talking about it...
The problem is that if funding is given to the school, mainstream programs will compete for the resources - ultimately leaving disabled children in less advantaged settings than what they would have been.
Well they better have plenty of support staff for the children and the teachers. Also trainings and support for general education teachers.
There seems to be a lot of pros and cons on both sides.
What I find concerning is completely eliminating these types of schools.
REALLY REALLY STUPID TO DO. YOU ARE ONLY HARMING, NOT HELPING ANYONE!!!!!!!
wow My daughter who is 9 has intellectual disabilities goes to special school in the gold coast no other reason to send her to public I was told by her special kindy teachers the special school was best thing for her She wouldn't cope in Mainstream schools. Her school is amazing only small classes 5 to 6 students in each classroom , Also the school was over capacity at one point in time that another area has a new special school which open year or more ago and that's help free up many special needs schools around also less travel time for those to travelled more then 30minutes to school But i do believe every child deserved to be in school even those children who have low needs they deserve to be in mainstream schooling teachers today will never get it i guess most classrooms at mainstream are max 24 students at some schools I've seen anyways i had few special needs in my class back in 90s 1 had a teachers aid aswell we never excluded them If a child does not meet the criteria for a special school but is able to go mainstream with help then why are teachers trying to boot them aside Cant be any worse then the naughty regular Child who is being loud not doing there work
Mulga at school in my Gambier use to have a great set up all were at the same campus. Seperate class room for special needs.
I use to go visit the special needs students often during my breaks
Esa es la Lucy donde van los niños con problemas.
I think it's a great idea to phrase them out as a former student who went to both a special school and primary school I saw the difference between two I met students in primary school that I never met and when I went to high school I was well known everyone was saying hi to me
No it's a terrible idea. Mainstream school for special needs kids is a living nightmare. How the hell are kids with severe neurological disorders supposed to keep up with the rest ot the students? Best way to get your kid bullied and excluded. Your opinion is factually wrong.
Really highlighted what the best of both teams at both ends of the spectrum can do. Seems the hope is that the most scalable solution brings the highest possible average of outcome which is positive.
A normal school will have all sorts of normal students with personality problems, ignored problems and these personalities with clash with the teacher and here comes another super special child that you can't ignore into the class for a teacher set up to teach normal kids that you can simply ignore or discipline. Doesn't sounds fair to me, sounds like cutting money.
Don't segregate kids. Kids with disabilities absolutely be a part of the public school system with the proper supports. It's vital that kids without disabilities learn that people with disabilities can co-exist in society, provided the environment is made accessible.
Teachers that complain about kids with disabilities in their class don't need that student removed. The teacher needs more support.
spoken like a person who doesnt have a special needs child! my boy doesnt go to special school because other kids wont accept him, its the other way round. he is not mentally capable of handling the mainstream environment, and forcing it upon him would create nothing but harm for all of them!
@@ThatGuy-ze5kk There's widespread evidence of sexual and physical abuse of kids with disabilities in "special schools". Kids leave there feeling disempowered, feeling like they are unable to amount to anything.
I'm not saying that "special schools" can just close and the problem will be magically solved. I'm saying that mainstream schools need the appropriate support's and training in place to allow all students. By segregating students, you are teaching them to be segregated from society.
Not to mention, kids with other disabilities are forced into "special schools" even when they aren't disruptive. Kids who are blind/low vision, kids who are deaf/hard of hearing, kids who use wheelchairs - these kids shouldn't be segregated either.
There are already proven ways to make education more accessible. The technology is available. Having this experience, knowledge and systems in place for mainstream schools will be a net positive for public schools.
I trust the royal commission and the thousands of people with disabilities they interviewed. People with disabilities don't want to be segregated.
@@TheMatto128ah yes, because kids with severe neurological problems that don't even have the mental capacity to clean and feed themselves, use the restroom and even talk are clearly capable of choosing if they want regular or special school. This is a terrible idea. They'll get bullied to oblivion and will be more excluded than ever. It will be a living nightmare for them.
If they can choose by themselves which they prefer then let them, but you can't force socially inept kids with severe learning disabilities to be held to the same standards as regular kids and think they'll be included by other kids. It's plainly and factually an immoral and honestly quite a narrow view on a much bigger problem.
And as someone with learning disabilities that went trough hell at school, don't speak on behalf of parents that knows what's right for their child.
I think Joey is a great mate
♻️
Great idea, but it's impractical. It will not benefit anybody. This is where ideas and reality do not add up. It will be to the detriment of all involved. Students, teachers and schools alike.